The Future of Interest-bearing Collateral | DAS London 2025 | Day 2 | Institutional
Summary
USYC Money Market Token: The discussion highlighted the USYC token, a money market token by Circle, which is instantly redeemable into USDC, emphasizing its partnership with Binance and its role in enhancing capital efficiency for trading firms.
Institutional Demand: There is a strong demand for interest-bearing assets as collateral, with institutions seeking solutions that offer capital efficiency, ease of use, and risk mitigation, particularly through off-exchange collateral solutions.
Regulatory Environment: The importance of regulated stablecoins like USDC is increasing, especially in jurisdictions with clear regulatory frameworks, such as Europe under MiCA, which enhances liquidity and adoption in these markets.
Tokenization and Liquidity: The speakers emphasized that tokenization alone does not create liquidity; meaningful use cases and market-making are essential for the success of tokenized real-world assets on trading platforms.
24/7 Collateral Management: The conversation underscored the significance of 24/7 collateral management, highlighting the risks of traditional markets where margin is not updated over weekends, and the advantages of continuous collateral updates in crypto markets.
Binance Platform Improvements: Binance is actively working on improving platform limits, risk controls, and system capacity following recent market volatility, with a commitment to compensating affected users and enhancing overall platform reliability.
Future of Finance on Blockchain: The discussion touched on the integration of traditional finance and crypto, with a focus on privacy, speed, and stablecoin-denominated gas fees as key components for future financial systems on blockchain.
Transcript
Yeah, this is new to us. We're used to we're used to having like a moderator uh helping us with our discussions, but you know, Catherine and I have done this before, so I'm I'm happy to be up here again with you. Yeah, that's fine. Um I think uh one thing I'd like to get out there early, I think a lot of people have questions uh particularly for Katherine about uh what's been going on this last weekend and such. Um we're going to try to address that briefly at the end of this discussion. So, um, you know, if you have questions around that, we'll we will try to get to that. Um, it's on a lot of people's minds, I'm sure. Um, so I guess the first thing I'm wondering is, uh, how many of you guys were at our talk at token? We actually had like both of us on similar panel earlier. Oh, like nobody. That's wild. Um, I think we had more people at that one too. I would have thought so as well. But yeah, it's okay. then u it's fine for us to repeat what we have spoken about in Singapore then all the more all the better it's exactly what I was thinking um so um how many people here are with a protocol wondering couple of protocols um trading firms no trading firms very few couple of trading firms okay and exchanges or like other exchanges or other media okay cool um so a little bit of everything. Um, and a lot of people who are apparently not with anybody. Um, it's fine. Yeah. All right. So, I guess, um, I'm going to start with some kind of easier questions. So, uh, previously we talked a lot about USYC, which was my product. I guess we'll little bit of introduction on that. Uh, for the those who don't know, USYC was um, it is a money market token run by Circle. Uh, it was run by my former company. I used to run a company called Hashnote that produced the USYC money market token. Um, it is instantly redeemable into USDC. Particularly now that we're circle, we can do that at any size you need. So, it's the only money market token that could be instantly redeemed into a stable coin. Um, we recently entered into a partnership with Binance. So, um, I'd love to ask you, you know, uh, we're super happy that you chose to to work with us. So, uh, you know, what what made you choose USYC as your money market token? and what kind of demand are you seeing for that type of product? So to begin with uh there's definitely already a very strong demand uh having a you know interestbearing uh uh asset as uh eligible collateral for uh user to trade on Binance and I do not see a lot of audience here that is you know from I guess from the trading team. However, in general for any trading team, prop firm, what is most important is capital efficiency, right? And so, uh, for a lot of our client, uh, this is something that they have been asking for a long time. Uh, historically, uh, people who trade on Binance, they are able to pledge other non-interest bearing stable coin as collateral on our exchange. Over time, uh, of course, we see more and more demand uh, from our investor uh, to have again an an interestbearing solutions, right? Whether it's for on exchange or for off exchange off exchange uh collateral solution right um some of the most uh important institutional initiative that we have had we have designed and launched is the like of banking triparty for instance um to use as an example when we first launched banking triparty this is you know stem this stem from um the the demand from institutional audience where they want to have a meaningful um mechanics to mitigate their counterparty exchange uh counterparty um risk right and and and again this is especially when it comes to comparing with Trafi whereby you know most trading firm most institutional client they can trade but they don't ever actually put their uh asset uh with a exchange right so this is something that was very very important for many of the institutional client who who were either you know they have been trading with Binance for a long time but want to further scale their operation or for a brand new institutional investor coming from Trafi in order for them to get comfortable trading on our venue. This is a a a must-have setup. When we first launched banking trip, most of our client uh we allowed our client to hold fiat or fiat equivalent with a bank. Uh so really what happened is many of our institutional client are just rolling uh T- billill futures. Um and of course once once you roll uh you obviously have lots of transaction costs uh that that is recurring on a monthly basis right and that's when many of our clients are essentially saying look you know if there is a you know total return uh money market solution that that we are able to offer uh as eligible collateral that will obviously just number one save a lot of hassle and number two again at the same time help them uh achieve optimal capital efficiency right so really from my seat at the very minimum And uh what we have seen from many of our institutional client uh asking for you know something uh like a USYC solution is really you know just the ease of use uh the efficiency um and and basically helping them focus on what they do best which is again trading right and and leave everything else um for a with by leveraging a very efficient instrument. I love to hear that. That's all. Uh it's almost exactly why we produced USYC. Um which I guess we've done this a few times so it's not surprising to me. Um you know I uh I guess for the audience uh I came from a trading background. Uh so I uh used to run systematic options trading for Cumberland or DRW and um capital efficiency was absolutely the thing. So I I love to hear that that is you know what we saw as a need as and also what you guys are seeing. Um and I you know we hear uh at circle as well from um from some of the larger hedge funds particularly like the trad hedge funds all definitely echo exactly what you said like they need their collateral to be off exchange so they're working with some of these off exchange provide pro providers uh you guys use Sefue and if I pronounced that rightfue Sephu Sephu that's always a confusion so uh yeah like you guys use Sephu you guys use um uh folks like Signum which you are happy to take USYC Um and I guess there are other players out there that you guys don't take things like copper and such, right? But um I think uh those are those are really important for trades to be able to do that uh off exchange and also uh it is part for the course in trady that you earn interest on your collateral. Crypto was really the only place where uh people were posting USDC and USDT uh as a non-interest bearing uh money product. Um, and like from my perspective, that was really strange. Um, but that's what that's what Trad is now seeing as well. They're all coming into this market saying like, why do I not earn interest on my collateral? Why do I have to post my collateral to exchange? And I think you know you you guys have very much solved that here. Um what are you seeing in terms of uh so if we if we look at what we're doing in terms of uh circle from a larger perspective and our partnership with Binance um what do you what are you seeing there like what do you um where do you see our part our larger partnership going from here? Yeah. So first of all and and again you know it's been an absolute pleasure working with circle and the team. Um so since the formation of our partnership we have definitely seen a rapid growth when uh in terms of adoption or you know liquidity of USDCbased uh trading pair. Um I think there is al also the macro backdrop right whereby you know the entire world is definitely going into a more regulated uh and with with much more regulatory clarity as well right and much more regulated environment whereby uh a regulated stable coin to be honest is it the importance of it is is really u much higher now versus let's say 18 months ago right and so uh having the partnership with circle and ensure that we have a regulated stable coin available in uh highly regulated jurisdictions such as you know Europe uh where you know Mika and and you know USDC is really at this point the only uh regulated um options available for our investor right if there is no USDC frankly there wouldn't be much liquidity available uh in in in the European market um on top of that obviously given the partnership with circle uh since the beginning of the year we have seen much. So of course you know um there is always uh ongoing growth uh in stable coin as many of our client coming into the ecosystem and activated trading but on in my seat I'm definitely see seeing a more rapid growth versus other stable coin on our platform right more than double um in terms of liquidity uh it is uh very very similar as well so you know uh we definitely see that this will continue to uh improve uh over time as the entire world also follows some of the more um you know ahead of the curve regulator and and and adopt a you know uh more um robust uh framework when it comes to ensuring a regulated option is available and on your side what are you seeing by the way um other part of the world yeah I think it's uh very much the same sort of stuff right like we're we're proud to be uh the most regulated stable coin out there and I think uh what you've mentioned about us being Mika compliant and you know the the shift we've seen in the market for all of the exchanges like particularly in the European area or the Euro zone area uh with the adoption of USDC has been great. Um I wish we had the graphs from last time. So in Singapore we had these graphs up that we got to show you uh the the increase in volume for the USDC pairs um on Binance as well as uh the increase in liquidity. So uh if you haven't checked for a while, I think it's worth taking a look at the USDC pairs now. they are uh as competitive as anybody else at this point. Uh which wasn't necessarily the case like 18 months ago. Um and I think in addition uh with so many different jurisdictions out there now like really pushing toward their own set of regulations, we're seeing um many players come to us and say, "Hey, how do we do this as um as a as a more regulated like every I think a lot of exchanges are now looking to become uh more regulated and more buttoned up as well. Um the other flavors of things we're seeing are uh things like payments networks like circles during their circle payments network. Uh we're seeing a lot of protocols leaning into uh leaning into payments and trade finance. And I think a lot of that stuff is going to want to have a regulated stable coin rail. Um when I look at markets like Turkey uh and Brazil in particular, um we think of Binance as the on-ramp, right? people people who want to get a hold of USDC to do other things like real economic activity all do it through Binance and I think um we expect to continue to see that and we want to continue to support that growth through your channel as well. Um the other thing that we're talking a lot about and you know I'm probably supposed to say it once on this panel too is our new blockchain uh which we're we're several years behind you guys on that right um but I think uh I think it's interesting to see the proliferation of more tradoriented blockchains and in particular there's a lot of noise around privacy that you know I think even Vitalik talked about uh recently and um you know I I actually think that what circle has done with pairing uh privacy along with speed and with a stablecoin denominated gas denominated gas is uh actually exactly what tradi is going to be looking for. So as we move into the future where we have this uh we we can move into a future where tradi and crypto are no longer separated that we're actually just doing finance on chain. I think these are the building blocks that we're really putting together here. Um so as far as uh you know we've we've been talking a lot about other assets coming on chain um and we have a few ideas as to what we would do there but do you have any opinion on like what new assets you might see um coming on chain or coming into Binance. Um so similar to uh you know I think ultimately the ambition is very clear right ultimately you know Binance want to be the whether you call it the crypto version of it or even beyond that the super app uh for you know a one-stop place uh for most people's everyday life right and so that would definitely involve us you know over time gradually expanding to potentially other real world asset uh however one of the most important thing that we always look at is you know historically there has been a lot of uh tokenizationization effort around a variety of real world asset uh nonetheless I think it's very important that you know the particular tokenization need to number one be addressing a painoint right it needs to be solving a painoint you cannot just go about and creating a painoint that you know you just imagine it and think that the rest of the world need to agree to it generally speaking like for instance uh including you know the like of a a money market fund token uh tokenized money market fund. Uh what is being addressed is really you know you're you're helping you know creating more ease of use for institutional users uh to to save the hassle of you know rolling anything and on top of that you know there is there is the possibility of a weekend settlement uh or or weekend transfer of asset which is very very important. Um so again number one real world you know meaningful use case that really meaningfully help and address a painoint as number one and number two uh liquidity right so historically there has been a lot of tokenization effort whereby you know oh people talk about fractional ownership and this is just my personal opinion by the way nonetheless I think for a real world asset to really have a uh you know to really have a sustainable future um on a you know on a trading platform such as oursel uh there needs to be meaningful liquidity as well right so while you know obviously fractional ownership those are all great uh liquidity is at the end of the day you know something that you know if if it's a whether it's an individual investor or for an institutional investor I think this is the one thing that both um both profile investor really cares about a lot uh so you know the way I see it uh the future is we're definitely going to see much more application of uh real world asset. Nonetheless, uh my personal opinion would be you know both boxes need to be ticked uh in order for them to to really succeed uh you know in in in in the in our world today. Yeah. What's your view? Well, exactly the same. I couldn't agree with that more. Like I I constantly tell people that tokenization does not create liquidity. A lot of people seem to think that they get liquidity from tokenization and tokenization does none of that. It's you're putting it on a public database like nobody cares. uh token like liquidity comes from market makers and there being a two-way market where people actually want to buy and sell your product. Uh making a market for or making tokens for what essentially ends up being like time shares right doesn't actually create additional liquidity. Um and I also think your point about uh 24/7 collateral is really important to touch on here. um you know especially for me like because USYC was built as collateral that's important to me but also as far as like risk in a system goes when I look at tried markets the fact that margin is not updated all weekend so you've got three days worth of not re-upping margin to me that's crazy right that means you're you're holding square root of three more risk over the weekend which is wild um and you know I guess that's a that's a good segue into our weekend talk right so um you know what what can you tell us about this weekend like what would you like people to know about um about what's going on there and how you guys are addressing this? So, I must admit uh I I I definitely had a sigh of relief uh just now when there's just one person raising their hand uh being uh from a a trading uh firm background. Uh the past I think it's safe to say that the past weekend has definitely been very tough for uh everyone involved. uh you know for us as an platform operator and for um investor retail or institutional alike possibly uh around the world and I think a few very important things to address uh here right so number one uh it is true that we have definitely you know there are definitely things that Binance could have done better um over the you know macrodriven market event there was a surge of volatility Um during the process, Binance has definitely hit a few of its um of our limit, right, when it comes to uh platform limit and and these are all things that we we uh have already taken a very proactive um measure to try and improve and and and to try and fix. Uh but it is true that Binance uh should have done better and and we definitely need to do better. Um I I think it's you know again similar to a lot of investor uh around the world uh most of us here at Binance has has has been you know uh having sleepless sleepless state every day trying to execute on the right uh comp compensation um uh for our investor around the world. Again, if it's something due to uh the dagging uh the flaw of the system design and also a capacity uh of our a capacity issue of our platform, um Binance is has already uh been issuing compensation and is still working our way through it. Uh we do need to ask for uh investors patience around the world uh as we work through this and we will come out with more announcement uh shortly uh for um again helping just helping the overall industry helping some of the suffered uh retail investor and also more uh tailor um assistance for uh you know heavily impacted institutional investor around the world. Uh so those will all be announced uh shortly as well. Again, you know, we have been working day and night to come up with the right um solutions. That's not for me. That's too bad. But but again, just uh you know, for for uh many anxious investors, if you have been waiting for us, uh please do bear with us. Um the amount and the impacted users involved uh around the world, the number is very large. Uh again, Binance today serve close to 200 million users around the world. Uh so we do know that you know we we should have done better we could have done better and we are absolutely going to work towards that and do better. Uh meanwhile Binance is as a platform we will always make sure that we do the right thing uh for our investor. Uh so again um you know some of those uh compensation that has come out uh and there will be more on the way and we will be coming out with more announcement. Meanwhile, improved risk control, improved system capacity and improved design of um related mechanism are all have are all either under or underway or have already been rolled out. So that's just a few point that I wanted to um use this opportunity uh to to share with the audience. Uh yeah, I appreciate you sharing that with us and you know I I personally think that I see you guys working at it. I think Binance is uh always trying to do the right thing there. Uh personally I think a lot of this came from you know overuse of some other levered protocols and looping and things that not totally in your control. So um you know I I hope things are resolved and like you know really appreciate your time sharing this all with us. No and thank you. Thank you as well. Thank you all.
The Future of Interest-bearing Collateral | DAS London 2025 | Day 2 | Institutional
Summary
Transcript
Yeah, this is new to us. We're used to we're used to having like a moderator uh helping us with our discussions, but you know, Catherine and I have done this before, so I'm I'm happy to be up here again with you. Yeah, that's fine. Um I think uh one thing I'd like to get out there early, I think a lot of people have questions uh particularly for Katherine about uh what's been going on this last weekend and such. Um we're going to try to address that briefly at the end of this discussion. So, um, you know, if you have questions around that, we'll we will try to get to that. Um, it's on a lot of people's minds, I'm sure. Um, so I guess the first thing I'm wondering is, uh, how many of you guys were at our talk at token? We actually had like both of us on similar panel earlier. Oh, like nobody. That's wild. Um, I think we had more people at that one too. I would have thought so as well. But yeah, it's okay. then u it's fine for us to repeat what we have spoken about in Singapore then all the more all the better it's exactly what I was thinking um so um how many people here are with a protocol wondering couple of protocols um trading firms no trading firms very few couple of trading firms okay and exchanges or like other exchanges or other media okay cool um so a little bit of everything. Um, and a lot of people who are apparently not with anybody. Um, it's fine. Yeah. All right. So, I guess, um, I'm going to start with some kind of easier questions. So, uh, previously we talked a lot about USYC, which was my product. I guess we'll little bit of introduction on that. Uh, for the those who don't know, USYC was um, it is a money market token run by Circle. Uh, it was run by my former company. I used to run a company called Hashnote that produced the USYC money market token. Um, it is instantly redeemable into USDC. Particularly now that we're circle, we can do that at any size you need. So, it's the only money market token that could be instantly redeemed into a stable coin. Um, we recently entered into a partnership with Binance. So, um, I'd love to ask you, you know, uh, we're super happy that you chose to to work with us. So, uh, you know, what what made you choose USYC as your money market token? and what kind of demand are you seeing for that type of product? So to begin with uh there's definitely already a very strong demand uh having a you know interestbearing uh uh asset as uh eligible collateral for uh user to trade on Binance and I do not see a lot of audience here that is you know from I guess from the trading team. However, in general for any trading team, prop firm, what is most important is capital efficiency, right? And so, uh, for a lot of our client, uh, this is something that they have been asking for a long time. Uh, historically, uh, people who trade on Binance, they are able to pledge other non-interest bearing stable coin as collateral on our exchange. Over time, uh, of course, we see more and more demand uh, from our investor uh, to have again an an interestbearing solutions, right? Whether it's for on exchange or for off exchange off exchange uh collateral solution right um some of the most uh important institutional initiative that we have had we have designed and launched is the like of banking triparty for instance um to use as an example when we first launched banking triparty this is you know stem this stem from um the the demand from institutional audience where they want to have a meaningful um mechanics to mitigate their counterparty exchange uh counterparty um risk right and and and again this is especially when it comes to comparing with Trafi whereby you know most trading firm most institutional client they can trade but they don't ever actually put their uh asset uh with a exchange right so this is something that was very very important for many of the institutional client who who were either you know they have been trading with Binance for a long time but want to further scale their operation or for a brand new institutional investor coming from Trafi in order for them to get comfortable trading on our venue. This is a a a must-have setup. When we first launched banking trip, most of our client uh we allowed our client to hold fiat or fiat equivalent with a bank. Uh so really what happened is many of our institutional client are just rolling uh T- billill futures. Um and of course once once you roll uh you obviously have lots of transaction costs uh that that is recurring on a monthly basis right and that's when many of our clients are essentially saying look you know if there is a you know total return uh money market solution that that we are able to offer uh as eligible collateral that will obviously just number one save a lot of hassle and number two again at the same time help them uh achieve optimal capital efficiency right so really from my seat at the very minimum And uh what we have seen from many of our institutional client uh asking for you know something uh like a USYC solution is really you know just the ease of use uh the efficiency um and and basically helping them focus on what they do best which is again trading right and and leave everything else um for a with by leveraging a very efficient instrument. I love to hear that. That's all. Uh it's almost exactly why we produced USYC. Um which I guess we've done this a few times so it's not surprising to me. Um you know I uh I guess for the audience uh I came from a trading background. Uh so I uh used to run systematic options trading for Cumberland or DRW and um capital efficiency was absolutely the thing. So I I love to hear that that is you know what we saw as a need as and also what you guys are seeing. Um and I you know we hear uh at circle as well from um from some of the larger hedge funds particularly like the trad hedge funds all definitely echo exactly what you said like they need their collateral to be off exchange so they're working with some of these off exchange provide pro providers uh you guys use Sefue and if I pronounced that rightfue Sephu Sephu that's always a confusion so uh yeah like you guys use Sephu you guys use um uh folks like Signum which you are happy to take USYC Um and I guess there are other players out there that you guys don't take things like copper and such, right? But um I think uh those are those are really important for trades to be able to do that uh off exchange and also uh it is part for the course in trady that you earn interest on your collateral. Crypto was really the only place where uh people were posting USDC and USDT uh as a non-interest bearing uh money product. Um, and like from my perspective, that was really strange. Um, but that's what that's what Trad is now seeing as well. They're all coming into this market saying like, why do I not earn interest on my collateral? Why do I have to post my collateral to exchange? And I think you know you you guys have very much solved that here. Um what are you seeing in terms of uh so if we if we look at what we're doing in terms of uh circle from a larger perspective and our partnership with Binance um what do you what are you seeing there like what do you um where do you see our part our larger partnership going from here? Yeah. So first of all and and again you know it's been an absolute pleasure working with circle and the team. Um so since the formation of our partnership we have definitely seen a rapid growth when uh in terms of adoption or you know liquidity of USDCbased uh trading pair. Um I think there is al also the macro backdrop right whereby you know the entire world is definitely going into a more regulated uh and with with much more regulatory clarity as well right and much more regulated environment whereby uh a regulated stable coin to be honest is it the importance of it is is really u much higher now versus let's say 18 months ago right and so uh having the partnership with circle and ensure that we have a regulated stable coin available in uh highly regulated jurisdictions such as you know Europe uh where you know Mika and and you know USDC is really at this point the only uh regulated um options available for our investor right if there is no USDC frankly there wouldn't be much liquidity available uh in in in the European market um on top of that obviously given the partnership with circle uh since the beginning of the year we have seen much. So of course you know um there is always uh ongoing growth uh in stable coin as many of our client coming into the ecosystem and activated trading but on in my seat I'm definitely see seeing a more rapid growth versus other stable coin on our platform right more than double um in terms of liquidity uh it is uh very very similar as well so you know uh we definitely see that this will continue to uh improve uh over time as the entire world also follows some of the more um you know ahead of the curve regulator and and and adopt a you know uh more um robust uh framework when it comes to ensuring a regulated option is available and on your side what are you seeing by the way um other part of the world yeah I think it's uh very much the same sort of stuff right like we're we're proud to be uh the most regulated stable coin out there and I think uh what you've mentioned about us being Mika compliant and you know the the shift we've seen in the market for all of the exchanges like particularly in the European area or the Euro zone area uh with the adoption of USDC has been great. Um I wish we had the graphs from last time. So in Singapore we had these graphs up that we got to show you uh the the increase in volume for the USDC pairs um on Binance as well as uh the increase in liquidity. So uh if you haven't checked for a while, I think it's worth taking a look at the USDC pairs now. they are uh as competitive as anybody else at this point. Uh which wasn't necessarily the case like 18 months ago. Um and I think in addition uh with so many different jurisdictions out there now like really pushing toward their own set of regulations, we're seeing um many players come to us and say, "Hey, how do we do this as um as a as a more regulated like every I think a lot of exchanges are now looking to become uh more regulated and more buttoned up as well. Um the other flavors of things we're seeing are uh things like payments networks like circles during their circle payments network. Uh we're seeing a lot of protocols leaning into uh leaning into payments and trade finance. And I think a lot of that stuff is going to want to have a regulated stable coin rail. Um when I look at markets like Turkey uh and Brazil in particular, um we think of Binance as the on-ramp, right? people people who want to get a hold of USDC to do other things like real economic activity all do it through Binance and I think um we expect to continue to see that and we want to continue to support that growth through your channel as well. Um the other thing that we're talking a lot about and you know I'm probably supposed to say it once on this panel too is our new blockchain uh which we're we're several years behind you guys on that right um but I think uh I think it's interesting to see the proliferation of more tradoriented blockchains and in particular there's a lot of noise around privacy that you know I think even Vitalik talked about uh recently and um you know I I actually think that what circle has done with pairing uh privacy along with speed and with a stablecoin denominated gas denominated gas is uh actually exactly what tradi is going to be looking for. So as we move into the future where we have this uh we we can move into a future where tradi and crypto are no longer separated that we're actually just doing finance on chain. I think these are the building blocks that we're really putting together here. Um so as far as uh you know we've we've been talking a lot about other assets coming on chain um and we have a few ideas as to what we would do there but do you have any opinion on like what new assets you might see um coming on chain or coming into Binance. Um so similar to uh you know I think ultimately the ambition is very clear right ultimately you know Binance want to be the whether you call it the crypto version of it or even beyond that the super app uh for you know a one-stop place uh for most people's everyday life right and so that would definitely involve us you know over time gradually expanding to potentially other real world asset uh however one of the most important thing that we always look at is you know historically there has been a lot of uh tokenizationization effort around a variety of real world asset uh nonetheless I think it's very important that you know the particular tokenization need to number one be addressing a painoint right it needs to be solving a painoint you cannot just go about and creating a painoint that you know you just imagine it and think that the rest of the world need to agree to it generally speaking like for instance uh including you know the like of a a money market fund token uh tokenized money market fund. Uh what is being addressed is really you know you're you're helping you know creating more ease of use for institutional users uh to to save the hassle of you know rolling anything and on top of that you know there is there is the possibility of a weekend settlement uh or or weekend transfer of asset which is very very important. Um so again number one real world you know meaningful use case that really meaningfully help and address a painoint as number one and number two uh liquidity right so historically there has been a lot of tokenization effort whereby you know oh people talk about fractional ownership and this is just my personal opinion by the way nonetheless I think for a real world asset to really have a uh you know to really have a sustainable future um on a you know on a trading platform such as oursel uh there needs to be meaningful liquidity as well right so while you know obviously fractional ownership those are all great uh liquidity is at the end of the day you know something that you know if if it's a whether it's an individual investor or for an institutional investor I think this is the one thing that both um both profile investor really cares about a lot uh so you know the way I see it uh the future is we're definitely going to see much more application of uh real world asset. Nonetheless, uh my personal opinion would be you know both boxes need to be ticked uh in order for them to to really succeed uh you know in in in in the in our world today. Yeah. What's your view? Well, exactly the same. I couldn't agree with that more. Like I I constantly tell people that tokenization does not create liquidity. A lot of people seem to think that they get liquidity from tokenization and tokenization does none of that. It's you're putting it on a public database like nobody cares. uh token like liquidity comes from market makers and there being a two-way market where people actually want to buy and sell your product. Uh making a market for or making tokens for what essentially ends up being like time shares right doesn't actually create additional liquidity. Um and I also think your point about uh 24/7 collateral is really important to touch on here. um you know especially for me like because USYC was built as collateral that's important to me but also as far as like risk in a system goes when I look at tried markets the fact that margin is not updated all weekend so you've got three days worth of not re-upping margin to me that's crazy right that means you're you're holding square root of three more risk over the weekend which is wild um and you know I guess that's a that's a good segue into our weekend talk right so um you know what what can you tell us about this weekend like what would you like people to know about um about what's going on there and how you guys are addressing this? So, I must admit uh I I I definitely had a sigh of relief uh just now when there's just one person raising their hand uh being uh from a a trading uh firm background. Uh the past I think it's safe to say that the past weekend has definitely been very tough for uh everyone involved. uh you know for us as an platform operator and for um investor retail or institutional alike possibly uh around the world and I think a few very important things to address uh here right so number one uh it is true that we have definitely you know there are definitely things that Binance could have done better um over the you know macrodriven market event there was a surge of volatility Um during the process, Binance has definitely hit a few of its um of our limit, right, when it comes to uh platform limit and and these are all things that we we uh have already taken a very proactive um measure to try and improve and and and to try and fix. Uh but it is true that Binance uh should have done better and and we definitely need to do better. Um I I think it's you know again similar to a lot of investor uh around the world uh most of us here at Binance has has has been you know uh having sleepless sleepless state every day trying to execute on the right uh comp compensation um uh for our investor around the world. Again, if it's something due to uh the dagging uh the flaw of the system design and also a capacity uh of our a capacity issue of our platform, um Binance is has already uh been issuing compensation and is still working our way through it. Uh we do need to ask for uh investors patience around the world uh as we work through this and we will come out with more announcement uh shortly uh for um again helping just helping the overall industry helping some of the suffered uh retail investor and also more uh tailor um assistance for uh you know heavily impacted institutional investor around the world. Uh so those will all be announced uh shortly as well. Again, you know, we have been working day and night to come up with the right um solutions. That's not for me. That's too bad. But but again, just uh you know, for for uh many anxious investors, if you have been waiting for us, uh please do bear with us. Um the amount and the impacted users involved uh around the world, the number is very large. Uh again, Binance today serve close to 200 million users around the world. Uh so we do know that you know we we should have done better we could have done better and we are absolutely going to work towards that and do better. Uh meanwhile Binance is as a platform we will always make sure that we do the right thing uh for our investor. Uh so again um you know some of those uh compensation that has come out uh and there will be more on the way and we will be coming out with more announcement. Meanwhile, improved risk control, improved system capacity and improved design of um related mechanism are all have are all either under or underway or have already been rolled out. So that's just a few point that I wanted to um use this opportunity uh to to share with the audience. Uh yeah, I appreciate you sharing that with us and you know I I personally think that I see you guys working at it. I think Binance is uh always trying to do the right thing there. Uh personally I think a lot of this came from you know overuse of some other levered protocols and looping and things that not totally in your control. So um you know I I hope things are resolved and like you know really appreciate your time sharing this all with us. No and thank you. Thank you as well. Thank you all.