Interest Rates To Zero, Rents Will Double; Grant Cardone On 'Explosion' In 2026
Summary
Interest Rate Predictions: Grant Cardone predicts that interest rates will drop to zero by June next year, with mortgage rates falling below 3.5%.
Real Estate Market: Cardone anticipates a significant increase in rents over the next 15 years, suggesting a lucrative opportunity in real estate investments, particularly in commercial properties.
Bitcoin and Real Estate: Cardone is combining Bitcoin with real estate investments, creating a hybrid fund that merges the stability of real estate with the volatility of Bitcoin.
Regional Economic Shifts: Florida is experiencing positive migration due to favorable tax policies and a conservative political climate, attracting residents from high-tax states like New York and California.
Investment Strategy: Cardone emphasizes focusing on scaling wealth through business acquisitions and real estate, rather than diversifying across multiple asset classes.
Market Concerns: Despite optimism in certain sectors, Cardone expresses skepticism about overhyped markets such as AI and Bitcoin treasury companies, and highlights potential economic weaknesses globally.
Future of Housing: Cardone foresees a shift towards renting over homeownership, predicting that 60% of Americans will be renters due to lifestyle preferences and economic factors.
American Economic Policy: Cardone asserts that the U.S. government will continue to ensure consumers have enough money to pay their bills, maintaining economic stability through monetary policy.
Transcript
Okay, rates are coming down. I'll give everybody $100 if they don't come down. Interest rates will be zero by June of next year. Mortgage rates will be uh somewhere under under uh 3.5%. Rents are going to double in the next 15 years in America. They're going to go from 2 grand to 4,500 bucks a month. There's going to be a fortune made in real estate. The American government's job is to make sure the American consumer has just enough money to pay their bills. And that's never going to change. I I don't know why everybody fights this. This is very simple game. Once we get over this little gold blip that we're having right now, we're going to have an explosion in Bitcoin. >> I'm pleased to welcome back to the show Grant Cardone. He is a CEO of Cardone Capital and prominent media personality. We'll be talking about his views on Bitcoin and of course real estate, uh his bread and butter for a while, but now he's got a Bitcoin fund which he'll talk about and give us his views on the crypto markets. It's good to see you Grant. Welcome back, >> David. Always good to be with you. Always good to see you. And I know our last the last time we're together, I think it was with my brother. Right. >> That's right. You and your brother. Uh I I know I know Gary very well. Great guy. And uh it it was such a rare opportunity to have both of you together in the same interview and I co-hosted with Bonnie Blockchain. So that was a great that was a great talk. That was in Vegas. That was at the biggest Bitcoin conference in the world. Hey, how do you feel about that? I want to talk about uh real estate first, but since we're on the subject, how what was your impression of that of that event? 35,000 attendees. Um what was the sentiment like? What was the energy like? >> Yeah, look, I've never been around so many people that were so optimistic in my life. So, that was a little concerning for me because I'm not I'm not that optimist that that positive motivational. A lot of people think I'm a motivational guy, but the truth is I'm a fairly um I'm a I'm I'm a I'm a I'm a I'm a I'm a I'm a I'm a I'm a I'm a I'm a I'm bit I'm a bit of a skeptic, fairly negative human being that that is waiting for the other shoe to drop. Uh particularly when it comes to people being too excited about too many things like I worry about AI being over over, you know, overhyped right now. definitely worry about treasury companies, the Bitcoin treasury companies being overhyped. Um, and so when I was at that Bitcoin conference with you, David, it was like these were the most optimistic people in the world, bro. Like I think I think Bitcoin was trading for 90,000, 93,000 at the time, maybe. Do you remember where it was at or was it 100? >> It was over 100. It was over a hundred and year to date, Bitcoin's up about 25%. It's currently at 100. um well it's 106 now so it's down um from its highs as you know >> yeah so it's up about 6% from them but man talking to those people in that room in Vegas it was like oh my god Bitcoin is the solution to every problem on the planet from uh you know shortages of water to to housing to food shortages to vaccines all the way to uh spirituality >> okay >> it was a little overwhelming >> I want to come back to talk about bitcoins So stay tuned for this uh for this Bitcoin talk with uh with Grant. Subscribe to this channel for daily updates and follow Grant links down below. Let's talk about real estate first. Some news coming out of uh Wall Street this week. Uh some banks plunged. Regional bank stocks went down uh including Zion's Bank Corp, Jeff Western Alliance. At the center of it all, apparently uh BAT loans reported by Zion's Bank Corb Western Alliance can be traced back to the bankruptcy of a commercial real estate investment firm in Southern California earlier this year. In a lawsuit filed Wednesday, Zions listed 16 addresses of properties pledged as collateral to more than $60 million loan to Investor Group. Haven't we seen this story play out before? Yeah, you know, certainly every every 10 to 12 years when you have interest rate spikes, real estate that was, you know, funded at 3% interest rates, when interest rates hit seven, that real estate can no longer support those values. There is trillions of dollars about I've been talking about this for two years now. There's 3.7 maybe 3.8 8 trillion of debt that is hitting maturity right now and over the next 24 months that is 3% adjusted. I have some of that by the way. I have 45 different properties, 14,000 units, about $5 billion worth of real estate. We have about 180 million of that uh no maybe 240 million of that is on an adjustable David. And that means the loan matures. It was at three or three and a half and it was a three year, four year or fiveyear term with a lender. It matures and today it's at six and a half. It it it cannot support the amount of debt at 6 and a half. As as the rates go up, the amount of debt goes down proportionally. It's like a treasury, right? Treasuries go up in value. Well, the rate had to go down, right? Same thing with debt. when I borrow X at this well we're good but the moment they start moving the balances change uh and that's what's happened and that's why many regional banks in this country if they had to mark to market if they had to mark to what they actually are worth today we would find many banks in this country are in trouble not just a few >> trouble from commercial real estate or the residential side >> uh definitely commercial no you you have no problem in residential. There's zero problem in residential. There will not be a correction in residential. I've said that for years now. Single family homes don't have a problem. 70% of single family homes have a fixed rate long-term loan below 4% by the way. 70% of all loans. 50% of them are below three. So now in Vancouver you have a problem. Toronto, Calgary, in Canada, you guys can't do more than like a three-year loan. In America, we have loans. My brother, my twin brother, has 27 years left on his loan in St. Petersburg at 2.7% interest. >> Wow. >> So, he he never has to sell. And this is what people need to understand. Real estate only corrects when interest rates go up. When interest rates go up, real estate prices go down. That is the only time they ever correct. There is nothing else short of depopulation of a of a marketplace. Um, when rates go up, the value of the property goes down. Okay? Because real estate is tied to debt. the commercial real estate in in America, there's a massive opportunity to make unbelievable deals 20, 30, and 40% below replacement costs with deals, David, that were done three or five years ago. That's when they were originated. And the loan was for three or five years. It is now matured and you can buy that piece of real estate today for a discount of somewhere between 20 and 40%. >> What about government policies causing a correction? You've been very vocal on X, for example, criticizing the New York mayor's policies on housing. Tell us about that. >> Well, I mean, that would be an exodus of a population that I referred to. Zored Madami will cost the state of New York and New Yorkers a trillion dollars. Not a billion, not a hundred billion. It'll be a trillion dollar loss that will be irreversible. By the way, it'll take 25 years to fix the damage this one communist could do in a period of 18 months if he wins. So, this has happened in California, by the way, over the last many years. Um, I was actually looking at running, David, for governor of California. Uh, did quite a bit of research on it. Went there six times, did rallies up and down the state. The problem with California and New York is if the base of voters there continue to vote for these extremists, these are not democratic beliefs, by the way. These are extreme extremist left lend leading uh you know free this you know free rent >> uh yeah >> rent control no taxes uh free buses etc. When you do these things, what happens is the money starts to exit the city or state. In this case, it'll be New York City, who has been going down to Miami and Palm Beach for many, many years and Naples, Florida, to get away from the taxes, to get away first from the coal. Then once they once they got down there, their golf game improved and then they're like, "Hey, I could come down here and get a really good golf game and save 13.3% taxes." Uh, if Zar Zoran Madami the communist gets elected New York City, and I'm pulling for him, guys. I'm pulling for him. I want the communist to win New York City as mayor because if he does, my net worth will double in 18 months. >> Well, how how because you have properties outside of New York? Where are people going to go? >> I I I I own properties all across Florida. >> Okay. So, you're exist to come to Florida. All right. the the the the real the real New Yorkers are coming to Miami and Palm Beach and Naples. Um you know, the the the wannabe New Yorkers are going to stop in Raleigh and Savannah, Georgia, but the rest are coming down to Florida. >> Dogecoin's next act is officially here and it's going public. Today's sponsor of the Dogecoin Foundation's corporate arm, House of Doge, is now listed on the NASDAQ under ticker symbol TBH. And it's not just another crypto play. House of Doge is led by payments veteran Marco Margota who sold his last company for $270 million. 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I know there's there's immigration from other states that's potentially pulling capital in. What else? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's there we can't use the immigration word. There's positive migration from other states. >> Okay. All right. >> You know, because uh Dannis doesn't like the immigration word here, but uh basically we have positive migration because of blue liberal elitist. It's not even Democrat because look, Miami is a Democrat city. Okay? Palm Beach is actually a Democrat city. Fort Lauderdale is a Democrat city, but the state itself is Republican. It is conservative in nature. I mean, we do open carry here. That just got approved. David, you like you can literally put your Glock on your hip and walk into the grocery store. Um, people like that down here during COVID, we stayed open. The rest of the country closed. Uh, Ronda Santis is trying to pass no property taxes. That'll be unbelievably popular. By the way, imagine not having to pay property taxes. We don't have income taxes. We have warm weather. We have tropics down in Miami with the only subtropics until you get down to the Caribbean. Uh so there's a lot of things attracting people down here. Uh and most of it is not pro- Florida. It's basically I got to leave Chicago, Minneapolis, New York, New Jersey, and Boston because they're going crazy here. Even the Democrats are coming down here. >> Well, you've argued, going back to real estate, you've argued that in the future, more and more people will be renting more than owning. Uh, do you still hold that view? And if so, how are developers reacting? We're responding to this trend. >> But look, this is the this is the great change today, right? Um, when I was a kid growing up, I'm a little older than you. >> Uh, but when I was growing up, you know, if you were a renter, it meant that you were poorer. Today, 11% of millionaires rent. They choose to rent. Uh it's about four times greater than it was five years ago. It's it's exploding the number of people that actually choose to rent, not because of economics, but because of mobility and because of amenities. Uh we have a project right now we're finishing fundraising on uh called the 101 Meisner or 10X Meisner Bokeh property. We combined Bitcoin with that asset. It's the largest real estate purchase in Bokeh this year and the largest real estate uh Bitcoin fund ever done on the planet. The average tenant there or the average resident makes over $500,000 a year. David, they're wealthy people. Uh, half of them are from the the Northeast, by the way. They came down here from New York City. They probably lived in one of those red brick buildings that was built in 1950 with maybe a little tiny view. And they moved, they were paying $6,000 a month in New York City for 600 square feet. They moved down here. They get,00 square feet. They pay 4,500 bucks a month. They save money. They have views of the golf course, $40 million homes, and the Atlantic Ocean. And every every unit has a view. So, these people are moving down here and choosing to be renters. Then you have people your age, you know, the young the young, the alphas, the betas, the the Z's, the Gen, whatever you guys call yourself. What Gen are you? >> I I think I'm a millennial. Yeah, I'm a millennial. >> You're a millennial. So, you guys are like, I don't want to buy a house. A house is not what I want to buy. I want my I want to be able to travel. I can't afford a house maybe or I want to travel or I haven't settled into my career yet. I don't have a family yet. So, I would rather rent uh for 10 or 12 or 15 months and then figure out what I'm doing with my life. So, you have onethird of the population that's baby boomers that doesn't need to own a home, one-third that's the youth and they don't want to own. Uh and I think we have a flip model where we end up with 60% renters in America and 40% owners. Well, I think you've said before, and correct me if I'm wrong, I'm paraphrasing here. Cash is trash. Real estate is freedom. But with interest rates this high, has a game changed? >> Well, rates are coming down right now, dude. Like >> twoyear, the three-year, the 5year, and the sevenyear, and the 10-year are all hitting lows right now. I think the 10-year hit uh a low from last April. Donald Trump, and I've been saying this for a while now, he's replacing the Fed. He's gonna get his team in. He's gonna get rid of Jerome. In fact, we hadn't heard from Jerome Pal since Trump visited the White House and called him out for spending too much money on that expansion he's doing. We haven't heard from Jerome Pal in about 45 days. He He'll be gone in May. Interest rates will be zero by June of next year. That's my prediction. >> Interest rates on what exactly? >> Interest rate. >> Uh no, mortgage rates will be uh somewhere under under uh three and a half percent by by June of next year. So you think whoever pal sorry you think whoever >> we're going to get as close to zero as Trump can get them. >> Wow. What that that cliff man? >> So asset price explosion. That's what happened last time. >> Yeah. I don't think so. I don't think we necessarily have I don't think we necessarily have a an immediate asset. I think we're going to find out just how weak the planet is. I think uh China's showing tremendous weakness right now globally. Freight numbers are showing weakness. Railroads are weak. Uh, credit card delinquencies are up. Uh, home mortgage delinquency is up. Automotive is like automotive is terrible nationwide. I think inventories for automotive dealers are about five times what they were just after COVID, >> right? And the consumers spent, man, where's the money? Who's got the money? Who's got my money? Well, the the the wealthy are propping up the economy is the um is the theory I've heard. As long as stock markets and assets like Bitcoin and real estate stay high, people are feeling wealthy, they're continuing to spend money, but the you know, the middle class and the and the blue collar workers, unfortunately, maybe they're getting hit the hardest. >> That's right. >> So, there's kind of a disparity going on here. >> Yeah, I agree with that. >> Right. >> And and the and the only way to free up the housing housing is terrible. The the only people selling homes are the new home builders. It's the first time in history new home new a new home costs less than an existing home. How's that possible? And the way it's possible is because the the Dr. Hartans and the the homebuilders are basically propping up their sales with subsidized interest rates at 3%. So the homebuilders are basically saying we have a 6 and a half% interest rate. I'll buy it down to three. David, buy my house from me. I'll give you a 3% interest rate and I'll fund that for the first three years. And that's how those new homes are selling. Otherwise, homes aren't selling. So, you got to get to you got to get you got to get to a two or three or 4% interest rate on homes for homes to sell again. Is multif family still the darling of this decade and beyond. I'll give you a personal anecdote. I'm not a real estate guy. I'm not, you know, I'm not anywhere at your level. We're not in the same stratosphere. I'm just somebody who grew up in a middle class family. My mother, um, you know, she's getting old. And this is this is what she said. She said, "Maybe I'll sell my home and then I'll move into a smaller home. we'll take our gains and at least that'll that'll be enough cash for her. Um, and then my friend said, "Hey, why don't you buy her property, David, why?" And then develop it into a, you know, multif family unit, take from a single family to a multif family, you know, how would you, and I'm thinking, I don't know. Let me, let me ask Grant, what does he think? >> I like that. You know, you should turn it into a rental. Now, I don't like it because the thing I don't like about it is it doesn't scale. Like, I would rather have I'd rather see you have 16 or 32 units. Look, the number of units is the most important number in all businesses. Real estate is a business. It's either a place you live or it's a business. For me, it's a business. I have 14,200 doors. I want to get to 25,000 doors and I want to get to 50,000. Bitcoin. The most important number in Bitcoin is the number of units. It's not the price you paid. It's how many units do you have, right? So, in real estate, it's the number of doors you have. If you have one door and you can raise the rent $25, you made 25 bucks. But if you have a hundred doors and you raise the rents $25, it would appear that you have $2,500 extra a month. But in the truth, it's more than that. It's 2500 * 12 divided by 05. And the first person that gets the answer right while they're watching your show, David, I'm going to send them a $100 uh uh lunch on me. >> Figure out what that valuation was. >> Comment below. Grat's going to send you a lunch uh on him. Hey Grant, what's the best way to scale your wealth right now in 2025 and I know you know you didn't grow up last year, you grew up in a different decade and you did things differently when you were growing up and we can talk about that. But today, let's say somebody wants to scale their wealth. Do we do it in real estate? Do we do it with crypto or do we start our own business? All of the above. None of the above. >> Uh, none of the above. >> Okay. I would buy I would buy I would buy whatever you know whatever business you're in that you know I wouldn't try to scale your business by get making it better. I would scale it by buying another company like yours or even better 10 of them. There's 32 million small businesses in America that are for sale. I'm sorry. 32 million small businesses in America. A third of them 10 million are are are businesses you could buy today. You have a third about 10 or 11 million business owners today that are threatened by AI and all the technology developments including social media, okay, that are tired, exhausted, retiring. We have 10,000 people leaving the workforce on a daily basis. Many of those people own their own business today. Maybe a laundry mat, maybe they own a beauty salon. These are great businesses, by the way. AI is not going to get rid of them. Maybe it's a car wash. Okay, all these are great businesses. They're boring, but you could literally, David, you could walk over there and say, "Look, man. I noticed you own this business for 30 years. I'd like to buy your business. My business sitting for sale. I understand. Okay. How much do you make a year here? I make 250 grand a year. How about I send you 250 grand a year for the next five years? Okay. And I run the business for you. You don't have to come here anymore. You don't have to figure out social media AI. You don't have to employ people. You don't have to take on the risk, the liabilities. You're looking for somebody that's tired, though, and they're like, "Wait, wait a minute. I'm going to pay you exactly what you earn now, but I'm going to run the business. Give me the keys." And there'll be people that actually I did this I did this with a guy three and a half years ago. He had a little health business. He had 60 customers. I said, "Bro, give me the keys and I'll give you a million dollars in the future." He gave me the keys. I went from 60 customers to 250,000 customers. I bought his business I bought his business for nothing. That company will do $12 million this month. I I >> I know you've built a four to5 billion real estate business and you don't have to give the entire history of your life, but since we're talking about scaling, what are the key lessons you've learned about scaling just your business for example, real estate that you can impart with us? >> You know, don't build it, buy it. You know, let other people build stuff. Like I I don't I don't build anything. >> If I don't have the capital to buy something, should I take on debt? >> Yes. No. No. Well, you're definitely going to take on debt because this is good debt. It's the best. >> Or should I raise money? Should I raise money, get investors, or >> Yeah. What you want to do? You want to raise money. You want to raise money from other people. You want to let other people into the game. You want to democratize the fact that you're going to find the deal, fund the deal, manage the deal, take care of the tenants, the termites, the toilets, the plumbing, the roofing, collect the property taxes, the rent, take care of evictions, collect all that, distribute it to your investors. You want to democratize great real estate investments for the chiropractor, for the dentist in your town, for the brain surgeon, for the car dealer, for all these people in your town that would like to own real estate but don't have the time and the energy and maybe the uh, you know, they don't want to roll up their sleeves and do it. That's what I would do today. If I was 30 years old, I would raise money, buy real estate, and take care of my investors. So bottom line, you think rates are coming down and you think and you think real estate is residential real estate, there's no crash imminent, uh even though there's weakness in the economy. Is that right? >> Okay, rates are coming down. I'll give everybody $100 if they don't come down. Okay, everybody watching the show, just put your name. Hey, ask for your $100 down below. I'll send it to you the first time I see you. Okay. Number two, commercial real estate, particularly these large apartment complexes in the 15 in the 15 largest cities in America, okay, where there's positive migration and there's reasonable politicians and regulations are going to explode. Rents are going to double in the next 15 years in America. They're going to go from two grand to 4,500 bucks a month. There's going to be a fortune made in real estate. How's the average person going to How I'm sorry to interrupt. How's the average person going to gonna going to be able to afford that? >> Because we're going to continue we're going to continue to print money, man. >> Yeah. All right. >> There's plenty of money. There's no shortage of money. There's more money than there is real estate. >> I get that. Sorry. >> The American consumer the American consumer will always have enough money will always be provided with just enough money to pay their bills. Mhm. >> The American government's job is to make sure the American consumer, the population of America, has just enough money to pay their bills. And that's never going to change. I I don't know why everybody fights this. This is very simple game. You don't have to study calls and options and puts or the exchange. The US government will print enough money. By the way, all countries do this. will print just enough money for the American consumer, the spectator, the victim. I hate to use these words, but this is what this is. If you're going to sit by and be a consumer, you are a victim of a great economy. The greatest economy in the world is the one you participate in, not the one you consume in. >> What is the American dream today, Grant? If it's not owning homes, because you said most people in the future are probably going to be renting, what's the American dream? Well, for me, for me it's different for everybody, David, you know. So, for me, it's freedom, man. I want to be able to I want to be able to tell people that I want to be able to give people a middle finger if I have to, you know. I don't know if you could put that on your show or not, but I want to be able to walk >> Well, I want to be able to walk away from you if I don't want to do business with you. I want to be able to I want to be able to return somebody's money. I want to be able to say, "Here's your money. I don't want your money, dude. I want you off my list. I do not want to do business with you." You know, the last job that I walked away from, I was 28 years old. 20. Yeah. 28 years old. And the guy told me I was the number one producer in his company. I outproduced everybody in the company. I was a diva. I was a Tom Brady. I admitted I was a David Lynn. I was one of the greats. Okay. And I said, >> too much credit, man. >> I said to the employer, I said, he says, "Mind your own business, Grant." I said, "Okay, I will." and I walked across the street, boxed up all my and left the company. >> Okay, so the last time I worked for anyone, his company folded nine months later because he lost my production. Freedom for me is the ability to walk away and still take care of my family. Not quit. Because if you quit and you can't take care of your family, that was stupid. Okay. I want to be able to walk away from business, walk away from problems, walk away from the government. I need a couple of passports, a private jet, maybe I need a boat one day, and go do what I want, where I want, when I want. That's freedom. And that may or may not include America, by the way. >> I understand. Um, >> I had to leave I had to leave California to get free. >> Well, where would you go if you weren't in the US? >> Well, I would hope there would be other choices. I could go to Singapore. I could go to Dubai. You know, I know this. I need to bring my hustle with me. I need to pack my hustle, not my clothes. >> Let's brush this to crypto. Uh, would you ever consider tokenizing some of your real estate empire, putting it on the blockchain? >> I would, but it's not necessary. >> Okay. >> It's just not necessary. You get you got let's say you have a you know, you you've got a couple of commercial properties and you want investors. Well, at least people come to you and say, "Hey, I want to invest in your properties, Grant." And then well, you can't do that because you're not a private equity firm, but if you put that in the blockchain, if you tokenize a real world asset, which is the trend now. Um, you could potentially get thousands of people giving you money for your for your properties. >> I like that. I like that idea. But what we did was we figured out how to do that without putting it on the blockchain. >> Oh, yeah. >> So, we've done we've done $1.2 billion worth of real estate transactions this year and added almost $200 million of Bitcoin to that. We merged the two together in LLC. Uh we're doing a project right now, $230 million of real estate, $und00 million of Bitcoin, the largest real estate Bitcoin hybrid fund ever put together. One fund, one asset with Bitcoin, 230 of real estate, Boca Raton, Maine and Maine. Perfect real estate to do this with. We bought the real estate below replacement cost and then added Bitcoin to get us back to the replacement cost of the asset. Okay, the replacement cost on the asset was 340. So, we bought the real estate for 240, added a 100 million of Bitcoin, merged the two together, and allowed a couple hundred people to invest with us. We're going to take that entity, David, rather than putting it on the blockchain, we're going to convert it into shares and a publicly traded company and launch it here in December of this year. Well, let's talk about the let's talk about the Bitcoin. Yeah. So, you're going you're going public with this fund. Let's talk about the Bitcoin side. Was it your brother who talked you into getting Bitcoin, by the way? Was it Was it Was it Gary? >> Yeah. Well, you know, everybody wants to take credit for everything I I've done in my life. I want to give my brother credit right now for a big meeting that we did with Mike Sailor uh last year. Late last year, he got a meeting. Uh Gary's been a a big inspiration to me in in in what's going on in Bitcoin. Um, and you know, and and getting an education as well as a whole lot of other people in the Bitcoin spaces on X that have for the last three or four years I've been self-educating on Bitcoin and what it would do to how I could use Bitcoin to enhance our real estate portfolio. >> Right. And you actually bought more Bitcoin last week, I think, on the dip. >> I bought more yesterday. I bought more yesterday. >> Bought more yesterday. I bought I bought I bought 200 more pieces yesterday and I bought 300 last Friday. >> You're not you're not concerned about the volatility every time Trump announces a new tariff, which is what happened last week. Uh Bitcoin, here's a stat. Bitcoin by market cap lost more than the entire stock market capitalization loss during the 1929 crash. I know it was a different time. And just to put things in perspective, even though it was the single biggest day uh liquidation event for all of Bitcoin, all of crypto rather, Bitcoin only dropped about 15%. Uh which was not a significant number for for Bitcoin if you compare it to what it's done in the past. But you're not you're not concerned about this volatility. You're not concerned about, you know, huge swings to the downside or upside um at an uncertain time? >> No, not at all. because I'm combining it with real estate that has no volatility. >> Yeah. >> I'm taking the the lowest sharp score of any investment platform in the world for the last 2,000 years called real estate. It's like this the whole time. Just ding ding ding ding cash flow cash flow. It's very stable, very consistent, very difficult to replace. And I'm adding a the most volatile on top of that. Combining the two together, I have a like a super superhero action. Like I have something very stable and something volatile. I have something real and something digital. I have something that cash flows, something that doesn't. Something that something that comes with a great tax write off and one that doesn't. One that has no use except the preservation of capital and protection against um printing. And I have real estate that has a practical use. You have to live somewhere. Unfortunately, to the maximalists, you cannot live in your Bitcoin. Okay? I still need a place to live. So, when you combine these two, I think I'm going to create uh the well, our goal is to create the largest real estate Bitcoin fund on the planet that is going to disrupt the reed industry, David, that's $4 trillion and hasn't changed in 65 years. >> And so, when you accumulate all these bitcoins, what's your end goal here? Are you just going to are you going to turn into a treasury company, which is what you criticized earlier in the interview, or are you going to use it to buy real estate? >> Well, what what I criticized earlier, I didn't fully criticize, but the the the issue is not the treasury company is the problem. The issue is there's no company, there's no products, there's no services, there's no accounts receivables, there's no recurring revenue, there's no residual, there's no goodwill. Like, where's the company, dude? Everybody's trying to copy Sailor, but the truth is Sailor had $75 million of Ibida. He had customers. He had software. He has accounts receivables. He had employees. He had he had something happening already. >> What we're doing with the real estate is we're building a treasury, publicly traded company that will have Bitcoin on his treasury, but we have a real asset that people live in. We're collecting. Real estate is a fiat production machine. Okay, people come in, they live there, they have to have a place to live. They give us $4,500 for their rent. Some portion of that $4,500 hits the bottom line. That bottom line, the cash flow on 366 units or 14,000 units. The cash flow, in our case, this will be about $125 million a year of free cash flow. 10 million a month, they'll be buying more Bitcoin every month. So, the difference is we have a publicly traded company with Bitcoin on our treasury. Okay? Within six months of going public, we'll have a billion uh we'll have $2.5 billion dollars of real estate, $2.5 billion worth of Bitcoin, $200 million worth of Ebida. Okay? This isn't an empty treasury company with no product and no services. We'll have 30,000 people paying us every month for parking to live someplace. and we have the appreciation long-term, David, if we picked a great asset in a great location of the the real estate going up. So hopefully I got two things going up. >> Well, this sounds similar. Correct me if I'm correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds similar to what the Trump family is doing. They started off in the real estate business. Uh they've diversified into digital assets. They're now top 10 Bitcoin holders in the world. >> Yeah. >> Is that kind of what you aspire to to follow? Is that similar road path here? Well, I look, I I I'm not a Trump. I can't be a Trump. So, I gotta be a Cardone. I'm gonna have to just accept being who I am. I mean, I love the Trump family. I love what they've done. Um, I'm going to have my focus on one thing. I know I know they have their their focus is on a lot of things. Uh, big fan of theirs, by the way, but I'm going to have my attention on one thing. Building the largest real estate, >> trophy real estate and Bitcoin fund in the world. >> Okay. And going back to And I'm not going to be running for president, so I don't have that I don't have that conflict. >> Well, Trump said that 40 years ago, so who knows? Uh, what Grant, are you going to be doing anything with the Bitcoin, though? I mean, are you going to be using it as collateral for more real estate? Are you going to be buying stuff with it? Yeah, >> of course. Of course. Just Just like we refinance our real estate every 5 to seven years, we will use uh we will use Bitcoin as we see fit to borrow against it and to buy either more Bitcoin or more trophy real estate. What would prompt you hypothetically to sell bitcoins? All or some of it? >> I mean, if it went to a million dollars today, >> I would probably I would probably not sell it. You know, I know what we have on our balance sheet right now, but I would borrow against it. I'd borrow 20% of it. I'd borrow 20% either buy more Bitcoin or buy more trophy real estate, whichever I can get get the biggest discount on. Right now, I can buy trophy real estate, okay, in the best locations in the country, maybe the planet, for onethird below what it costs to build. That means if you build it for 300 million, I'm paying 200 million for it. That means I'm $100 million in the money the day I buy it. So, I can combine that. I can steal that piece of real estate as I have for 30 years now. This is what I've done for 30 years is steal real estate and keep it for long periods of time. Or I could steal great real estate that cash flows day one, stack Bitcoin on top of it, put the two together, allow my investors to benefit from not one but both. An old world asset, >> it's 2,000 years old. Everybody understands real estate. And this new world asset that's 16 years old, really a virgin, >> Bitcoin, that has the potential to be one of the largest asset classes in the world because it's digital. What do you think happens to Bitcoin's price when the interest rate goes to near zero, like you said earlier? >> Well, I think once we get over this little gold blip that we're having right now, we're going to have an explosion in Bitcoin. >> All right. To sum up, somebody somebody's looking at you, Grant, and saying, "Hey, look, I've got I've got some money right now in the bank. Um, this gold this gold thing is going out of control. It's $4,300 now. silver's all-time highs. My friends are asking me personally, should I FOMO into this? No, they're not they're not saying like that. They're asking me a different way. Yeah. But at the same time, you've got everything else going up. How do I I'm not asking you to tell us what to buy. I'm asking you to tell us how do I think about what's happening in the world right now. We've got political uncertainty or geopolitical uncertainty. Interest rates potentially coming down in the future. We've got all these things moving parabolically in the same direction. Uh real estate, like you said, is doing just fine. What do I do? How do I think about what do I do with my wealth? >> Look, I you know, it it's best for me to ignore most of what's going on in the world, the macro world. It's never benefited me in my career to get all distracted by all the hoopla of the world. Uh I would tell people number one, focus on yourself, okay? Make yourself better. Whatever you're doing, make yourself better at it. Like if you don't become a master of what you do, you're going to be underpaid. Number two, invest in your business first and yourself first. There is no company, no business, no investment, no piece of real estate, no Bitcoin, no gold, not an oracle investment or an Apple even at the perfect time that is going to make you more money in your lifetime than you and your business. And the third thing I would do is I'd find one thing to invest in, one thing outside of you and your business to invest in, and only one thing. I would not even look for two things. I would look for one thing where you could go all in. Whatever that one thing is, I don't know what it is for you. And I would find that one thing and I'd go I I would go all in. Everything I have, I would borrow to do it. Um I would wake up I I want it to be something that I would like wake up every morning and say, "I'm putting every piece of fiat I can into this." And and that's what I'm doing, David. Like I found one one vertical that I can drop hard on which is real estate for me and then I figured out a way to add to the real estate to make it better by adding the Bitcoin and I'm going to take that public and I'm going to share that vehicle which has never been done before by the way. There's a brand new product in the marketplace. The real estate industry has not trade a change in over 65 years since REITs were introduced in 1960. That's a $4 trillion industry now called the reed industry. I'm going to destroy it with this new product uh putting together real estate and Bitcoin. And I'm going to go singly focus. I'm going to miss gold. I'm going to miss Nvidia. I'm going to miss the AI. I'm going to miss a lot of things. Okay. But it's like being married. Okay. I might miss a whole bunch of stuff, but I'm happily married. >> You've got the uh the 10X Wealth Conference coming up in Miami. Tell us about that before we go. Let me just show this my screen here. Bunch of heavyweights attending this year. I mean, you usually do. What's the theme this year? You've got Gary Con going. Bob Dugen, um, Adam Kobes I've interviewed several times. >> Yeah. Money, finance, business, how to scale, how to invest. We're going to have some speakers come in talking about family offices, what the wealthy are doing. Uh, what are the hacks? This is what I always wanted access to, David. So, like everything else I do in my life, I democratize what I'm learning. Uh, we do events. We do about four events a year where we bring in the heavyweights of the heavyweights of money and finance. Uh, Marty, Marty Bnel and his team's going to be there. They they have about $580 billion of assets in a family office under management. And we're going to they're going to be kind of showing us behind the scenes at what the wealthy are doing for tax strategies and wealth preservation. You've spoken to a lot of I mean just on this front page you you've got Kevin Olirri there, Kathy Woods was there. You know, you've spoken to a lot of really successful business people, investors. What are these top 1% of the 1% of investors and business people doing that the regular person isn't? How are they how do they get there? >> Well, the thing that I have found that that most of these people have in common, if we were looking for one commonality, >> yeah, >> they do not diversify. This whole 6040 thing is not how they get rich. Getting rich is one thing. You know, once you're rich, doing what you're doing then later is something else. But most of these people are very very focused. >> They are not invested. You know, if you look at Steve Jobs, Steve Jobs had two investments his whole life. Most people don't know that he had Apple and Pixel uh what was it? Uh Pixar. Both both, by the way, he was involved in. Elon Musk, richest man in the world, he has six investments, all of which he has invested in himself. So uh you know Warren Buffett made all his money in one investment. Then then he went to a second one he was forced to by law but most of most of his wealth was concentrated in a handful of things. So that's what I would tell people is like if you study the wealthy, look at where they how they got wealthy, not what what they did once they were wealthy. And that's what I'll be interviewing these people about. It's like, tell me how you got there. Don't tell me what you did once you got there. I want to know how you got there. >> I don't need another rich person telling me that money won't make you happy and that I'm no happier. Guy's worth 12 billion. He says I'm no happier than when I was poor. I'm like, "Yeah, what's the point, bro?" Like, you're rich. >> You can't even remember when you were poor, man. >> Do you feel hap Okay, let me answer this question. >> Yeah. >> Do you feel happier now than you did when you were still at your last job? >> 100%. What are you talking about? >> Wait a minute. You have a family. You've got a beautiful daughter. You've got all these other things you didn't have. Let's just take those things out of the equation, >> right? You can't you can't take that away from it. But but no, dude. Dude, I'd rather have the money. Are you kidding me? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Somebody said money money won't make you happy. I'm like, what's what's the point? Would you rather be miserable and rich or miserable and poor? >> Fair. >> Give me that money, dog. Give me that money. >> It was It's actually a scientific study. Money may not make you marginally happier, but it's proven that poverty makes you depressed. >> Totally, bro. And by the way, if if you have poverty and you're you're happy, you you're you're broke and delusional because you should not be happy. If you're broke, you should be scared. Okay, this is the problem, David, with the middle class. I grew up in the middle class. I grew up voting Democratic, by the way. And the problem with the middle class is you're always worried about money. You can't truly be happy, really happy, genuinely sincerely happy, if you're constantly every 15 days worried about how am I going to pay the bills next month. And that's how I spent the first 30 years of my life. Now, I still worry about things. I still have concerns, but I don't have this constant plague about how am I going to pay the rent? And by the way, I remember growing up worried about how we were going to pay the rent. >> Well, uh, look at you now. Thanks, Grant. We'll, uh, we'll we'll we'll catch up another time. Where can we follow you? Where can we, uh, learn from you? >> Just Google search Grant Cardone, and I'll find you. I'll find you. >> Don't forget to comment down below. Uh, and if Grant's wrong about the interest rate, he'll give you $100. That's what he promised. That's right. >> All right. Thanks, Grant. I'll see you next time. >> Thanks, David.
Interest Rates To Zero, Rents Will Double; Grant Cardone On 'Explosion' In 2026
Summary
Transcript
Okay, rates are coming down. I'll give everybody $100 if they don't come down. Interest rates will be zero by June of next year. Mortgage rates will be uh somewhere under under uh 3.5%. Rents are going to double in the next 15 years in America. They're going to go from 2 grand to 4,500 bucks a month. There's going to be a fortune made in real estate. The American government's job is to make sure the American consumer has just enough money to pay their bills. And that's never going to change. I I don't know why everybody fights this. This is very simple game. Once we get over this little gold blip that we're having right now, we're going to have an explosion in Bitcoin. >> I'm pleased to welcome back to the show Grant Cardone. He is a CEO of Cardone Capital and prominent media personality. We'll be talking about his views on Bitcoin and of course real estate, uh his bread and butter for a while, but now he's got a Bitcoin fund which he'll talk about and give us his views on the crypto markets. It's good to see you Grant. Welcome back, >> David. Always good to be with you. Always good to see you. And I know our last the last time we're together, I think it was with my brother. Right. >> That's right. You and your brother. Uh I I know I know Gary very well. Great guy. And uh it it was such a rare opportunity to have both of you together in the same interview and I co-hosted with Bonnie Blockchain. So that was a great that was a great talk. That was in Vegas. That was at the biggest Bitcoin conference in the world. Hey, how do you feel about that? I want to talk about uh real estate first, but since we're on the subject, how what was your impression of that of that event? 35,000 attendees. Um what was the sentiment like? What was the energy like? >> Yeah, look, I've never been around so many people that were so optimistic in my life. So, that was a little concerning for me because I'm not I'm not that optimist that that positive motivational. A lot of people think I'm a motivational guy, but the truth is I'm a fairly um I'm a I'm I'm a I'm a I'm a I'm a I'm a I'm a I'm a I'm a I'm a I'm a I'm bit I'm a bit of a skeptic, fairly negative human being that that is waiting for the other shoe to drop. Uh particularly when it comes to people being too excited about too many things like I worry about AI being over over, you know, overhyped right now. definitely worry about treasury companies, the Bitcoin treasury companies being overhyped. Um, and so when I was at that Bitcoin conference with you, David, it was like these were the most optimistic people in the world, bro. Like I think I think Bitcoin was trading for 90,000, 93,000 at the time, maybe. Do you remember where it was at or was it 100? >> It was over 100. It was over a hundred and year to date, Bitcoin's up about 25%. It's currently at 100. um well it's 106 now so it's down um from its highs as you know >> yeah so it's up about 6% from them but man talking to those people in that room in Vegas it was like oh my god Bitcoin is the solution to every problem on the planet from uh you know shortages of water to to housing to food shortages to vaccines all the way to uh spirituality >> okay >> it was a little overwhelming >> I want to come back to talk about bitcoins So stay tuned for this uh for this Bitcoin talk with uh with Grant. Subscribe to this channel for daily updates and follow Grant links down below. Let's talk about real estate first. Some news coming out of uh Wall Street this week. Uh some banks plunged. Regional bank stocks went down uh including Zion's Bank Corp, Jeff Western Alliance. At the center of it all, apparently uh BAT loans reported by Zion's Bank Corb Western Alliance can be traced back to the bankruptcy of a commercial real estate investment firm in Southern California earlier this year. In a lawsuit filed Wednesday, Zions listed 16 addresses of properties pledged as collateral to more than $60 million loan to Investor Group. Haven't we seen this story play out before? Yeah, you know, certainly every every 10 to 12 years when you have interest rate spikes, real estate that was, you know, funded at 3% interest rates, when interest rates hit seven, that real estate can no longer support those values. There is trillions of dollars about I've been talking about this for two years now. There's 3.7 maybe 3.8 8 trillion of debt that is hitting maturity right now and over the next 24 months that is 3% adjusted. I have some of that by the way. I have 45 different properties, 14,000 units, about $5 billion worth of real estate. We have about 180 million of that uh no maybe 240 million of that is on an adjustable David. And that means the loan matures. It was at three or three and a half and it was a three year, four year or fiveyear term with a lender. It matures and today it's at six and a half. It it it cannot support the amount of debt at 6 and a half. As as the rates go up, the amount of debt goes down proportionally. It's like a treasury, right? Treasuries go up in value. Well, the rate had to go down, right? Same thing with debt. when I borrow X at this well we're good but the moment they start moving the balances change uh and that's what's happened and that's why many regional banks in this country if they had to mark to market if they had to mark to what they actually are worth today we would find many banks in this country are in trouble not just a few >> trouble from commercial real estate or the residential side >> uh definitely commercial no you you have no problem in residential. There's zero problem in residential. There will not be a correction in residential. I've said that for years now. Single family homes don't have a problem. 70% of single family homes have a fixed rate long-term loan below 4% by the way. 70% of all loans. 50% of them are below three. So now in Vancouver you have a problem. Toronto, Calgary, in Canada, you guys can't do more than like a three-year loan. In America, we have loans. My brother, my twin brother, has 27 years left on his loan in St. Petersburg at 2.7% interest. >> Wow. >> So, he he never has to sell. And this is what people need to understand. Real estate only corrects when interest rates go up. When interest rates go up, real estate prices go down. That is the only time they ever correct. There is nothing else short of depopulation of a of a marketplace. Um, when rates go up, the value of the property goes down. Okay? Because real estate is tied to debt. the commercial real estate in in America, there's a massive opportunity to make unbelievable deals 20, 30, and 40% below replacement costs with deals, David, that were done three or five years ago. That's when they were originated. And the loan was for three or five years. It is now matured and you can buy that piece of real estate today for a discount of somewhere between 20 and 40%. >> What about government policies causing a correction? You've been very vocal on X, for example, criticizing the New York mayor's policies on housing. Tell us about that. >> Well, I mean, that would be an exodus of a population that I referred to. Zored Madami will cost the state of New York and New Yorkers a trillion dollars. Not a billion, not a hundred billion. It'll be a trillion dollar loss that will be irreversible. By the way, it'll take 25 years to fix the damage this one communist could do in a period of 18 months if he wins. So, this has happened in California, by the way, over the last many years. Um, I was actually looking at running, David, for governor of California. Uh, did quite a bit of research on it. Went there six times, did rallies up and down the state. The problem with California and New York is if the base of voters there continue to vote for these extremists, these are not democratic beliefs, by the way. These are extreme extremist left lend leading uh you know free this you know free rent >> uh yeah >> rent control no taxes uh free buses etc. When you do these things, what happens is the money starts to exit the city or state. In this case, it'll be New York City, who has been going down to Miami and Palm Beach for many, many years and Naples, Florida, to get away from the taxes, to get away first from the coal. Then once they once they got down there, their golf game improved and then they're like, "Hey, I could come down here and get a really good golf game and save 13.3% taxes." Uh, if Zar Zoran Madami the communist gets elected New York City, and I'm pulling for him, guys. I'm pulling for him. I want the communist to win New York City as mayor because if he does, my net worth will double in 18 months. >> Well, how how because you have properties outside of New York? Where are people going to go? >> I I I I own properties all across Florida. >> Okay. So, you're exist to come to Florida. All right. the the the the real the real New Yorkers are coming to Miami and Palm Beach and Naples. Um you know, the the the wannabe New Yorkers are going to stop in Raleigh and Savannah, Georgia, but the rest are coming down to Florida. >> Dogecoin's next act is officially here and it's going public. Today's sponsor of the Dogecoin Foundation's corporate arm, House of Doge, is now listed on the NASDAQ under ticker symbol TBH. And it's not just another crypto play. House of Doge is led by payments veteran Marco Margota who sold his last company for $270 million. Backed by firms like Citadel, Mosaic, and Panta. And with partnerships like Robin Hood and 21 Shares, they're helping take Dogecoin into mainstream finance. This isn't Dogecoin as a meme anymore. It's Dogecoin is money. House of Doge is building payment rails, ETFs, and yield products that make Dogecoin usable across sports, universities, and retailers. Their treasury partner, Clean Core, ticker Zone, Zo NE, holds over 700 million Dogecoin, and it's building the official Dogecoin treasury. Owning TBH and Zone, isn't just owning Dogecoin, it's owning the infrastructure powering its next era. Click the link down below or scan the QR code here to learn more. I was talking to an economist from Moody's and he said that there's 22 states in the US that's already in a recession. We're tipping into a recession. Uh, and there's also a few states that are propping up the economy. Florida is one of them along with alongside Texas. What is Florida doing that other states aren't? I know there's there's immigration from other states that's potentially pulling capital in. What else? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's there we can't use the immigration word. There's positive migration from other states. >> Okay. All right. >> You know, because uh Dannis doesn't like the immigration word here, but uh basically we have positive migration because of blue liberal elitist. It's not even Democrat because look, Miami is a Democrat city. Okay? Palm Beach is actually a Democrat city. Fort Lauderdale is a Democrat city, but the state itself is Republican. It is conservative in nature. I mean, we do open carry here. That just got approved. David, you like you can literally put your Glock on your hip and walk into the grocery store. Um, people like that down here during COVID, we stayed open. The rest of the country closed. Uh, Ronda Santis is trying to pass no property taxes. That'll be unbelievably popular. By the way, imagine not having to pay property taxes. We don't have income taxes. We have warm weather. We have tropics down in Miami with the only subtropics until you get down to the Caribbean. Uh so there's a lot of things attracting people down here. Uh and most of it is not pro- Florida. It's basically I got to leave Chicago, Minneapolis, New York, New Jersey, and Boston because they're going crazy here. Even the Democrats are coming down here. >> Well, you've argued, going back to real estate, you've argued that in the future, more and more people will be renting more than owning. Uh, do you still hold that view? And if so, how are developers reacting? We're responding to this trend. >> But look, this is the this is the great change today, right? Um, when I was a kid growing up, I'm a little older than you. >> Uh, but when I was growing up, you know, if you were a renter, it meant that you were poorer. Today, 11% of millionaires rent. They choose to rent. Uh it's about four times greater than it was five years ago. It's it's exploding the number of people that actually choose to rent, not because of economics, but because of mobility and because of amenities. Uh we have a project right now we're finishing fundraising on uh called the 101 Meisner or 10X Meisner Bokeh property. We combined Bitcoin with that asset. It's the largest real estate purchase in Bokeh this year and the largest real estate uh Bitcoin fund ever done on the planet. The average tenant there or the average resident makes over $500,000 a year. David, they're wealthy people. Uh, half of them are from the the Northeast, by the way. They came down here from New York City. They probably lived in one of those red brick buildings that was built in 1950 with maybe a little tiny view. And they moved, they were paying $6,000 a month in New York City for 600 square feet. They moved down here. They get,00 square feet. They pay 4,500 bucks a month. They save money. They have views of the golf course, $40 million homes, and the Atlantic Ocean. And every every unit has a view. So, these people are moving down here and choosing to be renters. Then you have people your age, you know, the young the young, the alphas, the betas, the the Z's, the Gen, whatever you guys call yourself. What Gen are you? >> I I think I'm a millennial. Yeah, I'm a millennial. >> You're a millennial. So, you guys are like, I don't want to buy a house. A house is not what I want to buy. I want my I want to be able to travel. I can't afford a house maybe or I want to travel or I haven't settled into my career yet. I don't have a family yet. So, I would rather rent uh for 10 or 12 or 15 months and then figure out what I'm doing with my life. So, you have onethird of the population that's baby boomers that doesn't need to own a home, one-third that's the youth and they don't want to own. Uh and I think we have a flip model where we end up with 60% renters in America and 40% owners. Well, I think you've said before, and correct me if I'm wrong, I'm paraphrasing here. Cash is trash. Real estate is freedom. But with interest rates this high, has a game changed? >> Well, rates are coming down right now, dude. Like >> twoyear, the three-year, the 5year, and the sevenyear, and the 10-year are all hitting lows right now. I think the 10-year hit uh a low from last April. Donald Trump, and I've been saying this for a while now, he's replacing the Fed. He's gonna get his team in. He's gonna get rid of Jerome. In fact, we hadn't heard from Jerome Pal since Trump visited the White House and called him out for spending too much money on that expansion he's doing. We haven't heard from Jerome Pal in about 45 days. He He'll be gone in May. Interest rates will be zero by June of next year. That's my prediction. >> Interest rates on what exactly? >> Interest rate. >> Uh no, mortgage rates will be uh somewhere under under uh three and a half percent by by June of next year. So you think whoever pal sorry you think whoever >> we're going to get as close to zero as Trump can get them. >> Wow. What that that cliff man? >> So asset price explosion. That's what happened last time. >> Yeah. I don't think so. I don't think we necessarily have I don't think we necessarily have a an immediate asset. I think we're going to find out just how weak the planet is. I think uh China's showing tremendous weakness right now globally. Freight numbers are showing weakness. Railroads are weak. Uh, credit card delinquencies are up. Uh, home mortgage delinquency is up. Automotive is like automotive is terrible nationwide. I think inventories for automotive dealers are about five times what they were just after COVID, >> right? And the consumers spent, man, where's the money? Who's got the money? Who's got my money? Well, the the the wealthy are propping up the economy is the um is the theory I've heard. As long as stock markets and assets like Bitcoin and real estate stay high, people are feeling wealthy, they're continuing to spend money, but the you know, the middle class and the and the blue collar workers, unfortunately, maybe they're getting hit the hardest. >> That's right. >> So, there's kind of a disparity going on here. >> Yeah, I agree with that. >> Right. >> And and the and the only way to free up the housing housing is terrible. The the only people selling homes are the new home builders. It's the first time in history new home new a new home costs less than an existing home. How's that possible? And the way it's possible is because the the Dr. Hartans and the the homebuilders are basically propping up their sales with subsidized interest rates at 3%. So the homebuilders are basically saying we have a 6 and a half% interest rate. I'll buy it down to three. David, buy my house from me. I'll give you a 3% interest rate and I'll fund that for the first three years. And that's how those new homes are selling. Otherwise, homes aren't selling. So, you got to get to you got to get you got to get to a two or three or 4% interest rate on homes for homes to sell again. Is multif family still the darling of this decade and beyond. I'll give you a personal anecdote. I'm not a real estate guy. I'm not, you know, I'm not anywhere at your level. We're not in the same stratosphere. I'm just somebody who grew up in a middle class family. My mother, um, you know, she's getting old. And this is this is what she said. She said, "Maybe I'll sell my home and then I'll move into a smaller home. we'll take our gains and at least that'll that'll be enough cash for her. Um, and then my friend said, "Hey, why don't you buy her property, David, why?" And then develop it into a, you know, multif family unit, take from a single family to a multif family, you know, how would you, and I'm thinking, I don't know. Let me, let me ask Grant, what does he think? >> I like that. You know, you should turn it into a rental. Now, I don't like it because the thing I don't like about it is it doesn't scale. Like, I would rather have I'd rather see you have 16 or 32 units. Look, the number of units is the most important number in all businesses. Real estate is a business. It's either a place you live or it's a business. For me, it's a business. I have 14,200 doors. I want to get to 25,000 doors and I want to get to 50,000. Bitcoin. The most important number in Bitcoin is the number of units. It's not the price you paid. It's how many units do you have, right? So, in real estate, it's the number of doors you have. If you have one door and you can raise the rent $25, you made 25 bucks. But if you have a hundred doors and you raise the rents $25, it would appear that you have $2,500 extra a month. But in the truth, it's more than that. It's 2500 * 12 divided by 05. And the first person that gets the answer right while they're watching your show, David, I'm going to send them a $100 uh uh lunch on me. >> Figure out what that valuation was. >> Comment below. Grat's going to send you a lunch uh on him. Hey Grant, what's the best way to scale your wealth right now in 2025 and I know you know you didn't grow up last year, you grew up in a different decade and you did things differently when you were growing up and we can talk about that. But today, let's say somebody wants to scale their wealth. Do we do it in real estate? Do we do it with crypto or do we start our own business? All of the above. None of the above. >> Uh, none of the above. >> Okay. I would buy I would buy I would buy whatever you know whatever business you're in that you know I wouldn't try to scale your business by get making it better. I would scale it by buying another company like yours or even better 10 of them. There's 32 million small businesses in America that are for sale. I'm sorry. 32 million small businesses in America. A third of them 10 million are are are businesses you could buy today. You have a third about 10 or 11 million business owners today that are threatened by AI and all the technology developments including social media, okay, that are tired, exhausted, retiring. We have 10,000 people leaving the workforce on a daily basis. Many of those people own their own business today. Maybe a laundry mat, maybe they own a beauty salon. These are great businesses, by the way. AI is not going to get rid of them. Maybe it's a car wash. Okay, all these are great businesses. They're boring, but you could literally, David, you could walk over there and say, "Look, man. I noticed you own this business for 30 years. I'd like to buy your business. My business sitting for sale. I understand. Okay. How much do you make a year here? I make 250 grand a year. How about I send you 250 grand a year for the next five years? Okay. And I run the business for you. You don't have to come here anymore. You don't have to figure out social media AI. You don't have to employ people. You don't have to take on the risk, the liabilities. You're looking for somebody that's tired, though, and they're like, "Wait, wait a minute. I'm going to pay you exactly what you earn now, but I'm going to run the business. Give me the keys." And there'll be people that actually I did this I did this with a guy three and a half years ago. He had a little health business. He had 60 customers. I said, "Bro, give me the keys and I'll give you a million dollars in the future." He gave me the keys. I went from 60 customers to 250,000 customers. I bought his business I bought his business for nothing. That company will do $12 million this month. I I >> I know you've built a four to5 billion real estate business and you don't have to give the entire history of your life, but since we're talking about scaling, what are the key lessons you've learned about scaling just your business for example, real estate that you can impart with us? >> You know, don't build it, buy it. You know, let other people build stuff. Like I I don't I don't build anything. >> If I don't have the capital to buy something, should I take on debt? >> Yes. No. No. Well, you're definitely going to take on debt because this is good debt. It's the best. >> Or should I raise money? Should I raise money, get investors, or >> Yeah. What you want to do? You want to raise money. You want to raise money from other people. You want to let other people into the game. You want to democratize the fact that you're going to find the deal, fund the deal, manage the deal, take care of the tenants, the termites, the toilets, the plumbing, the roofing, collect the property taxes, the rent, take care of evictions, collect all that, distribute it to your investors. You want to democratize great real estate investments for the chiropractor, for the dentist in your town, for the brain surgeon, for the car dealer, for all these people in your town that would like to own real estate but don't have the time and the energy and maybe the uh, you know, they don't want to roll up their sleeves and do it. That's what I would do today. If I was 30 years old, I would raise money, buy real estate, and take care of my investors. So bottom line, you think rates are coming down and you think and you think real estate is residential real estate, there's no crash imminent, uh even though there's weakness in the economy. Is that right? >> Okay, rates are coming down. I'll give everybody $100 if they don't come down. Okay, everybody watching the show, just put your name. Hey, ask for your $100 down below. I'll send it to you the first time I see you. Okay. Number two, commercial real estate, particularly these large apartment complexes in the 15 in the 15 largest cities in America, okay, where there's positive migration and there's reasonable politicians and regulations are going to explode. Rents are going to double in the next 15 years in America. They're going to go from two grand to 4,500 bucks a month. There's going to be a fortune made in real estate. How's the average person going to How I'm sorry to interrupt. How's the average person going to gonna going to be able to afford that? >> Because we're going to continue we're going to continue to print money, man. >> Yeah. All right. >> There's plenty of money. There's no shortage of money. There's more money than there is real estate. >> I get that. Sorry. >> The American consumer the American consumer will always have enough money will always be provided with just enough money to pay their bills. Mhm. >> The American government's job is to make sure the American consumer, the population of America, has just enough money to pay their bills. And that's never going to change. I I don't know why everybody fights this. This is very simple game. You don't have to study calls and options and puts or the exchange. The US government will print enough money. By the way, all countries do this. will print just enough money for the American consumer, the spectator, the victim. I hate to use these words, but this is what this is. If you're going to sit by and be a consumer, you are a victim of a great economy. The greatest economy in the world is the one you participate in, not the one you consume in. >> What is the American dream today, Grant? If it's not owning homes, because you said most people in the future are probably going to be renting, what's the American dream? Well, for me, for me it's different for everybody, David, you know. So, for me, it's freedom, man. I want to be able to I want to be able to tell people that I want to be able to give people a middle finger if I have to, you know. I don't know if you could put that on your show or not, but I want to be able to walk >> Well, I want to be able to walk away from you if I don't want to do business with you. I want to be able to I want to be able to return somebody's money. I want to be able to say, "Here's your money. I don't want your money, dude. I want you off my list. I do not want to do business with you." You know, the last job that I walked away from, I was 28 years old. 20. Yeah. 28 years old. And the guy told me I was the number one producer in his company. I outproduced everybody in the company. I was a diva. I was a Tom Brady. I admitted I was a David Lynn. I was one of the greats. Okay. And I said, >> too much credit, man. >> I said to the employer, I said, he says, "Mind your own business, Grant." I said, "Okay, I will." and I walked across the street, boxed up all my and left the company. >> Okay, so the last time I worked for anyone, his company folded nine months later because he lost my production. Freedom for me is the ability to walk away and still take care of my family. Not quit. Because if you quit and you can't take care of your family, that was stupid. Okay. I want to be able to walk away from business, walk away from problems, walk away from the government. I need a couple of passports, a private jet, maybe I need a boat one day, and go do what I want, where I want, when I want. That's freedom. And that may or may not include America, by the way. >> I understand. Um, >> I had to leave I had to leave California to get free. >> Well, where would you go if you weren't in the US? >> Well, I would hope there would be other choices. I could go to Singapore. I could go to Dubai. You know, I know this. I need to bring my hustle with me. I need to pack my hustle, not my clothes. >> Let's brush this to crypto. Uh, would you ever consider tokenizing some of your real estate empire, putting it on the blockchain? >> I would, but it's not necessary. >> Okay. >> It's just not necessary. You get you got let's say you have a you know, you you've got a couple of commercial properties and you want investors. Well, at least people come to you and say, "Hey, I want to invest in your properties, Grant." And then well, you can't do that because you're not a private equity firm, but if you put that in the blockchain, if you tokenize a real world asset, which is the trend now. Um, you could potentially get thousands of people giving you money for your for your properties. >> I like that. I like that idea. But what we did was we figured out how to do that without putting it on the blockchain. >> Oh, yeah. >> So, we've done we've done $1.2 billion worth of real estate transactions this year and added almost $200 million of Bitcoin to that. We merged the two together in LLC. Uh we're doing a project right now, $230 million of real estate, $und00 million of Bitcoin, the largest real estate Bitcoin hybrid fund ever put together. One fund, one asset with Bitcoin, 230 of real estate, Boca Raton, Maine and Maine. Perfect real estate to do this with. We bought the real estate below replacement cost and then added Bitcoin to get us back to the replacement cost of the asset. Okay, the replacement cost on the asset was 340. So, we bought the real estate for 240, added a 100 million of Bitcoin, merged the two together, and allowed a couple hundred people to invest with us. We're going to take that entity, David, rather than putting it on the blockchain, we're going to convert it into shares and a publicly traded company and launch it here in December of this year. Well, let's talk about the let's talk about the Bitcoin. Yeah. So, you're going you're going public with this fund. Let's talk about the Bitcoin side. Was it your brother who talked you into getting Bitcoin, by the way? Was it Was it Was it Gary? >> Yeah. Well, you know, everybody wants to take credit for everything I I've done in my life. I want to give my brother credit right now for a big meeting that we did with Mike Sailor uh last year. Late last year, he got a meeting. Uh Gary's been a a big inspiration to me in in in what's going on in Bitcoin. Um, and you know, and and getting an education as well as a whole lot of other people in the Bitcoin spaces on X that have for the last three or four years I've been self-educating on Bitcoin and what it would do to how I could use Bitcoin to enhance our real estate portfolio. >> Right. And you actually bought more Bitcoin last week, I think, on the dip. >> I bought more yesterday. I bought more yesterday. >> Bought more yesterday. I bought I bought I bought 200 more pieces yesterday and I bought 300 last Friday. >> You're not you're not concerned about the volatility every time Trump announces a new tariff, which is what happened last week. Uh Bitcoin, here's a stat. Bitcoin by market cap lost more than the entire stock market capitalization loss during the 1929 crash. I know it was a different time. And just to put things in perspective, even though it was the single biggest day uh liquidation event for all of Bitcoin, all of crypto rather, Bitcoin only dropped about 15%. Uh which was not a significant number for for Bitcoin if you compare it to what it's done in the past. But you're not you're not concerned about this volatility. You're not concerned about, you know, huge swings to the downside or upside um at an uncertain time? >> No, not at all. because I'm combining it with real estate that has no volatility. >> Yeah. >> I'm taking the the lowest sharp score of any investment platform in the world for the last 2,000 years called real estate. It's like this the whole time. Just ding ding ding ding cash flow cash flow. It's very stable, very consistent, very difficult to replace. And I'm adding a the most volatile on top of that. Combining the two together, I have a like a super superhero action. Like I have something very stable and something volatile. I have something real and something digital. I have something that cash flows, something that doesn't. Something that something that comes with a great tax write off and one that doesn't. One that has no use except the preservation of capital and protection against um printing. And I have real estate that has a practical use. You have to live somewhere. Unfortunately, to the maximalists, you cannot live in your Bitcoin. Okay? I still need a place to live. So, when you combine these two, I think I'm going to create uh the well, our goal is to create the largest real estate Bitcoin fund on the planet that is going to disrupt the reed industry, David, that's $4 trillion and hasn't changed in 65 years. >> And so, when you accumulate all these bitcoins, what's your end goal here? Are you just going to are you going to turn into a treasury company, which is what you criticized earlier in the interview, or are you going to use it to buy real estate? >> Well, what what I criticized earlier, I didn't fully criticize, but the the the issue is not the treasury company is the problem. The issue is there's no company, there's no products, there's no services, there's no accounts receivables, there's no recurring revenue, there's no residual, there's no goodwill. Like, where's the company, dude? Everybody's trying to copy Sailor, but the truth is Sailor had $75 million of Ibida. He had customers. He had software. He has accounts receivables. He had employees. He had he had something happening already. >> What we're doing with the real estate is we're building a treasury, publicly traded company that will have Bitcoin on his treasury, but we have a real asset that people live in. We're collecting. Real estate is a fiat production machine. Okay, people come in, they live there, they have to have a place to live. They give us $4,500 for their rent. Some portion of that $4,500 hits the bottom line. That bottom line, the cash flow on 366 units or 14,000 units. The cash flow, in our case, this will be about $125 million a year of free cash flow. 10 million a month, they'll be buying more Bitcoin every month. So, the difference is we have a publicly traded company with Bitcoin on our treasury. Okay? Within six months of going public, we'll have a billion uh we'll have $2.5 billion dollars of real estate, $2.5 billion worth of Bitcoin, $200 million worth of Ebida. Okay? This isn't an empty treasury company with no product and no services. We'll have 30,000 people paying us every month for parking to live someplace. and we have the appreciation long-term, David, if we picked a great asset in a great location of the the real estate going up. So hopefully I got two things going up. >> Well, this sounds similar. Correct me if I'm correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds similar to what the Trump family is doing. They started off in the real estate business. Uh they've diversified into digital assets. They're now top 10 Bitcoin holders in the world. >> Yeah. >> Is that kind of what you aspire to to follow? Is that similar road path here? Well, I look, I I I'm not a Trump. I can't be a Trump. So, I gotta be a Cardone. I'm gonna have to just accept being who I am. I mean, I love the Trump family. I love what they've done. Um, I'm going to have my focus on one thing. I know I know they have their their focus is on a lot of things. Uh, big fan of theirs, by the way, but I'm going to have my attention on one thing. Building the largest real estate, >> trophy real estate and Bitcoin fund in the world. >> Okay. And going back to And I'm not going to be running for president, so I don't have that I don't have that conflict. >> Well, Trump said that 40 years ago, so who knows? Uh, what Grant, are you going to be doing anything with the Bitcoin, though? I mean, are you going to be using it as collateral for more real estate? Are you going to be buying stuff with it? Yeah, >> of course. Of course. Just Just like we refinance our real estate every 5 to seven years, we will use uh we will use Bitcoin as we see fit to borrow against it and to buy either more Bitcoin or more trophy real estate. What would prompt you hypothetically to sell bitcoins? All or some of it? >> I mean, if it went to a million dollars today, >> I would probably I would probably not sell it. You know, I know what we have on our balance sheet right now, but I would borrow against it. I'd borrow 20% of it. I'd borrow 20% either buy more Bitcoin or buy more trophy real estate, whichever I can get get the biggest discount on. Right now, I can buy trophy real estate, okay, in the best locations in the country, maybe the planet, for onethird below what it costs to build. That means if you build it for 300 million, I'm paying 200 million for it. That means I'm $100 million in the money the day I buy it. So, I can combine that. I can steal that piece of real estate as I have for 30 years now. This is what I've done for 30 years is steal real estate and keep it for long periods of time. Or I could steal great real estate that cash flows day one, stack Bitcoin on top of it, put the two together, allow my investors to benefit from not one but both. An old world asset, >> it's 2,000 years old. Everybody understands real estate. And this new world asset that's 16 years old, really a virgin, >> Bitcoin, that has the potential to be one of the largest asset classes in the world because it's digital. What do you think happens to Bitcoin's price when the interest rate goes to near zero, like you said earlier? >> Well, I think once we get over this little gold blip that we're having right now, we're going to have an explosion in Bitcoin. >> All right. To sum up, somebody somebody's looking at you, Grant, and saying, "Hey, look, I've got I've got some money right now in the bank. Um, this gold this gold thing is going out of control. It's $4,300 now. silver's all-time highs. My friends are asking me personally, should I FOMO into this? No, they're not they're not saying like that. They're asking me a different way. Yeah. But at the same time, you've got everything else going up. How do I I'm not asking you to tell us what to buy. I'm asking you to tell us how do I think about what's happening in the world right now. We've got political uncertainty or geopolitical uncertainty. Interest rates potentially coming down in the future. We've got all these things moving parabolically in the same direction. Uh real estate, like you said, is doing just fine. What do I do? How do I think about what do I do with my wealth? >> Look, I you know, it it's best for me to ignore most of what's going on in the world, the macro world. It's never benefited me in my career to get all distracted by all the hoopla of the world. Uh I would tell people number one, focus on yourself, okay? Make yourself better. Whatever you're doing, make yourself better at it. Like if you don't become a master of what you do, you're going to be underpaid. Number two, invest in your business first and yourself first. There is no company, no business, no investment, no piece of real estate, no Bitcoin, no gold, not an oracle investment or an Apple even at the perfect time that is going to make you more money in your lifetime than you and your business. And the third thing I would do is I'd find one thing to invest in, one thing outside of you and your business to invest in, and only one thing. I would not even look for two things. I would look for one thing where you could go all in. Whatever that one thing is, I don't know what it is for you. And I would find that one thing and I'd go I I would go all in. Everything I have, I would borrow to do it. Um I would wake up I I want it to be something that I would like wake up every morning and say, "I'm putting every piece of fiat I can into this." And and that's what I'm doing, David. Like I found one one vertical that I can drop hard on which is real estate for me and then I figured out a way to add to the real estate to make it better by adding the Bitcoin and I'm going to take that public and I'm going to share that vehicle which has never been done before by the way. There's a brand new product in the marketplace. The real estate industry has not trade a change in over 65 years since REITs were introduced in 1960. That's a $4 trillion industry now called the reed industry. I'm going to destroy it with this new product uh putting together real estate and Bitcoin. And I'm going to go singly focus. I'm going to miss gold. I'm going to miss Nvidia. I'm going to miss the AI. I'm going to miss a lot of things. Okay. But it's like being married. Okay. I might miss a whole bunch of stuff, but I'm happily married. >> You've got the uh the 10X Wealth Conference coming up in Miami. Tell us about that before we go. Let me just show this my screen here. Bunch of heavyweights attending this year. I mean, you usually do. What's the theme this year? You've got Gary Con going. Bob Dugen, um, Adam Kobes I've interviewed several times. >> Yeah. Money, finance, business, how to scale, how to invest. We're going to have some speakers come in talking about family offices, what the wealthy are doing. Uh, what are the hacks? This is what I always wanted access to, David. So, like everything else I do in my life, I democratize what I'm learning. Uh, we do events. We do about four events a year where we bring in the heavyweights of the heavyweights of money and finance. Uh, Marty, Marty Bnel and his team's going to be there. They they have about $580 billion of assets in a family office under management. And we're going to they're going to be kind of showing us behind the scenes at what the wealthy are doing for tax strategies and wealth preservation. You've spoken to a lot of I mean just on this front page you you've got Kevin Olirri there, Kathy Woods was there. You know, you've spoken to a lot of really successful business people, investors. What are these top 1% of the 1% of investors and business people doing that the regular person isn't? How are they how do they get there? >> Well, the thing that I have found that that most of these people have in common, if we were looking for one commonality, >> yeah, >> they do not diversify. This whole 6040 thing is not how they get rich. Getting rich is one thing. You know, once you're rich, doing what you're doing then later is something else. But most of these people are very very focused. >> They are not invested. You know, if you look at Steve Jobs, Steve Jobs had two investments his whole life. Most people don't know that he had Apple and Pixel uh what was it? Uh Pixar. Both both, by the way, he was involved in. Elon Musk, richest man in the world, he has six investments, all of which he has invested in himself. So uh you know Warren Buffett made all his money in one investment. Then then he went to a second one he was forced to by law but most of most of his wealth was concentrated in a handful of things. So that's what I would tell people is like if you study the wealthy, look at where they how they got wealthy, not what what they did once they were wealthy. And that's what I'll be interviewing these people about. It's like, tell me how you got there. Don't tell me what you did once you got there. I want to know how you got there. >> I don't need another rich person telling me that money won't make you happy and that I'm no happier. Guy's worth 12 billion. He says I'm no happier than when I was poor. I'm like, "Yeah, what's the point, bro?" Like, you're rich. >> You can't even remember when you were poor, man. >> Do you feel hap Okay, let me answer this question. >> Yeah. >> Do you feel happier now than you did when you were still at your last job? >> 100%. What are you talking about? >> Wait a minute. You have a family. You've got a beautiful daughter. You've got all these other things you didn't have. Let's just take those things out of the equation, >> right? You can't you can't take that away from it. But but no, dude. Dude, I'd rather have the money. Are you kidding me? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Somebody said money money won't make you happy. I'm like, what's what's the point? Would you rather be miserable and rich or miserable and poor? >> Fair. >> Give me that money, dog. Give me that money. >> It was It's actually a scientific study. Money may not make you marginally happier, but it's proven that poverty makes you depressed. >> Totally, bro. And by the way, if if you have poverty and you're you're happy, you you're you're broke and delusional because you should not be happy. If you're broke, you should be scared. Okay, this is the problem, David, with the middle class. I grew up in the middle class. I grew up voting Democratic, by the way. And the problem with the middle class is you're always worried about money. You can't truly be happy, really happy, genuinely sincerely happy, if you're constantly every 15 days worried about how am I going to pay the bills next month. And that's how I spent the first 30 years of my life. Now, I still worry about things. I still have concerns, but I don't have this constant plague about how am I going to pay the rent? And by the way, I remember growing up worried about how we were going to pay the rent. >> Well, uh, look at you now. Thanks, Grant. We'll, uh, we'll we'll we'll catch up another time. Where can we follow you? Where can we, uh, learn from you? >> Just Google search Grant Cardone, and I'll find you. I'll find you. >> Don't forget to comment down below. Uh, and if Grant's wrong about the interest rate, he'll give you $100. That's what he promised. That's right. >> All right. Thanks, Grant. I'll see you next time. >> Thanks, David.