Jonathan Wellum: The Great Divide – U.S. Strength, Canadian Decline, and the AI Bubble & Gold Play
Summary
Market Outlook: The US economy is showing robust growth, with significant capital inflows expected, driven by favorable policies like tax reductions and deregulation, contrasting sharply with Canada's economic challenges.
US Financial Sector: Major US banks are reporting exceptional earnings, with significant growth in investment banking and M&A activity, despite concerns over consumer debt and the housing market.
Valuation Concerns: The current high valuations, particularly in the AI sector, are unsustainable, prompting a conservative investment approach with a focus on asset allocation and cash reserves.
Canadian Economy: Canada's economy is struggling due to high taxes, excessive regulation, and a lack of investment in key sectors like oil and gas, resulting in negative GDP growth per capita and rising unemployment.
Investment Strategy: Rocklink is focusing on global investments, particularly in sectors with secular growth opportunities such as technology, healthcare, and precious metals, while maintaining a significant position in gold and silver to hedge against global debt concerns.
Precious Metals: With a substantial portion of their portfolio in precious metals, Rocklink is capitalizing on the expected long-term demand for silver and gold, driven by digitalization and economic instability.
Canadian Market Dynamics: Despite the TSX's strong performance, largely due to materials and financials, the Canadian economy faces significant challenges, with policies stifling growth and investment.
Portfolio Management: Investors are advised to seek global diversification and focus on well-managed companies in growth sectors, while being cautious of overvalued markets and maintaining exposure to precious metals.
Transcript
That is a recipe for growth. That's a recipe for success. That's a recipe for a growing economy. Those are all the things that uh a smart person would want to be doing in in an economy. So I think that is incredibly positive for the US. We've missed out on about $670 billion that has not gone into projects in terms of investments that other capitals left the country. So you put a socialist regime, a social welfare system across our country and then you're not creating the wealth to pay for it. [Music] Don't forget to sign up for a free portfolio review with one of our endorsed investment partners at wealthon.com/free. With markets hitting all-time highs, now is a great time to stress test your strategy and be prepared for what comes next. Jonathan, thank you so much for joining us today. How are things in the great city of Toronto? >> Well, they're plotting along in Toronto. Uh probably at a slower rate than I would like. Uh we're trying to get more money back into the city and trying to get some economic growth here in Canada. So, that's the that's the challenge that we're facing in this country. >> I always enjoy speaking with a fellow Canadian and I do want to have a discussion with you on Canada and what's happening with that economy. But before we do so, I got to tackle the US first. There's so much going on there and we are in the beginnings of the Q3 earnings season and so far we've seen all the earnings out of the major US banks and for the most part they've been they hit the ball right out of the park and they're all trading at or near all-time highs. City's up 40% on the year. JP Morgan is up 30% on the year. Goldman Sachs is up 30% on the year and it looks like we've seen a big resurgence in M&A IPOs and advisory. But what's your take so far on the earnings we've seen out of the US financials? >> Well, the numbers have been, as you pointed out, exceptional, especially as you say in the investment banking and uh the different, you know, a lot of transactions going on. I mean, underneath the hood, there's still the concerns of course for consumer debt and uh write offs and the mortgage mortgages and uh mortgage debt and so forth. And that uh that I think is is acting as somewhat of a drag even with the stocks going up quite a bit. But overall, I mean, the US economy has been pretty robust and uh and the, you know, the J, you know, the leaders at the different banks are speaking in fairly glowing terms in terms of uh opportunities going forward and not too many problems that they see in the horizon. I mean, uh Jamie Diamond was talking about the employment situation being a little weaker and things like that. So, we'll have to keep our eyes on that, but overall, um they've been been spectacular numbers. Um, as I say, the biggest issue is going to be um, I think loans and mortgages and the housing market being soft in the US as it is up here in Canada. >> Jamie Diamond is always sandbagging his numbers, but then when they come out, they're just amazing and he's always talking down the economy, but every time we see numbers coming out of the US economy, they're always better than expected. Uh, I want to ask you about valuations. Now um I recently read a report from a research firm called macro strategy partnership and they said the AI bubble is 17 times larger than the dot bubble four times larger than what we saw with the subprime bubble but what are your thoughts about valuations right now and do you have any concerns about what we're seeing especially in the AI sector? Yeah, I mean the overall the overall valuations are absolutely at the high end and there's no question about that and that has been basically um um you know because of AI that's been the one that's been encouraging the market and and there's a handful of companies that do trade at incredibly high valuation. So that's that's been a concern of ours now going back a couple of years which has made us more conservative in terms of our um asset allocation. We've kept uh some cash around as we've talked about in the past. uh we've done exceptionally well because we've had large positions in precious metals and some of the areas that have done very well. Um so that has not held us back in terms of performance relative to the overall markets. But no, the valuations are high and um I don't think they're sustainable at this level. And so I you know we we caution our investors to be very careful that AI will no doubt transform our society and the way we do things. But um you know you can't just put an infinite price on these these securities. they ultimately have to trade at uh valuations that will justify a return on invested capital. And so with the amount of capital that's going in, it's hard to see that they're going to be generating the kinds of rates of return that they are traditionally have generated um in these companies. So in other words, you take Google or Amazon and you take um uh uh you know, Nvidia of course um you know, yeah, I mean these are amazing companies and they are growing very quickly, but um you you have to uh again adjust for what is reasonable price. I mean, if you're going to overpay, you're you can get your head handed to us. We've seen this before. Um prices can come come back even on great and successful companies. Um so, we're cautious, we're careful, we're warning people. S&P is pretty close to 30 times earnings. As you know, it's much healthier if it's 18 to 20 um in this environment. So, that's you know, probably 50% overvaluation. So, um again, we caution people. We value investors. So, we kind of look try to look below the hood and find try to find areas that are more appropriately valued and um that's the business that we're in. >> I recently attended a conference in Toronto where Howard Leutnik was speaking and he was talking about the strength of the US economy and how it's currently trading around 3% plus and he wouldn't be surprised if it grew to 4% in 2026. What are your thoughts on that? And do you have any concerns about the US economy? Well, I mean, the US economy, if you if you think about what's taking place down in the US, again, I'm up here in Canada looking down south of me. Um, I mean, it's amazing the transition that's taking place. Now, that doesn't again, we'll talk about some of the challenges in a second, but if if you're in a country that's attracting the kind of capital that Donald Trump is attracting back into the ca into the country and you're, you know, lowering taxes and you're lowering regulations and you're making it easier for companies to develop the resources in the country and so on, that is a recipe for growth. That's a recipe for success. That's a recipe for a growing economy. Those are all the things that uh a smart person would want to be doing in in an economy. So I think that is incredibly positive for the US. The amount of money that uh that they're talking about coming back coming into the US. I mean they're talking about 10 15 20 up to 20 trillion dollars of capital over the next number of years. That is massive amount of money coming back into the country. I mean you're talking about over 50 cents on every dollar of capital investments going back into the United States which uh is is phenomenal. Um so um I think all of those bode well for the US. They're also cleaning up you know their borders. I mean, I know some people talk about, you know, you know, illegals being lower costs, but if you're putting the money back into your own people, and even if wages are going up, but you're now employing your own people and you're bringing manufacturing back into your country, those are all positives. I don't I don't buy the the nonsense that a lot of economists are saying. The bigger challenge for the US though is it does have to balance its budget. I mean, it's it's running a $2 trillion deficit on revenue that's between5 and 6 trillion. It's got unfunded liabilities as you know that is 100 trillion or more um depending on what who you're looking at. Uh a def a debt that's 37 38 trillion and so on. So these are imbalances that they are going to have to get um back into you know some kind of balance and uh from our perspective that will require uh a lower currency and um you know a you know in some some type of inflation um so adjustment that's why we own the precious metals. But if you look at the US economy and you compare it to other economies in the world, I think it's going to be by far the strongest. And that's just simply because they got money coming in, they they're doing everything right in terms of the economics, in terms of the country. Um you look around the world, um boy, you look at Europe, especially Western Europe, it's abysmal. You look up here in Canada, the policies that our government's pursuing are just unbelievably destructive of our country. So, um, yeah. So, I I'm much more positive on the US as a Canadian looking down and looking at what's happening in in America. Again, that doesn't mean there aren't challenges, of course, but overall, I think it's probably by far the best place to invest if you can find businesses trading at reasonable valuations. >> Well, it's amazing when you go back just a year ago and uh there was so much concern about the US economy. It was going to fall into a recession, especially with trade wars and and uh it was going to create a lot of um job losses, etc. But here we are like a year later and there's no stopping this economy. So you touched on the Canadian economy and seeing how you and I both reside here, why don't we talk about that? And uh before we talk about >> but I just want to touch on the TSX composite. It's up 20% on the year and and for the most part it's it's doing okay. You you talked about the strength of the precious metals companies. Uh the financials are also doing well. Royal Banks up 20% on the year. TD's up 40% on the year. The last time you and I spoke, you did express some concern about the Canadian financials. What are your thoughts now? Has anything changed? >> Yeah, I mean, we we don't have an awful lot in the Canadian financials. They've done exceptionally well, and that's fine. I'm glad they are doing well because they're a backbone to the Canadian economy. Um, and they provide the finances and capital for the economy. Um, we've just find other areas that we would prefer to invest in. And I do think that again the housing market in Canada is very weak. Um and that could again cause further problems in terms of credit issues for some of our banks. But the TSX in terms of our stock market has done well because of materials also. I mean as you pointed out it's done very well. But a lot of the businesses on the TX TSX are they might be traded in Canada but they're largely North American and even global businesses. So a lot of them are making money outside of Canada and they're very successful at it. or their commodities and the commodities as you know have done very well and that's all US dollar denominated type businesses. Um so um that's I think the reason why the TSX is probably uh not indicative of the main street in Canada and what's going on in the main street. There's really a dichotomy between the two uh on main street. We're going to continue to feel a lot of pain across the country um because of policies, but the the TSX and some of the Canadian and businesses which are global businesses or doing a lot of business in the United States or commodity oriented, those are doing quite well. Yeah. >> This October, Wealthians putting the spotlight on silver with expert interviews, deep analysis, and a special in-depth report from our partners at SCP Resource Finance. To receive this report and other exclusive benefits, you can sign up to become an accredited investor with Wealthon at wealthon.comacredited or by finding the link in the description below. Speaking of silver, Wealthon will be on the ground in Toronto for the SCP Resource Finance Second Global Silver Conference happening on Thursday, October 23rd. Legendary investor Eric Sprat headlines the event alongside 15 silver mining companies presenting their top projects. It's a must attend for anyone serious about investing in silver. Tickets both in person and virtual are now available. Find out more in the description below. >> Valid points. And just to provide a little more context for our viewers, especially our American viewers, uh the Canadian economy, the GDP in 2024 was 1.6% 6%. In Q1 of this year, it grew at 0.5%. Q2, it actually went negative at 0.4%. A lot of that has to do with the uncertainty associated with uh the trade war and also exports. But maybe you can just speak to the economy and where you think our government has gotten it wrong and and why the Canadian economy is so weak. >> Yeah, if you step back and you look at the overall economy, this is both proincially and federally. Overall, we're a country with too many regulations, too much red tape, and taxes are too high. Um, and so you're going to be put a strangle hold on capital increasing your cost of money right right off the bat. Then if you look at the federal government um which is a li has been a liberal government since 2015 um they have passed six pieces of legislation six major pieces of legislation between 2015 and 2024 that really throttle the oil and gas sector as as well as the resource sector in general. And so that throttling of the uh of the resource sector especially oil and gas which is a is at the heart of the Canadian economy in terms of growth and prosperity and creating wealth has meant that again according to top estimates we've missed out on about $670 billion that has not gone into projects in terms of investments is left the country or it hasn't come into the country and the other capitals left the country and so what we're what we're finding is we're just not getting the investments in our country. So you put a socialist regime, a social welfare system across our country and then you're not creating the wealth to pay for it and then you flood in immigrants at a rate that is unprecedented. I mean you're talking about uh uh you know on a base of 40 million people over a million people a year. Um so just a large large number and there's no way you can possibly grow GDP uh at the rate necessary to sustain the wealth of the people in the country. And that's why, as you point out, those numbers, we're seeing very little growth in GDP. But when you adjust for per capita, per person, it's actually negative. I would also argue that if you actually adjusted for real inflation, because you're using government inflation numbers that you're adjusting those GDP numbers with, if you if you took real inflation, which I think is twice twice as high, if not more than the real numbers, I think we've seen severe negative GDP growth in this country on a per person basis now for 10 years. And that's why Canadians are really feeling it. Um, and they're feeling the pressure and we've seen an increase in uh, you know, bread lines and people homelessness and all all of the things that you're going to get in a country um, when you're not creating the wealth. And so it's really a top-down Liberal government. I would put the the the fault at the Liberal government, NDP government. These are two parties in Canada which are left of center um in really throttling and choking off um our most important resource in wealth creation which is the development of the oil and gas sector and other resources in the country. Yeah, >> I agree with you 100% on what you said about inflation. It is I I just can't get over how resilient it's being. But if the government says the inflation rate is 3%, I just double it and assume it's 6% at a minimum. And I would also say the only thing saving us right now is the price of oil. Oil is trading around $60 a barrel. If it were to, you know, rip to 80 bucks or 100 bucks, and we've seen that happen before in a relatively short period of time, then that's it. Then we're really in for a lot of trouble. >> We We were in a we're in a country also that really is gripped. It's gripped by a green ideology and a radical environmentalism at the at the government level, the federal government level, uh the Liberals and NDP, similar to what Biden was promoting in the United States. So for the American listeners um and so that radical environmentalism has meant um carbon taxes. So they put carbon taxes both industrial on businesses they charge for the use of energy and also they had them on retail. So we were paying heavy carbon taxes at the gas pumps which put the price of gas up. Now that was that was a taken off because the Liberal government wanted to get back in power at the last election. But the problem is we've got these taxes all through the system. So we pay uh even with the oil prices down we're still paying a lot of a lot you know heavy price for our uh for our oil and gas when we go to the pumps and that of course filters through the whole industrial base and this makes us uh a huge disadvantage when it comes to manufacturing jobs and again that's why we're losing these manufacturing jobs in the United States to the opposite effect um you know Donald Trump and the f federal government down there is trying to get the energy costs down get regulation costs down get taxation costs down have 100% uh write offs of capital investments in your businesses. That is exactly what you need to spur economic growth. So in Canada, we're doing the exact opposite of what we should be doing. Donald Trump's doing a playbook on how do you how are you going to grow an economy? How are you going to develop the economy? He's following that playbook um 100%. So the contrast is quite stark. And again Europe, I think you know uh Western Europe is also following sort of a a similar globalist Canadian play playbook. and we see the results. They're devastating. Um, and if you are not going to develop your resources and you're going to follow a radical environmentalism, um, this is a massive, massive cost and it's going to lead to more de-industrialization for some countries, whereas other countries are going to get all the manufacturing and do um, and get the industrialization back. And I think that's what you're going to see in the states over the next few years if they can sustain these policies. >> So, we talked about how the Canadian economy is weakening and this is coming through with to the unemployment numbers. We're seeing a constant uptick or growth in the unemployment rate. It's currently at 7.1% across the country. It's at 8% in the province of Ontario, the largest province in Canada, 15 million people. And in the city of Toronto, it's 9.9%. And then youth unemployment across the country is at 14.5%. So, we got some real issues here and it's only going to get worse. Where do you see the unemployment rate going later in 2026? Do you see us going into double digits? >> The unemployment I cannot see how the unemployment rate cannot go higher and probably substantially higher. Um and that if again you don't have capital flowing into your country. In fact, worse, you've got capital now leaving the country and you've got um jobs leaving the country. Um it's much more encouraging to go to the United States. That's where the capital is going to be treated well. That's where you're going to have lower taxes. You're going to make more money. And of course, uh Donald Trump is putting the pressure on businesses, too. So you put all that together and there's no way that we're going to see substantial amount of capital invested in this country. Uh and we're seeing this just recently. Uh Stellantis um a significant auto manufacturing up here in Canada um is moving u a lot of its facilities um down south of the border again. And that is not a surprise. That is very predictable. If you're Stalantis, you're not going to keep a lot of your manufacturing up here in Canada with the pressure that Trump is putting on. and also the the cost structure that we have in Canada is no longer competitive. Um it's much more competitive in the United States. So you put that together uh put those both those points together that you're getting encouragement from the US, you're getting pressures with tariffs. At the same time, you have a lower cost structure in the United States in more favorable terms uh from a capital perspective that those this leaves and so we that's 3,000 jobs in one one snap here in Ontario. So Ontario is going to see a significant reduction in our auto industry, auto parts, auto manufacturing, auto assembly. Um whether we like that or not, that's just the reality. And so uh um that that that in and of itself will have massive spin-offs. You as you know, that industry is very well-paying. Um and then you take jobs out and then you got all of the services around it, rest restaurants, all the other businesses that are involved um in a in a in a uh in a city. uh those businesses are going to suffer also. So I I see in the unemployment rate going up by a couple of points. Yeah, we could we could see some very high numbers over the next couple of years if we don't change policy. >> And just to provide some more background on how important the auto industry is in southern Ontario, it employs in the auto assembly industry 40,000 people directly. And then if you look at autos, trucks, and also supply chains, you're looking at 150,000 people. So it's a very important sector to this economy and uh I can only imagine Stalantis is the first company to do this and um you you did touch on this but just to provide some further numbers Stalantis said they're going to invest $13 billion over the next four years and that's going to create 5,000 jobs in the US. So uh I agree with you totally. We're going to see a lot more pain here in uh southern Ontario. >> Yeah. Yeah. And again, a lot of this is self-induced, though. I mean, we have we've, if you go back 30, 40 years in Ontario, for example, I mean, we are an incredibly efficient place. Energy costs were low, taxation was competitive. Um, our education standards were much higher, our health care system was actually functioning. Um, now you look at all of those areas and we've got problems in all of them. And so, um, we are going to pay up for our lethargy, for our poor management, our incompetence at, uh, at almost every level of, uh, of government. and uh and so we've gone from a real powerhouse uh to one that uh is is seriously lacking. So we need changes. We need dramatic changes and we need leadership in the in in in Canada uh both provinially and also federally. And uh we're just we're not getting that to the extent that we need. We've got some good leadership I think in Alberta, Saskatchewan, um some good leadership out west. Um but we need a change in government in Ottawa um as quickly as possible. And uh and we need to put business people back in. We need a we need a free market capitalist economy uh to take advantage of the massive resources we have that create the wealth that's necessary. See, what people don't appreciate is if you get into a de a redistribute redistribution and you focus on just how are we going to redistribute assets and you don't focus on production, then you're going to have a lot less to redistribute because people don't produce what is going to be taken from them and they don't invest and they don't uh you know stay in that country um if they think their assets are going to be stolen from and that's basically what we're seeing in Canada and we're going to have a flight out of this country both in terms of brain drain some of our top talent and our our capital our jobs. Um, and this this will have a a lasting um impact on our country if we don't make these if we don't make dramatic changes quickly. >> And I think we should also state that the at the federal level we have a a Liberal government, but at the provincial it's conservative. And uh but even Premier Ford um the premier of Ontario, I gotta say, I think the guy's doing a horrendous job. Like he's just grandstanding all the time. everything he does is just for headlines. Uh it's not helping the situation at all. I think his actions are only making it worse. >> Yeah. We what we have in Canada with uh with Doug, Premier Doug Ford, is that he's what would be called a sort of a rhino in the United States, Republican in name only. So he calls himself a conservative, but he's not a conservative. It's simple as that. His policies, you judge a person by the fruit, right? You judge a tree by its fruit. You judge a person by its actions um and policies. and his policies have been left to center and they've not been positive for the business community in Ontario. And um so what we need again is true leadership um that will restore a free market um and uh and and and free movement of capital and uh and more efficient uh more efficient bureaucracy. Bureaucracy needs to shrink where again we're seeing this in the United States. The first thing that Donald Trump has tried to do is shrink the bureaucracy. You've got to cut back the bureaucracy. It's too big. it strangles the private sector. Um, and uh, we've seen that again in in Western Europe. We've seen it in, you know, any country that adopts socialism, the state, the, you know, the public sector becomes too large. Um, and it just basically swallows up the, uh, the private sector and, uh, and you don't get the wealth creation that you need. >> If you're looking for a simple, secure way to invest and own physical gold and silver, visit our sister company, Hard Assets Alliance, at hardassallalliance.com. That's hardassallallalliance.com. >> So, in the last few minutes, you and I have discussed the the weakness within the Canadian economy and and where we think it's going in the coming months and the coming years, and it sounds like we're in for some pain, but how would you how do you and your team at Rocklink suggest you build your portfolio in this environment? So, maybe you're not making money, but at the same time, you want to protect your money. >> Yeah, great question. And I mean, we're fortunate. We're in a business where we can move the capital all around the world. And so we're we're parked just south of Toronto and uh that's wonderful. And um but we don't we can take Canadian dollars, Canadian money, Canadian investors dollars and invest that all around the world. And so that's what we're doing. So we're not uh we have some great Canadian companies, but most of them are operating um throughout North America or global businesses. We're trying to do is find businesses that are in preferred sectors. you know, sectors where there's underlying growth trends, um, secular growth opportunities. So, as we've talked about before, um, looking in the technology space, one area in technology that's been weak the last year or two is is software. Um, some of the software businesses have have really underperformed. And, uh, so we're in that space looking at businesses that, you know, continue to grow 8 n% a year and yet the stocks have done nothing the last two years. Um, and they're they're creating lots of free cash flow. We have one company called Rober Technologies which is a great business and we're shocked at uh that its valuation and the fact that it's really gone nowhere in the last couple of years despite growing in a consistent way. So looking for growth sectors um in uh we have some in the healthc care space that's another area that's been very weak. Um Danahare thermofisher you know big manufacturers of uh equipment medical equipment people again have poohoo that whole healthc care sector that's underperformed. Um we've got some that is exposed to um the data centers. I mean the data centers we have about 12,000 in the world now and they're telling us we're going to have about 90,000 by 2050 but whether we get the 90,000 or not we're going to have a lot more than 12,000. Um and so uh you know we Snider Electric um some of the Brookfield assets are building um out the data centers and so you can get exposure to that sector without necessarily owning Nvidia. Um other areas include the precious metals. Um, we, as we've talked about before, one of the concerns we have is just the global buildup of debt, which is unsustainable, including the United States, which again is doing a lot of right things in terms of building its economy, but it's it's still overspending, and it's heavily indebted. Um, Canada overspending. We're we're getting a budget next month. I hate to see that one. Uh, the UK is in abysmal financial position. I mean their debt to GDP has quadrupled over the last uh sort of 15 16 years or so. It it's just crazy what's going on in the UK. France is is on the edge uh on the brink too. Um so when you look around the world uh we want to own precious metals even though gold and silver have gone up quite a bit. We just cannot see any path forward where fiat currency does not continue to lose purchasing power over the next number of years. So, uh, we're heavily invested in that space and we've been rewarded and we're careful. We know it doesn't go in a straight line and, uh, so we're looking for any kind of pullbacks, we might add some more, but, uh, to being disciplined in that area also. So, those are some of the areas that we're again just picking off adding, uh, investments and looking for really solid, well-run companies with smart people who um, you know, can navigate challenging environment. >> And Jonathan, when you say you're heavily invested in precious metals, uh, can you quantify that? Yeah, we have uh uh pretty close to probably about 28% of our our assets um in precious metals and in some cases because we're carrying some cash. If you look at our waiting as a percentage of our equities, sort of our active investment, I I'm using the interestbearing securities as a bit more inactive, you know, short-term just interest bearing stocks. Um it could be much higher than 30%. So, we're we're carrying um unusually high weights in the precious metals visa v most of our competitors and and we've we've built these positions over the last 15 years. It's not like we've just added them last, you know, last uh um you know, two years or something like that. We've been very, you crisis and some of the challenges with with our money for some time, but we've just continued to add and build larger positions over time. And uh so we own a lot of the royalty companies and we've also gone downstream in the royalty companies. We bought some of the mid-tier and some of the smaller ones. Just just before this call, I was on on a call with the CFO of one of the mid-tier um uh royalty companies that we're looking at now. So again, just trying to find value wherever we can and uh good solid growth um in in that space. >> And what about silver? Do you own any silver producers? We have Paname um and uh we know wheat and precious metals is probably about still 40% or so uh silver um and and uh we have so we have a couple smaller you know silver positions um silver is also embedded in a number of the royalty companies as uh as they do you know their GEOs their their gold equivalents um so yes we have some exposure to silver it's we have it a little bit an ETF um I don't generally buy ETFs we buy individual stocks but uh we do have one of the brought silver minor ETFs because that again just gives us a smattering of silver companies so we don't have to be uh precisely wrong if we get a wrong company. Um but yeah, silver is intriguing as as you know um there appears to be some sub substantial shortages, physical shortages and that's one that we're watching and just see if there's more opportunities there because as as we know over the years this is one reason why we've been in the space but we've always gone for physical or either buying the businesses or having the physical assets one for one. um and that is that the paper markets are ridiculously large and uh have I think kept the price down of of both gold and silver and uh if people do require some of that bullion um I think it could really scare the paper markets and the paper markets could be exposed as as I think the fraud that they are in many cases. So, uh, we could see some substantial moves in silver and, uh, continued growth in in the gold because of that is people look for the true value of what these really should be trading at, not just the derivatives and uh, um, that are that are flipped on the market. >> Yes. And 75% of all silver is produced as a byproduct. So, it's very tough to find pure silver producers and that's why it's probably best to look at an ETF as you suggest it. Well, Jonathan, I have >> Well, yeah. And one one last point. I mean again you look at the the the growth in digitization the data centers all of this long-term trend and so forth. I mean over the next ex next 25 years as best as possible we're going to need about 100% increase in the production of of silver uh by 2050 if some of these trends continue. Now again maybe they don't continue to the same extent but the reality is we need a lot more silver and it's not easy to come by. Um so you know silver production has not been growing in any substantial way over the last number of years and so again there's going to be some shortages in some of these uh very strategic commodities uh including some of the precious metals. So um from our perspective that provides opportunities we just have to be able to understand what we pay for it and what are the best bit best ways to get exposure to it. >> Well Jonathan I always enjoy our discussions and I want to thank you very much for spending time with us today. If any of our viewers, our Canadian viewers would like to have a chat with you or another member of your team about how they can protect their portfolios in the coming years, who should they reach out to or where can they find out more information? >> Yes, you we really appreciate that. We've had some uh wonderful people come through wealthy on and uh we'll give a free free checkup for anybody who uh approaches us and give you an idea of what your existing portfolio looks like and how we would fine-tune that and alter it and personalize that for your own needs based upon your risk tolerances. So yeah, reach out to us. Probably our website's the best uh um rocklink.com ro kl i nc. So linkwithc.com and if you email us at info info@rocklink.com we'll respond right away and uh and have a great discussion with you. So by all means reach out if you have any kind of questions or if you want a second opinion on your existing, you know, your current financial position. Um that's what we're here for and we'd love to work with the clients. >> And we should also mention there's no obligation. >> Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, no obligation. Uh no fee. you come in and uh we'll again evaluate the situation and uh and tell you what we would do and no pressure if you if you like it then uh we'll take you on. If you don't then you can continue doing what you're doing >> and it's always good to get a second opinion. Jonathan, once again, thank you. >> Thank you very much, Jimmy. All the best. [Music]
Jonathan Wellum: The Great Divide – U.S. Strength, Canadian Decline, and the AI Bubble & Gold Play
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That is a recipe for growth. That's a recipe for success. That's a recipe for a growing economy. Those are all the things that uh a smart person would want to be doing in in an economy. So I think that is incredibly positive for the US. We've missed out on about $670 billion that has not gone into projects in terms of investments that other capitals left the country. So you put a socialist regime, a social welfare system across our country and then you're not creating the wealth to pay for it. [Music] Don't forget to sign up for a free portfolio review with one of our endorsed investment partners at wealthon.com/free. With markets hitting all-time highs, now is a great time to stress test your strategy and be prepared for what comes next. Jonathan, thank you so much for joining us today. How are things in the great city of Toronto? >> Well, they're plotting along in Toronto. Uh probably at a slower rate than I would like. Uh we're trying to get more money back into the city and trying to get some economic growth here in Canada. So, that's the that's the challenge that we're facing in this country. >> I always enjoy speaking with a fellow Canadian and I do want to have a discussion with you on Canada and what's happening with that economy. But before we do so, I got to tackle the US first. There's so much going on there and we are in the beginnings of the Q3 earnings season and so far we've seen all the earnings out of the major US banks and for the most part they've been they hit the ball right out of the park and they're all trading at or near all-time highs. City's up 40% on the year. JP Morgan is up 30% on the year. Goldman Sachs is up 30% on the year and it looks like we've seen a big resurgence in M&A IPOs and advisory. But what's your take so far on the earnings we've seen out of the US financials? >> Well, the numbers have been, as you pointed out, exceptional, especially as you say in the investment banking and uh the different, you know, a lot of transactions going on. I mean, underneath the hood, there's still the concerns of course for consumer debt and uh write offs and the mortgage mortgages and uh mortgage debt and so forth. And that uh that I think is is acting as somewhat of a drag even with the stocks going up quite a bit. But overall, I mean, the US economy has been pretty robust and uh and the, you know, the J, you know, the leaders at the different banks are speaking in fairly glowing terms in terms of uh opportunities going forward and not too many problems that they see in the horizon. I mean, uh Jamie Diamond was talking about the employment situation being a little weaker and things like that. So, we'll have to keep our eyes on that, but overall, um they've been been spectacular numbers. Um, as I say, the biggest issue is going to be um, I think loans and mortgages and the housing market being soft in the US as it is up here in Canada. >> Jamie Diamond is always sandbagging his numbers, but then when they come out, they're just amazing and he's always talking down the economy, but every time we see numbers coming out of the US economy, they're always better than expected. Uh, I want to ask you about valuations. Now um I recently read a report from a research firm called macro strategy partnership and they said the AI bubble is 17 times larger than the dot bubble four times larger than what we saw with the subprime bubble but what are your thoughts about valuations right now and do you have any concerns about what we're seeing especially in the AI sector? Yeah, I mean the overall the overall valuations are absolutely at the high end and there's no question about that and that has been basically um um you know because of AI that's been the one that's been encouraging the market and and there's a handful of companies that do trade at incredibly high valuation. So that's that's been a concern of ours now going back a couple of years which has made us more conservative in terms of our um asset allocation. We've kept uh some cash around as we've talked about in the past. uh we've done exceptionally well because we've had large positions in precious metals and some of the areas that have done very well. Um so that has not held us back in terms of performance relative to the overall markets. But no, the valuations are high and um I don't think they're sustainable at this level. And so I you know we we caution our investors to be very careful that AI will no doubt transform our society and the way we do things. But um you know you can't just put an infinite price on these these securities. they ultimately have to trade at uh valuations that will justify a return on invested capital. And so with the amount of capital that's going in, it's hard to see that they're going to be generating the kinds of rates of return that they are traditionally have generated um in these companies. So in other words, you take Google or Amazon and you take um uh uh you know, Nvidia of course um you know, yeah, I mean these are amazing companies and they are growing very quickly, but um you you have to uh again adjust for what is reasonable price. I mean, if you're going to overpay, you're you can get your head handed to us. We've seen this before. Um prices can come come back even on great and successful companies. Um so, we're cautious, we're careful, we're warning people. S&P is pretty close to 30 times earnings. As you know, it's much healthier if it's 18 to 20 um in this environment. So, that's you know, probably 50% overvaluation. So, um again, we caution people. We value investors. So, we kind of look try to look below the hood and find try to find areas that are more appropriately valued and um that's the business that we're in. >> I recently attended a conference in Toronto where Howard Leutnik was speaking and he was talking about the strength of the US economy and how it's currently trading around 3% plus and he wouldn't be surprised if it grew to 4% in 2026. What are your thoughts on that? And do you have any concerns about the US economy? Well, I mean, the US economy, if you if you think about what's taking place down in the US, again, I'm up here in Canada looking down south of me. Um, I mean, it's amazing the transition that's taking place. Now, that doesn't again, we'll talk about some of the challenges in a second, but if if you're in a country that's attracting the kind of capital that Donald Trump is attracting back into the ca into the country and you're, you know, lowering taxes and you're lowering regulations and you're making it easier for companies to develop the resources in the country and so on, that is a recipe for growth. That's a recipe for success. That's a recipe for a growing economy. Those are all the things that uh a smart person would want to be doing in in an economy. So I think that is incredibly positive for the US. The amount of money that uh that they're talking about coming back coming into the US. I mean they're talking about 10 15 20 up to 20 trillion dollars of capital over the next number of years. That is massive amount of money coming back into the country. I mean you're talking about over 50 cents on every dollar of capital investments going back into the United States which uh is is phenomenal. Um so um I think all of those bode well for the US. They're also cleaning up you know their borders. I mean, I know some people talk about, you know, you know, illegals being lower costs, but if you're putting the money back into your own people, and even if wages are going up, but you're now employing your own people and you're bringing manufacturing back into your country, those are all positives. I don't I don't buy the the nonsense that a lot of economists are saying. The bigger challenge for the US though is it does have to balance its budget. I mean, it's it's running a $2 trillion deficit on revenue that's between5 and 6 trillion. It's got unfunded liabilities as you know that is 100 trillion or more um depending on what who you're looking at. Uh a def a debt that's 37 38 trillion and so on. So these are imbalances that they are going to have to get um back into you know some kind of balance and uh from our perspective that will require uh a lower currency and um you know a you know in some some type of inflation um so adjustment that's why we own the precious metals. But if you look at the US economy and you compare it to other economies in the world, I think it's going to be by far the strongest. And that's just simply because they got money coming in, they they're doing everything right in terms of the economics, in terms of the country. Um you look around the world, um boy, you look at Europe, especially Western Europe, it's abysmal. You look up here in Canada, the policies that our government's pursuing are just unbelievably destructive of our country. So, um, yeah. So, I I'm much more positive on the US as a Canadian looking down and looking at what's happening in in America. Again, that doesn't mean there aren't challenges, of course, but overall, I think it's probably by far the best place to invest if you can find businesses trading at reasonable valuations. >> Well, it's amazing when you go back just a year ago and uh there was so much concern about the US economy. It was going to fall into a recession, especially with trade wars and and uh it was going to create a lot of um job losses, etc. But here we are like a year later and there's no stopping this economy. So you touched on the Canadian economy and seeing how you and I both reside here, why don't we talk about that? And uh before we talk about >> but I just want to touch on the TSX composite. It's up 20% on the year and and for the most part it's it's doing okay. You you talked about the strength of the precious metals companies. Uh the financials are also doing well. Royal Banks up 20% on the year. TD's up 40% on the year. The last time you and I spoke, you did express some concern about the Canadian financials. What are your thoughts now? Has anything changed? >> Yeah, I mean, we we don't have an awful lot in the Canadian financials. They've done exceptionally well, and that's fine. I'm glad they are doing well because they're a backbone to the Canadian economy. Um, and they provide the finances and capital for the economy. Um, we've just find other areas that we would prefer to invest in. And I do think that again the housing market in Canada is very weak. Um and that could again cause further problems in terms of credit issues for some of our banks. But the TSX in terms of our stock market has done well because of materials also. I mean as you pointed out it's done very well. But a lot of the businesses on the TX TSX are they might be traded in Canada but they're largely North American and even global businesses. So a lot of them are making money outside of Canada and they're very successful at it. or their commodities and the commodities as you know have done very well and that's all US dollar denominated type businesses. Um so um that's I think the reason why the TSX is probably uh not indicative of the main street in Canada and what's going on in the main street. There's really a dichotomy between the two uh on main street. We're going to continue to feel a lot of pain across the country um because of policies, but the the TSX and some of the Canadian and businesses which are global businesses or doing a lot of business in the United States or commodity oriented, those are doing quite well. Yeah. >> This October, Wealthians putting the spotlight on silver with expert interviews, deep analysis, and a special in-depth report from our partners at SCP Resource Finance. To receive this report and other exclusive benefits, you can sign up to become an accredited investor with Wealthon at wealthon.comacredited or by finding the link in the description below. Speaking of silver, Wealthon will be on the ground in Toronto for the SCP Resource Finance Second Global Silver Conference happening on Thursday, October 23rd. Legendary investor Eric Sprat headlines the event alongside 15 silver mining companies presenting their top projects. It's a must attend for anyone serious about investing in silver. Tickets both in person and virtual are now available. Find out more in the description below. >> Valid points. And just to provide a little more context for our viewers, especially our American viewers, uh the Canadian economy, the GDP in 2024 was 1.6% 6%. In Q1 of this year, it grew at 0.5%. Q2, it actually went negative at 0.4%. A lot of that has to do with the uncertainty associated with uh the trade war and also exports. But maybe you can just speak to the economy and where you think our government has gotten it wrong and and why the Canadian economy is so weak. >> Yeah, if you step back and you look at the overall economy, this is both proincially and federally. Overall, we're a country with too many regulations, too much red tape, and taxes are too high. Um, and so you're going to be put a strangle hold on capital increasing your cost of money right right off the bat. Then if you look at the federal government um which is a li has been a liberal government since 2015 um they have passed six pieces of legislation six major pieces of legislation between 2015 and 2024 that really throttle the oil and gas sector as as well as the resource sector in general. And so that throttling of the uh of the resource sector especially oil and gas which is a is at the heart of the Canadian economy in terms of growth and prosperity and creating wealth has meant that again according to top estimates we've missed out on about $670 billion that has not gone into projects in terms of investments is left the country or it hasn't come into the country and the other capitals left the country and so what we're what we're finding is we're just not getting the investments in our country. So you put a socialist regime, a social welfare system across our country and then you're not creating the wealth to pay for it and then you flood in immigrants at a rate that is unprecedented. I mean you're talking about uh uh you know on a base of 40 million people over a million people a year. Um so just a large large number and there's no way you can possibly grow GDP uh at the rate necessary to sustain the wealth of the people in the country. And that's why, as you point out, those numbers, we're seeing very little growth in GDP. But when you adjust for per capita, per person, it's actually negative. I would also argue that if you actually adjusted for real inflation, because you're using government inflation numbers that you're adjusting those GDP numbers with, if you if you took real inflation, which I think is twice twice as high, if not more than the real numbers, I think we've seen severe negative GDP growth in this country on a per person basis now for 10 years. And that's why Canadians are really feeling it. Um, and they're feeling the pressure and we've seen an increase in uh, you know, bread lines and people homelessness and all all of the things that you're going to get in a country um, when you're not creating the wealth. And so it's really a top-down Liberal government. I would put the the the fault at the Liberal government, NDP government. These are two parties in Canada which are left of center um in really throttling and choking off um our most important resource in wealth creation which is the development of the oil and gas sector and other resources in the country. Yeah, >> I agree with you 100% on what you said about inflation. It is I I just can't get over how resilient it's being. But if the government says the inflation rate is 3%, I just double it and assume it's 6% at a minimum. And I would also say the only thing saving us right now is the price of oil. Oil is trading around $60 a barrel. If it were to, you know, rip to 80 bucks or 100 bucks, and we've seen that happen before in a relatively short period of time, then that's it. Then we're really in for a lot of trouble. >> We We were in a we're in a country also that really is gripped. It's gripped by a green ideology and a radical environmentalism at the at the government level, the federal government level, uh the Liberals and NDP, similar to what Biden was promoting in the United States. So for the American listeners um and so that radical environmentalism has meant um carbon taxes. So they put carbon taxes both industrial on businesses they charge for the use of energy and also they had them on retail. So we were paying heavy carbon taxes at the gas pumps which put the price of gas up. Now that was that was a taken off because the Liberal government wanted to get back in power at the last election. But the problem is we've got these taxes all through the system. So we pay uh even with the oil prices down we're still paying a lot of a lot you know heavy price for our uh for our oil and gas when we go to the pumps and that of course filters through the whole industrial base and this makes us uh a huge disadvantage when it comes to manufacturing jobs and again that's why we're losing these manufacturing jobs in the United States to the opposite effect um you know Donald Trump and the f federal government down there is trying to get the energy costs down get regulation costs down get taxation costs down have 100% uh write offs of capital investments in your businesses. That is exactly what you need to spur economic growth. So in Canada, we're doing the exact opposite of what we should be doing. Donald Trump's doing a playbook on how do you how are you going to grow an economy? How are you going to develop the economy? He's following that playbook um 100%. So the contrast is quite stark. And again Europe, I think you know uh Western Europe is also following sort of a a similar globalist Canadian play playbook. and we see the results. They're devastating. Um, and if you are not going to develop your resources and you're going to follow a radical environmentalism, um, this is a massive, massive cost and it's going to lead to more de-industrialization for some countries, whereas other countries are going to get all the manufacturing and do um, and get the industrialization back. And I think that's what you're going to see in the states over the next few years if they can sustain these policies. >> So, we talked about how the Canadian economy is weakening and this is coming through with to the unemployment numbers. We're seeing a constant uptick or growth in the unemployment rate. It's currently at 7.1% across the country. It's at 8% in the province of Ontario, the largest province in Canada, 15 million people. And in the city of Toronto, it's 9.9%. And then youth unemployment across the country is at 14.5%. So, we got some real issues here and it's only going to get worse. Where do you see the unemployment rate going later in 2026? Do you see us going into double digits? >> The unemployment I cannot see how the unemployment rate cannot go higher and probably substantially higher. Um and that if again you don't have capital flowing into your country. In fact, worse, you've got capital now leaving the country and you've got um jobs leaving the country. Um it's much more encouraging to go to the United States. That's where the capital is going to be treated well. That's where you're going to have lower taxes. You're going to make more money. And of course, uh Donald Trump is putting the pressure on businesses, too. So you put all that together and there's no way that we're going to see substantial amount of capital invested in this country. Uh and we're seeing this just recently. Uh Stellantis um a significant auto manufacturing up here in Canada um is moving u a lot of its facilities um down south of the border again. And that is not a surprise. That is very predictable. If you're Stalantis, you're not going to keep a lot of your manufacturing up here in Canada with the pressure that Trump is putting on. and also the the cost structure that we have in Canada is no longer competitive. Um it's much more competitive in the United States. So you put that together uh put those both those points together that you're getting encouragement from the US, you're getting pressures with tariffs. At the same time, you have a lower cost structure in the United States in more favorable terms uh from a capital perspective that those this leaves and so we that's 3,000 jobs in one one snap here in Ontario. So Ontario is going to see a significant reduction in our auto industry, auto parts, auto manufacturing, auto assembly. Um whether we like that or not, that's just the reality. And so uh um that that that in and of itself will have massive spin-offs. You as you know, that industry is very well-paying. Um and then you take jobs out and then you got all of the services around it, rest restaurants, all the other businesses that are involved um in a in a in a uh in a city. uh those businesses are going to suffer also. So I I see in the unemployment rate going up by a couple of points. Yeah, we could we could see some very high numbers over the next couple of years if we don't change policy. >> And just to provide some more background on how important the auto industry is in southern Ontario, it employs in the auto assembly industry 40,000 people directly. And then if you look at autos, trucks, and also supply chains, you're looking at 150,000 people. So it's a very important sector to this economy and uh I can only imagine Stalantis is the first company to do this and um you you did touch on this but just to provide some further numbers Stalantis said they're going to invest $13 billion over the next four years and that's going to create 5,000 jobs in the US. So uh I agree with you totally. We're going to see a lot more pain here in uh southern Ontario. >> Yeah. Yeah. And again, a lot of this is self-induced, though. I mean, we have we've, if you go back 30, 40 years in Ontario, for example, I mean, we are an incredibly efficient place. Energy costs were low, taxation was competitive. Um, our education standards were much higher, our health care system was actually functioning. Um, now you look at all of those areas and we've got problems in all of them. And so, um, we are going to pay up for our lethargy, for our poor management, our incompetence at, uh, at almost every level of, uh, of government. and uh and so we've gone from a real powerhouse uh to one that uh is is seriously lacking. So we need changes. We need dramatic changes and we need leadership in the in in in Canada uh both provinially and also federally. And uh we're just we're not getting that to the extent that we need. We've got some good leadership I think in Alberta, Saskatchewan, um some good leadership out west. Um but we need a change in government in Ottawa um as quickly as possible. And uh and we need to put business people back in. We need a we need a free market capitalist economy uh to take advantage of the massive resources we have that create the wealth that's necessary. See, what people don't appreciate is if you get into a de a redistribute redistribution and you focus on just how are we going to redistribute assets and you don't focus on production, then you're going to have a lot less to redistribute because people don't produce what is going to be taken from them and they don't invest and they don't uh you know stay in that country um if they think their assets are going to be stolen from and that's basically what we're seeing in Canada and we're going to have a flight out of this country both in terms of brain drain some of our top talent and our our capital our jobs. Um, and this this will have a a lasting um impact on our country if we don't make these if we don't make dramatic changes quickly. >> And I think we should also state that the at the federal level we have a a Liberal government, but at the provincial it's conservative. And uh but even Premier Ford um the premier of Ontario, I gotta say, I think the guy's doing a horrendous job. Like he's just grandstanding all the time. everything he does is just for headlines. Uh it's not helping the situation at all. I think his actions are only making it worse. >> Yeah. We what we have in Canada with uh with Doug, Premier Doug Ford, is that he's what would be called a sort of a rhino in the United States, Republican in name only. So he calls himself a conservative, but he's not a conservative. It's simple as that. His policies, you judge a person by the fruit, right? You judge a tree by its fruit. You judge a person by its actions um and policies. and his policies have been left to center and they've not been positive for the business community in Ontario. And um so what we need again is true leadership um that will restore a free market um and uh and and and free movement of capital and uh and more efficient uh more efficient bureaucracy. Bureaucracy needs to shrink where again we're seeing this in the United States. The first thing that Donald Trump has tried to do is shrink the bureaucracy. You've got to cut back the bureaucracy. It's too big. it strangles the private sector. Um, and uh, we've seen that again in in Western Europe. We've seen it in, you know, any country that adopts socialism, the state, the, you know, the public sector becomes too large. Um, and it just basically swallows up the, uh, the private sector and, uh, and you don't get the wealth creation that you need. >> If you're looking for a simple, secure way to invest and own physical gold and silver, visit our sister company, Hard Assets Alliance, at hardassallalliance.com. That's hardassallallalliance.com. >> So, in the last few minutes, you and I have discussed the the weakness within the Canadian economy and and where we think it's going in the coming months and the coming years, and it sounds like we're in for some pain, but how would you how do you and your team at Rocklink suggest you build your portfolio in this environment? So, maybe you're not making money, but at the same time, you want to protect your money. >> Yeah, great question. And I mean, we're fortunate. We're in a business where we can move the capital all around the world. And so we're we're parked just south of Toronto and uh that's wonderful. And um but we don't we can take Canadian dollars, Canadian money, Canadian investors dollars and invest that all around the world. And so that's what we're doing. So we're not uh we have some great Canadian companies, but most of them are operating um throughout North America or global businesses. We're trying to do is find businesses that are in preferred sectors. you know, sectors where there's underlying growth trends, um, secular growth opportunities. So, as we've talked about before, um, looking in the technology space, one area in technology that's been weak the last year or two is is software. Um, some of the software businesses have have really underperformed. And, uh, so we're in that space looking at businesses that, you know, continue to grow 8 n% a year and yet the stocks have done nothing the last two years. Um, and they're they're creating lots of free cash flow. We have one company called Rober Technologies which is a great business and we're shocked at uh that its valuation and the fact that it's really gone nowhere in the last couple of years despite growing in a consistent way. So looking for growth sectors um in uh we have some in the healthc care space that's another area that's been very weak. Um Danahare thermofisher you know big manufacturers of uh equipment medical equipment people again have poohoo that whole healthc care sector that's underperformed. Um we've got some that is exposed to um the data centers. I mean the data centers we have about 12,000 in the world now and they're telling us we're going to have about 90,000 by 2050 but whether we get the 90,000 or not we're going to have a lot more than 12,000. Um and so uh you know we Snider Electric um some of the Brookfield assets are building um out the data centers and so you can get exposure to that sector without necessarily owning Nvidia. Um other areas include the precious metals. Um, we, as we've talked about before, one of the concerns we have is just the global buildup of debt, which is unsustainable, including the United States, which again is doing a lot of right things in terms of building its economy, but it's it's still overspending, and it's heavily indebted. Um, Canada overspending. We're we're getting a budget next month. I hate to see that one. Uh, the UK is in abysmal financial position. I mean their debt to GDP has quadrupled over the last uh sort of 15 16 years or so. It it's just crazy what's going on in the UK. France is is on the edge uh on the brink too. Um so when you look around the world uh we want to own precious metals even though gold and silver have gone up quite a bit. We just cannot see any path forward where fiat currency does not continue to lose purchasing power over the next number of years. So, uh, we're heavily invested in that space and we've been rewarded and we're careful. We know it doesn't go in a straight line and, uh, so we're looking for any kind of pullbacks, we might add some more, but, uh, to being disciplined in that area also. So, those are some of the areas that we're again just picking off adding, uh, investments and looking for really solid, well-run companies with smart people who um, you know, can navigate challenging environment. >> And Jonathan, when you say you're heavily invested in precious metals, uh, can you quantify that? Yeah, we have uh uh pretty close to probably about 28% of our our assets um in precious metals and in some cases because we're carrying some cash. If you look at our waiting as a percentage of our equities, sort of our active investment, I I'm using the interestbearing securities as a bit more inactive, you know, short-term just interest bearing stocks. Um it could be much higher than 30%. So, we're we're carrying um unusually high weights in the precious metals visa v most of our competitors and and we've we've built these positions over the last 15 years. It's not like we've just added them last, you know, last uh um you know, two years or something like that. We've been very, you crisis and some of the challenges with with our money for some time, but we've just continued to add and build larger positions over time. And uh so we own a lot of the royalty companies and we've also gone downstream in the royalty companies. We bought some of the mid-tier and some of the smaller ones. Just just before this call, I was on on a call with the CFO of one of the mid-tier um uh royalty companies that we're looking at now. So again, just trying to find value wherever we can and uh good solid growth um in in that space. >> And what about silver? Do you own any silver producers? We have Paname um and uh we know wheat and precious metals is probably about still 40% or so uh silver um and and uh we have so we have a couple smaller you know silver positions um silver is also embedded in a number of the royalty companies as uh as they do you know their GEOs their their gold equivalents um so yes we have some exposure to silver it's we have it a little bit an ETF um I don't generally buy ETFs we buy individual stocks but uh we do have one of the brought silver minor ETFs because that again just gives us a smattering of silver companies so we don't have to be uh precisely wrong if we get a wrong company. Um but yeah, silver is intriguing as as you know um there appears to be some sub substantial shortages, physical shortages and that's one that we're watching and just see if there's more opportunities there because as as we know over the years this is one reason why we've been in the space but we've always gone for physical or either buying the businesses or having the physical assets one for one. um and that is that the paper markets are ridiculously large and uh have I think kept the price down of of both gold and silver and uh if people do require some of that bullion um I think it could really scare the paper markets and the paper markets could be exposed as as I think the fraud that they are in many cases. So, uh, we could see some substantial moves in silver and, uh, continued growth in in the gold because of that is people look for the true value of what these really should be trading at, not just the derivatives and uh, um, that are that are flipped on the market. >> Yes. And 75% of all silver is produced as a byproduct. So, it's very tough to find pure silver producers and that's why it's probably best to look at an ETF as you suggest it. Well, Jonathan, I have >> Well, yeah. And one one last point. I mean again you look at the the the growth in digitization the data centers all of this long-term trend and so forth. I mean over the next ex next 25 years as best as possible we're going to need about 100% increase in the production of of silver uh by 2050 if some of these trends continue. Now again maybe they don't continue to the same extent but the reality is we need a lot more silver and it's not easy to come by. Um so you know silver production has not been growing in any substantial way over the last number of years and so again there's going to be some shortages in some of these uh very strategic commodities uh including some of the precious metals. So um from our perspective that provides opportunities we just have to be able to understand what we pay for it and what are the best bit best ways to get exposure to it. >> Well Jonathan I always enjoy our discussions and I want to thank you very much for spending time with us today. If any of our viewers, our Canadian viewers would like to have a chat with you or another member of your team about how they can protect their portfolios in the coming years, who should they reach out to or where can they find out more information? >> Yes, you we really appreciate that. We've had some uh wonderful people come through wealthy on and uh we'll give a free free checkup for anybody who uh approaches us and give you an idea of what your existing portfolio looks like and how we would fine-tune that and alter it and personalize that for your own needs based upon your risk tolerances. So yeah, reach out to us. Probably our website's the best uh um rocklink.com ro kl i nc. So linkwithc.com and if you email us at info info@rocklink.com we'll respond right away and uh and have a great discussion with you. So by all means reach out if you have any kind of questions or if you want a second opinion on your existing, you know, your current financial position. Um that's what we're here for and we'd love to work with the clients. >> And we should also mention there's no obligation. >> Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, no obligation. Uh no fee. you come in and uh we'll again evaluate the situation and uh and tell you what we would do and no pressure if you if you like it then uh we'll take you on. If you don't then you can continue doing what you're doing >> and it's always good to get a second opinion. Jonathan, once again, thank you. >> Thank you very much, Jimmy. All the best. [Music]