Investing in Nuclear Energy & Uranium – World Nuclear Symposium 2025 – Bloor Street Capital

Summary

World Nuclear Symposium 2025: The symposium in London saw increased participation from 1100+ delegates across 57 countries, emphasizing the growing global interest in nuclear energy.
Investor Interest: There is heightened interest from both specialist and generalist investment funds in uranium and nuclear energy, viewing it as a long-term secular play.
Nuclear Fuel Report: The World Nuclear Association's upcoming report highlights the need to triple uranium fuel supply by 2050 to meet global nuclear capacity goals, stressing the importance of aligning supply and demand.
Market Dynamics: The uranium spot market has seen a V-shaped recovery since April, with prices stabilizing and investor sentiment improving, despite previous uncertainties from geopolitical tensions and policy changes.
Contracting Activity: The term market has been quieter than expected, with only 45 million pounds contracted year-to-date, but there is anticipation of increased activity in the coming months.
Production and Supply Challenges: Companies like Kazatomprom are cautious about increasing production due to current market conditions, emphasizing the need for concrete commitments from market participants.
Strategic Developments: The entrance of companies like Microsoft into the nuclear sector suggests potential strategic investments akin to those seen in the lithium sector, indicating broader industry interest.
Future Outlook: The industry is optimistic about the role of nuclear energy in addressing global energy needs, with significant attention on new builds and technological advancements in reactor design.

Transcript

[Music] [Music] Sama, thank you for joining us today. We're in the great city of London for the World Nuclear Symposium 2025. There's been many positive changes this year. One of which is the venue. We're at the Royal Lancaster. I love this place. It's right on Hyde Park. Why the change in venue? >> Well, you know, this is our 50th war nuclear symposium. So, we wanted to make it make it bigger and better if that was even possible. So, so this is why we needed to have a bigger venue and and we we the other one just just grew too small for us. So as you know this year we have uh 1100 plus participants uh from 57 countries. So you know it's huge. So that's the reason the reason is we needed more space. We needed to grow we needed to to to to have space for all the people that are interested about nuclear >> and I remember last year when you and I were speaking we mentioned that there was a lot of investors here from a lot of the world's largest investment funds. Do we have the same sort of participation this year? Well, this year is even more than that, right? So, as you know, this year, in addition to the main executive program that you are familiar with, this year we have two summits. Uh, one uh strategic summit on finance and the other one on energy users. Why exactly? Because of what you just said. We've been trying to bring all these key stakeholders along with us into this journey. that at this point the interest is so so big that we really need to have a special symposium to deal with the specific aspects of finance community. So yeah, they are they are all here. Hopefully you had a chance to chat with some of them today. >> And one of the mandates of the World Nuclear Association is always producing content to educate >> people throughout the world and the benefits of nuclear energy. And to this point, one of the reports that you recently released was the nuclear fuel report. What's the purpose behind this? And maybe you can also speak to why investors might have an interest in this report. >> Right. Well, you you said it. We are an intelligence organization. part of our job is to provide information and provide actionable uh data that well investors or the nuclear community or governments can use in order to make wise decisions. So yes, the world nuclear fuel report will be released on Friday. So you are going to have to wait. I mean maybe you have the embargo copy because you are breast but uh so we will release this on Friday and uh it is a very important uh report. Why? because well obviously uh we cannot triple global nuclear capacity by 2050 if we don't have triple uranium fuel to to actually power this this generation. So it is important to make sure that we have that the supply and the demand of of of fuel are going to match and and if not what are the recommendations what is the industry governments financeers need to work together in order to make sure that we have uranium mining we have conversion enrichment fuel fabrication essential a very essential report >> and the nuclear fuel report is only produced every two years correct given all the changes within the industry and within the uranium mining sector. Why not do it more regular on a more regular basis every year or twice a year? >> Well, so so you're right. So actually this year is a we have a new a new set of reports or or sections in the report because as you said the well the world is changing and the the the nuclear uh fuel world is also changing. So for the first time ever we have introduced this year a chapter in which in which we in addition to the global demand and supply we look at regional imbalances because you know with the geopolitics geoeconomic complexities that we are seeing right now it is important not just look at the overall supply and demand but to analyze whether we have a gaps or or opportunities for growth in different regions. So that is a unique thing and so even though we don't produce the entire fuel report a new every two years every year we actually so the in the in the in between year we produce an update if there is any uh highlights or things that the investors and the finance years and the decision makers need to know we do produce an update in the middle >> and the second report we have to highlight is the world nuclear performance report. Tell us about this report. Well, the world nuclear performance report is produced every year and it was released on on Monday. So, this report summarizes number one the the status of the current fleet of nuclear reactors but also it gives an update of what is under construction and what is the the prospects. Right? So the good news which is fabulous news to me is that 2024 uh uh the nuclear industry had the largest generation uh of electricity ever. So basically we broke all the records and the previous record was 2006. So now we we have broke a new record. So we are excited. This is a great accomplishment. At the same time, you probably heard me. I am challenging the industry to break this record again next year and the following year and and every year afterwards. >> That's a great challenge. So, you and your team are always speaking at various events. Are there any other events coming up before the end of the year that we should be aware of? >> Yes. Yes. Yes. There are many things happening. I mean of course uh we are going to be in Africa at uh the uh Africa energy week because as you know there is lots of interest in nuclear energy in Africa. On the one hand many African countries are rich in resources including uranium. So that is a very interesting part of the world to discuss the front end of the fuel cycle. But at the same time I mean there is uh 600 million people in Africa with zero access to any any energy. So they are looking at nuclear energy as one of the pieces to to actually end energy poverty in Africa as soon as possible. So that's one that will be in early October. Then we will be in Singapore international energy week another uh opening market. You know that all the asan countries are looking very very very seriously at nuclear. Vietnam, Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia, Philippines, Singapore, all those countries have more or less advanced in some cases very advanced like Philippines in some of case cases not so advanced but there is a lot of momentum there. So we will be there and then afterwards we will be at COP 30 in Berlin in Brazil again bringing the importance uh the essential role of nuclear energy to address uh the huge enormous global challenge that we have of climate change. So that's that's what we will be >> so you have a lot going on. Well listen I want to thank you very much for spending time with us today and congratulations to you and your team on putting on another successful event. >> Thank you Jimmy. It's always a pleasure to to to join you here. Thank you. >> And we'll see you in 2026. >> We will do that. Thank you, [Music] >> John. Thank you for joining us today. You and your team are in London meeting with investors. I'm curious how these meetings are going and maybe you can give us some color on top the type of funds you're meeting with also. >> Yeah, we've uh been book solid which I think is a really good sign that investor interest remains very high. um right across the gamut of specialist funds that have been involved in uranium for several years to a number of new generalist funds that we're talking to that I you know again I I say this all the time they're still very early in their research work they view this as kind of a mega trend a long-term secular play and they continue to do work on uranium and the whole nuclear fuel supply chain so had a lot of really interesting uh meetings over the last couple of days >> and in terms of jurisdiction are the Americans Europeans, Asians. >> It's a real global trend because it is a global trend. Um, with the exception of a few outlier countries, I think the world is really pivoted back to nuclear energy as a solution to meet a number of uh really important uh needs. Obviously, energy security and national security and climate change driven objectives are all, I think, taking front front uh center stage in terms of why they're pivoting back to this technology. And obviously uh you know a more emerging theme that's coming out is around grid stability. You know we saw grids in in Spain in the last couple of months fail. People are looking for base load power. AI uh data centers is a huge part of the story. These hyperscalers are consuming huge amounts of electricity. So the utilities here I think they're feeling very good about uh you know demand for their electricity and also electricity prices remain very high. So that's that's a good environment for these companies to make investments long term. >> And when you're meeting with these funds, especially the generalists, what sort of questions are they asking you? >> Yeah, they're really trying to understand all the the parts of the supply chain, uh everything from uranium mining to uranium fuel processing to all the companies that are involved in the actual manufacturing and building of of uh power stations. Obviously, there's a lot of new emerging technologies that people are trying to assess to see which ones are going to be the winners. um in that race to develop small modular reactors, micro reactors, etc. >> I was speaking with somebody earlier and they were sitting in on numerous meetings and and one of the things they pointed out to me was that everyone's talking about nuclear energy. Very few people are talking about uranium. >> Yeah, I I actually agree with that assessment. there's been um a shift I would say from say two years ago when we were here uh when it was all about the fuel and now it's gone down market which is actually good because if you want to have more uranium demand and stronger prices you need need to build more capacity downstream so the focus I I agree with is actually shifted to all of the the interest about building new capacity at the power station level which will ultimately lead to more uranium demand So last year, I'm sure you would agree with me when I said it was characterized by a lot of frustration because we saw a big pullback in the spot price. 2025 a little bit different. It kind of feels like it's stabilizing and maybe consolidating. Maybe you can give us some color on what's happening or your assessment on what's happening within the spot market. >> Yeah, I think it's it's fair to say that this was a very unusual year. Um, a lot of that was really uh brought on by the incoming administration. uh uncertainty was really the theme with respect to energy policy, the inflation reduction act, tariffs, trade relations, the war in Ukraine. All of those things were big big obstacles and created a lot of uncertainty for market participants and investors to make decisions. And I think a lot of that has kind of cleared. We obviously saw the market bottom in April. And since April, we've seen a really strong V-shaped recovery in the stock prices. The price of uranium has come uh up from a low of 63 to now in mid70s and it feels like the uranium price wants to grind higher uh based on uh investor sentiment and I think growing realization that their supply challenges even amongst some of the biggest and best miners are real. >> And so to that point you did a raise earlier this year. You wanted to raise a hundred. You ended up raising $200 million. That money is spent now. >> Yeah. Yeah, I mean that was a a really welltimed I think uh transaction. We were really really happy with the support we we received from about 40 different institutional investors from around the world. That 200 million we wanted to opportunistically put to work in the market. While the market was kind of, you know, going sideways and and and being distracted with all of these uh tariff and and trade uh issues that I mentioned earlier, we've spent that money. We've uh acquired another about 2.5 million pounds of uranium. really happy with those purchases and the trust has been trading much better in the last few days and our at the market offering has also been reactivated after a little bit of a hiatus. >> So that means the trust is trading at a premium. So you're able to raise cash. Why do you think it's trading at a premium? >> Yeah, I mean if you if you go back to April and let's let's call that the market bottom and and the trust at that point was was reflective of uh all of this uncertainty. uh and it was trading at about a 20% discount to NAV which I think was the most extreme uh in its fouryear life that has now closed back to uh a small premium and I think that is a very strong barometer of investor interest returning this space people feeling like they can get positioned again that we have more certainty going forward on some of these big you know macro and geopolitical issues >> so there's been a new development that spot that I want to bring up and that is the fact you can now trade options on that product. Tell us about this. >> Yeah, we're pretty excited about this and it was a long time in the making and I wish it had come earlier but as of uh this week uh there are there is going to be options trading on the Canadian dollar line on the on the Toronto Stock Exchange. Uh and why this is important is because it gives investors another tool to play the uranium space. It's important because uh many institutional investors over the years have gravitated more to optionsbased trading strategies on underlying ETFs and closed end funds and there isn't an active futures market for uranium. So this is really going to help to fill that void. I hope it creates a new use case for the trust where potentially producers utilities and traders could use these options to help gain exposure, manage exposure, etc. And because we are in Europe, we have to talk about your European partner Han ETF. They're based here in London, but they look after distribution, regul regulatory issues, etc. Maybe you can talk about that and how European investors if they want to trade the spot product. They can do it through the HAN ETF. Is that >> Yeah, I mean this is a global um category, there's global interest in uranium. And so at SWAT, you know, we have a number of different funds doiciled in various jurisdictions including Canada, the United States, and we have these Irish doiciled funds that our partner Han ETF uh distributes for us. So we have versions of the uranium mining ETF and the junior uranium mining ETF that are doiciled as usage funds which um are requirements for many uh local investors to to to participate in. Those are available in different currencies as well. Uh and we're very happy with the partnership with Han over the last three years. >> So I I have to ask you about gold now. Uh your largest physical trust is the gold trust and gold great 2024 was up 25%. We're already we got three or four months left in the year but gold's up 30 plus%. Maybe tell us about some of the flows you're seeing into various products. >> Yeah, I mean it's been a huge win for our clients. Uh obviously last year and this year the gold trust is uh well through 12 billion US and you know we've raised over a billion dollars year to date in that fund. Um I remember you and I sat down at the beginning of the year and we were talking about the gold trust and I said we were really disappointed last year not in the performance but how much capital we had raised which was about 350 million and I said investors were just not paying attention. Now the fund is up another 30 odd percent and the money is finally starting to come in. You know, we want to take advantage of the price action and and add more to our vaults. So, we've been very active on that fund. And more recently, silver's kind of come back to life and is at a 10-year high and it feels like it wants to break free and and and you know, uh surpass the 2011 high, which was at $50 an ounce. So, we're feeling pretty good about uranium, gold, silver, and platinum um at SPRAT. and we've been very active in all those metals. >> So, one of the things I really enjoy about SPRAT is the wealth of information you have on your website. If maybe you can just talk about that and investors have an interest in gold, silver, uranium, or very many other products. >> Yeah, I mean, we want to be uh the expert for all kinds of investors, whether you're a do-it-yourself investor or very sophisticated institution. We want to make ourselves available in our team of experts. We want to share our insights. I've probably spent the vast majority of my time on investor education in one way or another. Uh you're a big part of that in terms of helping us get our message across. So we really appreciate that. But it's really important because many investors and it doesn't matter who you are have not participated in a lot of these metal markets for the last 10 years. So it's a it's a process of education and research. Where do I get information? I need to make an informed educated decision. And so we really want to help people through that journey. And so if somebody has an interest in checking out the SPAT website, where can they go? >> Yeah, go to our insights tab. And we also have an education tab, there are some really great white papers that we write every month, reports on precious metals, uranium, critical materials. Our podcasts are hugely popular. We have a lot of in-house experts and outside guests that we bring in to help educate investors about these different categories. So that's a really good starting point. And you and your team are always great at innovating and coming up with new products. Do we can we expect anything in the near future? >> Well, um we've been pretty active in the last uh few months and we're pretty excited about um uh a few products that we've launched. Um the silver miners and physical silver ETF has been a really well-received product that just crossed $200 million in a few months. our actively managed gold and silver miners ETF um is gaining traction and we're just about to launch a actively managed metals and mining ETF in the United States which will be coming out in the next week or so. >> And when you say metals and mining that's pretty broad. >> It's going to be a more broad dynamic approach to taking advantage of opportunities across uh a number of different metals and minings in base metals, critical materials, uh steel stocks. uh it's going to be a more flexible strategy that our team is uh going to be managing. >> Well, John, this was a great update. I want to thank you very much for spending time with us today. Good luck with your meetings. >> Yeah, thanks very much. [Music] >> David, thank you very much for joining us today. You and I recently did an interview where we discussed a lot of the recent developments at Dennis that have come out in the last few months. The one thing we didn't talk about though was project financing as it pertains to Phoenix. And just as a reminder to our viewers, the capex on Phoenix is just over $400 million. So I want to talk about project financing. You recently did a raise convertible notes. You raised $345 million. So my first question is why did you do the raise now and why converts? >> Yeah, Jimmy, look uh it's exciting to be back uh on with you so quickly after all that summer news. Um, and you're right, one of the most important subsequent developments has been our financing. So, US 345 million convertible notes. Really important to understand that these are US style converts. Uh, so we've seen in the Canadian marketplace more conventional converts used uh often strategic investors coming in with an this opportunity to then convert their their their loan position into equity later. This is more institutional distribution uh of US style converts which allow us to um settle the the notes on conversion in our choice of cash equity or a combination and that's unique. That means that we can choose to pay back the notes in in cash and that's a important background to the question of why do it now and why choose these converts. So we would not have done a conventional convert deal because we'd have been uh you know looking at a scenario where we we see our share price moving up and then likely outcome would be conversion into equity and thus dilution. That wasn't interesting to us. The ability to be able to pay out the the note on settlement or on conversion with cash was essential for us because what the instrument ends up looking like in many scenarios is pretty vanilla debt. And so, but because of that optionality that's there for the investor, we're able to achieve this very low coupon cost on the note. And so, we're at 4.25%. Which is, you know, far beyond what we could have achieved uh in terms of cost on a conventional bankled project financing. And we estimate that we've saved over US $und00 million in interest by going this way. Now, there is a conversion feature. And so that's something that we were mindful of. Uh and and fundamentally the investor has the ability, the bond investor has the ability to convert when they're up 35%. We've layered on uniquely a capped call structure. So this is the first that we're aware of uh of a Canadian doicile TSX listed company to do a US style convert with a capped call. The cap call is important because it moves the effective conversion price for Denison up up about to 100% equivalent from where we were uh you know pre- finance. So that would be in the like 432 US per share range. Now what this means a little complicated um is that essentially until we're up over 432 US we we have the potential to have no equity dilution on this. And so that's those are important factors. A little bit complicated, but really important factors for why this instrument mattered. Ultra low coupon saving us $100 million plus versus conventional finance without the conventional convertible dilution because of the capped call. And so we have a structure that in many cases will look like vanilla debt but has ultra low cost. So then with that low cost, it gave us the ability to execute it early before we're permitted. And so now uh with funding in place, we have this advantage of as soon as the permits arrive, we're able to immediately execute on the project. So we did like the market dynamics at the time, the convertible market in the US very strong and you could see that the interest in our offering was significant which allowed us to get the excellent pricing. So look, you you you need to have confidence that we're and we needed to have confidence that we would execute on the project which we do and so we need funding to do that. That opportunity was there. We like the terms, we like the instrument and so we executed. >> And did a lot of the interest come out of the US? >> Significant portion out of the US. Uh US style converts is a whole other uh market essentially a broad group of institutional investors. that would be new to our story generally would not be participating in regular equity. These are uh convertbased investors in many cases but also global distribution including Canada and Europe. >> And you did touch on bank financing when you're looking at other financing options. That's one of them. What else would you look at or consider >> overall with this with the convertible notes deal? um we're incredibly well financed and and so whatever else we would do on financing is really on the margins now. Uh so there is the potential for some level of additional uh credit uh you know whether it be overrun facilities or bank revolvers. Uh but but really we we can be very selective now in terms of uh rounding out any funding needs. Notionally the the notes plus our physical uranium they fund execution of Phoenix. What we're looking at, if anything, beyond that, is really to support growth initiatives within our company. >> And David, we should really focus on your balance sheet now and the strength of your balance sheet. After this raise, you're now sitting on $460 million in cash and cash equivalents. You still have $2.2 million or 2.2 million pounds of uranium. So maybe you can just speak to that. >> Yeah, Jimmy, overall, uh, we're in a situation where we're talking about over $700 million in cash cash equivalents, uh, uranium and investments. Uh so of course that does mean that we're in excellent financial position. Uh we've tried to manage the company over the last several years to be in a place where we are uh in control of our own destiny financially and we've tried to avoid being in a place where uh there's any degree of telegraphing or overhang around financing. So with with that balance sheet, there's no doubt that we're incredibly well positioned to now execute on the project as soon as we're able to get those permits in hand. So let's talk about the permitting process. The next significant catalyst for Dennis are the meetings with the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission. Maybe you can just take us through that timeline and what shareholders can expect. >> Yeah, I think we've entered uh you know an exciting final phase of the multi-year permitting process that we've been in and I'm calling it the approvals receipt phase. there's no new work really uh to happen on in our permitting space in on the permitting space or or side of things. Um but for to finish the uh approvals process and so to you know one of the important approvals received this summer which was the provincial approval of our environmental assessment and that really kicked off this last phase of of approval receipts. So uh there is additional provincial approval required uh for our pollutant control facility and that's something that we're working towards and we don't see as the critical path. Uh so it does really come down to the CNC hearings and there are two federal approvals from the CNC. One is for our environmental assessment and the second is our license to construct. Now those will be heard together as part of one two-part hearing. So I know that seems a bit complicated. the the hearing will hear the EA and the license to construct jointly, but it occurs in two parts. And the first part will be in October, which is where the CNC staff and Dennison will make its presentations. And the second part will happen in early December, where the public will have a chance to reflect on our presentations and make their uh you know, provide their feedback. And and the terminology that's used is interventions. Uh interventions uh can be positive or negative. And we would expect that we will have many positive interventions uh for the project. After that process, the you know commission will hear the uh materials from the public and then they will deliberate and we're expecting a decision then in early 2026. So on our end we're all about executing on those hearings and then preparing in the background to execute on the project as soon as the approval is received in the beginning of 2026. >> So maybe you can just speak to that. So once you get that decision in early 2026, uh then you're going to make a fin or a final investment decision and then a construction decision. So maybe you can just take us through that timeline. >> Yeah, I mean FID is is something that the market shouldn't be surprised that will occur um on this project. We've been investing heavily in the project over the last several years, but you're right, there will be that sort of official uh decision by the company once we have our approvals in hand to proceed with the project. So final investment decision would follow uh and then you know we are organized to be able to start executing construction promptly. So in the background right you've got detailed design engineering and procurement project financing as well but we've just touched on that that's well in hand. So that's tick on that side. We won't be waiting for funding. Um but where where we're focused now in in the background is on that detailed design engineering. We're already over 75% complete on total engineering. uh we will be approaching 100 to 95% complete by the end of the year. In fact, we're already in a state where many of the first year of construction scopes are at that 95 to 100% complete uh state so that we are ready to hit the ground running. We've been procuring long lead items since late 2023 and basically many most items are now long lead or require procurement and our budget for this year was already very sizable in the range of 70 million plus for completion of engineering and procurement of of key items to make sure we can execute on the project schedule. So that's that's our job in the background while our regulatory team is is focused on preparing for the hearings and executing on the hearings. Our engineering and operations procurement teams are making sure that when when the approvals come in, we're ready to execute. >> So, you have a lot going on, >> Jimmy. We have an incredible amount of things going on because it's not just Phoenix. You know, we we are looking at the pipeline of projects and our partnerships with Orano. You know, it is an incredibly busy time and, you know, for me, uh, quite a lot quite different from where it was when I started as a company CEO 10 years ago. Uh and it's really exciting to have seen our team build and to be in a place where today we're this close to executing on Phoenix and uh in fact we've already come back into the ranks of producer with our success at MLAN Lake. So quite a turnaround over the last decade for our company. >> So you're in London for the World Nuclear Symposium. You're meeting with investors. You're also meeting with utilities. I'm curious to hear about the meetings you have with utilities. Maybe you can just touch on that and what sort of questions they're asking. Well, Jimmyian, utilities are not that different than investors uh in terms of what they want to know. They want to understand the state of the project. Um they're also interested in how the project is being funded or the state of financing, the state of our technical work and de-risking and our permitting. Um you know, they they ultimately have an interest in in accessing the uranium that comes out of the ground. The investor is looking for exposure to the dollars that come from us selling that uranium that comes out of the ground. So mostly aligned uh in what they're asking about. Uh but we are very busy here and we have been in in what we call the commercial space for most of this year uh engaging with utilities. Uh our our our our team here at the WNA is more focused on utility engagement uh than investor engagement. Although it is very interesting to see that the number of investors at the conference continues to grow. Uh so that that is an interesting aside but no our our focus here is on updating utilities uh understanding their needs making sure they understand the status of our project and looking for matches. You know we're not aggressively out there marketing our production. Uh we have taken a strategically patient approach to selling our future production. Uh but we do want the utilities to understand where we're at and have confidence and trust in the work that we're doing on the project. So that's that's really the focus is keeping them uh apprised and and uh informed about the project. >> Jeff, thank you for joining us today. Your title at Dennis is VP of corporate development and also commercial. So one of your jobs is speaking with utilities and lining up buyers for your uranium production. I'm curious how these meetings are going with the utilities. >> Yeah, thanks a lot, Jimmy. And certainly, you know, WA is important time. the fall contracting season often kicks off on the back of this conference. But I think in terms of how our discussions are going this week and really how they've been they're progressing and also having a natural transition point. We just recently uh completed a convertible note offering that bolstered the balance sheet significantly and my role spans both corporate development and commercial and and project financing for us as part of that and very much integrated within our commercial strategy and you know recall we have approximately 2 million pounds of physical uranium and inventory. In the past, our priorities really focused on using that inventory to help bolster project financing and use it to monetize and fund the construction of the project. With the convertible note proceeds, we certainly have a higher degree of latitude in terms of how we use the remaining balance of that inventory. And so, as we recently started production at MLAN Lake, our balance sheet has been bolstered. Now, the transition is naturally shifting to some of the more longerdated contracting opportunities where we can use that inventory. MLAN production all in advance forming near-term deliveries of long-term contracts which are ultimately fed and supplied by our Phoenix production beginning in 2028. and you know called this journey of explaining our commercial strategy and the multiple source of supply we're offering has been something that's been really wellreceived and as we keep ticking off different milestones and our development curve the enthusiasm and call it um frequency of dialogues level negotiations and opportunities is certainly accelerating with utilities >> and Jeff as you mentioned you're meeting with a lot of utilities I'm curious what are some of the key questions that they're asking and how does Dennis fit into their strategy >> yeah well I think that's also part maybe the natural progress of how discussions have evolved over time. And I think the questions are are fewer because when we're meeting them, we find our customers are up to speed on what we're doing. We've tried to establish ourselves as credible, reliable uh operators and steward stewards of our assets that they're aware of the key de-risking milestones that we continue to check off on our path to production at Phoenix uh as well as our corporate development activities uh production at Saber. So it I think every time we're refreshing and updating with utilities, they're seeing how real the supply from Denison is and how it really is a differentiated offering. I think some of the natural focus of the discussion is uh when's Phoenix going to be producing, how much can you offer us on what structures are you willing to transact on? And for us, it's really a give and take relationship where we're trying to understand what our customers need and what works for us. We certainly have a an idea of how to optimally structure contracts, how to build a portfolio of contracts within our book. And so we spend a lot of time trying to optimize that function. >> Those are great insights and I want to thank you for spending time with us today. I know you have a busy day of meetings. So I don't want to keep you anymore. Once again, thank you. >> Thanks Jimmy. [Music] Thank you very much for joining us today. You've been with UXC for 18 years now and you've been coming to the World Nuclear Symposium for a similar amount of time and I'm kind of curious to hear what your thoughts are and how things have changed just in the last few years from when you first started coming here. >> Well, the exciting part, first of all, thank you for inviting me. Really excited to to be joining you for this conversation. I think the exciting part is new faces. For several years, we were all here. No, we all knew each other. There was no need to take business cards. I had to reprint a new box just for this year. Um so many new people um in the room, a lot of investor interest and a lot of folks that are um I found especially interesting a lot of folks who were here um 18 years ago for the first nuclear renaissance took a break and are coming back to look at the nuclear um energy once again. So um that's that's the most exciting part. Of course, always good to see old friends, but uh meeting new people is is is good for the industry. >> And they keep changing the venue. It gets larger and larger every year. >> Absolutely. Um so it's uh we we do we I project we need even more space next year. So >> So UXC offers many different services to both the uranium and also the nuclear energy services or sectors. And a big one is price forecasting. And that's what I want to have a conversation with you on. And I want to hit on all aspects of the fuel cycle, spot term, enrichment, conversion. And why don't we just spot start with the spot market. How would you characterize the spot market year to date in 2025? >> The spot market is always a good good solid place to start. Um so we're at so far we're um about at uh 33 million pounds. Um, and when I think about the spot market, I like to compare it to the previous year because we know what last year looked like. Um, so, um, last year at about this time, um, and I I took a peek, uh, at my numbers, uh, um, uh, this morning, uh, we were at 30 million pounds. So, that gives you that we're roughly sort of 10% above, uh, but about in line. So my question for myself uh is whether or not sort of looking at total volumes whether we're going to hit 50 million pounds which is sort of average um number for the spot market transactions for the year. It looks like we're we're have a pretty decent chance to have sort of a a pretty solid year. Um but I will say that numbers only if you look at the totals they they hide sort of a deeper story about the trends in the market. Uh, one thing that I would um I would say that as far as um investor um financial um interests such as purchases by spot and other entities roughly in line with last year. Uh but what we do see um so no change there. Uh but we do see um utility interest uh and utilities coming back to the spot market which is uh in a significantly larger um manner than they participated last year which is good. we do need enduser participation and in fact uh not only the utilities purchased more in the spot. Um they also um the numbers some of the trader purchases was on behalf of the utilities to carry that material into the forward years. So we we are marking a a return a a small still still yet a trickle but a return of carry trade. So that's linking all the years and the markets which is very healthy and very supportive for the spot market. >> And you said the utilities are more prominent this year than past years. Why? >> Um it's various reasons. Not a single sort of big answer. Um one is you know opportunistic. So if the if the spot uh market softens certainly the interest picks up uh you know some discretionary buying um some to to plug various uh little needs here and there. Um but uh it's it's not necessarily some you know there's not necessarily a big explanation for it. uh but they do see you know the fact of when the spot market is significantly above term that means the utilities retreat but any softening means the utilities are looking back as as something that that presents good opportunities be it for inventory buying be it for for needs to carry forward >> so let's talk about the term market now and last year we had 110 million pounds this year we're at 45 million pounds year to date how would you characterize this market. >> Yeah, the numbers we have so far uh and given the fact that we're entering September, the market looks a little anemic, doesn't it? Um it started off quite uh uh it started off quite slow. We have seen a bit of a an uptick in utility interest just prior to to coming to the WNA. So So we've had sort of a mini waves of of requests and some contracting. Um I would predict um within UXC we keep tabs of potential interest. I think that we are marking as of the moment potentials not necessarily that they will realize they could bring our if all come through could bring the mark the the totals um close to last year uh we might of course fall short um but I would say that one of the things that um of course the numbers often time depend on large utility uh purchases. So um if you have big players in the market they that signed large contracts then you might have quite large spikes. So any kind of wave of uh buying from the likes of China um signing large contracts it it will u move the numbers as well. Uh but but I do anticipate continued utility interest in the long-term market um for the remainder of the year and going into 2026. And so if we assume 45 million is the right number right now, that means you anticipate a lot of action in the next few months. >> Um I think there is I think there's potential for that. Whether or not it will materialize it it it is yet, you know, it depends. Uh it's just our um projections of of of um the timing of some of their FFPS and based on the needs and and and insights from from the utility buyers. So let's talk about enrichment and conversion. Now these are other important aspects of the fuel cycle. How would you define them? >> Um well conversion you know I think everyone agrees it's the weakest link. We already established that. Um nobody disagrees with with that statement. Um what we are seeing in conversion is um the long-term price continues to remain very strong. Uh but the most important aspect about conversion and is the fact that we still have not seen any firm um investment decisions regarding either new capacity such as Springfields um or um GLE's um uh PLA plant um or expansion um such as uh for example by Converine. So the delay in reaching these investment decisions um is certainly something that's uh a concern for the utilities um and um my hope is to see by the end of 25 going at least in you know within the first quarter of 26 uh that some final decisions are made that would allow for that capacity to come online um around the turn of the decade. um because uh uh it is it is quite vital that we see new um uh conversion capacity. In the meantime, everybody is doing a great job on um uh production side. All three converters are are doing actually phenomenal job. Uh but of course, as anything with with conversion, we're kind of keeping our fingers crossed that there's no production disruptions. The industry has um you know, it's it's its complex plans to operate. um anybody who thinks conversion is easy just because it is um you know a chemical process is is certainly quite wrong. So we are just you know let's keep our our toes and our fingers crossed and and and and cheer for for the converters to to continue their good job. >> And before we touch on enrichment when you say conversion is the weakest link that's because the west or utilities are so reliant on Russia for conversion capacity. So you know the story of conversion really started changing in 2014. So in 2014 you had a situation we had we always had such an overcapacity in conversion and uh in fact I remember the the times when when conversion was almost almost free. Um so if somebody had UF6 and they wanted to unlock that U308 it would be given away uh virtually free. But in 2014 um there was this realization we have too much um capacity. Um so two plants shut down. One in Russia actually their their largest uh plan that accounted for 60% of capacity and one in in Springfields in the UK here. Um and then um we still were at at large over capacity and in fact secondary supplies and conversion accounted for more than half of supplies that were in the market. Um so we did have a decision by um Honeywell to shut down the metropolis plan and what that shutdown um resulted is in this absorbing of all this inventory that was heavily overhanging the market. So as a result we're sort of in this rebalanced market without um all of this excess um that is overhanging. But that means should there be a supply disruption of any kind, we don't have all this stuff that would cushion um the blow. So we we certainly um we're certainly a much balanced market, a much tighter market um without that excess capacity or those heavy inventories that were um that were sort of safeguarding um any any kind of disruption. >> And remind me again, Russia is responsible for how much of global capacity? I don't recall as to the the exact number but Russia has uh primary sources of conversion and they also use their enrichment capacity um in order to produce um UF6 through underfeeding and tales reenrichment. So they have sort of these two flows uh of uh of conversion capacity. So they have the direct one and indirect uh as well. And it's it's notable but Russia is not um does not recall that Russia does not sell conversion on its own. So um I don't think there was ever a Russian contract there. It was just for conversion services. So Russia if um if it does place conversion it is part of a packaged product either together with its enrichment part of EUP or part of their fabricated fuel. So conversion for Russia is just an intermediary step and not a focus of their um of their industry. >> Understood. And what about enrichment? What can you tell us about that sector? >> Well, enrichment is in a very uh this the enrichment sector is definitely undergoing a process of rebalancing. Um we had a 2022 big turning year without any doubt for the entire uh nuclear industry. I would say that uh Russia's invasion in Ukraine, this is just a step back. I would I would say that it is on par if with Fukushima as far as the impact on on on our industry. Um so the impact is is is significant. It rewrote completely the the supply demand the market fundamentals um and changed it. So we within UXC just don't look at the entirety of the global market um on the demand and supply side. We we look at the open markets and and the supply that's available there. Um the enrichers definitely so you know you it's it's a it's a small group of people at least for now a lot of aspiring entrance. Um but uh both Urano and Orana made quick moves in terms of capacity expansion. Kudos to them. They had uh virtually no uh centrifuge production at the time with the wind down of etc. So big investments um big moves in and in and expansions that were fast. Um um and they did make adjustments in the in the way that their plants operated as well to unlock that primary uh SWO capacity. Um um so there's that But but at the same time where we are seeing tightness in the market, the utilities um ensure that they're covered for the next few years. Um but going forward um there is a big question about while while we can we definitely can expect um Orano and Urano to to uh gradually add some extra capacity there's definitely a desire and recognition that a healthy market requires um a certain degree of competition and that competition has been reduced um with exit um of Russia. So you went through from this uh competitive igopoly uh towards a uh towards a duopoly um with marginal participation from Russia and China and and going forward uh there is a clear desire by the end users to to to inject a bit of competition. So so there's a lot of newcomers uh in enrichment sector which is not um something that we could have anticipated um just a couple of years ago. In the past few years, utilities have been more focused on conversion and enrichment, less so on uranium. Do you think that's still the case or is it starting to shift now more toward the acquisition of uranium? >> You're definitely right. The priorities were on the enrichment and conversion and the reason is for that tighter market, reduced number of players uh concerns to to put these to put all of these um things in in in place before um before uranium is is procured. There is a um there's definitely a lot of attention that's being paid to uranium uh from strategic uh standpoint. Desire to encourage junior uh producers to bring new production online. Uh desire to layer in some coverage. Um but I would say that it has always been the case that uh uranium there's more players in uranium market and there's different ways to procure the pounds. So I would say that the level of concern about uranium it's not that it doesn't exist. Absolutely uranium is getting the attention uh from from the uh from the utilities but it will it it has always been less than about this more about conversion enrichment. I would say that it would continue to be the same simply because there's more options and more solutions um that can be put in place. So, we can't have a discussion on uranium without talking about geopolitics. And this is one of the things that makes mining so interesting and also challenging. And I want to bring up recent events. China just had a military parade. They had heads of states from 26 different countries, but the most noticeable ones in my opinion were, of course, China, the host country, but also Russia and India. And all three of these countries have very aggressive nuclear energy programs. and aspirations. Uh if you look out 5 years or 10 years, this new alliance that's forming with these countries, how do you think that might impact the fuel cycle and how will it impact the western utilities? >> Well, um there's definitely rebalancing in the geop in in the uh in in geopolitics. Um Russia recall that um Russia, China um India and Brazil are part of a block called bricks and that blog is definitely getting a lot of a lot of um traction uh they are seeing each other as um as allies um um particularly for example India was when you look beyond uh nuclear and you look at at oil and gas uh India has become the number one buyer of Russian oil uh in very very quickly and increased uh its imports Um so there's definitely um there's definitely historic alliances and and we will see um some some of this um posturing. Um I I would imagine that one of the things that that folks uh are um are asking and and I imagine that's you're implying this is the fact that um Kazakhstan and Usbekistan um are located in a very tough region with very big neighbors, Russia on one side and and China on the other side and and um what happens to that to that supply? um you know uh Kazakhstan has been having to balance um it's uh in Usbakistan as well. So I'm saying these both of these large Central Asian producers um have had to deal with with these big um u neighbors for quite some time. So it is a delicate diplomatic act and it is also um this idea of how to have these different vectors in diplomacy in order to ensure that you're not beholden to any of the any of the um uh either of the two two big neighbors that they can be quite overwhelming. Um so and this was also reflected in um if you look at the geographic breakdown that Kazadrom uh puts forward in their in their reports um uh they are quite cautious about ensuring a certain degree of diversification and and so in in many ways um this um this uh distribution and diversification is uh reflective of of their um of their foreign policy as well. I would expect their desire to do so um going forward. >> UXC recently published a report and it was titled the calm before the storm and I'm curious about the title and maybe you can just give us a gist of that article. >> Yes, I think you're referring to an editorial we did in the UX weekly and you give credit um for that to uh UXC president Jonathan Hinsay. Um and um um it it was um a bit of you know we we do put forward not just the analysis but a lot of the times our opinion. So, it was just it was a a mere couple of pages, but it was a bit of a uh our take on the long-term uranium market and the indication about the fact that um there's definitely upward pressure um that that folks should not be relaxed and and take uranium um industry for granted. Um and and there is um uncovered um uranium uh demand um uh that needs uh that folks need to to take action on. And um it was a bit a bit of um uh a bit of a warning um to to to the industry just to uh not not to delay action on some of the uranium um coverage. >> And so if I push you and I try to uh get some numbers out of you, where do you see the term price going a year from now when we're having a conversation here at the symposium? >> All right. If I take my UXC head off and I and I I just I just stand here as Anya. Um um this is not a UXC forecast. I just want to be um careful and uh and maybe we'll regroup a year from now. See see how I do. Um, I would project um I'd say let's try for 83 long-term price and um in 80 in the spot >> and um >> those are pretty conservative numbers. I think we have it is very easy to forget um about the fact that um um about the fact that we gained a lot in terms of the prices in uranium um and that uh you know it's >> it's always easy to to wish for the sky and the moon but what we really are looking for is a sustainable industry with sustainable prices. Um and um I' I'd say um you know looking at the looking for the last pound that that this industry needs and the costs um of this pound and um I' I'd say it's quite reason it's quite reasonable number in in my view um but um you know it's um it's it still is uh you know spot spot market is always inventory driven market um there is still a good bit of material out there. So we'll we'll decide it will continue to be quite volatile. Um but uh for the term uh we're at 80 right now and when we're saying 80 it's a base uh in a base escalated contract. This is the base number that is escalated. So your delivery is not at $80. Your delivery is um is at a you know depending on on where that is. Uh so a lot of the times people don't really understand what our long-term indicator means but it doesn't mean what the price of which somebody is buying. it is just that fixed portion. Um but uh uh uh and as a as a matter of fact there is a big shift towards market related contracting. Right now there is a recognition that um uh there's a belief um that uh the market has upward potential uh which it does and um um market related means that you're you know you're you're putting some kind of parameters floors and ceilings and but you do have ability to you will move depending at the time of delivery where they spot prices and um the suppliers are definitely wanting to capture that upward momentum. So we'll we'll see. Um I am projecting personally Anya not as UXC um an upward movement in in the term price um just throughout a number of of 83 but um I think it is a steady it points to a steady upward increase. >> Well great insights and I want to thank you very much for spending time with us today and I know you're very busy here. You got a lot of meetings going on so I don't want to keep you. Enjoy your time in London. Oh >> thank you so much Jimmy. [Music] Lee, thank you very much for joining us today. We are in London for the World Nuclear Symposium and you're meeting with a lot of investors and a lot of utilities and I'm curious, especially with regard to utilities, how are those meetings going and what sort of questions are they asking? Yeah, look, James, it's the it's the busiest we've ever had uh at a WNA and uh with recent events over the well, specifically over the last three months, but also the course over the last 12 months, there's no doubt there's added stress into the supply chain be it sovereign risk with respect to what happened in Nure or you know downgrading in productions be it in Kazetta and and most recently MacArthur River. So you know the consequence is utilities are looking at their fuel procurement looking at the security of supply and because security of supply is such a critical component of nuclear fuel um it's resulting in many more meetings between producers emerging producers and and utilities and we're seeing that in contracts that have been signed recently which we announced we doubled our contract book um they're currently with all US utilities Uh but our negotiations cover the US, Europe, uh Asia and the Middle East. So um it's certainly taking up a lot lot more of uh nextgen's time than what it did say the same time last year at this conference. >> And I'm glad you brought up the contracts because as you mentioned in the last six months, you've signed contracts totally over 10 million pounds with US utilities. And the way you structure these contracts is different than what we've seen in the past. Maybe you can just speak to that and how that benefits next year. >> Yeah, that that's true. The markets it's it's it's evolving. Um I wouldn't say it's changing. It's evolving though. And what's that is reflecting is the demand and the supply that's uh the factors that are affecting those two components um playing out with respect to us. uh we have really our contract position reflects the low economic cost and technical certainty around our mine. It's got a very very high confidence around production levels in certain years. And so what we have done is seen a reduction in the length of the contracts that we've entered into from what had been done in the past and also um new pricing mechanisms uh that have floors ceilings but also completely at spot and then no floor very high ceilings. Um, and look, there's not one uh contract that suits all mines and there's not one contract that suits all utilities and it's about understanding the unique characteristics of the mine and with the requirements of the utility and what we provide at NextGen is high flexibility but with very high confidence of delivery. Uh, and so uh and that is reflecting in the contracts evolving to reflect those circumstances. So um to be a part of that movement which is ultimately at the at the betterment of both the producer but also the utility >> um is very exciting and um uh I think you'll see continue to see that evolve over the next 12 months and beyond. >> And you mentioned that the contracts you've signed thus far with US utilities but you're also speaking with European and Asian utilities. Yep. >> Why have you only had contracts with US utilities? Why haven't we seen other >> Yeah, it hasn't been any type of focus. It's probably just been that those ones have materialized before the others. Um, you know, we're we're at very advanced stages with utilities in the US. Um, even with some that we have signed contracts with in terms of follow-up contracts. um negotiations with Asian Utilities uh have been over a broader period um cuz that's very relationship based um but there I would say we're coming to the the end of the and we'll have a offtake uh with um utilities in Asia probably before the next conference um in 12 months from now probably even perhaps um earlier than that um we our our contract position we're currently at 10 million pounds over the first five years. We have a break even uh volume of about3 million pounds at NextGen. So we are almost at a beyond a break even stage um over the first three years and the next contract will I think will take us over that break even stage or or level um for the first 5 to 10 years of production. And so uh we've got a many many more pounds to then offtake. Um but uh we have crossed that minimum threshold which gives investors and everyone a lot of certainty and that's what we're about providing certainty. >> And why don't we talk about project financing? Now you have had expressions of interest from many banks totaling $1.6 billion. So you have a lot of options available. or maybe you can just talk about some of the options and how you might proceed when it comes to financing. >> Yeah, the the capital cost of the project's 1.5 billion US uh as per August 2024 and uh we've had expressions of interest of debt of 1.6 billion US. That basically means you're only ever going to take maximum debts probably roughly 2/3 of the the capex. So we're talking about a billion dollars. um that's been led the the biggest uh that's with multiple lenders, but the biggest lender um is a uh an agency that's uh supportive of nuclear energy and and development of projects um in our region. Um and they're on, you know, they they're on really good terms. Um we're also looking at uh equity as well. uh and then potentially a prepayment on a future supply uh as well which would also contribute to the overall financing package. Um look given the incredible economics of the project uh it's not like the quantum's not the the challenge. It's about getting the right structure re relevant for our mind and the timeline to production and the the amount of production that we're looking to uh deliver. And when can we expect a final decision with regard to >> yeah to and it's totally around the permit because we actually can't start spending that money until we have the permit. So in terms of the uh financing decision that will conclude uh at the time we have uh final federal approval which is expected to be with the commission hearing dates uh the first one 77 days away and then the following one on February the 9th 206. uh we would expect federal approval within 60 days following that as it's legislated. And so you'll see a conclusion of that financing package at or around Q2 2026. And so once you get that final decision in Q2 of 2026, uh of course you're going to make a decision on the financing, but what else can we expect in terms of the timeline associated with that decision as you move toward construction? Yeah, you'll see more off takes. Uh you'll also see uh the the um uh drilling at PCE which is going incredible. Um only 3 and a half km from Arrow which is the world's best. We could be having a challenger to the world's best in PCE. It's looking fantastic. Um and so uh yeah, exploration results off takes um the team's building. uh we're getting prepared to build and and you also see permitting. Um you know, we're very confident around the the uh commission hearings given all the work that's done uh the support that we have from all our um communities in the project area and they're advocating very strongly, let's get going. So, um we're ready. We know exactly what we're building. Benefit of a long permitting process is it allows you plenty of time to plan, revise, and and build the team. and we're ready. We know what we're building. We've got the team in place. Uh we're well funded for the first 12 months of construction. Uh the financing total financing package will be done well before we run out of money. Um so it's a incredible time for us as a company, but also as an industry. It's it's uh it's really evolving. >> So I'm glad you brought up PCE because I want to talk about some of the exploration results. And as you mentioned, it's only three 3.5 kilometers away from Arrow. Do you envision this being another separate deposit or could it be just part of one massive deposit? >> I think what we've seen today geologically, it's this the mineralizing event of Arrow PC is the same mineralizing event. Basically, there's been a significant mineralizing event in the area. These deposits are hosted in the cracks in the ground. Um and uh I'd say even broader regionally you you see Patterson Lake South. Um I think that's all part of the same mineralizing event. >> As you're aware, James, we uh started drilling in 2014. We found Arrow with the first drill hole within a 4 1/2 km radius. We've now hit PCE 3 and a half km within that 4 and 1/2 km radius. And uh we got a lot more drilling to go just in and around arrow to really understand the true extent of mineralization let alone testing the next eight parallel conductor corridors on our rook one project. So um geologically we are just on the on the absolute beginning of it. >> Leah I want to get your views on another topic al together and one of the newest members of the world nuclear association is Microsoft. Yeah, >> and that's been well publicized. And I'm just kind of curious to hear your views on this. We saw a lot of strategic investors enter the lithium sector. GM for example, they made a huge investment in one of the largest uh lithium deposits in the US. Do you see that sort of thing happening within the uranium sector where we might get a large tech company coming in? And >> I think it's certainly possible and look Microsoft joining the organization like what a wonderful development and um you know, all these data centers aren't going to work unless they're powered by nuclear energy, which is so heavily reliant on the fuel. Um, we've seen that in other industries. I think it's it's very uh possible that we may see that. Um, you know, congratulations to Microsoft like Bill Gates led the small module actor development. Um, and just such an incredible organization and you know, they're very smart. they they'll know that this doesn't stop with the small mod reactors. It's full fuel cycle that needs to be covered and and I think you that may very well happen as we we saw in the lithium industries and the battery metal industry. So, uh watch that space. >> Well, Leah, I want to thank you very much for spending time with us today and providing an update. I know you have a day chock full of meetings, so I want to keep you once again. Thank you, >> Jim. Thanks, [Music] >> Har. Thank you very much for joining us. You just mentioned that you've been coming to the World Nuclear Symposium for 20 years. >> It is my 20th years this year. Yeah. >> Hard to believe, but I'm curious how things have evolved over those 20 years. >> Uh my hair is grayer, but it's No, it's been You look at the symposium, sure, is the 50th in total. So it is a little bit bigger than it has been before but it really like it's uh the I keep saying it every time we talk but it's like the momentum in this industry and the sort of the optimism. It's it's really something special this year. So it's it's a it's a it's it's a great time to have the anniversary but it also really it goes to show that this industry is really feeling some uh some some tailwinds right now. And uh yeah, it's just exciting to see everybody after a little bit of a break over the summer to have everybody get together and start kick off the fall session essentially. So it's uh no, it's uh it's probably probably the most exciting one so far. So >> and to your point, one of the reasons why it is exciting is because one of the new members of the World Nuclear Association is Microsoft and the WNA has been promoting this fact and maybe you can just speak to that and their entrance into this industry. Yeah, I mean it's normally like, oh, it's the miners, the utilities and and then that's kind of it, right? Then it's like we are alone little corner of the world or industry is a little club. We like to hang out together and we're like a little family. But but now you're starting to have companies like that come in and I think it goes to show that there's it is really a momentous shagnum shift for nuclear energy as a whole. And uh it's like that to see companies like that come in with their with their capacity and their resources. It's uh it's very very exciting to see and it's whether it is that it's uh they're you know they they think it's a little slow the like the the industry itself is growing a little too slow on its own utilities maybe can't ramp up as quickly as uh as they would like as like one of these hyperscalers would like to see. So if they can get involved and kickstart a few things I I welcome them here. So it's it's very exciting. I haven't seen any of them yet but I've been too tied up in meetings but hopefully I can catch one or two of them here. That would be great. So, I want to ask you about the uranium spot market and that's where you spent a lot of your time. And I'm sure you would agree with me when I say 2024 was characterized by a lot of frustration because we had a big pullback and this year it seems to be more stable and maybe you could say it's consolidating and it looks like it's grinding higher. Can you just speak to what you're seeing in the spot market right now and what are your thoughts as we go into year end? Yeah, it was uh it was very quiet in the spring uh and uh it wasn't that much going on and it's kind of everything was in a holding pattern because there was so much uncertainty of is there going to be tariffs, are they going to be sanctions, what's going on in dual political situation uh and then I would say in part much thanks to to Sprat who did a bot deal raise of $200 million that sort of kickstarted a few things back in June and uh and when you are in the market you get a good very good feel for what's around. Uh so that that was a very good uh learning process for us because we've been fairly quiet for some time to kind of see like this is the state of the market. So now we have a much better picture of that and uh and also with the recent news now we have some of the large producers are having some some production issues. Uh and I I think that just goes to show that it's like mining is not easy and uh and it it it's having that those news come out leading into this big sort of start of the fall session. It's I think it's very constructive and and it gets on people's radar screen that you can't take you can't take Iranian supply for granted and then people need to pay attention to it. >> So year to date approximately 32 million pounds of trade in the spot market but in terms of liquidity how hard is it to acquire a half a million pounds or a million pounds? I mean, it was perhaps easier than we thought even in in June, but it has been because it was quiet for some time and there's some sort of chunkier pockets that were lying around and I think that surprised well us first when we when we found it, but it's also then it surprised the rest of the market. So then you saw a lot of material coming in as a as a result of that. But I would say that chunk is cleared out now. So it's it's a much more of a balanced uh balanced market today. Uh there's that was only one buyer in June. that was us and now there's a few ones around as well. So, it's a it's a much more uh more balanced spot market and I and I think yeah to buy half a million pounds today I think you could you could find it but uh but the price won't stay where it is. >> And what's your sense about the floor? Uh do you think the low7s is a floor for the uranium price? >> It depends on on you know the dynamics at any given day. if someone decides to dump a bunch of spot stuff in the market and no buyers is around. But I would still say like anything with the six in front of it, I think there's a row of utilities that would pick it up and uh and after spending a couple of days here and just feeling how investors are thinking about the space too after the announcement of the uh of the production issues, I think anyone would pick them up as well. So it's uh I I find it hard to see that we would have a big pullback at this point anyway. And it's uh yeah and then going forward exactly where it will go that yeah depends on a few different factors but it's uh but I would certainly say there's a lot more upside and downside. No doubt. >> So let's talk about the term market and it's been really quiet this year. Approximately 45 million pounds have been contracted year to date. What's your sense there and why has it been so quiet? Yeah, that's a that's a good I would say it was correct uh for the first few months of the year uh that it was very very quiet but then after that there's been there's been a fair number of fees and I would say reporting is on a voluntary basis so you don't have to report if you don't want to and I can certainly understand if you're a utility and you have a lot of uranium to buy you don't want to signal it because now they're aware that this that's a number that investors really look at so if they're starting to signal we're buying a lot of uranium, oh contracting activity is up, a lot of investors are going to pile in and while it might not affect the term market itself, it will affect the spot price and the spot price in turn will affect your floors and ceilings that you're negotiating. So they're probably being a little bit more coy about it, how much they actually are contracting and it doesn't seem like the the 40 whatever the 4045 million pound whatever that is doesn't really jive with the activity that we have seen. Uh so I would not be surprised if the number is actually quite a bit higher but we just don't know exactly what that is. Uh but there is some reporting after the fact that can happen. So that's when you had a you had three utilities come out for three US utilities come out for RFPs uh in July which normally is a very quiet month and uh you add up the combined volume of those RFPs versus what both reported contracted at the end of the month and the reported number was much higher. So that to me says that they actually accepted several offers. So it again it's just like it's a very opaque market and it's getting even more opaque which I understand is frustrating for a for an investor but if you're a utility and you have a significant amount of contracting to do I don't necessarily blind. So it's so just that's something we're going to have to live with. So that number is probably not something that's worth staring yourself blind at. So it just adds some opakqueness to it, even further opakqueness, which is hard. But I also think investors who are here on the ground talking to active companies and traders, at least the ones I've spoken to so far, come away very, very constructed. >> So we saw a large RFP from the Koreans, 8.8 million pounds over 10 years with a floor of $65 and a ceiling of $101. Do you think those terms are >> they're not even escalated? So, I would say I was at a lunch yesterday and I was I was quoting these numbers and I was I saw a row of producers sitting in the uh in the audience and I like I can't see any single one of you guys sending in a compliant offer in that process and I saw a lot of head nodding. So, we'll see. I mean, I never say never, but I really would be surprised. >> So, those terms are totally unrealistic >> to me. I mean, if I was a producer and I had the available pounds to buy to bid into it, I would certainly not send in a compliant offer. So what happened two years ago in a similar process when they came out that was when the market was running from the symposium onwards they had exactly the same situation they stipulated these are the terms you have to abide to in order to be compliant they got no compliant bids so they basically had to close their fee reissue it with higher levels same thing happened again the market moved away from them no one sent in compliant offer they they repeated this process three times and they ended up contracting in January as as opposed to September, October. And obviously, it hurt them because the the spot market itself moved from 55 or 60 up to over 100. So, I'm not saying it's going to be in exactly the same repeat this time, but they're running the risk of uh of having a somewhat similar situation. >> So, last year we saw 106 million pounds contracted in the turn market. Do you think we're going to hit 100 million pounds this year? >> I think we will. And whether that number is going to be reported or not, that remains to be seen. But I feel pretty confident that uh yeah, there is definitely activity going on and the utilities that I met with too saying that they're preparing to get ready to issue them whether it's going to be Q4 or slide into Q1, but there well I think we'll see we'll see a handful of uh handful of utilities in the next few months here come in with RFPs. So you're meeting with a lot of investors and also utilities and I'm curious what are you hearing in these meetings? You spent a lot of time with John Chaveveli of SPRAT but maybe you can give us some feedback and color on on the meetings you're attending. >> Yeah, it was a it was a sort of a one-day conference with a with a bunch of investors sort of half hour speed date meetings and uh but it's similar questions. What are we missing? Uh what's the bare scenario? We get the bull scenario and it's like every single one is asking what can go wrong. uh and you know you don't want to come across as too big of a cheerleader but it is really really hard to come up with what is it and it's like everybody had sort of a nuclear accident but that's you know they're not very likely it's uh so I disregard that case >> you really struggle to come up with something or you can see a major economic down global economic downturn but then you know that it's not just uranium or nuclear energy that get affected in that case we have bigger problems so it it's really hard to come up with something and I think people starting to realize iz that too that the downside risk is is so low compared to the upside that it's this space is starting to get quite exciting for for generalist investors not just the contrarians that were in there early on I think they moved on already some of them are actually looking at potentially coming back but uh but it's uh but it's more now the really big generalist funds so it's so it's quite exciting from that perspective the same time on the utility side also very exciting that one they've taking care of their enrichment and their conversion needs because that's obviously forced to do so with the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Now they're starting to put their attention to uranium itself, but they also have very exciting new build plans. And the and these are uh these are plans that aren't necessarily the investment decisions aren't taken yet, but they uh they certainly plan for it. And this is something, you know, a 10-year project or whatever it might be, but it's uh every single one they're they're starting to have plans. So, it's like it's they have their their work cut out for them, but at least it's a very exciting challenge to have like that. We get to build something new. We don't have to worry about how to cut this thing down or transport it or decommission it. We're actually worrying about how do we build it new or how do we restart it even or how do we extend the lifetime. So, it's uh just sort of gives an overall feel how it's the industry is in a very healthy place. So Pier, as we wrap up, I'm going to put you on the spot now. Pardon the pun, but the spot price is trading in the mid70s. Where do you see it trading at the end of the year? >> Wow, that's a good one. I'm like, you know, because it always going to come back and bite me, and I'm not not a >> That's why I'm forecaster, but uh I'll stick my chin. I'll probably say it's gonna >> Yeah, it might even start with a nine. Say certainly 85 plus. I I'll I'll go there. not nearly bullish enough. >> I I'm I'm careful. So I like there could be more bullish people than me. People do a great job being bullish, but I like I'm a I'm a little more measured. I put put it more as a low like a conservative case. >> And Pier, as we wrap up, you have spoken with a lot of people at the conference in the last couple of days, but any other insights you want to share? >> No, it's just that it's uh it feels constructive. It feels positive. It doesn't feel sort of hyped up. Uh it just feels like no this is uh it's really the rubber hitting the road. It's like it's uh the the the fires that was put out are put out when it comes to other concerns about the fuel cycle and now it's like it's really time to worry about uranium and not just near-term uranium but what's happening five years from now, 10 years from now. So that sort of that fundamental momentum is building up which is I think it's just healthy and it's about time. So, >> so I'm glad you brought that point up because I spoke to somebody here and uh they were saying they sat in a lot of meetings and one of the points they made was everybody's talking about nuclear reactors and nuclear energy. No one's talking about uranium. >> Mhm. And yeah, they think they need to worry about like where where are the new mines. I mean, nextgen is the one big, you know, standout in this and it's a huge mine and but it's not just a matter of if it's coming online. It's like it we need it. It needs to come online and it it needs to be in if not 30 then 31 or whatever it's going to be. But wait, like we need it. The industry needs it and it's a very big one, but that's not going to be enough. We're going to need more than that one. And and those those assets that they're not coming online at 75 bucks, that's for sure. >> Well, Pier, I want to thank you very much for spending time with us. I know you got a full day of meeting, so I don't want to keep you any longer. Once again, thank you. >> Thanks a lot, Jamie. [Music] Dustin, thank you very much for joining us today. We have a lot to discuss in a short period of time, so I want to get at it and I want to read a little section from your recent press release, which was based on the 2026 production strategy. And I quote, "The company does not view the current market developments to be sufficient to return to the company's initial 100% levels at this time, which are now being decreased by roughly 8 million pounds, cutting about 5% of the world's primary supply. So when I look at these numbers that's quite significant to me but maybe you can just elaborate on why the cut in production. >> Yes. Hi James. Uh happy to see you as usual. Uh with regards to production basically we're still uh there is still a lot of internal work a lot of discussions negotiations we're having sim simultaneously with our partners. Uh yes, we said in our uh press release statement that uh we don't view market conditions sort of uh they are inviting enough right now. All the fundamentals are in place. So maybe it's not the market conditions uh I should have said otherwise it's more to do with the willingness of market participants to commu to commit basically and I guess we need to see more action on their behalf. This is something we would like to see not only interest but action >> and maybe you can elaborate on that. When you say action what exactly do you mean? I'm assuming you're referring to price. Well, I hope after this uh this WA the commercial team is going to be busy for a couple of months that will uh indicate that uh everything was according to plan and uh everything went well. >> So you touch on an interesting point because year to date only 45 million pounds have been contracted and we only have three months left in the year. Do you anticipate a lot of action happening in the last three months of the year? Are we gonna be able to go from 45 million pounds up to maybe 100 million pounds? >> I certainly hope so. I hope so. And uh >> from what I was have been hearing with uh from our commercial team, there's actual uh there's actual indication that certain concrete concrete steps will be taken. So uh as I said, I have very high hopes. But then again, we had same expectations last year. they never came into life and there were certain milestones in terms of was like everyone was expecting certain surges in contracting and uh nothing happened after uh when I say nothing I mean nothing on a big scale or nothing nothing to the level that uh the community was uh anticipating let's put this way so uh WNA last year >> NEI last year and when we were talking about uh taking some concrete measures I also think that certain action needs to be taken on behalf of uh new bills. Oh, it's been a year now since the net zero initiative has been signed. Almost a year in last September in New York, we've seen where 14 major financial institutions pledged their support. Uh I guess now is the time to actually start building for once someone starts I think everyone else will follow. So that will keep the momentum going. It's almost like there's this sense of hope within the industry with the fuel buyers. They're hoping more supplies is going to come online. They're hoping geopolitical situations are going to change. Um what's your assessment of that? >> Even if geopolitical situation will change, I guess uh certain issues that are associated with over reliance on foreign supply uh and the complications that are arising from that they'll be addressed either way. So uh I guess it is safe to say that we're going to see certain measures aimed to increase domestic capacity within the US especially to do with we've heard the news recently and the enrichment side as well I guess >> certain measures will be taken in that direction all in all but uh with the growing number of new bills coming from Asia namely China uh it is obvious that there will be enough room for everyone in the market. It's just like uh I guess everyone should step up and uh >> basically start uh securing either their supply or their sales depending on which side you're on. >> I want to ask you about sulfuric acid. In the past, this has been an issue. You have two producing plants. You're building a third one. Maybe you can just give us a sense of how that is going and when we can anticipate production from that new plant. >> We expect uh the third plant to be fully ramped up and operational by the end of first quarter of 2027. Uh the deadline's been shifted already. So I guess everything that could have happened and prevented this uh happening on time already did. So I don't anticipate any further changes to to the transfaction production schedule. >> A big part of your job is speaking with investors and I know you've been totally jammed this week. Every day you got five to 10 meetings set up. What what sort of feedback are you hearing from these investors? Uh it depends it depends on the investor profile specific but usually those who are familiar with the company those who have been following us for long they ask some random odd questions sometimes not even associated with the current state of affairs cuz they understand the business well enough. They understand the changes in our figures performance figures indicators and uh they themselves they know the explanation. So uh sometimes they just confirm their own uh judgment as if to say and uh I was really surprised by the in-depth knowledge of certain traits of that are attributable to Kazakhstan in general that shows a deep sense of understanding and uh involvement analysis and it's really nice people know about sulfuric acid about uh some production materials in Kazakhstan more than we do and it's it's really surprising. >> So, we touched on the 2026 production strategy. We also touched on sophoric asset. You gave us some feedback on um some of the meetings you're having with investors and also on the utility side. Any other insights you want to share about your meetings that you've had this week in London? Well, uh, the funny thing, everyone talks about the second nuclear renaissance, but at times I hear people saying, "Well, it's not the second one. It's in fact, in fact, it's the third one, you know." And, uh, one gentleman I heard saying, "Well, it's the fourth one, in fact." And I guess he's seen them. Uh, in general, it's obvious that uh, the interest remains strong and, uh, the number of attendees is increasing. Um certainly once again I'm really happy to see you here and >> I think you're doing a great job in uh exposing the coverage of the industry overall. >> So you have been with Kazataprom since 2016. You've been coming to this symposium since 2022. What changes have you noticed in the last few years since you started coming here? Well, the overall sense of optimism, uh the outlook, the number of attendees, uh the profile of attendees. You see, previously that'd be more uh say focused group of those who are within the industry whereas now you see a lot of uh external people who are becoming part of the industry. So I guess it's somewhat apparent that this constance is a major success and going on forward its importance and prominence is only going to increase. >> We have some of the world's largest investment firms here now. >> Excellent. This is a very positive and uh encouraging news. >> Well Dustin, that was a great overview and I want to thank you very much for spending time with us today. I know you have a full day of meetings and you got to get at them. So once again, thank you. >> Thank you James. Pleasure. [Music]

Investing in Nuclear Energy & Uranium – World Nuclear Symposium 2025 – Bloor Street Capital

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