Market Outlook: Mark Chaken expresses a bullish outlook for the market, citing historical patterns of market behavior and the potential for a Fed rate cut to support economic growth.
Interest Rates: Discussion on the impact of potential Fed rate cuts, with historical context provided on how such cuts have previously coincided with market highs, suggesting a possible overheating of the economy.
Investment Opportunities: Mark highlights opportunities in housing and biotech sectors due to potential interest rate cuts, and emphasizes construction and engineering stocks as beneficiaries of the AI infrastructure buildout.
AI and Technology: The conversation underscores the ongoing capital spending in the tech sector, particularly in AI infrastructure, as a key driver of market growth, with companies like Comfort Systems and Amphenol being highlighted.
Bond Market Dynamics: The role of bond vigilantes in influencing long-term yields is discussed, with implications for the Treasury's efforts to manage the yield curve and the cost of servicing US debt.
Gold and Commodities: The podcast touches on the strategic accumulation of gold by central banks, particularly China, as a hedge against dollar dependency, with a brief mention of gold equities performing well.
Investment Strategy: Mark advises against analysis paralysis and suggests focusing on a few trusted methodologies, highlighting the importance of the power gauge in identifying stocks with strong earnings and analyst support.
Market Sentiment: The discussion includes a cautionary note on the potential for a market pullback, particularly in September, and the importance of being prepared to buy on dips.
Transcript
[Music] Hello and welcome to the Stansbury Investor Hour. I'm Dan Ferris. I'm the editor of Extreme Value and the Ferris Report, both published by Stanberry Research. >> And I'm Corey McLaclin, editor of the Stanberry Daily Digest. Today we talk with Mark Chaken, the founder of Chin Analytics. Mark is a frequent guest of the show and you will find out why. It's for a very good reason. Get out your pens and pencils. Get ready to take notes. Get ready to write down ticker symbols and to learn something about investing. So, let's do it. Let's talk with Mark Chen. Let's do it right now. Mark, welcome back to the show. Always a pleasure. >> Dan, good to be with you. So, what um where where do we ever start? We've to you're well known to our to our listeners and we uh we talk to you fairly often. I think you're one of our most frequent guests, you know, two or three times a year. Um I I always wonder, you know, what is Mark thinking now? And I see I get some emails from you and I get emails about when the next market crash will happen and I think hm what is he what is this all about? Um maybe I should just ask you what's on your mind where you'd like to start. How would you like that? >> Well, let's put the crash scenario on on the back burner. that that was is based on historical patterns that talk about the second year of a presidential term. And 65% of all bare markets start in that year because the chickens sort of come home to roost based on the new policies that were implemented in year one, which we're going through right now in terms of tariffs and uh interest rates. But there's still some massive opportunities in front of us in my opinion into year end and probably into uh first quarter earnings reports back you know next April. So right now I am bullish. Uh I was looking for some volatility and downward price movement in September. Uh typical of seasonal patterns into an October low, but >> so far the prospect of a 25 or 50 basis point cut by the Fed has kept kept the market on sure footing. >> Yeah, that that cut thing is it's a little strange, isn't it? because certainly in major cutting major cutting cycles have tended to overwhelmingly to correlate with with recessions and declining markets. But we don't have that expectation anymore. They've beaten that out of us, haven't they? >> They have. But I just read a study uh this morning. There have been seven rate cuts since the Fed started announcing their policies at a FOMC meeting in roughly 1992. There have been seven rate cuts within 40 days of a new high in the S&P. So, it it's happened before. Uh it it basically just helps overheat an already good economy. >> Yeah. I'm not saying it's not a reason to be bullish. It it really throws some gasoline on the fire for sure. U >> Oh, definitely. But I think the key is to note that this isn't a oneoff uh outlier. This has happened before. And uh you know the employment numbers I guess are troubling for the Fed and with this uh inflation number that came out a PPI on Wednesday um down instead of up uh there's some cause for celebration and uh you know at the FDF FOMC meeting next week >> right you know I noticed I was looking um well I was thinking about with its sort of three three cut cycle from from last year, late last year. Um the the long end of the curve didn't really like it, right? And I noticed the tenure is still slightly above where it was before that. You know, it's like 4.1 or something maybe as we speak. And it was 3.6 at the beginning of that cutting. And the market clearly didn't like it. It was almost 5% at one point. But I also noticed that mortgage rates have come down more than than the 10-year like the mortgage the you know the bank rate average 30-year fixed right national average and that of course bodess well right if we get I I continue to believe if we get a five handle on mortgages man um you're you're going to see some action >> you certainly will in fact the chicken power gauge rating which as you know is a quantitative model with 20 factor s it's mostly fundamental and a little bit technical has turned bullish on the homebuilders uh and stocks like uh Dr. Horton specifically. >> Uh I mean it's interesting if the Fed does what they normally do which is to uh go into an interest rate cutting regime with the idea of cutting at almost every meeting. uh we could see 150 basis point drop in the Fed funds rate uh you know by June of next year and there are two uh industry groups that benefit from lower interest rates big time housing and biotech and those uh both those groups have broken out of long base periods recently and are uh established uptrends that are pretty impressive >> and I want you to know my agreement with you on these matters Mark has nothing to do with my position in software futures options? Nothing whatsoever. Just to totally >> Well, I But you raise a good point, Dan. You raise a good point. Uh there's a a group uh quote unquote of bond traders that are known as the bond vigilantes. >> Oh, yes. >> And they operate mostly at the long end and on the 30-year bond. And that's going to be the big uh conundrum for Scott Bessant, Secretary of the Treasury, and for whoever is controlling the Fed, you know, come December. >> 30-year bond yields are going to stay stubbornly high in my opinion because the bond vigilantes don't like super stimulation into an already strong economy. So the question is how does the Treasury handle that? And there's all sorts of mechanisms that are above my pay grade for issuance and buying bonds that they can do to try and push down the 30-year yield. But it's pretty tough >> to manipulate the bond traders. I mean, not manipulate, but to influence them when they think something should be uh different. Yeah, that part I agree that end of the market like we all know what happened on April 8th, right? Trump Trump said it out loud in public without any you know he said I looked at the bond market and it was scary and then he of course he backed off and that was like the tariff tantrum bottom. So, we know this is real. And I've written about I did a whole issue of my newsletter about this about how the bond market scared the crap out of, you know, u I guess it was, you know, Clinton and then Obama. They have all had their runins with the vigilantes and and and he's no different. But, um I agree a lot of the stuff is above my pay grade, but we know one thing they do is issue a ton of on the short end issue a ton of tea bills. Like that's like that's one of the you know big repeat arrows in the quiver. Well, okay, I guess we need more T bills and less 30-year, right? So, so they'll do that because they >> But here's the irony. Here's the irony, Dan. Part of the game plan coming out of the White House and the Treasury is to lower the long end of the yield curve so that the cost of servicing the US debt goes down. But if the 30-year stays where it is, that's not going to happen. So, as I said, that's that's why I look at the power gauge and the technicals because I even if I knew what was going to happen, I would probably make the wrong call in terms of what to do about it. So, uh the bond market's its own animal and uh we'll see how that plays out. But that that could create, you know, after the Fed decision uh on the 17th of September, what happens at the long end of the curve could create uh a little bit of a 5% pullback that I've been looking for and so far hasn't come. >> Right. And especially in September, right, that's the time to expect it. The worst month of the year, right, historically. So yeah, I'm right there with you on that one. Um, yeah, I'm interested because last September when the Fed cut their first cut was 50 basis points, I think the first of three, and all the long all the long-term yields went higher. They were heading lower into that meeting. And then when they actually made the decision, everything went higher, including mortgage rates. This time around, the like Dan said, the mortgage rates are going lower right now. And the long-term yields are headed lower, too. Like slightly lower from where they were. But what happens after I guess and then like how do they signal like if more rate cuts are coming you know I guess that >> well there that's an signal is an interesting word because the Fed is now in a blackout period ahead of the uh FOMC meeting on the 16th 17th and there's a reporter uh for Bloomberg Bloomberg or the Wall Street Journal but um he has a Greek name and he's known as the Fed whisperer. So right now 25 basis point cut is like guaranteed but the Fed uh futures market uh is now 50/50 that will get a 50 basis point cut but the Fed typically won't do that unless they've tipped their hand. So we have to look for this reporter, the Fed whisperer, probably after the CPI report and the employment numbers on unemployment numbers on Friday. You may get a tip off as to whether it's going to be 50 or just stick at 25. Who's who's the guy, Dan? I see you googling. >> Yeah, Nick Timos Tim. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yep. >> Yeah. And it's amazing that in this era of, you know, electronic communication, someone picks up the phone and says, "Hey, you know, maybe you want to be uh bullish on rate cuts here." >> But that's the way the game is played. >> So, how do we how do we make money for the subscribers to your podcast? Well, um it sounds like we uh we get long and if we hit this nice pullback in September, we really, you know, we're we're buying that dip for sure. >> I mean, >> I am. The question is, what are you buying? >> Um well, I'm buying the same sorts of, you know, cash gushing uh businesses that have good balance sheets and managements and all the rest of it um in extreme value. And I'm doing something completely different. And I'm running a a uh what I would call a truly diversified portfolio in the Ferrris report. But we all want to know what you're buying, Mark. That's why you're here. >> Yeah. What is the power game? >> Well, I think what are we what are we doing? >> There are there are three things driving this market in my opinion have been for the last six months. One of them is very strong corporate earnings particularly in the tech sector >> uh and related industries um you know and all of that feeds into the capital spending that's going on to build the infrastructure to support AI rollouts for the next five to seven years. And then the third thing are corporate buybacks. There's going to be $1.3 trillion in corporate buybacks this year and probably the same next year. So that's a big um sort of demand push for stocks where the power gauge is finding less obvious opportunities are in the construction and engineering stocks. For instance, the people who are either building the um power plants to feed electricity to the AI uh infrastructure uh all the companies who are building the actual buildings and and cooling them. So just as an example is company called Comfort Systems, the symbol is FIX. Uh they're in the air conditioning business basically, but they're using AI to s more be more sophisticated about dispersing cooling. Uh there there's a company that we took a big profit in recently that goes back 50 years. Amphanol, you probably remember it from the 70s. >> Um AP, they make connectors. Well, where are the connectors used? They're used when you build uh data centers. So, we're looking at that sort of portion of the market. There are some real estate companies, and there's one that we're going to recommend, I think, shortly, uh that are very uh profitable in selling um properties to people who are building data centers and in acquiring land and you know, getting the zoning permits. So I think AI disperses through the economy in a variety of ways and construction and engineering is clearly one of the uh the spots where the power gauge has has really zeroed in over the last six months. Also nuclear, you know, no matter how you slice it and particularly in an administration that's uh anti- wind and anti- solar, uh where else you going to go but nuclear or natural gas? And you I think nuclear is really interesting investment opportunity over the next five years. >> Yeah, nuclear. I like I've liked that one for some time now and it's been a winner. Um what you >> mentioned have uranium in one of didn't you have uranium in one of your portfolios? >> Oh yeah. Yeah. We we've um we've got a nice return on uh on a I shouldn't mention it because people pay extra to get that portfolio in that in extreme value. But yes, we we're doing pretty well with that. We've got a couple of uranium stocks. We do have um UEC is is for all the rest of the subscribers and that's a double that's been um if it's Yeah, I mean it it was I think we recommended it five or six and it's 12. So we in less than a year I mean so it's it's screaming that that sector is doing great. Also you mentioned fix comfort systems. That's one of the aforementioned cash gushers that I that we like in extreme value. So yeah. Um >> I know I do. You know how many times that consecutively they've raised their dividend? It's amazing. And I've before this whole AI construction boom I think nobody except my wife Sandy had ever zeroed in on the stock. But because of the power gauge, she found it. >> Yeah, that's that's cool. I like the fact that the power gauge found a stock that I mean I can't even remember when we first covered it. It's been like years. It's been it's been since you know like people in our company have like come and gone and it's been years since we found that one. Um and it's had a pretty good run here. >> I'm I'm happy to hear that. >> But you can't be in I'm sorry. You can't be indiscriminate. I mean uh Fix has really continued to move up. A company like Lennux, LII has sort of maxed out. It's in our 2025 year-end portfolio. Much more obvious air conditioning play, >> but um you know also involved with home construction. So uh fix is more uh attuned to this AI buildout, which I think is great. >> Yeah. All right. So, um I'm glad to hear >> I love when two when when multiple uh editors and people that know what they're doing land on the same stock for totally different reasons almost. >> Um yeah, and you know, as a reader or subscriber, I don't I don't really care why, you know, like like it's it's it's okay if that happens and all those things align. I always tell subscribers is like when >> three different people or four different people end up on the same stock. Um, like that's that's a great thing. It's you should pay attention to that. >> Well, that that Corey, that might be too much of a good thing. You know, there's an old expression in the corporate world. If you've got three people in a conference room and they all agree, you've got one too many people in the conference room. So, >> I >> but but I if they're coming from if they're coming from different places, I absolutely agree with you. >> Yeah. Yeah. I guess what I'm trying to discourage is the >> Yeah, I guess what I'm trying to discourage is I know we've talked to Chaken subscribers at the Stanbury conference over the years and they say, you know, I I run all of the picks through uh Dan Ferrris's thinking through uh the altimeter from alimemetry through the power gauge and the Stansbury score. And I said, uh-uh, you you're going to have analysis paralysis. you know, zero in on the one or two people that you really believe in and methodologies and and leave it at that because otherwise you'll be sitting there looking for the perfect uh situation and there there's no perfect in Wall Street as we know. >> Yeah, that's I recently was had reason to study to revisit Marty's list and you know you can't know everything. That's one of the rules. You just you can't know everything. >> Yeah. And and if you try to do that, >> where I thought you were headed with that, Mark, is that you try to do that and and if you look for consensus in the market, you the idea might be overdone. You you might be the last one. >> That's exactly I I was trying to dredge up the word consensus. >> The power gauge tips your hand early, right? It's like the power gauge is like your your early peak at the stock. It's it's before other people are are clued into it, which is nice, right? Well, the power gauge uh really has three factors that have to do with what the analysts are doing and saying about the stocks they cover and how companies report visav the analyst. So, three of the 20 factors uh really give you an inside look into what the smartest people on Wall Street are saying. So if analysts are raising their estimates as they are with FIX and they're raising their price targets uh and then a company reports better than expected earnings that that's you know sort of a triple play and that kind of consensus I like. You know when uh when a company raises guidance beats earnings and beats sales estimates those are the stocks that tend to perform very well over the next six months. >> There you go. And the power gauge is really good at finding them. I mean, it's uh >> it has been. Yeah. I owe that to a guy named George Douglas. I was at Drexel Burnham before the this the proverbial s hit the fan. And George had a quant database. There were only two on Wall Street at the time. U Morgan Stanley had one and George had one at Drexel and he did the pioneering work in earnings surprise and earnings estimate revision and he's still managing$5 billion dollars on the West Coast today. So, you know, I learned at the foot of the master how important it is when analysts are moving away from the pack and and that's really important. And the power gauge is geared to find those stops. >> And you're talking about before the stuff hit the fan with uh you know the junk bond thing during the 80s, right? >> Yes. Okay. >> Yeah. I was there from 82 to 87. I got out in September of 87. Uh pure luck. >> September of 87. No kidding. What did >> Well, I started my own broke I started my own brokerage firm and I had been buying Drexel stock with loans from Chase Manhattan. Funny. Uh, you know, so I wasn't putting up but 20% of the cash and I informed the management that I was leaving and they said, "Oh, it's hard to see you go, but you're going to have to sell your stock." And I said, "Why?" They said, "Well, that's the rule. You leave the company and you have to sell it back." I got the absolute high tick on direct. It was privately held on Drexel Stock and uh you know then October of ' 87 came and the rest is history but so sometimes it's better to be lucky than good. >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> Well done, you know. >> Well, if anybody >> I was just listening to um new this new book that came out from John Malone, his memoir and uh so far it's really good. I'm only a couple chapters in. Um, and he brings up uh part of how they were able to get started was the junk bonds from Drexel Burnham. >> Yeah, it was >> uh early on which will help fuel the whole uh beginning of the cable his cable empire. So, um >> exactly. >> I thought of you Drexelber. >> Those Liberty stocks aren't doing very well, are they, Cy? >> No. >> The various Liberty um holding companies. I mean, they own a lot of interesting properties, but somehow I don't think Wall Street gets it. >> Yeah, they It's funny because they I hear them pitched constantly, all the different ones at like value events and various events and then I go back and look a year or two later, I'm like, "Oh, oh, well, didn't you know that that fizzled? >> Glad I missed." >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, something like Charter Communications, which is, you know, second largest cable company in the country, is just in a downtrend for two years. >> Cord cutting and um cost cutting. Cable is is and will be in a very difficult spot. >> Yes. But, uh the thing I wanted to ask you about was AI. Well, you brought it up a little bit already. I think last time you were here. Um, you talked about like the similarities to the the buildup of the dot bubble and how I think I forgot what year you said we might have been in like 95 or 96. >> 96. Yep. >> 96. Okay. Uh, what year are we in 97? Because we're 97. >> We're in 97. Okay. But be mindful that there was a huge drop in October of 97 and then another the I think it was the Thai bot crisis or uh long-term capital management in October of 98. So the road to new highs in the NASDAQ back then was uh not straight up but there was a lot more to go and I think there's a lot more to go this time. >> I occasionally tell the story of standing on the corner of uh St. Paul Street and I forget the cross street there. It's where that one building that Steve Sugar and Porter Stansbury and I worked in together on August 31st during the LTCM crisis and and listening to Steve basically school us, you know, the the the Fed's going to intervene and they're going to save this and this is going to be a great bottom and the market's going to soar after this. And of course, that's exactly what happened. >> Uh I will never forget it. Steve taught me a lot that day about >> Yeah. John John Merryweather did us all a favor ultimately. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's right. >> 97 and 97. A as >> as we're as we're speaking uh on this day we're speaking uh Oracle shares are up 40% in one day uh intraday right now. Like >> no kidding. Can we talk about history repeating or rhyming like like what? >> Yeah. Well, did you see the projections from from Larry Ellison? There are, you know, uh they're doing I think 14 billion in data center revenues and he's saying over the next three years 120 billion in data center revenues. >> I mean that's you know it's amazing. >> It is. That's what spurred the the By the way, the power gauge had been bullish. It was neutral heading into the earnings report, but one of our technical indicators in chaken analytics gave what we call a relative strength buy signal on Oracle two days ago. >> Wow. >> And we didn't pick up on it for subscribers because the power gauge had turned neutral, but the technicals were beautifully set up for a uh a good earnings. >> Yeah. I mean I >> reaction and >> I assume he's talking about software revenues for Oracle which is great. Um of course >> no he's talk no he's talking about data center revenues uh you know the stuff that Microsoft and and uh Amazon with AWS >> Yeah. Well then he's crazy opinion. Yeah he's crazy in my opinion. Yeah, >> that the that the one thing we learned from the dot boom was that >> internet usage went up a thousandfold and the telecom services revenues were cut in half from over 20 years. So >> yeah, I I mean it's a it's a mini bubble in the making. No, no doubt about it. But I think >> there's more there there than there was in 2000. You know, there aren't that many.com. Yeah, there aren't that many pets.com around. There are um Exodus, which hosted the data centers. Uh >> that's right, >> Magg Whitman, Exodus. >> Yeah. And the folks building them aren't like debtfueled cash burners. They're I mean they're debt fueled. They're they're actually uh the big hyperscalers are in a negative net cash position, but just barely. And they're loaded with cash and their core businesses gush cash. I mean, they're just like the most cash gushing businesses on the face of the earth. Yep. >> So, they're not there's going to be no word coms here, right? >> No. Well, there'll be one, but I we don't know which one it is, >> right? That's right. >> Yeah. >> Same page. I feel like from this I feel like from this point forward, you know, we gota just keep an eye, but like, right, shouldn't we be keeping an eye out for all these like for for the for the for the bad.com examples? >> I I agree with you. We've we've developed an earnings quality score. my associate Joe Austin who's got 40 years of experience analyzing tech stocks and uh actually running the short book of a hedge fund um and and I have developed an earnings quality score for his new um break uh breakthrough investor and it basically looks at acrruels uh and it looks at cash conversion and that's a pretty uh simple way to see who's real and who's not. you won't catch all of the fraudsters. But if companies are uh you know booking sales, but they're not converting that to cash, then there's a red flag right there. I agree with you. You've got to if you're going to participate in AI going forward, you have to have some way of uh testing the balance sheet and the income statement to make sure there's no funny business going on. Yeah, it's you're you Mark are one of the folks who has impressed upon me that um you got to have the full package, right? You you it's fundamentals, it's technicals, it's quantitative, it's you know, whatever else, a little little dash of behavioral finance here and there, whatever it is, you got to have all the pieces uh to to do it right to be a trader and to make these kind of calls that you're making on, you know, what like a six month. I've always said that fundamentals drive the market but technicals drive the market to extremes and you've you know that we're seeing that in Oracle this morning and because of that we're going to be uh recommending that in our one newsletter which is trading oriented uh that that people take some profits because this spike has sort of dragged along a lot of tech stocks that had been lagging a bit in the last four weeks because clearly tech has been was being sold over the last four weeks uh a lot of the component stocks like AMD, Nvidia, Micron and so forth were lagging and and this announcement from Oracle has pulled them all up. >> Mark, what do you make of the fact that gold has outperformed so much of the stock market this year? >> 10th 10th month in a row that China has added to their gold reserves because they don't want to be dependent on the dollar as their reserve currency. There's no other explanation in my mind for that. >> Yeah, I sent the chart around recently about uh you know showing that the value of gold eclipsing the value of foreign treasury holdings. >> That's what it's all about. Until people uh have confidence that the rule of law is uh and and contracts are going to be uh adhered to in the US, the dollar is going to be under pressure and gold's going to be bought by the central banks around the world. >> Own so own gold among other things. >> How about how about gold equities? They've actually they've actually had a nice run here too. Um, have you have you seen signals from >> We have and we debated even you know doing a special section of one of our newsletters for metal and mining stocks but we passed on that just because uh you know gold is so much of a political uh statement right now for the central banks around the world. So the power ga if someone's a power gauge subscriber and gets they can find these metal and mining stocks all on their own. I just I as with you, Dan, I like to stay in my comfort zone. Like I've never made money on a biotech stock. If I recommend a bio, if one of our editors recommends a biotech stock, >> yeah, >> I'll be surprised. I I'm always late to the party or miss the move. So, you've got to stick in in investing in general. I'm not talking about trading, but investing in general. You've got to stick to your knitting and know, you know, you've got to know something about the space that you're uh focusing on. So, tech I really know. >> Consumer discretionary I think I know. Uh some, you know, entertainment stocks, but metals and mining's just never been my thing. So, I uh even when the power gauge is leading us there, it's not going to be my first choice for terms of a recommendation. But that doesn't mean that a power gauge subscriber uh ch analytics subscriber can't do this on their own. It's really simple, >> right? They can use your tools. That's the cool thing about it. >> Yeah, we have this disco the discovery engine. You just put in a stock uh that has a a bullish rating. I'm going to click on my screen here and tell you one so we give the viewers something of value. And then it'll find stocks like that. So, if I go into metals and mining, is this fair game while we're on the air? >> Sure, man. This is great. >> Let's have a little live uh >> Yeah. So, um yeah, I mean, Metals and Mining actually XME has a bullish rating for the the ETF itself and the power gauge. >> Mhm. And there's stocks like CMC with a bullish uh rating. Um Royal RGLD. So let's just take RGLD, royal gold, which is making it >> double top here at 190 and see I'm putting this symbol into our discovery engine. >> Okay. >> And now I'm getting five stocks like royal gold with bullish ratings. So, Agneo, Eagle Mines, uh, Alamos Gold, Anglo Gold, Barrack Mining, and B2 Gold Corp, BTG. So, all of them have bullish ratings, and that's how easy it is in the power gauge. As I said a few minutes ago, I I really don't know a lot about this space in the market, but you don't need to if you have an opinion. So if anybody wanted to find gold stocks with bullish ratings, there they are. And those are not in the ETF, by the way. >> I think Barrack might be, but >> probably. Yeah. >> So uh the power gauge enables you to move outside of the conventional space as defined by say S&P uh industry group ETF. >> Very cool. Thanks for that. That's great. We could probably sit here and we could probably sit here and do this all day and people would love it, man. Uh you you you're absolutely right. >> Uh but yeah, I love I we have recommended we've had a great run so far on um Royal Gold in uh in um Extreme Value because we love royalty companies. That that's a wonderful just cash gushing model, business model. In fact, it's just about the only place most regular non-mining specialist investors should invest in when they want to go with that. >> I agree. >> Um, it's just >> there's another royalty company that we were looking at and I don't uh have the name at the tip of my tongue. >> Weaten or excuse me, Wheaten Precious is a big one. Um, Franco Nevada is the big one. >> I think it was Franco Nevada. >> Yeah. Yeah, they're that Franco Nevada is the one that taught the world to love royalties, you know, and they started with gold royalties and now they've got energy and everything else and they have royalties and streams because it's so large. >> Let's follow up on uh that exercise we just did. I just typed uh fix comfort systems into the discovery engine >> and uh the first five stocks that come up are ACA or KOSA ACOM which is uh in one of our portfolios ACM construction engineering company >> uh Acuity which is a lighting company worldwide Cumins engine and Dicon DY. So these these are names that I would venture to say your uh subscribers and your viewers just don't even zero don't even know and before the discovery engine I wouldn't have uh known about it either. Another company on there is EME More Group which is building stuff. So uh there's a lot of names outside the Nvidias, the AMDs of the world and the Palunteers that are participating in the AI buildout. And I think that's going to go on for a good five years, assuming we don't get a total, you know, event that washes AI off the map. But I don't think that's going to happen. But you don't know. >> No. And and who who would it surprise if it ended up exactly like the internet and a bunch of the you know we got a bare market which washed out a bunch of the garbage and then you know all the all the stuff at the edge of the network like Amazon and and you know Google and Meta and all that stuff roared there will be you know they'll participate probably in AI too but there will be others at the edge right that we you know we have a we have a decent enough model for how this could go >> and that wouldn't surprise me at There will be trillions of value created. We just don't know exactly who's who's going to do it yet, >> right? We don't know who >> Here's what your >> here's what your viewers should know that in 2001 and 2002, small cap value stocks soared >> while the internet bubble was bursting when the Cisco of the world were going down 90%. >> Oh yeah. Uh Chuck Royce's small cap value fund just skyrocketed because and the power gauge picked up on those names. >> Excellent. Yeah, that was a great moment for value. That was probably the last great moment for it. Um that was when you had to buy all the banks and homebuilders and uh you know Berkshire Hathaway and all the rest of it. in fact because they were they were all underperforming and then during the boom everybody found them and of course some of those the banks and home builders you know a few years later had a little problem but you know up until then they roared as did >> Absolutely. Yeah. >> Yep. It was a good moment for value. Great moment. >> Well, mining stocks you can go back to 1973 to the bare market of 734 and gold stocks uh were fabulous. >> Oh yeah. Well, yeah. And that was a two-year bare market went down 53%. >> Yeah. Yeah. The 70s were like, you know, practically the golden age, you know. Um I I still hearing stories from, you know, the older folks who participated in that. And you know folks who are brokers are telling me always tell me things like you know to in 19 toward the end like 197879 80 there you know people would call us up with we we'd know nothing more than a ticker symbol and the stock would roar 100% in a week or you know it was crazy. >> We're not there yet. We we could get there with with with some of this stuff. I I I fully believe that the the small cap mining stocks, they always get to that moment. We're we're nowhere near there yet. Um but but they're having a nice moment here. I own a bunch of them myself and they're they're making me very happy. I'm a very happy small cap mining stock owner right now. >> There you go. >> Yeah. Uh and you know, as you point out, there the the power gauge is finding some great mining stocks. All those are in fact, you know, you mentioned like Agniko Eagle was one. I mean that's one of the highest quality mining companies on the face of the earth and it doesn't surprise me all at all that you're finding that. Um and would Alamos another one another great one. So yeah, great list of >> Well, you you mentioned Marty's wife who was was a really good friend of mine. I don't throw those terms around lightly, but Marty and I spent many mornings at the beach together while he was writing his market letter. And Marty used to say, "I can tell you what, but I don't always know why." And that feeds into your uh comment from Marty that you can't know everything. But knowing what is really important, what to buy. >> Marty's basically, I mean, other people like the turtle traders did teach us some of this, but he's really to me the guy who taught us about, you know, don't fight the tape, don't fight the Fed, right? >> Cut your losses short, let your profits run. all those like trading commandments that every single trader we've ever interviewed has confirmed. Like I'm talking about every single one we always wind up there where Marty Zwag was in the 80s and 90s, right? Um still to this day those are the commandments. >> The bulletin Dan Marty Swag started in the newsletter business. >> Oh yeah, I'm aware. Yeah. >> Out of Wharton. Y >> out of Wharton. Yeah. I mean, he and his wife, uh, she did the mailing, put the stamp on the letter, and sent it out, and that's how the his business began. >> Yeah. I have a I have Marty's Wag a bit on the brain right now because I just wrote a Stanberry Digest this past Friday about him. So, I'm I had my head in in the rules and in some of his history and the book, Winning on Wall Street, and all of it. So, >> yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Really, >> really cool. >> 17 his list of 17 rules. That's >> Oh, yeah. I I printed out at one point it might have been after talking to you Mark about I mean you might have mentioned it and I printed it out you know it's an old typewriter font and >> um >> they all still apply all the lessons still apply >> yeah today I think I mean so yeah >> because human nature hasn't changed you know and and psych psychology is a big factor in the market whether it's momentum or herd or analysts following one another you know the the basic rules still work. Now, I'd rather follow Marty's basic rules than Benjamin Graham or Warren Buffett's basic rules because those that requires staying power of a lifetime and and access to a lot of cheap capital in an insurance company. But Marty's wag is for real investors. >> Cheap capital and leverage. Few people ever talk about the leverage in and it's, you know, over time it's been about 1.6x 6x for Buffett and that made a difference too. I mean he had special situation there and of course he's a genius so he exploited it to the maximum and you know >> yep >> the rest is history but yeah >> other things are happening there besides just being a good stock picker. >> So uh let's see where are we here. We've got all kinds of good ideas. We've got a list of gold stocks. We've got names that the discovery engine is telling us about that, you know, frankly, a couple of them I never heard of, which I I'm surprised at this point. I thought I I thought I've heard the name of everything, you know, of every big cap. >> Well, check out check out a stock like Diccom Dy. Uh it's not on any of our lists right now, but uh it recently made a new high up around 280. It pulled back to 240. We got an oversold buy signal on it. bullish power gauge rating >> and a chaken money flow which measures uh smart money accumulation has been deep mountains of greens since April. So smart money has been buying stocks like this since April. The power gauge turned bullish in May at about 180. But these are the companies that people are not looking at that are going to fuel um their stock prices because of the AI uh infrastructure buildout. And one of the things that's interesting to me about the market is that this leg of the bull market has been fueled by capital spending, not by consumers. >> Yes. >> And I think that's a big deal. >> It is a big deal because they're building something real. They're they're building something. >> It also does something for the income statements. Dan, uh, think about this, and it it may be a little bit in the weeds, but Microsoft buys chips from Nvidia. Nvidia books it as revenue, as they should. Microsoft books it as a capital expense, >> writes it off. This that's a virtuous circle that's going to go on for quite a quite a while until it doesn't. But, you know, from uh and that helps fuel stock prices. >> I will stick with with my initial. It's real is is what we're saying. You know, it's not um it is >> when things get to be a bubble, there are there's leverage and excess liquidity and there, you know, however you might define liquidity, it's a nebulous, nearly meaningless term most of the time. But but it um you know there there are issues there when when you get to a true overinflated bubble. But as has often been pointed out by people like you know George Soros and and Templeton and all these other people over the years like the bubble has roots in reality right and you're describing the reality you know the income statement. Well, the the head strategist at Bank of America this morning uh said there's uh what we all know 7.2 trillion dollars in money market funds and that's enough to fuel um rallies for a long time as long as the fundamentals hold up. >> Right. >> I think two trillion of that is individuals and five trillion is corporate. >> Yeah. I'm I'm always a little leerary of um cash on the sidelines arguments, but the point is that there there's there's plenty of capital to be allocated and that is that is certainly true. Um, and >> well, and to me when I read that, it was oops. You know, they may be ringing a bell here on a short-term top when Maril Lynch Bank of America is talking about >> the reason to be bullish is because of the money in in uh money market funds. Well, that same money was there in April. >> Yeah. >> You know, when the market dropped like a stone. So, uh, I I to me it was a red flag >> and most of it was there before when the you know, it's it's um it's it's an odd it's a it it's a troublesome argument to me, but uh as you say, it does seem to have some value as a it's a it's something to know. It's something to think about, I think. You know, maybe you don't trade it. You don't really do anything with it, but it's an interesting data point. It's worth talking about for five minutes every time it comes up, I think. I'm I'm as interested in the $350 billion that that money generates at 5%. >> Yeah. >> Well, five is probably going to be four very soon. But >> yeah, >> that's $350 billion that could easily go into stocks. >> Sure. >> Oh, yeah. That >> or you know, consumer discretionary spending, which we haven't seen yet. >> Yep. We um it was a couple years ago when I noticed that. Wow. T bills are back. You know, T- bills are 5% again. And and I and I told people at our conference, investing is back, right? Because when interest rates are zero, we're all speculating no matter what we think we're doing, in my humble opinion. And >> uh I couldn't agree more. >> Yeah. And investing is back, right? When you've got this anchor in your portfolio cranking out, even 4% I think is still a decent number. >> You're you're saying, "Show me, you know, show." And and of course the power gauge does that, right? You're Mark Jac is the ultimate Yes. I'll show you guy. Um >> yeah, just tell me. >> But you know, one other thing to note and it's been a a bullish factor is that millennials own stocks. They don't own houses, they rent. Uh they don't believe in banks, checking accounts. They buy stocks, which is, you know, one of the reasons Robin Hood has been so strong. uh as a stock. I think it's more cryptoreated than but millennials own a bigger percentage have a bigger percentage of their assets in stocks than they've ever had. >> And they don't they don't really believe in fundamentals and >> yeah I I think and it's you know it's fun for them. They know these companies but I you know they're not value investors. That's for sure. And that's part of the reason that there's so much consternation uh you know from old-time analysts like you and me about valuations that these millennials don't care. They absolutely don't care about valuations. That's based on surveys, not, you know, not a guess. >> Well, look, Mark, you and I both know at this point where valuations are, a whole lot of people don't care about them. So what you're telling me is absolutely has to be true. By definition it's true if they're buying, right? So yeah, all day long they don't care about valuation. >> Yeah. I mean, they're stretched at uh clearly for the mega cap stocks, but you drop down to the other 400 stocks in the S&P and uh they're pretty reasonable. >> There are some deals. >> Question is where are the earnings being generated, >> right? And you are, I won't say uniquely suited to tell us that, but um certainly well suited, well equipped to be able to tell us that. And you tell and you're in the business. >> Very kind. I'm just the me I'm just the messenger. The power gauge does the heavy lifting. >> I I knew you'd say that. The tool is set and you're just, you know, telling the world what it says. Well, um we're we're getting near the time for our final question, but we're not there yet. Okay. We're not there yet. And we've covered a lot of ground here. We've got a list of stocks that, you know, really nice names in, you know, precious metals and um and things you never would have heard of without the Discovery Engine. Um we've addressed gold and gold stocks. Um we've addressed uh you know, the bond market. our our friend of the of the show who's been on Paul Podulski who used to work for Ray Dalio likes to say, you know, the there there are there are bonds in all your stocks, just so you know. So, we've covered that. >> Uh I wonder what we haven't covered. Do you have anything coming up? Do you have um you know, is there a new presentation coming out that we need to know about? Is there is there anything coming up that we really need to know about? Because I know you guys you do all kinds of things. you put out all kinds of videos and presentations and things and I just want to make sure I cover this base with you. >> We have two new products coming out in 2026. Uh and we'll have our year-end uh or the 2026 portfolio of 10 stocks coming up in uh late December or early January. But uh right now we're just trying to find what you said in the beginning, stocks to buy on pullbacks for our subscribers. Uh, and one way or another, we'll get a pullback in October. I don't know why or when, but that that's never failed me. So, >> that's great. Great. I'm glad to hear it. We, you know, we could use we could use a little breather to sort of reload the gun and and and fire off a couple more shots here. >> Yep. And uh I I'll see you at the Stanbury conference in Las Vegas in October. >> We'll all be there, man. We'll all be there. October I think it's like 20 21st and 22nd maybe if I'm right. >> Yep. >> Yeah. >> And that will be a pleasure as it always is. And if I don't even know if you can still get tickets to attend in person. Um, but if you can, you could probably just Google Stanbury Conference 2025 Las Vegas and and it'll take you right to it. >> Um, >> it's a great array of speakers. I know. >> Yeah, >> absolutely. I mean, we get all kinds of folks. I mean, we've had Michael Lewis and last year we had Michael Lewis and Billy Bean who Lewis wrote the book Moneyball about. Um, it people like that, heavy hitters. Um, I made fast friends with uh former Governor Rick Perry from Texas. All kinds of folks. We had a woman who was a um a CIA specialist in disguises and she was telling us about how she sat next to our colleagues at lunch. I mean, in disguise, they didn't know it was >> Oh, I Yeah, I couldn't make it last year because my wife came back from London and gave me the flu. So I uh had to cancel. >> Yeah. Yeah. One year I got when the conference was in Boston, I got to know a guy named William Cohen who's written was an investment banker with Lazard and Leman Brothers and he writes for an group called Puck News. you know, sort of online uh magazine >> and um I I will typically comment on an article he has written on a Sunday and I'll get a >> a reply right back and he's a smart guy about what's going on on Wall Street. Wrote that book about General Electric among others. >> Yeah, I I interviewed him about that. I've read a couple I read the Lazard book. He's a fantastic writer. I mean, he is a brilliant historian. If you never read a William Cohen book, Co Han, by the way, >> um you are I envy you. The the what you're about to discover. >> Yeah. >> Um really >> great writer, great reporter. Yeah. >> Yeah. He wrote a book about >> really good >> the Duke Lacrosse case about probably 15 years ago. >> Yeah. >> Um that I read, but yeah, >> through, you know, just connections >> uh a lot of Wall Street connections there obviously, too. So, >> yep. And a book about another one >> about called Four Friends about uh it's got JFK Jr. and three other guys that he knew all four of them. >> Um >> really really I'm glad you brought up William Cohen. Thank you for that, Mark. Yeah. >> All right. >> You ought to subscribe to Puck. I I find these internet magazines fascinating. I get two puck and then um Graden Carter who used to be the editor of Vanity Fair is a little more entertainmentoriented has one called airmail and they cost about $50 a year to subscribe and I find these very informative particularly puck because they have a lot of uh writers uh either talking about entertainment stocks or in the case of William Cohen deals and um I I think this is by the way I think This is the way people are getting their news. >> Yeah. >> It's the way it's the way I get that sort of inside story that you're not going to see in the Wall Street Journal or in the Financial Times. Sometimes William Cohen's right for the Financial Times. >> Yeah. Knowing Yeah, he is. Knowing that you read Puck and that Cohen's in it, I'm sitting here clicking on it on how to subscribe and it's like it's going to be like a hundred bucks for a year. It's nothing. So, >> Oh, you should be able to get a discounted price there. >> Oh, okay. But it's it's you know this is keeping journalists healthy. >> Oh, we desperately need that. I want to tell you I heard a quote the other day. It was so spot on. Unfortunately, it was a guy said, you know, journalism is about covering the story with a pillow until it stops moving. And unfortunately, that's that's too too right too often. Um but a guy like Cohen, he gets in, he finds the real story, he digs it out. It's very hard. Yes. >> Yeah. Particularly if you're interested in entertainment entertainment stocks. I mean, he's right on top of Warner uh you know, all the Discovery Complex and the various minations that go on there. The u the Comcast spin-off, the um he's he's really wired into what's going on and what's likely to happen from an investment point of view. >> Smart guy. Well, we're we're we I think we've sold enough puck subscriptions for now. Um let's let's let's deal with our final question, which is the same for every guest, no matter what the topic. And u if you have already said it, Mark, by all means, feel free to repeat it. The question is simple. It's for our listeners benefit. If you could give them a single takeaway, a single thought today, what would you like it to be? Never bet against the stock market because you think the world's coming to an end because it only happens once. >> Brilliant. Brilliant. Thank you for that. That is brilliant and it's perfectly true. Well, thanks for that and thanks for coming around, Mark. We always have it's always a great pleasure to talk with you. We always have a lively conversation. Um, thank you very much for that. >> Enjoyed it a lot, Corey. Thank you. See you guys in Las Vegas. Yeah, see you in Vegas. >> See you. >> Looking forward to it. >> Opinions expressed on this program are solely those of the contributor and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Stanbury Research, its parent company, or affiliates.
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[Music] Hello and welcome to the Stansbury Investor Hour. I'm Dan Ferris. I'm the editor of Extreme Value and the Ferris Report, both published by Stanberry Research. >> And I'm Corey McLaclin, editor of the Stanberry Daily Digest. Today we talk with Mark Chaken, the founder of Chin Analytics. Mark is a frequent guest of the show and you will find out why. It's for a very good reason. Get out your pens and pencils. Get ready to take notes. Get ready to write down ticker symbols and to learn something about investing. So, let's do it. Let's talk with Mark Chen. Let's do it right now. Mark, welcome back to the show. Always a pleasure. >> Dan, good to be with you. So, what um where where do we ever start? We've to you're well known to our to our listeners and we uh we talk to you fairly often. I think you're one of our most frequent guests, you know, two or three times a year. Um I I always wonder, you know, what is Mark thinking now? And I see I get some emails from you and I get emails about when the next market crash will happen and I think hm what is he what is this all about? Um maybe I should just ask you what's on your mind where you'd like to start. How would you like that? >> Well, let's put the crash scenario on on the back burner. that that was is based on historical patterns that talk about the second year of a presidential term. And 65% of all bare markets start in that year because the chickens sort of come home to roost based on the new policies that were implemented in year one, which we're going through right now in terms of tariffs and uh interest rates. But there's still some massive opportunities in front of us in my opinion into year end and probably into uh first quarter earnings reports back you know next April. So right now I am bullish. Uh I was looking for some volatility and downward price movement in September. Uh typical of seasonal patterns into an October low, but >> so far the prospect of a 25 or 50 basis point cut by the Fed has kept kept the market on sure footing. >> Yeah, that that cut thing is it's a little strange, isn't it? because certainly in major cutting major cutting cycles have tended to overwhelmingly to correlate with with recessions and declining markets. But we don't have that expectation anymore. They've beaten that out of us, haven't they? >> They have. But I just read a study uh this morning. There have been seven rate cuts since the Fed started announcing their policies at a FOMC meeting in roughly 1992. There have been seven rate cuts within 40 days of a new high in the S&P. So, it it's happened before. Uh it it basically just helps overheat an already good economy. >> Yeah. I'm not saying it's not a reason to be bullish. It it really throws some gasoline on the fire for sure. U >> Oh, definitely. But I think the key is to note that this isn't a oneoff uh outlier. This has happened before. And uh you know the employment numbers I guess are troubling for the Fed and with this uh inflation number that came out a PPI on Wednesday um down instead of up uh there's some cause for celebration and uh you know at the FDF FOMC meeting next week >> right you know I noticed I was looking um well I was thinking about with its sort of three three cut cycle from from last year, late last year. Um the the long end of the curve didn't really like it, right? And I noticed the tenure is still slightly above where it was before that. You know, it's like 4.1 or something maybe as we speak. And it was 3.6 at the beginning of that cutting. And the market clearly didn't like it. It was almost 5% at one point. But I also noticed that mortgage rates have come down more than than the 10-year like the mortgage the you know the bank rate average 30-year fixed right national average and that of course bodess well right if we get I I continue to believe if we get a five handle on mortgages man um you're you're going to see some action >> you certainly will in fact the chicken power gauge rating which as you know is a quantitative model with 20 factor s it's mostly fundamental and a little bit technical has turned bullish on the homebuilders uh and stocks like uh Dr. Horton specifically. >> Uh I mean it's interesting if the Fed does what they normally do which is to uh go into an interest rate cutting regime with the idea of cutting at almost every meeting. uh we could see 150 basis point drop in the Fed funds rate uh you know by June of next year and there are two uh industry groups that benefit from lower interest rates big time housing and biotech and those uh both those groups have broken out of long base periods recently and are uh established uptrends that are pretty impressive >> and I want you to know my agreement with you on these matters Mark has nothing to do with my position in software futures options? Nothing whatsoever. Just to totally >> Well, I But you raise a good point, Dan. You raise a good point. Uh there's a a group uh quote unquote of bond traders that are known as the bond vigilantes. >> Oh, yes. >> And they operate mostly at the long end and on the 30-year bond. And that's going to be the big uh conundrum for Scott Bessant, Secretary of the Treasury, and for whoever is controlling the Fed, you know, come December. >> 30-year bond yields are going to stay stubbornly high in my opinion because the bond vigilantes don't like super stimulation into an already strong economy. So the question is how does the Treasury handle that? And there's all sorts of mechanisms that are above my pay grade for issuance and buying bonds that they can do to try and push down the 30-year yield. But it's pretty tough >> to manipulate the bond traders. I mean, not manipulate, but to influence them when they think something should be uh different. Yeah, that part I agree that end of the market like we all know what happened on April 8th, right? Trump Trump said it out loud in public without any you know he said I looked at the bond market and it was scary and then he of course he backed off and that was like the tariff tantrum bottom. So, we know this is real. And I've written about I did a whole issue of my newsletter about this about how the bond market scared the crap out of, you know, u I guess it was, you know, Clinton and then Obama. They have all had their runins with the vigilantes and and and he's no different. But, um I agree a lot of the stuff is above my pay grade, but we know one thing they do is issue a ton of on the short end issue a ton of tea bills. Like that's like that's one of the you know big repeat arrows in the quiver. Well, okay, I guess we need more T bills and less 30-year, right? So, so they'll do that because they >> But here's the irony. Here's the irony, Dan. Part of the game plan coming out of the White House and the Treasury is to lower the long end of the yield curve so that the cost of servicing the US debt goes down. But if the 30-year stays where it is, that's not going to happen. So, as I said, that's that's why I look at the power gauge and the technicals because I even if I knew what was going to happen, I would probably make the wrong call in terms of what to do about it. So, uh the bond market's its own animal and uh we'll see how that plays out. But that that could create, you know, after the Fed decision uh on the 17th of September, what happens at the long end of the curve could create uh a little bit of a 5% pullback that I've been looking for and so far hasn't come. >> Right. And especially in September, right, that's the time to expect it. The worst month of the year, right, historically. So yeah, I'm right there with you on that one. Um, yeah, I'm interested because last September when the Fed cut their first cut was 50 basis points, I think the first of three, and all the long all the long-term yields went higher. They were heading lower into that meeting. And then when they actually made the decision, everything went higher, including mortgage rates. This time around, the like Dan said, the mortgage rates are going lower right now. And the long-term yields are headed lower, too. Like slightly lower from where they were. But what happens after I guess and then like how do they signal like if more rate cuts are coming you know I guess that >> well there that's an signal is an interesting word because the Fed is now in a blackout period ahead of the uh FOMC meeting on the 16th 17th and there's a reporter uh for Bloomberg Bloomberg or the Wall Street Journal but um he has a Greek name and he's known as the Fed whisperer. So right now 25 basis point cut is like guaranteed but the Fed uh futures market uh is now 50/50 that will get a 50 basis point cut but the Fed typically won't do that unless they've tipped their hand. So we have to look for this reporter, the Fed whisperer, probably after the CPI report and the employment numbers on unemployment numbers on Friday. You may get a tip off as to whether it's going to be 50 or just stick at 25. Who's who's the guy, Dan? I see you googling. >> Yeah, Nick Timos Tim. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yep. >> Yeah. And it's amazing that in this era of, you know, electronic communication, someone picks up the phone and says, "Hey, you know, maybe you want to be uh bullish on rate cuts here." >> But that's the way the game is played. >> So, how do we how do we make money for the subscribers to your podcast? Well, um it sounds like we uh we get long and if we hit this nice pullback in September, we really, you know, we're we're buying that dip for sure. >> I mean, >> I am. The question is, what are you buying? >> Um well, I'm buying the same sorts of, you know, cash gushing uh businesses that have good balance sheets and managements and all the rest of it um in extreme value. And I'm doing something completely different. And I'm running a a uh what I would call a truly diversified portfolio in the Ferrris report. But we all want to know what you're buying, Mark. That's why you're here. >> Yeah. What is the power game? >> Well, I think what are we what are we doing? >> There are there are three things driving this market in my opinion have been for the last six months. One of them is very strong corporate earnings particularly in the tech sector >> uh and related industries um you know and all of that feeds into the capital spending that's going on to build the infrastructure to support AI rollouts for the next five to seven years. And then the third thing are corporate buybacks. There's going to be $1.3 trillion in corporate buybacks this year and probably the same next year. So that's a big um sort of demand push for stocks where the power gauge is finding less obvious opportunities are in the construction and engineering stocks. For instance, the people who are either building the um power plants to feed electricity to the AI uh infrastructure uh all the companies who are building the actual buildings and and cooling them. So just as an example is company called Comfort Systems, the symbol is FIX. Uh they're in the air conditioning business basically, but they're using AI to s more be more sophisticated about dispersing cooling. Uh there there's a company that we took a big profit in recently that goes back 50 years. Amphanol, you probably remember it from the 70s. >> Um AP, they make connectors. Well, where are the connectors used? They're used when you build uh data centers. So, we're looking at that sort of portion of the market. There are some real estate companies, and there's one that we're going to recommend, I think, shortly, uh that are very uh profitable in selling um properties to people who are building data centers and in acquiring land and you know, getting the zoning permits. So I think AI disperses through the economy in a variety of ways and construction and engineering is clearly one of the uh the spots where the power gauge has has really zeroed in over the last six months. Also nuclear, you know, no matter how you slice it and particularly in an administration that's uh anti- wind and anti- solar, uh where else you going to go but nuclear or natural gas? And you I think nuclear is really interesting investment opportunity over the next five years. >> Yeah, nuclear. I like I've liked that one for some time now and it's been a winner. Um what you >> mentioned have uranium in one of didn't you have uranium in one of your portfolios? >> Oh yeah. Yeah. We we've um we've got a nice return on uh on a I shouldn't mention it because people pay extra to get that portfolio in that in extreme value. But yes, we we're doing pretty well with that. We've got a couple of uranium stocks. We do have um UEC is is for all the rest of the subscribers and that's a double that's been um if it's Yeah, I mean it it was I think we recommended it five or six and it's 12. So we in less than a year I mean so it's it's screaming that that sector is doing great. Also you mentioned fix comfort systems. That's one of the aforementioned cash gushers that I that we like in extreme value. So yeah. Um >> I know I do. You know how many times that consecutively they've raised their dividend? It's amazing. And I've before this whole AI construction boom I think nobody except my wife Sandy had ever zeroed in on the stock. But because of the power gauge, she found it. >> Yeah, that's that's cool. I like the fact that the power gauge found a stock that I mean I can't even remember when we first covered it. It's been like years. It's been it's been since you know like people in our company have like come and gone and it's been years since we found that one. Um and it's had a pretty good run here. >> I'm I'm happy to hear that. >> But you can't be in I'm sorry. You can't be indiscriminate. I mean uh Fix has really continued to move up. A company like Lennux, LII has sort of maxed out. It's in our 2025 year-end portfolio. Much more obvious air conditioning play, >> but um you know also involved with home construction. So uh fix is more uh attuned to this AI buildout, which I think is great. >> Yeah. All right. So, um I'm glad to hear >> I love when two when when multiple uh editors and people that know what they're doing land on the same stock for totally different reasons almost. >> Um yeah, and you know, as a reader or subscriber, I don't I don't really care why, you know, like like it's it's it's okay if that happens and all those things align. I always tell subscribers is like when >> three different people or four different people end up on the same stock. Um, like that's that's a great thing. It's you should pay attention to that. >> Well, that that Corey, that might be too much of a good thing. You know, there's an old expression in the corporate world. If you've got three people in a conference room and they all agree, you've got one too many people in the conference room. So, >> I >> but but I if they're coming from if they're coming from different places, I absolutely agree with you. >> Yeah. Yeah. I guess what I'm trying to discourage is the >> Yeah, I guess what I'm trying to discourage is I know we've talked to Chaken subscribers at the Stanbury conference over the years and they say, you know, I I run all of the picks through uh Dan Ferrris's thinking through uh the altimeter from alimemetry through the power gauge and the Stansbury score. And I said, uh-uh, you you're going to have analysis paralysis. you know, zero in on the one or two people that you really believe in and methodologies and and leave it at that because otherwise you'll be sitting there looking for the perfect uh situation and there there's no perfect in Wall Street as we know. >> Yeah, that's I recently was had reason to study to revisit Marty's list and you know you can't know everything. That's one of the rules. You just you can't know everything. >> Yeah. And and if you try to do that, >> where I thought you were headed with that, Mark, is that you try to do that and and if you look for consensus in the market, you the idea might be overdone. You you might be the last one. >> That's exactly I I was trying to dredge up the word consensus. >> The power gauge tips your hand early, right? It's like the power gauge is like your your early peak at the stock. It's it's before other people are are clued into it, which is nice, right? Well, the power gauge uh really has three factors that have to do with what the analysts are doing and saying about the stocks they cover and how companies report visav the analyst. So, three of the 20 factors uh really give you an inside look into what the smartest people on Wall Street are saying. So if analysts are raising their estimates as they are with FIX and they're raising their price targets uh and then a company reports better than expected earnings that that's you know sort of a triple play and that kind of consensus I like. You know when uh when a company raises guidance beats earnings and beats sales estimates those are the stocks that tend to perform very well over the next six months. >> There you go. And the power gauge is really good at finding them. I mean, it's uh >> it has been. Yeah. I owe that to a guy named George Douglas. I was at Drexel Burnham before the this the proverbial s hit the fan. And George had a quant database. There were only two on Wall Street at the time. U Morgan Stanley had one and George had one at Drexel and he did the pioneering work in earnings surprise and earnings estimate revision and he's still managing$5 billion dollars on the West Coast today. So, you know, I learned at the foot of the master how important it is when analysts are moving away from the pack and and that's really important. And the power gauge is geared to find those stops. >> And you're talking about before the stuff hit the fan with uh you know the junk bond thing during the 80s, right? >> Yes. Okay. >> Yeah. I was there from 82 to 87. I got out in September of 87. Uh pure luck. >> September of 87. No kidding. What did >> Well, I started my own broke I started my own brokerage firm and I had been buying Drexel stock with loans from Chase Manhattan. Funny. Uh, you know, so I wasn't putting up but 20% of the cash and I informed the management that I was leaving and they said, "Oh, it's hard to see you go, but you're going to have to sell your stock." And I said, "Why?" They said, "Well, that's the rule. You leave the company and you have to sell it back." I got the absolute high tick on direct. It was privately held on Drexel Stock and uh you know then October of ' 87 came and the rest is history but so sometimes it's better to be lucky than good. >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> Well done, you know. >> Well, if anybody >> I was just listening to um new this new book that came out from John Malone, his memoir and uh so far it's really good. I'm only a couple chapters in. Um, and he brings up uh part of how they were able to get started was the junk bonds from Drexel Burnham. >> Yeah, it was >> uh early on which will help fuel the whole uh beginning of the cable his cable empire. So, um >> exactly. >> I thought of you Drexelber. >> Those Liberty stocks aren't doing very well, are they, Cy? >> No. >> The various Liberty um holding companies. I mean, they own a lot of interesting properties, but somehow I don't think Wall Street gets it. >> Yeah, they It's funny because they I hear them pitched constantly, all the different ones at like value events and various events and then I go back and look a year or two later, I'm like, "Oh, oh, well, didn't you know that that fizzled? >> Glad I missed." >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, something like Charter Communications, which is, you know, second largest cable company in the country, is just in a downtrend for two years. >> Cord cutting and um cost cutting. Cable is is and will be in a very difficult spot. >> Yes. But, uh the thing I wanted to ask you about was AI. Well, you brought it up a little bit already. I think last time you were here. Um, you talked about like the similarities to the the buildup of the dot bubble and how I think I forgot what year you said we might have been in like 95 or 96. >> 96. Yep. >> 96. Okay. Uh, what year are we in 97? Because we're 97. >> We're in 97. Okay. But be mindful that there was a huge drop in October of 97 and then another the I think it was the Thai bot crisis or uh long-term capital management in October of 98. So the road to new highs in the NASDAQ back then was uh not straight up but there was a lot more to go and I think there's a lot more to go this time. >> I occasionally tell the story of standing on the corner of uh St. Paul Street and I forget the cross street there. It's where that one building that Steve Sugar and Porter Stansbury and I worked in together on August 31st during the LTCM crisis and and listening to Steve basically school us, you know, the the the Fed's going to intervene and they're going to save this and this is going to be a great bottom and the market's going to soar after this. And of course, that's exactly what happened. >> Uh I will never forget it. Steve taught me a lot that day about >> Yeah. John John Merryweather did us all a favor ultimately. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's right. >> 97 and 97. A as >> as we're as we're speaking uh on this day we're speaking uh Oracle shares are up 40% in one day uh intraday right now. Like >> no kidding. Can we talk about history repeating or rhyming like like what? >> Yeah. Well, did you see the projections from from Larry Ellison? There are, you know, uh they're doing I think 14 billion in data center revenues and he's saying over the next three years 120 billion in data center revenues. >> I mean that's you know it's amazing. >> It is. That's what spurred the the By the way, the power gauge had been bullish. It was neutral heading into the earnings report, but one of our technical indicators in chaken analytics gave what we call a relative strength buy signal on Oracle two days ago. >> Wow. >> And we didn't pick up on it for subscribers because the power gauge had turned neutral, but the technicals were beautifully set up for a uh a good earnings. >> Yeah. I mean I >> reaction and >> I assume he's talking about software revenues for Oracle which is great. Um of course >> no he's talk no he's talking about data center revenues uh you know the stuff that Microsoft and and uh Amazon with AWS >> Yeah. Well then he's crazy opinion. Yeah he's crazy in my opinion. Yeah, >> that the that the one thing we learned from the dot boom was that >> internet usage went up a thousandfold and the telecom services revenues were cut in half from over 20 years. So >> yeah, I I mean it's a it's a mini bubble in the making. No, no doubt about it. But I think >> there's more there there than there was in 2000. You know, there aren't that many.com. Yeah, there aren't that many pets.com around. There are um Exodus, which hosted the data centers. Uh >> that's right, >> Magg Whitman, Exodus. >> Yeah. And the folks building them aren't like debtfueled cash burners. They're I mean they're debt fueled. They're they're actually uh the big hyperscalers are in a negative net cash position, but just barely. And they're loaded with cash and their core businesses gush cash. I mean, they're just like the most cash gushing businesses on the face of the earth. Yep. >> So, they're not there's going to be no word coms here, right? >> No. Well, there'll be one, but I we don't know which one it is, >> right? That's right. >> Yeah. >> Same page. I feel like from this I feel like from this point forward, you know, we gota just keep an eye, but like, right, shouldn't we be keeping an eye out for all these like for for the for the for the bad.com examples? >> I I agree with you. We've we've developed an earnings quality score. my associate Joe Austin who's got 40 years of experience analyzing tech stocks and uh actually running the short book of a hedge fund um and and I have developed an earnings quality score for his new um break uh breakthrough investor and it basically looks at acrruels uh and it looks at cash conversion and that's a pretty uh simple way to see who's real and who's not. you won't catch all of the fraudsters. But if companies are uh you know booking sales, but they're not converting that to cash, then there's a red flag right there. I agree with you. You've got to if you're going to participate in AI going forward, you have to have some way of uh testing the balance sheet and the income statement to make sure there's no funny business going on. Yeah, it's you're you Mark are one of the folks who has impressed upon me that um you got to have the full package, right? You you it's fundamentals, it's technicals, it's quantitative, it's you know, whatever else, a little little dash of behavioral finance here and there, whatever it is, you got to have all the pieces uh to to do it right to be a trader and to make these kind of calls that you're making on, you know, what like a six month. I've always said that fundamentals drive the market but technicals drive the market to extremes and you've you know that we're seeing that in Oracle this morning and because of that we're going to be uh recommending that in our one newsletter which is trading oriented uh that that people take some profits because this spike has sort of dragged along a lot of tech stocks that had been lagging a bit in the last four weeks because clearly tech has been was being sold over the last four weeks uh a lot of the component stocks like AMD, Nvidia, Micron and so forth were lagging and and this announcement from Oracle has pulled them all up. >> Mark, what do you make of the fact that gold has outperformed so much of the stock market this year? >> 10th 10th month in a row that China has added to their gold reserves because they don't want to be dependent on the dollar as their reserve currency. There's no other explanation in my mind for that. >> Yeah, I sent the chart around recently about uh you know showing that the value of gold eclipsing the value of foreign treasury holdings. >> That's what it's all about. Until people uh have confidence that the rule of law is uh and and contracts are going to be uh adhered to in the US, the dollar is going to be under pressure and gold's going to be bought by the central banks around the world. >> Own so own gold among other things. >> How about how about gold equities? They've actually they've actually had a nice run here too. Um, have you have you seen signals from >> We have and we debated even you know doing a special section of one of our newsletters for metal and mining stocks but we passed on that just because uh you know gold is so much of a political uh statement right now for the central banks around the world. So the power ga if someone's a power gauge subscriber and gets they can find these metal and mining stocks all on their own. I just I as with you, Dan, I like to stay in my comfort zone. Like I've never made money on a biotech stock. If I recommend a bio, if one of our editors recommends a biotech stock, >> yeah, >> I'll be surprised. I I'm always late to the party or miss the move. So, you've got to stick in in investing in general. I'm not talking about trading, but investing in general. You've got to stick to your knitting and know, you know, you've got to know something about the space that you're uh focusing on. So, tech I really know. >> Consumer discretionary I think I know. Uh some, you know, entertainment stocks, but metals and mining's just never been my thing. So, I uh even when the power gauge is leading us there, it's not going to be my first choice for terms of a recommendation. But that doesn't mean that a power gauge subscriber uh ch analytics subscriber can't do this on their own. It's really simple, >> right? They can use your tools. That's the cool thing about it. >> Yeah, we have this disco the discovery engine. You just put in a stock uh that has a a bullish rating. I'm going to click on my screen here and tell you one so we give the viewers something of value. And then it'll find stocks like that. So, if I go into metals and mining, is this fair game while we're on the air? >> Sure, man. This is great. >> Let's have a little live uh >> Yeah. So, um yeah, I mean, Metals and Mining actually XME has a bullish rating for the the ETF itself and the power gauge. >> Mhm. And there's stocks like CMC with a bullish uh rating. Um Royal RGLD. So let's just take RGLD, royal gold, which is making it >> double top here at 190 and see I'm putting this symbol into our discovery engine. >> Okay. >> And now I'm getting five stocks like royal gold with bullish ratings. So, Agneo, Eagle Mines, uh, Alamos Gold, Anglo Gold, Barrack Mining, and B2 Gold Corp, BTG. So, all of them have bullish ratings, and that's how easy it is in the power gauge. As I said a few minutes ago, I I really don't know a lot about this space in the market, but you don't need to if you have an opinion. So if anybody wanted to find gold stocks with bullish ratings, there they are. And those are not in the ETF, by the way. >> I think Barrack might be, but >> probably. Yeah. >> So uh the power gauge enables you to move outside of the conventional space as defined by say S&P uh industry group ETF. >> Very cool. Thanks for that. That's great. We could probably sit here and we could probably sit here and do this all day and people would love it, man. Uh you you you're absolutely right. >> Uh but yeah, I love I we have recommended we've had a great run so far on um Royal Gold in uh in um Extreme Value because we love royalty companies. That that's a wonderful just cash gushing model, business model. In fact, it's just about the only place most regular non-mining specialist investors should invest in when they want to go with that. >> I agree. >> Um, it's just >> there's another royalty company that we were looking at and I don't uh have the name at the tip of my tongue. >> Weaten or excuse me, Wheaten Precious is a big one. Um, Franco Nevada is the big one. >> I think it was Franco Nevada. >> Yeah. Yeah, they're that Franco Nevada is the one that taught the world to love royalties, you know, and they started with gold royalties and now they've got energy and everything else and they have royalties and streams because it's so large. >> Let's follow up on uh that exercise we just did. I just typed uh fix comfort systems into the discovery engine >> and uh the first five stocks that come up are ACA or KOSA ACOM which is uh in one of our portfolios ACM construction engineering company >> uh Acuity which is a lighting company worldwide Cumins engine and Dicon DY. So these these are names that I would venture to say your uh subscribers and your viewers just don't even zero don't even know and before the discovery engine I wouldn't have uh known about it either. Another company on there is EME More Group which is building stuff. So uh there's a lot of names outside the Nvidias, the AMDs of the world and the Palunteers that are participating in the AI buildout. And I think that's going to go on for a good five years, assuming we don't get a total, you know, event that washes AI off the map. But I don't think that's going to happen. But you don't know. >> No. And and who who would it surprise if it ended up exactly like the internet and a bunch of the you know we got a bare market which washed out a bunch of the garbage and then you know all the all the stuff at the edge of the network like Amazon and and you know Google and Meta and all that stuff roared there will be you know they'll participate probably in AI too but there will be others at the edge right that we you know we have a we have a decent enough model for how this could go >> and that wouldn't surprise me at There will be trillions of value created. We just don't know exactly who's who's going to do it yet, >> right? We don't know who >> Here's what your >> here's what your viewers should know that in 2001 and 2002, small cap value stocks soared >> while the internet bubble was bursting when the Cisco of the world were going down 90%. >> Oh yeah. Uh Chuck Royce's small cap value fund just skyrocketed because and the power gauge picked up on those names. >> Excellent. Yeah, that was a great moment for value. That was probably the last great moment for it. Um that was when you had to buy all the banks and homebuilders and uh you know Berkshire Hathaway and all the rest of it. in fact because they were they were all underperforming and then during the boom everybody found them and of course some of those the banks and home builders you know a few years later had a little problem but you know up until then they roared as did >> Absolutely. Yeah. >> Yep. It was a good moment for value. Great moment. >> Well, mining stocks you can go back to 1973 to the bare market of 734 and gold stocks uh were fabulous. >> Oh yeah. Well, yeah. And that was a two-year bare market went down 53%. >> Yeah. Yeah. The 70s were like, you know, practically the golden age, you know. Um I I still hearing stories from, you know, the older folks who participated in that. And you know folks who are brokers are telling me always tell me things like you know to in 19 toward the end like 197879 80 there you know people would call us up with we we'd know nothing more than a ticker symbol and the stock would roar 100% in a week or you know it was crazy. >> We're not there yet. We we could get there with with with some of this stuff. I I I fully believe that the the small cap mining stocks, they always get to that moment. We're we're nowhere near there yet. Um but but they're having a nice moment here. I own a bunch of them myself and they're they're making me very happy. I'm a very happy small cap mining stock owner right now. >> There you go. >> Yeah. Uh and you know, as you point out, there the the power gauge is finding some great mining stocks. All those are in fact, you know, you mentioned like Agniko Eagle was one. I mean that's one of the highest quality mining companies on the face of the earth and it doesn't surprise me all at all that you're finding that. Um and would Alamos another one another great one. So yeah, great list of >> Well, you you mentioned Marty's wife who was was a really good friend of mine. I don't throw those terms around lightly, but Marty and I spent many mornings at the beach together while he was writing his market letter. And Marty used to say, "I can tell you what, but I don't always know why." And that feeds into your uh comment from Marty that you can't know everything. But knowing what is really important, what to buy. >> Marty's basically, I mean, other people like the turtle traders did teach us some of this, but he's really to me the guy who taught us about, you know, don't fight the tape, don't fight the Fed, right? >> Cut your losses short, let your profits run. all those like trading commandments that every single trader we've ever interviewed has confirmed. Like I'm talking about every single one we always wind up there where Marty Zwag was in the 80s and 90s, right? Um still to this day those are the commandments. >> The bulletin Dan Marty Swag started in the newsletter business. >> Oh yeah, I'm aware. Yeah. >> Out of Wharton. Y >> out of Wharton. Yeah. I mean, he and his wife, uh, she did the mailing, put the stamp on the letter, and sent it out, and that's how the his business began. >> Yeah. I have a I have Marty's Wag a bit on the brain right now because I just wrote a Stanberry Digest this past Friday about him. So, I'm I had my head in in the rules and in some of his history and the book, Winning on Wall Street, and all of it. So, >> yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Really, >> really cool. >> 17 his list of 17 rules. That's >> Oh, yeah. I I printed out at one point it might have been after talking to you Mark about I mean you might have mentioned it and I printed it out you know it's an old typewriter font and >> um >> they all still apply all the lessons still apply >> yeah today I think I mean so yeah >> because human nature hasn't changed you know and and psych psychology is a big factor in the market whether it's momentum or herd or analysts following one another you know the the basic rules still work. Now, I'd rather follow Marty's basic rules than Benjamin Graham or Warren Buffett's basic rules because those that requires staying power of a lifetime and and access to a lot of cheap capital in an insurance company. But Marty's wag is for real investors. >> Cheap capital and leverage. Few people ever talk about the leverage in and it's, you know, over time it's been about 1.6x 6x for Buffett and that made a difference too. I mean he had special situation there and of course he's a genius so he exploited it to the maximum and you know >> yep >> the rest is history but yeah >> other things are happening there besides just being a good stock picker. >> So uh let's see where are we here. We've got all kinds of good ideas. We've got a list of gold stocks. We've got names that the discovery engine is telling us about that, you know, frankly, a couple of them I never heard of, which I I'm surprised at this point. I thought I I thought I've heard the name of everything, you know, of every big cap. >> Well, check out check out a stock like Diccom Dy. Uh it's not on any of our lists right now, but uh it recently made a new high up around 280. It pulled back to 240. We got an oversold buy signal on it. bullish power gauge rating >> and a chaken money flow which measures uh smart money accumulation has been deep mountains of greens since April. So smart money has been buying stocks like this since April. The power gauge turned bullish in May at about 180. But these are the companies that people are not looking at that are going to fuel um their stock prices because of the AI uh infrastructure buildout. And one of the things that's interesting to me about the market is that this leg of the bull market has been fueled by capital spending, not by consumers. >> Yes. >> And I think that's a big deal. >> It is a big deal because they're building something real. They're they're building something. >> It also does something for the income statements. Dan, uh, think about this, and it it may be a little bit in the weeds, but Microsoft buys chips from Nvidia. Nvidia books it as revenue, as they should. Microsoft books it as a capital expense, >> writes it off. This that's a virtuous circle that's going to go on for quite a quite a while until it doesn't. But, you know, from uh and that helps fuel stock prices. >> I will stick with with my initial. It's real is is what we're saying. You know, it's not um it is >> when things get to be a bubble, there are there's leverage and excess liquidity and there, you know, however you might define liquidity, it's a nebulous, nearly meaningless term most of the time. But but it um you know there there are issues there when when you get to a true overinflated bubble. But as has often been pointed out by people like you know George Soros and and Templeton and all these other people over the years like the bubble has roots in reality right and you're describing the reality you know the income statement. Well, the the head strategist at Bank of America this morning uh said there's uh what we all know 7.2 trillion dollars in money market funds and that's enough to fuel um rallies for a long time as long as the fundamentals hold up. >> Right. >> I think two trillion of that is individuals and five trillion is corporate. >> Yeah. I'm I'm always a little leerary of um cash on the sidelines arguments, but the point is that there there's there's plenty of capital to be allocated and that is that is certainly true. Um, and >> well, and to me when I read that, it was oops. You know, they may be ringing a bell here on a short-term top when Maril Lynch Bank of America is talking about >> the reason to be bullish is because of the money in in uh money market funds. Well, that same money was there in April. >> Yeah. >> You know, when the market dropped like a stone. So, uh, I I to me it was a red flag >> and most of it was there before when the you know, it's it's um it's it's an odd it's a it it's a troublesome argument to me, but uh as you say, it does seem to have some value as a it's a it's something to know. It's something to think about, I think. You know, maybe you don't trade it. You don't really do anything with it, but it's an interesting data point. It's worth talking about for five minutes every time it comes up, I think. I'm I'm as interested in the $350 billion that that money generates at 5%. >> Yeah. >> Well, five is probably going to be four very soon. But >> yeah, >> that's $350 billion that could easily go into stocks. >> Sure. >> Oh, yeah. That >> or you know, consumer discretionary spending, which we haven't seen yet. >> Yep. We um it was a couple years ago when I noticed that. Wow. T bills are back. You know, T- bills are 5% again. And and I and I told people at our conference, investing is back, right? Because when interest rates are zero, we're all speculating no matter what we think we're doing, in my humble opinion. And >> uh I couldn't agree more. >> Yeah. And investing is back, right? When you've got this anchor in your portfolio cranking out, even 4% I think is still a decent number. >> You're you're saying, "Show me, you know, show." And and of course the power gauge does that, right? You're Mark Jac is the ultimate Yes. I'll show you guy. Um >> yeah, just tell me. >> But you know, one other thing to note and it's been a a bullish factor is that millennials own stocks. They don't own houses, they rent. Uh they don't believe in banks, checking accounts. They buy stocks, which is, you know, one of the reasons Robin Hood has been so strong. uh as a stock. I think it's more cryptoreated than but millennials own a bigger percentage have a bigger percentage of their assets in stocks than they've ever had. >> And they don't they don't really believe in fundamentals and >> yeah I I think and it's you know it's fun for them. They know these companies but I you know they're not value investors. That's for sure. And that's part of the reason that there's so much consternation uh you know from old-time analysts like you and me about valuations that these millennials don't care. They absolutely don't care about valuations. That's based on surveys, not, you know, not a guess. >> Well, look, Mark, you and I both know at this point where valuations are, a whole lot of people don't care about them. So what you're telling me is absolutely has to be true. By definition it's true if they're buying, right? So yeah, all day long they don't care about valuation. >> Yeah. I mean, they're stretched at uh clearly for the mega cap stocks, but you drop down to the other 400 stocks in the S&P and uh they're pretty reasonable. >> There are some deals. >> Question is where are the earnings being generated, >> right? And you are, I won't say uniquely suited to tell us that, but um certainly well suited, well equipped to be able to tell us that. And you tell and you're in the business. >> Very kind. I'm just the me I'm just the messenger. The power gauge does the heavy lifting. >> I I knew you'd say that. The tool is set and you're just, you know, telling the world what it says. Well, um we're we're getting near the time for our final question, but we're not there yet. Okay. We're not there yet. And we've covered a lot of ground here. We've got a list of stocks that, you know, really nice names in, you know, precious metals and um and things you never would have heard of without the Discovery Engine. Um we've addressed gold and gold stocks. Um we've addressed uh you know, the bond market. our our friend of the of the show who's been on Paul Podulski who used to work for Ray Dalio likes to say, you know, the there there are there are bonds in all your stocks, just so you know. So, we've covered that. >> Uh I wonder what we haven't covered. Do you have anything coming up? Do you have um you know, is there a new presentation coming out that we need to know about? Is there is there anything coming up that we really need to know about? Because I know you guys you do all kinds of things. you put out all kinds of videos and presentations and things and I just want to make sure I cover this base with you. >> We have two new products coming out in 2026. Uh and we'll have our year-end uh or the 2026 portfolio of 10 stocks coming up in uh late December or early January. But uh right now we're just trying to find what you said in the beginning, stocks to buy on pullbacks for our subscribers. Uh, and one way or another, we'll get a pullback in October. I don't know why or when, but that that's never failed me. So, >> that's great. Great. I'm glad to hear it. We, you know, we could use we could use a little breather to sort of reload the gun and and and fire off a couple more shots here. >> Yep. And uh I I'll see you at the Stanbury conference in Las Vegas in October. >> We'll all be there, man. We'll all be there. October I think it's like 20 21st and 22nd maybe if I'm right. >> Yep. >> Yeah. >> And that will be a pleasure as it always is. And if I don't even know if you can still get tickets to attend in person. Um, but if you can, you could probably just Google Stanbury Conference 2025 Las Vegas and and it'll take you right to it. >> Um, >> it's a great array of speakers. I know. >> Yeah, >> absolutely. I mean, we get all kinds of folks. I mean, we've had Michael Lewis and last year we had Michael Lewis and Billy Bean who Lewis wrote the book Moneyball about. Um, it people like that, heavy hitters. Um, I made fast friends with uh former Governor Rick Perry from Texas. All kinds of folks. We had a woman who was a um a CIA specialist in disguises and she was telling us about how she sat next to our colleagues at lunch. I mean, in disguise, they didn't know it was >> Oh, I Yeah, I couldn't make it last year because my wife came back from London and gave me the flu. So I uh had to cancel. >> Yeah. Yeah. One year I got when the conference was in Boston, I got to know a guy named William Cohen who's written was an investment banker with Lazard and Leman Brothers and he writes for an group called Puck News. you know, sort of online uh magazine >> and um I I will typically comment on an article he has written on a Sunday and I'll get a >> a reply right back and he's a smart guy about what's going on on Wall Street. Wrote that book about General Electric among others. >> Yeah, I I interviewed him about that. I've read a couple I read the Lazard book. He's a fantastic writer. I mean, he is a brilliant historian. If you never read a William Cohen book, Co Han, by the way, >> um you are I envy you. The the what you're about to discover. >> Yeah. >> Um really >> great writer, great reporter. Yeah. >> Yeah. He wrote a book about >> really good >> the Duke Lacrosse case about probably 15 years ago. >> Yeah. >> Um that I read, but yeah, >> through, you know, just connections >> uh a lot of Wall Street connections there obviously, too. So, >> yep. And a book about another one >> about called Four Friends about uh it's got JFK Jr. and three other guys that he knew all four of them. >> Um >> really really I'm glad you brought up William Cohen. Thank you for that, Mark. Yeah. >> All right. >> You ought to subscribe to Puck. I I find these internet magazines fascinating. I get two puck and then um Graden Carter who used to be the editor of Vanity Fair is a little more entertainmentoriented has one called airmail and they cost about $50 a year to subscribe and I find these very informative particularly puck because they have a lot of uh writers uh either talking about entertainment stocks or in the case of William Cohen deals and um I I think this is by the way I think This is the way people are getting their news. >> Yeah. >> It's the way it's the way I get that sort of inside story that you're not going to see in the Wall Street Journal or in the Financial Times. Sometimes William Cohen's right for the Financial Times. >> Yeah. Knowing Yeah, he is. Knowing that you read Puck and that Cohen's in it, I'm sitting here clicking on it on how to subscribe and it's like it's going to be like a hundred bucks for a year. It's nothing. So, >> Oh, you should be able to get a discounted price there. >> Oh, okay. But it's it's you know this is keeping journalists healthy. >> Oh, we desperately need that. I want to tell you I heard a quote the other day. It was so spot on. Unfortunately, it was a guy said, you know, journalism is about covering the story with a pillow until it stops moving. And unfortunately, that's that's too too right too often. Um but a guy like Cohen, he gets in, he finds the real story, he digs it out. It's very hard. Yes. >> Yeah. Particularly if you're interested in entertainment entertainment stocks. I mean, he's right on top of Warner uh you know, all the Discovery Complex and the various minations that go on there. The u the Comcast spin-off, the um he's he's really wired into what's going on and what's likely to happen from an investment point of view. >> Smart guy. Well, we're we're we I think we've sold enough puck subscriptions for now. Um let's let's let's deal with our final question, which is the same for every guest, no matter what the topic. And u if you have already said it, Mark, by all means, feel free to repeat it. The question is simple. It's for our listeners benefit. If you could give them a single takeaway, a single thought today, what would you like it to be? Never bet against the stock market because you think the world's coming to an end because it only happens once. >> Brilliant. Brilliant. Thank you for that. That is brilliant and it's perfectly true. Well, thanks for that and thanks for coming around, Mark. We always have it's always a great pleasure to talk with you. We always have a lively conversation. Um, thank you very much for that. >> Enjoyed it a lot, Corey. Thank you. See you guys in Las Vegas. Yeah, see you in Vegas. >> See you. >> Looking forward to it. >> Opinions expressed on this program are solely those of the contributor and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Stanbury Research, its parent company, or affiliates.