GOLD Is Your Monetary Doomsday Clock | Egon von Greyerz
Summary
Gold and Silver Market Dynamics: The podcast discusses the ongoing strong performance of gold and silver, with gold trading over $4,100 an ounce and silver around $51, highlighting significant market activity and volatility.
Wealth Preservation Strategy: Egon von Greyerz emphasizes gold as the best instrument for wealth preservation, advocating for significant investment in gold since the early 2000s, and suggests that gold's value will continue to rise as fiat currencies decline.
End of a Monetary Era: The conversation highlights the belief that we are at the end of a monetary era, with fiat currencies losing value rapidly, leading to a potential collapse and increased demand for gold and silver as safe havens.
Exponential Phase of Precious Metals: According to von Greyerz, we are entering an exponential phase where gold and silver prices will accelerate due to the collapsing world economy and increased money printing.
Investment Recommendations: The podcast suggests a shift in investment strategy, with major banks now recommending a significant allocation to gold, indicating a broader acceptance of gold as a critical component of investment portfolios.
Silver's Potential: Silver is described as "gold on steroids," expected to rise faster than gold, with potential for significant gains, although it is more volatile and not suitable for all investors.
Global Demand and Supply Constraints: There is a massive increase in demand for gold and silver, driven by institutional investors and central banks, particularly in the East, with limited supply suggesting higher prices are necessary to meet demand.
Future Economic Challenges: The discussion forecasts difficult times ahead, with potential failures in banking, government, and social systems, emphasizing the importance of protecting wealth through physical gold and silver.
Transcript
The gold and silver trade knows no stopping. We're trading over $4,100 an ounce in gold. Silver was at $53 earlier this morning. It is now closer to $51. Mr. Slammy uh I I showed up again in the market this morning. And I'm starting to believe that this gentleman lives in London. Uh cuz it all happened around 8:00 a.m. my time. And it was quite obvious that somebody must have entered the office and hit the sell button. Lots of pressure uh on on gold and silver this morning, but it was bought. So, we need to discuss what is happening in the gold and silver markets, but I also would like to dissect and understand and discuss the fundamentals behind the gold price move. I've invited a fantastic guest to discuss this. It's Egon Fayat. He's the founder and managing director over at Funayats Gold and I'm really looking forward to hearing his insights. Before I switch over to my guest though, hit that like and subscribe button. It helps us out tremendously invite fantastic guests like Egon onto the program and we much much appreciate. Thank you so much for doing that. Now, Egon, it is great to have you back on the program. Exciting times we live in, don't we? >> Certainly is, Kai. And, uh, you know, I'm an old fox in this game. I mean, I didn't start my life in in financial markets directly or or in in gold, of course. I mean, that was something that I started at the the end of the 90s. Um, and for the simple reason, you know, I've been through I've been in banking, I've been in corporate life in the UK. Um but um then I decided that the world was going to be in a mess and uh it was uh the right time to start thinking about wealth preservation. Um and of course gold was no better instrument uh well was the best instrument there is for wealth preservation clearly. Um and uh there therefore we focused on going into to the gold market in a major way and and we we entered it at 2002 at $300. Uh and we recommended at the time to our investors and for ourselves also at least 50% of financial assets. So this here we are now uh about three uh 3,000 3,00 4,100 something like it's >> $4,000 uh dollars later. Yeah. Um almost from from the 300 where we enter the market in a bigger way. You know, you talk about this fluctuation this morning. To be honest with you, I don't care the slightest bit about fluctuations. I I have from the beginning been absolutely certain that we are at the end of a monetary era and therefore the the currencies will be destroyed and since we measure gold in uh currencies that that are dying uh then it's easy of course uh because uh go the gold price always goes up. I mean it's totally wrong to measure gold really in in fiat money uh because you it would be better to measure it in chickens or cows instead because you know at least they have a more stable value than the currencies. So you know we are at the end of a monetary era and they always end badly and as you know uh the uh currency has gone down by 99% since 71 when Nixon closed the gold window. So we got 1% left uh to totally uh take them down to zero and that will happen. But remember that zero is 100% from here. You know that last percent is 100% from here. That means that you know there's a long way to go and a lot's going to happen and it will be absolutely horrible times for the world. We're always told our investors, you know, don't wish for the gold price to go up because the quality of your life is not going to be the same when the gold price goes goes up dramatically. And that's the period we're entering now. We're into the acceleration period uh of the precious metals and of course the collapse u era for currencies. So that will lead to quite a horrible world. >> No, no, we will dissect that. Exactly. Let me we can get more granular on on those topics because I I did want to ask you about the the relationship of gold and fiat currency. So like the as you said we're in the acceleration phase and it starts like and I was going to ask you like the US dollar is actually doing much better than the other currencies right now if you look at it on a daily basis the Dixie is doing okay but I was going to ask you like the the relationship between gold and currencies and fiat currencies it seems like I would and broken is the wrong term but uh it seems like gold is accelerating much faster now than u it maybe the dollar and other currencies are declining or is it just playing catch-up and what what is your opinion on Well, as I said, we are now entering the exponential phase of of the of the metals for the simple reason that the the world economy and especially the western economy is now collapsing. Um, and so you get this phase at the end uh when things go a lot faster. You know, you know, currencies is no use comparing on is the dollar stronger or is the euro stronger or the yen. It doesn't matter. They're all absolutely rubbish. They all go to zero. So, so therefore, we we have to have other ways of looking at gold and silver, of course, and the way we look at it is is is ounces or kilos or grams or whatever level you're investing at. Um, so that's the only way to look at it, you know, to to measure your now your wealth every day uh if you have gold and silver um in in dollars is totally useless. Totally useless. You know, look at the prices now, right? We don't It's not People think, and that's because that's what governments told them. People think that prices are going up. They aren't going up at all. It's the value of the currency. And of course, uh, as you said, why is it going up now? First of all, the money supply has been increasing rapidly for 50 years, let's say, and and c certainly um certainly in this century. um and gold hasn't kept pace with that and that's happening now. And of course now gold is also forecasting that there will be in the next 5 years maybe more 10 years uh unlimited money printing to try to save this world and sadly that is going to fail. Uh but that is the consequence um of the levels of debt we have now and the bond market. it's not going to be possible to finance um uh the deficits uh that we're going to see in the future. Uh and therefore interest rates will go up dramatically and interest rates also has to obviously reflect uh the risk of default and the risk of default is going to increase by the day because we will see failures in corporate markets. will see failures in government uh uh markets um and and obviously we will see fa massive failures in the banking world and that's why you know the I said for years that the governments are not going to be or central banks to be able to control the currents sorry the the the rates the interest rates um and and um they will they will try with a shorter term but this going to fail the market and it led by the longer rates will just sell off. The bond market will sell off which means that the interest rates are going to go up and up and up and and you know I came to the UK in the 19 early 1970s um and um I saw inflation during 7year period being average about 15% 14 15%. I saw uh my first mortgage uh in 1973. The interest on that went up to 21%. 21%. How many people today kai can afford a 21% mortgage rate? Nobody. Nobody. And whether we will go to that level or not, I wouldn't be surprised. We will certainly go up in the teens. And of course, so there won't be people will not have money to pay for the mortgage or pay for the debts or interest on their debt. Uh and that so the government will have to print unlimited amounts of money to help them. And this is how you get the cycle of of higher rates, higher inflation uh and collapsing currencies. It's so simple. You know, the I mean remember we decided to go into this 40 years ago uh to gold. We went in actually actually uh in the early 2000s because we waited for the gold uh to bottom out and we were lucky to pick it up almost at the bottom. Um and since then, you know, I've never worried one day. I didn't need I never had to look at the price of gold. We didn't go into silver heavily in or at all actually in the beginning. Then we went in a bit when when we thought the timing was right. And silver now, of course, I'm sure we'll talk about that is is going to go up fast faster than gold. But but uh you know for wealth preservation, gold is the the right metal to hold. Um and you know gold is still going to go up in my view by multiples from here reflecting all of the problems that we will see in the economy. And as as we say it is I think you know gold normally keeps pace with with the cost of living and purchasing power. I think now gold is going to go much faster than uh purchasing power uh for the simple reason that nobody owns gold today. You know, we've had about half a percent of world financial assets in gold. Um that is now going to change dramatically and not just temporarily. There'll be a fundamental and permanent change in the way that people look at gold and uh that's what people have to take into account. Now, this is not a speculative move, you know, catching a few hundred dollars on the gold price or or or a few tens of dollars on the silver price. This is much much more fun fundamental. uh and until people realize that uh you know they're not they're going to investors I'm talking about especially they're going to see the total destruction of their investments because we'll have a massive wealth transfer from paper assets to real assets in coming years if gold were the doomsday clock and the gold price was the doomsday clock um how close to midnight are we here now uh Egon um because especially the pace of uh the gold and silver price moving higher now versus other feared currencies has me concerned. The question is like how much room is there until it's midnight? >> Uh midnight can be defined in many ways. Kai you mean mid midnight end of the world or do you mean midnight when we re reach maximum gold price or what do you >> good good question actually. So good good good feedback midnight is like when the fiat currencies fail. Um, how so how much room is left? And it's very difficult of course to gauge because once momentum kicks in and you already touched on restructuring portfolios and assets. Um, but how close to minute are we of fiat currencies failing? Maybe that's the better question to ask there. Egon. >> Well, you know, anything that's gone down by 99% is pretty close to midnight. So, um, and therefore we are very close, but is the final phase which is the dramatic one. Of course, uh this has been a gradual move. You know, this is we're back to old Hemingway, aren't we? You know, how do you go bankrupt? First first gradually and then suddenly um and that's the phase we're entering now. We have seen a gradual phase o of since 1971 of the destruction or fall of fiat currencies. And now we're going to see the sudden phase. So, it's going to go a lot quicker than it has done, which means that gold and silver will go up faster, currencies will uh consequently lose value faster, and inflation will rise. And governments will tell you there's just inflation uh rather than a total mismanagement of the economy by just uh allowing budget deficits and therefore printing money in order to cover them. I mean, it's it's an absolute scandal what's happened. But at the same time as this a scandal it happens time and time through history. Um so these governments who are absolutely useless in most countries are no worse than previous government governments especially at the end of eras like this. We are at the end of a monetary era. Um and that's a very ugly ugly period in the economy, ugly period for interest rates, for stock markets and for people also you know um and this going to be very very tough time for everyone. No one can escape uh the problems that the world will see in in in the next whether it's 5 years or 10 years. I think it's it's we're accelerating. I I I doubt it's going to be as much as 10 years. Of course, markets and the financial system and political system can collapse uh and stock market goes down straight away like it did in in in let's say 29 to 32 very quickly but then it takes 50 years before it recovers. I mean that's what happened with to to the Dow for example going go going down to from 400 to 40 and and and not in in 2932 and not going back to the 400 level until 1956 um so uh or 55 56 so the the so therefore the economy can stay weak for a very long time you know I've learned think Kai that forecasting is a mug's Amy and you know the the to forecast price and time is virtually impossible. I focus more on on risk and direction. I know that the risk is higher than ever now in during the the life in the life I have lived um and during the last 50 70 80 years. Um and and therefore, you know, you focus on on protecting that risk. Um and then um you know, if you are not not totally stupid, you know that the the direction is going to be obviously down in currencies, down in stock markets, up in interest rates, um etc. And and sadly down in quality of life, down in world population, for example. that's inevitable in an era like this. So there will be a lot of changes and a lot of suffering in the world. Um and I think so therefore is no use saying you know well what's going to gold price be at the end of the year or what's going to be next year. I don't give a damn about that you know worry more about protecting yourself protecting your family protect helping friends etc. Don't worry about what the gold price going to do. The gold price is is is just the effect of of uh the normal mismanagement of the economy that that happens at the end of every monetary era. Neil how calls it the fourth turning. uh you know we we we we wrote about we I I wrote an article in 2009 called the dark years are here but I actually mentioned I wasn't I wasn't influenced by Neil how but but you know this is my thoughts were similar to his that we are at the end of an era and it's it's it's as simple as that so no you're trying to forecast markets uh or or or trade in and out you know you you buy gold and silver to protect protect yourselves. That's the only real wealth preservation there is if you buy physical hold it on the banking system like we help people to do. But if you if you if you everything else is speculation everything in the financial markets is speculation. Yes. Uh real assets are going to go up a lot and and gold and silver stocks are undervalued compared to uh gold and silver. The only problem is that they are in the financial system and you do not know at the end if you will actually get a hold of your shares that you hold. So therefore from our point of view we are actually pure wealth preservationist. Uh we are happy for for our clients to stick to the physical gold and silver rather than going to uh paper assets. Although we see much more potential of course in in in the in the gold and silver stocks than in the physical because it's it's they lack behind dramatically uh but nevertheless if you if you if you play in those markets you know that should be with much much smaller amounts than you than the physical you hold of course in our view >> you make some really interesting points and I' I've got a couple follow-up questions of course here Egon um maybe first one is what what happens when the clock strikes midnight and That's I'm I'm I'm really concerned about that because a lot of people talk about that happening, but what does the midnight plus 1 minute or so look like? Um once once we once we're at that point, um I'm trying to understand like what role will gold have moving forward and what does the quality of life that you've referred to sort of look like? Yes, it'll be worse, but how can we sort of um you know interpret that? >> Yes. Uh let's remember that it doesn't happen all at once. You know, various sectors of the market um are affected at different times. You know, you can you can have a massive let's say you have a failure in the banking system. Um that doesn't affect people straight away except for the people who have money or let's say the not all banks will fail at once. So, so but but the ones that fail obviously means that people who have money in the bank will not be able to get to the their money. Uh but so so uh and the same you know the you you take in the Vimar Republic politics was in a total mess and there were political figures that were murdered time and time again and and we haven't seen much of that yet but I'm sure uh I'm sure that's going to be more and more of that because people will be generally unhappy um and and they will find some culprit that they can blame for that. So you know there will be those kind of political murders. There will be I wrote this many years ago there will be change of leadership uh and very few presidents or prime ministers or chancellors will sit to the end of that period uh because there will be uh votes of no confidence. Uh people will be Al did all of their elected for a period because in general times are going to be so bad that nobody can stay in power for the full period. So I see you know a political uh system which which is uh in a total mess um and leaders will come and go. I mean, you see now in in in Europe, you see Macron, I mean, he's his days are counted. Obviously, they've been for a long time. Uh, you you see Starmer again, his days are counted. Um, and u Germany might last a bit longer, but but you know, but this is and you know, Trump is now still on on a high, but that's because the US stock is stock market is still up and the banking system hasn't failed. But it will do. It will come. Um and and I think there's a high risk that Trump will be regarded as the the one of the the worst presence presidents in history. Not because of his actions, but because he happened to be born at the wrong time and elected at the wrong time. Uh a and uh therefore the US economy will be in a total mess. You remember there's the most indebted uh nation in in the world. Um and they are deficits. They have deficits that are going up exponentially and absolutely there is no chance of stopping that trend you know and and therefore there will be if if you know governments or central banks they never call it a default of course uh they will just print more money but the US and the US dollar is now telling us uh that they're not going to be able to print money or treasury bonds or bills that um people will buy at certainly not at normal prices. So uh you know that's why interest rates if you want to sell a horrible instrument um to somebody uh then you will have they will have to pay a very high price for it whether that's 15% or 20% interest rate or more at some point they will not touch it but but until then they will the rates will be much higher and that will affect the world. So, so um and then of course governments at some point also this is again you know I I said in this article the dark years are here and and I I 2009 and you have repeated it many times governments will not be able to help the people. So the whole of the social security system and the p pension system have a very high risk of failing or if it doesn't fail it will just be with more and more uh printed fiat money that has no effect really or or or is worth less and less by the day. the the the medical system and and and medical care uh hospitals etc will also have problems financially and uh so that service will be getting worse gradually over the next few years also it's already in most countries that I I'm aware of already in especially in Europe uh it's already failing there the the the care it's not what it was and in the US it costs an absolute fortune and 20% of GDP whatever it is which is absolutely crazy. So what I'm saying is it's going to happen in in various sectors at slightly different times but the trend will be clear it'll get everything will get worse um and you know there'll be shortages of goods there'll be shortages of food etc also and distribution system will not function in the same way so uh you know I'm not the prophet of doom and gloom I'm just someone who throughout my life I tried to understand risk risk and what the best way is to protect yourself against risk. >> Um and uh therefore, you know, for the ones who have a bit of money, you don't ever have a lot of money. You protect yourself. I'm talking about financially. Now there are other ways to protect yourself but financially that is of course with physical gold and silver and and and you don't have to be rich you know you can buy you can buy an ounce of silver for a bit over $50 you know and that will probably be worth many times that in in in fiat currencies uh before this era is over and so therefore it's going to protect your money much better than if you have it in your pocket or in the bank. So this is what people should think of now protecting themselves, helping the family and to whatever extent you can, you know, don't buy don't buy that coffee for for $5 or $7. Uh uh in instead, you know, save it for save 10 of those and you buy an ounce of silver. Uh but we got to hurry up. Silver silver is not going to be found at these prices for very long. There's a massive shortage as we know of silver. Um and and uh that's going to continue. >> Before we come to silver, I do have one last question before we get to it. It's just overall the the trend accelerating because we have the banks now jumping onto the bandwagon or on the hype train, let's call it that, for a lack of better term. Um with Morgan Stanley saying, well, maybe you should consider owning 60% stocks, 20% in in bonds, and 20% in gold. Um is that just accelerating the the trend? uh is that making the clock tick faster? >> Yeah, it's quite amazing. You know, here we have been telling uh investors to you know I've been standing on the soap box for for 25 years basically saying buy silver and I've been very silver and gold. I've been very unsuccessful because the world is still not from our point of company's point of view because our our clients and investors are mainly wealth preservationists. So they actually understand gold and silver but they are a minority you know that most people have stayed in the stock market in the property market in the private equity market and they think in dollar terms they're doing so well uh and they don't nobody's thought about gold all of a sudden a major bank says from nothing buy 20% gold that is just it's such a turnaround it's unbelievable so banks are now if you want panic and realize that they've actually been totally wrong for all these years and now they're advising or every bank now is advising clients to hold 10 or 20% of gold from nothing. And you can imagine uh Kai what effect this has on the gold and silver markets. There ain't that much gold around and and silver there's virtually nothing available. Um and and you know the the gold market has year after year produced 3,000 new new tons of of new gold every year. 3,000 tons just over >> uh and that's been absorbed in normal times by the market um without anybody rushing to buy gold and with only half a percent of world financial assets into gold and it's still been absorbed every month. Now all of a sudden investment managers are talking about a 20% of gold. Um the BRICS countries are are buying as much as they can. Uh central banks in the east because the west still haven't understood what's happening. The central banks they only print debt. They don't understand that they should own gold and they haven't increased their hold except for maybe Poland or a few countries but in general no western country has increased their holding of gold or or no no central bank western you in the western country but China is buying India's of course buying all the eastern countries are buying Russia is buying um and and as I said all the bricks countries uh are buying gold um and Now institutions are starting to buy and and and also you said the the western financial world advisers etc. Money managers are recommending gold which is of course hasn't happened for as long as I've been in this market. So the demand is massive and there just isn't enough gold to supply this demand. So the only way that this major increase in demand from half a percent up to 20%, you know that that that goal doesn't exist at that price. So the only way to satisfy that high demand is at much higher prices. And this is what we're going to see. And this I've been saying for quite a long time now, the last two years I've said that gold is going to go up by multiples. Allow me one last question because we have about 60 seconds left here because I want to talk silver real quick. Is it the same as gold? Really? Um and is it catching up to gold here now? >> No. As people say, silver is gold on steroids. We're going to see silver going up by at least twice as fast, maybe maybe faster as gold. I I not one for forecast, but you know, I said several years ago, several years ago that go gold I expect gold already. I did 20 years ago to go to 10,000 just like because that's the figure it would reach at least and if we re get down to the old ratio of 15 which is the historical ratio gold to silver that gives you 666 silver it's not a forecast but I would say that it's $666 silver it's not a forecast but I would say it's very very likely uh it happens remember that is fiat money we don't know what the money is worth but you know if you have compared to holding paper money this is a much better way. Silver will go out faster. It will be more volatile. It's not for widows and orphans, but you know, have mainly gold physical and have some silver. That's what we recommend to people. >> Fantastic, Egon. What a wonderful conversation. Can't wait to see you in person in Zurich here in a in a few short weeks. Really looking forward to that. Um, in the meantime, where can we send our audience to find more of your work and to follow you? >> So, the the easiest way is is well, the our company is called von Greers.gold. gold but um is easiest is to put in just vg. Gold uh also gold our old names and we use still gold switzerland.com gold switzerland.com or vg.g gold as he exists. >> Fantastic. Awesome. Egon, thank you so much for joining us. Always a pleasure to catch up with you. It's good to see you again. And everybody else, thank you so much for tuning in. Really appreciate you watching. If you haven't done so, hit that like and subscribe button. Also, leave a comment. How are you playing the current scenario? What what is your price target for gold and silver right now? Um, of course, we're being cautious about targets, but momentum is so strong right now. We need to keep that in mind and maybe what what are you thinking is really driving gold and silver as well. Is it just really the collapse of fiat or is there more to it? Really curious to hear from you as well. Thank you so much for tuning in and take care out there.
GOLD Is Your Monetary Doomsday Clock | Egon von Greyerz
Summary
Transcript
The gold and silver trade knows no stopping. We're trading over $4,100 an ounce in gold. Silver was at $53 earlier this morning. It is now closer to $51. Mr. Slammy uh I I showed up again in the market this morning. And I'm starting to believe that this gentleman lives in London. Uh cuz it all happened around 8:00 a.m. my time. And it was quite obvious that somebody must have entered the office and hit the sell button. Lots of pressure uh on on gold and silver this morning, but it was bought. So, we need to discuss what is happening in the gold and silver markets, but I also would like to dissect and understand and discuss the fundamentals behind the gold price move. I've invited a fantastic guest to discuss this. It's Egon Fayat. He's the founder and managing director over at Funayats Gold and I'm really looking forward to hearing his insights. Before I switch over to my guest though, hit that like and subscribe button. It helps us out tremendously invite fantastic guests like Egon onto the program and we much much appreciate. Thank you so much for doing that. Now, Egon, it is great to have you back on the program. Exciting times we live in, don't we? >> Certainly is, Kai. And, uh, you know, I'm an old fox in this game. I mean, I didn't start my life in in financial markets directly or or in in gold, of course. I mean, that was something that I started at the the end of the 90s. Um, and for the simple reason, you know, I've been through I've been in banking, I've been in corporate life in the UK. Um but um then I decided that the world was going to be in a mess and uh it was uh the right time to start thinking about wealth preservation. Um and of course gold was no better instrument uh well was the best instrument there is for wealth preservation clearly. Um and uh there therefore we focused on going into to the gold market in a major way and and we we entered it at 2002 at $300. Uh and we recommended at the time to our investors and for ourselves also at least 50% of financial assets. So this here we are now uh about three uh 3,000 3,00 4,100 something like it's >> $4,000 uh dollars later. Yeah. Um almost from from the 300 where we enter the market in a bigger way. You know, you talk about this fluctuation this morning. To be honest with you, I don't care the slightest bit about fluctuations. I I have from the beginning been absolutely certain that we are at the end of a monetary era and therefore the the currencies will be destroyed and since we measure gold in uh currencies that that are dying uh then it's easy of course uh because uh go the gold price always goes up. I mean it's totally wrong to measure gold really in in fiat money uh because you it would be better to measure it in chickens or cows instead because you know at least they have a more stable value than the currencies. So you know we are at the end of a monetary era and they always end badly and as you know uh the uh currency has gone down by 99% since 71 when Nixon closed the gold window. So we got 1% left uh to totally uh take them down to zero and that will happen. But remember that zero is 100% from here. You know that last percent is 100% from here. That means that you know there's a long way to go and a lot's going to happen and it will be absolutely horrible times for the world. We're always told our investors, you know, don't wish for the gold price to go up because the quality of your life is not going to be the same when the gold price goes goes up dramatically. And that's the period we're entering now. We're into the acceleration period uh of the precious metals and of course the collapse u era for currencies. So that will lead to quite a horrible world. >> No, no, we will dissect that. Exactly. Let me we can get more granular on on those topics because I I did want to ask you about the the relationship of gold and fiat currency. So like the as you said we're in the acceleration phase and it starts like and I was going to ask you like the US dollar is actually doing much better than the other currencies right now if you look at it on a daily basis the Dixie is doing okay but I was going to ask you like the the relationship between gold and currencies and fiat currencies it seems like I would and broken is the wrong term but uh it seems like gold is accelerating much faster now than u it maybe the dollar and other currencies are declining or is it just playing catch-up and what what is your opinion on Well, as I said, we are now entering the exponential phase of of the of the metals for the simple reason that the the world economy and especially the western economy is now collapsing. Um, and so you get this phase at the end uh when things go a lot faster. You know, you know, currencies is no use comparing on is the dollar stronger or is the euro stronger or the yen. It doesn't matter. They're all absolutely rubbish. They all go to zero. So, so therefore, we we have to have other ways of looking at gold and silver, of course, and the way we look at it is is is ounces or kilos or grams or whatever level you're investing at. Um, so that's the only way to look at it, you know, to to measure your now your wealth every day uh if you have gold and silver um in in dollars is totally useless. Totally useless. You know, look at the prices now, right? We don't It's not People think, and that's because that's what governments told them. People think that prices are going up. They aren't going up at all. It's the value of the currency. And of course, uh, as you said, why is it going up now? First of all, the money supply has been increasing rapidly for 50 years, let's say, and and c certainly um certainly in this century. um and gold hasn't kept pace with that and that's happening now. And of course now gold is also forecasting that there will be in the next 5 years maybe more 10 years uh unlimited money printing to try to save this world and sadly that is going to fail. Uh but that is the consequence um of the levels of debt we have now and the bond market. it's not going to be possible to finance um uh the deficits uh that we're going to see in the future. Uh and therefore interest rates will go up dramatically and interest rates also has to obviously reflect uh the risk of default and the risk of default is going to increase by the day because we will see failures in corporate markets. will see failures in government uh uh markets um and and obviously we will see fa massive failures in the banking world and that's why you know the I said for years that the governments are not going to be or central banks to be able to control the currents sorry the the the rates the interest rates um and and um they will they will try with a shorter term but this going to fail the market and it led by the longer rates will just sell off. The bond market will sell off which means that the interest rates are going to go up and up and up and and you know I came to the UK in the 19 early 1970s um and um I saw inflation during 7year period being average about 15% 14 15%. I saw uh my first mortgage uh in 1973. The interest on that went up to 21%. 21%. How many people today kai can afford a 21% mortgage rate? Nobody. Nobody. And whether we will go to that level or not, I wouldn't be surprised. We will certainly go up in the teens. And of course, so there won't be people will not have money to pay for the mortgage or pay for the debts or interest on their debt. Uh and that so the government will have to print unlimited amounts of money to help them. And this is how you get the cycle of of higher rates, higher inflation uh and collapsing currencies. It's so simple. You know, the I mean remember we decided to go into this 40 years ago uh to gold. We went in actually actually uh in the early 2000s because we waited for the gold uh to bottom out and we were lucky to pick it up almost at the bottom. Um and since then, you know, I've never worried one day. I didn't need I never had to look at the price of gold. We didn't go into silver heavily in or at all actually in the beginning. Then we went in a bit when when we thought the timing was right. And silver now, of course, I'm sure we'll talk about that is is going to go up fast faster than gold. But but uh you know for wealth preservation, gold is the the right metal to hold. Um and you know gold is still going to go up in my view by multiples from here reflecting all of the problems that we will see in the economy. And as as we say it is I think you know gold normally keeps pace with with the cost of living and purchasing power. I think now gold is going to go much faster than uh purchasing power uh for the simple reason that nobody owns gold today. You know, we've had about half a percent of world financial assets in gold. Um that is now going to change dramatically and not just temporarily. There'll be a fundamental and permanent change in the way that people look at gold and uh that's what people have to take into account. Now, this is not a speculative move, you know, catching a few hundred dollars on the gold price or or or a few tens of dollars on the silver price. This is much much more fun fundamental. uh and until people realize that uh you know they're not they're going to investors I'm talking about especially they're going to see the total destruction of their investments because we'll have a massive wealth transfer from paper assets to real assets in coming years if gold were the doomsday clock and the gold price was the doomsday clock um how close to midnight are we here now uh Egon um because especially the pace of uh the gold and silver price moving higher now versus other feared currencies has me concerned. The question is like how much room is there until it's midnight? >> Uh midnight can be defined in many ways. Kai you mean mid midnight end of the world or do you mean midnight when we re reach maximum gold price or what do you >> good good question actually. So good good good feedback midnight is like when the fiat currencies fail. Um, how so how much room is left? And it's very difficult of course to gauge because once momentum kicks in and you already touched on restructuring portfolios and assets. Um, but how close to minute are we of fiat currencies failing? Maybe that's the better question to ask there. Egon. >> Well, you know, anything that's gone down by 99% is pretty close to midnight. So, um, and therefore we are very close, but is the final phase which is the dramatic one. Of course, uh this has been a gradual move. You know, this is we're back to old Hemingway, aren't we? You know, how do you go bankrupt? First first gradually and then suddenly um and that's the phase we're entering now. We have seen a gradual phase o of since 1971 of the destruction or fall of fiat currencies. And now we're going to see the sudden phase. So, it's going to go a lot quicker than it has done, which means that gold and silver will go up faster, currencies will uh consequently lose value faster, and inflation will rise. And governments will tell you there's just inflation uh rather than a total mismanagement of the economy by just uh allowing budget deficits and therefore printing money in order to cover them. I mean, it's it's an absolute scandal what's happened. But at the same time as this a scandal it happens time and time through history. Um so these governments who are absolutely useless in most countries are no worse than previous government governments especially at the end of eras like this. We are at the end of a monetary era. Um and that's a very ugly ugly period in the economy, ugly period for interest rates, for stock markets and for people also you know um and this going to be very very tough time for everyone. No one can escape uh the problems that the world will see in in in the next whether it's 5 years or 10 years. I think it's it's we're accelerating. I I I doubt it's going to be as much as 10 years. Of course, markets and the financial system and political system can collapse uh and stock market goes down straight away like it did in in in let's say 29 to 32 very quickly but then it takes 50 years before it recovers. I mean that's what happened with to to the Dow for example going go going down to from 400 to 40 and and and not in in 2932 and not going back to the 400 level until 1956 um so uh or 55 56 so the the so therefore the economy can stay weak for a very long time you know I've learned think Kai that forecasting is a mug's Amy and you know the the to forecast price and time is virtually impossible. I focus more on on risk and direction. I know that the risk is higher than ever now in during the the life in the life I have lived um and during the last 50 70 80 years. Um and and therefore, you know, you focus on on protecting that risk. Um and then um you know, if you are not not totally stupid, you know that the the direction is going to be obviously down in currencies, down in stock markets, up in interest rates, um etc. And and sadly down in quality of life, down in world population, for example. that's inevitable in an era like this. So there will be a lot of changes and a lot of suffering in the world. Um and I think so therefore is no use saying you know well what's going to gold price be at the end of the year or what's going to be next year. I don't give a damn about that you know worry more about protecting yourself protecting your family protect helping friends etc. Don't worry about what the gold price going to do. The gold price is is is just the effect of of uh the normal mismanagement of the economy that that happens at the end of every monetary era. Neil how calls it the fourth turning. uh you know we we we we wrote about we I I wrote an article in 2009 called the dark years are here but I actually mentioned I wasn't I wasn't influenced by Neil how but but you know this is my thoughts were similar to his that we are at the end of an era and it's it's it's as simple as that so no you're trying to forecast markets uh or or or trade in and out you know you you buy gold and silver to protect protect yourselves. That's the only real wealth preservation there is if you buy physical hold it on the banking system like we help people to do. But if you if you if you everything else is speculation everything in the financial markets is speculation. Yes. Uh real assets are going to go up a lot and and gold and silver stocks are undervalued compared to uh gold and silver. The only problem is that they are in the financial system and you do not know at the end if you will actually get a hold of your shares that you hold. So therefore from our point of view we are actually pure wealth preservationist. Uh we are happy for for our clients to stick to the physical gold and silver rather than going to uh paper assets. Although we see much more potential of course in in in the in the gold and silver stocks than in the physical because it's it's they lack behind dramatically uh but nevertheless if you if you if you play in those markets you know that should be with much much smaller amounts than you than the physical you hold of course in our view >> you make some really interesting points and I' I've got a couple follow-up questions of course here Egon um maybe first one is what what happens when the clock strikes midnight and That's I'm I'm I'm really concerned about that because a lot of people talk about that happening, but what does the midnight plus 1 minute or so look like? Um once once we once we're at that point, um I'm trying to understand like what role will gold have moving forward and what does the quality of life that you've referred to sort of look like? Yes, it'll be worse, but how can we sort of um you know interpret that? >> Yes. Uh let's remember that it doesn't happen all at once. You know, various sectors of the market um are affected at different times. You know, you can you can have a massive let's say you have a failure in the banking system. Um that doesn't affect people straight away except for the people who have money or let's say the not all banks will fail at once. So, so but but the ones that fail obviously means that people who have money in the bank will not be able to get to the their money. Uh but so so uh and the same you know the you you take in the Vimar Republic politics was in a total mess and there were political figures that were murdered time and time again and and we haven't seen much of that yet but I'm sure uh I'm sure that's going to be more and more of that because people will be generally unhappy um and and they will find some culprit that they can blame for that. So you know there will be those kind of political murders. There will be I wrote this many years ago there will be change of leadership uh and very few presidents or prime ministers or chancellors will sit to the end of that period uh because there will be uh votes of no confidence. Uh people will be Al did all of their elected for a period because in general times are going to be so bad that nobody can stay in power for the full period. So I see you know a political uh system which which is uh in a total mess um and leaders will come and go. I mean, you see now in in in Europe, you see Macron, I mean, he's his days are counted. Obviously, they've been for a long time. Uh, you you see Starmer again, his days are counted. Um, and u Germany might last a bit longer, but but you know, but this is and you know, Trump is now still on on a high, but that's because the US stock is stock market is still up and the banking system hasn't failed. But it will do. It will come. Um and and I think there's a high risk that Trump will be regarded as the the one of the the worst presence presidents in history. Not because of his actions, but because he happened to be born at the wrong time and elected at the wrong time. Uh a and uh therefore the US economy will be in a total mess. You remember there's the most indebted uh nation in in the world. Um and they are deficits. They have deficits that are going up exponentially and absolutely there is no chance of stopping that trend you know and and therefore there will be if if you know governments or central banks they never call it a default of course uh they will just print more money but the US and the US dollar is now telling us uh that they're not going to be able to print money or treasury bonds or bills that um people will buy at certainly not at normal prices. So uh you know that's why interest rates if you want to sell a horrible instrument um to somebody uh then you will have they will have to pay a very high price for it whether that's 15% or 20% interest rate or more at some point they will not touch it but but until then they will the rates will be much higher and that will affect the world. So, so um and then of course governments at some point also this is again you know I I said in this article the dark years are here and and I I 2009 and you have repeated it many times governments will not be able to help the people. So the whole of the social security system and the p pension system have a very high risk of failing or if it doesn't fail it will just be with more and more uh printed fiat money that has no effect really or or or is worth less and less by the day. the the the medical system and and and medical care uh hospitals etc will also have problems financially and uh so that service will be getting worse gradually over the next few years also it's already in most countries that I I'm aware of already in especially in Europe uh it's already failing there the the the care it's not what it was and in the US it costs an absolute fortune and 20% of GDP whatever it is which is absolutely crazy. So what I'm saying is it's going to happen in in various sectors at slightly different times but the trend will be clear it'll get everything will get worse um and you know there'll be shortages of goods there'll be shortages of food etc also and distribution system will not function in the same way so uh you know I'm not the prophet of doom and gloom I'm just someone who throughout my life I tried to understand risk risk and what the best way is to protect yourself against risk. >> Um and uh therefore, you know, for the ones who have a bit of money, you don't ever have a lot of money. You protect yourself. I'm talking about financially. Now there are other ways to protect yourself but financially that is of course with physical gold and silver and and and you don't have to be rich you know you can buy you can buy an ounce of silver for a bit over $50 you know and that will probably be worth many times that in in in fiat currencies uh before this era is over and so therefore it's going to protect your money much better than if you have it in your pocket or in the bank. So this is what people should think of now protecting themselves, helping the family and to whatever extent you can, you know, don't buy don't buy that coffee for for $5 or $7. Uh uh in instead, you know, save it for save 10 of those and you buy an ounce of silver. Uh but we got to hurry up. Silver silver is not going to be found at these prices for very long. There's a massive shortage as we know of silver. Um and and uh that's going to continue. >> Before we come to silver, I do have one last question before we get to it. It's just overall the the trend accelerating because we have the banks now jumping onto the bandwagon or on the hype train, let's call it that, for a lack of better term. Um with Morgan Stanley saying, well, maybe you should consider owning 60% stocks, 20% in in bonds, and 20% in gold. Um is that just accelerating the the trend? uh is that making the clock tick faster? >> Yeah, it's quite amazing. You know, here we have been telling uh investors to you know I've been standing on the soap box for for 25 years basically saying buy silver and I've been very silver and gold. I've been very unsuccessful because the world is still not from our point of company's point of view because our our clients and investors are mainly wealth preservationists. So they actually understand gold and silver but they are a minority you know that most people have stayed in the stock market in the property market in the private equity market and they think in dollar terms they're doing so well uh and they don't nobody's thought about gold all of a sudden a major bank says from nothing buy 20% gold that is just it's such a turnaround it's unbelievable so banks are now if you want panic and realize that they've actually been totally wrong for all these years and now they're advising or every bank now is advising clients to hold 10 or 20% of gold from nothing. And you can imagine uh Kai what effect this has on the gold and silver markets. There ain't that much gold around and and silver there's virtually nothing available. Um and and you know the the gold market has year after year produced 3,000 new new tons of of new gold every year. 3,000 tons just over >> uh and that's been absorbed in normal times by the market um without anybody rushing to buy gold and with only half a percent of world financial assets into gold and it's still been absorbed every month. Now all of a sudden investment managers are talking about a 20% of gold. Um the BRICS countries are are buying as much as they can. Uh central banks in the east because the west still haven't understood what's happening. The central banks they only print debt. They don't understand that they should own gold and they haven't increased their hold except for maybe Poland or a few countries but in general no western country has increased their holding of gold or or no no central bank western you in the western country but China is buying India's of course buying all the eastern countries are buying Russia is buying um and and as I said all the bricks countries uh are buying gold um and Now institutions are starting to buy and and and also you said the the western financial world advisers etc. Money managers are recommending gold which is of course hasn't happened for as long as I've been in this market. So the demand is massive and there just isn't enough gold to supply this demand. So the only way that this major increase in demand from half a percent up to 20%, you know that that that goal doesn't exist at that price. So the only way to satisfy that high demand is at much higher prices. And this is what we're going to see. And this I've been saying for quite a long time now, the last two years I've said that gold is going to go up by multiples. Allow me one last question because we have about 60 seconds left here because I want to talk silver real quick. Is it the same as gold? Really? Um and is it catching up to gold here now? >> No. As people say, silver is gold on steroids. We're going to see silver going up by at least twice as fast, maybe maybe faster as gold. I I not one for forecast, but you know, I said several years ago, several years ago that go gold I expect gold already. I did 20 years ago to go to 10,000 just like because that's the figure it would reach at least and if we re get down to the old ratio of 15 which is the historical ratio gold to silver that gives you 666 silver it's not a forecast but I would say that it's $666 silver it's not a forecast but I would say it's very very likely uh it happens remember that is fiat money we don't know what the money is worth but you know if you have compared to holding paper money this is a much better way. Silver will go out faster. It will be more volatile. It's not for widows and orphans, but you know, have mainly gold physical and have some silver. That's what we recommend to people. >> Fantastic, Egon. What a wonderful conversation. Can't wait to see you in person in Zurich here in a in a few short weeks. Really looking forward to that. Um, in the meantime, where can we send our audience to find more of your work and to follow you? >> So, the the easiest way is is well, the our company is called von Greers.gold. gold but um is easiest is to put in just vg. Gold uh also gold our old names and we use still gold switzerland.com gold switzerland.com or vg.g gold as he exists. >> Fantastic. Awesome. Egon, thank you so much for joining us. Always a pleasure to catch up with you. It's good to see you again. And everybody else, thank you so much for tuning in. Really appreciate you watching. If you haven't done so, hit that like and subscribe button. Also, leave a comment. How are you playing the current scenario? What what is your price target for gold and silver right now? Um, of course, we're being cautious about targets, but momentum is so strong right now. We need to keep that in mind and maybe what what are you thinking is really driving gold and silver as well. Is it just really the collapse of fiat or is there more to it? Really curious to hear from you as well. Thank you so much for tuning in and take care out there.