What British Investors Should Learn From America | LFTC
Summary
Investment Insights: Wilfrid Frost discusses the importance of learning from successful investors and business leaders, emphasizing the need for British investors to embrace risk to combat inflation and achieve financial growth.
Market Outlook: The podcast highlights the UK's inflation challenges, with recent rates at 3.8%, and the necessity for investors to be proactive to avoid losing purchasing power.
UK vs. US Markets: Frost notes the UK's stock market performance, particularly the FTSE 100, which is outperforming the US in relative terms, despite lacking the tech giants that drive US market growth.
Company Listings: The discussion covers the trend of UK companies relisting in the US for better valuations, with Frost emphasizing the importance of retaining company headquarters in the UK to foster local talent and innovation.
Financial Culture: The podcast explores cultural differences in risk-taking between the UK and the US, noting that British investors tend to be more conservative, which may hinder growth and innovation.
Media and Financial Education: Frost expresses optimism about traditional media's role in financial education, suggesting that live TV and podcasts can provide valuable insights and inspiration for investors.
Legacy and Influence: The episode touches on Frost's efforts to preserve and promote his father's journalistic legacy, highlighting the enduring relevance of historical interviews like Frost/Nixon in today's political climate.
Transcript
[Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Live from the Compound. My guest today needs no introduction and I'm actually I don't want to say embarrassed, but I'm sheepishly about to do an introduction. And the reason why is you are a professional at this and uh I've only I only do this in my spare time, but I'm I'm going to do give my best shot. Wilfrid Frost is a British business journalist and television presenter known for anchoring Sky News Breakfast. He spent 5 years as a fund manager at Newton Investment Management, which I did not know about. Um, before launching your broadcast career in 2011, you guys know Wilfred primarily as the host of CNBC's Worldwide Exchange, which aired from 3:00 in the morning till uh 5:00 in the morning. >> 5 till 6. >> 5 till 6. All right. Um, but you were the co-host of the closing bell with Sarah Eisen. I was a weekly regular. We had the time of our lives. I think that ran from 2018. Try to remember when it ended. >> I did I did 18 to 22 on that. Four years. Yeah. >> Okay. All right. Uh, Wilfford is here to discuss the current state of markets as well as his new weekly show, The Master Investor Podcast, where he interviews legendary investors and business leaders to offer listeners exclusive investing insights and ambitionfueled inspiration. Did you write that? >> No, I didn't. You guys wrote that. I'm going to take that off. >> Pretty badass. >> Yeah. >> Um, that um that title uh and I looked at your guest list. I haven't listened to all the episodes. It's pretty apt. You have Ray Dallio, you uh I love the Liz Anne Saunders episode from last week, especially because you gave me a shout out uh during that. You're getting some incredible guests and obviously that's a testament to the work that you did while you were here covering business and meeting all these folks. >> Yeah. And we had David Solomon as well. We had Dan Niles. >> Tone it down. No, we got we got it. >> Um and uh lots more to come. I mean, the the thing that I'm so excited about the podcast is pretty much everyone has said yes that I've asked. >> Okay. >> Obviously, I haven't scheduled them all yet. It's a weekly drop. Um, and I'm I think that's I'd like to think two things. One is, as you said, you know, a testament to the groundwork one puts in um and uh and building those contacts over time. But I think that there's an interesting offering. So the tagline that I came up with that you guys have just improved with uh giving Josh the script there. >> Unbelievable. >> Unbelievable is you know where we celebrate and learn from the success of the greatest investors, business leaders and politicians in the world. Giving you our listeners the edge. And I think in the UK there's been something lost about that in the last decade or two. I don't think it applied when I grew up. And in in my six and a half years in America when I moved back I kind of was a bit disappointed and surprised but the amount to which we seem to want to criticize success rather than celebrate and learn from it. So that's kind of the heart of what I'm doing there. >> Well, it really seems like you're in a position to bring that those animal spirits back in in the UK. Um, I I feel that if you can build an audience of people who have found huge success investing, and these are not people that they got lucky or their brother-in-law tipped them off to a coin or they accidentally bought Nvidia and forgot to sell it, but like people that over decades have established credibility, have made money for a lot of other people, not just themselves, have invested for on behalf of hospitals and pension funds. Those are the type of people that I think do offer the type of example where your viewers who are maybe only semi-interested in investing might become inspired. So I I love that for you. >> Absolutely right. And I think you know it is important because when you have inflation at, you know, 11% in the UK a couple of years ago, people are losing money if they're just sitting in cash. Let alone I think for the next decade we're probably going to have over 3%. The latest print in the UK was 3.8%. you know, people have to be smart with this or else they're actually losing. It's not just a, you know, people don't want to take risk perhaps in the UK, but actually if you're just standing still, you're losing. So, I think that's a point and, you know, our our listeners after 8 weeks are roughly half UK US. It's it's definitely not just for the UK audience, but I think it gives a slightly different perspective. Me doing it in this format compared to what I used to do for CNBC. It's long form, 45 minutes or so, 30 to 45 minutes an episode, and it's not too tied to the short-term news cycle. It's life lessons from these people as well as you know politicians. We had Jack Lou so far we've got Liz Trust >> former Treasury Secretary Jack Lou. >> We've got Liz Truss coming up. We've got Nick Kle coming up. Um two former British politicians who have different perspectives on the economy and and business. So I think it's life lessons as well as investing tips ultimately either way if you listen I think will give you an edge. >> Uh as you're speaking I'm just looking at the Footsie 100. I think a lot of listeners or or viewers of this would be surprised to learn that it's actually doing quite well. >> They'd be like the what? >> Yeah. >> What are we talking about? >> So these are >> year to date. These are the largest most consequential companies in England. And you guys have a stock market now. >> It's depressing that you have to describe what the Footsie 100 is, but you probably I sort of do. >> Yeah. But it's it's it's very rare. >> Yeah. uh in my entire time in in the markets which was since I graduated in 2008 that we're outperforming the US because the US has been the only game in town. I mean I think you still are the only game in town to be clear but uh in a relative sense it's it's not been a bad year uh in terms of stock market performance and yeah it's a similar kind of theme you're seeing here. You're seeing a bit of the the value or quality pick up relative to the growth. We don't have much growth but you know there's a price for everything. >> Well, right. So what you lack is the type of like um globally dominant technology giants that have been one of the driving forces of earnings growth in and market cap growth. So Nvidia I believe is larger than the entire Footsie. >> Oh easily. I mean the 4.4 4 trillion. I think I think you've got five companies bigger than right >> separately in bigger than the Footsie 100 combined. >> And then and then I was looking at some of the components of the Footsie in preparation for this and I see like I see companies like uh Rolls-Royce which people associate with the cars but I I think BMW makes the cars now. They don't even do that. They're making mini nuclear reactors and jet engines and it's tech. >> Oh, we historically we were fantastic engineer you know engineers. We we developed Concord which flew quicker across the Atlantic in 1970s than it than people can do today. So it's a great shame. Uh but you know this comes back to it. It is in our DNA. Britain as a mindset towards success in capitalism I've always thought is somewhere between continental Europe and the US. And I growing up always believed, and maybe this is because my father had such an affinity with America and the household I grew up in, but that we were much closer to the US than we were to continental Europe. I still believe that if you look at our history, if you look at our DNA, you look at some of those success stories, but there's just been some kind of something that's held it back. And and I I think it's there. I I I will always be a massive long-term bull on the United Kingdom. Um but but we definitely have slowed down of late. >> I think first things first stopping the listings from leaving is should be like priority one. And the way you do that is with less ownorous regulation. Um but like you look at there's a company called Ferguson trades here in the United States. It was a US company acquired by a British company. I think it spent 50 years as a British company and then they left and relisted here because they looked at the multiple that they were getting on their earnings and they looked at their US-based competitors and they said, "This is ridiculous. We should at least be getting a similar multiple to what our competitors get. Hasn't worked. Still very cheap stock, but I think we want to stop that for you." And then I also think the rebirth of the IPO is something that the public gets excited for. >> Yeah. So it's interesting. I think the listing problem is almost the kind of public face of the issue, but I don't think it's the core issue because it is just a fact that you know capital multiple in the S&Ps what 22 times versus 12 13 times in the UK. So it's very hard to argue against relisting if you're a business that that is kind of comparable to what's in the other country, >> right? uh particularly if you're about to IPO and you know some of the fintech successes in the UK are choosing to to IPO over here it it's it's a problem it'd be great to correct but the key thing is where these companies are headquartered and based and can we make sure that if you are the next ARM holdings for example which is our one big tech success story of the last decade listed here >> listed here after being bought by a Japanese firm and private for five or six years >> um can they develop and stay physically base in the UK because that is more important to me. I think that you want to make sure we remain and I think this is a question mark at the moment attractive to the best global talent in the world and most importantly to our domestic talent and and if you can show those people this is a place where your ideas will be rewarded and you can have a great career then we're still fine long term and and the listing thing is is a problem. we need to address it because it raises the you know working capital cost of the company there if you're going to have to raise capital and it cost you more these are all factors but you know I think worse would be is if you see ARM it chose to list in the US but if it says we're closing 50% of our research facility in Cambridge and we're moving it to the Cambridge here do you know what I mean that that would be >> such an important it's such an important point because when I'm invested in a stock and I look at who's the CEO and I try to understand the family tree like where did this person come from. So, one of my bigger investments is in Uber and DAR of course comes from like >> I remember you talking about that >> that family tree with Expedia and Barry Diller like you look at um all these companies now SAS software companies where the founder came out of Google um you look at like in the semiconductor industry there's this whole chain of people how they got to where they are now you kind of need that and it takes generations but the sooner you restart that process Um because you're not just giving birth to companies that then list their IPO. Think about all of the executives and engineers at these tech firms. At at a certain point, they want to leave and do their own startup. And you want there to be an ecosystem so that they can actually staff that startup locally, not just go go out to uh you know, Palo Alto. >> Yeah. And what we've been poor at in the tech industry in particular, I think in the last 5 to 10 years is allowing the early like unicorn type success stories to scale in the UK. >> Right. >> So, so actually we've got some of the brightest minds. Our education I think is still very very good and >> we don't need no education >> and people well that's true but people are coming out British song but the people are coming up with you know some of these ideas and you're developing these companies but then can they get the access to capital and talent to really scale and you know they're being picked off by by American PE and again they're still sort of headquartered there but they need to be able to grow further. I'm curious what your thoughts are about who the audience is for business uh financial media and business in the UK. The great thing about your podcast is people all over the world are going to listen to it and I'm sure they already are. >> Well, it's it's a it's a really interesting question. So, you know, I I was I'll rewind the clock a bit. When I moved out here December 2015, I I had been two years at CNBC London, came out here, I was blown away by the scale of interest in what is a sort of niche area of journalism, business news. And I think in America, CNBC and its its its rivals, which it leaves in the dust, I love CNBC. um you know fighting for maybe 25% potential audience of the population who are just people who are interested in success want to be successful themselves but they don't necessar >> it's tens of millions of households >> tens of millions of households >> that that would tune in if you can get them to pay attention >> and and and these are people who didn't have to work in finance but they're they may have made their money in any area but they want to be interested in the stock market and and success stories and ambition and and celebrating all of those things I I think in the UK pay the sort of CNBC and Bloomberg are fighting for 1%. It's literally just the people that work in finance who might have it on in the office but probably not at home. And so there's a big big gap between the two. I I actually think in the UK there's much more than that one or 2% of the population out there that definitely >> but but it's probably not 25 and I think it's 10 to 15. And I think by the way that market is also served as if it is only one or 2%. So I think you know here there's fierce competition for a podcast like this as uh you know present company very much included in that sense and so so I think it's a big big chunk of people and we'll find out in the weeks ahead. By the way, the early numbers make make me think it's right that that that no that I just think there's a lot of people that that want to celebrate success and not >> just always had this like tone of envy and criticism which you know do you know I your your episode with Tom Lee recently you guys were talking about this about people that got jealous of crypto successes you know by the way I'm the person that hasn't bought every single >> last you're the last buyer >> I'm the last buyer >> okay >> but I'm not jealous of any of the success stories I've got some friends that have made a fortune from it, paid off their mortgages. I think fantastic, good for you. I wish I joined you, but I'm not envious that you'd done that. And I think way more people have that kind of mindset than than have almost sort of publicized in the UK. >> So, I want to ask you if you think this is true. I've been to Europe. I've spoken with people that work in the financial services industry. I've spoken with a lot of financial adviserss. Um I once went to an event, British company put on this event on the continent and uh they I guess they assembled financial adviserss from every European country in Berlin for 3 days on asset allocation and basically fund managers pitching. >> Berlin's fun, right? >> The audience Berlin was fun. Um, what I heard from from people, and I know you you see Britain as being more similar to the United States than than the rest of Europe, but what I what I heard, including from British financial adviserss, is that as a financial adviser, it's sort of really hard to get fired because most of them work at banks. And these banks are 400 years old. And the families who are wealthy now are the same families who were wealthy 400 years ago. it's people that had land effectively. Um, and so as a result, the the advisers get switched around, but the family never leaves the bank. And so they sort of see themselves as not as entrepreneurial as advisers in America. They sort of see themselves more as, well, the relationship is really between this family in Amsterdam and this bank that they've been at for 200 years, and I'm the part that can get kicked out. So what I have to do is not take too much risk. Um whereas here in America, we have to take risk on behalf of our clients. They expect us to do so. They don't like it when it goes poorly. But we do reap the benefit of having made people a lot of money when it goes well. >> And I just didn't really hear that mindset in talking to British and European financial adviserss. Am I like uh overgeneralizing or do you think there's some element of that? I've never heard that specifically, but everything you're saying kind of tallies. I can I can totally >> believe that. And I I'd say it slightly differently, which is, you know, so I started my career in finance at Newton Investment Management, and it was it was your classic slightly stale, loved everyone I worked with there, but slightly stale, longonly asset manager. Now, I I love the way my investment knowledge has kind of played out because it was a great learning tool. I did all the classic DCFs very, you know, it was it starting companies. >> Are we going to switch our position from Vodafone to British Telecom? We'll spend a year debating and by the time we shift, one's moved 5%, the others move 5% and then they stay flat for a decade anyway. Like but but it was all very good grounding. And then I switched to to the Asia desk which is a little bit more dynamic, but it still wasn't particularly dynamic. And then I came out here for CNBC where people like Tom Lee, people like you are are being quicker on on the money. You're you're more focused on things like momentum and sentiment. And I the first year I'm thinking, sorry guys, you know, this is a cheaper stock, so it's better than the other one or or whatever, you know. And so I think I think there's definitely that difference. The traditional asset management industry is the same as it is here, but you don't have as big of a new retail trader sentiment and you don't have that influencing what the market does as much and thus allowing you guys to build success by looking at that and and giving it a weight in how you put up your decisions. >> Is there a cultural difference though in the willingness to take risk that can be overcome? >> Definitely. But I and and the willingness to take risk I think is again somewhere between the average in continental Europe and and and and in the US. How do you overcome that? It's hard. >> Yeah. >> You know, and I'm not going to s sit there on the podcast and tell people to take risk, but I'm going to give them as much of an education and the tools if they so desire that hopefully they'll be in a better place to do it. But I mean, yeah, it's it's an interesting >> part of it may part of it may be structural. Sometime in the 1990s, we basically decided as a society here in the US that we were going to put the onus of retirement directly on the household. So, we went away from these like sort of um defined benefit pension schemes uh to fund retirement and we said instead, ladies and gentlemen, this is the 401k. You choose your own funds. You make your own decisions about how much exposure to risk versus how little and uh it's it's it's on you. The company is not going to pay you until until you're 85 years old. Like there's no pension anymore. >> Well, we did that too maybe five or so years later. >> Okay. >> And yet we're stuck in between both. So we have much fewer defined contribution pen, you know, beneficiaries of of those types of pensions now. And yet the defined benefit pension isn't as embraced as it is here. So, so that's a great snapshot for the difference when I moved here versus the UK. People here are so actively engaged on their own 401k >> almost because they have to be. >> Yeah. Whereas in the in the UK, a people don't probably save enough into it in the first place, but they won't have the slightest clue about what's in it. >> It'll be managed by some arm of the corporate that they work for, right? not even necessarily in the asset management which will be outsourced again to some kind of pension fund manager. >> It'll be pretty heavily in bonds as well. Um so so it's a whole mindset that needs to change. >> Yeah. I wanted to ask you so my take on the way finance is covered here um on the part of big media because I want to talk to you about what you think about um you mentioned being bullish on traditional media, bullish on the news. So, the way I've always thought of it is um CNBC covers the markets like sports. >> Yeah. >> I've always looked at it like it's ESPN for money. Totally. >> Which is what I love about it and I think that's what the viewers love. >> Um Bloomberg is a little bit more B2B and I almost feel like they are covering markets through the lens of of data and analysis because that's their main business. And then Fox Business really seems to cover it almost as like a different version of politics. >> Um which is fine. there's room for everybody. Y >> um >> in the UK you just don't have that many outlets that are specifically focused on markets. Um but you are bullish on the concept of traditional news. Maybe not specifically cable itself, but just like sort of having these news outlets that are large, dominant, and that do a really good job of covering whatever it is politics. Oh, I'm I'm really bullish on live TV, particularly relative to how it's priced. If there was a price for all all of this, you know, obviously you can look at some of the stocks which trade off that ITV in the UK is on a sort of eight times PE. It'll be really interesting to see what PE uh that you know, the new Comcast uh spin-off Versent starts off at. >> So, Versent will be MSNBC, >> CNBC, >> CNBC, and the Golf Channel. and and I bet it'll start on a very low P and I you know depend everything has to have a price I'd be a buyer of that potentially but but my point and you know my day job in the UK is mainstream news sky news is mainstream and the podcast is on the side um I I think that expectations are so low one you know Sky News you can't trade is owned by Sky which is owned by Comcast but if I think if it was trading right now it'd be on a very low PE and I think that's wrong because all of the sort of new media that has evolved, let's say, over the last decade has had so much money poured into it. So, there's, you know, the the the high quality drama and docs that can be on Netflix or Disney Plus or or HBO or wherever. Yeah. >> There's the kind of newsish type rivals of these types of podcasts, which are all fantastic, but you it's hard to see how those >> new media threats could have more investment in the next decade relative to old media than they've had. >> Oh, that's interesting. And and I think live television outside of sports has been really hollowed out and and there's always a need for it. Now I ex totally agree with your framing of CNBC which is it covers it like sports. So it makes there always be a need for that niche audience which is quite a sizable niche tuned >> to stay tuned in. >> Yeah. And and in mainstream news, you don't have that reason as often, but there will always be a requirement for live television news. And the competition is lower than it used to be because it's been hollowed out. And you see that here there's cost cutting of the big cable news channels here. >> So if something live TV really resonates, it no longer has as much competition. >> Exactly. And then all of a sudden you've got pricing power on on the advertisements that are going to run during it because it becomes bigger uh as a result of not being as competitive. >> Exactly. Right. And I and I think that you know on top of that we're about to relaunch the breakfast show my my new co-anchor and I Sophie Ridge in in they haven't announced the date yet but it's in in the next couple of months. I think the date gets announced next week. Um it'll be in in the sort of late part of the year. And I think that we can just give it a bit more energy and freshness as well, which makes a big difference. You know, I think if you if you throw some I think, you know, our aim will be to to bring a a warmth and a relatability to the breakfast show, intelligent conversation, but in a very inviting way with a sort of unscripted jeopardy to it. So I this is the thing that live television >> unex unexpected moment >> has that podcast don't >> you know the viewer knows that it's live whether that's the two presenters chatting and something going wrong or right or funny >> right >> a reporter joining with a report from the field or in the studio or a live interview particularly when you're holding someone to account a business leader or politician yeah >> there is a jeopardy >> about it being live and not knowing what's going to happen that 10-minute conversation could contain less in it and it would still be more attractive to the viewer than a recorded 10-minute version of it because it's live. And you know, I I have ma mainly I think that because of my own experience in TV, but also from watching back, you know, the tens of thousands of interviews my my late father did, you know, that aspect of it being live, the unpredictability about it. I think the viewer knows that and they're more drawn in all else equal. So, I'm glad you brought that up because I wanted I wanted to talk about um I wanted to talk about the the legacy of uh of what your father accomplished as arguably one of the most important television journalists or maybe just journalists period of the 20th century. For people who are unaware, what could we tell them about David Frost and um sort of the the the life's work that you're now doing to remind people of how important journalism is? >> Yeah. So, dad um started on TV aged 22 in 1962 >> and and continued for over 50 years till the day he died uh in uh >> it's incredible >> 2013. Yeah. So, 51 years on on screen and did it you know across actually not just two continents because he was pretty big in Australia and the Middle East as well like across the world but particularly UK and US and across so many different genres as well. you know, he wasn't just a business journalist or a politics journalist or an entertainment or sports like he and anyone, you know, you could think of in the last 50 years he interviewed you the I think you were off that week. I was listening to the episode and Michael and the team were discussing when Hulk Hogan died. >> Yeah. >> About um you know, people who were globally famous like Hulk Hogan was and they listed the other people that they thought were in that category in the last 50 years. I think every single one of the ones they listed, dad had interviewed at times, multiple times, you know, like the Beatles, Ali, Elton John, you know, the it's extraordinary the spread that dad did that with. And, you know, after he died in 2013, I I, you know, picked up the reigns of his his company. And I bought back and done various deals to digitize, catalog, and buy the rights of of interviews he's done. I now control about 80% of the 10,000 plus interviews he's done. And, you know, I've done a series of things. There was a podcast series called The Frost Tapes and now a TV series called David Frost Versus, which came out earlier this year on MSNBC. It's not on a streamer yet in the US, but it will be soon. And and it was to really try and go back into those moments in history uh where dad had a particular front row seat to them unfolding. And you know, it's been a a >> ask you about the most famous example. Um I don't think I was born I was not born yet. You certainly weren't. Um, but the Frost Nixon interview, which of course there's a famous movie um about that episode, but I think your dad is widely credited with the person who basically broke the story wide open when talking with U. President Nixon and getting Nixon to a point where he just couldn't take it anymore. And maybe you could tell us a little bit more. You know, we have a young audience on YouTube, but totally um this is probably fascinating to them. Yeah, I think this is the most famous interview he did because he sort of became a part of history with it. Um, and so obviously Nixon was forced to resign 1974 because of largely because of the Watergate scandal. To be clear, dad >> didn't break that story which broke a year or so before that was, you know, amazing journalists like Woodward and Bernste. Exactly. Um but but dad was very much involved in in the US broadcast media at the time and covering it as it broke but he didn't break the story. Nixon was forced to resign in ' 74. Uh and then famously his his vice President Gerald Ford who became president immediately pardoned him. So he never stood trial for his crimes. >> And dad took on the media establishment the networks here NBC, ABC and CBS to get the broadcast interview with Nixon. He outbid them >> because he was someone was going to get him to talk. >> Someone was going to get him to talk and it took three years. It was n by the time the interviews happened it was 1977 though he did the deal in 75. >> I may have been born then. >> Yeah, I was I was going to say when you were saying that really I may have been okay. >> And then he outbid the networks. He paid Nixon $600,000 to get the exclusive interviews which inflation adjusted is 2.1 million. And then and he's just a presenter dad, you know, he's not a business at this point. >> And then because he outbid the networks, they were so pissed off they didn't want to buy it off him. So dad then had to build together 140 local TV stations to distribute it. He kind of built a cable channel before it became the case. >> That's wild. >> And was so and then had to >> because otherwise he would have put up all that money for for for nothing. It would have been an underwhelming thing. But that that process was incredibly expensive, too. So the 2-year process was, you know, cost him about $1.5 million in total, which, you know, inflation adjusted, then you're, you know, you're closing in on $10 million. Dad was on the hook for and then he sat down for what ended up being 28 hours across four weeks of recording sessions with Nixon. And he had to get Nixon to admit wrongdoing and to apologize. 28 28 hours sounds like you can get somebody to admit to just about anything. >> Well, I mean, thank God he paid so much money to secure that time and he wore him down over time. >> By the way, those 28 hours I've watched from start to finish and I don't recommend it. It's pretty dry. >> Do we have do we have something? >> But this bit I think is breathtaking. >> So, let's let's let's show people um what we're talking about. >> In the Houston plan, it's stated very clearly use of this technique is clearly illegal. It amounts to burglary. Um, why did you approve a plan that included an element like that that was clearly illegal? Yes. Well, burglary is the word, but uh another way to put it is that uh you get the information that you need. There are some actions that have to be covert uh by by covert. Let me put it this way or in this case illegal. Well, let me say that it is legal in in my view. So, what in a sense you're saying is that there are certain situations and the Houston plan or that part of it was one of them where the president can decide that it's in the best interest of the nation or something and do something illegal. [Music] Well, when the president does it, that means that it is not illegal by definition. Exactly. >> That's the That's So that's the money shot. That >> That's the moment that people were >> That's So now we've got Bob Woodward there reflecting on it. But that is the moment after, by the way, the first half of those 28 hours didn't go that well for dad. And so the pressure was building and that was the moment where it turned where he knew he had a line that would resonate. In fact, there they were talking about the Houston plan, not not Watergate. And as it goes on, he gets him to admit wrongdoing and apologize to the American people about about Watergate. And you know, >> but the poker face, there was no your your dad did not do like a gotcha like there it is. He just he kept going very calmly. >> So that very moment I remember him talking about years later and I remember him saying >> essentially the gravy train had arrived and you wanted it to keep coming and more to come. So you don't want to say aha. You don't want to be like, >> can you imagine this serotonin fireworks going on in his brain at that moment >> inside? He's thinking, I thought I was going to have to sell my house right now. This is the first moment I think I'm going to be able to keep my house, but you have to keep it together. And honestly, you know, there's different styles to interviewing and different things at work. Dad, underbelievable pressure stuck to his guns, stuck to his DNA, and he got there with Nixon. And then the pressure on him going into it, >> you couldn't you literally can't make it up. He was he mortgaged his life >> to do that interview >> and he stuck to his style of interview and it worked. >> Who was in the movie? I I I >> Michael Sheen played dad and Frank Langela played Nixon. >> Oh, Langella is Oh, he's fantastic. >> One of the greatest actors ever. >> Oh, and and do you know what the two of them were inhabited those roles for three years because it was a play in London to great success for about a year, then it moved to Broadway for about a year and then it was a film and then you had all the opening nights and stuff. It was and and we we used to my I was at university around that period of time so it was like late teens 20s was great fun it was came in late in dad's life so it gave him a wonderful boost because you know kind of made him a sort of pseudo movie star right in the twilight of his life >> and obviously my brothers and I were like signed up to all the opening nights and premieres and awards nights and whenever we'd see Michael at any of them we'd always joke being like dad how are you doing you know which he didn't really find that funny but he had to go along with it >> it's so funny how these like it's so Funny how like we're still debating what the president can and can can't do if they quote unquote believe it's in the best interest of the country. Not for us to get into a whole political discussion, but um but it's eerie that >> it's eerie the echoes and I don't think it's an accident that George Clooney brought back the play um Good Night and Good Luck. >> I love that movie. I haven't seen the play. >> So it's a film, but they they made it a play this summer and Clooney starred in it >> and uh I don't think that it's random obviously. I think there's we still live with this issue to this day. >> Yeah. Well, someone should bring back Frost Nixon to Broadway. >> Uh I would go um what else do we want to do? I do want to ask you about uh I do want to ask you about the new show on Sky News. Just for our American viewers and listeners, um this is a really big show. Like this is the one th this is >> you're like Kathy Lee Gford. I the >> equivalent something like that. Yeah. The uh the Listen, it's a dream come true. I I uh I grew up you know, obviously with my father doing breakfast television in the UK and I can't quite believe that that's where I'm at now myself. And uh I think there's a huge opportunity. I think that I think Sky News has all of the ingredients to be the biggest network in the UK. And I I think that Sophie and I, who's my new co-anchor, can harness that. And I think there's lots of attractive things about it. more free flowing, less scripted, warmer, uh, intelligent but inviting. But, and I think we can bring the biggest guests in the world. Yeah. From from British politics to American business. >> My bag. You just you just g >> You're on, man. You're on. But, but I think the biggest thing is is unleashing and harnessing the talent internal at Sky News, which which I think is a sleeping giant. >> That's That's awesome. And I think Do we have something from Sky News? Yeah. Uh well, listen, I I want to tell you I love when I see you back state side. We had a lot of fun on uh closing bell, you and I. And um especially when I was in person and uh it's anytime I see you back on CNBC, I'm just I'm so excited about it. So, >> well, I really appreciate the kind words. I really appreciate joining the podcast as well because I love listening and I I love the way you guys have harnessed great content and minds in such a kind of conversational way. It's I take lessons from it and it's been a pleasure joining you. Well, good luck with the podcast and uh thanks for stopping by and let's do this again. >> Would love to. Cheers, Josh. >> Thank you so much, guys. This has been uh uh Wilfrid Frost, ladies and gentlemen. Make sure that you are following this new podcast. What's it called? >> The Master Investor podcast with Wilfred Frost. It's available wherever you get your podcast. >> All right. Thanks for watching. We'll talk to you soon. >> Thanks, Josh.
What British Investors Should Learn From America | LFTC
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[Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Live from the Compound. My guest today needs no introduction and I'm actually I don't want to say embarrassed, but I'm sheepishly about to do an introduction. And the reason why is you are a professional at this and uh I've only I only do this in my spare time, but I'm I'm going to do give my best shot. Wilfrid Frost is a British business journalist and television presenter known for anchoring Sky News Breakfast. He spent 5 years as a fund manager at Newton Investment Management, which I did not know about. Um, before launching your broadcast career in 2011, you guys know Wilfred primarily as the host of CNBC's Worldwide Exchange, which aired from 3:00 in the morning till uh 5:00 in the morning. >> 5 till 6. >> 5 till 6. All right. Um, but you were the co-host of the closing bell with Sarah Eisen. I was a weekly regular. We had the time of our lives. I think that ran from 2018. Try to remember when it ended. >> I did I did 18 to 22 on that. Four years. Yeah. >> Okay. All right. Uh, Wilfford is here to discuss the current state of markets as well as his new weekly show, The Master Investor Podcast, where he interviews legendary investors and business leaders to offer listeners exclusive investing insights and ambitionfueled inspiration. Did you write that? >> No, I didn't. You guys wrote that. I'm going to take that off. >> Pretty badass. >> Yeah. >> Um, that um that title uh and I looked at your guest list. I haven't listened to all the episodes. It's pretty apt. You have Ray Dallio, you uh I love the Liz Anne Saunders episode from last week, especially because you gave me a shout out uh during that. You're getting some incredible guests and obviously that's a testament to the work that you did while you were here covering business and meeting all these folks. >> Yeah. And we had David Solomon as well. We had Dan Niles. >> Tone it down. No, we got we got it. >> Um and uh lots more to come. I mean, the the thing that I'm so excited about the podcast is pretty much everyone has said yes that I've asked. >> Okay. >> Obviously, I haven't scheduled them all yet. It's a weekly drop. Um, and I'm I think that's I'd like to think two things. One is, as you said, you know, a testament to the groundwork one puts in um and uh and building those contacts over time. But I think that there's an interesting offering. So the tagline that I came up with that you guys have just improved with uh giving Josh the script there. >> Unbelievable. >> Unbelievable is you know where we celebrate and learn from the success of the greatest investors, business leaders and politicians in the world. Giving you our listeners the edge. And I think in the UK there's been something lost about that in the last decade or two. I don't think it applied when I grew up. And in in my six and a half years in America when I moved back I kind of was a bit disappointed and surprised but the amount to which we seem to want to criticize success rather than celebrate and learn from it. So that's kind of the heart of what I'm doing there. >> Well, it really seems like you're in a position to bring that those animal spirits back in in the UK. Um, I I feel that if you can build an audience of people who have found huge success investing, and these are not people that they got lucky or their brother-in-law tipped them off to a coin or they accidentally bought Nvidia and forgot to sell it, but like people that over decades have established credibility, have made money for a lot of other people, not just themselves, have invested for on behalf of hospitals and pension funds. Those are the type of people that I think do offer the type of example where your viewers who are maybe only semi-interested in investing might become inspired. So I I love that for you. >> Absolutely right. And I think you know it is important because when you have inflation at, you know, 11% in the UK a couple of years ago, people are losing money if they're just sitting in cash. Let alone I think for the next decade we're probably going to have over 3%. The latest print in the UK was 3.8%. you know, people have to be smart with this or else they're actually losing. It's not just a, you know, people don't want to take risk perhaps in the UK, but actually if you're just standing still, you're losing. So, I think that's a point and, you know, our our listeners after 8 weeks are roughly half UK US. It's it's definitely not just for the UK audience, but I think it gives a slightly different perspective. Me doing it in this format compared to what I used to do for CNBC. It's long form, 45 minutes or so, 30 to 45 minutes an episode, and it's not too tied to the short-term news cycle. It's life lessons from these people as well as you know politicians. We had Jack Lou so far we've got Liz Trust >> former Treasury Secretary Jack Lou. >> We've got Liz Truss coming up. We've got Nick Kle coming up. Um two former British politicians who have different perspectives on the economy and and business. So I think it's life lessons as well as investing tips ultimately either way if you listen I think will give you an edge. >> Uh as you're speaking I'm just looking at the Footsie 100. I think a lot of listeners or or viewers of this would be surprised to learn that it's actually doing quite well. >> They'd be like the what? >> Yeah. >> What are we talking about? >> So these are >> year to date. These are the largest most consequential companies in England. And you guys have a stock market now. >> It's depressing that you have to describe what the Footsie 100 is, but you probably I sort of do. >> Yeah. But it's it's it's very rare. >> Yeah. uh in my entire time in in the markets which was since I graduated in 2008 that we're outperforming the US because the US has been the only game in town. I mean I think you still are the only game in town to be clear but uh in a relative sense it's it's not been a bad year uh in terms of stock market performance and yeah it's a similar kind of theme you're seeing here. You're seeing a bit of the the value or quality pick up relative to the growth. We don't have much growth but you know there's a price for everything. >> Well, right. So what you lack is the type of like um globally dominant technology giants that have been one of the driving forces of earnings growth in and market cap growth. So Nvidia I believe is larger than the entire Footsie. >> Oh easily. I mean the 4.4 4 trillion. I think I think you've got five companies bigger than right >> separately in bigger than the Footsie 100 combined. >> And then and then I was looking at some of the components of the Footsie in preparation for this and I see like I see companies like uh Rolls-Royce which people associate with the cars but I I think BMW makes the cars now. They don't even do that. They're making mini nuclear reactors and jet engines and it's tech. >> Oh, we historically we were fantastic engineer you know engineers. We we developed Concord which flew quicker across the Atlantic in 1970s than it than people can do today. So it's a great shame. Uh but you know this comes back to it. It is in our DNA. Britain as a mindset towards success in capitalism I've always thought is somewhere between continental Europe and the US. And I growing up always believed, and maybe this is because my father had such an affinity with America and the household I grew up in, but that we were much closer to the US than we were to continental Europe. I still believe that if you look at our history, if you look at our DNA, you look at some of those success stories, but there's just been some kind of something that's held it back. And and I I think it's there. I I I will always be a massive long-term bull on the United Kingdom. Um but but we definitely have slowed down of late. >> I think first things first stopping the listings from leaving is should be like priority one. And the way you do that is with less ownorous regulation. Um but like you look at there's a company called Ferguson trades here in the United States. It was a US company acquired by a British company. I think it spent 50 years as a British company and then they left and relisted here because they looked at the multiple that they were getting on their earnings and they looked at their US-based competitors and they said, "This is ridiculous. We should at least be getting a similar multiple to what our competitors get. Hasn't worked. Still very cheap stock, but I think we want to stop that for you." And then I also think the rebirth of the IPO is something that the public gets excited for. >> Yeah. So it's interesting. I think the listing problem is almost the kind of public face of the issue, but I don't think it's the core issue because it is just a fact that you know capital multiple in the S&Ps what 22 times versus 12 13 times in the UK. So it's very hard to argue against relisting if you're a business that that is kind of comparable to what's in the other country, >> right? uh particularly if you're about to IPO and you know some of the fintech successes in the UK are choosing to to IPO over here it it's it's a problem it'd be great to correct but the key thing is where these companies are headquartered and based and can we make sure that if you are the next ARM holdings for example which is our one big tech success story of the last decade listed here >> listed here after being bought by a Japanese firm and private for five or six years >> um can they develop and stay physically base in the UK because that is more important to me. I think that you want to make sure we remain and I think this is a question mark at the moment attractive to the best global talent in the world and most importantly to our domestic talent and and if you can show those people this is a place where your ideas will be rewarded and you can have a great career then we're still fine long term and and the listing thing is is a problem. we need to address it because it raises the you know working capital cost of the company there if you're going to have to raise capital and it cost you more these are all factors but you know I think worse would be is if you see ARM it chose to list in the US but if it says we're closing 50% of our research facility in Cambridge and we're moving it to the Cambridge here do you know what I mean that that would be >> such an important it's such an important point because when I'm invested in a stock and I look at who's the CEO and I try to understand the family tree like where did this person come from. So, one of my bigger investments is in Uber and DAR of course comes from like >> I remember you talking about that >> that family tree with Expedia and Barry Diller like you look at um all these companies now SAS software companies where the founder came out of Google um you look at like in the semiconductor industry there's this whole chain of people how they got to where they are now you kind of need that and it takes generations but the sooner you restart that process Um because you're not just giving birth to companies that then list their IPO. Think about all of the executives and engineers at these tech firms. At at a certain point, they want to leave and do their own startup. And you want there to be an ecosystem so that they can actually staff that startup locally, not just go go out to uh you know, Palo Alto. >> Yeah. And what we've been poor at in the tech industry in particular, I think in the last 5 to 10 years is allowing the early like unicorn type success stories to scale in the UK. >> Right. >> So, so actually we've got some of the brightest minds. Our education I think is still very very good and >> we don't need no education >> and people well that's true but people are coming out British song but the people are coming up with you know some of these ideas and you're developing these companies but then can they get the access to capital and talent to really scale and you know they're being picked off by by American PE and again they're still sort of headquartered there but they need to be able to grow further. I'm curious what your thoughts are about who the audience is for business uh financial media and business in the UK. The great thing about your podcast is people all over the world are going to listen to it and I'm sure they already are. >> Well, it's it's a it's a really interesting question. So, you know, I I was I'll rewind the clock a bit. When I moved out here December 2015, I I had been two years at CNBC London, came out here, I was blown away by the scale of interest in what is a sort of niche area of journalism, business news. And I think in America, CNBC and its its its rivals, which it leaves in the dust, I love CNBC. um you know fighting for maybe 25% potential audience of the population who are just people who are interested in success want to be successful themselves but they don't necessar >> it's tens of millions of households >> tens of millions of households >> that that would tune in if you can get them to pay attention >> and and and these are people who didn't have to work in finance but they're they may have made their money in any area but they want to be interested in the stock market and and success stories and ambition and and celebrating all of those things I I think in the UK pay the sort of CNBC and Bloomberg are fighting for 1%. It's literally just the people that work in finance who might have it on in the office but probably not at home. And so there's a big big gap between the two. I I actually think in the UK there's much more than that one or 2% of the population out there that definitely >> but but it's probably not 25 and I think it's 10 to 15. And I think by the way that market is also served as if it is only one or 2%. So I think you know here there's fierce competition for a podcast like this as uh you know present company very much included in that sense and so so I think it's a big big chunk of people and we'll find out in the weeks ahead. By the way, the early numbers make make me think it's right that that that no that I just think there's a lot of people that that want to celebrate success and not >> just always had this like tone of envy and criticism which you know do you know I your your episode with Tom Lee recently you guys were talking about this about people that got jealous of crypto successes you know by the way I'm the person that hasn't bought every single >> last you're the last buyer >> I'm the last buyer >> okay >> but I'm not jealous of any of the success stories I've got some friends that have made a fortune from it, paid off their mortgages. I think fantastic, good for you. I wish I joined you, but I'm not envious that you'd done that. And I think way more people have that kind of mindset than than have almost sort of publicized in the UK. >> So, I want to ask you if you think this is true. I've been to Europe. I've spoken with people that work in the financial services industry. I've spoken with a lot of financial adviserss. Um I once went to an event, British company put on this event on the continent and uh they I guess they assembled financial adviserss from every European country in Berlin for 3 days on asset allocation and basically fund managers pitching. >> Berlin's fun, right? >> The audience Berlin was fun. Um, what I heard from from people, and I know you you see Britain as being more similar to the United States than than the rest of Europe, but what I what I heard, including from British financial adviserss, is that as a financial adviser, it's sort of really hard to get fired because most of them work at banks. And these banks are 400 years old. And the families who are wealthy now are the same families who were wealthy 400 years ago. it's people that had land effectively. Um, and so as a result, the the advisers get switched around, but the family never leaves the bank. And so they sort of see themselves as not as entrepreneurial as advisers in America. They sort of see themselves more as, well, the relationship is really between this family in Amsterdam and this bank that they've been at for 200 years, and I'm the part that can get kicked out. So what I have to do is not take too much risk. Um whereas here in America, we have to take risk on behalf of our clients. They expect us to do so. They don't like it when it goes poorly. But we do reap the benefit of having made people a lot of money when it goes well. >> And I just didn't really hear that mindset in talking to British and European financial adviserss. Am I like uh overgeneralizing or do you think there's some element of that? I've never heard that specifically, but everything you're saying kind of tallies. I can I can totally >> believe that. And I I'd say it slightly differently, which is, you know, so I started my career in finance at Newton Investment Management, and it was it was your classic slightly stale, loved everyone I worked with there, but slightly stale, longonly asset manager. Now, I I love the way my investment knowledge has kind of played out because it was a great learning tool. I did all the classic DCFs very, you know, it was it starting companies. >> Are we going to switch our position from Vodafone to British Telecom? We'll spend a year debating and by the time we shift, one's moved 5%, the others move 5% and then they stay flat for a decade anyway. Like but but it was all very good grounding. And then I switched to to the Asia desk which is a little bit more dynamic, but it still wasn't particularly dynamic. And then I came out here for CNBC where people like Tom Lee, people like you are are being quicker on on the money. You're you're more focused on things like momentum and sentiment. And I the first year I'm thinking, sorry guys, you know, this is a cheaper stock, so it's better than the other one or or whatever, you know. And so I think I think there's definitely that difference. The traditional asset management industry is the same as it is here, but you don't have as big of a new retail trader sentiment and you don't have that influencing what the market does as much and thus allowing you guys to build success by looking at that and and giving it a weight in how you put up your decisions. >> Is there a cultural difference though in the willingness to take risk that can be overcome? >> Definitely. But I and and the willingness to take risk I think is again somewhere between the average in continental Europe and and and and in the US. How do you overcome that? It's hard. >> Yeah. >> You know, and I'm not going to s sit there on the podcast and tell people to take risk, but I'm going to give them as much of an education and the tools if they so desire that hopefully they'll be in a better place to do it. But I mean, yeah, it's it's an interesting >> part of it may part of it may be structural. Sometime in the 1990s, we basically decided as a society here in the US that we were going to put the onus of retirement directly on the household. So, we went away from these like sort of um defined benefit pension schemes uh to fund retirement and we said instead, ladies and gentlemen, this is the 401k. You choose your own funds. You make your own decisions about how much exposure to risk versus how little and uh it's it's it's on you. The company is not going to pay you until until you're 85 years old. Like there's no pension anymore. >> Well, we did that too maybe five or so years later. >> Okay. >> And yet we're stuck in between both. So we have much fewer defined contribution pen, you know, beneficiaries of of those types of pensions now. And yet the defined benefit pension isn't as embraced as it is here. So, so that's a great snapshot for the difference when I moved here versus the UK. People here are so actively engaged on their own 401k >> almost because they have to be. >> Yeah. Whereas in the in the UK, a people don't probably save enough into it in the first place, but they won't have the slightest clue about what's in it. >> It'll be managed by some arm of the corporate that they work for, right? not even necessarily in the asset management which will be outsourced again to some kind of pension fund manager. >> It'll be pretty heavily in bonds as well. Um so so it's a whole mindset that needs to change. >> Yeah. I wanted to ask you so my take on the way finance is covered here um on the part of big media because I want to talk to you about what you think about um you mentioned being bullish on traditional media, bullish on the news. So, the way I've always thought of it is um CNBC covers the markets like sports. >> Yeah. >> I've always looked at it like it's ESPN for money. Totally. >> Which is what I love about it and I think that's what the viewers love. >> Um Bloomberg is a little bit more B2B and I almost feel like they are covering markets through the lens of of data and analysis because that's their main business. And then Fox Business really seems to cover it almost as like a different version of politics. >> Um which is fine. there's room for everybody. Y >> um >> in the UK you just don't have that many outlets that are specifically focused on markets. Um but you are bullish on the concept of traditional news. Maybe not specifically cable itself, but just like sort of having these news outlets that are large, dominant, and that do a really good job of covering whatever it is politics. Oh, I'm I'm really bullish on live TV, particularly relative to how it's priced. If there was a price for all all of this, you know, obviously you can look at some of the stocks which trade off that ITV in the UK is on a sort of eight times PE. It'll be really interesting to see what PE uh that you know, the new Comcast uh spin-off Versent starts off at. >> So, Versent will be MSNBC, >> CNBC, >> CNBC, and the Golf Channel. and and I bet it'll start on a very low P and I you know depend everything has to have a price I'd be a buyer of that potentially but but my point and you know my day job in the UK is mainstream news sky news is mainstream and the podcast is on the side um I I think that expectations are so low one you know Sky News you can't trade is owned by Sky which is owned by Comcast but if I think if it was trading right now it'd be on a very low PE and I think that's wrong because all of the sort of new media that has evolved, let's say, over the last decade has had so much money poured into it. So, there's, you know, the the the high quality drama and docs that can be on Netflix or Disney Plus or or HBO or wherever. Yeah. >> There's the kind of newsish type rivals of these types of podcasts, which are all fantastic, but you it's hard to see how those >> new media threats could have more investment in the next decade relative to old media than they've had. >> Oh, that's interesting. And and I think live television outside of sports has been really hollowed out and and there's always a need for it. Now I ex totally agree with your framing of CNBC which is it covers it like sports. So it makes there always be a need for that niche audience which is quite a sizable niche tuned >> to stay tuned in. >> Yeah. And and in mainstream news, you don't have that reason as often, but there will always be a requirement for live television news. And the competition is lower than it used to be because it's been hollowed out. And you see that here there's cost cutting of the big cable news channels here. >> So if something live TV really resonates, it no longer has as much competition. >> Exactly. And then all of a sudden you've got pricing power on on the advertisements that are going to run during it because it becomes bigger uh as a result of not being as competitive. >> Exactly. Right. And I and I think that you know on top of that we're about to relaunch the breakfast show my my new co-anchor and I Sophie Ridge in in they haven't announced the date yet but it's in in the next couple of months. I think the date gets announced next week. Um it'll be in in the sort of late part of the year. And I think that we can just give it a bit more energy and freshness as well, which makes a big difference. You know, I think if you if you throw some I think, you know, our aim will be to to bring a a warmth and a relatability to the breakfast show, intelligent conversation, but in a very inviting way with a sort of unscripted jeopardy to it. So I this is the thing that live television >> unex unexpected moment >> has that podcast don't >> you know the viewer knows that it's live whether that's the two presenters chatting and something going wrong or right or funny >> right >> a reporter joining with a report from the field or in the studio or a live interview particularly when you're holding someone to account a business leader or politician yeah >> there is a jeopardy >> about it being live and not knowing what's going to happen that 10-minute conversation could contain less in it and it would still be more attractive to the viewer than a recorded 10-minute version of it because it's live. And you know, I I have ma mainly I think that because of my own experience in TV, but also from watching back, you know, the tens of thousands of interviews my my late father did, you know, that aspect of it being live, the unpredictability about it. I think the viewer knows that and they're more drawn in all else equal. So, I'm glad you brought that up because I wanted I wanted to talk about um I wanted to talk about the the legacy of uh of what your father accomplished as arguably one of the most important television journalists or maybe just journalists period of the 20th century. For people who are unaware, what could we tell them about David Frost and um sort of the the the life's work that you're now doing to remind people of how important journalism is? >> Yeah. So, dad um started on TV aged 22 in 1962 >> and and continued for over 50 years till the day he died uh in uh >> it's incredible >> 2013. Yeah. So, 51 years on on screen and did it you know across actually not just two continents because he was pretty big in Australia and the Middle East as well like across the world but particularly UK and US and across so many different genres as well. you know, he wasn't just a business journalist or a politics journalist or an entertainment or sports like he and anyone, you know, you could think of in the last 50 years he interviewed you the I think you were off that week. I was listening to the episode and Michael and the team were discussing when Hulk Hogan died. >> Yeah. >> About um you know, people who were globally famous like Hulk Hogan was and they listed the other people that they thought were in that category in the last 50 years. I think every single one of the ones they listed, dad had interviewed at times, multiple times, you know, like the Beatles, Ali, Elton John, you know, the it's extraordinary the spread that dad did that with. And, you know, after he died in 2013, I I, you know, picked up the reigns of his his company. And I bought back and done various deals to digitize, catalog, and buy the rights of of interviews he's done. I now control about 80% of the 10,000 plus interviews he's done. And, you know, I've done a series of things. There was a podcast series called The Frost Tapes and now a TV series called David Frost Versus, which came out earlier this year on MSNBC. It's not on a streamer yet in the US, but it will be soon. And and it was to really try and go back into those moments in history uh where dad had a particular front row seat to them unfolding. And you know, it's been a a >> ask you about the most famous example. Um I don't think I was born I was not born yet. You certainly weren't. Um, but the Frost Nixon interview, which of course there's a famous movie um about that episode, but I think your dad is widely credited with the person who basically broke the story wide open when talking with U. President Nixon and getting Nixon to a point where he just couldn't take it anymore. And maybe you could tell us a little bit more. You know, we have a young audience on YouTube, but totally um this is probably fascinating to them. Yeah, I think this is the most famous interview he did because he sort of became a part of history with it. Um, and so obviously Nixon was forced to resign 1974 because of largely because of the Watergate scandal. To be clear, dad >> didn't break that story which broke a year or so before that was, you know, amazing journalists like Woodward and Bernste. Exactly. Um but but dad was very much involved in in the US broadcast media at the time and covering it as it broke but he didn't break the story. Nixon was forced to resign in ' 74. Uh and then famously his his vice President Gerald Ford who became president immediately pardoned him. So he never stood trial for his crimes. >> And dad took on the media establishment the networks here NBC, ABC and CBS to get the broadcast interview with Nixon. He outbid them >> because he was someone was going to get him to talk. >> Someone was going to get him to talk and it took three years. It was n by the time the interviews happened it was 1977 though he did the deal in 75. >> I may have been born then. >> Yeah, I was I was going to say when you were saying that really I may have been okay. >> And then he outbid the networks. He paid Nixon $600,000 to get the exclusive interviews which inflation adjusted is 2.1 million. And then and he's just a presenter dad, you know, he's not a business at this point. >> And then because he outbid the networks, they were so pissed off they didn't want to buy it off him. So dad then had to build together 140 local TV stations to distribute it. He kind of built a cable channel before it became the case. >> That's wild. >> And was so and then had to >> because otherwise he would have put up all that money for for for nothing. It would have been an underwhelming thing. But that that process was incredibly expensive, too. So the 2-year process was, you know, cost him about $1.5 million in total, which, you know, inflation adjusted, then you're, you know, you're closing in on $10 million. Dad was on the hook for and then he sat down for what ended up being 28 hours across four weeks of recording sessions with Nixon. And he had to get Nixon to admit wrongdoing and to apologize. 28 28 hours sounds like you can get somebody to admit to just about anything. >> Well, I mean, thank God he paid so much money to secure that time and he wore him down over time. >> By the way, those 28 hours I've watched from start to finish and I don't recommend it. It's pretty dry. >> Do we have do we have something? >> But this bit I think is breathtaking. >> So, let's let's let's show people um what we're talking about. >> In the Houston plan, it's stated very clearly use of this technique is clearly illegal. It amounts to burglary. Um, why did you approve a plan that included an element like that that was clearly illegal? Yes. Well, burglary is the word, but uh another way to put it is that uh you get the information that you need. There are some actions that have to be covert uh by by covert. Let me put it this way or in this case illegal. Well, let me say that it is legal in in my view. So, what in a sense you're saying is that there are certain situations and the Houston plan or that part of it was one of them where the president can decide that it's in the best interest of the nation or something and do something illegal. [Music] Well, when the president does it, that means that it is not illegal by definition. Exactly. >> That's the That's So that's the money shot. That >> That's the moment that people were >> That's So now we've got Bob Woodward there reflecting on it. But that is the moment after, by the way, the first half of those 28 hours didn't go that well for dad. And so the pressure was building and that was the moment where it turned where he knew he had a line that would resonate. In fact, there they were talking about the Houston plan, not not Watergate. And as it goes on, he gets him to admit wrongdoing and apologize to the American people about about Watergate. And you know, >> but the poker face, there was no your your dad did not do like a gotcha like there it is. He just he kept going very calmly. >> So that very moment I remember him talking about years later and I remember him saying >> essentially the gravy train had arrived and you wanted it to keep coming and more to come. So you don't want to say aha. You don't want to be like, >> can you imagine this serotonin fireworks going on in his brain at that moment >> inside? He's thinking, I thought I was going to have to sell my house right now. This is the first moment I think I'm going to be able to keep my house, but you have to keep it together. And honestly, you know, there's different styles to interviewing and different things at work. Dad, underbelievable pressure stuck to his guns, stuck to his DNA, and he got there with Nixon. And then the pressure on him going into it, >> you couldn't you literally can't make it up. He was he mortgaged his life >> to do that interview >> and he stuck to his style of interview and it worked. >> Who was in the movie? I I I >> Michael Sheen played dad and Frank Langela played Nixon. >> Oh, Langella is Oh, he's fantastic. >> One of the greatest actors ever. >> Oh, and and do you know what the two of them were inhabited those roles for three years because it was a play in London to great success for about a year, then it moved to Broadway for about a year and then it was a film and then you had all the opening nights and stuff. It was and and we we used to my I was at university around that period of time so it was like late teens 20s was great fun it was came in late in dad's life so it gave him a wonderful boost because you know kind of made him a sort of pseudo movie star right in the twilight of his life >> and obviously my brothers and I were like signed up to all the opening nights and premieres and awards nights and whenever we'd see Michael at any of them we'd always joke being like dad how are you doing you know which he didn't really find that funny but he had to go along with it >> it's so funny how these like it's so Funny how like we're still debating what the president can and can can't do if they quote unquote believe it's in the best interest of the country. Not for us to get into a whole political discussion, but um but it's eerie that >> it's eerie the echoes and I don't think it's an accident that George Clooney brought back the play um Good Night and Good Luck. >> I love that movie. I haven't seen the play. >> So it's a film, but they they made it a play this summer and Clooney starred in it >> and uh I don't think that it's random obviously. I think there's we still live with this issue to this day. >> Yeah. Well, someone should bring back Frost Nixon to Broadway. >> Uh I would go um what else do we want to do? I do want to ask you about uh I do want to ask you about the new show on Sky News. Just for our American viewers and listeners, um this is a really big show. Like this is the one th this is >> you're like Kathy Lee Gford. I the >> equivalent something like that. Yeah. The uh the Listen, it's a dream come true. I I uh I grew up you know, obviously with my father doing breakfast television in the UK and I can't quite believe that that's where I'm at now myself. And uh I think there's a huge opportunity. I think that I think Sky News has all of the ingredients to be the biggest network in the UK. And I I think that Sophie and I, who's my new co-anchor, can harness that. And I think there's lots of attractive things about it. more free flowing, less scripted, warmer, uh, intelligent but inviting. But, and I think we can bring the biggest guests in the world. Yeah. From from British politics to American business. >> My bag. You just you just g >> You're on, man. You're on. But, but I think the biggest thing is is unleashing and harnessing the talent internal at Sky News, which which I think is a sleeping giant. >> That's That's awesome. And I think Do we have something from Sky News? Yeah. Uh well, listen, I I want to tell you I love when I see you back state side. We had a lot of fun on uh closing bell, you and I. And um especially when I was in person and uh it's anytime I see you back on CNBC, I'm just I'm so excited about it. So, >> well, I really appreciate the kind words. I really appreciate joining the podcast as well because I love listening and I I love the way you guys have harnessed great content and minds in such a kind of conversational way. It's I take lessons from it and it's been a pleasure joining you. Well, good luck with the podcast and uh thanks for stopping by and let's do this again. >> Would love to. Cheers, Josh. >> Thank you so much, guys. This has been uh uh Wilfrid Frost, ladies and gentlemen. Make sure that you are following this new podcast. What's it called? >> The Master Investor podcast with Wilfred Frost. It's available wherever you get your podcast. >> All right. Thanks for watching. We'll talk to you soon. >> Thanks, Josh.