Silver Market Dynamics: The podcast discusses the current state of the silver market, highlighting that silver is at an all-time high in most currencies except the US dollar, with a significant consumption demand from industries like solar panels and electronics.
Supply and Demand Imbalance: There is a notable deficit in silver production versus consumption, with annual consumption at 1.2 billion ounces and production at 850 million ounces, leading to speculation about potential price increases to $300 per ounce.
Investment Opportunities: The conversation emphasizes the potential for silver to outperform gold in the current bull market, driven by increased interest from general investors priced out of gold.
Mining Industry Trends: The podcast highlights the recent performance of mining stocks, noting that silver equities have outperformed junior gold stocks, and discusses the impact of higher metal prices on mining companies' financials.
Strategic Developments: Dolly Varden Silver's CEO discusses the company's strategic moves, including raising capital, expanding land packages, and increasing exploration efforts, supported by the recent rise in silver prices.
Regulatory and Market Challenges: The discussion touches on the challenges of mining in regions like British Columbia, Canada, due to slow permitting processes and the importance of community and governmental support.
Industry Advocacy: There is an ongoing effort to classify silver as a critical mineral, which could provide tax advantages and support for exploration and development, enhancing the industry's growth prospects.
Future Outlook: The podcast concludes with a focus on Dolly Varden Silver's growth ambitions, aiming to become a top 10 silver equity through mergers, acquisitions, and increased production capabilities.
Transcript
I think you'd see silver at a new all-time high in US dollars. It's already there in every other currency. We are consuming more silver than we're producing. I see a situation whereas industry is consuming more for solar panels for the war machine, electronics, electric batteries. I can see us in the future mining 4 one, 3 one, one. And it's why there are some speculators and investors that are calling for $300 silver. [Applause] [Music] We're at the Precious Metal Summit in Beaver Creek, Colorado. This is a very special conference where the cream of the crop, the mining industry gather every year in September. And this September in particular is very special because this is the first time since 2011 that silver has hit $40 an ounce. It happened just last week. So, kicking off our coverage is Sean Kungun, CEO of Dolly Vard and Silver, somebody who's been a regular on my show, who's been calling for higher silver prices. Check out our last interviews linked down below. But, uh, Sean, you've been right. Congratulations and welcome back. >> Thanks for having me, David. Good to see you. >> $40 an ounce hit faster than a lot of people expected. I know a lot of people were calling for $50 an ounce, and that seemed impossible just over a year ago when silver was just trailing$25, $26 an ounce. It's up about, we were just talking offline, it's up about 3540% from $29 an ounce since the beginning of the year. Your stock, Dolly Varden, was up more than 70%. Uh, so a good strong year for silver and better year for miners. Let's just talk about silver first. Sure. Well, look, um, I've been following gold for two decades professionally, and what I saw in recent years was the gold price was hitting record all-time highs in all currencies except for the US dollar if you went back to a few years and then that phenomenon occurred in the US dollar. So, right now, the same can be said for silver in every global in every major currency. Let's take our Canadian dollar for instance. The price of silver is at a new all-time high. It's only in USD that the price hasn't moved beyond the old $50 high. I suspect that's coming. Uh we've got a very very tight market right now. If you look at the uh LBMA, if you look at where inventories have come down to, if you look at the the demand for the for the industrial side of the metal and the monetary demand, um we are in a very vulnerable moment right now. We are 50 million ounces away from a price squeeze. You know, if you look at inventories and if you look at how the product is hedged, there's really if somebody were to take 50 million ounces on delivery, I think you'd see silver at a new all-time high in US dollars. It's already there in every other currency. >> How did that $50 million number come about? >> So, look, I've been tracking inventories on major exchanges. If you look at the LBMA, inventories are going lower and lower and lower and lower. And then if you look at how uh the bullion banks hedge out their positions, it it leaves a net 50 million ounce inventory. So >> talking about above ground stock, >> correct? So if somebody were to come in and and buy 50 million ounces of silver today and call for delivery, I I suspect we'd see a new high in the price. >> Can you just put 50 million ounces into context for us? I mean, what does that mean relative to total global demand for the percentage? >> Yeah, sure. So on an annual basis right now we're consuming about 1.2 billion ounces on an annual basis. We're mining about 850 million ounces. We're recycling another 150. So on an annual basis there's about a 200 million ounce deficit. And that deficit is a is a deficit that we've seen for about the past 5 years. Um, so you know, 50 million ounces in an 850 million ounce market on an annual mine supply basis is significant particularly considering that um we are consuming more silver than we're producing, >> right? >> And so let's just take the 50 million ounces of uh deficit that we're talking about here. Who or what entity potentially could be drawing from that uh demand? Well, I think what you're seeing is um as more generalists come into the space, you know, uh silver historically has been a metal that once gold has put in a big move and we've seen, you know, gold and gold equities really outshine almost every other asset class, as that trickle down occurs and as the generalists come into the space, they're often priced out of gold. You know, high net worth retail investors. uh you know gold is almost unattainable for the average investor whereas silver isn't and so as those speculators and precious metals enthusiasts come into the market they gravitate more to silver and that's why I suspect in this next leg of the bull market like we saw back in many bull markets of 2020 2016 major bull market of 2011 silver dramatically outperformed gold you've watched You said in a recent interview somewhere that silver is rarer than gold. What do you mean by that? >> So, look, I I believe that if if we stopped mining gold, you know, for if for for whatever reason, all the gold we've ever mined, which only fills up two Olympic size swimming pools, vanished, we could function as a world without gold. But we couldn't. It would be highly disruptive if silver was taken out of the equation. And so if you go back to history, there is a 16 to1 silver is 16 times more abundant than gold. But because over this last 5,000 years we've been mining and mining and mining, we're now at a point where we're mining 7 to1. Not the not the natural relationship of 16 to one. So we're mining for every 1 oz of gold we mine, we only mine 7 ounces of silver. And again, the silver is being consumed and because of the price, because you've got a 90 to1 silver to gold ratio, we're not recycling silver in the same manner at the same percentage that we're recycling gold. So what I see is I see a situation whereas industry is consuming more for solar panels for uh for the for the war machine uh for electronics, electric batteries. Um, you know, I I just see us getting to a point where, you know, that silver demand I can see us in the future mining 4:1, 3:1, 1 one. And it's why there are some speculators or investors that are calling for $300 silver. Yes. The market doesn't seem to reflect this sentiment, though. We're talking about 100 to1 for the gold to silver ratio. we're near to 100 to1 even though like you said the mine ratio is near seven or 8:1. What do you make of this big difference here? I think we we've been in a universe where it's been central banks that have been buying gold and really apart from two recent central bank purchases, central banks have not been known to buy silver. So, I think, you know, the central banks have been buying gold. The market really hasn't come in and and caught a bid under silver, which is why I still think we're in the early endings of this gold bull, precious metals bull market. GDX, which is the uh the index that owns the major gold producers, just on Friday of last week, finally got back to its 2011 high. Gold was at less than $1,900 when it hit that 2011 high. Gold today is over $3,500 an ounce. And the stocks have just gotten back to where they were 14 years ago. If you look at GDXJ, which is the junior miners, they still have another 50% to go before they replicate their 2011 high. Um, silver equities have actually done better than the junior golds, but they haven't done as well as the senior golds. Now, historically in bull markets, both silver and silver equities drastically outperform gold and gold equities. GDX has actually not just outperformed the uh the underlying bullion, it's outperformed the S&P this year. In fact, last year when you and I spoke at the Vancouver Resource Investment Conference last January, um actually it was earlier this year, but even earlier this year, the theme was why have the miners not caught up with gold? That was the beginning of this year. Since January, the theme has dramatically shifted. This the narrative has shifted has shifted. And now the question is why have the miners moved so quickly so fast when it was lagging all throughout 2023 and 2024? >> Well, I think the answer is um the best performing stock in the S&P 500 is Pneumont. And so if I'm a portfolio manager, if I'm a fund manager, and I see how well both the gold prices performed, but also the Ignos, the nuance of the world, I have to own them. I have to take my 1% allocation to the commodity complex and I have to increase it to 2% 3%. So when you and I were talking in January or in previous years that trickle down, you know, the big companies like Igno today is earning $300 million of free cash flow a month. >> Yeah. >> So these higher metal prices are impacting the bottom line of the major producers and that's having a trickle down effect. It's having investors come in and chase the sector. It's having the large cos start investing in the junior cos. We're starting to see increased M&A in the space and we're just seeing that trickle down effect. But again, early early days early days in this next move. So the gold price for example, let's just take gold. The gold price has been steadily climbing since the beginning of 2024 to now $3,600 an ounce, which in itself is unprecedented. So just going back to the miners, all throughout 2024, the miners have been down if not flat. And then all of a sudden the GDX is now at $66 a share. It started the year this year at 35. So that's roughly a 90% increase year to date. Not even over the last 12 months. Was there something the industry did this year that attracted capital in 2025 whereas that didn't happen in 2024. Look, I think the market wants to see a pattern. They they don't want to see the anomaly. So once you put together backto backto back quarters, you know, mining is an industry where you're depleting your resources, you have variability because certain parts of your mind may be richer than others. So to have that consistent cash flow, that consistent sustained uh growth also typically historically analysts would use a three-year trailing price when they'd factor in and model the share prices of these co that trailing price has riven risen um you know we're now that the inputs in the models are higher not just for production but also for future reserves. So what's the cycle of the mining industry following a price rise? So first we've got the bullion underlying uh metals rising. Then we've got the uh stock of the uh metal companies rising and then what's next? What do the companies do following the rising of both? >> Good question. Look, if I've I've lived through it for the last 22 years. I've studied history. What I've seen is if I were to look at mining equities, you know, you have the crown jewel of the mining industry, which is the royalty companies that almost work in any environment, bull market, bare market, right? But then when you go down a tier to the large producer category, that's where the market is right now. That category is done very, very well. Now the intermediates if we go back to Q1 the best performing stocks in Q1 were those um growing smaller producer category the emerging producer category now what we're seeing is the developers have caught a bid even the unfunded developers are now no longer trading at 0.1 net asset value they're trading at 02 and so we've just seen a revaluation of the entire sector We've even even actually are seen a trickle down to the advanced explorers and the company with resources. You take Dolly Varden for instance, company that's not in production. Um we've seen our shares rise about 70% this year on the back of our large high-grade resource be revalued in this environment. What does $40 an ounce mean for a company like Dolly Vod and Silver that isn't producing yet? Are you taking this higher share price as an opportunity to raise more capital or are you drilling more right now with your existing cash reserves? Are you doing nothing so far? Are you dependent on the price cycle at all? Like what does this mean for you? Good, good question. So look, um I look at uh $25 silver as a marker where most of the industry is not incentivized to develop or explore $25. And that's and we stayed below that price level. If you go back to April of this year, we were there for about a decade. So in that environment, we had to be aggressive and bold to go out and build a business in a time where we were in a depression. Now that we've poked our head through 25, um, you know, it's an environment where our cost of capital is lower, right? So, we went out and we raised money, uh, at the highest price we've ever raised it. We've used our revaluation and our shares to go and make accretive acquisitions. So, we're getting bigger. We've increased our land package by six00%. We've gone from two pass producing mines to five. Um, raising money. you started the most aggressive drill program in the company's history. We've got five rigs turning. We're doing a 55,000 meter drill program. And what that's translated into was last uh Tuesday we put out a drill hole, 1,422 g of silver over 21 m. It's the best drill hole in the company's history. So, you know, because we're in an environment where we can raise more money, we could take more shots on goal. we're having more success. Yeah. The Golden Triangle is located in British Columbia, Canada. >> Correct. It's in a relatively safe jurisdiction. Um, it's surrounded by good infrastructure. However, uh, development in Canada has been slow. According to some complaints from investors, uh, prospecting has been slow, zoning as well as, um, rights to land packages. That process has just been slower than investors would have liked. Do you agree? Um I I agree with the fact that >> permitting as well. >> Yeah, I agree with like you know investors, you know, we're in a uh an instant gratification world, so investors want it yesterday. So I agree with you, but the reality is um BC and again it's taking a look at like Canada or British Columbia and talking about these big areas, it's really regional. And so when I when I think of the golden triangle, I think about the indigenous communities like the Tall Tan and the Nishka who want industrial projects. Um when I think of uh the the per the permitting in British Columbia, we had the Artemis mine which is uh propelled uh with the Blackwater mine which has propelled Artemis um to a 67 billion valuation. That was a mine that was permitted, that was brought in on time, on budget. Uh, Osco Development's Caribou project was given the green light. Uh, SK Creek, uh, the Skina project is being advanced. So, BC is advancing projects and but it's it's it's all regional. Does the community want it? Does the infrastructure support it? And uh, so we've been very happy. The government has turned around our permits in a timely manner. As long as you're respectful to water and the indigenous communities, you get your permits. >> Two years ago on my show, you told me uh in my first interview with you actually is that the risk of silver in the future is that it could be mine into extinction. In other words, there isn't enough to service rising demand. The logical solution is just to increase the output of the mining um production. We can't do that just right just like that. We can't just turn on a switch and increase production. Or can we? We can't. No. And the problem with silver is only one out of every 4 ounces comes from a primary mine. So in order to increase production, you have to go to the lead mines, the zinc mines, the copper mines, the gold mines. And so you'd have to incentive those poly metallic producers to get more silver. When you focus on the primary silver mines, they're often in jurisdictions that are not favorable. They're often in projects that are incredibly deep, need a lot of capex. Um the the permitting timelines are are long. Uh we're in a situation right now where in Mexico, the world's number one silver producing nation, where 70% of silver comes from open pit projects, the Mexican government has not been handing out new open pit permits. So, if you think about the already uh tight market we're in where we're seeing 200 to 250 million ounce annual deficits and then factor in some of these political and social changes and and more stringent permitting timelines, I don't see the outlook for silver in the future getting any better. Hence why I'm so bullish on the price appreciating. Is the silver industry companies and executives like yourself doing anything to lobby the government to make changes? >> Yeah, absolutely. There we've got some pioneers in the space like uh First Majestic and Keith Newire that is lobbying both the Canadian and US administrations to make silver a critical mineral. Um so we are collectively working as a new >> What does that mean functionally when silver is labeled a critical mineral? What changes can be made? >> It depends what stage your company is. If I take my company for instance, um we can leverage tax incentives. So we can minimize dilution and we could take investment dollars and and stretch them if we got those uh tax advantageous treatments. If silver was treated like copper, um you know, for every dollar I raise, I could potentially put $1.5 in the ground. So it's a way to minimize dilution, maximize exploration and development and it's it's simply by reclassifying the metal critically. >> Actually Dolly Vardarden recently listed on the uh New York Stock Exchange. So you're opening yourself up to US capital markets. What are you preparing for? >> What am I preparing for? >> Yeah, look um it was something that I I debated with my board for many years before we made the decision. Um, you know, there's things to think about. There's a higher cost of legal, accounting, uh, you know, the liabilities go up. So, it wasn't something we didn't do without heavy debate. But my thinking was over 93% of North American capital is concentrated into the US. I spend a lot of time, I'm, you know, here we are in Colorado. I spend a lot of time in the US talking to US investors. They cannot buy the Canadian listing companies. They need NASDAQ and nicely listed coast. So, we've opened ourselves up to the biggest market in the world at a time where precious metals are irrelevant and silver and gold are breaking out. So, what I hope to achieve is look, if I'm a US investor on the New York Stock Exchange, there are 10 ways to play silver. Dolly Varden is one of those 10 ways. >> Yes. And then I guess with the additional exposure and presumably capital, does that expedite your timeline at all for >> absolutely >> drilling exploration? Look, the name of the game in the stock market is liquidity. >> Yeah. >> Right. Um we're see we've seen our liquidity dramatically increase. Uh yesterday was a day when we traded uh a million shares in the US. That's $4 billion US. Well, if you compare compare that to the Canadian listing, we did uh maybe $1.5 Canadian dollars. So already we're seeing volume and we're seeing, you know, you know, the market gravitate to that NYC listing, ETF inclusion, index inclusion, you know, that liquidity all helps. We're in a universe right now, David, where over 50% of money is passive, right? we are now able to absorb that passive money. >> So you are uh opening yourself up to the potential of being uh majority shareholder uh take over by let's say a pension fund or an ETF or let's say basically your shareholder ownership structure that would that change dramatically to the institutional side? >> Well, we're already before listing on the New York Stock Exchange, we were already 50% institutionally held. Uh we're starting to see the ETF and the index uh percentages tick up. Uh we've already got two corporates that own 26%. Eric brought at 10. What I'd like to see is our 13% that is in the hands of the public increase as well. We want to get exposure to family offices, high net worth US investors and um it's important that we grow our shareholder base. one major milestone from Dolly Varden over the next quarter that we should be watching for. >> Look, it's all about growth. What I I would love to come back on your program in the future. >> Yeah. >> And bring you a company that is no longer just an advanced explorer to bring in an element of production, a pipeline of development, exploration, and a portfolio of marketable securities. The way the great companies were built in our sector was through mergers and acquisitions and through drilling. We've done five M&A transactions in the last 5 years. It's time to be more bold, more acquisitive and uh you know we it is my goal to have Dolly become a top 10 silver equity and we are very close to realizing that vision. >> Okay. Well, the silver price is definitely in your favor. Good luck Sean. We'll speak again very soon. Thank you for coming on. Thank you so much, David. >> Follow Dolly Varden Silver links down below and check out Sean's past interviews with me. Also links down below. Take care, Sean. >> Thank you.
Historic Silver Squeeze Warning: $300 Price Next? | Shawn Khunkhun
Summary
Transcript
I think you'd see silver at a new all-time high in US dollars. It's already there in every other currency. We are consuming more silver than we're producing. I see a situation whereas industry is consuming more for solar panels for the war machine, electronics, electric batteries. I can see us in the future mining 4 one, 3 one, one. And it's why there are some speculators and investors that are calling for $300 silver. [Applause] [Music] We're at the Precious Metal Summit in Beaver Creek, Colorado. This is a very special conference where the cream of the crop, the mining industry gather every year in September. And this September in particular is very special because this is the first time since 2011 that silver has hit $40 an ounce. It happened just last week. So, kicking off our coverage is Sean Kungun, CEO of Dolly Vard and Silver, somebody who's been a regular on my show, who's been calling for higher silver prices. Check out our last interviews linked down below. But, uh, Sean, you've been right. Congratulations and welcome back. >> Thanks for having me, David. Good to see you. >> $40 an ounce hit faster than a lot of people expected. I know a lot of people were calling for $50 an ounce, and that seemed impossible just over a year ago when silver was just trailing$25, $26 an ounce. It's up about, we were just talking offline, it's up about 3540% from $29 an ounce since the beginning of the year. Your stock, Dolly Varden, was up more than 70%. Uh, so a good strong year for silver and better year for miners. Let's just talk about silver first. Sure. Well, look, um, I've been following gold for two decades professionally, and what I saw in recent years was the gold price was hitting record all-time highs in all currencies except for the US dollar if you went back to a few years and then that phenomenon occurred in the US dollar. So, right now, the same can be said for silver in every global in every major currency. Let's take our Canadian dollar for instance. The price of silver is at a new all-time high. It's only in USD that the price hasn't moved beyond the old $50 high. I suspect that's coming. Uh we've got a very very tight market right now. If you look at the uh LBMA, if you look at where inventories have come down to, if you look at the the demand for the for the industrial side of the metal and the monetary demand, um we are in a very vulnerable moment right now. We are 50 million ounces away from a price squeeze. You know, if you look at inventories and if you look at how the product is hedged, there's really if somebody were to take 50 million ounces on delivery, I think you'd see silver at a new all-time high in US dollars. It's already there in every other currency. >> How did that $50 million number come about? >> So, look, I've been tracking inventories on major exchanges. If you look at the LBMA, inventories are going lower and lower and lower and lower. And then if you look at how uh the bullion banks hedge out their positions, it it leaves a net 50 million ounce inventory. So >> talking about above ground stock, >> correct? So if somebody were to come in and and buy 50 million ounces of silver today and call for delivery, I I suspect we'd see a new high in the price. >> Can you just put 50 million ounces into context for us? I mean, what does that mean relative to total global demand for the percentage? >> Yeah, sure. So on an annual basis right now we're consuming about 1.2 billion ounces on an annual basis. We're mining about 850 million ounces. We're recycling another 150. So on an annual basis there's about a 200 million ounce deficit. And that deficit is a is a deficit that we've seen for about the past 5 years. Um, so you know, 50 million ounces in an 850 million ounce market on an annual mine supply basis is significant particularly considering that um we are consuming more silver than we're producing, >> right? >> And so let's just take the 50 million ounces of uh deficit that we're talking about here. Who or what entity potentially could be drawing from that uh demand? Well, I think what you're seeing is um as more generalists come into the space, you know, uh silver historically has been a metal that once gold has put in a big move and we've seen, you know, gold and gold equities really outshine almost every other asset class, as that trickle down occurs and as the generalists come into the space, they're often priced out of gold. You know, high net worth retail investors. uh you know gold is almost unattainable for the average investor whereas silver isn't and so as those speculators and precious metals enthusiasts come into the market they gravitate more to silver and that's why I suspect in this next leg of the bull market like we saw back in many bull markets of 2020 2016 major bull market of 2011 silver dramatically outperformed gold you've watched You said in a recent interview somewhere that silver is rarer than gold. What do you mean by that? >> So, look, I I believe that if if we stopped mining gold, you know, for if for for whatever reason, all the gold we've ever mined, which only fills up two Olympic size swimming pools, vanished, we could function as a world without gold. But we couldn't. It would be highly disruptive if silver was taken out of the equation. And so if you go back to history, there is a 16 to1 silver is 16 times more abundant than gold. But because over this last 5,000 years we've been mining and mining and mining, we're now at a point where we're mining 7 to1. Not the not the natural relationship of 16 to one. So we're mining for every 1 oz of gold we mine, we only mine 7 ounces of silver. And again, the silver is being consumed and because of the price, because you've got a 90 to1 silver to gold ratio, we're not recycling silver in the same manner at the same percentage that we're recycling gold. So what I see is I see a situation whereas industry is consuming more for solar panels for uh for the for the war machine uh for electronics, electric batteries. Um, you know, I I just see us getting to a point where, you know, that silver demand I can see us in the future mining 4:1, 3:1, 1 one. And it's why there are some speculators or investors that are calling for $300 silver. Yes. The market doesn't seem to reflect this sentiment, though. We're talking about 100 to1 for the gold to silver ratio. we're near to 100 to1 even though like you said the mine ratio is near seven or 8:1. What do you make of this big difference here? I think we we've been in a universe where it's been central banks that have been buying gold and really apart from two recent central bank purchases, central banks have not been known to buy silver. So, I think, you know, the central banks have been buying gold. The market really hasn't come in and and caught a bid under silver, which is why I still think we're in the early endings of this gold bull, precious metals bull market. GDX, which is the uh the index that owns the major gold producers, just on Friday of last week, finally got back to its 2011 high. Gold was at less than $1,900 when it hit that 2011 high. Gold today is over $3,500 an ounce. And the stocks have just gotten back to where they were 14 years ago. If you look at GDXJ, which is the junior miners, they still have another 50% to go before they replicate their 2011 high. Um, silver equities have actually done better than the junior golds, but they haven't done as well as the senior golds. Now, historically in bull markets, both silver and silver equities drastically outperform gold and gold equities. GDX has actually not just outperformed the uh the underlying bullion, it's outperformed the S&P this year. In fact, last year when you and I spoke at the Vancouver Resource Investment Conference last January, um actually it was earlier this year, but even earlier this year, the theme was why have the miners not caught up with gold? That was the beginning of this year. Since January, the theme has dramatically shifted. This the narrative has shifted has shifted. And now the question is why have the miners moved so quickly so fast when it was lagging all throughout 2023 and 2024? >> Well, I think the answer is um the best performing stock in the S&P 500 is Pneumont. And so if I'm a portfolio manager, if I'm a fund manager, and I see how well both the gold prices performed, but also the Ignos, the nuance of the world, I have to own them. I have to take my 1% allocation to the commodity complex and I have to increase it to 2% 3%. So when you and I were talking in January or in previous years that trickle down, you know, the big companies like Igno today is earning $300 million of free cash flow a month. >> Yeah. >> So these higher metal prices are impacting the bottom line of the major producers and that's having a trickle down effect. It's having investors come in and chase the sector. It's having the large cos start investing in the junior cos. We're starting to see increased M&A in the space and we're just seeing that trickle down effect. But again, early early days early days in this next move. So the gold price for example, let's just take gold. The gold price has been steadily climbing since the beginning of 2024 to now $3,600 an ounce, which in itself is unprecedented. So just going back to the miners, all throughout 2024, the miners have been down if not flat. And then all of a sudden the GDX is now at $66 a share. It started the year this year at 35. So that's roughly a 90% increase year to date. Not even over the last 12 months. Was there something the industry did this year that attracted capital in 2025 whereas that didn't happen in 2024. Look, I think the market wants to see a pattern. They they don't want to see the anomaly. So once you put together backto backto back quarters, you know, mining is an industry where you're depleting your resources, you have variability because certain parts of your mind may be richer than others. So to have that consistent cash flow, that consistent sustained uh growth also typically historically analysts would use a three-year trailing price when they'd factor in and model the share prices of these co that trailing price has riven risen um you know we're now that the inputs in the models are higher not just for production but also for future reserves. So what's the cycle of the mining industry following a price rise? So first we've got the bullion underlying uh metals rising. Then we've got the uh stock of the uh metal companies rising and then what's next? What do the companies do following the rising of both? >> Good question. Look, if I've I've lived through it for the last 22 years. I've studied history. What I've seen is if I were to look at mining equities, you know, you have the crown jewel of the mining industry, which is the royalty companies that almost work in any environment, bull market, bare market, right? But then when you go down a tier to the large producer category, that's where the market is right now. That category is done very, very well. Now the intermediates if we go back to Q1 the best performing stocks in Q1 were those um growing smaller producer category the emerging producer category now what we're seeing is the developers have caught a bid even the unfunded developers are now no longer trading at 0.1 net asset value they're trading at 02 and so we've just seen a revaluation of the entire sector We've even even actually are seen a trickle down to the advanced explorers and the company with resources. You take Dolly Varden for instance, company that's not in production. Um we've seen our shares rise about 70% this year on the back of our large high-grade resource be revalued in this environment. What does $40 an ounce mean for a company like Dolly Vod and Silver that isn't producing yet? Are you taking this higher share price as an opportunity to raise more capital or are you drilling more right now with your existing cash reserves? Are you doing nothing so far? Are you dependent on the price cycle at all? Like what does this mean for you? Good, good question. So look, um I look at uh $25 silver as a marker where most of the industry is not incentivized to develop or explore $25. And that's and we stayed below that price level. If you go back to April of this year, we were there for about a decade. So in that environment, we had to be aggressive and bold to go out and build a business in a time where we were in a depression. Now that we've poked our head through 25, um, you know, it's an environment where our cost of capital is lower, right? So, we went out and we raised money, uh, at the highest price we've ever raised it. We've used our revaluation and our shares to go and make accretive acquisitions. So, we're getting bigger. We've increased our land package by six00%. We've gone from two pass producing mines to five. Um, raising money. you started the most aggressive drill program in the company's history. We've got five rigs turning. We're doing a 55,000 meter drill program. And what that's translated into was last uh Tuesday we put out a drill hole, 1,422 g of silver over 21 m. It's the best drill hole in the company's history. So, you know, because we're in an environment where we can raise more money, we could take more shots on goal. we're having more success. Yeah. The Golden Triangle is located in British Columbia, Canada. >> Correct. It's in a relatively safe jurisdiction. Um, it's surrounded by good infrastructure. However, uh, development in Canada has been slow. According to some complaints from investors, uh, prospecting has been slow, zoning as well as, um, rights to land packages. That process has just been slower than investors would have liked. Do you agree? Um I I agree with the fact that >> permitting as well. >> Yeah, I agree with like you know investors, you know, we're in a uh an instant gratification world, so investors want it yesterday. So I agree with you, but the reality is um BC and again it's taking a look at like Canada or British Columbia and talking about these big areas, it's really regional. And so when I when I think of the golden triangle, I think about the indigenous communities like the Tall Tan and the Nishka who want industrial projects. Um when I think of uh the the per the permitting in British Columbia, we had the Artemis mine which is uh propelled uh with the Blackwater mine which has propelled Artemis um to a 67 billion valuation. That was a mine that was permitted, that was brought in on time, on budget. Uh, Osco Development's Caribou project was given the green light. Uh, SK Creek, uh, the Skina project is being advanced. So, BC is advancing projects and but it's it's it's all regional. Does the community want it? Does the infrastructure support it? And uh, so we've been very happy. The government has turned around our permits in a timely manner. As long as you're respectful to water and the indigenous communities, you get your permits. >> Two years ago on my show, you told me uh in my first interview with you actually is that the risk of silver in the future is that it could be mine into extinction. In other words, there isn't enough to service rising demand. The logical solution is just to increase the output of the mining um production. We can't do that just right just like that. We can't just turn on a switch and increase production. Or can we? We can't. No. And the problem with silver is only one out of every 4 ounces comes from a primary mine. So in order to increase production, you have to go to the lead mines, the zinc mines, the copper mines, the gold mines. And so you'd have to incentive those poly metallic producers to get more silver. When you focus on the primary silver mines, they're often in jurisdictions that are not favorable. They're often in projects that are incredibly deep, need a lot of capex. Um the the permitting timelines are are long. Uh we're in a situation right now where in Mexico, the world's number one silver producing nation, where 70% of silver comes from open pit projects, the Mexican government has not been handing out new open pit permits. So, if you think about the already uh tight market we're in where we're seeing 200 to 250 million ounce annual deficits and then factor in some of these political and social changes and and more stringent permitting timelines, I don't see the outlook for silver in the future getting any better. Hence why I'm so bullish on the price appreciating. Is the silver industry companies and executives like yourself doing anything to lobby the government to make changes? >> Yeah, absolutely. There we've got some pioneers in the space like uh First Majestic and Keith Newire that is lobbying both the Canadian and US administrations to make silver a critical mineral. Um so we are collectively working as a new >> What does that mean functionally when silver is labeled a critical mineral? What changes can be made? >> It depends what stage your company is. If I take my company for instance, um we can leverage tax incentives. So we can minimize dilution and we could take investment dollars and and stretch them if we got those uh tax advantageous treatments. If silver was treated like copper, um you know, for every dollar I raise, I could potentially put $1.5 in the ground. So it's a way to minimize dilution, maximize exploration and development and it's it's simply by reclassifying the metal critically. >> Actually Dolly Vardarden recently listed on the uh New York Stock Exchange. So you're opening yourself up to US capital markets. What are you preparing for? >> What am I preparing for? >> Yeah, look um it was something that I I debated with my board for many years before we made the decision. Um, you know, there's things to think about. There's a higher cost of legal, accounting, uh, you know, the liabilities go up. So, it wasn't something we didn't do without heavy debate. But my thinking was over 93% of North American capital is concentrated into the US. I spend a lot of time, I'm, you know, here we are in Colorado. I spend a lot of time in the US talking to US investors. They cannot buy the Canadian listing companies. They need NASDAQ and nicely listed coast. So, we've opened ourselves up to the biggest market in the world at a time where precious metals are irrelevant and silver and gold are breaking out. So, what I hope to achieve is look, if I'm a US investor on the New York Stock Exchange, there are 10 ways to play silver. Dolly Varden is one of those 10 ways. >> Yes. And then I guess with the additional exposure and presumably capital, does that expedite your timeline at all for >> absolutely >> drilling exploration? Look, the name of the game in the stock market is liquidity. >> Yeah. >> Right. Um we're see we've seen our liquidity dramatically increase. Uh yesterday was a day when we traded uh a million shares in the US. That's $4 billion US. Well, if you compare compare that to the Canadian listing, we did uh maybe $1.5 Canadian dollars. So already we're seeing volume and we're seeing, you know, you know, the market gravitate to that NYC listing, ETF inclusion, index inclusion, you know, that liquidity all helps. We're in a universe right now, David, where over 50% of money is passive, right? we are now able to absorb that passive money. >> So you are uh opening yourself up to the potential of being uh majority shareholder uh take over by let's say a pension fund or an ETF or let's say basically your shareholder ownership structure that would that change dramatically to the institutional side? >> Well, we're already before listing on the New York Stock Exchange, we were already 50% institutionally held. Uh we're starting to see the ETF and the index uh percentages tick up. Uh we've already got two corporates that own 26%. Eric brought at 10. What I'd like to see is our 13% that is in the hands of the public increase as well. We want to get exposure to family offices, high net worth US investors and um it's important that we grow our shareholder base. one major milestone from Dolly Varden over the next quarter that we should be watching for. >> Look, it's all about growth. What I I would love to come back on your program in the future. >> Yeah. >> And bring you a company that is no longer just an advanced explorer to bring in an element of production, a pipeline of development, exploration, and a portfolio of marketable securities. The way the great companies were built in our sector was through mergers and acquisitions and through drilling. We've done five M&A transactions in the last 5 years. It's time to be more bold, more acquisitive and uh you know we it is my goal to have Dolly become a top 10 silver equity and we are very close to realizing that vision. >> Okay. Well, the silver price is definitely in your favor. Good luck Sean. We'll speak again very soon. Thank you for coming on. Thank you so much, David. >> Follow Dolly Varden Silver links down below and check out Sean's past interviews with me. Also links down below. Take care, Sean. >> Thank you.