Gold Hits Historic $4,000: Brace For War, Says Investor | Clem Chambers
Summary
Gold and Geopolitical Tensions: The podcast discusses the surge in gold prices, hitting $4,000, attributed to geopolitical tensions, particularly the US-China trade conflict, with gold viewed as a hedge against war.
Market Bubble Concerns: Clem Chambers expresses concerns about a potential market bubble, noting the rapid rise in prices of gold, silver, and other assets, which could lead to a boom-bust cycle.
Alternative Assets: Bitcoin is highlighted as a "flight" asset, used for transferring wealth quickly in times of crisis, while silver is described as a "fast horse" that follows gold's lead in price movements.
Economic Policies and Inflation: The discussion touches on the US government's monetary policies, including cash injections and bond market interventions, which could influence inflation and asset prices.
Defense Stocks as Investment: With rising global tensions, defense stocks, particularly in the US and Europe, are seen as potential investment opportunities, reflecting increased military spending and geopolitical conflicts.
AI and Technological Advancements: The podcast mentions the transformative impact of AI, likening it to the internet boom, and suggests that AI-related investments could offer significant growth opportunities.
Investment Strategy: Clem Chambers advises focusing on strategic metals and commodities, like copper, that are crucial for technological advancements and industrial growth, as part of a broader investment strategy.
Transcript
If you think about it with my idea that gold is for war, if you think in gold is for war, Trump gets in, declares trade war with China, boom, up it goes. What happens when something goes too fast? Well, it's called a bubble. Boom, bubble, bust. Up like a rocket, down like a rock. The economic outcome of that is you know a weaker dollar inflation going for growth and all the sort of interventions you're seeing with Intel with Mountain Pass. You know that is all about America versus China. Gold hit $4,000 for the first time in history. Silver is almost at $50 an ounce. Bitcoin is now above 121. It's come down a bit today on the 7th of October. We'll talk about uh what's next for these alternative assets and what's next for stocks. Are we in a market bubble all around? Clem Chambers joins us. He is the founder of a new FN. And Clem has been on the show several times. Check out our last interview with Clem link down below. Good to see you again, Clem. Very good time to be talking to you. Thank you. Well, we've been calling it me and you for the last few times we've been on or in fact, you know, for for months and months now. And here we are, you know, gold heading towards 5,000, silver heading towards $100 an ounce. And um to be honest with you, it's scaring the living daylights out of me. Why? Why? Why is it What do you mean it's scaring the living daylight daylights out of you? Shouldn't you be celebrating? Shouldn't you be pulling out your branding and champagne? Well, you know, I can drink my fine clarret for sure, but you know, it's it's going too fast. I mean, you know, this is I mean, my my premise, as your viewers will remember, is gold is for war. Well, you know, I'm talking about a slow plot up the mountain of tension, not a sudden rush into the apocalypse. And you know, if gold is for war is the thing, and all of a sudden, gold starts to go vertical. I mean, it was going vertical, but now it's gone vertical and silver's gone vertical. And you know, palladium is is gone vertical and palladium palladium is not under sanction from Russia because America can't do without it. So then put sanctions on platinum and palladium because it's a vital metal and there's only three places that make it. America, uh, South Africa and Russia and palladium. So you know, gold going through the roof, silver going through the roof, palladium going through the roof. you know, it's um if you believe gold is for war, you've got to be, you know, starting to shake in your boots like I am. Fortunately, and Bitcoin, of course, Bitcoin is for flight. Bitcoin's been doing that, but fortunately, it came down 3,000 bucks in the last couple of hours. And I, you know, feel a little bit relieved cuz if that had gone straight to 30,000, I think I'd be digging a trench. How much sooner did gold reach $4,000 than you may have expected initially? In other words, if let's say there wasn't any chaos or war happening around the world, when would normally be your expectation for when gold would hit this current level? Okay. So, so when you're in a rally, it goes at sort of like a 45°ree. When you're in a boom bubble, something bad's happened. It goes vertical. It's going vertical. And if you plotted gold from when I went, oh, look, it's broken out, which was 2000, whatever it was, I'd expect it to go at 45°, not at vertical. And so, you know, I would say I'd be looking at gold to be at 5,000 by the end of the Trump administration. Well, it could be by Christmas at this rate. So, if you think, and I've been saying it, my theory is gold is for war. That's why countries keep it. All the countries are buying it to put it in their warehouse just in case the worst happens. That makes the price go chunk chunk chunk chunk chunk chunk. Well, the moment it does that, either other things are happening which you haven't thought about or you know bad things are on the way. So that's why I'm I'm not very happy at the moment even though I'm coining it. So the only thing is David is that you could think about the the US government shutdown that all that makes people worried that makes them worried that the dollar will be um going down that there's all sorts of um reasons to run for cover and you run for cover in precious metals. And so that's one way of explaining it. But you know, America's gone through shutdowns on numerous occasions before and they're not really shutdowns anyway. They still pay the social security. The soldiers still march. Most of the offices are still open. Yes. You know, um, Smokeoky Bear in Yellowstone is you had to, you know, take a day off. But, you know, it's not such a massive big deal because it it's happened so many times now. So, you could put it down to that. Now, what you can also put it down to is the Treasury is obviously printing like crazy and it's doing it because it held back cash before the shutdown because they it always does because it saw it coming and it's you don't have to be a genius to work out it was. And then it flushes the system with cash. It's also, if you look at the bond curve, looks like they're monetizing the short end. I when a shortterm bond comes up, they're not replacing it with a new bond um at the short end. They're just handing out cash and the cash goes into the system. The banks literally have a real-time feed of seeing that money coming down the pipe and and they take it and give it to people who want to put it into risk assets and they do it themselves as well. So that puts a bit of upward pressure on things like gold, things like silver, things frothy assets like Bitcoin and the stock market and you you're seeing that. So you could put it down to that. Finally, rather than the fallsman of the apocalypse, you could put it down to retail FOMO. Now retail is getting FOMO because the price has moved so far. The sort of people that say, "Oh, my next door neighbor bought a new car because he had silver and he bought it at, you know, $2 an ounce and sold it at 45. Oh, I need some of that action." And that FOMO, which is the curse of the private investor often because, you know, they have short-term joy and then have long-term grief. That FOMO I think is now starting to be underway, but it could run a long long way that. So anyway, I I I I wish it would go slower. What happens when something goes too fast? Well, it's called a bubble. Boom, bubble, bust. Up like a rocket, down like a rock. And I I don't see that for gold. Let Let me just push back slightly, Clay. I'm not disproving your point. I'm just trying to No, no. Sure. Sure. Make another point here. We could have said the exact same thing a year ago when gold was at not even a year ago, $3,000 and it climbed 50% from 2,000 to 3,000. We're only having this conversation now at 4,000. I mean, what's to say this is in the first inning of a multi-year bubble and this isn't the bubble at all? I I I don't know. I'm just speculating. Absolutely nothing. Absolutely nothing. I I I like to draw my voodoo lines on the chart and and you know, originally I saw $35,000 cuz in that breakout I did my voodoo and it said $3,000 and a few months went by and I did a bit more voodoo and it said $45,000. Um and now it's more like $5,000. And so yes, I see a top at $5,000. But if gold is for war, gold at $5,000 is a pretty scary signal. But yes, I mean another thought is well if gold is at this price now and and most people aren't even thinking in those terms. Yeah, I mean there's terrible things going on in in the Ukraine. Yeah, you they Pakistan and India had a bit of a punch up. Yes, it's, you know, pretty awful in Israel and and they blow up Iran and all that, but you know, it's it it's not the big one. And the big one is US versus China. And everything you're seeing is US versus China. Well, what's the price of gold then? I mean, it's it doesn't I can't even get wrap my head around that one. So, you've got this situation where it could really really really really run. But then you're getting into, you know, a fog of the unknown that is so thick, it's very hard to guess what to do. And, you know, right now it's just running hard. And I that that you know, I literally spent a large chunk of this weekend. and I'm on holiday in Greece, but I still spent a large part of this weekend trying to work out other explanations for these fast price moves, these fast markets that wasn't something awful. And you know that the three things I said earlier were the best that I could come up with and it's still not not satisfying to me. What do you make of the fact that maybe gold's pricing against something awful or apocalyptic happening in the world, but uh the stock market isn't? Certainly the NASDAQ isn't. S&P's at all-time highs and so is the NASDAQ. Yeah, but that's that's a function of liquidity and you know what this conflict this USChina conflict and there is a conflict is just at a high level at the moment. It's at a trade level um and is also at the pinnacle level of of things like ideas and education. That's where there's a a conflict going on. I could say war. It is a kind of war. information war is going on and and it hasn't gone down into the lower levels, industrial war, land war, right? So, we we're not down there yet. But the solution to this conflict um as far as America's concerned is America re-industrializing and being a a work workshop of the world again rather than it being China that's the workshop of the world. and and the tension you're seeing is America can't make a lot of this stuff that it needs to make to be the workshop in the world. That's why it's um investing in all these primary um critical mineral people because if you can't get rare earth, you can't make chips, if you can't get, you know, strontium, you can't make strontium. Sorry, I was thinking of a different metal. If you can't get all these critical min minerals, you can't make fighter planes, you can't make submarines. So, that is where the conflict is at the moment. And of course, you've got to flush your your country with money to re-industrialize. You've got to have a weaker currency to re-industrialize. But the the conflict is there. The economic outcome of that is, you know, a weaker dollar, inflation, going for growth, and all the sort of interventions you're seeing with Intel, with Mountain Pass. You know, that is all about America versus China. But if gold is already at $4,000 an ounce because of global tension, America versus China being the ultimate global tension, I mean, it's it's a very very very very um volatile situation we find ourselves in. All right. So, let's let's uh let's talk about where this could go. So, um this kind of aligns with what you said earlier. Goldman Sachs predicting $4,900 by the end of this year. Sorry, the end of next year, December 2026. $4,900 gold. Uh previously they targeted $4,300 by the end of next year. So they've upgraded their forecast somewhat. Uh you you were saying what $5,000 by next year. But yeah, but I mean they could they're probably drawing the same lines on the same voodoo chart as I am. But at the way it's going um it's almost them hedging their bets say the end of next year. I mean it but that's not the shape of the chart right now. It's right vertical. I mean, you could be looking at weeks at at the trajectory that's going on. Now, of course, when the markets get hot, that's when they pull back. And of course, you go up vertical, you pull back, you go sideways, you go up vertical, you repric, you go up vertical. That is one way that markets work. But, you know, that that chart is and there's quite a few charts out there in very different places where it's been doing that suddenly boom up. It's gone in a straight line. You've seen that in European defense stocks. I mean, that's not good, is it? You're seeing it in the precious metals. You're seeing it in in various places. Um, you're starting potentially to see it in oil. So, you know, there's a lot of of of pressure in assets going on now. And the obvious answer is, of course, a weakening dollar. But, you know, that is the oldfashioned way of looking at it. Oh, well, it's the dollar, it's the end of the dollar, dolorization, blah blah blah blah blah. I mean, that's so old. But and that's been going on for so long. Didn't affect gold and silver then. Oh, inflation makes gold and silver go up. Didn't do it in 2020 and 2021 and 2022, did it? And now all of a sudden, and if you think about it with my idea that gold is for war, if you think in gold is for war, Trump gets in, declares trade war with China, up it goes. And so, so that my thesis that gold is for war, Bitcoin is for flight matches what we're seeing. So, if I'm right, and I don't I hope I'm not, frankly, if I'm right, and this price keeps going like that, you know, something wicked this way comes. By the way, just slightly off topic, uh, Japan's 30-year bond is now at the highest level ever. Uh, this comes after they voted in Sai Takai. I apologize to the Japanese if I pronounced that mis mispronounced that. But it's a new prime minister that's set to take office uh this month. He is a hardright conservative, someone who's seen as a proponent of abnomics, the economic strategy of the late prime minister Shinszo Abbe, which touted fiscal spending. It's a she David. It is. Okay. Well, my apologies again. Uh fiscal spending, loose monetary policy, and structural reforms. And so with the coming of a new prime minister, uh bond vigilantes according to this article are now revoling and selling bonds driving up the yields. Could this put uh further pressure on the dollar if uh the JGB yields go up and um by default potentially uh capital flight will go to higher yielding places? Well, um, if you think that the Japanese bond yield is going to go up and keep going up, then you don't want Japanese bonds. And if you actually look at their interest rates, I I don't know what they are off the top of my head, but it's like 1.8% or 2%. It's like half of what's in America. So, they've got plenty of room to increase their interest rates to a more European and American level. And I, you know, I I think that that's probably what they would probably want to do because they too need to devalue the yen and that they've done that. Now, where they're going to hold that yen is another matter. Now, what you have to understand about the Japanese debt, which is what everyone worries about, 260% of GDP, it's all with Japanese. It's not with anybody else. So Japanese hold it and you know I'm sure they'd be quite happy to get a bit more return on their cash than whatever 0.0 or negative interest rates almost like the Swiss had. So I I I don't everybody's always always predicting doom for the Japanese and I I think they kind of know what they're doing. They don't go around telling anybody and they always say how bad they are at everything and how humble they are and how terrible their economy is and you know westerners believe them. But if you walk around Tokyo and look at the streets, you'd be surprised. You wouldn't go, "This is a country in economic problems." All you see is, you know, well turned out people and lots of coffee shops and expensive stores. So, you know, I think it doesn't do to imagine to say it's like, "No, Germany's in a terrible state. Oh dear, Germany's in a terrible state. 3 years ago it was in a great state. Now it's in a terrible state. And Japan, oh, they're in a terrible state. Well, maybe they're doing it on purpose. Maybe they're trying to weaken their currency so that they can have a stronger e economic uh industrial base because to also losing out against um China. So I think that they are devaluing their currency frankly have devalued their currency and will continue to keep it weak and you know they will control the strength and weakness of it um with their interest rate policies and so and they've got plenty of room to make um higher interest rates if they wanted to. That's a contrarian opinion, mind you, but I I I just don't see it's like when they say, "Oh, China um has no room to um to to stimulate it economy." This was a few months ago before they stimulated their economy and now got a runaway stock market. And it's like, well, they haven't got runaway inflation. They haven't even got high inflation. So, they got plenty of room to stimulate their economy in the same way as Japan can because they've got low um inflation. they can stimulate if they want if they wanted to, but they don't. What is your view on the uh 30-year or 10 year the long end of the curve in the US Treasury yields in the US up or down towards 2026? Uh will yields follow inflation? Will they follow inflation expectations? Will they follow economic growth? Or none of the above? The bond yield is a political thing these days and people like the Treasury and and the Fed have as much control over it as they want to have until suddenly they would lose all control. But that's miles and miles and miles away and they can bend that curve and they can twist that curve as much as they want and and and they will again interest rates are coming down in America and therefore bonds are going to bond yields are going to go down and bond values are going to go up and that's that's what's and the dollar is going to go down because if you think about the you know you've got to be a Trump whisperer god forbid and he wants to re-industrial ize America. He wants to bring it all back home. He wants MAGA and all that stuff. Well, that means having a more competitive basic set of industries. And for that, you need a weaker currency. And for that, you need well, you need lower interest rates, right? So people can borrow money and build factories and build shipyards. Well, so lower interest rates, higher inflation, weaker currency, and that's how you get a, you know, very quick acting boom. That's the oldfashioned boom bubble economics and that's what America's going to get and a lot of people are already running from that and you could say that's why gold is running because it's all about the dollar. Well, when you think it's all about competing with China, not necessarily in a very friendly way, then you got the second string of gold going up which is gold is for war. So, you've got these two horses of the apocalypse running and you know, you're starting to see uh disruptive markets um appearing. The Here's another article from CNBC. The shutdown of the government has prevented government data from being released in the labor market. So, we don't have official non-farm payrolls data from the BLS. However, we do have private numbers. Uh we have ADP, for example. Well, the Carla group um is also projecting uh that this month could be pretty weak for uh for for uh for data. Firm said it's proprietary data show job growth of just 17,000 for the month which would be even less than 22,000 gained in August reflected in the Bureau of Labor Statistics data with the BLS shuttered. A data release is suspended until the impass between uh Democrats and uh Republicans are is resolved. Wall Street firms are rushing to provide alternative measures to paint a picture of where the US economy is headed. If it is indeed true, Clen, that the labor market is weakening to this kind of extent. Can we still expect inflation? Um well, I mean, if they print money, you get it. If if you look at inflation, it isn't necessarily um bound to those sort of numbers. when you have a economic dynamic where countries print money and it's it's the printing of money and the monetization of money that creates inflation. So it's your money supply not your employment um situation not not whether you've got high um employment or low employment that's only in a sort of steady state situation old-fashioned situation. And I I don't think we're in an old fashioned situation anymore. I think I think that's gone. We're now into a a new era that's very fluid. The good news is you've got AI. The bad news is you've got NS and I call NS is natural stupidity. And we're seeing plenty of that. And you know they're the two things you've got. You've got this this everinccreasing um drum beat of global stress which is totally unnecessary, totally ridiculous, totally damaging, totally awful. And then you've got this drum beat of everinccreasing technology which hopefully will get us into a good place before the other lot get us in a bad place. But so you've got I mean I think so I understand that lots of companies are are kind of freezing their hiring because they're seeing how much they can replace with AI rather than hiring people. I mean, so that will put pressure on your jobs market and AI could be quite a deflationary thing because if robots are making your sneakers and you don't have to have people in there, you your cost of goods goes down and you know, you get into the situation that imported deflation into America when China was doing it. So, you've got all these disruptive uh influences coming out of AI. Yeah. people spending trillions on on server farms, us running out of energy and copper and all that stuff. That's massively disruptive but potentially massively positive. And then you got this global stress stuff where everybody's trying to be the big I am and you know um which is pushing us towards you know terrible situations. So, and and that is creating market conditions that are very very volatile. And you know, if if you've if you think that Bitcoin could be a million dollars a coin, the answer is correct. If you had runaway inflation in America, I mean, you could have $100,000 beers, you know, like they did in Germany in 29. Not that I think we're going to have that, but I think we've passed a point of stability and we're going into very very chaotic um situations and and entropy is going to go up a lot and and cause all sorts of wild outcomes. And of course, for the trader, that's brilliant. For the investor, that's worrisome. Yes. What about silver? Now, we have to move on to gold. If gold is for war, what is silver for? And why are we seeing $40? By the way, it's it's a price that we haven't seen since 2011. And people are now talking about $50. If gold breaches 50. No. What am I talking about? I am way behind. I'm sorry. I haven't had my coffee yet. I meant $50. We're already at $50. Clen, we're at $47. $48 on silver. That's a price not seen since 2011. And then prior to that, the8s, the early8s. Okay. Okay. And by the way, it didn't stay at $50 for very long in either of those bull cycles. So this is truly historic for silver. Why is silver reacting the way it is? Well, another way, if you want to talk history, there's been a fairly large amount of inflation since then. So that's right. That's right. What does that what does that make the the terminal price? So I I look at I look at silver as as the fast horse. Okay. So, you know, gold starts to move and everyone goes, "Well, what's going on there? I don't understand. And gold's going up. Gold's going. I don't understand. Ah. Oh. Oh. Uh. Oh, maybe central banks are buying it. Maybe countries are buying it. Oh, that's interesting. Ah. Oh, I maybe I need to buy some gold. Oh. Oh, gold's going, going, going. Oh, what about silver? What about silver? Oh, it hasn't really moved much yet. Oh, oh, I think I'll buy some of that. Oh, that's bound to follow gold. And in they go. And then you get the momentum up. And the once the fast source is running, it's running. And it's also what I I I call it retail gold. Yeah. Because if you're a normal Joe and you think, "Right, I want to buy silver." Well, you can obviously go in the market and buy it as ETFs, and that would be a sensible thing to do. But a lot of people go down a coin shop and they'll go, "Ah, show me some gold." And they look at this tiny little bit of gold. And they'll go, "Oh, that's quite expensive. Show me some silver. Oh, I I get a sack for that. Get like, oh, it's only 50. I can get, oh yeah, I can get best part of 80 of those coins for the price of one of those gold ones. I'll have that. Give me a sack of silver. That sounds good." So it's more the retail and of course retail is much more frothy than than institutional. So when silver starts to run, it runs fast and it also can run more. So you could see gold go another $1,000, say for example, and then see silver double. And so in a sense, if gold started to slow, if you wanted to play the trading game, you'd flip into silver and see if it carried on running because it's quite capable of running after gold stopped because, you know, B2G business to government, that's gold. You know, B TOC, that's silver. And then if you want to look even further down into the land of obscurity, you got platinum and palladium, which used to be 1:1, and they're like 3:1 at the moment. I mean, is it three? Yeah, roughly 3 to one. Maybe not 3 to one, two, two and a bit to one to gold. So, they could double just to get par with gold. And so, you know, you've got all these different variables going on like crazy. I mean, another one to think about is I mean, silver is thought of as as very important with the AI revolution. But stop and think about how much is made. 3,200 tons of gold, 25,000 tons of silver. That's eight times. Well, if go if silver was 8 to1 to gold, that would be a wonderful world. Do you think silver could sustain above $50 this time once it breaches that price? I mean, unless unless suddenly peace breaks out and and and um you know, Donald gets his Nobel Prize, um it's going to go go way further. I mean, gold if gold just keeps trundling, well, it's not trundling. gold keeps going the way that it's going or even if it slows down and starts to trundle a bit, it's silver's going to go quite a long wave past this and I mean is it does anybody think it's not going to go smashing through 50? I mean why wouldn't it? I mean you could say well you know gold is toppy now. You could make an argument for that and I wouldn't but you could make an argument for that. Oh you know gold's had its run. it's all good and it's not a it's enough. But it's quite difficult to do so. But if gold just continues to do what it's doing even even at the 45 degrees rather than the 90, you know, silver will run and run and run. And $100 is is I mean, I thought $100 was a stretch only a few weeks ago, but now it seems to me to be a a reasonable projection, a reasonable destination, not a dead. I mean, $50 now there's that's looking like a dead S. Didn't look like a dead S three weeks ago, did it? Do you think that um precious metals will outperform cryptos again in 2026? Um, sorry, I I I that was too vague. Bitcoin in particular. That's okay. That's not That's not too vague because some cryptos did outperform gold and silver by a tremendous amount. But let's just zero in on Bitcoin in particular. Bitcoin I I think and correct me if I'm wrong, I think Bitcoin led gold and silver in its rally in this rally because it already went up 150% or something by the time it reached $100,000 which was late November last year and after it reached $100,000 it's been hovering around that range and it's up only I say only 25 to 30% uh year to date. uh you know it's it's great but most of that rally has already happened and so comparatively speaking it's underperforming the precious metals this year. What about next year? Well, you know I I everyone's been telling me I'm wrong about Bitcoin since I got out in November at 100,000 and as you say it's been hovering now. So there's only one question is is can it go on another leg up? And it's it's almost been hovering for so long it's not even part of that move anymore. And we've seen all this um treasury strategy stuff which is kind of a little bit um surprising and the the amount of racket pro Bitcoin to the moon that that's out there is absolutely stunning and it's kind of trying to get out of its range but it hasn't managed it. It pulled back today you know quite significantly. So I would I'm a bear. I'm a hibernating bear. I mean the the thing is that if very volatile geopolitical stuff kicks off it will it will rocket for sure. But if it doesn't if we carry on doing what we've been doing over the last year at some point there's going to be exhaustion and it's going to get into a crypto winter. And I've been expecting a crypto winter for six months. So I've been I've been wrong about it going down and I've been right about it not going up. So, so I'm a half wrong bear and and I I don't the longer it stays in this range, the less likely it is to make a sudden Bitcoin like break for for the moon. And you know, Bitcoin is all about 10x or 5x or 4x or doubling overnight. It's not about creeping around the place and going up 20%. You can get way more fun than that from Nvidia or Tesla or Amazon or anybody. you know, AMD went up 38% yesterday. I mean, you know, why would the enthusiasm of the speculator is going to be heavily waning if it doesn't start to make a move pretty soon? And I I think it's almost anybody's guess whether it will because it's all down to the NS I spoke to earlier. It's all down to the the natural stupidity of world leaders. What are they doing that is qualifying as stupidity, Clen? Well, they're trying to fight each other, hadn't you noticed? Well, that's been happening since the dawn of dawn of history. Hasn't No, it hasn't. The end of history. Remember that? When the when the war, Russia fell and America volunteered to to help them get rid of all their nuclear weapons and all that good stuff, you know, velvet revolutions and um all that kumbay there was back in the back in the day. I remember it. Uh I why I don't I haven't been around as long as you, Clen. Um Clen, what uh what is your preferred asset right now in this tumultuous time? Geopolitical uncertainty. Gold is for war. There's a plenty of that going around right now. Is gold still the preferred play at $4,000 or do you prefer something else? I'm going to start sweating if it gets into the 4 and a half thousand plus zone and I'll be hanging on I think and if it goes through 5,000 the more it goes up the more I'm going to be sweating when it's near 5,000. Okay. So, you know, trees don't grow to the to the skies as they as they say, which doesn't mean a great deal, but it means that things don't go up forever. And I've had a good run. And I always get out, not at the top, not over the top and back down the other side, but normally about twothirds of the way up. So if I get out of 5,000, it's going to eight. But, you know, I'm I'm I'm worried about the the the velocity of this move, not about the number. So, I'm cool with that. I mean, I am now, I think, moving into American defense stocks because they look like they're starting to run. And you know the defense stocks in Europe have run and uh and in the UK they have run and if you look at Loheed Martin um its recent performance since uh say August. Oh that's an interesting looking chart. I mean you don't often see stocks do that what it's doing which is which is not a big move but it's just going accelerate. And you know that's what I look for in charts. I look for accelerations and you know certain patterns do certain things up like a rocket down like a rock accelerate you know just keep going up like that smooth as silk all those sort of things and I look for those patterns because they tell you about the underlying dynamic driving that market well if you look at Loheed Martin I think they pay a 2.5% dividend I mean give me a break yeah and they're on an 18p when the S&P is on 28 give me a break and all of a sudden and you know everybody Everybody's shouting at everybody and now China's helping Russia fight the Ukrainians and America's going to send cruise missiles. Maybe, maybe not. Oh blah blah blah blah. And then your defense stock starts to do that. Are defense stocks the play right now for you, Clen? Are you anticipating more conflict? They have been in Europe. They have been in Europe because um the American administration told the Europeans to defend themselves while they went to war with China. I mean, they didn't exactly say that, but they might as well have. And bang, up went all the European defense stocks like a blooming rocket. And you're talking about X multiples there. And um that was very good. Yes, I like that. So I'm still positioned there because you know unless um peace breaks out, they're just going to have to gear up. They're they're going to rearm. And a rearmment play is a big deal, right? And if America starts to approach getting toe-to-toe with China and shouting in its face, then they're going to have to rearm or arm even more. And you know the Chinese, I told you this last time, they've got cliff climbing ships that they've got, they've got these boats that come in and they've got these like so they can put put gangways up onto tops of the Taiwanese cliffs because Taiwan doesn't have any beaches. So it's got three beaches. So they're going to have to they have built cliff climbing ships to invade Taiwan. So they've already built the ships. They've already built the equipment. They've already said they're going to do it right now. Hopefully it won't happen, but if it does, you know, Loheed Martin and the likes of that um you know, North Grimman, they're just L3H Harris, they're just going to go ballistic, aren't they? And they're not expensive. 18 PE some of them. Locked I think it's 18. I'm looking at the chart there in disbelief, aren't you? Well, I I I I wonder if it's I wonder what exactly they're pricing in escalation in what in in which in which theater? There's multiple theaters. I mean there's multiple theaters go war going on right now. Unfortunately, the American administration has come out and said pretty much word for word, you know, there's the European theater and there's there's the Pacific theater and and Europe needs to deal with with that and um America's going to deal with Asia. Well, look at that chart. I mean, look at that. Give me a break. What is that? What is that? Yeah. and it's an 18p and it pays a 2% dividend and it's basically pretty much half the price of of um other uh military stocks. And of course all the crazy ones, all the ones that are making drones and and all that all that kind of Ukrainian um stuff um they've all gone completely ballistic. I mean I can't remember the name of of uh Kattos. There you are. If you want another chart that make your eyes water. K R A T O S. Let's take a look at this. Wow. Yeah. Wow. How how much of this is just everything moving at the same time? And that's my other question. Why is everything moving up? No. No. Look, look, in in in April of last year, it was what? It was it's it's up what 200 300% something like that. Oh, that's that's this year. So, it's it's Yeah, it's up 200. Gold is for war. David and year it's up 291%. The S&P is up 14%. Okay. So clearly outperforming. Yeah, there go. Okay. Gold is for war. Drones are for war. Kratos is for drones. Too too spicy for me. That's the sort of stuff that gives me nose beds even looking at the chart. But you know what's it telling you? Yeah. What what what is it telling us? Um it tells you that c certain people think it's important for America to have drones. Clear, present, and needed. That's right. No, that's right. And I'm just Well, it's just it's kind of ironic that the market thinks that defense stocks are are now the play given that Donald Trump's entire administration and his whole platform is deescalation of war. I know he promised us that the Ukraine war would be over uh by his first day in office and uh he promised that uh he would make Benj Benjamin Netanyahu prime minister of Israel stop what's going on in Gaza. By the way, this is the one-year anniversary of the attack in Israel by Hamas on October 7th. So that's still going on. Is it more like two? Two years. Two years. Two years. Yeah, two years. That's what I meant to say. October 7th. So none of these conflicts are, you know, the these are all subjects that I'm not qualified to discuss. But I've forgot to say that that um you know, when your defense or is it war minister stands up in front of Europeans and tells them they've got to, you know, deal with the Eastern front while we've got to deal with the Asian front and then defense stocks explode the next day in Europe. you know what what what conclusion do you come to? What do we do with Bitcoin? Then let's close off on Bitcoin. If if gold and silver are for war, gold in particular, um is Bitcoin also the alternative asset that we need to hide with? Bitcoin is for flight. Yeah. So imagine you are a um somebody um who's been getting a lot of money from Iran for example and all of a sudden you going to have to um do a runner because they're going to kill you and you've still got say a couple hundred million um hanging about um well you you you can't take that to the airport or or jump in a sailboat. Yeah. You got to put it in Bitcoin. You put it in Bitcoin and then you've got it in a smart stick or whatever. You write it on a piece of paper and stick it somewhere and then you can go to the airport, can't you? Or whatever, or get airlifted out. And so if you are were an Afghani minister of theft, if you were um perhaps a very rich uranium thinking he might get bombed by the Americans, if you are a Russian oligarch that thinks you might fall out of a fifth floor window, um you put your money in Bitcoin and you do a runner, don't you? And then if if that's a situation where a few of you like that up goes Bitcoin because you can't really take you know a couple of days worth of billions in demand and then when it all bo comes over it all sorts out it comes back down again. So Bitcoin is for flight. That's my model. Now some people might say Bitcoin is for generational wealth. All you need is a Satoshi and your family will be rich beyond infinity. But you know um its use case the use case of Bitcoin is a um a alternative asset. It's no longer not correlated. So that's no good anymore. But it is very good for flight and you know that is one of its key use cases. Bitcoin is for gambling, right? Uh Bitcoin is for all sorts of nefarious things as well. But a mainstream use is flight and as such it's a very strong haven asset. So if people need a haven asset that's highly mobile then Bitcoin will will go up and when people need it less it will go down. The notion that we're in a bubble this is something we've discussed back in July when you were on my show. Uh you you said that we could be entering a bubble phase where I think you were referring to the stock markets. What do you think now? I mean just today uh AMD is up 40% on the news that it's partnering with Nvidia. Sorry not Nvidia uh with uh Open AI. The Open AI AMD partnership has boosted the price from 169 to 210. And so yeah, and just in a matter of one day we've got that. I'm not saying it's a bubble. I'm just saying that if we were in a bubble in the summertime, well things are looking even more frothy now. Jeff Bezos himself has even said that uh the um uh the um AI space right now is looking like an industrial industrial bubble. Yes, server farms in space. Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, yeah, he's also right. Now, what he said about that is that this is a this is a dot bubble, too. However, what you have to think about is what year? 2001, 2000, 99, 98, 97, 96, 95. It's somewhere in there. And I think it's probably got a year or so to run, maybe more. I mean, the thing about the internet, that was a big deal. Okay, a big big deal. But AI is 10x that. It's is it's so much more of a big deal. I I was one of those internet.com um successful um.com boomers. I mean, I had a com boom company that went from, you know, uh 10p to2 pound50 in 4 days. So, I know all about that run. And he's right. There will be mass casualties in the AI field. And out of that will come absolutely Goliath companies for sure. That's absolutely going to happen. However, where are we? If we're in the end of 1999, you want to be selling. But if it's 1997, there's a long way to go. And again, we're not in a vertical in the NASDAQ. A bubble goes vertical like gold looks right now. Gold looks quite quite bubbly. Yeah. It goes up, it breaks up, it starts to go crazy, and then the final part of it is absolute vertical. I don't think we're in the vertical yet, but I think we're probably in the beginning phase of we're not no longer in a in a boom. We are now at the beginning phase of a bubble, but it could be 18 months, could be 18 weeks, it's certainly not going to be 18 years. Google noted that uh searches for AI bubble have fallen a bit. So here's interest over time worldwide, the term AI bubble. Um you can see it's diminished somewhat. They even wrote an article on um online about how the uh the bubble um the bubble in people searching for AI bubble has burst meaning people are no longer as concerned as before. Uh is this reminiscent of 1999 or is this just does this simply mean that u the concern is no longer relevant and the bubble that we've all been talking about really was just a fickman of our imagination? CL the only person that rings the bell at the top of a bubble is me. Okay. And then everybody will tell me what an idiot I am. How I will enjoy being poor. And when everybody's saying it's a bubble, it isn't. And when everybody say it isn't, it is. And when everybody says it's going to go down forever, it's the bottom. And when everybody says it's going to go to the moon, it's the top. That is the law. Would Would you characterize yourself as a contrarian, Clem? Yeah, definitely. Oh, I'm so contrarian. It's painful. That's why I get this stuff early. That's why I come to you and say, "This is going to happen, David." And it does. I'm not like some of your other guests that predict the past. What do you mean predicting the past? Well, it's much much harder to predict the future than the past. So, a lot of people prefer to predict the past. Give us give us give us one more insight about the future, Clen. Something we haven't talked about. We'll close off here. Well, I mean, I think that uh it's going to get harder and harder to predict what's going to happen because volatility is going to go up and up, but the dollar's coming down. People are going to be running away from the dollar, but trying to keep their dollars. So, there going to be a lot of hedging going on. Uh there's going to be a lot of of of stuff happening. Okay, let's put it another way. The US versus China is a big hairy deal. Work out for yourself what's going to make you money there because you might need it when you head for Chile, right? And then the other one is AI is a massive, massive, massive, massive big hairy deal. And if you can pick up the right winner, the right area that no one's thinking of, and there's loads of them out there right now, you can stake them out and get in early and and you'll make a fortune. Let me give you an example. I mean, well, copper is a perfect example. There's just not enough of it. But what about people that make copper cables? Is that a good um investment or a bad investment? And I I was looking at all the big cable makers that make cables for server farms. The trouble is obviously they're going to have to buy copper and they're going to have all these orders and copper's going to go for the roof. So their margins are going to go like that. So maybe not a great investment. So you know there's going to be demand for commodities, strategic metals like there's never been before. There's going to be demand for certain things that are just going to spin people's heads. They're going to bowl the oceans. So, what assets, what companies do you want to be long off because it nobody knows totally yet? And and the full implications of this is only starting to dawn on people. And it's just such a massive thing. It's like when they invented the steam engine. It's it's like that, but it's also going to be at an accelerated pace. The big stocks in the good old days were the railway stocks. It all came from the steam engine, steam power, railways, railways was massive. You know, the Vanderbilt and Fortune was built on on the back of it, for example. And you know, that is the situation we're in now. There's been a moment of a breakthrough in in science and technology, which is AI. And that is going to do for humanity what artificial muscle did for us. It's got this is artificial brain which is a 10x for that even. So it's a 10x and a 10x. It's like you know that's what you've got to be focusing on finding things that will be on that rocket ship. Copper is one. Yeah. I I copper has gone up uh a bit. it it um since August since the big price adjustment on the COMX in August. We will follow up with copper in another time. I'm just going to close on this note and maybe you can respond to that. This feels to me a lot like 2021 where pretty much everything was going up, but bond yields are um bond yields have come down slightly. The 10-year yield has come down slightly. So, bonds are doing quite well this year as well. So, it just just it it feels like anywhere you go, you put money anywhere, you're going to make money. And I don't know if that's a good thing or bad thing right now. It's normally a sign of the end, but I don't think it's everything going up, but the certain No, absolutely not everything. But I'm just took I'm talking about the major asset classes that I've Yeah. I mean, we are in we are we are in a a very interesting moment. And as I set off by saying, it's like I it's I find it disconcerting. So you have to be, you know, either buy and hold and buy the dip and not you watch your show, David, or you have to be like us, which is always trying to work out what's coming up next. It's what comes up next is where the money is. And you know, I was speaking about gold a long time with you and then platinum and palladium a long time back and defense stocks and copper recently before it started to move. And you know, that's my game and that's your game and I hope your viewers are are having a good time watching us. This is uh has been a great talk. It's it's an important talk on this uh monumental day when gold and silver at our are at both historical levels. So, I appreciate your insights. Clen, tell us where we can find you. Well, you can find me at that thing that's been on the screen the whole time, I hope, which is um on on X Clem CLM Chambers. And you can find me on my new site, which is a newfn.com, which has just released um for you British viewers, free real time. uh prices which is the only free route time prices in the UK that you can get and in due course guys from the states and girls from the states we'll be doing the same with for the American market so you might want to check us out and as I say Forbes I I write regularly on Forbes and of course I appear on this amazing podcast with David as often as they let me on. Absolutely. We'll have you on as often as you are available and I appreciate uh you coming on today. Thank you very much. We'll put the links down below. Make sure to follow CLM on X. His handle is down below. And and YouTube too. I forgot YouTube. David impressed me so much with his channel. I started my own. It's called Clem Chambers Alpha. And I didn't know you when when did you do this, Clem? When did you start this? Oh, a couple of weeks ago. And it seems to be going a little bit ballistic. So we could have we could have let with that news. Clem Clem Chambers. Um what is it called again? I'll put the link down below. It's Clem Chambers Alpha. Clem Chambers Alpha. I like I like the This is it. I like the um profile picture. Did you Did AI do that or is that Did you hire an artist? Is that something? Actually, that that that profile picture was one of the first AI picture making things that came out about three years ago because I'm always like to get there early. And everyone says, "Why do you have that ugly picture there? It's so ugly." But I like ugly pictures of me because, you know, it gets people's attention. If I put a pretty one, no one wants to click on it. Okay. All right. Well, we'll click on you regardless of uh your hair or your uh your profile picture. Everyone, check out his channel. Thank you very much, Clen. Next time. See you later. And thank you for watching. Don't forget to like and subscribe.
Gold Hits Historic $4,000: Brace For War, Says Investor | Clem Chambers
Summary
Transcript
If you think about it with my idea that gold is for war, if you think in gold is for war, Trump gets in, declares trade war with China, boom, up it goes. What happens when something goes too fast? Well, it's called a bubble. Boom, bubble, bust. Up like a rocket, down like a rock. The economic outcome of that is you know a weaker dollar inflation going for growth and all the sort of interventions you're seeing with Intel with Mountain Pass. You know that is all about America versus China. Gold hit $4,000 for the first time in history. Silver is almost at $50 an ounce. Bitcoin is now above 121. It's come down a bit today on the 7th of October. We'll talk about uh what's next for these alternative assets and what's next for stocks. Are we in a market bubble all around? Clem Chambers joins us. He is the founder of a new FN. And Clem has been on the show several times. Check out our last interview with Clem link down below. Good to see you again, Clem. Very good time to be talking to you. Thank you. Well, we've been calling it me and you for the last few times we've been on or in fact, you know, for for months and months now. And here we are, you know, gold heading towards 5,000, silver heading towards $100 an ounce. And um to be honest with you, it's scaring the living daylights out of me. Why? Why? Why is it What do you mean it's scaring the living daylight daylights out of you? Shouldn't you be celebrating? Shouldn't you be pulling out your branding and champagne? Well, you know, I can drink my fine clarret for sure, but you know, it's it's going too fast. I mean, you know, this is I mean, my my premise, as your viewers will remember, is gold is for war. Well, you know, I'm talking about a slow plot up the mountain of tension, not a sudden rush into the apocalypse. And you know, if gold is for war is the thing, and all of a sudden, gold starts to go vertical. I mean, it was going vertical, but now it's gone vertical and silver's gone vertical. And you know, palladium is is gone vertical and palladium palladium is not under sanction from Russia because America can't do without it. So then put sanctions on platinum and palladium because it's a vital metal and there's only three places that make it. America, uh, South Africa and Russia and palladium. So you know, gold going through the roof, silver going through the roof, palladium going through the roof. you know, it's um if you believe gold is for war, you've got to be, you know, starting to shake in your boots like I am. Fortunately, and Bitcoin, of course, Bitcoin is for flight. Bitcoin's been doing that, but fortunately, it came down 3,000 bucks in the last couple of hours. And I, you know, feel a little bit relieved cuz if that had gone straight to 30,000, I think I'd be digging a trench. How much sooner did gold reach $4,000 than you may have expected initially? In other words, if let's say there wasn't any chaos or war happening around the world, when would normally be your expectation for when gold would hit this current level? Okay. So, so when you're in a rally, it goes at sort of like a 45°ree. When you're in a boom bubble, something bad's happened. It goes vertical. It's going vertical. And if you plotted gold from when I went, oh, look, it's broken out, which was 2000, whatever it was, I'd expect it to go at 45°, not at vertical. And so, you know, I would say I'd be looking at gold to be at 5,000 by the end of the Trump administration. Well, it could be by Christmas at this rate. So, if you think, and I've been saying it, my theory is gold is for war. That's why countries keep it. All the countries are buying it to put it in their warehouse just in case the worst happens. That makes the price go chunk chunk chunk chunk chunk chunk. Well, the moment it does that, either other things are happening which you haven't thought about or you know bad things are on the way. So that's why I'm I'm not very happy at the moment even though I'm coining it. So the only thing is David is that you could think about the the US government shutdown that all that makes people worried that makes them worried that the dollar will be um going down that there's all sorts of um reasons to run for cover and you run for cover in precious metals. And so that's one way of explaining it. But you know, America's gone through shutdowns on numerous occasions before and they're not really shutdowns anyway. They still pay the social security. The soldiers still march. Most of the offices are still open. Yes. You know, um, Smokeoky Bear in Yellowstone is you had to, you know, take a day off. But, you know, it's not such a massive big deal because it it's happened so many times now. So, you could put it down to that. Now, what you can also put it down to is the Treasury is obviously printing like crazy and it's doing it because it held back cash before the shutdown because they it always does because it saw it coming and it's you don't have to be a genius to work out it was. And then it flushes the system with cash. It's also, if you look at the bond curve, looks like they're monetizing the short end. I when a shortterm bond comes up, they're not replacing it with a new bond um at the short end. They're just handing out cash and the cash goes into the system. The banks literally have a real-time feed of seeing that money coming down the pipe and and they take it and give it to people who want to put it into risk assets and they do it themselves as well. So that puts a bit of upward pressure on things like gold, things like silver, things frothy assets like Bitcoin and the stock market and you you're seeing that. So you could put it down to that. Finally, rather than the fallsman of the apocalypse, you could put it down to retail FOMO. Now retail is getting FOMO because the price has moved so far. The sort of people that say, "Oh, my next door neighbor bought a new car because he had silver and he bought it at, you know, $2 an ounce and sold it at 45. Oh, I need some of that action." And that FOMO, which is the curse of the private investor often because, you know, they have short-term joy and then have long-term grief. That FOMO I think is now starting to be underway, but it could run a long long way that. So anyway, I I I I wish it would go slower. What happens when something goes too fast? Well, it's called a bubble. Boom, bubble, bust. Up like a rocket, down like a rock. And I I don't see that for gold. Let Let me just push back slightly, Clay. I'm not disproving your point. I'm just trying to No, no. Sure. Sure. Make another point here. We could have said the exact same thing a year ago when gold was at not even a year ago, $3,000 and it climbed 50% from 2,000 to 3,000. We're only having this conversation now at 4,000. I mean, what's to say this is in the first inning of a multi-year bubble and this isn't the bubble at all? I I I don't know. I'm just speculating. Absolutely nothing. Absolutely nothing. I I I like to draw my voodoo lines on the chart and and you know, originally I saw $35,000 cuz in that breakout I did my voodoo and it said $3,000 and a few months went by and I did a bit more voodoo and it said $45,000. Um and now it's more like $5,000. And so yes, I see a top at $5,000. But if gold is for war, gold at $5,000 is a pretty scary signal. But yes, I mean another thought is well if gold is at this price now and and most people aren't even thinking in those terms. Yeah, I mean there's terrible things going on in in the Ukraine. Yeah, you they Pakistan and India had a bit of a punch up. Yes, it's, you know, pretty awful in Israel and and they blow up Iran and all that, but you know, it's it it's not the big one. And the big one is US versus China. And everything you're seeing is US versus China. Well, what's the price of gold then? I mean, it's it doesn't I can't even get wrap my head around that one. So, you've got this situation where it could really really really really run. But then you're getting into, you know, a fog of the unknown that is so thick, it's very hard to guess what to do. And, you know, right now it's just running hard. And I that that you know, I literally spent a large chunk of this weekend. and I'm on holiday in Greece, but I still spent a large part of this weekend trying to work out other explanations for these fast price moves, these fast markets that wasn't something awful. And you know that the three things I said earlier were the best that I could come up with and it's still not not satisfying to me. What do you make of the fact that maybe gold's pricing against something awful or apocalyptic happening in the world, but uh the stock market isn't? Certainly the NASDAQ isn't. S&P's at all-time highs and so is the NASDAQ. Yeah, but that's that's a function of liquidity and you know what this conflict this USChina conflict and there is a conflict is just at a high level at the moment. It's at a trade level um and is also at the pinnacle level of of things like ideas and education. That's where there's a a conflict going on. I could say war. It is a kind of war. information war is going on and and it hasn't gone down into the lower levels, industrial war, land war, right? So, we we're not down there yet. But the solution to this conflict um as far as America's concerned is America re-industrializing and being a a work workshop of the world again rather than it being China that's the workshop of the world. and and the tension you're seeing is America can't make a lot of this stuff that it needs to make to be the workshop in the world. That's why it's um investing in all these primary um critical mineral people because if you can't get rare earth, you can't make chips, if you can't get, you know, strontium, you can't make strontium. Sorry, I was thinking of a different metal. If you can't get all these critical min minerals, you can't make fighter planes, you can't make submarines. So, that is where the conflict is at the moment. And of course, you've got to flush your your country with money to re-industrialize. You've got to have a weaker currency to re-industrialize. But the the conflict is there. The economic outcome of that is, you know, a weaker dollar, inflation, going for growth, and all the sort of interventions you're seeing with Intel, with Mountain Pass. You know, that is all about America versus China. But if gold is already at $4,000 an ounce because of global tension, America versus China being the ultimate global tension, I mean, it's it's a very very very very um volatile situation we find ourselves in. All right. So, let's let's uh let's talk about where this could go. So, um this kind of aligns with what you said earlier. Goldman Sachs predicting $4,900 by the end of this year. Sorry, the end of next year, December 2026. $4,900 gold. Uh previously they targeted $4,300 by the end of next year. So they've upgraded their forecast somewhat. Uh you you were saying what $5,000 by next year. But yeah, but I mean they could they're probably drawing the same lines on the same voodoo chart as I am. But at the way it's going um it's almost them hedging their bets say the end of next year. I mean it but that's not the shape of the chart right now. It's right vertical. I mean, you could be looking at weeks at at the trajectory that's going on. Now, of course, when the markets get hot, that's when they pull back. And of course, you go up vertical, you pull back, you go sideways, you go up vertical, you repric, you go up vertical. That is one way that markets work. But, you know, that that chart is and there's quite a few charts out there in very different places where it's been doing that suddenly boom up. It's gone in a straight line. You've seen that in European defense stocks. I mean, that's not good, is it? You're seeing it in the precious metals. You're seeing it in in various places. Um, you're starting potentially to see it in oil. So, you know, there's a lot of of of pressure in assets going on now. And the obvious answer is, of course, a weakening dollar. But, you know, that is the oldfashioned way of looking at it. Oh, well, it's the dollar, it's the end of the dollar, dolorization, blah blah blah blah blah. I mean, that's so old. But and that's been going on for so long. Didn't affect gold and silver then. Oh, inflation makes gold and silver go up. Didn't do it in 2020 and 2021 and 2022, did it? And now all of a sudden, and if you think about it with my idea that gold is for war, if you think in gold is for war, Trump gets in, declares trade war with China, up it goes. And so, so that my thesis that gold is for war, Bitcoin is for flight matches what we're seeing. So, if I'm right, and I don't I hope I'm not, frankly, if I'm right, and this price keeps going like that, you know, something wicked this way comes. By the way, just slightly off topic, uh, Japan's 30-year bond is now at the highest level ever. Uh, this comes after they voted in Sai Takai. I apologize to the Japanese if I pronounced that mis mispronounced that. But it's a new prime minister that's set to take office uh this month. He is a hardright conservative, someone who's seen as a proponent of abnomics, the economic strategy of the late prime minister Shinszo Abbe, which touted fiscal spending. It's a she David. It is. Okay. Well, my apologies again. Uh fiscal spending, loose monetary policy, and structural reforms. And so with the coming of a new prime minister, uh bond vigilantes according to this article are now revoling and selling bonds driving up the yields. Could this put uh further pressure on the dollar if uh the JGB yields go up and um by default potentially uh capital flight will go to higher yielding places? Well, um, if you think that the Japanese bond yield is going to go up and keep going up, then you don't want Japanese bonds. And if you actually look at their interest rates, I I don't know what they are off the top of my head, but it's like 1.8% or 2%. It's like half of what's in America. So, they've got plenty of room to increase their interest rates to a more European and American level. And I, you know, I I think that that's probably what they would probably want to do because they too need to devalue the yen and that they've done that. Now, where they're going to hold that yen is another matter. Now, what you have to understand about the Japanese debt, which is what everyone worries about, 260% of GDP, it's all with Japanese. It's not with anybody else. So Japanese hold it and you know I'm sure they'd be quite happy to get a bit more return on their cash than whatever 0.0 or negative interest rates almost like the Swiss had. So I I I don't everybody's always always predicting doom for the Japanese and I I think they kind of know what they're doing. They don't go around telling anybody and they always say how bad they are at everything and how humble they are and how terrible their economy is and you know westerners believe them. But if you walk around Tokyo and look at the streets, you'd be surprised. You wouldn't go, "This is a country in economic problems." All you see is, you know, well turned out people and lots of coffee shops and expensive stores. So, you know, I think it doesn't do to imagine to say it's like, "No, Germany's in a terrible state. Oh dear, Germany's in a terrible state. 3 years ago it was in a great state. Now it's in a terrible state. And Japan, oh, they're in a terrible state. Well, maybe they're doing it on purpose. Maybe they're trying to weaken their currency so that they can have a stronger e economic uh industrial base because to also losing out against um China. So I think that they are devaluing their currency frankly have devalued their currency and will continue to keep it weak and you know they will control the strength and weakness of it um with their interest rate policies and so and they've got plenty of room to make um higher interest rates if they wanted to. That's a contrarian opinion, mind you, but I I I just don't see it's like when they say, "Oh, China um has no room to um to to stimulate it economy." This was a few months ago before they stimulated their economy and now got a runaway stock market. And it's like, well, they haven't got runaway inflation. They haven't even got high inflation. So, they got plenty of room to stimulate their economy in the same way as Japan can because they've got low um inflation. they can stimulate if they want if they wanted to, but they don't. What is your view on the uh 30-year or 10 year the long end of the curve in the US Treasury yields in the US up or down towards 2026? Uh will yields follow inflation? Will they follow inflation expectations? Will they follow economic growth? Or none of the above? The bond yield is a political thing these days and people like the Treasury and and the Fed have as much control over it as they want to have until suddenly they would lose all control. But that's miles and miles and miles away and they can bend that curve and they can twist that curve as much as they want and and and they will again interest rates are coming down in America and therefore bonds are going to bond yields are going to go down and bond values are going to go up and that's that's what's and the dollar is going to go down because if you think about the you know you've got to be a Trump whisperer god forbid and he wants to re-industrial ize America. He wants to bring it all back home. He wants MAGA and all that stuff. Well, that means having a more competitive basic set of industries. And for that, you need a weaker currency. And for that, you need well, you need lower interest rates, right? So people can borrow money and build factories and build shipyards. Well, so lower interest rates, higher inflation, weaker currency, and that's how you get a, you know, very quick acting boom. That's the oldfashioned boom bubble economics and that's what America's going to get and a lot of people are already running from that and you could say that's why gold is running because it's all about the dollar. Well, when you think it's all about competing with China, not necessarily in a very friendly way, then you got the second string of gold going up which is gold is for war. So, you've got these two horses of the apocalypse running and you know, you're starting to see uh disruptive markets um appearing. The Here's another article from CNBC. The shutdown of the government has prevented government data from being released in the labor market. So, we don't have official non-farm payrolls data from the BLS. However, we do have private numbers. Uh we have ADP, for example. Well, the Carla group um is also projecting uh that this month could be pretty weak for uh for for uh for data. Firm said it's proprietary data show job growth of just 17,000 for the month which would be even less than 22,000 gained in August reflected in the Bureau of Labor Statistics data with the BLS shuttered. A data release is suspended until the impass between uh Democrats and uh Republicans are is resolved. Wall Street firms are rushing to provide alternative measures to paint a picture of where the US economy is headed. If it is indeed true, Clen, that the labor market is weakening to this kind of extent. Can we still expect inflation? Um well, I mean, if they print money, you get it. If if you look at inflation, it isn't necessarily um bound to those sort of numbers. when you have a economic dynamic where countries print money and it's it's the printing of money and the monetization of money that creates inflation. So it's your money supply not your employment um situation not not whether you've got high um employment or low employment that's only in a sort of steady state situation old-fashioned situation. And I I don't think we're in an old fashioned situation anymore. I think I think that's gone. We're now into a a new era that's very fluid. The good news is you've got AI. The bad news is you've got NS and I call NS is natural stupidity. And we're seeing plenty of that. And you know they're the two things you've got. You've got this this everinccreasing um drum beat of global stress which is totally unnecessary, totally ridiculous, totally damaging, totally awful. And then you've got this drum beat of everinccreasing technology which hopefully will get us into a good place before the other lot get us in a bad place. But so you've got I mean I think so I understand that lots of companies are are kind of freezing their hiring because they're seeing how much they can replace with AI rather than hiring people. I mean, so that will put pressure on your jobs market and AI could be quite a deflationary thing because if robots are making your sneakers and you don't have to have people in there, you your cost of goods goes down and you know, you get into the situation that imported deflation into America when China was doing it. So, you've got all these disruptive uh influences coming out of AI. Yeah. people spending trillions on on server farms, us running out of energy and copper and all that stuff. That's massively disruptive but potentially massively positive. And then you got this global stress stuff where everybody's trying to be the big I am and you know um which is pushing us towards you know terrible situations. So, and and that is creating market conditions that are very very volatile. And you know, if if you've if you think that Bitcoin could be a million dollars a coin, the answer is correct. If you had runaway inflation in America, I mean, you could have $100,000 beers, you know, like they did in Germany in 29. Not that I think we're going to have that, but I think we've passed a point of stability and we're going into very very chaotic um situations and and entropy is going to go up a lot and and cause all sorts of wild outcomes. And of course, for the trader, that's brilliant. For the investor, that's worrisome. Yes. What about silver? Now, we have to move on to gold. If gold is for war, what is silver for? And why are we seeing $40? By the way, it's it's a price that we haven't seen since 2011. And people are now talking about $50. If gold breaches 50. No. What am I talking about? I am way behind. I'm sorry. I haven't had my coffee yet. I meant $50. We're already at $50. Clen, we're at $47. $48 on silver. That's a price not seen since 2011. And then prior to that, the8s, the early8s. Okay. Okay. And by the way, it didn't stay at $50 for very long in either of those bull cycles. So this is truly historic for silver. Why is silver reacting the way it is? Well, another way, if you want to talk history, there's been a fairly large amount of inflation since then. So that's right. That's right. What does that what does that make the the terminal price? So I I look at I look at silver as as the fast horse. Okay. So, you know, gold starts to move and everyone goes, "Well, what's going on there? I don't understand. And gold's going up. Gold's going. I don't understand. Ah. Oh. Oh. Uh. Oh, maybe central banks are buying it. Maybe countries are buying it. Oh, that's interesting. Ah. Oh, I maybe I need to buy some gold. Oh. Oh, gold's going, going, going. Oh, what about silver? What about silver? Oh, it hasn't really moved much yet. Oh, oh, I think I'll buy some of that. Oh, that's bound to follow gold. And in they go. And then you get the momentum up. And the once the fast source is running, it's running. And it's also what I I I call it retail gold. Yeah. Because if you're a normal Joe and you think, "Right, I want to buy silver." Well, you can obviously go in the market and buy it as ETFs, and that would be a sensible thing to do. But a lot of people go down a coin shop and they'll go, "Ah, show me some gold." And they look at this tiny little bit of gold. And they'll go, "Oh, that's quite expensive. Show me some silver. Oh, I I get a sack for that. Get like, oh, it's only 50. I can get, oh yeah, I can get best part of 80 of those coins for the price of one of those gold ones. I'll have that. Give me a sack of silver. That sounds good." So it's more the retail and of course retail is much more frothy than than institutional. So when silver starts to run, it runs fast and it also can run more. So you could see gold go another $1,000, say for example, and then see silver double. And so in a sense, if gold started to slow, if you wanted to play the trading game, you'd flip into silver and see if it carried on running because it's quite capable of running after gold stopped because, you know, B2G business to government, that's gold. You know, B TOC, that's silver. And then if you want to look even further down into the land of obscurity, you got platinum and palladium, which used to be 1:1, and they're like 3:1 at the moment. I mean, is it three? Yeah, roughly 3 to one. Maybe not 3 to one, two, two and a bit to one to gold. So, they could double just to get par with gold. And so, you know, you've got all these different variables going on like crazy. I mean, another one to think about is I mean, silver is thought of as as very important with the AI revolution. But stop and think about how much is made. 3,200 tons of gold, 25,000 tons of silver. That's eight times. Well, if go if silver was 8 to1 to gold, that would be a wonderful world. Do you think silver could sustain above $50 this time once it breaches that price? I mean, unless unless suddenly peace breaks out and and and um you know, Donald gets his Nobel Prize, um it's going to go go way further. I mean, gold if gold just keeps trundling, well, it's not trundling. gold keeps going the way that it's going or even if it slows down and starts to trundle a bit, it's silver's going to go quite a long wave past this and I mean is it does anybody think it's not going to go smashing through 50? I mean why wouldn't it? I mean you could say well you know gold is toppy now. You could make an argument for that and I wouldn't but you could make an argument for that. Oh you know gold's had its run. it's all good and it's not a it's enough. But it's quite difficult to do so. But if gold just continues to do what it's doing even even at the 45 degrees rather than the 90, you know, silver will run and run and run. And $100 is is I mean, I thought $100 was a stretch only a few weeks ago, but now it seems to me to be a a reasonable projection, a reasonable destination, not a dead. I mean, $50 now there's that's looking like a dead S. Didn't look like a dead S three weeks ago, did it? Do you think that um precious metals will outperform cryptos again in 2026? Um, sorry, I I I that was too vague. Bitcoin in particular. That's okay. That's not That's not too vague because some cryptos did outperform gold and silver by a tremendous amount. But let's just zero in on Bitcoin in particular. Bitcoin I I think and correct me if I'm wrong, I think Bitcoin led gold and silver in its rally in this rally because it already went up 150% or something by the time it reached $100,000 which was late November last year and after it reached $100,000 it's been hovering around that range and it's up only I say only 25 to 30% uh year to date. uh you know it's it's great but most of that rally has already happened and so comparatively speaking it's underperforming the precious metals this year. What about next year? Well, you know I I everyone's been telling me I'm wrong about Bitcoin since I got out in November at 100,000 and as you say it's been hovering now. So there's only one question is is can it go on another leg up? And it's it's almost been hovering for so long it's not even part of that move anymore. And we've seen all this um treasury strategy stuff which is kind of a little bit um surprising and the the amount of racket pro Bitcoin to the moon that that's out there is absolutely stunning and it's kind of trying to get out of its range but it hasn't managed it. It pulled back today you know quite significantly. So I would I'm a bear. I'm a hibernating bear. I mean the the thing is that if very volatile geopolitical stuff kicks off it will it will rocket for sure. But if it doesn't if we carry on doing what we've been doing over the last year at some point there's going to be exhaustion and it's going to get into a crypto winter. And I've been expecting a crypto winter for six months. So I've been I've been wrong about it going down and I've been right about it not going up. So, so I'm a half wrong bear and and I I don't the longer it stays in this range, the less likely it is to make a sudden Bitcoin like break for for the moon. And you know, Bitcoin is all about 10x or 5x or 4x or doubling overnight. It's not about creeping around the place and going up 20%. You can get way more fun than that from Nvidia or Tesla or Amazon or anybody. you know, AMD went up 38% yesterday. I mean, you know, why would the enthusiasm of the speculator is going to be heavily waning if it doesn't start to make a move pretty soon? And I I think it's almost anybody's guess whether it will because it's all down to the NS I spoke to earlier. It's all down to the the natural stupidity of world leaders. What are they doing that is qualifying as stupidity, Clen? Well, they're trying to fight each other, hadn't you noticed? Well, that's been happening since the dawn of dawn of history. Hasn't No, it hasn't. The end of history. Remember that? When the when the war, Russia fell and America volunteered to to help them get rid of all their nuclear weapons and all that good stuff, you know, velvet revolutions and um all that kumbay there was back in the back in the day. I remember it. Uh I why I don't I haven't been around as long as you, Clen. Um Clen, what uh what is your preferred asset right now in this tumultuous time? Geopolitical uncertainty. Gold is for war. There's a plenty of that going around right now. Is gold still the preferred play at $4,000 or do you prefer something else? I'm going to start sweating if it gets into the 4 and a half thousand plus zone and I'll be hanging on I think and if it goes through 5,000 the more it goes up the more I'm going to be sweating when it's near 5,000. Okay. So, you know, trees don't grow to the to the skies as they as they say, which doesn't mean a great deal, but it means that things don't go up forever. And I've had a good run. And I always get out, not at the top, not over the top and back down the other side, but normally about twothirds of the way up. So if I get out of 5,000, it's going to eight. But, you know, I'm I'm I'm worried about the the the velocity of this move, not about the number. So, I'm cool with that. I mean, I am now, I think, moving into American defense stocks because they look like they're starting to run. And you know the defense stocks in Europe have run and uh and in the UK they have run and if you look at Loheed Martin um its recent performance since uh say August. Oh that's an interesting looking chart. I mean you don't often see stocks do that what it's doing which is which is not a big move but it's just going accelerate. And you know that's what I look for in charts. I look for accelerations and you know certain patterns do certain things up like a rocket down like a rock accelerate you know just keep going up like that smooth as silk all those sort of things and I look for those patterns because they tell you about the underlying dynamic driving that market well if you look at Loheed Martin I think they pay a 2.5% dividend I mean give me a break yeah and they're on an 18p when the S&P is on 28 give me a break and all of a sudden and you know everybody Everybody's shouting at everybody and now China's helping Russia fight the Ukrainians and America's going to send cruise missiles. Maybe, maybe not. Oh blah blah blah blah. And then your defense stock starts to do that. Are defense stocks the play right now for you, Clen? Are you anticipating more conflict? They have been in Europe. They have been in Europe because um the American administration told the Europeans to defend themselves while they went to war with China. I mean, they didn't exactly say that, but they might as well have. And bang, up went all the European defense stocks like a blooming rocket. And you're talking about X multiples there. And um that was very good. Yes, I like that. So I'm still positioned there because you know unless um peace breaks out, they're just going to have to gear up. They're they're going to rearm. And a rearmment play is a big deal, right? And if America starts to approach getting toe-to-toe with China and shouting in its face, then they're going to have to rearm or arm even more. And you know the Chinese, I told you this last time, they've got cliff climbing ships that they've got, they've got these boats that come in and they've got these like so they can put put gangways up onto tops of the Taiwanese cliffs because Taiwan doesn't have any beaches. So it's got three beaches. So they're going to have to they have built cliff climbing ships to invade Taiwan. So they've already built the ships. They've already built the equipment. They've already said they're going to do it right now. Hopefully it won't happen, but if it does, you know, Loheed Martin and the likes of that um you know, North Grimman, they're just L3H Harris, they're just going to go ballistic, aren't they? And they're not expensive. 18 PE some of them. Locked I think it's 18. I'm looking at the chart there in disbelief, aren't you? Well, I I I I wonder if it's I wonder what exactly they're pricing in escalation in what in in which in which theater? There's multiple theaters. I mean there's multiple theaters go war going on right now. Unfortunately, the American administration has come out and said pretty much word for word, you know, there's the European theater and there's there's the Pacific theater and and Europe needs to deal with with that and um America's going to deal with Asia. Well, look at that chart. I mean, look at that. Give me a break. What is that? What is that? Yeah. and it's an 18p and it pays a 2% dividend and it's basically pretty much half the price of of um other uh military stocks. And of course all the crazy ones, all the ones that are making drones and and all that all that kind of Ukrainian um stuff um they've all gone completely ballistic. I mean I can't remember the name of of uh Kattos. There you are. If you want another chart that make your eyes water. K R A T O S. Let's take a look at this. Wow. Yeah. Wow. How how much of this is just everything moving at the same time? And that's my other question. Why is everything moving up? No. No. Look, look, in in in April of last year, it was what? It was it's it's up what 200 300% something like that. Oh, that's that's this year. So, it's it's Yeah, it's up 200. Gold is for war. David and year it's up 291%. The S&P is up 14%. Okay. So clearly outperforming. Yeah, there go. Okay. Gold is for war. Drones are for war. Kratos is for drones. Too too spicy for me. That's the sort of stuff that gives me nose beds even looking at the chart. But you know what's it telling you? Yeah. What what what is it telling us? Um it tells you that c certain people think it's important for America to have drones. Clear, present, and needed. That's right. No, that's right. And I'm just Well, it's just it's kind of ironic that the market thinks that defense stocks are are now the play given that Donald Trump's entire administration and his whole platform is deescalation of war. I know he promised us that the Ukraine war would be over uh by his first day in office and uh he promised that uh he would make Benj Benjamin Netanyahu prime minister of Israel stop what's going on in Gaza. By the way, this is the one-year anniversary of the attack in Israel by Hamas on October 7th. So that's still going on. Is it more like two? Two years. Two years. Two years. Yeah, two years. That's what I meant to say. October 7th. So none of these conflicts are, you know, the these are all subjects that I'm not qualified to discuss. But I've forgot to say that that um you know, when your defense or is it war minister stands up in front of Europeans and tells them they've got to, you know, deal with the Eastern front while we've got to deal with the Asian front and then defense stocks explode the next day in Europe. you know what what what conclusion do you come to? What do we do with Bitcoin? Then let's close off on Bitcoin. If if gold and silver are for war, gold in particular, um is Bitcoin also the alternative asset that we need to hide with? Bitcoin is for flight. Yeah. So imagine you are a um somebody um who's been getting a lot of money from Iran for example and all of a sudden you going to have to um do a runner because they're going to kill you and you've still got say a couple hundred million um hanging about um well you you you can't take that to the airport or or jump in a sailboat. Yeah. You got to put it in Bitcoin. You put it in Bitcoin and then you've got it in a smart stick or whatever. You write it on a piece of paper and stick it somewhere and then you can go to the airport, can't you? Or whatever, or get airlifted out. And so if you are were an Afghani minister of theft, if you were um perhaps a very rich uranium thinking he might get bombed by the Americans, if you are a Russian oligarch that thinks you might fall out of a fifth floor window, um you put your money in Bitcoin and you do a runner, don't you? And then if if that's a situation where a few of you like that up goes Bitcoin because you can't really take you know a couple of days worth of billions in demand and then when it all bo comes over it all sorts out it comes back down again. So Bitcoin is for flight. That's my model. Now some people might say Bitcoin is for generational wealth. All you need is a Satoshi and your family will be rich beyond infinity. But you know um its use case the use case of Bitcoin is a um a alternative asset. It's no longer not correlated. So that's no good anymore. But it is very good for flight and you know that is one of its key use cases. Bitcoin is for gambling, right? Uh Bitcoin is for all sorts of nefarious things as well. But a mainstream use is flight and as such it's a very strong haven asset. So if people need a haven asset that's highly mobile then Bitcoin will will go up and when people need it less it will go down. The notion that we're in a bubble this is something we've discussed back in July when you were on my show. Uh you you said that we could be entering a bubble phase where I think you were referring to the stock markets. What do you think now? I mean just today uh AMD is up 40% on the news that it's partnering with Nvidia. Sorry not Nvidia uh with uh Open AI. The Open AI AMD partnership has boosted the price from 169 to 210. And so yeah, and just in a matter of one day we've got that. I'm not saying it's a bubble. I'm just saying that if we were in a bubble in the summertime, well things are looking even more frothy now. Jeff Bezos himself has even said that uh the um uh the um AI space right now is looking like an industrial industrial bubble. Yes, server farms in space. Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, yeah, he's also right. Now, what he said about that is that this is a this is a dot bubble, too. However, what you have to think about is what year? 2001, 2000, 99, 98, 97, 96, 95. It's somewhere in there. And I think it's probably got a year or so to run, maybe more. I mean, the thing about the internet, that was a big deal. Okay, a big big deal. But AI is 10x that. It's is it's so much more of a big deal. I I was one of those internet.com um successful um.com boomers. I mean, I had a com boom company that went from, you know, uh 10p to2 pound50 in 4 days. So, I know all about that run. And he's right. There will be mass casualties in the AI field. And out of that will come absolutely Goliath companies for sure. That's absolutely going to happen. However, where are we? If we're in the end of 1999, you want to be selling. But if it's 1997, there's a long way to go. And again, we're not in a vertical in the NASDAQ. A bubble goes vertical like gold looks right now. Gold looks quite quite bubbly. Yeah. It goes up, it breaks up, it starts to go crazy, and then the final part of it is absolute vertical. I don't think we're in the vertical yet, but I think we're probably in the beginning phase of we're not no longer in a in a boom. We are now at the beginning phase of a bubble, but it could be 18 months, could be 18 weeks, it's certainly not going to be 18 years. Google noted that uh searches for AI bubble have fallen a bit. So here's interest over time worldwide, the term AI bubble. Um you can see it's diminished somewhat. They even wrote an article on um online about how the uh the bubble um the bubble in people searching for AI bubble has burst meaning people are no longer as concerned as before. Uh is this reminiscent of 1999 or is this just does this simply mean that u the concern is no longer relevant and the bubble that we've all been talking about really was just a fickman of our imagination? CL the only person that rings the bell at the top of a bubble is me. Okay. And then everybody will tell me what an idiot I am. How I will enjoy being poor. And when everybody's saying it's a bubble, it isn't. And when everybody say it isn't, it is. And when everybody says it's going to go down forever, it's the bottom. And when everybody says it's going to go to the moon, it's the top. That is the law. Would Would you characterize yourself as a contrarian, Clem? Yeah, definitely. Oh, I'm so contrarian. It's painful. That's why I get this stuff early. That's why I come to you and say, "This is going to happen, David." And it does. I'm not like some of your other guests that predict the past. What do you mean predicting the past? Well, it's much much harder to predict the future than the past. So, a lot of people prefer to predict the past. Give us give us give us one more insight about the future, Clen. Something we haven't talked about. We'll close off here. Well, I mean, I think that uh it's going to get harder and harder to predict what's going to happen because volatility is going to go up and up, but the dollar's coming down. People are going to be running away from the dollar, but trying to keep their dollars. So, there going to be a lot of hedging going on. Uh there's going to be a lot of of of stuff happening. Okay, let's put it another way. The US versus China is a big hairy deal. Work out for yourself what's going to make you money there because you might need it when you head for Chile, right? And then the other one is AI is a massive, massive, massive, massive big hairy deal. And if you can pick up the right winner, the right area that no one's thinking of, and there's loads of them out there right now, you can stake them out and get in early and and you'll make a fortune. Let me give you an example. I mean, well, copper is a perfect example. There's just not enough of it. But what about people that make copper cables? Is that a good um investment or a bad investment? And I I was looking at all the big cable makers that make cables for server farms. The trouble is obviously they're going to have to buy copper and they're going to have all these orders and copper's going to go for the roof. So their margins are going to go like that. So maybe not a great investment. So you know there's going to be demand for commodities, strategic metals like there's never been before. There's going to be demand for certain things that are just going to spin people's heads. They're going to bowl the oceans. So, what assets, what companies do you want to be long off because it nobody knows totally yet? And and the full implications of this is only starting to dawn on people. And it's just such a massive thing. It's like when they invented the steam engine. It's it's like that, but it's also going to be at an accelerated pace. The big stocks in the good old days were the railway stocks. It all came from the steam engine, steam power, railways, railways was massive. You know, the Vanderbilt and Fortune was built on on the back of it, for example. And you know, that is the situation we're in now. There's been a moment of a breakthrough in in science and technology, which is AI. And that is going to do for humanity what artificial muscle did for us. It's got this is artificial brain which is a 10x for that even. So it's a 10x and a 10x. It's like you know that's what you've got to be focusing on finding things that will be on that rocket ship. Copper is one. Yeah. I I copper has gone up uh a bit. it it um since August since the big price adjustment on the COMX in August. We will follow up with copper in another time. I'm just going to close on this note and maybe you can respond to that. This feels to me a lot like 2021 where pretty much everything was going up, but bond yields are um bond yields have come down slightly. The 10-year yield has come down slightly. So, bonds are doing quite well this year as well. So, it just just it it feels like anywhere you go, you put money anywhere, you're going to make money. And I don't know if that's a good thing or bad thing right now. It's normally a sign of the end, but I don't think it's everything going up, but the certain No, absolutely not everything. But I'm just took I'm talking about the major asset classes that I've Yeah. I mean, we are in we are we are in a a very interesting moment. And as I set off by saying, it's like I it's I find it disconcerting. So you have to be, you know, either buy and hold and buy the dip and not you watch your show, David, or you have to be like us, which is always trying to work out what's coming up next. It's what comes up next is where the money is. And you know, I was speaking about gold a long time with you and then platinum and palladium a long time back and defense stocks and copper recently before it started to move. And you know, that's my game and that's your game and I hope your viewers are are having a good time watching us. This is uh has been a great talk. It's it's an important talk on this uh monumental day when gold and silver at our are at both historical levels. So, I appreciate your insights. Clen, tell us where we can find you. Well, you can find me at that thing that's been on the screen the whole time, I hope, which is um on on X Clem CLM Chambers. And you can find me on my new site, which is a newfn.com, which has just released um for you British viewers, free real time. uh prices which is the only free route time prices in the UK that you can get and in due course guys from the states and girls from the states we'll be doing the same with for the American market so you might want to check us out and as I say Forbes I I write regularly on Forbes and of course I appear on this amazing podcast with David as often as they let me on. Absolutely. We'll have you on as often as you are available and I appreciate uh you coming on today. Thank you very much. We'll put the links down below. Make sure to follow CLM on X. His handle is down below. And and YouTube too. I forgot YouTube. David impressed me so much with his channel. I started my own. It's called Clem Chambers Alpha. And I didn't know you when when did you do this, Clem? When did you start this? Oh, a couple of weeks ago. And it seems to be going a little bit ballistic. So we could have we could have let with that news. Clem Clem Chambers. Um what is it called again? I'll put the link down below. It's Clem Chambers Alpha. Clem Chambers Alpha. I like I like the This is it. I like the um profile picture. Did you Did AI do that or is that Did you hire an artist? Is that something? Actually, that that that profile picture was one of the first AI picture making things that came out about three years ago because I'm always like to get there early. And everyone says, "Why do you have that ugly picture there? It's so ugly." But I like ugly pictures of me because, you know, it gets people's attention. If I put a pretty one, no one wants to click on it. Okay. All right. Well, we'll click on you regardless of uh your hair or your uh your profile picture. Everyone, check out his channel. Thank you very much, Clen. Next time. See you later. And thank you for watching. Don't forget to like and subscribe.