Zinc, Silver, and Tin in 1 Exploration Company | Tinka Resources Interview
Summary
Investment Focus: Tinka Resources is advancing the Iawa project in Peru, a poly-metallic exploration with significant zinc, silver, and tin resources.
Project Economics: The 2024 Preliminary Economic Assessment (PEA) suggests a 21-year underground operation with a post-tax NPV8 of $434 million and a 26% IRR, based on conservative metal price assumptions.
Leadership and Strategy: New board members, including Brandon McDonald, aim to enhance capital markets strategy and potentially accelerate the project towards production.
Share Structure and Financing: Recent corporate actions include a 5-for-1 share consolidation and a $14 million CAD financing, with a focus on maintaining strong shareholder quality.
Market Position: Tinka is listed on the TSX Ventures Exchange with a market cap of approximately $70 million CAD, and recent trading activity indicates positive momentum.
Exploration Plans: Upcoming drilling at the Sylvia project targets gold-copper mineralization, with a focus on expanding and upgrading the Iawa resource.
Risk Factors: Key risks include macroeconomic conditions, geological uncertainties, and community relations, with a strong emphasis on maintaining good local partnerships.
Strategic Partnerships: Existing strategic investors include Nexa and Buenaventura, with potential for further strategic collaborations to support project development.
Transcript
Today on a CEO barbecue, we're looking for everything really, including the meaning of life, but mostly zinc, silver, copper, and gold in Peru together with Tena Resources. If you want a bulletpoint summary of this and all the other CEO barbecues in your inbox once a week, go to resourcealks.com and subscribe to our free newsletter. Now, although the company you're about to hear from has not paid us for the production of this interview, you should still not treat this video as research. Research is conducted by reading the company's official filings, which you can find on zedplus.ca. In any case, please only watch this if you absolutely know what you're doing. This interview is intended only for experienced junior mining speculators because mineral exploration, development, and mining is an extremely tough business where failure is the norm and should be the expectation. This is going to be a conversation that is general and impersonal in nature and it is also going to contain forwardlooking statements. I am not a licensed financial adviser and my business sells content producing services which also makes me biased. Although this company has not paid for the production of this interview, it doesn't mean they won't become a client in the future. They might. So before continuing on, please talk to an independent investment advisor with a good long-term track record because your capital might be at risk. If you're not 100% sure you understand 100% of the disclaimers I just showed you, please go to the last section of this video and do not consume this content unless you fully understand and agree with everything said therein. That all said, Tinka is, as I indicated, a poly metallic story. It's focused on advancing the Iawa project in the Pasco region of Peru, where they're currently getting ready to drill a gold copper target about 100 km south of Antameina. IKA is an advanced stage asset where a 2024 resource outlined a large zinc system with additional tenant silver zones and that's why I call it a poly metallic story. So, um, many different metals in there that we'll talk about, of course, later on. The zing zone came in at just under 60 million tons of zinc, spread almost 50/50 between indicated and inferred at respectively 5.8% and 4.2% average grade. The 10 zone shows just under 15 million tons though mostly in inferred with both average grades at around call it 75%. And again, there was a smaller silver resource on top of that as well. The 2024 PA suggests a 21-year underground operation with a post tax NPV8 of $434 million US and a 26% IRRa on the 382 million initial capex which the study says can be paid back in just under 3 years. Though to be fair, the prices used for that study are rather low relative to where the metal prices are today. Of course, these economics are preliminary in nature, hence the PA and uh they rely on other assumptions such as metallergical recovery, smelter terms, weighted average cost of capital and so on. So, do keep that in mind. But I'll also be asking more about this PA and the plans for potentially growing it from here on out as well as what the risks and challenges in that process might be later on in the conversation. Now, what caught my eye and why this interview is happening in the first place is because Brandon McDonald, whom I've known for a couple of years now, he um he led Fireweed Zinc at the time. So, Fireweed Zinc, how the time flies, but so he led uh Fireweed Zinc at the time and he's uh he's the one who got the Lundines into that story. And so, about a month and a half ago, him and Michael her, who is the um ex CFO of Adriatic Metals, joined the board at Tena. They did a five for one share consolidation and also closed an over 14 million Canadian dollar financing. So that's kind of the the thing that got it on my radar. Why that's happening and what's really going on is hopefully again something Brandon will be telling me more about later on in the conversation. Tenka is listed as TK on the TSX Ventures Exchange where the average 3-mon volume is about 200,000 shares though a recent uptake in trading has the 10day volume at about 320,000. Stock's 52-W week high is 62 cents and its 52-we low is 15. Pretty aggressive run on some of the last trading sessions. Has Tena at around 70 million Canadians in market cap. And with just over 133.6 million shares outstanding today, this is a 54 cent stock with a 50 and a 200 day moving average at respectively 37 and 31.5 cents, which means the stock is now trading well above both of them. And so in in a positive upward momentum, moving on to the share structure, I see 27.7 million warrants, most of which at 40 cents and expiring in October of 2029. And there's a small chunk that expires next summer with a 75 cent strike price as well. Just over 8 million options, most of which also at 40 cents, but they don't expire until late 2030. And there are still some options about a million and a half that expire next summer as well, but they're not in the money before 125. All in all, the number of fully diluted shares is just under 170 million, meaning an increase of about 27% in shares outstanding could happen if all the dilutive securities get exercised, which would then result in about a 21% ownership dilution if, and that's always a big if, of course, but if all the dilutive securities get exercised. And of course, none of this accounts for potential dilution down the road, which is not unlikely given that this is a pre-revenue company that operates in a very capital intensive industry. Talking about capital, there is um well, this is actually where I'd normally go over the latest financial statement, but given that the company just did a share consolidation as well as a you know big capital raise and is is essentially under under new leadership, I don't think the latest financial statement which is from June 30, 2025 will be entirely representative. But the more important part is that they've got roughly 15 million Canadian in cash right now and there's no long-term nor short-term debt. The 9-month operating expense were recorded at just under a million with the largest part being salaries, director and officer uh compensation combined, professional fees too combined on top of that. And again, what the GNA will be from here on out, how much they'll spend on marketing and how much on drilling and so on, as well as how executive compensation is going to be determined is hopefully something I can uh get more color on later on in this conversation. And as always, I would like to remind you to be cautious. Your capital may be at risk. Please visit teterplus.ca CA to view the company's financials for yourself. Now, for this to actually become a conversation, I'll have to shut up already and Brandon, I'll give you the word here. But first of all, thank you for sitting down with me today. >> Yeah, thanks. It's been uh it's been a while since I formally came on. >> It has been. I've been seeing you um at conferences and then you're always telling me that I should, you know, watch this space. You're going to see what's coming. And uh in a sense, I thought you were done with Zinc, but it seems like Zinc's not done with you. Uh so what's uh what's going on? What's your what's your involvement here with the Tinker story? Uh because you call it a corporate reorganization, I believe, but is it is it an activist move or why are you you and and her getting involved and and why now? Yeah, I mean uh not a coincidence that that her and I both coming from um zinc, you know, he you know, Adriatic was probably more silver than zinc, but nonetheless, you know, still pretty pretty uh involved in the zinc space. Um when the the bid came in from Dundy Precious for Adriatic, uh Michael reached out and you know said to me, I mean reached out, we chat all the time, but you know he he said to me like why aren't we can we do something with Tinka? You know we recognized that um they were in a pretty rough spot at at that time. They're third largest shareholder which was a pretty substantial block was a private equity fund called Sentient. uh their fund was at end of life. They were in redemption period and they were you know for lack of a better way out they were aggressively selling their position into the market. Um and of course when you know someone's an insider and they're doing that it is entirely transparent what is happening right so unsurprisingly a lot of people pulled their bids thinking that that Sunday would have to hit them at a lower price and that's exactly what happened. So, you know, pre-conolidation, uh, they effectively got sold down from 134 cents to as low as 3 1/2. You know, the final day, Sentient dumped 72 million shares, I want to say, into the market, right? So, it's pretty pretty ruthless. Um but um you know it it left uh you know a company with a really great project um in a pretty challenging position like with a with a really low valuation yet without the confidence of the market. Um, so you know, Michael and I gathered some backers who had backed me at Fireweed and him at Adriatic and and put together a book and approached the Tinka board. Um, I I had known Grant Carman, the CEO there for for quite some time. Um, and we approached them and said, "Look, we've got at least 10 million in backing. Uh, we want to join the board and and we can inject this capital into there and this is what we want to see and um, would you be interested?" and and they said yes. Right. So it was I would say it was pretty activist. It was definitely not a situation where we joined the board and then went looking for money. We actually had the money with us to approach them. Uh so it was a different situation. I'd never done that before, you know, and obviously the capital that backed us understood that the two of us knew a lot about zinc projects globally and they believed us when when we said that this was a real standout. uh you know for me personally when Fireweed launched you know went public in 2017 the the gold standard for zinc Jr. in terms of valuation was Tinko, right? That was always the peer on our peer chart that we wanted to achieve the relative valuation of. um you know they were doing great and and um 2018 hit the the trade wars were kicked off and like us they were hammered and you know I think the difference was is the fire we'd managed to get our feet back underneath us uh in large part because we got the Lundines help um and you know Dinka couldn't and then that's true of a lot of different zinc juniors who were riding high in 2017 2018 um but those other Zinc juniors didn't really have the quality project that we saw here. Uh so let's put us where we are now, right? Uh you know, I'm um exec chair. Um which means that I'm involved dayto-day. Uh I try to stay um out of operations unless I'm asked, right? You know, I don't I don't want to be a backseat driver on the minutia. That is really still Graham, the CEO's responsibility. Um, but I'm there to really do more heavy lifting on capital markets and strategy, etc. Um, which was an area that I think they recognized was was a shortcoming. >> So, you you're going to be on a lot of podcasts then. >> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You'll you'll never get rid of me. >> Um, that works well for me. You don't you don't currently have any other executive report. Well, you do actually with uh commander. >> Yeah. Well, commander now in Duro. Uh, I'm chairman there, but I'm not an executive chair there. >> Right. And so that, you know, people ask me what's the difference? And and I guess, you know, I talk to to Rob and Will at at Enduro um almost daily, right? But there's very little that gets left on my plate, right? At the at the end of the day, I'm non-exec um you know, I I provide them with the guidance and help they need and then they go and execute. U with Tinka, I'm a bit more involved, right? So, I would actually um take some stuff on and actually get it done, right? And and and take it fully off Graham's >> plate. That's you say capital market. So, so I suppose yeah, telling the story is part of that. Um raising capital sort of heavy lifting would still will still fall on you eventually when you have to do that. Is that kind of what your day-to-day is going to look like? Just essentially talking to people hopefully a little less annoying than myself. >> Yeah. Yeah. Look, you man, you haven't met some of the shareholders we deal with if you think you're on the more annoying end of the spectrum, but um it's it's a lot of that. Yeah. You know, helping guide um the strategy um then communicating it, right? You know, it's you got to have a good strategy and then you got to communicate that strategy and and convince people to buy in. >> Yeah. skin in the game. You as um newcomer to the story wouldn't have had any founder shares. Um but how many shares do you own right now? And what's the average price you've paid for these shares? >> Um I put in $250,000 into the financing. Um I guess post roll back that is a 27 12 cent share price. So So whatever that math brings me to. Is that is that just under uh uh just under a million or just over a million? I don't know what the math is. Something like that. >> Oh, that's fair. >> I should probably know that. >> But um and then I uh have a pretty, you know, one of our asks was a pretty good grant of options for joining. Um so I have probably about 2 million options as well. >> Oh, okay. Do you plan to increase your position in the market or or future financings and and and do you have kind of a target as to how exposed or how much exposure you want to have to teno or Yeah. How do how do you think about that? >> Yeah, I don't know if there's a target, you know, um with both, you know, enduro I'm about $200,000 deep as well and and so um uh tank I'm about $250,000 deeper. So slightly more. or it's a slightly less speculative play. Um maybe maybe not quite the the riskreward ratio or or you know less risk you know but um that that seems to me be about the bite right bite size given my personal net worth right now. Um I would you know definitely continue to follow on in additional financings as I did with fireweed. um putting down another $200,000 might uh attract the uh hostility of my wife. We we'll see. Um you have to be a little bit prudent. Um but I think yeah look definitely continuing and and I think opportunistically in the market if there's some sort of dislocation, right? like you think you know that that sentient selling was a great example of a entirely irrational dislocation like nothing to do with the project or anything or the jurisdiction or whatever right it's just a wholly irrational repricing um you know I think everyone needs to be aware that that or watch out for those sort of things and and you know pick it up when you can >> people who bought at the bottom there are sitting on a triple now already right you know 5 months later >> just When your wife thought Zinc was done with you, Zinc pulls you back in. Um, you might have to say that in an accent, but it wouldn't be fair because I'm actually stealing your joke. Um, what is the uh what's the rest of the insider ownership here from the perspective of directors and officers? Who owns what? >> Yeah. Um, Michael put in about 250,000 uh as well into the financing. Uh Graham put in I want to say under half that but still a a good amount. Um you know there there is hasn't been a major inside block. I mean this company has been around for a while. Um and I don't think anyone was there during the formation. Um so you know it's been you know I recognize you know probably a little underheld by management. Right. Well, given that what would what would I put you then in in total in terms of percentage is what I'm thinking because given that you just joined you know or have an idea as to where the the rest of the stock is is what I'm thinking. Do do you how what percentage of of the company do you think is in what people are calling you know strong hands? And I don't like that term but I'm just thinking about how much of the stock can you track essentially? Oh, you know, we put um um of the 40% of the stock is the recent financing basically, right? Um and that was that was our list very carefully curated. There is uh of that 14 million maybe 500,000 maybe slightly more is kind of randos or not randos but like people who weren't with us when we when we approached them and you know we're not you know I'm not going to approach someone with a bunch of you know and then and then tie my reputation and my own capital uh to a company when I know I'm bringing in bad shareholders, right? Um, so you know there's there's some bigname funds in there who normally have much much larger bite sizes uh and some high net worths who you know backed me extensively at fireweight that I know are good shareholders. You know that that was a lesson um that was difficult to learn. you know, fireweed is my first time in the big chair, so to speak. And then there was a lot of tough lessons there and and I think one that I really learned was that um shareholder quality is something that is so hard to identify and virtually impossible for a you know retail investor to spot uh because you just don't you you can't see the share registry, right? But um it's tough, you know, a bad shareholder registry and you can fight that, you know, you can fight those shareholders every step of the way on the way up, right? Um >> you know, and we we know that, you know, for example, um you know, we're we're coming into a company that's down substantially. When we announced the financing and a consolidation, you know, we turned over 10% of the stock in a week. A lot of people were uh you know unsurprisingly you know if you're down 80% you see you're getting you know rolled back a lot of people just threw in the towel right you know um I wish they had taken a closer look at the plan and and our strategy but you know we we we know who who did most of the buying right so we know it's in good hands um but that's you know kind of how you expect to to go with these things you know it's never it's never a uh low liquidity ride to the top, there's always going to be sellers and and I think the the tighter you can control the share registry um you know the easier it's going to be. >> You were essentially looking for serious investors with deep pockets which um makes sense that you didn't call me then in that case. I'm not going to take it personally though. >> How's uh talking about this? How's the relationship with Nexa and Buenov and now after kind of the the rest restructuring here because I think they they didn't come in on that financing or they they did. So, so yeah, what's the what's the state of those? >> So, so they didn't um which was fine, right? Um you know, they they both had individual circumstances and um they still have representatives on the board. Um we're very close with them. um with neither was it a indictment that they didn't you know in fact with one of them I you know sat down with them over lunch and made it pretty clear that that you decide and and don't feel stressed about it which is to say that um if you know don't feel like they need to support the company because you know we had we had all the orders there in fact we had 35 million in orders within 2 days of announcement right so um their order was not the difference between us succeeding in the financing or not or being able to get the drone program done or not. Um you know I think there's close personal relationships with these companies and the Tinker management team in particular Graham and so I think you know their support and the financing that was launched at the end of last year um had a lot to do with wanting to support the company and wanting to support Graham. Um, you know, I think they felt maybe a little bit less pressure, right? Um, so I think it's great. They're they're they're strong partners. They bring a lot of local knowledge. Um, you know, a lot of uh strategic value. Um, and it's and it's two very tight blocks. So I think they've been diluted down to maybe 13 14% now, right? But that's that's effectively a 30% block, you know, between the two of them that's going nowhere. um another 40% from our new shareholders. That's mostly, you know, not going to go anywhere, right? So, slowly by surely whittle away the the free float. >> We'll definitely talk about um what you're going to do with that money, when the next time you're going to be raising, how you going to do that. Uh I do have it on my list here. We'll get to it. Uh just still doing the the smell test here, if you will. Um royalties, what's the royalty situation? And do any insiders personally own a royalty on any of these projects? >> No. So, so the um Iowa project has a royalty that can be purchased outright. Um that is owed to a couple gentlemen who helped source the project uh for Tinka way back in the day. Um now, um the Sylvia project has a royalty due to BHP because that's where we got it from in 2021. So BHP was had done a large regional program looking for Antiminaike deposits. Um the Sylvia ground was some of the ground they owned. Uh they were going to let it lapse. Um they were focusing their priorities elsewhere and so they came to Tinka and said like look you pay the renewal and give us a royalty it's yours. Right. So it was a very very low purchase price for for a pretty compelling target which was subsequently identified. >> Mhm. Still within our smell test and still talking about incentives. How do you look at spending money in the future and how is specifically executive and director compensation going to be structured as in uh what are your KPIs for determining it going to be? >> Yeah, you know, we don't have KPIs in place yet. I'll be completely honest with you, right? So, I think part of what I'm trying to do is um get get this running like a uh$100 or $200 million company, right? Um because I believe we'll get there. Um now you don't you want to rightsize your bureaucracy and procedures in a company. You want to be very careful about uh you know loading a company with really involved procedures um when it doesn't have the market cap or spend to justify that right because it just grinds everything to a halt. need, you know, part of the power of a say $5 million junior is extremely nimble and fast decisions, right? You know, the ability to to pivot on a dime. Um, as you get bigger, uh, you recognize those, you know, and you got an actual going concern and and things to to do and a and a long-term plan, you got to be a little more procedure driven with or, you know, within that that nimleness. Um so your KPIs what was the other was specifically question sorry >> how do you think about spending money in the future as in how are you going to compensate um you know executives and board member are you going to have a salary what is that going to look like >> yeah so um my salary is 150 CAD uh I don't have any access to bonus or anything like that um that's a reflection of of part-time right so uh my base salary was about twice that at at fireweed plus I had a you know significant and uh cash bonus potential every year. Uh I didn't feel I needed that here. I I wanted it I wanted the salary to reflect that um I wanted something like cuz I'm exec but nice and thankfully you know I cashed out a fired with enough that um I didn't you know need to be hyperfixated on you know getting the most salary possible. You know, it was it was when I joined Fire just the uh you know, every penny literally we had to our name we put into that company, right? So, I had a lot of anxiety about what my salary was cuz that was how I lived and and you know, that was in a very expensive town. Um you know, I I feel great privilege now that I don't have to look over my shoulder like that anymore. Um >> so, um yeah, and you know, Graham's on the same salary was before. We haven't we haven't made any adjustments there. Um and we're you know have a modest uh director's fees. Um I think we're going to have a more uh structured approach uh in terms of KPIs and salaries and benchmarking etc. uh through the comp committee put in place over the next sort of 6 to 8 months. um and also building up to a a structured um medium and long-term budgeting process. >> Do you think you're going to make any more changes in in the meantime? Like get a new CEO or anything like that? Is that is that the intention or what kind of you know big changes do you want to make at at kind of the corporate level if you will? >> I think we got to see how this goes, right? Um, you know, part of what what Michael and I really felt was that, um, they were stuck in an exploration loop at Iawoka. Um, and this, you know, third PA, right? Um, not really a lot of progress forward. They improved the resource, improved the geological understanding of it, definitely added value. Um but you know we contrast that to someone like Adriatic who just went you know hellbent for production right um it's certainly a risky approach as well right but we really felt that there was a high-grade core at Iawoka and that we needed to progress towards that now if we if we take that route by Graham's own admission he is an exploration geo he's a very good exploration Gio um but he's not a mindbuilder right so um we make if we fully commit to the permitting engineering construction you know uh operations path there'll be a you know transition there um and you know it's it's nice um dealing with a management team and board that everyone recognizes that they are a a piece of the puzzle and it is an evolving puzzle. And so pieces get swapped in and out, right? Um that that's fine and it should be fine. And and management that refuses or boards that refuse to let go um are an obstruction to process to progress >> and to process. Uh that is actually a nicely book, but it's it's true. And I will get back to that because I do want to know how you're going to make that decision and when. So I'm writing down some stuff that we're going to get back to. But I think that about does it for the for the smell test. I want to go back to something else that you said at the beginning, but looking at the um the share price, you know, the tank of share price over the last 5 years, it hasn't been great. Um walk me through what happened there? You've obviously looked into it, but what was was there something wrong with the company? Uh was it that loop or what are you going to be doing differently this time around to essentially not fall into that loop of, you know, falling share price again? Yeah, like I said, everyone in the zinc space, all Fireweed and Tinka's peers along with Fireweed and Tinka crap the bed in the latter half of 2018, right? And it was basically, you know, I mean, credit to Arizona mining, who sold to South 32, who who was the gold standard of Zinc Jr. at that point in time, you know, that was 1.8 billion US they sold for in mid 2018. It must have been within 2 weeks of Trump, you know, announcing the trade wars, like literally, right? And then the whole base metal complex had issues and none bigger than zinc, right? Like economic slowdown um kills base metal demand, right? You know, the they're fundamentally tied to global economic health. Um, so all of us, you know, fireweed peaked at $2.14 in um, uh, mid 2018 and then I think it was down to 60 by, uh, you know, mid 2019, right? Um, you know, it was and then I mean 2020 we were down as far as 30 cents, right? When when you know, the markets really, you know, had struggles during co. Um so basically same thing happened to Tena. Uh a bit of you know momentum here and there. Um the introduction of you know buura the nexa helped but I think a lot of the market wondered why there was two strategics and no bids for the project you know. So that's you know you bring in these strategics and then nothing happens with them. People start to think that maybe nothing going to happen right I I guess you know you can't everyone has their own reason for selling. Um, and unfortunately selling begets selling, you know, creates a bad chart and and that becomes a beast of its own, right? Um, it's very hard to fight that that chart. Everyone assumes there's something wrong. It's like, well, what's wrong is everyone's assuming there's something wrong, right? Um, so sometimes you just have to kind of flip the script and and that is not always easy to do. Um, they clearly I think needed more capital markets help during that period. Uh, and and I think that's what what Michael and I bring, right? And so we're hoping that now, you know, we have a more cohesive or are building a more cohesive strategy. Um, we have an exact chair, another board member, uh, who have, you know, deep experience in the capital markets and know how to, you know, get some excitement behind a a listing junior. Well, to follow up on that and and and also what you claim on present on slide or page three in your presentation is where you say that you want to shorten the development pipeline to production. >> Yeah. Is is it is it you who will be trying to bring this asset into production? Is that are you are you dead set on that or will you be looking for you know an exit after I don't know potentially an updated resource or whatever it might be? Um I you can't force an exit, right? So everything we do to get this closer to production makes the project more salailable. Buying the surface rights, detailed metallergy, detailed engineering studies, M&I drilling to M&I in the critical zones, etc. Right? All of these things make it easier for someone to purchase you. Right? that that is big box checking in terms of the major risks, right? Getting community agreements, etc. Right? So, these these are all things that should make it easier for us to be purchased. Um, if it was a betting man, I would be surprised if we built this. But, um, at the same time, you you take it that, well, someone's definitely going to buy us. It just leads to bad decision-m, right? which is maybe what had been done right over the last sort of 6 years was like we'll just keep building it bigger and someone's going to have to buy us. Um and I don't think anybody has to do anything right. So so you want a daylight value build it. Um and and I think one of the things that you know Michael and I really feel and and I think the board's bought into you know including our strategic investors is that you know it doesn't have to be the biggest green fields build to be a green fields build at all. I mean we can preconentrate and toll mill or something at at another semi idle or idle mill within 100 km and there's quite a few around there. um you know we can think about it not in terms of maximal NPV but in terms of maximal NAV per share right now um because those may not be the same thing right because a maximal NPV study may require the most drilling to get the reserve conversion may require the most time to do that which means you know more years discount to production uh may require more complicated permitting, riskier permitting, etc. Um and then ultimately higher capital um which may be harder to finance and may have tougher financing terms. So a smaller NPV may actually be more value for current shareholders. What would that's that's a good point that I think we'll be back to as well, but what would a resource or an updated resource here have to look like in order for it to be of interest to a potential buyer, I guess, both in terms of economics, but also in terms of size? I mean, is is there a magic number for Zinc? >> No, I don't think so. Right. And and I mean I I I don't know what the imperatives uh of each, you know, potential acquirer are, right? you know, there there's a project for sale near us, uh, RARA, the RA mine that that's being sold by Mansour. Um, there's not a there's significant less than a decade of of reserves there. I could see the the final owner of that, which which might might might be known before the end of this year, um, being quite interested in Iawoka. they may have a lot, you know, if they're thinking, you know, pre-conentration at Iaw Wilka and trucking at 35 km, which is not far, um, to, um, the RA mill, they may have a pretty low threshold to view Iawa as interesting. Someone who's thinking who has no assets in Peru and is thinking we want to get a tow hold in Peru may need to see something pretty big to justify setting up the entire uh infrastructure of of a you know new country right so you know everyone's going to be different um you know we when we kind of raise the cuto off and we look at you know the the higher grade zones which are regionally continuous in the west and and south parts of Iawoka Um, you know, I'd like to see those about 50% bigger to get a um, you know, a a good mine life at at sort of a plus 12% zinc equivalent. Um, you know, I think I is what I would like to see. You know, that that's a that's a pretty great mine in Peru if you can do that, right? Um, so I I think drilling these big stepouts into the lowgrade sort of distal zones um allows you to build an inferred resource very quickly. I don't know that that resource adds economic value, right? And so that's what we're really trying to focus on is like maybe not be resource and MPV maximalist, maybe focus on, you know, high-grade, you know, pragmatism, right? >> You're a great maxi. Um, I can get behind that. What is it? What is the acid called there? Ra. >> Ra. R A U R A. >> Say that five times fast. That's a funny name. >> Uh, what is the what do you think? Rough estimate ballpark. How much money would you have to spend on it to get it, you know, 50% larger than it is right now? those stepouts that you mentioned. Um, if I could give you a credit card with an exact number of, you know, a dollar value on it right now, how much money would you want me to put on the credit card? >> Good question. Right. Um, you know, I I've seen some comments on social media that our next drill program is going to double the resource, which is a real failure to look at how much drilling has been done to date, right? You know, like it's >> No pressure though. >> Yeah. So, you think about 100,000 meters done to date or something like that. So to duplicate that would be >> uh we're not going to do 100,000 meters this year. That's for sure. That's that's a lot of drilling. Um so uh I I I don't know, you know, I like I don't we're not going to accomplish that. Unlikely um based on my feeling about the resource to accomplish that 50% in the next drill program, but I think we can get a good move on it. It's possibility, right? Like I think I if you you know have a good sense of where the high grade is and and where it's extending and if you find any more of these you know high-grade sort of pipes um you might be able to develop some high grade tons pretty quick. I mean, you're not talking about building another 30 mil, you know, 30 million tons is 50% of of everything, right? But if you're looking to add another 4 million tons of high-grade, that may not require a ton of drilling, right? If if if you can really nail down your exploration and and lock it in. So, I I don't know. Like I I my gut is 15 million, I guess, right? Like I I don't know. Um >> is seasonal drilling there, right? >> No, not I welcome. No, no. Um, at uh Sylvia, yeah, uh the access at Sylvia is a bit harder. So, the the rainy season there would be a bit of an impediment to drilling. Um whereas at Ioka, I think you could if you really want to drill year round. Um what's stopping us from getting into drilling at Iawoka right now um is that we want to renew our community agreements. >> Right. And >> we have one active, uh, one just expiring, one that's lapsed a while back because we hadn't been drilling in in that community's area. We'd like to get two or maybe all three renewed. Um, they're all having elections late this year. So, we'll be waiting till the elections are done um to start those negotiations, which is why we we are projecting a drill program and starting in July, August at Iowa. >> Oh, definitely asking about the community relations. um important everywhere, definitely important in Peru as well. So, >> we'll definitely get to that, but but what I'm really thinking about here is, yeah, how much money is it going to cost you? How much time is it going to take you to get it to that, you know, critical scale? D-risk it enough where it's interesting and and large enough. Um, two to three seasons. Does that sound reasonable? >> I think we can do it faster than that. I think we can do it faster than that for sure. Um, and like I say, interesting enough, it's very much in the eye of the holder, right? that this project's been close to M&A before. So I I think that um it's already there in the eyes of some people. Um and I and I think you might not need to drill it right off. Drill it off as in like define it um to show that it's there, right? You have you have a handful of good high-rade hits um and and you convince a potential acquirer that like, oh, hey, like it's there. Are they going to get FOMO? Are they really going to wait around for you to do what maybe I mean look drilling drilling from the first hits to a resource is never a foregone conclusion right like it's never like oh sure like we've got three hits we've definitely got a you know this is now we just like d and it's done right it's like no it's not that simple but um you know companies can't get FOMO right and they can see like well if they keep getting hits like this it's just going to get more expensive and if it was already basically there and the riskreward ratio or you know is like okay well we we know there's more high grade we just don't know how much you know may maybe they move on it um but you know at the end of the day like you know we see an opportunity to you know that that doesn't really change our thoughts visav um design maybe too much right like whether it's 10 or 15 year mine life um you know on a smaller high-grade you know really focused approach um so maybe we get stuck into permitting anyways right like you know Start that clock, right? Get get going. >> Well, you could make that work if you're uh owned by the Chinese government. You could drill a hole here and then another hole, you know, a kilometer down there and then just block model and be like, we've got a $700 billion gold deposit right here. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've seen that. Jeez, I get that from relatives all the time of like, oh, this country has discovered the biggest gold deposit in history. It's like, wow, let's talk about that in a year's time, right? How do you 15 million bucks doesn't sound unreasonable at this market cap, but but you still got to have a plan for financing it? Would you just straight equity? Would you consider JV? Uh is there room for another strategic here next to Nexa and and Buenav Ventura? How do you think about financing this company? >> U look you can there's there's a right price for everything. Like I think you recognize that a JV it completely hamstrings your your I mean your your M&A options, right? Uh then you got one partner and you're you're at their mercy uh in terms of how fast they go and you can put all sorts of hooks into the contract to to keep them honest. Um but you're still at their mercy mostly, right? So um I don't love JVS. Uh junior major JVS don't often work out. I mean, look, expiration doesn't often work out, right? So, I get, you know, may maybe that's just a truism no matter what the structure. Um, I I don't think, you know, we know that some of our existing shareholders will reup and and grow their position, not not just um not just maintain it. So, we see a path there in the equity markets as long as the equity markets don't completely fall out, right? And and you know I think this is one of your videos recently about you know is this a true bull market? Uh if it is um quality projects should not struggle to raise money you know and they the trick is going to be are are you building the book yourself with quality names or are you going to a you know brokerage house that's doing a driveby and is going to just fill it and churn it. Um because there's lots of that in a bull market, right? Uh and that that's what separates the wheat from the chaff and manager for sure. >> How do you feel about warrants going forward? I mean, I saw some complaints online about the warrant structure being too too cheap and too generous with the recent financing. So, how do you plan on dealing with warrants in the future? >> Well, those are our people, right? So, um you know, that was maybe the last time we issue warrants, right? You know, in fireweed we issue warrants in 2020 only, right? right? The rest of the time I didn't um this one I you know I mean to be completely selfish I was coming in right I wanted a aggressive terms that was the the cost of my involvement and the cost of you know our initial placement um you know now now we're in right so now they're not negotiating against me I'm negotiating for them um so it's it's I I'm not super concerned about those warrants when I look at who they're held by um you know I think we're fine Right. >> You don't think they they kneecap, you know, growth from here on out potentially just because of the pricing? >> Oh, we're already well over the warrant price, right? If it if I mean, I guess, you know, we're we're they can't trade the warrants cuz we're more than 4 months over anyways, right? I I would be surprised if there's much selling to ride the warrants. There'll be some. There always is, right? But, um, even people who you swear are great shareholders, uh, they were great shareholders for you once, they may not be a second time, right? You just you got to you got to anticipate that. Um but I think you you deliver you produce good results. Uh you keep the market informed. Um you know I think that problem is is the least of your concerns. >> What is the most of your concerns? What's the biggest risk for Tena in the process of trying to get to that point? Is it geological, metallological, financial community, something else? >> Um macroeconomic would be probably the biggest risk for every junior right now, right? Um and and that's like I said that's that's universal, right? Um you look at what happened to Tinka and Fireweed in 2018 could happen again, right? Like there's a lot of tariffs right now, right? So um precious metals are doing well. Base metals okay, right? considering the the amount of tariffs and and trade frictions being introduced right now. Um base metal is going to rip if you know the tariffs all evaporate and we're back to a you know more freer trade environment. Um I I I think there's there's lots of geological and engineering risk at Iowa coming. Obviously huge amount of geological risk at Sylvia, right? This has never been drilled, right? So so great great trenches uh do not always equate to great drill results. Um sometimes they do and that's what we're hoping for. Um so a big geological risk there. Uh I welcome may not have a lot of you know more fruit to to bear in terms of high grade. Right. So our our thesis may not play out that way. We feel it does, but but you can be wrong. Um and yeah, community, you know, we we've um pretty good relationship with the community. They they seem pro project. Uh all four communities we deal with, one at Sylvia and and three at um at Iawoka, all seem they want agreements. They want the project forward. They want jobs, etc. Um but they these things can pivot, right? So um they can change it can take a turn you know you can you can get a uh an election that that goes against you and and anti-development or anti-mining people come in um you know it's it's the reality um so and in small communities like that it's very personality driven I mean it is in you know countries as well you look what's happening in the US you know there big big change based on one personality Um but in communities it's like you know you might have 200 people you're dealing with >> right? So so it's like literally one person can sway and you know his family and extended family and and suddenly you know it's not the same as it was before. So you know you have you have to put in the the hard yards there. Um I I felt pretty good about Iowa cuz metallergy and and engineering etc. Right. Um but um yeah, I would say what what keeps me up. So to kind of recap, what keeps me up most of the night is just macroeconomic. Um you know, just it's one of those rare projects that I'm like, "Okay, yeah, like feels like we can build a mine here, right?" Like like like not without challenges cuz it's a challenging industry, but it feels like we're there, right? Which is a great position to be in. I think to make the community thing happen, you you you might have to change your Twitter handle from Yukon Brandon to Peru Brandon. That's uh >> That's right. Yeah, >> that's going to be the that's going to be the thing pulling them over the line. Um, how far are you from any agriculture or any other potential areas of of life that you might disturb with this project either during exploration or mining? >> Oh, well, there's little hamlets, etc., uh you know like these little tiny mini villages on the project and and around the area and stuff like that. So you know there's there's a good risk that you disturb people, right? And um you know do they you know is is there a price that makes them happy that allows them to set up you know their their little farm elsewhere? Um that's we had to figure out. um the the the communities themselves are far enough away that they would not be directly impacted, you know, and I think there's a way to honestly to to truck the concentrate out that isn't having to go right through these communities as well. >> Um so I think that um you know it's not you know it's not going to be a massive disruption to anyone I don't think. >> What do community consultations look like for you? I mean, h have you been there already, talked to the people and and and what is that actually going to look like? Um, >> if you've not done it once, >> I haven't. Right. I I mean, they probably don't speak much English and my Spanish is limited, very limited. I I I've done work in Latin America um enough that there was a time when I was uh I would say functional in Spanish. uh you know, I could um get around if if there was nobody that spoke English, I wasn't going to starve to death or anything like that, right? Um but I was never talking about my hopes and dreams or or certainly doing detailed negotiations in Spanish. Uh >> you're just like don Estella Disc and that was basically it, right? >> Yeah, basically. Yeah. Yeah. Um and um also you know even Graham for the most part we have community people stays out of the discussions a bit uh cuz in the event like it the discussion goes kind of south if the CEO and chairman are involved in it there's no one to go above that right um so you know keeping it one step removed so that you can escalate I think is is valuable and so for that escalation hasn't been needed. >> Mhm. How's power in the region? Um now for exploration, but also again thinking about a potential mining scenario. What kind of upgrades are needed? >> Well, there's a big power line through the project. Look at the look at the um uh photos. You'll see it. And actually there's a there's a subsidiary of Tinka that's set up that owns power rights uh there, right? So, we actually have the rights to that power already, which is one, you know, I mean, that's I mean, coming from being in the middle of nowhere in Yukon, um, to some like, oh, there's the high voltage power line. That's and we've got a right to the power. Like, that's what a what a change, right? >> Yeah. All the more reason to change your name to Peru Brandon, I suppose. >> That's right. Yeah. >> How you say big power line, how big is it? I mean, is it is it is it mining power? I mean it's because you need larger infrastructure essentially if it's going to be you know a mining operation. >> This may be above my Craig pay grade but I'm pretty sure um there is a substation 4 km away and the um yeah I'm just looking it up here but I don't know what exact um >> four is better than 400 >> or anything. >> Yeah. U and but but and then the power lines themselves to go right over the project. >> Right. Um, I don't know what voltage they are. They looked pretty material to me. Like they're they're not like, you know, power a subdivision sort of power lines. Like they're they're beefy. >> You went there yourself before that. I I think of you've been to the project multiple times. How's um security? I mean, when you step on the ground, do you need like an escort? Like whatever. >> No, no, no. We we we drove there without escort, without anything like that. and you know I'd stopped in the communities and talked to some people and um you know on site there was you know no need for anything like that. I didn't I don't you know this doesn't seem like a part of Peru where that's a big concern that perhaps I could change right um but at least now it's it's been pretty safe. Um, you know, I've I've worked in places where I did not feel safe like very much. And and I've been in, you know, uh, you know, when I was in Colombia, um, some villages, it just felt weird. I don't I don't know how to describe what, um, what you were even seeing that felt weird. It was just something about it felt weird. And I got none of that vibe at all. Right. Um, I I was getting out of the vehicle. My presence was unremarkable. Nobody seemed to care. Right. So, I think that's that's a good indication. >> Yeah. You've worked in Vancouver, too. Um, >> and I think Michael's in London, isn't he? >> Yes. Yeah. >> Right. There you go. We'll talk about the interest places. Um, how's water? What's the water situation there? Uh, who's got the rights? Is there is there enough water? What does that look like? >> Yeah. I'm not uh I'm not sure about the water rights there. you know, there is pretty healthy uh rainfall seasonally there. Um, you know, I know that um for the drilling at least, they have a couple big ponds that they collect water in so they can drill in the dry season. Uh, what that means for, you know, uh, production in the dry season, I'm not sure. Um, I could certainly chase that down. Um but it's you know the in terms of the negative sides of water um the water table is mostly below I think it's entirely below the uh west deposit or at least the important parts the west deposit and halfway down the south deposit which is good you know the less you have to to drain the better. >> Yeah topography uh might be worth touching upon as well. What does that look like where you are? Well, it's interesting the like it's a bit of a plateau um the project. Um and not that it's completely flat, but I would say it's kind of like rolling hills, which you'll see in the photos, but then you kind of go a little bit away and then it drops off pretty sharply, right? Um you know, these big limestone cliffs, etc. there. Um so, you know, the last 3 km of driving, you do quite a bit of switch back to get up there. Then once you're up there, it's kind of just rolling hills. Um so, you know, lots of room for infrastructure up on the um plateau for sure. >> But you you can drive the rig up there then. You don't have to fly it in. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> But let's do talk about what you have going on right now cuz you're going to be drilling soon, I believe. Um >> yeah, Sylvia, I mean imminent, but that the the rig is being I mean has been mobilized. like they're >> they've got it all to sight and I don't know exactly when drilling starts but it'll be soon. >> That's your gold copper target. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's very different. There's no road to that. So that was a that was a production to get that drill in, >> right? What are you paying per meter per meter drilled or what are you going to be paying per meter drilled? >> Uh for Sylvia it's going to end up being around,000 bucks which is pretty expensive. Um, but that's because it's a small program and because there's been so much work establishing the trail to the drill site and getting the drill up there and all the the bits and bobs for the drill. Um, you know, I think it's probably that's about I want to say 1.2 million US program uh for 1,500 m um thereabouts. I suspect it's probably about, you know, which would you which make you say about $800 per meter or something like that. I suspect it's probably about $400 a meter uh plus $600,000 in costs of getting established there, right? So, I think our subsequent programs there are going to be a lot cheaper. Um we're also looking to amend the permit there to allow for the use of helicopters cuz the way we did it now, I mean, it was it was good for community engagement because we employed a lot of people. It was a lot of manually getting stuff, you know, up to the Soviet project. So, I think we had up to 40 or 50 people from the Tupac village employed there. >> Mhm. The village called Tupac. >> Yeah, Tupac something. I I don't know what it is. Yeah, I was like, "Oh, interesting." >> It's a fan base, maybe. I'll look it up. Uh, I actually didn't know that. What is the How How many holes do you want to do? What's the average depth? >> Three or four holes to probably 4 or 500 meters. like we're not going to stop a hole if um you know it's well mineralized um or otherwise interesting. Um but the rigs the these are manportable rigs. Interestingly, I've used these same rigs in Yukon um because they were designed to be manportable or broken down into small enough bits that you could use a lighter weight helicopter to move them. Uh you know cuz you know that the the rigs we were using at Fireweight uh in Heli program there were were pretty beefy rigs. So, you need a pretty beefy helicopter to move the the heavy bits of it. Whereas these rigs, you know, the the heaviest bits of it can still be moved by like a u a huge 500, like a much lighter helicopter. Um, where was I going with this? Anyway, so the point is we're not going to go like super deep. You know, even if the hole was well mineralized at 500 600 m, that may be tapping out the drill rig. Um I mean look if it's still well minimalized that deep man that's a great problem to have. Um but we'll see. >> First time you're drilling there though or like in the history of the company, right? >> The history of the project. Yeah. >> Yeah. Um what is um I was just thinking how how long is it going to take you to drill that first hole and then and then get it to market because I was trying to I was trying to understand how ground conditions might be and and what kind of you know drilling efficiencies you might get per day. >> I would say it's probably 3 weeks per hole. Um, so if we start it next week, uh, maybe done it at October 15th or November 15th, something like that. >> Yeah. >> Um, and then if we get results inside of a month, that would be great. So, look, I think there's >> a chance, you know, we have something to say. I mean, there's a, you know, chance, uh, you know, I I am a fan of, um, and I, honestly, I hope it's not speaking out of turn because I haven't talked to Graeme about this, but I I I am a fan of talking about visuals and it's you have to be careful there because you can you can be very misleading, right? And and I don't think you want to be misleading. So I think you want to really stress the uncertainty that goes from visuals to assays, but at the same time if you have a hit or even a not hit or something like that, that's a that's a long time uh to be in possession of material information and not, you know, release it on on the ASX. I think if you if you if something material happens, you have 3 days to get it out, right? Um so they they're basically forced to do visuals. Um, so, you know, I don't I see the value of both. I I certainly see the value of like we're not going to talk about it until um, you know, we have the full assays. Um, you know, at Fireweed, we liked the approach of, you know, every time we had a news release during the program, we would talk about the drill holes we completed to date and we had a very simple description of the holes, right? like a, you know, wide mineralized zone encountered. It might have been like only that, right? Um, so people knew what to what holes had hit and missed and at least it cleared the air on the misses completely, right? You know, very quickly. Um, but yeah, so I guess there's a possibility that we have something to say sooner rather than later. Um, certainly hoping we do, right? >> But in terms of assays then whole by whole, does that make sense? I guess. Yeah. You know, you know, I guess there's if there's three weeks between them, it might just end up being that way, right? >> Yeah. >> But you should still be able to get it out before the end of the year, at least one hole. Just looking at >> Hope. I hope so. Yeah. I I don't know what the status of labs are in in Peru, but but I would think that's possible. >> Um, are there a lot of labs where you are, or would you have to >> Well, I mean, we're not that far from uh Lima, right? like it's, you know, I mean, I guess actually as the crow flies, there's kind of two roads on Sylvia and and our access is through the north one, which I think requires us to go quite a bit further north before coming back around. >> Um, but um, all the same, even if it's a couple days to the lab, that's not the that's not the major bottleneck, right? >> It's not two weeks to get to the lab. >> How would you define success from this program? I mean, it's first pass your program. So are you looking for minimums like minimum grades width geometry something else that you want to see in in the core here? >> Yeah. Um um so you know there was a trench across this this scarn outcrop at Sylvia in the valley there. Uh and across the samples across this trench averaged uh 1.9 g gold and8% copper over 46 m of trenching. Right. Um I would be delighted to get that in a drill hole. Absolutely. tickle pink to get that in a drill. Right? So, there are a variety of reasons that a trench can misrepresent what's underneath higher or lower geological variability, right? Um, you can have mechanical enrichment of the gold or something like that, you know, or or supergene enrichment or something of the copper. Like there's a whole variety of reasons it could be overstated or understated. Um, we we'd like to see, you know, extensive scar mineralization. We'd like to see grades that are um encouraging. There's definitely not been enough geoysics done in this project. The reason we're jumping into drilling is exactly because of that that you know sample, you know, the trench across uh this um this outcrop that's compelling enough that it felt like we should put some holes into this, right? Um you know, if we get something that's like I don't know what the grade width is, but but you know, it seems to hold up to those sort of 40ish meter thickness. Um, and we're seeing at least spotty bits of good copper and good gold. It may not be all the way across it, but we're seeing little bits of it that are good. Um, that to me is encouraging, right? Cuz we don't know how far we are from the source intrusion. We do not know if this is the best part of the scar system. Um, so what I want to see is like, okay, it looks to be a reasonable size SCAR system and it is at least locally carrying great. I that I think is a major victory. Um, the market of course wants to see bonanza, right? Uh, hey, look, if we hit that in our first drill program, uh, we'll we'll act like we knew it was going to happen, even though of course we didn't, right? Um, it that would be a great outcome. But yeah, I think I think um we're definitely I don't know how it could be so bad that we wouldn't still come back here with some geoysics. Um, but I think anything that's, you know, if we get any sort of intersections of 10 m of plus of of good grade, I'd be like, "Okay, all right. No, this is this is real, right? We do we may not be at the guts of it, but this is real." >> Could it be good enough that you're like, I want to spin it out. This needs to be its own company raising its own capital. >> Yeah, that's actually been a big discussion is do we do we spin this out? Um I I think that's definitely a measure twice cut once situation. Um you know, we've actually recently acquired some ground in between Sylvia and I woke up. Amazingly, they're close enough and the ground was open um for us to uh connect them, which which is good because it allows you to under some laws consider them the same project, right? Um which is which is useful if one's in production, the other's not. Um, so that that'd be a reason to not spin it out cuz then you've lost that that edge. Uh, but it is different markets. One's a mature, you know, progressing to production zinc project. Another is a expiration, you know, big riskreward story, you know, copper gold, right? So I can certainly and I think likely different suitors for each. >> Yeah, that's kind of where I was coming from with this. And again, it's results dependent, I suppose. I mean, if if there's no major grade there, it might make it tough for that company to raise capital on its own. So you might still need to push it a bit forward. Why why was it never drilled? I mean, you say you're going to do the first drill program on the project ever. How come? So, it's I mean it's it's pretty um rugged remote terrain, right? I don't think there've been a lot of prospecting done there. Um Rio had done some mapping there. Uh Rio, sorry, not Rio. Uh BHP had done some mapping there. Um they had done some geoysics. They hadn't really sampled this outcrop um that we did. Um so it, you know, they were looking for an antimina. Uh the intrusions they found here as I understand were the were the wrong age. So even though it was the right limestone they found the wrong age intrusion. So they weren't they became less interested. You know at the end of the day this was part of a big regional program for BHP. So you have to you can't keep every bit of ground. You just can't right like like a a big regional program. you really need to pick where you're going to focus cuz you can't do focused work on, you know, uh 5,000 km or something like that, right? U I don't know if it was that big, but you know, you know my point. So, um they gave it up, right? And and and we got it pretty cheap. And you know, the the more detailed work that that the Tinka team did, um has identified something material. And I think there's a couple there's like different target areas each one which have different interest that seems quite likely that there's a buried intrusion there and it could be a a pfrey target there as well right um you know this is this is the Andes you know it's a good reason to think there could be a a good pfrey in the area right doesn't mean there is um so you know we we see there's more work to be done for sure um but you when we looked at it um you know I think of like all sorts of companies that have drilled you know good discoveries based on an outcrop that's a pretty good place to start you know the reality is that we're increasingly in a world where you're not starting with a good outcrop >> right because the good outcrops unless there's something they're really hard to get to um you know dangerous um or something like that or or have just been revealed because of ice retreat or something like that. Um there's not a lot of screaming outcrops just sitting out there begging to be drilled, right? Um so more and more, you know, companies are not rushing into these drill programs because they can't. They've got, you know, deepseeing geochemistry and geoysics, etc. to do to really figure out what their target should even be. Um like we have some idea where this buried intrusion is here. Um but I can't I can't go drilling it. We have we like some idea. It's still a needle in a hay sack even for something as big as an intrusion. Right. >> Yeah. >> So you know there needs to be some IP or something there to to figure out where would we even target that drill hole? How deep are we targeting is here? What type of drill do we bring in? Could we do it with these little drills or do we have to bring in something beefy? Right. So, I think um we're lucky, we feel very lucky that at least our first drill program here, we've got some stuff at surface um that that runs really well, right? So, um you know, and that it seems to be a gold dominant system, right? You've you've got up to up to an ounce of gold and and grab samples, right? So, it should be interesting. >> What's elevation here again? So 4,500 I want to say around uh Sylvia I mean give or take right it's in a pretty um good size valley there so you know top or bottom I'm not sure what the difference is but 4500ish >> what about Ika >> similar yeah I want to say IA is about the plateau I want to say is about 4,000 to 4,300ish >> when are you >> I mean am I am I exactly right there no but it's about that >> no that's fine I'm ballpark is fine. Um, why not drill them at the same time? >> Oh, you mean IA? >> Yeah, right. We're we're not ready. We don't you know, first off, we got a lot of desktop studies to do at Iwoka to understand exactly what we want to do and where. Um, I am going from first principles on Iawoka. Um, and it's and it's not out of a lack of respect for the work that's been done, but I just think sometimes you have to go back to the beginning and say, "Let's let's rebuild our our case here. Uh, let's let's make sure we understand this." Um, and they're on board for that. Second, more important reason is we got to redo our community agreements, right? And that's that's starting really the effort on that starting reasonably soon. But I wouldn't expect those to be signed until you know uh Q2 2026, right? >> Um >> but I mean still because you said I world is not seasonal. So you could be drilling this in in our summer their winter. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Uh that's not going to cost you more. >> No. No. No, no. I was there and I'm in August. Um and it was um they were remarking on how there was snow the day before. Like that was a big deal and it it was gone by the time we got there. In fact, it was probably gone by that afternoon. It is it is not like it's not high enough altitude given how far how close the equator it is to have, you know, material snowfall. Um it was, you know, I had a light jacket on while touring in the dead of in the dead of winter, right? Switching gears here maybe a little bit, but you've also recently acquired a 5% carried interest in a company that holds a gold project in Saudi Arabia. Um, kind of out of the I don't know, out of the I wouldn't have expected it when I have it on my thinking. >> Yeah. Well, what the thinking was and this this was before, you know, Michael and I approached Tinka. Um Graeme was in Riad for uh a conference uh and I think met some locals who wanted to get involved in a tender process to bid on a gold project in in um Saudi Arabia. And they they lacked the expertise to do it. And so they effectively contracted Tinka to um pick the project they bid on uh and help them design the program to be run on it. So, uh, I understand why Graham did it. He wouldn't do it again now because at that point, Tinka was in a very tough spot. They needed the money. This was paying. This helped keep, you know, bring money into Tinka. It wasn't a lot. It was 250 US a year, I want to say, right? But it was something. And and, you know, he otherwise might have had to lay off his geological workers or, you know, team, right? So, this is like, okay, well, it keeps them busy. It means they're costneutral. um they can do you know the mapping and everything for the stuff in Saudi and and so for Tinka it was a little bit of money coming in and it carried interest in the project right so it made sense at the time uh and and we're not going to go dropping or anything like that we're going to we're going to keep our um involvement there it is a super low bandwidth thing for us to do right um which is why Graham took it on but but would I do it again now no I wouldn't I don't think it it makes sense it made sense in the context text of where Tinker was at the time. >> So, is it going to cost you any money, time, effort, or anything else to manage it at all? >> No. No. In fact, it brings money in, right? So, um will uh until we stop being carried, which I don't remember exactly what the threshold is there, it's still a few years out yet. Um it doesn't cost us anything. >> And you're also then I'm assuming you're not planning anymore of of of this kind of deals anymore. You're just going to focus on what you have at Iowa and and Sylvia, I'm assuming. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I mean, never say never, right? Like I think um something sometimes sometimes things just land on your lap and you're like, "Oh, gez, we should do this." Right? You know, um did did Far need a tungsten project? No. Right. But that that turned out to be a pretty good move, right? So, um you you got to be opportunistic and you got to say, "Okay, what is the value in this being in Tinka? and is there something specific about Tinka that makes this project more valuable in this company than another company? And if something like that landed on our lap, then yeah, we jump on it, right? We're not actively looking. Um, but we're always open-minded. >> Couple of housekeeping notes here, GNA. What do you think that's going to be? Do you have a a rough estimate of where you want it? Um, yeah. um management salaries plus what dimminimous rent and and bookkeeping and that sort of stuff. Uh I want to say it's about a million US a year. >> Okay. That include marketing? >> No. No. I would say marketing. This is actually we're having an open discussion right now, but what do we want to spend on marketing? Um um I want a pencil in about a half million a year. Um I don't I don't know if that's too much or or not enough, right? Like we spent I've spent significantly more than that before. Um you know, marketing it's very easy to waste money. Um but when a market's hot, marketing is more effective. That's just the reality, right? You know, and in a bad market, um none of your marketing partners have stroke. None of them. They can't do anything for you, right? It's like, I don't know. Pay them if you want. That's probably not doing you much good. Um, in a hot market, even the least competent marketing partners can generate something often, right? Cuz it's just eyeballs, eyeballs, eyeballs. When when Joe Retail, you know, Joe Main Street Retail is is talking about needing to buy a zinc company, um, you know, then then anything that gets be your name out there is good, right? So, I don't think we're there yet. Um, but I do think we need to carefully, you know, increase our marketing spend. >> What do you want to spend it on? Are you thinking, um, kind of a similar mixes to what you were doing at at Fireweed? Are you going to change something, bring something new in? >> Yeah, pretty similar mix, right? I think um, a bit more digital material, videos, etc. Um, you know, webinars, stuff like that. Um, a bit more travel. Well, I I think we're lucky that um Graeme and I and and even Michael and Bit can divide and conquer a bit the jurisdictions. Um I'm able to travel for a couple companies now, which helps cuts the cost, right? Um if you'll if you'll be at Deutsche Gold Messa, um I I'll probably be presenting for two companies, right? So that's that's um and then I'm lucky that that Will Slack from Enduro will be there to take the Enduro meetings and I'll probably take the Tinkan meetings. Um, so there's ways to kind of cut down there. Um, but yeah, it's like I don't, you know, no big aggressive newsletter campaigns or, you know, digital blasts or anything like that planned. I I I have done those in the past and at the time I didn't know. I I didn't realize how hot money it was, right? And and I'm, you know, I don't feel bad. We we we didn't say anything misleading or anything like that, right? But um, you we talk about shareholder quality. Sometimes if you if you really try to overspend on marketing, a quick uh chart move can be your own worst enemy because you know your your long and loyal shareholders will sell because it's too much and then you have to convince them to buy back and they often won't. They've gone on to something else, right? you know, you if if you doubled by going up 2%, you know, every, you know, every day for 2 months or whatever, um, you probably wouldn't shake out any of those loyal shareholders. But if you go up like if you double in like 2 days on no news, a lot of those people will flake out, right? And why not, right? It's probably how I would trade it. >> More travel. Is that you speaking or does the wife just want to have you out the house again? in a while. I'm I'm I'm trying to, you know, jeez at my I don't know what year it was that I did the most travel, but it was like 120 days on the road. Um I am not aiming for that. I I I I don't think that was valuable. Um although I was hitting a lot of different things like you know there's there is retail marketing, there is engaging with funds, there is um um you know I had gone to Japan and China a few times to engage with corporates there which is a bit of a different beast. Um, but I think a lot of with the company you have to frontload it. You know, maybe this year is going to be a bit more and then we kind of come down afterwards cuz you can follow up with people more often on Zoom. But but I think that it is tough to make a meaningful connection with someone on Zoom when it's your first time meeting them. You know, it's it's I've heard the expression it t it takes three touches to make someone a contact. Um, and I don't think digital touches count much, >> right? I I don't I don't don't think they do. I think you need to meet them in person a couple times at least for them to feel like they know you and I think them feeling like they know you and legitimately knowing you makes their purchasing decision easier. >> Well, well, having seen um those fancy shoes of yours a couple of times, I feel like I know you. So, if that's any feedback, >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Impulse bought in Portugal. Yeah. Do you can you talk to me maybe a little bit about your um and I don't know if you can or not. So um about your relationship with the Blundines? I mean are they a potential is there a synergy here? Would they would they you know go back to doing something with you again? How did that kind of develop once you left Fireweed? >> Yeah, I mean I still I still talk to Adam occasionally. I talk to Harry Lundine more um at the Brahma Fund. Um, you know, I think that um I mean I would say time heals all wounds. It wasn't really that much of a wound. Like I understood that um there was going to be a change anyways, right? So um yeah, look, one of the things for sure is that um you it even if I had like some sort of um insane grudge, right? Like does that serve me or does that serve the company? Um and it would not, right? And so you have to, you know, recognize that business is business. Um, and you want to succeed maximally over your entire career, which means not burning any bridges and particularly not burning any bridges for anything as petty as, you know, having your nose at a joint about something, right? So um >> yeah I can I can see you know that this is um certainly their success at at Sylvia you know um even Ioka you know this this is um could be potentially interesting project for them both as investors and you know acquirers right so um you always keep the communication lines open you know and I mean enough that um I'm going to when I'm going to to DGM um jumping in on London first but also going to Stockholm and catching up with some of the the network there that I built when I was, you know, working for a London company. Um, and I think it's still still a good reception when I'm there. >> Are you going to ask him to sign the book? >> It's already signed. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, Robert uh Yeah. Yeah. I actually got my book directly from him, so he signed it. Yeah. No need. >> What's the most uh I'm about to let you go because I know you almost have to run here. What's the most favorite criticism of Tinka that you've heard since you joined the company? Hm. Um, you know, I think people were right that the company was a bit listless, right, without direction. Um, I think it was fair that, you know, it should have been dealt with. I mean, sentient end of fund was was not a surprise, right? This was a known thing for years and years and years, right? Like this is like the end of fund date, right? Um, these things are published. Um, could have been dealt with, right? And I mean, you know, like if there's no takers for it, there's no takers for it. But, um, that's tough, right? Like a, you know, whenever a company with legitimate asset has that type of chart over multiple years, I think that it is fair to ask like or to say that something was done wrong. >> Um, you know, I I think Graham is a tremendous geologist. He is he is a tremendous geologist and his his expertise uh has been demonstrated time and time again and the success they've had at Iowa. Look at the resource there. I don't think that that is you know up for debate. Um he knows he's not a market guy and he knows he's not a mindbuilder. Um you know so it's it's recognizing those blind spots and bringing in help right and I think that's the board's made the right decision. They they've brought in that help. >> What's the most fair criticism of me? What do you wish I uh I would have asked or done differently? Forgetting something to ask or something to cover here. >> Oh, most fair criticisms of you. Um yeah, jeez, I don't know. Um >> there's too many. You pull up a list like in the cartoons. >> We're both wearing the sweaters, right? So I I didn't wear my uh beige one, but um maybe your sweater's too tight. Is that is that a fair criticism? >> That's fair. No, that is fair. Um Randon, thank you so much. you know, I it's it's um I guess you know, the question is you're you're doing a good job on um you know, highlighting uh conflicts of interest, etc. Right. Um and I guess it's it's an open question. Does your audience even want a deeper dive on geology and technical stuff, which is probably out of your depth, right? And and I I do see people interview asking questions that are out of their depth, right? And it's like a because they asked a tough question, but if they can't understand the answer, what's the point? Clearly, someone's asked them that question. I mean, like I think you solicit questions in advance of this, right? >> Partly um I mean the option is there so people can go to resource.com at the bottom of the page there's an announcement of of the next interviews and people can can uh you know put in put in questions that they might want to ask. I do like doing deeper dives on on geology and don't get me wrong, I'm out I've been out of my depth throughout this conversation. I had to spend at least an hour in this in the mirror pretending that I know what I'm talking about and it happens in geology too. U but but at least uh not understanding everything kind of I suppose brings it closer because I can you know I get to ask questions and to try to actually understand it myself and if if I'm understanding and 99% of people are. Uh so we we I'd love to do that. I mean if if we can get Graham on and and and yourself and talk through everything, you know, a geo deep dive might be might be helpful. >> Yeah, I think particularly if there's some success or I mean whatever the outcome at at Sylvia, I think it'd be great to talk about the rationale of the program and the results and and uh what it means. >> Yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for doing this, Brandon. Really appreciate your time and hopefully speak to you again soon. >> Yeah. Thanks very much. >> And as always, thanks to everyone for watching Resource Talks. I have a couple of more things to say, though. The fact that this company was interviewed here today does not mean that they are necessarily a good or a bad company. I'm not here to endorse nor attack anyone. I am simply here to ask some questions. 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Zinc, Silver, and Tin in 1 Exploration Company | Tinka Resources Interview
Summary
Transcript
Today on a CEO barbecue, we're looking for everything really, including the meaning of life, but mostly zinc, silver, copper, and gold in Peru together with Tena Resources. If you want a bulletpoint summary of this and all the other CEO barbecues in your inbox once a week, go to resourcealks.com and subscribe to our free newsletter. Now, although the company you're about to hear from has not paid us for the production of this interview, you should still not treat this video as research. Research is conducted by reading the company's official filings, which you can find on zedplus.ca. In any case, please only watch this if you absolutely know what you're doing. This interview is intended only for experienced junior mining speculators because mineral exploration, development, and mining is an extremely tough business where failure is the norm and should be the expectation. This is going to be a conversation that is general and impersonal in nature and it is also going to contain forwardlooking statements. I am not a licensed financial adviser and my business sells content producing services which also makes me biased. Although this company has not paid for the production of this interview, it doesn't mean they won't become a client in the future. They might. So before continuing on, please talk to an independent investment advisor with a good long-term track record because your capital might be at risk. If you're not 100% sure you understand 100% of the disclaimers I just showed you, please go to the last section of this video and do not consume this content unless you fully understand and agree with everything said therein. That all said, Tinka is, as I indicated, a poly metallic story. It's focused on advancing the Iawa project in the Pasco region of Peru, where they're currently getting ready to drill a gold copper target about 100 km south of Antameina. IKA is an advanced stage asset where a 2024 resource outlined a large zinc system with additional tenant silver zones and that's why I call it a poly metallic story. So, um, many different metals in there that we'll talk about, of course, later on. The zing zone came in at just under 60 million tons of zinc, spread almost 50/50 between indicated and inferred at respectively 5.8% and 4.2% average grade. The 10 zone shows just under 15 million tons though mostly in inferred with both average grades at around call it 75%. And again, there was a smaller silver resource on top of that as well. The 2024 PA suggests a 21-year underground operation with a post tax NPV8 of $434 million US and a 26% IRRa on the 382 million initial capex which the study says can be paid back in just under 3 years. Though to be fair, the prices used for that study are rather low relative to where the metal prices are today. Of course, these economics are preliminary in nature, hence the PA and uh they rely on other assumptions such as metallergical recovery, smelter terms, weighted average cost of capital and so on. So, do keep that in mind. But I'll also be asking more about this PA and the plans for potentially growing it from here on out as well as what the risks and challenges in that process might be later on in the conversation. Now, what caught my eye and why this interview is happening in the first place is because Brandon McDonald, whom I've known for a couple of years now, he um he led Fireweed Zinc at the time. So, Fireweed Zinc, how the time flies, but so he led uh Fireweed Zinc at the time and he's uh he's the one who got the Lundines into that story. And so, about a month and a half ago, him and Michael her, who is the um ex CFO of Adriatic Metals, joined the board at Tena. They did a five for one share consolidation and also closed an over 14 million Canadian dollar financing. So that's kind of the the thing that got it on my radar. Why that's happening and what's really going on is hopefully again something Brandon will be telling me more about later on in the conversation. Tenka is listed as TK on the TSX Ventures Exchange where the average 3-mon volume is about 200,000 shares though a recent uptake in trading has the 10day volume at about 320,000. Stock's 52-W week high is 62 cents and its 52-we low is 15. Pretty aggressive run on some of the last trading sessions. Has Tena at around 70 million Canadians in market cap. And with just over 133.6 million shares outstanding today, this is a 54 cent stock with a 50 and a 200 day moving average at respectively 37 and 31.5 cents, which means the stock is now trading well above both of them. And so in in a positive upward momentum, moving on to the share structure, I see 27.7 million warrants, most of which at 40 cents and expiring in October of 2029. And there's a small chunk that expires next summer with a 75 cent strike price as well. Just over 8 million options, most of which also at 40 cents, but they don't expire until late 2030. And there are still some options about a million and a half that expire next summer as well, but they're not in the money before 125. All in all, the number of fully diluted shares is just under 170 million, meaning an increase of about 27% in shares outstanding could happen if all the dilutive securities get exercised, which would then result in about a 21% ownership dilution if, and that's always a big if, of course, but if all the dilutive securities get exercised. And of course, none of this accounts for potential dilution down the road, which is not unlikely given that this is a pre-revenue company that operates in a very capital intensive industry. Talking about capital, there is um well, this is actually where I'd normally go over the latest financial statement, but given that the company just did a share consolidation as well as a you know big capital raise and is is essentially under under new leadership, I don't think the latest financial statement which is from June 30, 2025 will be entirely representative. But the more important part is that they've got roughly 15 million Canadian in cash right now and there's no long-term nor short-term debt. The 9-month operating expense were recorded at just under a million with the largest part being salaries, director and officer uh compensation combined, professional fees too combined on top of that. And again, what the GNA will be from here on out, how much they'll spend on marketing and how much on drilling and so on, as well as how executive compensation is going to be determined is hopefully something I can uh get more color on later on in this conversation. And as always, I would like to remind you to be cautious. Your capital may be at risk. Please visit teterplus.ca CA to view the company's financials for yourself. Now, for this to actually become a conversation, I'll have to shut up already and Brandon, I'll give you the word here. But first of all, thank you for sitting down with me today. >> Yeah, thanks. It's been uh it's been a while since I formally came on. >> It has been. I've been seeing you um at conferences and then you're always telling me that I should, you know, watch this space. You're going to see what's coming. And uh in a sense, I thought you were done with Zinc, but it seems like Zinc's not done with you. Uh so what's uh what's going on? What's your what's your involvement here with the Tinker story? Uh because you call it a corporate reorganization, I believe, but is it is it an activist move or why are you you and and her getting involved and and why now? Yeah, I mean uh not a coincidence that that her and I both coming from um zinc, you know, he you know, Adriatic was probably more silver than zinc, but nonetheless, you know, still pretty pretty uh involved in the zinc space. Um when the the bid came in from Dundy Precious for Adriatic, uh Michael reached out and you know said to me, I mean reached out, we chat all the time, but you know he he said to me like why aren't we can we do something with Tinka? You know we recognized that um they were in a pretty rough spot at at that time. They're third largest shareholder which was a pretty substantial block was a private equity fund called Sentient. uh their fund was at end of life. They were in redemption period and they were you know for lack of a better way out they were aggressively selling their position into the market. Um and of course when you know someone's an insider and they're doing that it is entirely transparent what is happening right so unsurprisingly a lot of people pulled their bids thinking that that Sunday would have to hit them at a lower price and that's exactly what happened. So, you know, pre-conolidation, uh, they effectively got sold down from 134 cents to as low as 3 1/2. You know, the final day, Sentient dumped 72 million shares, I want to say, into the market, right? So, it's pretty pretty ruthless. Um but um you know it it left uh you know a company with a really great project um in a pretty challenging position like with a with a really low valuation yet without the confidence of the market. Um, so you know, Michael and I gathered some backers who had backed me at Fireweed and him at Adriatic and and put together a book and approached the Tinka board. Um, I I had known Grant Carman, the CEO there for for quite some time. Um, and we approached them and said, "Look, we've got at least 10 million in backing. Uh, we want to join the board and and we can inject this capital into there and this is what we want to see and um, would you be interested?" and and they said yes. Right. So it was I would say it was pretty activist. It was definitely not a situation where we joined the board and then went looking for money. We actually had the money with us to approach them. Uh so it was a different situation. I'd never done that before, you know, and obviously the capital that backed us understood that the two of us knew a lot about zinc projects globally and they believed us when when we said that this was a real standout. uh you know for me personally when Fireweed launched you know went public in 2017 the the gold standard for zinc Jr. in terms of valuation was Tinko, right? That was always the peer on our peer chart that we wanted to achieve the relative valuation of. um you know they were doing great and and um 2018 hit the the trade wars were kicked off and like us they were hammered and you know I think the difference was is the fire we'd managed to get our feet back underneath us uh in large part because we got the Lundines help um and you know Dinka couldn't and then that's true of a lot of different zinc juniors who were riding high in 2017 2018 um but those other Zinc juniors didn't really have the quality project that we saw here. Uh so let's put us where we are now, right? Uh you know, I'm um exec chair. Um which means that I'm involved dayto-day. Uh I try to stay um out of operations unless I'm asked, right? You know, I don't I don't want to be a backseat driver on the minutia. That is really still Graham, the CEO's responsibility. Um, but I'm there to really do more heavy lifting on capital markets and strategy, etc. Um, which was an area that I think they recognized was was a shortcoming. >> So, you you're going to be on a lot of podcasts then. >> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You'll you'll never get rid of me. >> Um, that works well for me. You don't you don't currently have any other executive report. Well, you do actually with uh commander. >> Yeah. Well, commander now in Duro. Uh, I'm chairman there, but I'm not an executive chair there. >> Right. And so that, you know, people ask me what's the difference? And and I guess, you know, I talk to to Rob and Will at at Enduro um almost daily, right? But there's very little that gets left on my plate, right? At the at the end of the day, I'm non-exec um you know, I I provide them with the guidance and help they need and then they go and execute. U with Tinka, I'm a bit more involved, right? So, I would actually um take some stuff on and actually get it done, right? And and and take it fully off Graham's >> plate. That's you say capital market. So, so I suppose yeah, telling the story is part of that. Um raising capital sort of heavy lifting would still will still fall on you eventually when you have to do that. Is that kind of what your day-to-day is going to look like? Just essentially talking to people hopefully a little less annoying than myself. >> Yeah. Yeah. Look, you man, you haven't met some of the shareholders we deal with if you think you're on the more annoying end of the spectrum, but um it's it's a lot of that. Yeah. You know, helping guide um the strategy um then communicating it, right? You know, it's you got to have a good strategy and then you got to communicate that strategy and and convince people to buy in. >> Yeah. skin in the game. You as um newcomer to the story wouldn't have had any founder shares. Um but how many shares do you own right now? And what's the average price you've paid for these shares? >> Um I put in $250,000 into the financing. Um I guess post roll back that is a 27 12 cent share price. So So whatever that math brings me to. Is that is that just under uh uh just under a million or just over a million? I don't know what the math is. Something like that. >> Oh, that's fair. >> I should probably know that. >> But um and then I uh have a pretty, you know, one of our asks was a pretty good grant of options for joining. Um so I have probably about 2 million options as well. >> Oh, okay. Do you plan to increase your position in the market or or future financings and and and do you have kind of a target as to how exposed or how much exposure you want to have to teno or Yeah. How do how do you think about that? >> Yeah, I don't know if there's a target, you know, um with both, you know, enduro I'm about $200,000 deep as well and and so um uh tank I'm about $250,000 deeper. So slightly more. or it's a slightly less speculative play. Um maybe maybe not quite the the riskreward ratio or or you know less risk you know but um that that seems to me be about the bite right bite size given my personal net worth right now. Um I would you know definitely continue to follow on in additional financings as I did with fireweed. um putting down another $200,000 might uh attract the uh hostility of my wife. We we'll see. Um you have to be a little bit prudent. Um but I think yeah look definitely continuing and and I think opportunistically in the market if there's some sort of dislocation, right? like you think you know that that sentient selling was a great example of a entirely irrational dislocation like nothing to do with the project or anything or the jurisdiction or whatever right it's just a wholly irrational repricing um you know I think everyone needs to be aware that that or watch out for those sort of things and and you know pick it up when you can >> people who bought at the bottom there are sitting on a triple now already right you know 5 months later >> just When your wife thought Zinc was done with you, Zinc pulls you back in. Um, you might have to say that in an accent, but it wouldn't be fair because I'm actually stealing your joke. Um, what is the uh what's the rest of the insider ownership here from the perspective of directors and officers? Who owns what? >> Yeah. Um, Michael put in about 250,000 uh as well into the financing. Uh Graham put in I want to say under half that but still a a good amount. Um you know there there is hasn't been a major inside block. I mean this company has been around for a while. Um and I don't think anyone was there during the formation. Um so you know it's been you know I recognize you know probably a little underheld by management. Right. Well, given that what would what would I put you then in in total in terms of percentage is what I'm thinking because given that you just joined you know or have an idea as to where the the rest of the stock is is what I'm thinking. Do do you how what percentage of of the company do you think is in what people are calling you know strong hands? And I don't like that term but I'm just thinking about how much of the stock can you track essentially? Oh, you know, we put um um of the 40% of the stock is the recent financing basically, right? Um and that was that was our list very carefully curated. There is uh of that 14 million maybe 500,000 maybe slightly more is kind of randos or not randos but like people who weren't with us when we when we approached them and you know we're not you know I'm not going to approach someone with a bunch of you know and then and then tie my reputation and my own capital uh to a company when I know I'm bringing in bad shareholders, right? Um, so you know there's there's some bigname funds in there who normally have much much larger bite sizes uh and some high net worths who you know backed me extensively at fireweight that I know are good shareholders. You know that that was a lesson um that was difficult to learn. you know, fireweed is my first time in the big chair, so to speak. And then there was a lot of tough lessons there and and I think one that I really learned was that um shareholder quality is something that is so hard to identify and virtually impossible for a you know retail investor to spot uh because you just don't you you can't see the share registry, right? But um it's tough, you know, a bad shareholder registry and you can fight that, you know, you can fight those shareholders every step of the way on the way up, right? Um >> you know, and we we know that, you know, for example, um you know, we're we're coming into a company that's down substantially. When we announced the financing and a consolidation, you know, we turned over 10% of the stock in a week. A lot of people were uh you know unsurprisingly you know if you're down 80% you see you're getting you know rolled back a lot of people just threw in the towel right you know um I wish they had taken a closer look at the plan and and our strategy but you know we we we know who who did most of the buying right so we know it's in good hands um but that's you know kind of how you expect to to go with these things you know it's never it's never a uh low liquidity ride to the top, there's always going to be sellers and and I think the the tighter you can control the share registry um you know the easier it's going to be. >> You were essentially looking for serious investors with deep pockets which um makes sense that you didn't call me then in that case. I'm not going to take it personally though. >> How's uh talking about this? How's the relationship with Nexa and Buenov and now after kind of the the rest restructuring here because I think they they didn't come in on that financing or they they did. So, so yeah, what's the what's the state of those? >> So, so they didn't um which was fine, right? Um you know, they they both had individual circumstances and um they still have representatives on the board. Um we're very close with them. um with neither was it a indictment that they didn't you know in fact with one of them I you know sat down with them over lunch and made it pretty clear that that you decide and and don't feel stressed about it which is to say that um if you know don't feel like they need to support the company because you know we had we had all the orders there in fact we had 35 million in orders within 2 days of announcement right so um their order was not the difference between us succeeding in the financing or not or being able to get the drone program done or not. Um you know I think there's close personal relationships with these companies and the Tinker management team in particular Graham and so I think you know their support and the financing that was launched at the end of last year um had a lot to do with wanting to support the company and wanting to support Graham. Um, you know, I think they felt maybe a little bit less pressure, right? Um, so I think it's great. They're they're they're strong partners. They bring a lot of local knowledge. Um, you know, a lot of uh strategic value. Um, and it's and it's two very tight blocks. So I think they've been diluted down to maybe 13 14% now, right? But that's that's effectively a 30% block, you know, between the two of them that's going nowhere. um another 40% from our new shareholders. That's mostly, you know, not going to go anywhere, right? So, slowly by surely whittle away the the free float. >> We'll definitely talk about um what you're going to do with that money, when the next time you're going to be raising, how you going to do that. Uh I do have it on my list here. We'll get to it. Uh just still doing the the smell test here, if you will. Um royalties, what's the royalty situation? And do any insiders personally own a royalty on any of these projects? >> No. So, so the um Iowa project has a royalty that can be purchased outright. Um that is owed to a couple gentlemen who helped source the project uh for Tinka way back in the day. Um now, um the Sylvia project has a royalty due to BHP because that's where we got it from in 2021. So BHP was had done a large regional program looking for Antiminaike deposits. Um the Sylvia ground was some of the ground they owned. Uh they were going to let it lapse. Um they were focusing their priorities elsewhere and so they came to Tinka and said like look you pay the renewal and give us a royalty it's yours. Right. So it was a very very low purchase price for for a pretty compelling target which was subsequently identified. >> Mhm. Still within our smell test and still talking about incentives. How do you look at spending money in the future and how is specifically executive and director compensation going to be structured as in uh what are your KPIs for determining it going to be? >> Yeah, you know, we don't have KPIs in place yet. I'll be completely honest with you, right? So, I think part of what I'm trying to do is um get get this running like a uh$100 or $200 million company, right? Um because I believe we'll get there. Um now you don't you want to rightsize your bureaucracy and procedures in a company. You want to be very careful about uh you know loading a company with really involved procedures um when it doesn't have the market cap or spend to justify that right because it just grinds everything to a halt. need, you know, part of the power of a say $5 million junior is extremely nimble and fast decisions, right? You know, the ability to to pivot on a dime. Um, as you get bigger, uh, you recognize those, you know, and you got an actual going concern and and things to to do and a and a long-term plan, you got to be a little more procedure driven with or, you know, within that that nimleness. Um so your KPIs what was the other was specifically question sorry >> how do you think about spending money in the future as in how are you going to compensate um you know executives and board member are you going to have a salary what is that going to look like >> yeah so um my salary is 150 CAD uh I don't have any access to bonus or anything like that um that's a reflection of of part-time right so uh my base salary was about twice that at at fireweed plus I had a you know significant and uh cash bonus potential every year. Uh I didn't feel I needed that here. I I wanted it I wanted the salary to reflect that um I wanted something like cuz I'm exec but nice and thankfully you know I cashed out a fired with enough that um I didn't you know need to be hyperfixated on you know getting the most salary possible. You know, it was it was when I joined Fire just the uh you know, every penny literally we had to our name we put into that company, right? So, I had a lot of anxiety about what my salary was cuz that was how I lived and and you know, that was in a very expensive town. Um you know, I I feel great privilege now that I don't have to look over my shoulder like that anymore. Um >> so, um yeah, and you know, Graham's on the same salary was before. We haven't we haven't made any adjustments there. Um and we're you know have a modest uh director's fees. Um I think we're going to have a more uh structured approach uh in terms of KPIs and salaries and benchmarking etc. uh through the comp committee put in place over the next sort of 6 to 8 months. um and also building up to a a structured um medium and long-term budgeting process. >> Do you think you're going to make any more changes in in the meantime? Like get a new CEO or anything like that? Is that is that the intention or what kind of you know big changes do you want to make at at kind of the corporate level if you will? >> I think we got to see how this goes, right? Um, you know, part of what what Michael and I really felt was that, um, they were stuck in an exploration loop at Iawoka. Um, and this, you know, third PA, right? Um, not really a lot of progress forward. They improved the resource, improved the geological understanding of it, definitely added value. Um but you know we contrast that to someone like Adriatic who just went you know hellbent for production right um it's certainly a risky approach as well right but we really felt that there was a high-grade core at Iawoka and that we needed to progress towards that now if we if we take that route by Graham's own admission he is an exploration geo he's a very good exploration Gio um but he's not a mindbuilder right so um we make if we fully commit to the permitting engineering construction you know uh operations path there'll be a you know transition there um and you know it's it's nice um dealing with a management team and board that everyone recognizes that they are a a piece of the puzzle and it is an evolving puzzle. And so pieces get swapped in and out, right? Um that that's fine and it should be fine. And and management that refuses or boards that refuse to let go um are an obstruction to process to progress >> and to process. Uh that is actually a nicely book, but it's it's true. And I will get back to that because I do want to know how you're going to make that decision and when. So I'm writing down some stuff that we're going to get back to. But I think that about does it for the for the smell test. I want to go back to something else that you said at the beginning, but looking at the um the share price, you know, the tank of share price over the last 5 years, it hasn't been great. Um walk me through what happened there? You've obviously looked into it, but what was was there something wrong with the company? Uh was it that loop or what are you going to be doing differently this time around to essentially not fall into that loop of, you know, falling share price again? Yeah, like I said, everyone in the zinc space, all Fireweed and Tinka's peers along with Fireweed and Tinka crap the bed in the latter half of 2018, right? And it was basically, you know, I mean, credit to Arizona mining, who sold to South 32, who who was the gold standard of Zinc Jr. at that point in time, you know, that was 1.8 billion US they sold for in mid 2018. It must have been within 2 weeks of Trump, you know, announcing the trade wars, like literally, right? And then the whole base metal complex had issues and none bigger than zinc, right? Like economic slowdown um kills base metal demand, right? You know, the they're fundamentally tied to global economic health. Um, so all of us, you know, fireweed peaked at $2.14 in um, uh, mid 2018 and then I think it was down to 60 by, uh, you know, mid 2019, right? Um, you know, it was and then I mean 2020 we were down as far as 30 cents, right? When when you know, the markets really, you know, had struggles during co. Um so basically same thing happened to Tena. Uh a bit of you know momentum here and there. Um the introduction of you know buura the nexa helped but I think a lot of the market wondered why there was two strategics and no bids for the project you know. So that's you know you bring in these strategics and then nothing happens with them. People start to think that maybe nothing going to happen right I I guess you know you can't everyone has their own reason for selling. Um, and unfortunately selling begets selling, you know, creates a bad chart and and that becomes a beast of its own, right? Um, it's very hard to fight that that chart. Everyone assumes there's something wrong. It's like, well, what's wrong is everyone's assuming there's something wrong, right? Um, so sometimes you just have to kind of flip the script and and that is not always easy to do. Um, they clearly I think needed more capital markets help during that period. Uh, and and I think that's what what Michael and I bring, right? And so we're hoping that now, you know, we have a more cohesive or are building a more cohesive strategy. Um, we have an exact chair, another board member, uh, who have, you know, deep experience in the capital markets and know how to, you know, get some excitement behind a a listing junior. Well, to follow up on that and and and also what you claim on present on slide or page three in your presentation is where you say that you want to shorten the development pipeline to production. >> Yeah. Is is it is it you who will be trying to bring this asset into production? Is that are you are you dead set on that or will you be looking for you know an exit after I don't know potentially an updated resource or whatever it might be? Um I you can't force an exit, right? So everything we do to get this closer to production makes the project more salailable. Buying the surface rights, detailed metallergy, detailed engineering studies, M&I drilling to M&I in the critical zones, etc. Right? All of these things make it easier for someone to purchase you. Right? that that is big box checking in terms of the major risks, right? Getting community agreements, etc. Right? So, these these are all things that should make it easier for us to be purchased. Um, if it was a betting man, I would be surprised if we built this. But, um, at the same time, you you take it that, well, someone's definitely going to buy us. It just leads to bad decision-m, right? which is maybe what had been done right over the last sort of 6 years was like we'll just keep building it bigger and someone's going to have to buy us. Um and I don't think anybody has to do anything right. So so you want a daylight value build it. Um and and I think one of the things that you know Michael and I really feel and and I think the board's bought into you know including our strategic investors is that you know it doesn't have to be the biggest green fields build to be a green fields build at all. I mean we can preconentrate and toll mill or something at at another semi idle or idle mill within 100 km and there's quite a few around there. um you know we can think about it not in terms of maximal NPV but in terms of maximal NAV per share right now um because those may not be the same thing right because a maximal NPV study may require the most drilling to get the reserve conversion may require the most time to do that which means you know more years discount to production uh may require more complicated permitting, riskier permitting, etc. Um and then ultimately higher capital um which may be harder to finance and may have tougher financing terms. So a smaller NPV may actually be more value for current shareholders. What would that's that's a good point that I think we'll be back to as well, but what would a resource or an updated resource here have to look like in order for it to be of interest to a potential buyer, I guess, both in terms of economics, but also in terms of size? I mean, is is there a magic number for Zinc? >> No, I don't think so. Right. And and I mean I I I don't know what the imperatives uh of each, you know, potential acquirer are, right? you know, there there's a project for sale near us, uh, RARA, the RA mine that that's being sold by Mansour. Um, there's not a there's significant less than a decade of of reserves there. I could see the the final owner of that, which which might might might be known before the end of this year, um, being quite interested in Iawoka. they may have a lot, you know, if they're thinking, you know, pre-conentration at Iaw Wilka and trucking at 35 km, which is not far, um, to, um, the RA mill, they may have a pretty low threshold to view Iawa as interesting. Someone who's thinking who has no assets in Peru and is thinking we want to get a tow hold in Peru may need to see something pretty big to justify setting up the entire uh infrastructure of of a you know new country right so you know everyone's going to be different um you know we when we kind of raise the cuto off and we look at you know the the higher grade zones which are regionally continuous in the west and and south parts of Iawoka Um, you know, I'd like to see those about 50% bigger to get a um, you know, a a good mine life at at sort of a plus 12% zinc equivalent. Um, you know, I think I is what I would like to see. You know, that that's a that's a pretty great mine in Peru if you can do that, right? Um, so I I think drilling these big stepouts into the lowgrade sort of distal zones um allows you to build an inferred resource very quickly. I don't know that that resource adds economic value, right? And so that's what we're really trying to focus on is like maybe not be resource and MPV maximalist, maybe focus on, you know, high-grade, you know, pragmatism, right? >> You're a great maxi. Um, I can get behind that. What is it? What is the acid called there? Ra. >> Ra. R A U R A. >> Say that five times fast. That's a funny name. >> Uh, what is the what do you think? Rough estimate ballpark. How much money would you have to spend on it to get it, you know, 50% larger than it is right now? those stepouts that you mentioned. Um, if I could give you a credit card with an exact number of, you know, a dollar value on it right now, how much money would you want me to put on the credit card? >> Good question. Right. Um, you know, I I've seen some comments on social media that our next drill program is going to double the resource, which is a real failure to look at how much drilling has been done to date, right? You know, like it's >> No pressure though. >> Yeah. So, you think about 100,000 meters done to date or something like that. So to duplicate that would be >> uh we're not going to do 100,000 meters this year. That's for sure. That's that's a lot of drilling. Um so uh I I I don't know, you know, I like I don't we're not going to accomplish that. Unlikely um based on my feeling about the resource to accomplish that 50% in the next drill program, but I think we can get a good move on it. It's possibility, right? Like I think I if you you know have a good sense of where the high grade is and and where it's extending and if you find any more of these you know high-grade sort of pipes um you might be able to develop some high grade tons pretty quick. I mean, you're not talking about building another 30 mil, you know, 30 million tons is 50% of of everything, right? But if you're looking to add another 4 million tons of high-grade, that may not require a ton of drilling, right? If if if you can really nail down your exploration and and lock it in. So, I I don't know. Like I I my gut is 15 million, I guess, right? Like I I don't know. Um >> is seasonal drilling there, right? >> No, not I welcome. No, no. Um, at uh Sylvia, yeah, uh the access at Sylvia is a bit harder. So, the the rainy season there would be a bit of an impediment to drilling. Um whereas at Ioka, I think you could if you really want to drill year round. Um what's stopping us from getting into drilling at Iawoka right now um is that we want to renew our community agreements. >> Right. And >> we have one active, uh, one just expiring, one that's lapsed a while back because we hadn't been drilling in in that community's area. We'd like to get two or maybe all three renewed. Um, they're all having elections late this year. So, we'll be waiting till the elections are done um to start those negotiations, which is why we we are projecting a drill program and starting in July, August at Iowa. >> Oh, definitely asking about the community relations. um important everywhere, definitely important in Peru as well. So, >> we'll definitely get to that, but but what I'm really thinking about here is, yeah, how much money is it going to cost you? How much time is it going to take you to get it to that, you know, critical scale? D-risk it enough where it's interesting and and large enough. Um, two to three seasons. Does that sound reasonable? >> I think we can do it faster than that. I think we can do it faster than that for sure. Um, and like I say, interesting enough, it's very much in the eye of the holder, right? that this project's been close to M&A before. So I I think that um it's already there in the eyes of some people. Um and I and I think you might not need to drill it right off. Drill it off as in like define it um to show that it's there, right? You have you have a handful of good high-rade hits um and and you convince a potential acquirer that like, oh, hey, like it's there. Are they going to get FOMO? Are they really going to wait around for you to do what maybe I mean look drilling drilling from the first hits to a resource is never a foregone conclusion right like it's never like oh sure like we've got three hits we've definitely got a you know this is now we just like d and it's done right it's like no it's not that simple but um you know companies can't get FOMO right and they can see like well if they keep getting hits like this it's just going to get more expensive and if it was already basically there and the riskreward ratio or you know is like okay well we we know there's more high grade we just don't know how much you know may maybe they move on it um but you know at the end of the day like you know we see an opportunity to you know that that doesn't really change our thoughts visav um design maybe too much right like whether it's 10 or 15 year mine life um you know on a smaller high-grade you know really focused approach um so maybe we get stuck into permitting anyways right like you know Start that clock, right? Get get going. >> Well, you could make that work if you're uh owned by the Chinese government. You could drill a hole here and then another hole, you know, a kilometer down there and then just block model and be like, we've got a $700 billion gold deposit right here. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've seen that. Jeez, I get that from relatives all the time of like, oh, this country has discovered the biggest gold deposit in history. It's like, wow, let's talk about that in a year's time, right? How do you 15 million bucks doesn't sound unreasonable at this market cap, but but you still got to have a plan for financing it? Would you just straight equity? Would you consider JV? Uh is there room for another strategic here next to Nexa and and Buenav Ventura? How do you think about financing this company? >> U look you can there's there's a right price for everything. Like I think you recognize that a JV it completely hamstrings your your I mean your your M&A options, right? Uh then you got one partner and you're you're at their mercy uh in terms of how fast they go and you can put all sorts of hooks into the contract to to keep them honest. Um but you're still at their mercy mostly, right? So um I don't love JVS. Uh junior major JVS don't often work out. I mean, look, expiration doesn't often work out, right? So, I get, you know, may maybe that's just a truism no matter what the structure. Um, I I don't think, you know, we know that some of our existing shareholders will reup and and grow their position, not not just um not just maintain it. So, we see a path there in the equity markets as long as the equity markets don't completely fall out, right? And and you know I think this is one of your videos recently about you know is this a true bull market? Uh if it is um quality projects should not struggle to raise money you know and they the trick is going to be are are you building the book yourself with quality names or are you going to a you know brokerage house that's doing a driveby and is going to just fill it and churn it. Um because there's lots of that in a bull market, right? Uh and that that's what separates the wheat from the chaff and manager for sure. >> How do you feel about warrants going forward? I mean, I saw some complaints online about the warrant structure being too too cheap and too generous with the recent financing. So, how do you plan on dealing with warrants in the future? >> Well, those are our people, right? So, um you know, that was maybe the last time we issue warrants, right? You know, in fireweed we issue warrants in 2020 only, right? right? The rest of the time I didn't um this one I you know I mean to be completely selfish I was coming in right I wanted a aggressive terms that was the the cost of my involvement and the cost of you know our initial placement um you know now now we're in right so now they're not negotiating against me I'm negotiating for them um so it's it's I I'm not super concerned about those warrants when I look at who they're held by um you know I think we're fine Right. >> You don't think they they kneecap, you know, growth from here on out potentially just because of the pricing? >> Oh, we're already well over the warrant price, right? If it if I mean, I guess, you know, we're we're they can't trade the warrants cuz we're more than 4 months over anyways, right? I I would be surprised if there's much selling to ride the warrants. There'll be some. There always is, right? But, um, even people who you swear are great shareholders, uh, they were great shareholders for you once, they may not be a second time, right? You just you got to you got to anticipate that. Um but I think you you deliver you produce good results. Uh you keep the market informed. Um you know I think that problem is is the least of your concerns. >> What is the most of your concerns? What's the biggest risk for Tena in the process of trying to get to that point? Is it geological, metallological, financial community, something else? >> Um macroeconomic would be probably the biggest risk for every junior right now, right? Um and and that's like I said that's that's universal, right? Um you look at what happened to Tinka and Fireweed in 2018 could happen again, right? Like there's a lot of tariffs right now, right? So um precious metals are doing well. Base metals okay, right? considering the the amount of tariffs and and trade frictions being introduced right now. Um base metal is going to rip if you know the tariffs all evaporate and we're back to a you know more freer trade environment. Um I I I think there's there's lots of geological and engineering risk at Iowa coming. Obviously huge amount of geological risk at Sylvia, right? This has never been drilled, right? So so great great trenches uh do not always equate to great drill results. Um sometimes they do and that's what we're hoping for. Um so a big geological risk there. Uh I welcome may not have a lot of you know more fruit to to bear in terms of high grade. Right. So our our thesis may not play out that way. We feel it does, but but you can be wrong. Um and yeah, community, you know, we we've um pretty good relationship with the community. They they seem pro project. Uh all four communities we deal with, one at Sylvia and and three at um at Iawoka, all seem they want agreements. They want the project forward. They want jobs, etc. Um but they these things can pivot, right? So um they can change it can take a turn you know you can you can get a uh an election that that goes against you and and anti-development or anti-mining people come in um you know it's it's the reality um so and in small communities like that it's very personality driven I mean it is in you know countries as well you look what's happening in the US you know there big big change based on one personality Um but in communities it's like you know you might have 200 people you're dealing with >> right? So so it's like literally one person can sway and you know his family and extended family and and suddenly you know it's not the same as it was before. So you know you have you have to put in the the hard yards there. Um I I felt pretty good about Iowa cuz metallergy and and engineering etc. Right. Um but um yeah, I would say what what keeps me up. So to kind of recap, what keeps me up most of the night is just macroeconomic. Um you know, just it's one of those rare projects that I'm like, "Okay, yeah, like feels like we can build a mine here, right?" Like like like not without challenges cuz it's a challenging industry, but it feels like we're there, right? Which is a great position to be in. I think to make the community thing happen, you you you might have to change your Twitter handle from Yukon Brandon to Peru Brandon. That's uh >> That's right. Yeah, >> that's going to be the that's going to be the thing pulling them over the line. Um, how far are you from any agriculture or any other potential areas of of life that you might disturb with this project either during exploration or mining? >> Oh, well, there's little hamlets, etc., uh you know like these little tiny mini villages on the project and and around the area and stuff like that. So you know there's there's a good risk that you disturb people, right? And um you know do they you know is is there a price that makes them happy that allows them to set up you know their their little farm elsewhere? Um that's we had to figure out. um the the the communities themselves are far enough away that they would not be directly impacted, you know, and I think there's a way to honestly to to truck the concentrate out that isn't having to go right through these communities as well. >> Um so I think that um you know it's not you know it's not going to be a massive disruption to anyone I don't think. >> What do community consultations look like for you? I mean, h have you been there already, talked to the people and and and what is that actually going to look like? Um, >> if you've not done it once, >> I haven't. Right. I I mean, they probably don't speak much English and my Spanish is limited, very limited. I I I've done work in Latin America um enough that there was a time when I was uh I would say functional in Spanish. uh you know, I could um get around if if there was nobody that spoke English, I wasn't going to starve to death or anything like that, right? Um but I was never talking about my hopes and dreams or or certainly doing detailed negotiations in Spanish. Uh >> you're just like don Estella Disc and that was basically it, right? >> Yeah, basically. Yeah. Yeah. Um and um also you know even Graham for the most part we have community people stays out of the discussions a bit uh cuz in the event like it the discussion goes kind of south if the CEO and chairman are involved in it there's no one to go above that right um so you know keeping it one step removed so that you can escalate I think is is valuable and so for that escalation hasn't been needed. >> Mhm. How's power in the region? Um now for exploration, but also again thinking about a potential mining scenario. What kind of upgrades are needed? >> Well, there's a big power line through the project. Look at the look at the um uh photos. You'll see it. And actually there's a there's a subsidiary of Tinka that's set up that owns power rights uh there, right? So, we actually have the rights to that power already, which is one, you know, I mean, that's I mean, coming from being in the middle of nowhere in Yukon, um, to some like, oh, there's the high voltage power line. That's and we've got a right to the power. Like, that's what a what a change, right? >> Yeah. All the more reason to change your name to Peru Brandon, I suppose. >> That's right. Yeah. >> How you say big power line, how big is it? I mean, is it is it is it mining power? I mean it's because you need larger infrastructure essentially if it's going to be you know a mining operation. >> This may be above my Craig pay grade but I'm pretty sure um there is a substation 4 km away and the um yeah I'm just looking it up here but I don't know what exact um >> four is better than 400 >> or anything. >> Yeah. U and but but and then the power lines themselves to go right over the project. >> Right. Um, I don't know what voltage they are. They looked pretty material to me. Like they're they're not like, you know, power a subdivision sort of power lines. Like they're they're beefy. >> You went there yourself before that. I I think of you've been to the project multiple times. How's um security? I mean, when you step on the ground, do you need like an escort? Like whatever. >> No, no, no. We we we drove there without escort, without anything like that. and you know I'd stopped in the communities and talked to some people and um you know on site there was you know no need for anything like that. I didn't I don't you know this doesn't seem like a part of Peru where that's a big concern that perhaps I could change right um but at least now it's it's been pretty safe. Um, you know, I've I've worked in places where I did not feel safe like very much. And and I've been in, you know, uh, you know, when I was in Colombia, um, some villages, it just felt weird. I don't I don't know how to describe what, um, what you were even seeing that felt weird. It was just something about it felt weird. And I got none of that vibe at all. Right. Um, I I was getting out of the vehicle. My presence was unremarkable. Nobody seemed to care. Right. So, I think that's that's a good indication. >> Yeah. You've worked in Vancouver, too. Um, >> and I think Michael's in London, isn't he? >> Yes. Yeah. >> Right. There you go. We'll talk about the interest places. Um, how's water? What's the water situation there? Uh, who's got the rights? Is there is there enough water? What does that look like? >> Yeah. I'm not uh I'm not sure about the water rights there. you know, there is pretty healthy uh rainfall seasonally there. Um, you know, I know that um for the drilling at least, they have a couple big ponds that they collect water in so they can drill in the dry season. Uh, what that means for, you know, uh, production in the dry season, I'm not sure. Um, I could certainly chase that down. Um but it's you know the in terms of the negative sides of water um the water table is mostly below I think it's entirely below the uh west deposit or at least the important parts the west deposit and halfway down the south deposit which is good you know the less you have to to drain the better. >> Yeah topography uh might be worth touching upon as well. What does that look like where you are? Well, it's interesting the like it's a bit of a plateau um the project. Um and not that it's completely flat, but I would say it's kind of like rolling hills, which you'll see in the photos, but then you kind of go a little bit away and then it drops off pretty sharply, right? Um you know, these big limestone cliffs, etc. there. Um so, you know, the last 3 km of driving, you do quite a bit of switch back to get up there. Then once you're up there, it's kind of just rolling hills. Um so, you know, lots of room for infrastructure up on the um plateau for sure. >> But you you can drive the rig up there then. You don't have to fly it in. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> But let's do talk about what you have going on right now cuz you're going to be drilling soon, I believe. Um >> yeah, Sylvia, I mean imminent, but that the the rig is being I mean has been mobilized. like they're >> they've got it all to sight and I don't know exactly when drilling starts but it'll be soon. >> That's your gold copper target. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's very different. There's no road to that. So that was a that was a production to get that drill in, >> right? What are you paying per meter per meter drilled or what are you going to be paying per meter drilled? >> Uh for Sylvia it's going to end up being around,000 bucks which is pretty expensive. Um, but that's because it's a small program and because there's been so much work establishing the trail to the drill site and getting the drill up there and all the the bits and bobs for the drill. Um, you know, I think it's probably that's about I want to say 1.2 million US program uh for 1,500 m um thereabouts. I suspect it's probably about, you know, which would you which make you say about $800 per meter or something like that. I suspect it's probably about $400 a meter uh plus $600,000 in costs of getting established there, right? So, I think our subsequent programs there are going to be a lot cheaper. Um we're also looking to amend the permit there to allow for the use of helicopters cuz the way we did it now, I mean, it was it was good for community engagement because we employed a lot of people. It was a lot of manually getting stuff, you know, up to the Soviet project. So, I think we had up to 40 or 50 people from the Tupac village employed there. >> Mhm. The village called Tupac. >> Yeah, Tupac something. I I don't know what it is. Yeah, I was like, "Oh, interesting." >> It's a fan base, maybe. I'll look it up. Uh, I actually didn't know that. What is the How How many holes do you want to do? What's the average depth? >> Three or four holes to probably 4 or 500 meters. like we're not going to stop a hole if um you know it's well mineralized um or otherwise interesting. Um but the rigs the these are manportable rigs. Interestingly, I've used these same rigs in Yukon um because they were designed to be manportable or broken down into small enough bits that you could use a lighter weight helicopter to move them. Uh you know cuz you know that the the rigs we were using at Fireweight uh in Heli program there were were pretty beefy rigs. So, you need a pretty beefy helicopter to move the the heavy bits of it. Whereas these rigs, you know, the the heaviest bits of it can still be moved by like a u a huge 500, like a much lighter helicopter. Um, where was I going with this? Anyway, so the point is we're not going to go like super deep. You know, even if the hole was well mineralized at 500 600 m, that may be tapping out the drill rig. Um I mean look if it's still well minimalized that deep man that's a great problem to have. Um but we'll see. >> First time you're drilling there though or like in the history of the company, right? >> The history of the project. Yeah. >> Yeah. Um what is um I was just thinking how how long is it going to take you to drill that first hole and then and then get it to market because I was trying to I was trying to understand how ground conditions might be and and what kind of you know drilling efficiencies you might get per day. >> I would say it's probably 3 weeks per hole. Um, so if we start it next week, uh, maybe done it at October 15th or November 15th, something like that. >> Yeah. >> Um, and then if we get results inside of a month, that would be great. So, look, I think there's >> a chance, you know, we have something to say. I mean, there's a, you know, chance, uh, you know, I I am a fan of, um, and I, honestly, I hope it's not speaking out of turn because I haven't talked to Graeme about this, but I I I am a fan of talking about visuals and it's you have to be careful there because you can you can be very misleading, right? And and I don't think you want to be misleading. So I think you want to really stress the uncertainty that goes from visuals to assays, but at the same time if you have a hit or even a not hit or something like that, that's a that's a long time uh to be in possession of material information and not, you know, release it on on the ASX. I think if you if you if something material happens, you have 3 days to get it out, right? Um so they they're basically forced to do visuals. Um, so, you know, I don't I see the value of both. I I certainly see the value of like we're not going to talk about it until um, you know, we have the full assays. Um, you know, at Fireweed, we liked the approach of, you know, every time we had a news release during the program, we would talk about the drill holes we completed to date and we had a very simple description of the holes, right? like a, you know, wide mineralized zone encountered. It might have been like only that, right? Um, so people knew what to what holes had hit and missed and at least it cleared the air on the misses completely, right? You know, very quickly. Um, but yeah, so I guess there's a possibility that we have something to say sooner rather than later. Um, certainly hoping we do, right? >> But in terms of assays then whole by whole, does that make sense? I guess. Yeah. You know, you know, I guess there's if there's three weeks between them, it might just end up being that way, right? >> Yeah. >> But you should still be able to get it out before the end of the year, at least one hole. Just looking at >> Hope. I hope so. Yeah. I I don't know what the status of labs are in in Peru, but but I would think that's possible. >> Um, are there a lot of labs where you are, or would you have to >> Well, I mean, we're not that far from uh Lima, right? like it's, you know, I mean, I guess actually as the crow flies, there's kind of two roads on Sylvia and and our access is through the north one, which I think requires us to go quite a bit further north before coming back around. >> Um, but um, all the same, even if it's a couple days to the lab, that's not the that's not the major bottleneck, right? >> It's not two weeks to get to the lab. >> How would you define success from this program? I mean, it's first pass your program. So are you looking for minimums like minimum grades width geometry something else that you want to see in in the core here? >> Yeah. Um um so you know there was a trench across this this scarn outcrop at Sylvia in the valley there. Uh and across the samples across this trench averaged uh 1.9 g gold and8% copper over 46 m of trenching. Right. Um I would be delighted to get that in a drill hole. Absolutely. tickle pink to get that in a drill. Right? So, there are a variety of reasons that a trench can misrepresent what's underneath higher or lower geological variability, right? Um, you can have mechanical enrichment of the gold or something like that, you know, or or supergene enrichment or something of the copper. Like there's a whole variety of reasons it could be overstated or understated. Um, we we'd like to see, you know, extensive scar mineralization. We'd like to see grades that are um encouraging. There's definitely not been enough geoysics done in this project. The reason we're jumping into drilling is exactly because of that that you know sample, you know, the trench across uh this um this outcrop that's compelling enough that it felt like we should put some holes into this, right? Um you know, if we get something that's like I don't know what the grade width is, but but you know, it seems to hold up to those sort of 40ish meter thickness. Um, and we're seeing at least spotty bits of good copper and good gold. It may not be all the way across it, but we're seeing little bits of it that are good. Um, that to me is encouraging, right? Cuz we don't know how far we are from the source intrusion. We do not know if this is the best part of the scar system. Um, so what I want to see is like, okay, it looks to be a reasonable size SCAR system and it is at least locally carrying great. I that I think is a major victory. Um, the market of course wants to see bonanza, right? Uh, hey, look, if we hit that in our first drill program, uh, we'll we'll act like we knew it was going to happen, even though of course we didn't, right? Um, it that would be a great outcome. But yeah, I think I think um we're definitely I don't know how it could be so bad that we wouldn't still come back here with some geoysics. Um, but I think anything that's, you know, if we get any sort of intersections of 10 m of plus of of good grade, I'd be like, "Okay, all right. No, this is this is real, right? We do we may not be at the guts of it, but this is real." >> Could it be good enough that you're like, I want to spin it out. This needs to be its own company raising its own capital. >> Yeah, that's actually been a big discussion is do we do we spin this out? Um I I think that's definitely a measure twice cut once situation. Um you know, we've actually recently acquired some ground in between Sylvia and I woke up. Amazingly, they're close enough and the ground was open um for us to uh connect them, which which is good because it allows you to under some laws consider them the same project, right? Um which is which is useful if one's in production, the other's not. Um, so that that'd be a reason to not spin it out cuz then you've lost that that edge. Uh, but it is different markets. One's a mature, you know, progressing to production zinc project. Another is a expiration, you know, big riskreward story, you know, copper gold, right? So I can certainly and I think likely different suitors for each. >> Yeah, that's kind of where I was coming from with this. And again, it's results dependent, I suppose. I mean, if if there's no major grade there, it might make it tough for that company to raise capital on its own. So you might still need to push it a bit forward. Why why was it never drilled? I mean, you say you're going to do the first drill program on the project ever. How come? So, it's I mean it's it's pretty um rugged remote terrain, right? I don't think there've been a lot of prospecting done there. Um Rio had done some mapping there. Uh Rio, sorry, not Rio. Uh BHP had done some mapping there. Um they had done some geoysics. They hadn't really sampled this outcrop um that we did. Um so it, you know, they were looking for an antimina. Uh the intrusions they found here as I understand were the were the wrong age. So even though it was the right limestone they found the wrong age intrusion. So they weren't they became less interested. You know at the end of the day this was part of a big regional program for BHP. So you have to you can't keep every bit of ground. You just can't right like like a a big regional program. you really need to pick where you're going to focus cuz you can't do focused work on, you know, uh 5,000 km or something like that, right? U I don't know if it was that big, but you know, you know my point. So, um they gave it up, right? And and and we got it pretty cheap. And you know, the the more detailed work that that the Tinka team did, um has identified something material. And I think there's a couple there's like different target areas each one which have different interest that seems quite likely that there's a buried intrusion there and it could be a a pfrey target there as well right um you know this is this is the Andes you know it's a good reason to think there could be a a good pfrey in the area right doesn't mean there is um so you know we we see there's more work to be done for sure um but you when we looked at it um you know I think of like all sorts of companies that have drilled you know good discoveries based on an outcrop that's a pretty good place to start you know the reality is that we're increasingly in a world where you're not starting with a good outcrop >> right because the good outcrops unless there's something they're really hard to get to um you know dangerous um or something like that or or have just been revealed because of ice retreat or something like that. Um there's not a lot of screaming outcrops just sitting out there begging to be drilled, right? Um so more and more, you know, companies are not rushing into these drill programs because they can't. They've got, you know, deepseeing geochemistry and geoysics, etc. to do to really figure out what their target should even be. Um like we have some idea where this buried intrusion is here. Um but I can't I can't go drilling it. We have we like some idea. It's still a needle in a hay sack even for something as big as an intrusion. Right. >> Yeah. >> So you know there needs to be some IP or something there to to figure out where would we even target that drill hole? How deep are we targeting is here? What type of drill do we bring in? Could we do it with these little drills or do we have to bring in something beefy? Right. So, I think um we're lucky, we feel very lucky that at least our first drill program here, we've got some stuff at surface um that that runs really well, right? So, um you know, and that it seems to be a gold dominant system, right? You've you've got up to up to an ounce of gold and and grab samples, right? So, it should be interesting. >> What's elevation here again? So 4,500 I want to say around uh Sylvia I mean give or take right it's in a pretty um good size valley there so you know top or bottom I'm not sure what the difference is but 4500ish >> what about Ika >> similar yeah I want to say IA is about the plateau I want to say is about 4,000 to 4,300ish >> when are you >> I mean am I am I exactly right there no but it's about that >> no that's fine I'm ballpark is fine. Um, why not drill them at the same time? >> Oh, you mean IA? >> Yeah, right. We're we're not ready. We don't you know, first off, we got a lot of desktop studies to do at Iwoka to understand exactly what we want to do and where. Um, I am going from first principles on Iawoka. Um, and it's and it's not out of a lack of respect for the work that's been done, but I just think sometimes you have to go back to the beginning and say, "Let's let's rebuild our our case here. Uh, let's let's make sure we understand this." Um, and they're on board for that. Second, more important reason is we got to redo our community agreements, right? And that's that's starting really the effort on that starting reasonably soon. But I wouldn't expect those to be signed until you know uh Q2 2026, right? >> Um >> but I mean still because you said I world is not seasonal. So you could be drilling this in in our summer their winter. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Uh that's not going to cost you more. >> No. No. No, no. I was there and I'm in August. Um and it was um they were remarking on how there was snow the day before. Like that was a big deal and it it was gone by the time we got there. In fact, it was probably gone by that afternoon. It is it is not like it's not high enough altitude given how far how close the equator it is to have, you know, material snowfall. Um it was, you know, I had a light jacket on while touring in the dead of in the dead of winter, right? Switching gears here maybe a little bit, but you've also recently acquired a 5% carried interest in a company that holds a gold project in Saudi Arabia. Um, kind of out of the I don't know, out of the I wouldn't have expected it when I have it on my thinking. >> Yeah. Well, what the thinking was and this this was before, you know, Michael and I approached Tinka. Um Graeme was in Riad for uh a conference uh and I think met some locals who wanted to get involved in a tender process to bid on a gold project in in um Saudi Arabia. And they they lacked the expertise to do it. And so they effectively contracted Tinka to um pick the project they bid on uh and help them design the program to be run on it. So, uh, I understand why Graham did it. He wouldn't do it again now because at that point, Tinka was in a very tough spot. They needed the money. This was paying. This helped keep, you know, bring money into Tinka. It wasn't a lot. It was 250 US a year, I want to say, right? But it was something. And and, you know, he otherwise might have had to lay off his geological workers or, you know, team, right? So, this is like, okay, well, it keeps them busy. It means they're costneutral. um they can do you know the mapping and everything for the stuff in Saudi and and so for Tinka it was a little bit of money coming in and it carried interest in the project right so it made sense at the time uh and and we're not going to go dropping or anything like that we're going to we're going to keep our um involvement there it is a super low bandwidth thing for us to do right um which is why Graham took it on but but would I do it again now no I wouldn't I don't think it it makes sense it made sense in the context text of where Tinker was at the time. >> So, is it going to cost you any money, time, effort, or anything else to manage it at all? >> No. No. In fact, it brings money in, right? So, um will uh until we stop being carried, which I don't remember exactly what the threshold is there, it's still a few years out yet. Um it doesn't cost us anything. >> And you're also then I'm assuming you're not planning anymore of of of this kind of deals anymore. You're just going to focus on what you have at Iowa and and Sylvia, I'm assuming. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I mean, never say never, right? Like I think um something sometimes sometimes things just land on your lap and you're like, "Oh, gez, we should do this." Right? You know, um did did Far need a tungsten project? No. Right. But that that turned out to be a pretty good move, right? So, um you you got to be opportunistic and you got to say, "Okay, what is the value in this being in Tinka? and is there something specific about Tinka that makes this project more valuable in this company than another company? And if something like that landed on our lap, then yeah, we jump on it, right? We're not actively looking. Um, but we're always open-minded. >> Couple of housekeeping notes here, GNA. What do you think that's going to be? Do you have a a rough estimate of where you want it? Um, yeah. um management salaries plus what dimminimous rent and and bookkeeping and that sort of stuff. Uh I want to say it's about a million US a year. >> Okay. That include marketing? >> No. No. I would say marketing. This is actually we're having an open discussion right now, but what do we want to spend on marketing? Um um I want a pencil in about a half million a year. Um I don't I don't know if that's too much or or not enough, right? Like we spent I've spent significantly more than that before. Um you know, marketing it's very easy to waste money. Um but when a market's hot, marketing is more effective. That's just the reality, right? You know, and in a bad market, um none of your marketing partners have stroke. None of them. They can't do anything for you, right? It's like, I don't know. Pay them if you want. That's probably not doing you much good. Um, in a hot market, even the least competent marketing partners can generate something often, right? Cuz it's just eyeballs, eyeballs, eyeballs. When when Joe Retail, you know, Joe Main Street Retail is is talking about needing to buy a zinc company, um, you know, then then anything that gets be your name out there is good, right? So, I don't think we're there yet. Um, but I do think we need to carefully, you know, increase our marketing spend. >> What do you want to spend it on? Are you thinking, um, kind of a similar mixes to what you were doing at at Fireweed? Are you going to change something, bring something new in? >> Yeah, pretty similar mix, right? I think um, a bit more digital material, videos, etc. Um, you know, webinars, stuff like that. Um, a bit more travel. Well, I I think we're lucky that um Graeme and I and and even Michael and Bit can divide and conquer a bit the jurisdictions. Um I'm able to travel for a couple companies now, which helps cuts the cost, right? Um if you'll if you'll be at Deutsche Gold Messa, um I I'll probably be presenting for two companies, right? So that's that's um and then I'm lucky that that Will Slack from Enduro will be there to take the Enduro meetings and I'll probably take the Tinkan meetings. Um, so there's ways to kind of cut down there. Um, but yeah, it's like I don't, you know, no big aggressive newsletter campaigns or, you know, digital blasts or anything like that planned. I I I have done those in the past and at the time I didn't know. I I didn't realize how hot money it was, right? And and I'm, you know, I don't feel bad. We we we didn't say anything misleading or anything like that, right? But um, you we talk about shareholder quality. Sometimes if you if you really try to overspend on marketing, a quick uh chart move can be your own worst enemy because you know your your long and loyal shareholders will sell because it's too much and then you have to convince them to buy back and they often won't. They've gone on to something else, right? you know, you if if you doubled by going up 2%, you know, every, you know, every day for 2 months or whatever, um, you probably wouldn't shake out any of those loyal shareholders. But if you go up like if you double in like 2 days on no news, a lot of those people will flake out, right? And why not, right? It's probably how I would trade it. >> More travel. Is that you speaking or does the wife just want to have you out the house again? in a while. I'm I'm I'm trying to, you know, jeez at my I don't know what year it was that I did the most travel, but it was like 120 days on the road. Um I am not aiming for that. I I I I don't think that was valuable. Um although I was hitting a lot of different things like you know there's there is retail marketing, there is engaging with funds, there is um um you know I had gone to Japan and China a few times to engage with corporates there which is a bit of a different beast. Um, but I think a lot of with the company you have to frontload it. You know, maybe this year is going to be a bit more and then we kind of come down afterwards cuz you can follow up with people more often on Zoom. But but I think that it is tough to make a meaningful connection with someone on Zoom when it's your first time meeting them. You know, it's it's I've heard the expression it t it takes three touches to make someone a contact. Um, and I don't think digital touches count much, >> right? I I don't I don't don't think they do. I think you need to meet them in person a couple times at least for them to feel like they know you and I think them feeling like they know you and legitimately knowing you makes their purchasing decision easier. >> Well, well, having seen um those fancy shoes of yours a couple of times, I feel like I know you. So, if that's any feedback, >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Impulse bought in Portugal. Yeah. Do you can you talk to me maybe a little bit about your um and I don't know if you can or not. So um about your relationship with the Blundines? I mean are they a potential is there a synergy here? Would they would they you know go back to doing something with you again? How did that kind of develop once you left Fireweed? >> Yeah, I mean I still I still talk to Adam occasionally. I talk to Harry Lundine more um at the Brahma Fund. Um, you know, I think that um I mean I would say time heals all wounds. It wasn't really that much of a wound. Like I understood that um there was going to be a change anyways, right? So um yeah, look, one of the things for sure is that um you it even if I had like some sort of um insane grudge, right? Like does that serve me or does that serve the company? Um and it would not, right? And so you have to, you know, recognize that business is business. Um, and you want to succeed maximally over your entire career, which means not burning any bridges and particularly not burning any bridges for anything as petty as, you know, having your nose at a joint about something, right? So um >> yeah I can I can see you know that this is um certainly their success at at Sylvia you know um even Ioka you know this this is um could be potentially interesting project for them both as investors and you know acquirers right so um you always keep the communication lines open you know and I mean enough that um I'm going to when I'm going to to DGM um jumping in on London first but also going to Stockholm and catching up with some of the the network there that I built when I was, you know, working for a London company. Um, and I think it's still still a good reception when I'm there. >> Are you going to ask him to sign the book? >> It's already signed. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, Robert uh Yeah. Yeah. I actually got my book directly from him, so he signed it. Yeah. No need. >> What's the most uh I'm about to let you go because I know you almost have to run here. What's the most favorite criticism of Tinka that you've heard since you joined the company? Hm. Um, you know, I think people were right that the company was a bit listless, right, without direction. Um, I think it was fair that, you know, it should have been dealt with. I mean, sentient end of fund was was not a surprise, right? This was a known thing for years and years and years, right? Like this is like the end of fund date, right? Um, these things are published. Um, could have been dealt with, right? And I mean, you know, like if there's no takers for it, there's no takers for it. But, um, that's tough, right? Like a, you know, whenever a company with legitimate asset has that type of chart over multiple years, I think that it is fair to ask like or to say that something was done wrong. >> Um, you know, I I think Graham is a tremendous geologist. He is he is a tremendous geologist and his his expertise uh has been demonstrated time and time again and the success they've had at Iowa. Look at the resource there. I don't think that that is you know up for debate. Um he knows he's not a market guy and he knows he's not a mindbuilder. Um you know so it's it's recognizing those blind spots and bringing in help right and I think that's the board's made the right decision. They they've brought in that help. >> What's the most fair criticism of me? What do you wish I uh I would have asked or done differently? Forgetting something to ask or something to cover here. >> Oh, most fair criticisms of you. Um yeah, jeez, I don't know. Um >> there's too many. You pull up a list like in the cartoons. >> We're both wearing the sweaters, right? So I I didn't wear my uh beige one, but um maybe your sweater's too tight. Is that is that a fair criticism? >> That's fair. No, that is fair. Um Randon, thank you so much. you know, I it's it's um I guess you know, the question is you're you're doing a good job on um you know, highlighting uh conflicts of interest, etc. Right. Um and I guess it's it's an open question. Does your audience even want a deeper dive on geology and technical stuff, which is probably out of your depth, right? And and I I do see people interview asking questions that are out of their depth, right? And it's like a because they asked a tough question, but if they can't understand the answer, what's the point? Clearly, someone's asked them that question. I mean, like I think you solicit questions in advance of this, right? >> Partly um I mean the option is there so people can go to resource.com at the bottom of the page there's an announcement of of the next interviews and people can can uh you know put in put in questions that they might want to ask. I do like doing deeper dives on on geology and don't get me wrong, I'm out I've been out of my depth throughout this conversation. I had to spend at least an hour in this in the mirror pretending that I know what I'm talking about and it happens in geology too. U but but at least uh not understanding everything kind of I suppose brings it closer because I can you know I get to ask questions and to try to actually understand it myself and if if I'm understanding and 99% of people are. Uh so we we I'd love to do that. I mean if if we can get Graham on and and and yourself and talk through everything, you know, a geo deep dive might be might be helpful. >> Yeah, I think particularly if there's some success or I mean whatever the outcome at at Sylvia, I think it'd be great to talk about the rationale of the program and the results and and uh what it means. >> Yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for doing this, Brandon. Really appreciate your time and hopefully speak to you again soon. >> Yeah. Thanks very much. >> And as always, thanks to everyone for watching Resource Talks. I have a couple of more things to say, though. The fact that this company was interviewed here today does not mean that they are necessarily a good or a bad company. I'm not here to endorse nor attack anyone. I am simply here to ask some questions. If you find that I have failed in asking a question that you would have liked to hear an answer to, which will happen as I'm not an experienced interviewer, please let me know and I will try to correct that mistake in a future interview. As mentioned at the beginning, please understand that mineral exploration and development is an extremely risky business. Losing money is the norm and should be the expectation. This is a very complex sector and the performance of individual companies typically depends on many different moving particles including company specific factors like geology, financing ability and many others really as well as particles that are outside of the company's control like geopolitics, macroeconomics, commodity prices and many more. most of which are nearly impossible to fully understand. Moreover, these companies that typically get interviewed on resource talks are in the pre-revenue stage, which means they rely on the public markets for the financing of their operations, which could result in shareholder dilution. Furthermore, as a general rule of thumb, you'll be better off understanding that all company communications online, albeit this interview or their website and their presentation and their social media accounts or even the social media accounts which you thought were your friends and then told you about a stock, everything really that these companies do is intended as marketing. And although I do not make buy or sell recommendations because there is a clear conflict of interest given the nature of my business, many out there do and you should be aware of that in bias and you should be careful out there. That bias is not always going to be clearly disclosed with everyone out there. So it is safer for you anytime you're watching any type of company specific content to approach it with a dose of skepticism and assume that the party telling you about it is biased in at least some shape or form because there will always be a bias again albeit clear or not. So, always ask yourself what the incentive of your counterparty is and never rely on them regardless of their incentives, but in instead double check if what they're saying is true again by using setterplus.ca. The fact that I have no idea what I'm doing should already be clear to you at this point. I am not saying this to make jokes or or laugh with myself. I just simply do not have a long enough track record of consistent investment profits. So, I should under no circumstances be considered an authority on anything. Again, although this may sound amusing to you, believe me, it is not amusing and it is not intended as a joke. I'm simply pointing out a fact and warning you not to rely on anything I do or say. Unfortunately, at least to my understanding, nobody out there has any special abilities. The CEOs do not possess any superior knowledge and they cannot know about what will go up, what will go down, or what will go in circles. Some people even believe that to be rule number one on Wall Street. Nobody really knows. None of us know whether any of the company's activities will result in a success. Again, given that we're talking about high-risk activities where most of the times it ends in failure. Also, unfortunately, try as I may, I won't always catch all red flags or old challenges with the companies. So, even if I did ask a few tough questions in here, don't rely on this being all of the tough questions. Again, these are complicated startups with many moving parts and I am conflicted given the nature of this business. 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This is all to say, I know it's a lot of lawyer talk, but this is all to say that you shouldn't blindly trust me or anybody on the internet, and you should do your own research. Once again, social media is meant for entertainment. It is set.ca where you do your research. That's where you'll find a company's official filings. And I encourage you to read and analyze the management information circular, the financial statements, the management discussion and analysis, and whenever available, the NI43101 technical documents. If you don't understand everything in those documents, the chances of you losing money are even higher than they normally are in the space. And as mentioned earlier, the chances of even the best analysts in this sector lo losing money are extremely high since this is venture capital and it is not for everybody. I'll leave you with one of Charlie Munger's quotes which I wish I had listened to more often earlier on which says quote if you don't understand it don't do it.