Event Insights: The podcast focused on the recent Mises Institute Supporter Summit in Delray, Florida, highlighting the importance of face-to-face interactions with donors and the invigorating discussions that took place.
Donor Engagement: Emphasized the diverse and intelligent donor base of the Mises Institute, contrasting it with other think tanks that rely on single large donors, and the value of having passionate supporters of Austrian economics.
Lecture Highlights: Key lectures included discussions on economic liberty, currency competition, and strategies for ending the Federal Reserve, showcasing a range of topics from Austrian economics to libertarian political economy.
Market Insights: Alex Pollock's talk on gold and crypto highlighted the growing demand for gold among international banks, demonstrating its role as international money, and the importance of currency competition.
Content and Media: The Mises Institute's commitment to providing free, human-written content was discussed, with a focus on the impact of their website and the importance of maintaining a platform for diverse economic ideas.
Research and Publications: The podcast touched on upcoming research conferences and the opportunity for both academics and non-academics to present their work, emphasizing the Institute's role in fostering new economic research.
Historical Perspectives: Discussions included the historical narrative battles within economic thought, particularly the progressive narrative and its impact on current economic policies and perceptions.
Future Events: Upcoming events such as the Grand Rapids event on economic challenges for Gen Z and the Rothbard University were announced, highlighting the Institute's ongoing educational initiatives.
Transcript
Welcome back to Power and Market. I am your host today though Bishop. This is not a normal show. You might notice we do are not joined by Ryan McMaken, executive editor of mises.org. He is on assignment. So we are joined today by Mr. Connor O'Keefe who has our usual Wednesday morning article and Joshua Mahorder who's got our usual Friday article along with being part of our editorial team. And uh the purpose of power and market is to talk about some important events of the day. But this episode is going to be a little bit different. We're going to talk about last week's supporter summit down in beautiful Delray, Florida. Um we had a lot of attention placed on that. We could obviously talk about the government shutdown, but you know, every day that doesn't have the government uh in full operation is a good thing. We we've hit that on on issues passed, we could talk about a few of the other news items out there, but our focus has been on the supporter summit. And so, we're going to just going to talk a little bit about that event, about u what makes it special to uh to work at the Mises Institute, the great people that uh we are very privileged to uh to have the support of. And so it's going to be a little bit of just uh you know guys talking about what the MIS Institute means to us for this particular episode. Um send us an email if uh if you are a listener to power and market. We want to get some feedback from you as well. Was very good to see so many of our donors who were big big fans. Um big Connor O'Keefe fan club fan club building. Always good to see. Um so we'll open up there. How did you guys enjoy Del Rey? >> It was excellent. I I love supporters summit. It's such a it's a fun event. Of course, we tend to go to nice locations. Um and this was a beautiful resort we were at in Delray, but um overall, I just find it very like it it uh invigorating, I guess, like to to interact with our donors face to face. and our donors are they're just so like I especially when you kind of dip into the more political world um and parts of the libertarian world there there's a lot of weirdos out there a lot of people that are you know >> I think every every libertarian knows what you mean every everyone has that lived experience >> we've all had that lived experience but um it just I'm just always kind of blown away by the uh the intelligence um of the the people that show up at these events. And um I think also what one thing I love about this organization is unlike a lot of think tanks out there um where they're essentially being bankrolled by like one billionaire or a foreign government, we uh that is not the case for us. We have a lot of donors, a lot of different donors. And rather than, you know, the this kind of like snobby person that's using us to sort of push policy that's beneficial to them that we're sort of serving, we just have these smart, interested people that are just as passionate about all these ideas as we are and um are, you know, allowing us to do what we do. And it's nice to have an event where we can be face to face with them and uh hopefully, you know, give them a a good time in a in a beautiful spot. >> How about you Josh? What was your takeaway from Del Rey? Yeah, it was a great time. Uh nice to meet a lot of the donors and see people from work, you know, working remotely. Don't always get to see uh co-workers every day, but uh just get together and I I had never been to the supporters summit before. So, it was a great time. Um I found the the lectures to be great each one that uh that came up which each one was, you know, uniquely sponsored by one of the supporters or the donors. I was like wanting to research into it, read about it, think more about it, and then each next one came up, I was like, well, now I want to move on to this and talk about. So, it was uh great um great content, but it was nice to meet uh meet some of the people, talk to them, and uh as Connor said, really just the uh is a unique thing because I I found it kind of hard to as I've worked at the Mises Institute for a little over a year to describe sometimes what it is I do. Like I sometimes use the term, you know, think tank, but I'm like, well, not quite. But, uh, really it's it's a research institute. It's a research center that's dedicated to Austrian economics and libertarian political economy and these things. And so, it doesn't, as Connor said, fall into just being funded by, well, the donors set the agenda for what the institute is. they they're just genuinely supporting um Austrian economics, uh sound money, peace, and um and getting the state out of uh people's people's lives. And so it's u it's fun to talk to those people and you know they have a um they come from all different types of of backgrounds and uh and everyone was just really nice, really welcoming. they they wanted to talk to you, talk about what you did there and uh you know it's it's their support really that I'm thankful for. It just makes my job possible to be living the dream working at the Mises Institute. So um so it was a lot of fun. It was a lot of fun. The my only uh complaint was my wife wasn't able to come on this trip. So it was you know but uh I was like this would have been a nice one to to bring her too. So maybe next year. Well, my one complaint um is I don't think uh Murray would have been a big fan of Del Rey because all the bars closed at like 11 o'clock. Like the latest opening bar was like was like the hotel bar, which I did put good use to but like that closed at midnight and so I was like, you know, if if Rothbart was here, like where you got to get his, you know, 3:00 a.m. martini somewhere. >> Um you couldn't even find like a good diner. Um so I don't think Rothbart would approve of of Del Rey, but it was a beautiful city, walkable city. Uh we even got out in the inter coastal waterway for a little bit which is uh which is great. Um and one of the things I like about the supporter summit is um and I go some of the content um that we had there which will be coming up on uh our various media channels so you too can see if you were not privileged enough to be there. Um but the the great thing about the supporter summit is that we have some of our big names right you know you get your Gita Hollesman coming in from an which you know is is not always the easiest thing to do. you know, you get your uh I always loved Alex Pollock. I'm going to brag about him here in a second as well, but uh you know, you get our our who's who list and they have a lot of flexibility in what they talk about. Um like this, you know, theme for this one was economic liberty. You can go a lot of different directions for it. People went a lot of different directions for that. Um but it's it's different than aisu lecture, right? You where you're you know there's there's certain sort of checks in a curriculum you're trying to check. Um different than some of our you know our research conferences. You're presenting papers. because you got a few keynote events but most of you know but you you you know the presenting like a new research thing can often often be very almost narrow in what you're presenting there though also a great time um obviously when we had uh you know like our human action conference or war revisionism conference there's a very prescribed sort of topic there that everyone's working in but it's always kind of interesting to see you know how um our our biggest names our our shining lights um kind of the the angles that they take um with the you know what it kind of within a broader team on what they think is important in today's day and age. Um really enjoyed uh Patrick Newman had a great talk about uh strategy for like Rothbartian strategy, you know, how do we actually uh you know create more economic liberty um that that we're talking about there. Uh my favorite talk I alluded to a little bit earlier was Alex Pollock on Hayek and money. Um and uh the point he made at the end which was an obvious point like you I don't want to pretend that you know some profound um insight and and I don't think uh Alex took it as such either but um you know his big focus was on um gold crypto um you know the the breaking away from government monopolies on currencies and the like the way that's reflected in prices currently today. Uh if you're a gold holder you're doing quite quite well. Um and uh but the extent to which the increased demand for gold amongst international banks, how like the banks themselves, how they're operating is demonstrating, you know, gold as that sort of international money by by their own behaviors there. Um which again I think it's it's it's an obvious insight, but I think it's a great one. Obviously very important one, one that you're not going to get at many other events outside of the Austrian orbit. Um but Alex, he he just he he he presents as what like an economist should be. like he's just he's he's you know he's he's got you great great insight. He's always very uh you know speaks with a certain sort of uh gentlemanly you know he's a fun gentlemanly sort of persona there. So always a big fan of Alex Pollock. Uh Connor I know you were working the camera and uh making sure that our content was getting to our viewers uh later. So I know you did not get to really dive into a lot of the content there. But Josh um who are some of the highlights for you out of our starstudded uh schedule? >> Yeah, I agree. Um the Dr. Pollock was one of the earlier talks and he was actually newer to me like I didn't know uh until I um saw him in the Mises Fed documentary and then uh last year supporters summit watching it online. Um, so his his talk about just money and currency competition and really just the simple insight at the end of not having to say it has to be gold, not having it say it has to be cryptocurrency or Bitcoin or silver or anything, but just saying allow market competition and people would abandon the state system of money uh that's monopolized right now and allow currency competition and let the market choose uh what to use as money. So that was very good and and Dr. Pollock's very uh very nice, very personable. Uh I emailed him last year for a few quotes that he had given in his talk last year and uh between he and I, he was able to email me say okay I gathered it from this book. I was able to find the footnote somewhere online and so that was kind of fun to have some of that back and forth. So that one was good. But I was just kind of even look reviewing the list. Um Dr. written hour talked about freedom as a tonic for social conflict. So, you know, rather than uh right now there's a lot of even if the word isn't used, this this focus on uh kind of this class consciousness Marxist idea that that all the differences between people are something that is necessarily political and what divides them. Um and he talks about no that it's actually freedom and interaction peacefully that uh that lessens uh conflict. Um there are a few others. I always enjoy uh Dr. ters on uh land management or even things that people think are kind of innocuous or kind of outside of the uh well we know that markets work for these things but really you know we can't have um national parks and public land be uh handled by the free market and so why I I was encouraged by that is um it's what differentiates the Mises Institute and Austrian economics and um at least this type of Rothbartian libertarianism is not um we're we're okay with the free market up to this degree and then maybe the conservative Republicans go a little further. They're okay with with it up to this degree, but then there's all this other stuff that's um that that wouldn't work for. uh and so they come along with uh examples and economic theory and history and current events to say no the free market absolutely does work in these cases and here's why and here's how state interventions uh worsen the situation. So I always u like that kind type of talk because it um I don't want to say makes it okay to be a libertarian but just encourages you that you're not crazy outside you know just thinking some radical thing that's so um uh so ridiculous but actually something that uh that no the free market works in these cases as well. And there's one example he brought up uh where there was a fire on the west coast where like you could see like two, you know, there's there was a government land management and government park on one side and the other one was a large park that was managed by a a non-government entity and like how you can just tell like afterwards like from you looking down at the devastation afterwards like you can very clearly identify which kind of like the equivalent of like the uh like internet access in Korea map like you can see exactly where that political border sort of pops in. I I do think some of those examples in particular were so vivid like that were very helpful to make some of those points. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Yeah, I was paying a little bit of attention to the talks. So I, you know, I have to kind of bring myself out of it to make sure everything that people can hear and important things like that. Um, one one that I enjoyed a lot was uh Jonathan Newman's. He gave one called How How We End the Fed, I think, or how to end the Fed essentially. And I just I like that because so often I think we're framed as sort of these naive pie in the sky thinkers that want these like impossible goals and like yeah okay maybe people will concede that if we didn't have a Fed that's great that would be great but like how do we actually get there? And so he gave in just like 20 minutes uh a talk just walking through like no what are some action steps that we could actually take if rough bardians took you know control um what would they actually do and like that that's helpful for us to be able to talk through uh with people. So that was a good one. And then I also liked uh Dr. And Joya's talk on uh civil rights and kind of looking back at some some early southern literature that was in fact uh uh sounded a whole lot like what um MLK basically you the same language that he used in his famous I have a dream speech was found in some what was it like the Charleston Observer or something basically doing what she always does and just kind of shattering the the mythology around a lot of those topics that are just they're built up that are very um helpful to the to the progressive cause and so I'm just always a big fan of her lectures too. >> Yes, always a highlight. Always do kn do very well on on YouTube afterwards uh as as well. Um yeah, Jonathan's lecture was great. Um I also like that he kind of threw in um some kind of reforms in the end. Again, hate to be just a public fanboy, but uh he was up in DC a couple weeks ago at the House Financial Services Committee talking about Fed reform, and so we kind of added some of uh some of his suggestions there. Um, which I thought was a nice little nice little addition to um, of course, you know, it's interesting that the people that are are there um, we we had a a a gentleman that works in u financial services that uh, came here from Australia and it was his first time's event. he lived uh right down the road there um from uh uh from Del Rey and he talked about like how like you know you one of the many many CO refugees that we've had come through our orbit um but uh you know how like the first year in Australia like it was actually okay like they they didn't have a lot of travel outside the island and so like it was like oh you can go see go to places that usually tourists just sort of uh creep demand down and then then how quickly that went away as soon as uh as soon as you started having outbreaks there um and how how glad he was to be in Florida for the rest of that time, which I can certainly uh appreciate there. But like the the amount of people within like the financial services committee, not committee, but like the financial services industry um you know, a lot of a lot of fun conversations about the Middle Ages um was uh I know Ryan McM um if he was here, he would be talking a lot about the the rise of the tax state. Um, another another fun topic, but uh it was always always fun to see how many people want to talk about the Middle Ages >> in an event like this. You normally don't get a lot of that uh that sort of discussion anywhere else from my experience. Any other standout experiences from uh from talking with folks? Well, I did enjoy the um the brief panel between Ryan uh Bill Anderson and uh Peter Klene on kind of the 30th anniversary of uh mises.org since that's you know kind of what I work doing is helping edit uh the pieces on there. Um but it was just nice to hear from from kind of all of them with uh you know Dr. Klein had kind of started the original format of the the website and then you know gathering articles and pieces on there which really I guess wasn't done in that same way and then um Ryan also had just some good insights of u just you know what the site is for and what it's about and he kind of took the time to contrast you know um so much is being done with AI and you know there's potential for AI and lots of things but that uh that our content is free, that it's on uh it's on message, and it's not um and it's human written. I mean, it's not, you know, we're not going to have a bunch of just AI sites writing and, you know, and I actually have uh bots online now that people are commenting back and forth with who are AI and now at a certain point it'll be bots commenting against bots. But anyway, and then hearing from Bill, um, he's he's, you know, been kind of in and out, uh, with Mises. So, he's he he said that he only worked there since 2022 or 23, something like that. But, but, you know, he's been, um, active with Mises.org a lot longer than that. And, uh, so, um, so anyway, it was nice to hear his uh, his experience. And so, he said, you know, that that was um, you know, very influential for him. um uh also just in in kind of building his writing and building his career. He was a journalism major and uh and an economics professor and was getting his his PhD which he eventually did at Auburn. But uh the mises.org and the writing regularly and and getting uh paid he was um was key like supplemental income but also uh was just instrumental in his his career. So, um, so anyway, now he's, you know, the I don't know if I want to use, it's an appropriate term, a gatekeeper of what goes on to Mises and, uh, cares about, you know, what we, you know, what fits with the page. And so, um, so anyway, it was kind of fun just to hear through from them some stuff I kind of knew about the history of the um, of the page. Um, and then just thinking back to, you know, my job and potentially your guys' jobs, depending on all that you do, uh, may not have been possible 30 years ago, you know, just all that has, you know, has changed now. 30 years ago, I was was two, but, you know, still like >> Yeah. We would have been sending out episodes of Power and Market via cassette tape back in those days, >> right? Yeah. Or we'd be have a radio show, I guess. But yeah, it's so really things have uh have changed to facilitate, you know, and make possible um new jobs and there you know there's something there a lesson there about the the vision of labor and the you know how markets uh grow and and develop and uh and we didn't and not everybody became unemployed when there were new technologies and new jobs and you know we didn't all uh you know we didn't need a universal basic income and you know >> yeah I I also enjoyed especially that part of the uh uh Peter's part of the uh panel when he he showed pictures of like the early misuses.org and told the story of how the site actually started which I had never heard before. So I enjoyed that a lot. I also enjoyed the the keynote um address from James Board as well. Was it was a good time >> and I I think it was was it uh during the introduction when Sandy Klein like introduced him by reading out all of the government officials who have denounced him and it's like the postmaster general and like all these random things and people were applauding that. That was a good way to start a speech and it was a good time. >> Yeah. Bart's always a good time. I I'm upset I did not have a cigar with him as I did last time he had he'd come to Auburn, but uh always the next time. Always next time. Um yeah, but the the uh the mis.org thing I think is really interesting because like you know being in this orbit like often like one of the big surprising things like oh well you actually have more than just a website like that's just how big influential misa.org you know, has been with the brand understandably so with like, you know, just, you know, all the books and things like that, but it's it's that's often like, oh man, like particularly when they come to Auburn, it's like, oh man, like this is such an incredible building, such an incredible campus. Like I thought you guys were just a website, but like no, we were much much more. >> Well, and how did you how did you guys uh first discover me.org actually? >> Oh, sorry. That's what Yeah. What I actually was thinking of as you were saying that um you you know through Ron Paul in 2012 some guys at college had told me about Ron Paul and I was like okay so he's not Democrat not a leftist but not a traditional Republican. Okay. I kind of like what he's saying. And then I had gone through college hadn't heard more about him really since 2012. And you know was was being challenged at college as a political science major. um and you know kind of conservative um and uh which was good for me but then I kind of found you know a lot of the conservative movement when I try to read their books and things um now there's more to it than I than I probably realize there's Russell Kirks and things like that but I was like the kind of contemporary conservatives if I try to read their books they don't have a lot of research they don't have a lot of footnotes and then the left has a lot of the you know academ so I kind of tried looking up on YouTube. Well, let's see if there's any like adjacent, you know, Ron Paul type of type of people. And um I found I think Tom Woods, the Tom Wood Show. And then I found mises.org. And at that time I was trying to just gather um resources on economics, politics, philosophy, you know, just different things knowing, you know, I wanted to be a teacher. And I realized that uh mises.org or had all these books that were rigorous, that had footnotes, that had details. Um, and they were free. And I was like, "Oh my gosh, who knows how long this is going to be there." You know, I didn't know it was it had been there that long. And so I started downloading and actually saving uh all the books. So that was back in 2015 or so. Um, and then, you know, given circumstances a decade later, I'm actually working at the Mises Institute. So it's uh you know kind of cool to see you know what what takes place after um 10 years of of time. But yeah so it if it wasn't for mises.org and the resources there um I wouldn't have and the videos that are that are put out by Mises as well lectures and different things I wouldn't have uh discovered Mises and then obviously wouldn't have been working for Mises as well. >> It's a similar story. >> Yeah >> a similar story for me. I was a geology major in college. Um, so all my reading about economics was on the side and I got very obsessed with it my freshman year, which was I started in 2015, fall of 2015. I decided I had to, you know, figure out what my political views were before the 2016 election because it was the first time I was going to be voting. So I started really diving into it and I I pretty quickly got converted to the free market uh by converted by free market ideas. um got very interested in that and then as I sort of progressed through college I was looking for books on you know economics especially that I was economics first I kind of found the political stuff later and um you know being a college student I couldn't just buy every book I wanted to uh or that I encountered and as I was looking around for books like the Misesus was the one place that had the free PDF version of all these things and so of course like just I think because that was available, it walked me from just sort of a general free market perspective kind of down the Rothbartian rabbit hole, which is I mean that and of course, you know, now I've I've landed here. Um, but that's a a large reason that I have so much appreciation for the donors that we were um interacting with last week because I I think that's just so powerful. The fact that we put these books out for free um try to, you know, lower the the the costs for the people that might be kind of curious about these ideas. I think um that's certainly something that sets us apart and you know biased by my own experience I think it's an incredibly effective uh approach. I >> also think that it's a platform for people to you out there in the wilderness that are consuming these ideas to be able to publish stuff on because I remember um I I first came across m.org probably 2011ish. No, probably 2010, I think. Um, you know, which was kind of a, you know, interesting uh uh area, you know, post uh, you know, that was uh, you know, continuing of the of the Ron Paul revolution at the time, obviously after financial crisis and and all that sort of fun stuff. Very very big big time for for Ashon. And uh then for for a little bit like what was really interesting at the time uh I don't know uh it was probably a little bit before you Connor but Josh I don't know how much time you spent on uh kind of the econ blogs >> like uh >> not a ton. Oh, that's it's fascinating cuz like uh like like within this space, right? So much of the good work so much of the the real gems were uh were econ blogs. The methle at the time was was a big part of that. Um but it was like in the comments section and you could see like a lot more engagement of like a professor professor on professor violence. Um like particular like uh uh I think Betty and Horowitz had I think coordination pro problem was their blog and like you go back there now like you know these these articles are like 12 years old but like you just see like the back and forth of like you know who kind of had the sharpen knife to kind of go after others like some I've got stronger opinions on than others. I'm not going to I'm going to leave that out out uh out of this episode. But there's so much good material. Like I what we need is someone who is interested in the the contemporary history of uh of economic thought and otherwise just comb through the the comment section of the blogs back in the day. But for for a little bit um the reason why a lot of those blogs, you know, kind of faded off is because they were so dependent upon academics. Like it was a blog by like you know two or three academics and whatever. And really a lot of the big ones um like even even ones kind of outside of our orbit like uh bleeding heart libertarians was like a big libertarian blog back in the day and I think it's it's uh largely defunct or at least not what it used to be and and there's a variety of others kind of fit that that approach. There's actually a period of time where the institute uh kind of rebooted um the front page was uh circle Bostonat I think was it was kind of an academic focused blog and we end up reverting back to to the model that we now know and love today. But like mises the the you mises.org is, I think, one of the few econ blogs that were big in that era that are still, you know, pretty high traffic website today. And I think a big part of that is precisely because it's not simply within the gatekeep of scholars per se, though we love our scholars, particularly when they they publish on mis.org, but uh but like it's it's it's precisely the fact that it provides opportunities for others um you know, people with different skill sets. Like I I love getting a u a money and banking article from someone who is a trader, you know, is uh in with a D, not a T. Um but uh you know, who who are active, you know, got real skin in the game, who are moving markets, if you will. Always my my best insight out there. And you can't get that if you have a very narrow sort of academic gatekeeping device, >> right? It's about the ideas, not the the credentials. >> Yeah. >> Necessarily, which is also it also makes it a great place to to get your start if you're like a college student, too. We accept a lot of articles from them. It's just, you know, if it's good writing and, you know, the the arguments or sounds, then then it seems that we run. I don't I'm not in the editorial side of it, but that seems to be kind of the the the vision of the site. I joke with Bill a little bit that I you know uh before when I sent my first pieces and I sent them into Ryan um McMakin and Daniel Labassi. So I I didn't know Bill and then I hadn't done one in a while. So I would send him when I get this article from this guy Bill and I didn't know Bill and so I was kind of like I don't know who this is. It's kind of funny we work together now. Um but sometimes I would get you know on a tear. I'd write you know be writing one. I'm like okay that was a good one. I have momentum. Let me write another one. I'd write two a week and Bill would have to give me the okay, let's pump the brakes. And so I joke that like, well, to in order to get to publish, you know, as much as I wanted, I had to had to get hired and work at at the Mises Institute, you know, to get Bill to to accept all of them. But uh so anyway, I don't do two a week know that now. That would be that' probably be too much for >> Yeah, they've contain you to one a week. >> Yeah, one a week. But um but yeah, no, it is great to be able to um take in and kind of people we we keep track of on our our spreadsheet when we take in articles of people who do they have a profile yet, meaning they've written for us before and they're known to us or are they they new to us? So it's always nice to see somebody from like Misesu or you know some other conference or something that or you know maybe it's just an unknown person to us that will send us something and um and then uh kind of see the even the growth process of okay this is their first article and uh you know whatever level that they're they're at it has to be you know obviously um uh accepted by uh by us for for going on the site But um but then also kind of see them get into a groove and and uh over time even turn in some u some regular stuff and then there are people who've become um kind of some of our regulars our regular writers that we kind of expect to see something from a couple times a month. So um so yeah it's kind of interesting to see that that process of uh and it gives people you know just practice um practice writing uh not for a grade not for something that's trying to you're you are trying to um get it accepted but you're not trying to uh achieve a grade you're actually trying to think and and articulate thoughts which I think is going to be even more important given the rise of uh of AI and other things of, you know, no, it's actually, you know, our writers should actually be proud that they're they're the ones putting together um their thoughts and um and explaining and thinking through things. So, um so anyway, but yeah, that's that's kind of a fun process to see. Well, any anything uh I know we were we were announcing our big uh event lineup next year. We got a lot of things going on. But before we get to the end of the year, Connor, you're you're going to be up in uh Grand Rapids uh starting next month. November 1st. >> Yeah, November 1st. Yeah. We're we're putting on an event basically about how the um the economy, the current economic system is just screwing over Gen Z and it should be fun. It's a little different than what we've done before. We do a lot of these circles, these events where we kind of go on the road and, you know, bring a few scholars to give some talks and it's open to the general public, but this is specifically for students at Cornerstone and and surrounding universities. Um, so kind of blending that uh that like public kind of on the road event with our student programs. That's sort of the vision of this. And this is uh our first trial run and yeah I'll be uh speaking there um and working on my talk now. I'm I'm talking essentially about um the title of my talk is something to the effect of rejecting the siren call of right-wing progressivism is what I'm calling it. And I think I think there's a lot of you could kind of there's sort of the the right-wingers or they brand themselves as right-wingers who are really pushing for uh more government intervention and on on various fronts. And I really viewed that as at the end of the day they completely accept the progressive narrative of economic history, what I call the New York Times view of economic history. And so I think that um it it really at the end of the day is a historical narrative battle on that front. And I just I I think I I see some of those ideas getting popular with um young people understandably. I I think that a lot of it is a branding thing. The the status quo has been branded as free market capitalism, free trade, various stuff. And that's not true. So um that's a little bit what I'm I'm going to be trying to speak to in my talk. But yeah, very excited. >> Excellent. Excellent. Josh, are you going to be at the Ash economics research conference next year? >> Yes. Yeah, I'm planning uh to be there. Uh, you know, all things being equal, I need to get >> presenting anything. Got any papers in the works? >> Uh, some papers. I have one in um that I've written some articles that are adjacent to is kind of, you know, help it's helping me research a little bit. um really about disproving uh charterism in colonial America and it's you know it's really easy I mean so the moned monetary theory MMT has this idea that um that government chose money and by its declaration money became money and that's where um where it came from and they say all these you know things about well you know all these people make up this fantasized story about barter leading to a medium of exchange that becomes money. And um so they they say that, but then they usually look back to examples in, you know, uh 4,000 years ago in ancient Mesopotamia to try to use vague things um to try to prove that uh that money was was a product of the state, not of the free market. Um which is then convenient because then the money can, you know, be shaped to be whatever the state says it is. Um, the problem with that is MMT's favorite example of where they think modern monetary theory would work is is um the United States. And uh so I have kind of a simple task. It's almost I I guess not fair, but I do think it's worth looking into of saying, well, the United States isn't that old and we are a, you know, we're a literate uh culture with, you know, with writing used to be at least >> and at least we Yeah, we're, you know, that's declining, but but um we have documentation of uh goods being exchanged on a barter economy and then becoming generally accepted media of exchange and then becoming uh becoming money. And so you have things like shells, nails, tobacco, gold, and silver. Um and even I've just found in a um just a encyclopedia about colonial monetary history um which probably doesn't get read by that many people, but you know, I I'm into it right now of even just our English word currency in America. I found a book that says currency we come to think of it as as the money that we use but currency meant whatever was current used and accepted in trade. So it didn't actually mean money. The the very word currency which came to be synonymous with money actually meant whatever goods were acceptable in trade. And so just just the existence of things like that give you know give evidence that money emerged on the free market. So, so anyway, I'm trying to uh I I'll be over the next few months trying to put together um put together the the paper uh on that and uh and if we have the libertarian scholars conference, Connor and I floated the idea of uh maybe co-authoring a paper if we can work it out depending on our timing of uh called um it's more the concept of the government monopolizes something and then does nothing and lets uh lets chaos come in. So some people call that a narco tyranny, but that kind of gives a bad name to uh anarco. Um, and so the my working title that I called it was uh uh interventionist non-interventionism, meaning the government takes over something and then lets uh lets chaos reign and then either blames the free market to regulate more um and or or just lets um lets the situation uh continue to devolve. Uh so you get all the worst aspects of government uh tyranny, but then you also get um the it doesn't even manage the the services that were taxed uh to um for it to provide to us. >> Well, we brought up an example earlier with the the forest management. >> Yeah, I was going to >> there. The fact that the private lands like they don't want I mean a lot of times they they do want controlled burns. So it's not that they don't want fire, but they don't want these out of control infernos. And so they actually manage the land, but then government doesn't. And so then they are turned into these tinder boxes and then they, you know, explode into these huge wildfires that take out entire towns. And it's like that I I guess from our perspective, like that feels like the government kind of doing something even though they're not really doing something. And we're most interested in trying to work that into Rothbard's uh his three types of interventions. Where does it fit in there? It's a little bit different. Is it a combination or is it kind of its own thing? That's kind of what we're going to try to figure out. >> And similar government policy led to cities being caught on fire. So, a lot of fire involved dealing with failed government services, >> right? >> Yeah. Well, we talked about it with like the DC stuff essentially taking over the police departments and then just letting crime happen, >> right? It's the same thing. >> Yeah. Lots of examples of uh it's it's actually kind of, you know, be fun to get more more thinking on that because the once you kind of have that category, you're like, "Oh, yeah. They do do that with a lot of stuff." Even you could even think of just potholes on on the roads where it's like, well, they tax you, you pay for the roads, and then they don't maintain it. You know, that's that not quite the same, but it's it's all over the place. So, it's one of those things I feel like when you can once you see it, it's hard to unsee it. >> Excellent. Anything else on the media, Connor, that you got got cooking after your >> um I'm not sure about uh about uh paper. So I I presented a a paper that I have not finished um last year uh about making a specific argument that I hadn't really seen anybody else lay out that um when we talk about how terrible the media is that it really only is damaging to people because of the political system. And so I I laid that out. I gave a a talk that um that used a lot of that uh that argument during Misesu. So that's up on YouTube if anybody's interested. But um nothing specific in the works there in terms of another presentation. But who knows? >> And if you're a regular Mises Institute podcast listener and you want to uh you know you you you have the ambition to write an academic paper even if you're not in academia great place to present such work and ideas or at our two research conferences LSC and AERC. And then uh we also announced the Rothbart University which is going to be happening in uh uh May I believe in beautiful Auburn. If you've always wanted to do Mises University but you're no longer a student also take a look at that. So before we get out of here guys uh you guys you guys reading anything interesting Austrian non-Austrian >> you know something non >> Oh go ahead. >> Okay. Sorry. Uh something non-Austrian I'm reading right now is uh I'm actually listening to it um is a book about the Soviet space program called The Wrong Stuff. And it's just it's crazy like the I didn't know too much about the history there, but um it was just a complete and total mess. The the book is written in a way where it is quite funny. Um it's a good writer, John Strauss Burr or something like that. Um it should be easy to find if you type in the wrong stuff. I just don't remember his name. But it's also kind I I think from my perspective, somebody that's studied um the history of the right in a lot of ways, it's just interesting how um the the Soviet space program was a complete mess basically the entire time. It was all political. The their entire motivation was this propaganda war with the Americans. They were completely hiding all the failed tests and like even like the launch of Sputnik was I it was just a complete mess. So their their successes were also like basically miraculous miraculous successes. And um it's just interesting reading that and realizing that essentially all the the cold warriors um on our side on the American side were working with the propagandists on the uh Soviet side to act like they were this huge threat when they they did not have like the rocket uh technology to get to the United States. That's why they had to send rockets to Cuba because it was the only chance they had. Um and you know little things like they didn't use um uh titanium so their their rockets were incredibly heavy and like it just they talk about like the calculation problem like it was a total mess. So it it's an entertaining uh listen especially the audio book is quite good but uh that's what I've been listening to on my commutes. I hope you're going to tell us that Sputnik never happened. Become a Sputnik truther. >> That was also filmed on >> an interesting fact there. People talk about how uh you you could go out and watch Sputnik going overhead, but the thing was like the size of like a basketball or something. So, nobody saw Sputnik, but what the Russians did is they um painted like a chrome they used a chrome paint on the second stage rocket. Uh, so that's what people were actually seeing there because they they wanted the Americans to be able to go outside and actually see what was uh going overhead. And of course they had Sputnik beeping so that people could pick it up on the radio. That's essentially all it could do was beep. And they had to paint the rocket so people could see something because they could only get this tiny little like basketballized thing up there. >> How How about you Josh? In between colonial monetary history, what other page turners you got going on? Yeah. Well, actually, I'm uh revisiting a book that I've read quite some time ago, but um needed a little more attention. I actually had it here was the the myth of the Robert Barons by Burton Folsam. And uh if he's not an Austrian, he's he's very close. He's been mentioned um several times. Uh Tom Woods has done presentations on him. Patrick Newman um Tom Dorenzo uh mentioned probably is where I heard of this book from in How Capitalism Saved America. Um, but it's a very good uh history of the uh so-called robber barons and it's really more of a uh setting the record straight and a celebratory history of um true entrepreneurs and and Folsam makes a a distinction between market entrepreneurs who um actually used economic calculations, sought profit and uh became productive and efficient to serve uh the consumers really well and were rewarded because of it. And market entrepreneurs who uh used uh lobbying through through the government to gain uh subsidies to gain regulations to gain other things in order to um enrich themselves at the expense of the public rather than um serving them. So, I I'm planning on um we'll see, you know, how this pans out, but maybe doing a couple of articles. Um I I looked on mises.org and I said, "Well, surely someone has done an article on uh James J. Hill who created he was the only transcontinental bank uh uh railroad to never go bankrupt and not take a penny of government money." And all the subsidized railroads um took government money. They were paid by uh paid by the mile. So that you can imagine the incentives that being paid by the mile of track you creates. And uh they were all inefficient and bankrupt even with um with the government help. Uh and also bringing in the the army to go to war with the Indians which is where a lot of the western um violence between the settlers and the Indians uh comes from is actually the army. And um Hill didn't do any of that. He had a successful railroad, built a little bit more slowly and um never uh never went bankrupt, was cheaper, was more efficient, negotiated with with tribes uh peacefully, Indian tribes and uh so anyway, I was it's it's important because as Connor mentioned kind of the the issues of media and branding is um the progressive era has basically framed the debate and discussion for over a century. So that even when you have people who are friendly to the free market, they still work within a progressive paradigm where they say, "Well, let's, you know, there's the free market and then there's socialism. Let's meet somewhere in the middle, which as Mises says, the middle of the road meets leads to socialism." Because, you know, there were the robber barons. there were these people that uh were monopolizing um through the free market and and these things which just is not um is not true. So I think it's important uh to continue to uh set the record straight even if it even if we're preaching to the choir. choir is often the ones that that need to hear it that no, it's you can be um unashamed of uh of the free market and um enter that kind of discussion with confidence to say no, I'm I'm not embarrassed to say I don't want 70% free market. I want 100% free market. And uh and you should too. >> Yeah. Our crusade will not end until we remove Upton Sinclair's The Jungle from every uh middle school reading list. >> And that's what I wrote last week a little bit was that uh it's that it's fiction. It even influences us. Um nobody I don't you know people say that they've read uh the jungle. I've never read it but uh people will say that they you know but it in it for good or bad it has influenced their thinking even though it's totally fictional. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I've been reading uh Martin Van Beurren, the first politician by James Bradley. Very thorough. It was It's interesting that uh not many Van Beern biographies out there of any substance. So, this was this came out like last year. So, it's uh hot off the presses, but it's been pretty good. >> That reminds me too, I'm about halfway I think through um Burr by Gel, which you you recommended though, and it's wonderful. I was not really expecting it. I And Gorvidel doesn't >> lying to you. I wasn't expecting before you recommended it to be fair. Um it's ve a very Rothbartian view of of that time period and there because you know it's not that >> I guess I was a little worried B Gorvidel is framed as you know this far-left uh kind of lunatics. I was I was sort of expecting kind of a Howard Zin like let's just tear down the founding fathers because that's what we're going to do and like not a lot of new slavery like >> right stuff like that. But no, it's like like actually like very smart revisionism that I think is very based in reality and is is very Rothbartian and it's just it's a fun book and a fun way to sort of explore that time period through fiction. >> Yeah. Know big big fan of Vidal's work. Uh I think um what was his name? Um uh uh almost had it but we had a we have a great article uh very very extensive article uh on like the revisionism of Gorvida doll um on mises.org if anyone is Jeff Rickenbach the voice of uh many a Mises >> Mises audio book um but he he has a very interesting article on uh Burr and his particular brand of revisionism then the other book >> Gvidel you mean? Yeah. Yeah. On Gorall. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. His his brain of revisionism. Um which was good. The other one which is a little bit different is uh the why is everything which is about uh the Kyle Shanahan football coaching tree. Well Mike the Mike Shanahan coaching tree. So if you're interested in entrepreneurship applied to sports Mike Silver very good narrator there on that. So for our football fans which I know you know not always a direct overlap based off of how some of my football related me.org articles have performed but uh and there's a few out there. There's a few. But uh and with that being said, again, a little bit different power and market this week as we uh we get back to the the swing of things. >> We'll read up on the news for next week. We've been kind of off the grid >> a little bit. So next week, uh I expect Ryan will be be back with us. Um so no Josh next week probably. We'll see. Oh, it's a surprise. You never know what you're going to do when you click on power and market. So uh >> uh for Joshua Mahorder, for Connor, this has been Bishop. Thank you for listening. Proceed ever more boldly. Okay, that's a little
Memories of Delray and 30 Years of Mises.org
Summary
Transcript
Welcome back to Power and Market. I am your host today though Bishop. This is not a normal show. You might notice we do are not joined by Ryan McMaken, executive editor of mises.org. He is on assignment. So we are joined today by Mr. Connor O'Keefe who has our usual Wednesday morning article and Joshua Mahorder who's got our usual Friday article along with being part of our editorial team. And uh the purpose of power and market is to talk about some important events of the day. But this episode is going to be a little bit different. We're going to talk about last week's supporter summit down in beautiful Delray, Florida. Um we had a lot of attention placed on that. We could obviously talk about the government shutdown, but you know, every day that doesn't have the government uh in full operation is a good thing. We we've hit that on on issues passed, we could talk about a few of the other news items out there, but our focus has been on the supporter summit. And so, we're going to just going to talk a little bit about that event, about u what makes it special to uh to work at the Mises Institute, the great people that uh we are very privileged to uh to have the support of. And so it's going to be a little bit of just uh you know guys talking about what the MIS Institute means to us for this particular episode. Um send us an email if uh if you are a listener to power and market. We want to get some feedback from you as well. Was very good to see so many of our donors who were big big fans. Um big Connor O'Keefe fan club fan club building. Always good to see. Um so we'll open up there. How did you guys enjoy Del Rey? >> It was excellent. I I love supporters summit. It's such a it's a fun event. Of course, we tend to go to nice locations. Um and this was a beautiful resort we were at in Delray, but um overall, I just find it very like it it uh invigorating, I guess, like to to interact with our donors face to face. and our donors are they're just so like I especially when you kind of dip into the more political world um and parts of the libertarian world there there's a lot of weirdos out there a lot of people that are you know >> I think every every libertarian knows what you mean every everyone has that lived experience >> we've all had that lived experience but um it just I'm just always kind of blown away by the uh the intelligence um of the the people that show up at these events. And um I think also what one thing I love about this organization is unlike a lot of think tanks out there um where they're essentially being bankrolled by like one billionaire or a foreign government, we uh that is not the case for us. We have a lot of donors, a lot of different donors. And rather than, you know, the this kind of like snobby person that's using us to sort of push policy that's beneficial to them that we're sort of serving, we just have these smart, interested people that are just as passionate about all these ideas as we are and um are, you know, allowing us to do what we do. And it's nice to have an event where we can be face to face with them and uh hopefully, you know, give them a a good time in a in a beautiful spot. >> How about you Josh? What was your takeaway from Del Rey? Yeah, it was a great time. Uh nice to meet a lot of the donors and see people from work, you know, working remotely. Don't always get to see uh co-workers every day, but uh just get together and I I had never been to the supporters summit before. So, it was a great time. Um I found the the lectures to be great each one that uh that came up which each one was, you know, uniquely sponsored by one of the supporters or the donors. I was like wanting to research into it, read about it, think more about it, and then each next one came up, I was like, well, now I want to move on to this and talk about. So, it was uh great um great content, but it was nice to meet uh meet some of the people, talk to them, and uh as Connor said, really just the uh is a unique thing because I I found it kind of hard to as I've worked at the Mises Institute for a little over a year to describe sometimes what it is I do. Like I sometimes use the term, you know, think tank, but I'm like, well, not quite. But, uh, really it's it's a research institute. It's a research center that's dedicated to Austrian economics and libertarian political economy and these things. And so, it doesn't, as Connor said, fall into just being funded by, well, the donors set the agenda for what the institute is. they they're just genuinely supporting um Austrian economics, uh sound money, peace, and um and getting the state out of uh people's people's lives. And so it's u it's fun to talk to those people and you know they have a um they come from all different types of of backgrounds and uh and everyone was just really nice, really welcoming. they they wanted to talk to you, talk about what you did there and uh you know it's it's their support really that I'm thankful for. It just makes my job possible to be living the dream working at the Mises Institute. So um so it was a lot of fun. It was a lot of fun. The my only uh complaint was my wife wasn't able to come on this trip. So it was you know but uh I was like this would have been a nice one to to bring her too. So maybe next year. Well, my one complaint um is I don't think uh Murray would have been a big fan of Del Rey because all the bars closed at like 11 o'clock. Like the latest opening bar was like was like the hotel bar, which I did put good use to but like that closed at midnight and so I was like, you know, if if Rothbart was here, like where you got to get his, you know, 3:00 a.m. martini somewhere. >> Um you couldn't even find like a good diner. Um so I don't think Rothbart would approve of of Del Rey, but it was a beautiful city, walkable city. Uh we even got out in the inter coastal waterway for a little bit which is uh which is great. Um and one of the things I like about the supporter summit is um and I go some of the content um that we had there which will be coming up on uh our various media channels so you too can see if you were not privileged enough to be there. Um but the the great thing about the supporter summit is that we have some of our big names right you know you get your Gita Hollesman coming in from an which you know is is not always the easiest thing to do. you know, you get your uh I always loved Alex Pollock. I'm going to brag about him here in a second as well, but uh you know, you get our our who's who list and they have a lot of flexibility in what they talk about. Um like this, you know, theme for this one was economic liberty. You can go a lot of different directions for it. People went a lot of different directions for that. Um but it's it's different than aisu lecture, right? You where you're you know there's there's certain sort of checks in a curriculum you're trying to check. Um different than some of our you know our research conferences. You're presenting papers. because you got a few keynote events but most of you know but you you you know the presenting like a new research thing can often often be very almost narrow in what you're presenting there though also a great time um obviously when we had uh you know like our human action conference or war revisionism conference there's a very prescribed sort of topic there that everyone's working in but it's always kind of interesting to see you know how um our our biggest names our our shining lights um kind of the the angles that they take um with the you know what it kind of within a broader team on what they think is important in today's day and age. Um really enjoyed uh Patrick Newman had a great talk about uh strategy for like Rothbartian strategy, you know, how do we actually uh you know create more economic liberty um that that we're talking about there. Uh my favorite talk I alluded to a little bit earlier was Alex Pollock on Hayek and money. Um and uh the point he made at the end which was an obvious point like you I don't want to pretend that you know some profound um insight and and I don't think uh Alex took it as such either but um you know his big focus was on um gold crypto um you know the the breaking away from government monopolies on currencies and the like the way that's reflected in prices currently today. Uh if you're a gold holder you're doing quite quite well. Um and uh but the extent to which the increased demand for gold amongst international banks, how like the banks themselves, how they're operating is demonstrating, you know, gold as that sort of international money by by their own behaviors there. Um which again I think it's it's it's an obvious insight, but I think it's a great one. Obviously very important one, one that you're not going to get at many other events outside of the Austrian orbit. Um but Alex, he he just he he he presents as what like an economist should be. like he's just he's he's you know he's he's got you great great insight. He's always very uh you know speaks with a certain sort of uh gentlemanly you know he's a fun gentlemanly sort of persona there. So always a big fan of Alex Pollock. Uh Connor I know you were working the camera and uh making sure that our content was getting to our viewers uh later. So I know you did not get to really dive into a lot of the content there. But Josh um who are some of the highlights for you out of our starstudded uh schedule? >> Yeah, I agree. Um the Dr. Pollock was one of the earlier talks and he was actually newer to me like I didn't know uh until I um saw him in the Mises Fed documentary and then uh last year supporters summit watching it online. Um, so his his talk about just money and currency competition and really just the simple insight at the end of not having to say it has to be gold, not having it say it has to be cryptocurrency or Bitcoin or silver or anything, but just saying allow market competition and people would abandon the state system of money uh that's monopolized right now and allow currency competition and let the market choose uh what to use as money. So that was very good and and Dr. Pollock's very uh very nice, very personable. Uh I emailed him last year for a few quotes that he had given in his talk last year and uh between he and I, he was able to email me say okay I gathered it from this book. I was able to find the footnote somewhere online and so that was kind of fun to have some of that back and forth. So that one was good. But I was just kind of even look reviewing the list. Um Dr. written hour talked about freedom as a tonic for social conflict. So, you know, rather than uh right now there's a lot of even if the word isn't used, this this focus on uh kind of this class consciousness Marxist idea that that all the differences between people are something that is necessarily political and what divides them. Um and he talks about no that it's actually freedom and interaction peacefully that uh that lessens uh conflict. Um there are a few others. I always enjoy uh Dr. ters on uh land management or even things that people think are kind of innocuous or kind of outside of the uh well we know that markets work for these things but really you know we can't have um national parks and public land be uh handled by the free market and so why I I was encouraged by that is um it's what differentiates the Mises Institute and Austrian economics and um at least this type of Rothbartian libertarianism is not um we're we're okay with the free market up to this degree and then maybe the conservative Republicans go a little further. They're okay with with it up to this degree, but then there's all this other stuff that's um that that wouldn't work for. uh and so they come along with uh examples and economic theory and history and current events to say no the free market absolutely does work in these cases and here's why and here's how state interventions uh worsen the situation. So I always u like that kind type of talk because it um I don't want to say makes it okay to be a libertarian but just encourages you that you're not crazy outside you know just thinking some radical thing that's so um uh so ridiculous but actually something that uh that no the free market works in these cases as well. And there's one example he brought up uh where there was a fire on the west coast where like you could see like two, you know, there's there was a government land management and government park on one side and the other one was a large park that was managed by a a non-government entity and like how you can just tell like afterwards like from you looking down at the devastation afterwards like you can very clearly identify which kind of like the equivalent of like the uh like internet access in Korea map like you can see exactly where that political border sort of pops in. I I do think some of those examples in particular were so vivid like that were very helpful to make some of those points. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Yeah, I was paying a little bit of attention to the talks. So I, you know, I have to kind of bring myself out of it to make sure everything that people can hear and important things like that. Um, one one that I enjoyed a lot was uh Jonathan Newman's. He gave one called How How We End the Fed, I think, or how to end the Fed essentially. And I just I like that because so often I think we're framed as sort of these naive pie in the sky thinkers that want these like impossible goals and like yeah okay maybe people will concede that if we didn't have a Fed that's great that would be great but like how do we actually get there? And so he gave in just like 20 minutes uh a talk just walking through like no what are some action steps that we could actually take if rough bardians took you know control um what would they actually do and like that that's helpful for us to be able to talk through uh with people. So that was a good one. And then I also liked uh Dr. And Joya's talk on uh civil rights and kind of looking back at some some early southern literature that was in fact uh uh sounded a whole lot like what um MLK basically you the same language that he used in his famous I have a dream speech was found in some what was it like the Charleston Observer or something basically doing what she always does and just kind of shattering the the mythology around a lot of those topics that are just they're built up that are very um helpful to the to the progressive cause and so I'm just always a big fan of her lectures too. >> Yes, always a highlight. Always do kn do very well on on YouTube afterwards uh as as well. Um yeah, Jonathan's lecture was great. Um I also like that he kind of threw in um some kind of reforms in the end. Again, hate to be just a public fanboy, but uh he was up in DC a couple weeks ago at the House Financial Services Committee talking about Fed reform, and so we kind of added some of uh some of his suggestions there. Um, which I thought was a nice little nice little addition to um, of course, you know, it's interesting that the people that are are there um, we we had a a a gentleman that works in u financial services that uh, came here from Australia and it was his first time's event. he lived uh right down the road there um from uh uh from Del Rey and he talked about like how like you know you one of the many many CO refugees that we've had come through our orbit um but uh you know how like the first year in Australia like it was actually okay like they they didn't have a lot of travel outside the island and so like it was like oh you can go see go to places that usually tourists just sort of uh creep demand down and then then how quickly that went away as soon as uh as soon as you started having outbreaks there um and how how glad he was to be in Florida for the rest of that time, which I can certainly uh appreciate there. But like the the amount of people within like the financial services committee, not committee, but like the financial services industry um you know, a lot of a lot of fun conversations about the Middle Ages um was uh I know Ryan McM um if he was here, he would be talking a lot about the the rise of the tax state. Um, another another fun topic, but uh it was always always fun to see how many people want to talk about the Middle Ages >> in an event like this. You normally don't get a lot of that uh that sort of discussion anywhere else from my experience. Any other standout experiences from uh from talking with folks? Well, I did enjoy the um the brief panel between Ryan uh Bill Anderson and uh Peter Klene on kind of the 30th anniversary of uh mises.org since that's you know kind of what I work doing is helping edit uh the pieces on there. Um but it was just nice to hear from from kind of all of them with uh you know Dr. Klein had kind of started the original format of the the website and then you know gathering articles and pieces on there which really I guess wasn't done in that same way and then um Ryan also had just some good insights of u just you know what the site is for and what it's about and he kind of took the time to contrast you know um so much is being done with AI and you know there's potential for AI and lots of things but that uh that our content is free, that it's on uh it's on message, and it's not um and it's human written. I mean, it's not, you know, we're not going to have a bunch of just AI sites writing and, you know, and I actually have uh bots online now that people are commenting back and forth with who are AI and now at a certain point it'll be bots commenting against bots. But anyway, and then hearing from Bill, um, he's he's, you know, been kind of in and out, uh, with Mises. So, he's he he said that he only worked there since 2022 or 23, something like that. But, but, you know, he's been, um, active with Mises.org a lot longer than that. And, uh, so, um, so anyway, it was nice to hear his uh, his experience. And so, he said, you know, that that was um, you know, very influential for him. um uh also just in in kind of building his writing and building his career. He was a journalism major and uh and an economics professor and was getting his his PhD which he eventually did at Auburn. But uh the mises.org and the writing regularly and and getting uh paid he was um was key like supplemental income but also uh was just instrumental in his his career. So, um, so anyway, now he's, you know, the I don't know if I want to use, it's an appropriate term, a gatekeeper of what goes on to Mises and, uh, cares about, you know, what we, you know, what fits with the page. And so, um, so anyway, it was kind of fun just to hear through from them some stuff I kind of knew about the history of the um, of the page. Um, and then just thinking back to, you know, my job and potentially your guys' jobs, depending on all that you do, uh, may not have been possible 30 years ago, you know, just all that has, you know, has changed now. 30 years ago, I was was two, but, you know, still like >> Yeah. We would have been sending out episodes of Power and Market via cassette tape back in those days, >> right? Yeah. Or we'd be have a radio show, I guess. But yeah, it's so really things have uh have changed to facilitate, you know, and make possible um new jobs and there you know there's something there a lesson there about the the vision of labor and the you know how markets uh grow and and develop and uh and we didn't and not everybody became unemployed when there were new technologies and new jobs and you know we didn't all uh you know we didn't need a universal basic income and you know >> yeah I I also enjoyed especially that part of the uh uh Peter's part of the uh panel when he he showed pictures of like the early misuses.org and told the story of how the site actually started which I had never heard before. So I enjoyed that a lot. I also enjoyed the the keynote um address from James Board as well. Was it was a good time >> and I I think it was was it uh during the introduction when Sandy Klein like introduced him by reading out all of the government officials who have denounced him and it's like the postmaster general and like all these random things and people were applauding that. That was a good way to start a speech and it was a good time. >> Yeah. Bart's always a good time. I I'm upset I did not have a cigar with him as I did last time he had he'd come to Auburn, but uh always the next time. Always next time. Um yeah, but the the uh the mis.org thing I think is really interesting because like you know being in this orbit like often like one of the big surprising things like oh well you actually have more than just a website like that's just how big influential misa.org you know, has been with the brand understandably so with like, you know, just, you know, all the books and things like that, but it's it's that's often like, oh man, like particularly when they come to Auburn, it's like, oh man, like this is such an incredible building, such an incredible campus. Like I thought you guys were just a website, but like no, we were much much more. >> Well, and how did you how did you guys uh first discover me.org actually? >> Oh, sorry. That's what Yeah. What I actually was thinking of as you were saying that um you you know through Ron Paul in 2012 some guys at college had told me about Ron Paul and I was like okay so he's not Democrat not a leftist but not a traditional Republican. Okay. I kind of like what he's saying. And then I had gone through college hadn't heard more about him really since 2012. And you know was was being challenged at college as a political science major. um and you know kind of conservative um and uh which was good for me but then I kind of found you know a lot of the conservative movement when I try to read their books and things um now there's more to it than I than I probably realize there's Russell Kirks and things like that but I was like the kind of contemporary conservatives if I try to read their books they don't have a lot of research they don't have a lot of footnotes and then the left has a lot of the you know academ so I kind of tried looking up on YouTube. Well, let's see if there's any like adjacent, you know, Ron Paul type of type of people. And um I found I think Tom Woods, the Tom Wood Show. And then I found mises.org. And at that time I was trying to just gather um resources on economics, politics, philosophy, you know, just different things knowing, you know, I wanted to be a teacher. And I realized that uh mises.org or had all these books that were rigorous, that had footnotes, that had details. Um, and they were free. And I was like, "Oh my gosh, who knows how long this is going to be there." You know, I didn't know it was it had been there that long. And so I started downloading and actually saving uh all the books. So that was back in 2015 or so. Um, and then, you know, given circumstances a decade later, I'm actually working at the Mises Institute. So it's uh you know kind of cool to see you know what what takes place after um 10 years of of time. But yeah so it if it wasn't for mises.org and the resources there um I wouldn't have and the videos that are that are put out by Mises as well lectures and different things I wouldn't have uh discovered Mises and then obviously wouldn't have been working for Mises as well. >> It's a similar story. >> Yeah >> a similar story for me. I was a geology major in college. Um, so all my reading about economics was on the side and I got very obsessed with it my freshman year, which was I started in 2015, fall of 2015. I decided I had to, you know, figure out what my political views were before the 2016 election because it was the first time I was going to be voting. So I started really diving into it and I I pretty quickly got converted to the free market uh by converted by free market ideas. um got very interested in that and then as I sort of progressed through college I was looking for books on you know economics especially that I was economics first I kind of found the political stuff later and um you know being a college student I couldn't just buy every book I wanted to uh or that I encountered and as I was looking around for books like the Misesus was the one place that had the free PDF version of all these things and so of course like just I think because that was available, it walked me from just sort of a general free market perspective kind of down the Rothbartian rabbit hole, which is I mean that and of course, you know, now I've I've landed here. Um, but that's a a large reason that I have so much appreciation for the donors that we were um interacting with last week because I I think that's just so powerful. The fact that we put these books out for free um try to, you know, lower the the the costs for the people that might be kind of curious about these ideas. I think um that's certainly something that sets us apart and you know biased by my own experience I think it's an incredibly effective uh approach. I >> also think that it's a platform for people to you out there in the wilderness that are consuming these ideas to be able to publish stuff on because I remember um I I first came across m.org probably 2011ish. No, probably 2010, I think. Um, you know, which was kind of a, you know, interesting uh uh area, you know, post uh, you know, that was uh, you know, continuing of the of the Ron Paul revolution at the time, obviously after financial crisis and and all that sort of fun stuff. Very very big big time for for Ashon. And uh then for for a little bit like what was really interesting at the time uh I don't know uh it was probably a little bit before you Connor but Josh I don't know how much time you spent on uh kind of the econ blogs >> like uh >> not a ton. Oh, that's it's fascinating cuz like uh like like within this space, right? So much of the good work so much of the the real gems were uh were econ blogs. The methle at the time was was a big part of that. Um but it was like in the comments section and you could see like a lot more engagement of like a professor professor on professor violence. Um like particular like uh uh I think Betty and Horowitz had I think coordination pro problem was their blog and like you go back there now like you know these these articles are like 12 years old but like you just see like the back and forth of like you know who kind of had the sharpen knife to kind of go after others like some I've got stronger opinions on than others. I'm not going to I'm going to leave that out out uh out of this episode. But there's so much good material. Like I what we need is someone who is interested in the the contemporary history of uh of economic thought and otherwise just comb through the the comment section of the blogs back in the day. But for for a little bit um the reason why a lot of those blogs, you know, kind of faded off is because they were so dependent upon academics. Like it was a blog by like you know two or three academics and whatever. And really a lot of the big ones um like even even ones kind of outside of our orbit like uh bleeding heart libertarians was like a big libertarian blog back in the day and I think it's it's uh largely defunct or at least not what it used to be and and there's a variety of others kind of fit that that approach. There's actually a period of time where the institute uh kind of rebooted um the front page was uh circle Bostonat I think was it was kind of an academic focused blog and we end up reverting back to to the model that we now know and love today. But like mises the the you mises.org is, I think, one of the few econ blogs that were big in that era that are still, you know, pretty high traffic website today. And I think a big part of that is precisely because it's not simply within the gatekeep of scholars per se, though we love our scholars, particularly when they they publish on mis.org, but uh but like it's it's it's precisely the fact that it provides opportunities for others um you know, people with different skill sets. Like I I love getting a u a money and banking article from someone who is a trader, you know, is uh in with a D, not a T. Um but uh you know, who who are active, you know, got real skin in the game, who are moving markets, if you will. Always my my best insight out there. And you can't get that if you have a very narrow sort of academic gatekeeping device, >> right? It's about the ideas, not the the credentials. >> Yeah. >> Necessarily, which is also it also makes it a great place to to get your start if you're like a college student, too. We accept a lot of articles from them. It's just, you know, if it's good writing and, you know, the the arguments or sounds, then then it seems that we run. I don't I'm not in the editorial side of it, but that seems to be kind of the the the vision of the site. I joke with Bill a little bit that I you know uh before when I sent my first pieces and I sent them into Ryan um McMakin and Daniel Labassi. So I I didn't know Bill and then I hadn't done one in a while. So I would send him when I get this article from this guy Bill and I didn't know Bill and so I was kind of like I don't know who this is. It's kind of funny we work together now. Um but sometimes I would get you know on a tear. I'd write you know be writing one. I'm like okay that was a good one. I have momentum. Let me write another one. I'd write two a week and Bill would have to give me the okay, let's pump the brakes. And so I joke that like, well, to in order to get to publish, you know, as much as I wanted, I had to had to get hired and work at at the Mises Institute, you know, to get Bill to to accept all of them. But uh so anyway, I don't do two a week know that now. That would be that' probably be too much for >> Yeah, they've contain you to one a week. >> Yeah, one a week. But um but yeah, no, it is great to be able to um take in and kind of people we we keep track of on our our spreadsheet when we take in articles of people who do they have a profile yet, meaning they've written for us before and they're known to us or are they they new to us? So it's always nice to see somebody from like Misesu or you know some other conference or something that or you know maybe it's just an unknown person to us that will send us something and um and then uh kind of see the even the growth process of okay this is their first article and uh you know whatever level that they're they're at it has to be you know obviously um uh accepted by uh by us for for going on the site But um but then also kind of see them get into a groove and and uh over time even turn in some u some regular stuff and then there are people who've become um kind of some of our regulars our regular writers that we kind of expect to see something from a couple times a month. So um so yeah it's kind of interesting to see that that process of uh and it gives people you know just practice um practice writing uh not for a grade not for something that's trying to you're you are trying to um get it accepted but you're not trying to uh achieve a grade you're actually trying to think and and articulate thoughts which I think is going to be even more important given the rise of uh of AI and other things of, you know, no, it's actually, you know, our writers should actually be proud that they're they're the ones putting together um their thoughts and um and explaining and thinking through things. So, um so anyway, but yeah, that's that's kind of a fun process to see. Well, any anything uh I know we were we were announcing our big uh event lineup next year. We got a lot of things going on. But before we get to the end of the year, Connor, you're you're going to be up in uh Grand Rapids uh starting next month. November 1st. >> Yeah, November 1st. Yeah. We're we're putting on an event basically about how the um the economy, the current economic system is just screwing over Gen Z and it should be fun. It's a little different than what we've done before. We do a lot of these circles, these events where we kind of go on the road and, you know, bring a few scholars to give some talks and it's open to the general public, but this is specifically for students at Cornerstone and and surrounding universities. Um, so kind of blending that uh that like public kind of on the road event with our student programs. That's sort of the vision of this. And this is uh our first trial run and yeah I'll be uh speaking there um and working on my talk now. I'm I'm talking essentially about um the title of my talk is something to the effect of rejecting the siren call of right-wing progressivism is what I'm calling it. And I think I think there's a lot of you could kind of there's sort of the the right-wingers or they brand themselves as right-wingers who are really pushing for uh more government intervention and on on various fronts. And I really viewed that as at the end of the day they completely accept the progressive narrative of economic history, what I call the New York Times view of economic history. And so I think that um it it really at the end of the day is a historical narrative battle on that front. And I just I I think I I see some of those ideas getting popular with um young people understandably. I I think that a lot of it is a branding thing. The the status quo has been branded as free market capitalism, free trade, various stuff. And that's not true. So um that's a little bit what I'm I'm going to be trying to speak to in my talk. But yeah, very excited. >> Excellent. Excellent. Josh, are you going to be at the Ash economics research conference next year? >> Yes. Yeah, I'm planning uh to be there. Uh, you know, all things being equal, I need to get >> presenting anything. Got any papers in the works? >> Uh, some papers. I have one in um that I've written some articles that are adjacent to is kind of, you know, help it's helping me research a little bit. um really about disproving uh charterism in colonial America and it's you know it's really easy I mean so the moned monetary theory MMT has this idea that um that government chose money and by its declaration money became money and that's where um where it came from and they say all these you know things about well you know all these people make up this fantasized story about barter leading to a medium of exchange that becomes money. And um so they they say that, but then they usually look back to examples in, you know, uh 4,000 years ago in ancient Mesopotamia to try to use vague things um to try to prove that uh that money was was a product of the state, not of the free market. Um which is then convenient because then the money can, you know, be shaped to be whatever the state says it is. Um, the problem with that is MMT's favorite example of where they think modern monetary theory would work is is um the United States. And uh so I have kind of a simple task. It's almost I I guess not fair, but I do think it's worth looking into of saying, well, the United States isn't that old and we are a, you know, we're a literate uh culture with, you know, with writing used to be at least >> and at least we Yeah, we're, you know, that's declining, but but um we have documentation of uh goods being exchanged on a barter economy and then becoming generally accepted media of exchange and then becoming uh becoming money. And so you have things like shells, nails, tobacco, gold, and silver. Um and even I've just found in a um just a encyclopedia about colonial monetary history um which probably doesn't get read by that many people, but you know, I I'm into it right now of even just our English word currency in America. I found a book that says currency we come to think of it as as the money that we use but currency meant whatever was current used and accepted in trade. So it didn't actually mean money. The the very word currency which came to be synonymous with money actually meant whatever goods were acceptable in trade. And so just just the existence of things like that give you know give evidence that money emerged on the free market. So, so anyway, I'm trying to uh I I'll be over the next few months trying to put together um put together the the paper uh on that and uh and if we have the libertarian scholars conference, Connor and I floated the idea of uh maybe co-authoring a paper if we can work it out depending on our timing of uh called um it's more the concept of the government monopolizes something and then does nothing and lets uh lets chaos come in. So some people call that a narco tyranny, but that kind of gives a bad name to uh anarco. Um, and so the my working title that I called it was uh uh interventionist non-interventionism, meaning the government takes over something and then lets uh lets chaos reign and then either blames the free market to regulate more um and or or just lets um lets the situation uh continue to devolve. Uh so you get all the worst aspects of government uh tyranny, but then you also get um the it doesn't even manage the the services that were taxed uh to um for it to provide to us. >> Well, we brought up an example earlier with the the forest management. >> Yeah, I was going to >> there. The fact that the private lands like they don't want I mean a lot of times they they do want controlled burns. So it's not that they don't want fire, but they don't want these out of control infernos. And so they actually manage the land, but then government doesn't. And so then they are turned into these tinder boxes and then they, you know, explode into these huge wildfires that take out entire towns. And it's like that I I guess from our perspective, like that feels like the government kind of doing something even though they're not really doing something. And we're most interested in trying to work that into Rothbard's uh his three types of interventions. Where does it fit in there? It's a little bit different. Is it a combination or is it kind of its own thing? That's kind of what we're going to try to figure out. >> And similar government policy led to cities being caught on fire. So, a lot of fire involved dealing with failed government services, >> right? >> Yeah. Well, we talked about it with like the DC stuff essentially taking over the police departments and then just letting crime happen, >> right? It's the same thing. >> Yeah. Lots of examples of uh it's it's actually kind of, you know, be fun to get more more thinking on that because the once you kind of have that category, you're like, "Oh, yeah. They do do that with a lot of stuff." Even you could even think of just potholes on on the roads where it's like, well, they tax you, you pay for the roads, and then they don't maintain it. You know, that's that not quite the same, but it's it's all over the place. So, it's one of those things I feel like when you can once you see it, it's hard to unsee it. >> Excellent. Anything else on the media, Connor, that you got got cooking after your >> um I'm not sure about uh about uh paper. So I I presented a a paper that I have not finished um last year uh about making a specific argument that I hadn't really seen anybody else lay out that um when we talk about how terrible the media is that it really only is damaging to people because of the political system. And so I I laid that out. I gave a a talk that um that used a lot of that uh that argument during Misesu. So that's up on YouTube if anybody's interested. But um nothing specific in the works there in terms of another presentation. But who knows? >> And if you're a regular Mises Institute podcast listener and you want to uh you know you you you have the ambition to write an academic paper even if you're not in academia great place to present such work and ideas or at our two research conferences LSC and AERC. And then uh we also announced the Rothbart University which is going to be happening in uh uh May I believe in beautiful Auburn. If you've always wanted to do Mises University but you're no longer a student also take a look at that. So before we get out of here guys uh you guys you guys reading anything interesting Austrian non-Austrian >> you know something non >> Oh go ahead. >> Okay. Sorry. Uh something non-Austrian I'm reading right now is uh I'm actually listening to it um is a book about the Soviet space program called The Wrong Stuff. And it's just it's crazy like the I didn't know too much about the history there, but um it was just a complete and total mess. The the book is written in a way where it is quite funny. Um it's a good writer, John Strauss Burr or something like that. Um it should be easy to find if you type in the wrong stuff. I just don't remember his name. But it's also kind I I think from my perspective, somebody that's studied um the history of the right in a lot of ways, it's just interesting how um the the Soviet space program was a complete mess basically the entire time. It was all political. The their entire motivation was this propaganda war with the Americans. They were completely hiding all the failed tests and like even like the launch of Sputnik was I it was just a complete mess. So their their successes were also like basically miraculous miraculous successes. And um it's just interesting reading that and realizing that essentially all the the cold warriors um on our side on the American side were working with the propagandists on the uh Soviet side to act like they were this huge threat when they they did not have like the rocket uh technology to get to the United States. That's why they had to send rockets to Cuba because it was the only chance they had. Um and you know little things like they didn't use um uh titanium so their their rockets were incredibly heavy and like it just they talk about like the calculation problem like it was a total mess. So it it's an entertaining uh listen especially the audio book is quite good but uh that's what I've been listening to on my commutes. I hope you're going to tell us that Sputnik never happened. Become a Sputnik truther. >> That was also filmed on >> an interesting fact there. People talk about how uh you you could go out and watch Sputnik going overhead, but the thing was like the size of like a basketball or something. So, nobody saw Sputnik, but what the Russians did is they um painted like a chrome they used a chrome paint on the second stage rocket. Uh, so that's what people were actually seeing there because they they wanted the Americans to be able to go outside and actually see what was uh going overhead. And of course they had Sputnik beeping so that people could pick it up on the radio. That's essentially all it could do was beep. And they had to paint the rocket so people could see something because they could only get this tiny little like basketballized thing up there. >> How How about you Josh? In between colonial monetary history, what other page turners you got going on? Yeah. Well, actually, I'm uh revisiting a book that I've read quite some time ago, but um needed a little more attention. I actually had it here was the the myth of the Robert Barons by Burton Folsam. And uh if he's not an Austrian, he's he's very close. He's been mentioned um several times. Uh Tom Woods has done presentations on him. Patrick Newman um Tom Dorenzo uh mentioned probably is where I heard of this book from in How Capitalism Saved America. Um, but it's a very good uh history of the uh so-called robber barons and it's really more of a uh setting the record straight and a celebratory history of um true entrepreneurs and and Folsam makes a a distinction between market entrepreneurs who um actually used economic calculations, sought profit and uh became productive and efficient to serve uh the consumers really well and were rewarded because of it. And market entrepreneurs who uh used uh lobbying through through the government to gain uh subsidies to gain regulations to gain other things in order to um enrich themselves at the expense of the public rather than um serving them. So, I I'm planning on um we'll see, you know, how this pans out, but maybe doing a couple of articles. Um I I looked on mises.org and I said, "Well, surely someone has done an article on uh James J. Hill who created he was the only transcontinental bank uh uh railroad to never go bankrupt and not take a penny of government money." And all the subsidized railroads um took government money. They were paid by uh paid by the mile. So that you can imagine the incentives that being paid by the mile of track you creates. And uh they were all inefficient and bankrupt even with um with the government help. Uh and also bringing in the the army to go to war with the Indians which is where a lot of the western um violence between the settlers and the Indians uh comes from is actually the army. And um Hill didn't do any of that. He had a successful railroad, built a little bit more slowly and um never uh never went bankrupt, was cheaper, was more efficient, negotiated with with tribes uh peacefully, Indian tribes and uh so anyway, I was it's it's important because as Connor mentioned kind of the the issues of media and branding is um the progressive era has basically framed the debate and discussion for over a century. So that even when you have people who are friendly to the free market, they still work within a progressive paradigm where they say, "Well, let's, you know, there's the free market and then there's socialism. Let's meet somewhere in the middle, which as Mises says, the middle of the road meets leads to socialism." Because, you know, there were the robber barons. there were these people that uh were monopolizing um through the free market and and these things which just is not um is not true. So I think it's important uh to continue to uh set the record straight even if it even if we're preaching to the choir. choir is often the ones that that need to hear it that no, it's you can be um unashamed of uh of the free market and um enter that kind of discussion with confidence to say no, I'm I'm not embarrassed to say I don't want 70% free market. I want 100% free market. And uh and you should too. >> Yeah. Our crusade will not end until we remove Upton Sinclair's The Jungle from every uh middle school reading list. >> And that's what I wrote last week a little bit was that uh it's that it's fiction. It even influences us. Um nobody I don't you know people say that they've read uh the jungle. I've never read it but uh people will say that they you know but it in it for good or bad it has influenced their thinking even though it's totally fictional. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I've been reading uh Martin Van Beurren, the first politician by James Bradley. Very thorough. It was It's interesting that uh not many Van Beern biographies out there of any substance. So, this was this came out like last year. So, it's uh hot off the presses, but it's been pretty good. >> That reminds me too, I'm about halfway I think through um Burr by Gel, which you you recommended though, and it's wonderful. I was not really expecting it. I And Gorvidel doesn't >> lying to you. I wasn't expecting before you recommended it to be fair. Um it's ve a very Rothbartian view of of that time period and there because you know it's not that >> I guess I was a little worried B Gorvidel is framed as you know this far-left uh kind of lunatics. I was I was sort of expecting kind of a Howard Zin like let's just tear down the founding fathers because that's what we're going to do and like not a lot of new slavery like >> right stuff like that. But no, it's like like actually like very smart revisionism that I think is very based in reality and is is very Rothbartian and it's just it's a fun book and a fun way to sort of explore that time period through fiction. >> Yeah. Know big big fan of Vidal's work. Uh I think um what was his name? Um uh uh almost had it but we had a we have a great article uh very very extensive article uh on like the revisionism of Gorvida doll um on mises.org if anyone is Jeff Rickenbach the voice of uh many a Mises >> Mises audio book um but he he has a very interesting article on uh Burr and his particular brand of revisionism then the other book >> Gvidel you mean? Yeah. Yeah. On Gorall. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. His his brain of revisionism. Um which was good. The other one which is a little bit different is uh the why is everything which is about uh the Kyle Shanahan football coaching tree. Well Mike the Mike Shanahan coaching tree. So if you're interested in entrepreneurship applied to sports Mike Silver very good narrator there on that. So for our football fans which I know you know not always a direct overlap based off of how some of my football related me.org articles have performed but uh and there's a few out there. There's a few. But uh and with that being said, again, a little bit different power and market this week as we uh we get back to the the swing of things. >> We'll read up on the news for next week. We've been kind of off the grid >> a little bit. So next week, uh I expect Ryan will be be back with us. Um so no Josh next week probably. We'll see. Oh, it's a surprise. You never know what you're going to do when you click on power and market. So uh >> uh for Joshua Mahorder, for Connor, this has been Bishop. Thank you for listening. Proceed ever more boldly. Okay, that's a little