Market Insights: Stocks are experiencing a rally, driven by strong earnings from big tech, despite ongoing concerns about inflation and a looming Fed meeting. Treasury yields have spiked due to rising oil prices rekindling inflation fears.
Economic Outlook: Investors are closely watching upcoming data releases, including jobless claims and consumer price index figures, which will provide critical insights into inflation and economic conditions ahead of the Fed's policy meeting.
Company Discussions: Tesla's earnings call was notable for Elon Musk's plea for approval of a $1 trillion pay package, despite disappointing profit results. The company's future value is heavily tied to Musk's leadership and ambitious projects like autonomous vehicles and humanoid robots.
Sector Performance: The airline industry, represented by American Airlines, showed strong earnings, driven by a rebound in business and leisure travel, with the company forecasting a return to profitability.
Investment Themes: The podcast highlighted the challenges in the current investment environment, characterized by peak uncertainty, high valuations, and low risk premiums, making it difficult for investors to decide between equities, fixed income, and commodities.
Government and Policy Impact: The ongoing U.S. government shutdown, now in its 23rd day, is affecting various sectors, including transportation, with significant implications for federal employees and potential economic disruptions.
Emerging Technologies: Discussions included the impact of emerging technologies like AI and quantum computing on healthcare, emphasizing the potential for these technologies to revolutionize diagnostics and treatment.
Key Takeaways: The podcast underscored the complexity of the current market environment, with investors needing to navigate economic uncertainties, policy impacts, and technological advancements to make informed investment decisions.
Transcript
This is Bloomberg Businessweek Daily, reporting from the magazine that helps global leaders stay ahead with insight on the people, companies and trends shaping today's complex economy. Plus, global business, finance and tech news as it happens, Bloomberg Business Week Daily with Carol Massar and Tim Stanek back live on Bloomberg Radio, Television, YouTube and Bloomberg Originals. And a very good afternoon, everybody. Yes, indeed. This is Thursday. What a week it's been. October 23rd, 2025 Carol Massar Tim Scientific live here at bloomberg headquarters. I got to say, putting the show together, it was a little bit tricky because there's a lot once again coming at investors. We have seen stocks though they have been higher. But what's interesting is treasury yields too, have spiked as oil prices have kind of rekindled some of those concerns when it comes to inflation. We've got an inflation print rate we expect tomorrow, Tim. And then you've got, what, a Fed meeting next week? We do. And we are expecting to get data about jobless claims at 4:00 today. Rate happens with a shot down. The state data, as Michael McKee just explained to me, is sent to the Labor Department. They release it in Excel format. Got to do some number crunching, but just a deep tease for the 4:00 hour. Michael McKee is going to be with us to break down that data and preview everything next week. Super important as we think about what's going to become our way potentially tomorrow as well. Having said that, in the next 60 minutes, we are going to hear from House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries on President Trump on U.S. priorities. And of course, that does include the US government shutdown. Am I correct? 23rd day? Yeah. Today's day 23. Yeah. So how many more days it goes also? Elon Musk's hijacking of Tesla's earnings call. If you caught that last night, even if you didn't stick around, Max is going to be joining us. Max chats to him a little bit later. If I was offered $1,000,000,000,000 in pay package, I'd be pleading to just get away. Would you be satisfied with the $450 million that you already have? Yeah, that's kind of deal to know. All right. We're also going to get into how emerging technologies, including AI and quantum computing, are changing the nature of making health care diagnoses. So we're going to get into that. It's a busy 60 minutes. It's a busy 3 hours. So stick around, everybody. First up, though, a check of the day's trade and top business stories. Here she is. Alexis Christopher is in for Charlie today. Alexis, Thanks, guys. A big rally here in big tech driving stocks higher in the run up to tomorrow's reading on consumer prices, which we know will get Fed officials a critical piece of information on inflation ahead of their policy meeting the following week. The Dow industrials now up 189 points. The S&P 500 back in record territory on a gain of about 46. And the Nasdaq composite racing ahead up to 31. Gold is advancing, paring some of the week's steep declines, up now about 1% at 4138 the ounce and oil, of course, the big story this week, climbing WTI up five and a quarter percent at 6158. The barrel that jump in oil stoking fears of higher inflation and that is pushing yields higher. So we have the yield on the ten year at 3.99%, two year yield at 3.47%. By the way, Binance coin, that's on our radar today. It is jumping right now 5.6%. After exchange co-founder Changpeng Zhao received a pardon from President Trump. Taking a look at stocks making news, toymaker Hasbro raised its full year outlook and said sales are ramping up ahead of the holidays after continued strength. And it's Magic, the Gathering franchise. And it's Wizards of the Coast. A business helped to boost third quarter profit and revenue. Hasbro up three and three quarters percent. And we are of course keeping an eye on Ford and Intel, both out with earnings after the closing bell. Ford down just about half a percent. Intel, though, up one and a half percent for on demand news 24 hours a day. Subscribe to Bloomberg News now wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Alexis Christoff for us. That's your Bloomberg business. Flash back to Carol and Tim. All right, Alexis, thank you so much. Jim Farley Ford, of course, the CEO. He's going to be joining us in the 4:00 420 ten end for 24, 24, 20. That's when it's happening. It's now like Tesla's 420. All right. Thank you, Carol Massar. I know. I know. All right. Let's talk about some of the stories that are going on, certainly out of the nation's capital. Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy warned that flight disruptions would continue across the U.S. as the government shutdown drags into its fourth week. More than 13,000 air traffic controllers and 50,000 Transportation Security Administration agents are being forced to work during the shutdown without pay. Just one important part of the government, as you know, that is being impacted by this breakdown between Republicans and Democrats, a breakdown that we seem to see over and over and over again. Bloomberg News correspondent and host of the big tech podcast, David Gura, sat down for an interview with House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries to talk about the relationship between the U.S. and Russia, the upcoming New York City mayoral election, and first and foremost, the ongoing government shutdown. As Democrats, we continue to make clear to our Republican colleagues. That we will sit down with them any time, any place in order to reopen the government to negotiate a bipartisan agreement that actually makes life better for the American people in terms of spending and funding. But we also have to decisively address the Republican health care crisis. We've maintained that position from the very beginning before Republicans shut the government down. And during the entirety of the shutdown, because it is a real crisis that has been created at this moment, particularly as it relates to the urgent need to extend the Affordable Care Act tax credits. As you and I are speaking, the House speaker is doing a press conference just down the hall. What is the level of engagement? Do you pass one another? Are you speaking with one another? Are Democrats talking to Republicans right now? The conversations have been very limited, unfortunately, because Donald Trump has not given House Republican leaders or Senate Republican leaders permission to negotiate. Reinforcing the principle from our view that he made the decision to shut the government down. They want to continue to inflict pain on federal employees. They've done that from the very beginning of Donald Trump's presidency. In fact, more than 200,000 federal employees had been forced off the job prior to the government shutdown. And this is something that we've continued to see them build upon during the shutdown. Until Donald Trump gets serious about reopening the government. Unfortunately, we're going to remain in this situation. And every day Americans are being hurt. He's getting ready to take a trip to Asia. Is it appropriate for him to be doing that at this moment when the government is shutdown? I think that the president has a responsibility both domestically and throughout the world. However, what has been irresponsible is that throughout this shutdown, he's found more time to golf than he has to engage with Democrats on Capitol Hill. He's decided to try to steal $230 million in taxpayer funds from the Department of Injustice. Donald Trump and his administration have found $40 billion to bail out a right wing want to be dictator in Argentina and can't find a dime to extend the Affordable Care Act tax credits to keep health care affordable for tens of millions of Americans. And on top of all of that, they are demolishing the East wing of the White House in ways that have appropriately horrified the American people. I want to ask you about potential off ramps and Tammy Baldwin, the senator from Wisconsin. Democrats said Trump is the off ramp at this point. Do you agree with that assessment? And has there been any kind of outreach or dialogue between you and the White House? Leaders Schumer made clear earlier this week that we have reached out to the White House again to indicate that prior to Trump's departure for Asia, he should sit down with Democrats to find a path forward to reopen the government, to enter into a bipartisan spending agreement and to address the health care crisis that Marjorie Taylor GREENE acknowledges must be addressed, and that traditional conservatives who are in the toughest seats in the country have now publicly acknowledged this week needs to be addressed. Can I ask you a question of congressional mechanics? And that is, can the Democratic leader pick up the phone, call the White House, and reasonably expect the president's going to take that phone call? Are you able to do that? And if so, what's keeping you from having that day? Well, traditionally, that probably is the case. But in this White House, that's very much unclear. Donald Trump didn't have a meeting with House or Senate Democratic leadership until two days prior to the government shutting down. That, of course, was House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries with Bloomberg's David Gura. David joining us from the Bloomberg News bureau in the nation's capital. Hey, David. You know, what I picked up from there is, you know, we hear the president and Republicans talk about the shutdown and we hear Democrats separately talk about it. But again, nothing about leaders coming together to really work on the issues that separate them. And I kind of got that from the House minority leader as well. Separately is the key word there, Carol. As I said, these two parties are not speaking with with one another. And I should say at the Capitol building today, it was incredibly quiet. You do have congressional leadership. They are holding press conferences, meeting among themselves. But it is sleepy. Isn't the right word. Empty is perhaps a better word. And it was clear from that conversation that the person who needs to be at the table or at least giving the blessing to Republicans who are at the table is President Trump. And there is, I think, a level of resignation among Democratic leadership that without that, this is just going to continue. So we're poised for President Trump, as we talked about that interview, to take this trip for about a week to to Asia. Again, there's a recognition there that with him absent, this is unlikely to to advance or develop here over the coming days. Yes, I guess the big question on the Democrat and Republican side is what can be done with the president on this trip? What can be done out of the country? Is there a chance that these two sides can come together and the government shutdown, even if he's not around? Well, there is some hope for optimism, of course, but there are a number of kind of pressure points that are on the horizon. I think that's pretty notable. So tomorrow is the first one, October the 24th. That's when a lot of federal workers are not going to receive their paychecks for the first time in this shutdown. So the pain of the shutdown is going to be more acutely felt by more people. And I think what's kind of novel about this shutdown is you've had someone who heads the Office of Management and Budget, the White House really moving things around, playing what he calls budgetary twister to make sure that a number of government employees are paid, certain programs are continued. All of that starts to become more and more difficult here as as the days tick on. So tomorrow, a big pressure point. Another one is next week, November the first, when some SNAP benefits are scheduled to expire and of course, when open enrollment begins for for health care plans. That's the moment at which Democrats believe Americans are going to look at the prospects of their health care going up, becoming more and more expensive. And they're going to perhaps recognize the fact, as Democrats would say, that this is something that's real and important and that having the government shut down so that those subsidies going to be restored is worth doing. I will say I think that message is getting to Americans outside of the Beltway. I was in Arizona last week. The lead story on local news last weekend was about premiums going up for that that open for Obamacare. That is story it seems to be getting out there and people are actually talking about that. David, a lot in that interview. One thing you also touched on was what's coming here in New York in the next couple of weeks, early November, the mayoral election. And the way that Leader Jeffries has or has not yet communicated with is there on Monday, the favorite to win the election here in November. What did he say about that? They have spoken a couple of times and I was optimistic. I had my fingers crossed that he'd be willing to make an endorsement today. During that interview, he declined to do so, but he has said that he's going to speak with somebody again today and tomorrow as he prepares to do that. He talked about the obligation of doing that. I asked him did he watched the debate last night, the final mayoral debate, or did he watch the Knicks season opener? He admitted he watched the last few minutes of the basketball game and not the debate, but he kept up with it and kept up with what the conversation has been. And after he declined to make an endorsement, I really pushed him on. On why what the outstanding issues are. And what he emphasized to me during our conversation is, look, he really applauds Mr. Mondavi for his emphasis on affordability. He thinks that's a signal issue in New York City and one that it's a signal issue across this country for four Democrats who really applauded him for focusing so much on that. But he acknowledged the fact that President Trump is likely to go after New York after this mayoral election takes place. Does Mamdani have the capacity, the experience, to deal with the level of pressure that the federal government is going to bring to bear? So I personally a bit disappointed that we didn't get that endorsement doing my interview today, but it does seem like that's likely. I mean, I think what's what he said over and over again is he plans to weigh in on this race before early voting begins. As both of you know, early voting in New York City is scheduled to start on Saturday of this week. So time is nigh. And he's he's going to do it soon, I should say. He was about like 98% there. I think during the course of our conversation, he really applauded Madani for saying that he planned to keep just skittish as the New York Police Department commissioner, if he is if he is elected. He saw that as a positive step. All right. Last question, though, because this also came up and I feel like people have said to me, why aren't you guys talking about this? But it's all over social media, active, you know, activity. And David, that is what's happening at the White House, the actual physical demolishing of a piece of the White House, I know in the grand scheme of things maybe isn't as important as a lot of other things that are going on in this world. But it feels very symbolic, symbolic despite the actual physicality of what's happening and indicative of a president that can kind of do whatever he wants. What did Mr. Jeffries say on that? He expressed. Dismay over this happening is I think a lot of people in this city have as well. Of course, it's a very old building that has been remodeled in the past, but this is pretty dramatic. And in the past, it would have gone through a lot of reviews. That hasn't happened here. The president said initially he planned to build this ballroom that was going to have no effect on the existing building. Of course, that's not the case. We have seen images and video of the demolition of the East wing of the White House that are startling to a lot of people, as the minority leader said. And then there's just the notion of what's being built there, this massive structure, this 90,000 square foot ballroom, which the president says is essential for the leader of the United States to entertain foreign leaders who come through Washington, D.C., you know, organization of architectural historians pointing out that just proportionality is wrong here. They have a building of that scale. And the White House plan is is just huge. So a lot of people just expressing dismay and stupid vacation over what's happening here. And I should note as well, the price tag on this is has gotten larger over the course of this construction, too. It started out at $200 million. The president said it'd be paid for by himself and private donors. Now the price tag is $300 million. So a lot of people are kind of wondering how this is happening, how it's happening so quickly. And I think that you hitting on kind of the metaphorical side of this is important to care. A lot of people kind of looking at it as a way of the president here moving with some relative impunity. I got to say, I have an old house at 1800s, and I can't even change a window without like a commission weighing in. So there's got to be something when we're talking about the people's house. David, you're not the president, Carol, that's what I'm saying. I'm nothing and nothing. But you're not the price. I can't change a window without stuff coming down on me. And I'm just thinking about the historic significance of that building there on Pennsylvania Avenue. All right, David, thank you as always. Bloomberg News correspondent, host of the big tech podcast, David Gura, Government shutdown. You and I have gone back and forth that it's really not top of mind for investors. It's kind of startling, at least not yet. We know people are worried about the deficit, but it doesn't seem top of mind. Other things are, yeah, earnings, Fed policy, inflation concerns, the data that we do or do not get trying to make sense of this economy. Here with more on that and today's market environment, we've got Ali McCarty back with us. She's managing director of wealth management and private wealth advisor with the Lyman Partners at UBS. She's got just over $1,000,000,000 in assets under management. She's back here in our Bloomberg Businessweek studio. Is there a clear narrative to you about where exactly markets go next? No, there isn't. I know that I have an opinion. Many on the sell on the buy side have an opinion. But I think what's very interesting now is we're in this environment where we have peak uncertainty. Many would argue we have more uncertainty than we did even coming into this year. We have at peak multiples peak valuations and we have the lowest risk premium that we've seen in in hardly ever. Right. So you sit there with a market where you're looking at putting a dollar to work and you say, Do I do it on fixed income? I'm concerned a little bit about private credit. Yields are at their tight, it spreads are at their tightest. So you don't go there. You say, okay, do I go into equities? Oh, I don't know if I feel like going into equities right now. Okay. What about commodities? Well, I do think it's a great hedge. I do think the dollar's going down. But do I go into an asset that is supposed to be there for structural diversification and it's up 40, 50, 60% depending on whether you're looking at gold, palladium. So it is I'm finding it. And a client of mine actually use this wording. He said this is an environment about fear, either fear of investing or fear of missing out on the upside. And there's not a lot in the middle. She's at Palladium Tarot. She said Palladium. I just mentioned palladium in the 2 p.m. hour. Okay, Jack, listen, you and I were sitting in the makeup room getting ready to come on air, and you said something to me about some of your clients, these high net worth individuals. And just to show the range of thinking that's out there with people who have a lot at stake. Yeah. So again, these are people who have a lot at stake. In addition, there are people that either are entrepreneurs that are sort of in markets dealing with tech, dealing with health care every day and or, you know, some of the people that I talk about, our financial professionals, their private equity people, they run hedge funds. So they're really seeing what's happening. So, you know, to clients very similar balance sheet, you know, one is probably 80% in equities. She's so happy with that. She's had 20% returns for the last three years. And most of yesterday was focused on should we be borrowing to increase that amount. Wow, rates are going down. Equities, you still you know, you people have a 73 sorry, 7300 target on the S&P. So. Right. This is a no brainer. And fast forward to you know that was 2:00 3:00 was we'd like to sell everything and we'd like to figure out what we can. Another client is a person right now, another client, similar portfolio. Right. So, you know, when you talk about how emotion, you know, finish what they say, you're going to sell everything. So they want to sell everything. And they said, you know, something akin to what can we do to put capital at risk to profit in a true black. One scenario. I like shorting NBC in 2008 and I literally am having those two conversations and everything in between. And then my job is to use UBS, to use our resources, to use my personal network of people like that and sort of take a pulse and then take the institutional and technical part and get on top of it. But I do think, like we say all the time, this time's different or this time feels more challenging. But again, if you have a dollar and know fixed income doesn't make sense, equity feels too high and commodities or relative diversifier is don't feel right, what do you do? Really struck by the client who wanted to do more on margin. Yeah. Is that something that's. Is that a one off? Is that idiosyncratic for for you and your clients or you guys says, okay, it doesn't. That's not really wealth managers don't typically do stuff on like they're not trained. Well okay. So yes and no. So there's something called like structural strategic leverage. Right. If you could borrow at 3%, which you could for a long time, I still have people that have 1% on their books and you could invest at what you thought was a minimum of four just because of your portfolio. Maximum of 20. Right. You would do that all day, Meaning you're you're getting a are you talking about getting a line of credit for tax purposes against your securities? That's that's not what I heard from you, though. I heard from you going getting up, leveraging up and buying more equities, using margin. Is that is that what they're thinking? So it's not make it and that's okay. They do have a collateralized. But what it means is that ultimately that person is so bullish and that FOMO example that 80% equities is not enough. Right. There's no way we could get them to a perspective. And so that what's their other 20%, 80%, they're obviously looking to up that. What else are they? So it's what it is. And honestly, my fixed income allocation is pretty boring because of what we just described about fixed income. So it's short duration, treasuries, short to medium duration, AIG. And then if we have a retirement asset, a little bit of upper tier high yield, but it's not that much more complicated than that. I don't know your private credit. Yeah, so private credit, I'm going to leave sort of the whole conversation about what's been happening aside, because I'm sure you've had a million conversations about is it systemic, is it specific? Feel free to weave it in, though, because we think it's an important one that we aren't quite dropping. I think it's an important one. I have always been a believer in and Lehman as part of my life is is where this comes from. That part of risk management means transparency. Being nimble and knowing what you own. Because when things go against you, they go against you quickly and you can't have it if you are locked up or you don't exactly know who you're lending to. So for me, private credit served a purpose when there were no rates or diversification to be gotten in the general fixed income market. Yeah, but when that ceased to be, i.e. when rates went up significantly during the pandemic, there was a much higher hurdle for private credit for me. Now, I think that when people talk about it being late in the credit cycle, that's sort of a cheeky way of saying rates are going to go one way, Spreads are tight and there's some behavior, some underwriting that may be a little bit of bullying or excessive. Right. Do I think that that has happened and that there's also fraud? There's always fraud. There's always a balance. Do I think it's relative to the standards or the lack of standards during the financial crisis and mortgage crisis? No, but there's been a lot of money put to work. And, you know, I don't know everybody's underwriting standards and I don't know everybody's liquidity profile. But so I would say I'm not in a cockroach camp. I'm not in these this is nothing camp. There's it's probably going to be something in between just 20, 30 seconds. Why did Jamie Dimon say that he didn't have to introduce the word cockroach? We all went there. We all went there. And I have had a lot of conversations about that. I think he knows when he says something very inspiring. We worked for him for many years. He's very, very intentional. It carries a lot of weight politically. It carries a lot of weight in the investment world. It carries a lot of weight on Main Street. I think that now, mind you, he has been much more cautious over the last number of years oftentimes, than his firm when he gives you his quarterly statement. Right. So I think that he tends towards being more cautious, being more bearish and related to some kind. Nations we've had in the past be more a man of the people as opposed to a man of the market. And so to me, I think he wanted some level of sensationalism or he wouldn't have used that word. We the people understand computers, and especially if you live in New York City, you understand cockroaches to him. If you're a super in a building, you call them water bugs. You don't call them cockroaches, don't like them at all. Ali, thank you. I really appreciate it. Linda McCartney, she's managing director of wealth management, private wealth advisor with Alignment Partners over at UBS. We're going to talk Ellen and Tessa in just a moment. But first up, check on the trade. Yeah, here's Alexis. Christopher is in for Charlie Pound. Hey, Alexis. No water bugs or cockroaches on Wall Street today because investor is once again turning a blind eye to the ongoing government shutdown now in day 23 and focusing on a new batch of strong earnings reports. Investors, of course, also looking ahead to tomorrow's all important consumer price index or more clues about the pace of inflation. The Dow Jones Industrial Average up 178 points. We've got the S&P 500 adding about 47 near an all time high. The Nasdaq composite climbing to 32. Oil is soaring after the U.S. announced sanctions on Russia's two biggest oil companies, threatening supplies from one of the world's top producing countries. We've got WTI crude up 5.6%. Global benchmark, Brent up five and a third percent. American Airlines reported a smaller than expected loss last quarter, driven by a rebound in business and leisure leisure travel in the domestic market. The carrier expects to return to profitability this quarter. And shares of American Airlines up now 7.6%. And some good news for home buyers. Mortgage rates now at their lowest level in more than a year at 6.19%. That's according to Freddie Mac. Lower rates and more properties on the market helped push sales of previously owned homes up one and a half percent in September. That's the fastest pace in seven months for on demand news 24 hours a day. Subscribe to Bloomberg News now wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Alexis Christoffer. Is that's a Bloomberg Business flashback to Carolyn Tim All right. So appreciate it. Alexis in for Charlie Pellet Carol Massar Tim Stanek live here at Bloomberg headquarters in New York City. Well, Tesla shares, if you check them out, they have been bouncing up 1.4% right now. They turn positive later in the session, but for most of the day, they were lower. Yeah, down almost 6% at their lows today. Right. Listen, the company came out, they posted earnings late yesterday. Results largely disappointing profit missing estimates despite record vehicle deliveries and operating income plunging 40% in the third quarter. Tim. Meantime, the head of the company, the world's richest man, we were talking about Elon Musk, he hijacked the earnings call pleading with investors to approve his $1 trillion pay package and blasting the shareholder advisory firms that have come out against the proposal. The point is, I just think that there needs to be enough voting controlled to give a strong influence, but not not so much that I can't be fired if I go insane. That's it. A classic case. That's just in case I got insane. Hey, hey, look, just those two things. I guess that's the problem here. That's what we're doing. I guess so. I don't know. All right. That's Elon Musk apparently making the case last night for that pay package on the earnings call and really, I guess, his position at the company. Let's talk all things Elon and Tesla. With us is Bloomberg Businessweek senior reporter Max Chaffin, co-host of the Everybody's Business podcast, author of The Contrarian Peter Thiel and Silicon Valley's Pursuit of Power right here in studio. All right. We got a lot to talk about. That's classic Elon. It is. I mean, there's probably no figure in modern life who so openly flirts with the idea of his own insanity as Elon Musk. And but, of course, what he's talking about on an earnings call, on an earnings call ability, of course, what he's saying essentially is you got to let me cook. And the only reason I should be fired is if I am going, you know, going crazy. And that would be crazier than he normally is because, of course, he's he's pretty out there on an on a normal day. And for for believers that's that's kind of part of the appeal. Dare I say, Max, a lot of people would say even though they would could be critical of $1,000,000,000,000 pay package, they say, well, what would Tesla be without Elon Musk? Yeah, and that's kind of the difficult position that investors find themselves in this company where, yeah, there is some opposition to this pay package and we've seen some of the shareholder advisory firms come out against it. But I think for most investors you're kind of in a position where if you put if you say no to this package and Elon Musk threatens to leave or even does leave, the stock falls. Right? It doesn't it doesn't go up because so much of this company's value is about the future. And that future is all about Elon Musk. The other thing I'll say about this pay package, big as it is, it's mostly it's requiring the company to get even bigger, to return to hit milestones that that seem almost cartoonish at this point. So if you're an investor, you're saying, well, I mean, you know, let's hope it works out. He's he's he's been effective before. Why not this time? Well, I'm going to say one investor, we're talking about New York State and the comptroller, Thomas DiNapoli, did say that Tesla pay package for Elon is overly generous, lacks clear performance metrics to justify the $1 trillion that he could earn. Under this proposal. He plans to vote against the compensation package and Tesla directors up for re-election on November six. He spoke with Bloomberg Surveillance on TV earlier today. When you see the excessive compensation package, I mean, you know, credit to Mr. Musk. He's already one of the richest men in the world. How much more rich does one person have to be? I don't know. I'm not that rich, but so I think it's. I don't know. I don't know. I know we joke about that, but I don't know if that's the right question to be asking, Max. Is it about wealth or is it about control? I think it's about both. I mean, you know, people always say and you always hear things like, well, you and must doesn't care. He's so rich. He has hundreds of hundreds billion dollars. What's another couple hundred billion dollars? But I think I think when you're talking about this level of wealth, you do like the amount of money he stands to make on this package. Would, you know, double his wealth potentially so. So that is a big difference. And the other thing, Tim, as you said, Musk says this is about control. It's about being able to maintain his position, to essentially be able to operate without any kind of shareholder activism, a critic might say without constraint. You know, having said that, you go to the core business, right? And it's like, listen, for a long time he and Tesla did not really face much competition here in the U.S. And he and Tesla for a long time. Promise, promise, promise didn't deliver. And then they started to deliver. But the environment is changing. But so, too, is the evolution continuing for Tesla as a company, right? Whether it's battery storage and other businesses. But I don't know what is the business and does that business, would it be able to hit some of these metrics to justify this pay package? I mean, that is what's so difficult. And to the point that Thomas Napoli's making in there, you know, Tesla has not done that great over the last couple of years. The stock price has been has been phenomenal investors and particularly like the kind of retail investors who follow what Elon Musk says and buy his stock like they they are in love with this thing. There is a boom in A.I.. Elon Musk is talking a lot about A.I., but you know, car sales have not been great. And even in this quarter, which was good, right, where sales went way up, margins went down. And there is a sense among investors and you've even heard this from the company itself, that this is going to be a bit of an aberration, because what happened is the tax credit, the 7500 bucks, is effectively making electric cars cheaper. It went away as part of the big, beautiful bill that that you know, that Trump passed. So so this is kind of like a one time thing. We have a bunch of people basically moving purchases forward at the same time. Lots of competition from lots of automakers out. Now, we talked about this, really. For years, for almost a decade, like, you know, GM and others are going to come. Well, they're here now. There are a bunch of really great electric cars that cost the same amount of money or in some markets less than a Tesla. You know, Bouzid has cars in Europe that are very, very competitive with Tesla and are cheaper. GM has cars now that are about the same price as the cheapest car and then are competitive. So. So that's a challenge. And then on the other hand, you have Musk's kind of fantastic promises around humanoid robots, around autonomy, and that stuff is hard to value. You basically either value that at zero or you value it at like $220 trillion. And so so it's kind of a gap in the discourse around this company. So, look, obviously, none of us know the answer about how to value that business. But if if increasingly these autos are becoming a commodity and outside of the US, especially with competition, be bhiwadi and show me then it looks like a more insular market for Tesla, at least for autos here in the U.S. If they don't lean into Optimus, if they don't lean into other technology. Yeah, I think well, I think there are two things. So one is optimists. Humanoid robot Elon Musk says, you know, very soon in a matter of years, we're going to have these things in our homes. They're going to be like friends. You're like, not even going to be able to tie. I think you said in the earnings call, you're not going to barely be able to tell it's a robot. Like, if that's true, obviously that's great. The other thing the other thing is, is sort of robo taxis, unsupervised self-driving, which Tesla has yet to do, but it is is trying to do that. There is a question of how you value that because you want Musk has said for years and years and years, you know basically that is worth an unlimited amount of money. Your cars will increase in value. Right. Because of this thing. But you're seeing Chinese companies essentially give this stuff away. So that's why I say, like, we don't really know how valuable this is yet, even though the idea of not having to drive your car in me and we'll take a nap, that obviously sounds great. It's just unclear how much people will pay for that and how much they will be asked to pay for that. Given that a bunch of other automakers are giving away very similar technology. It's also not quietly quite doable. Right. Like like listen, we've talked about Waymo, how much we love it. But I mean, it's still tricky and the infrastructure doesn't necessarily support it everywhere. No, do not take a nap in your Tesla today despite what you see on Twitter. Yeah, I mean, there there are huge question marks here. And I think when you look at Waymo, it's a big success, but it's a success in a very narrow way, like a defined number of markets operating at slow speed. You know, they don't drive on highways yet. You know, there's tons of supervision, There's remote supervision. We've talked about this same thing with Tesla and Waymo has been very deliberate, you know, rolling this out in just a handful of markets, moving very slowly. I think Tesla and I think most people who cover the autonomy space closely believe that there is no way Tesla gets anywhere near the timelines that Elon Musk is talking about. Where, you know, what we kind of expect is that it follows more like the Waymo path now, of course. And if it does that, it's worth a lot less money. Now, of course, Elon Musk is telling a different story where we're one day he's going to just basically flip the switch and you're going to see this deploy everywhere. We had an interesting conversation with Roscoe Brown with that board, though, yesterday on the academic differences between the Read Our Light, our side of things with Waymo and the vision only stuff with Tesla. Where do you fall on that, Max? Is that do you believe that? I mean, Russ Gerber doesn't think it's possible to have vision only self-driving. There are a lot of a lot of experts who I've talked to who are very skeptical of the technical approach, which I think is is a problem. The great thing about LiDAR is it's like an additional safety feature. I also think, again, there are so many reasons to think that the timeline is is going to take much longer than than what we're talking about, that it's almost not worth parsing the technical differences. This is something that is going to take decades to pull off in the way that you want. Musk wants it to pull off relevant When you've got a company that trades with a P of 320 or a forward p e of about 262. Right. Because these are things that aren't going to happen so quickly. Got to run. Love, love, love. Max Chaffin, senior reporter at Bloomberg Businessweek, co-host of the Everybody's Business podcast and author of The Contrarian Peter Thiel in Silicon Valley's Pursuit of Power. Coming up next, how genetics could improve health outcomes for women where R&D lags. Next on Bloomberg Businessweek. 240. On Wall Street, I'm Alexis Christofferson. Stocks are in rally mode, boosted by tech as investors step in to buy after a batch of strong earnings results. The Dow Jones Industrial Average up more than 190 points. We've got the S&P 500 making up yesterday's losses and then some on a gain of about 48. Also near an all time high for the S&P. The NASDAQ composite is up 226 points or 1%. We've also got oil sprinting higher today. WTI crude up 5.6% to the global benchmark. Brent up five and a half percent after the U.S. slapped sanctions on the Kremlin's two largest oil producers in an effort to pressure Russia, Russia to end its war in Ukraine. That surge in oil fueling concerns about the impact on inflation. One day before we get that delayed release of the September Consumer Price index, all of that sending bond yields higher. The ten year yield, 3.99%, the two year yield at 3.48%, and shares of IBM slipping one and a quarter percent after the tech giant reported disappointing growth for a key part of its software division. That offset better than expected third quarter results and a boosted sales outlook. And consumer products giant Unilever posting stronger than expected sales and profits for last quarter with hair and makeup products leading the charge, the maker of Dove and Vaseline also maintaining its annual guidance. Shares of Unilever up now 4/10 of 1% for on demand news 24 hours a day. Subscribe to Bloomberg News now wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Alexis Bristol for us. That's your Bloomberg Business Flash. I got it. Alexis, thank you so much. Why, hey, over the summer, a Bloomberg Opinion piece pointed out that new research shows Americans need greater access to genetic testing and stronger legal protections against genetic discrimination. According to a recent study that was published in the American Journal of Human Genetics. Now the study of DNA samples from the Penn Medicine Biobank found that a quarter of adults under the age of 40 who had been admitted to the Penn medicine ICU carried a mutation that would have been relevant to their treatment. So it's just talking about the importance of understanding your genetics and what it could mean for health and that genetic testing. What becomes available, changes so frequently. I mean, year to year they can identify more and more. Yeah, exactly. And our next guest has a vast body of work when it comes to the field of genetics. Let's get to our weekly Business Week women's health segment, where we focus on key issues and developing technologies impacting the present and future of women's health around the world. And really, in many ways, everybody's health around the world. Joining us right now is Dr. Wendy Chang, chief of pediatrics at Boston Children's Hospital. She is the Mary Ellen Avery, professor of pediatrics at Harvard Medical School, and she joins us from London where it's a little bit later. So thank you so much, Dr. Chang, for joining us. You have spent more than two decades as a clinical and molecular geneticist and have directed many NIH funded research programs. Got to ask, are we at a good time for health care advantage advancements, excuse me? Or are we possibly going backwards? We have amazing opportunities, amazing opportunities, specifically around genetics, both in terms of diagnostics, predicting and being able to tailor health and health prevention and health treatment based on that and new things in terms of therapeutics, especially in the rare disease space. So it couldn't be a more exciting time in terms of the ability to scale this, to use data, to do it more accurately and to get it to more people where they're at. It sounds exciting and the opportunity is so exciting. But we're at a point with the United States where we don't have great outcomes compared to the rest of the world. We lag when it comes to other countries and their health outcomes. Why is that, from your view? In many cases it's due to access. And as we think about this, we're trying to think of ways that we can provide care anywhere. So are there ways to think about how do we get access to patients where they are in ways that can fit in with their lives and get them really news they can use as the way I think about it, when they can use it just in time to be able to do it, ingested, understand it and apply it in ways that really fit in with their life. We have amazing opportunities, but we don't do them equitably for everyone. Well, you know, Dr. Chung, Tim and I spend so much time talking about the K-shaped economy. Right. And that on an economic level, not everybody benefits from the US economy, even in good times. So that obviously carries over to health care. If you could change one thing, what would it be that would make health care more equitable? So if you can imagine this future state, I've been running a study in New York City called Guardian Genomic Uniform Screening against Rare diseases and all newborns for a baby when they get their heel prick right after birth to be able to screen for disorders that are treatable and curable, things like Phenylketonuria. Now, can we think about blowing that up in a good way by being able to do genome sequencing to identify all the treatable conditions so that everyone gets access to this? And for those same children, if they get sick and have symptoms at some point in the future, we interrogate that genomic information to make the diagnosis essentially instantaneously. So if they're having breathing problems, growing problems, problems with development, not hitting their milestones, can you get the diagnosis very, very quickly to start the journey and make sure that diagnostic odyssey doesn't go on for very long? Start the treatment. All right. Logical question. Follow up. Why don't we do that? Is it just too expensive or what? You know, it's funny. I was talking to an individual who is from South Korea or has family back in South Korea and says, you know, every year you can go in and get a body scan, head to toe. Not crazy expensive like it would be here in the United States. And you can get potentially early signs of something that's that's not good. So I'm just wondering when it comes to why don't we do these genetic testing, is it not available? Is it too expensive? So it is being done on a research basis on a very small number of newborns right now. But I'll throw down the gauntlet. I think we can drive down the price of doing being able to do this. And right now let's just say it costs $1,000 per baby to be able to do this. That's probably not something that we can scale up 3.6 million babies born each year. But if we can drive down the cost by 50%, 75%, I do think if you look at the health economics in terms of the return on investment, it easily pays for itself over a ten year period. But what about when it comes to using that data for technology such as gene editing? And we spoke to Jennifer Doudna, the 2020 Nobel laureate, a few months ago at our Bloomberg Technology conference back in San Francisco. She was very optimistic that we will see this happening more and more in humans. Will this become just the standard of care, in your view, for kids who have genetic disorders? So I do think for these single gene conditions, platform technologies such as what Dr. Doudna and others have developed, they're not quite ready for prime time to just dial in any particular genetic edit and fix it. But we are getting towards those platforms to be able to do this. And I do think that over the next decade we're going to make tremendous strides. And I do think from a regulatory point of view, the FDA and other regulatory agencies understand that within rare diseases you need to think about platforms and being able to use information for one rare disease in terms of treatments for others and to understand the safety profile and use that across conditions. And so for the 7000 rare diseases, I don't think we have to solve the problem 7000 times. I think it's going to come to a much simpler number of solutions. Hey, one thing we wanted to ask you about, a recent article in Nature. You were quoted that Martha's spotlight on children's health is welcome and that this could be the decade of the kids. And that would be an amazing thing. How so? Especially when we see an administration secretary of HHS pushing back on things like vaccines and other policies that your research has shown has definitely improved health in the United States. So I think if you think about the technology that I talked about with newborn screening, it can be applied to any number of things for children. So that, again, if you know where the pain points are, if you know what the susceptibilities, you can think about everything from how a child can learn better if they're going to have certain challenges in terms of understanding, learning behavior or how to be able to tailor things to them if they're going to have problems in terms of a tendency towards type one diabetes, asthma, even cancer in the future, how do you tailor their surveillance, the particular things we monitor or how frequently we monitor? So it's not a one size fits all for everyone. You really get more out of the energy and the money you're putting into it because it's tailored for the person. And I do think both in terms of being able to have biomarkers, looking at disease progression and genomics to guide you, we can do much better because we have enough data now to be able to understand those patterns and profiles. We've run out of time, but hopefully come back real soon because I know emerging technologies, whether it's artificial intelligence or quantum computing, which all of a sudden this week we're talking a lot about are going to be very important metrics when it comes to disease predictability. So please, please come back really soon. Dr. Wendy Chang, chief of pediatrics at Boston Children's Hospital. She is the Mary Ellen Avery, professor of pediatrics at Harvard Medical School, and she's joining us from London on this Thursday. Well, on this Thursday, stocks in the green, 7/10 of 1% to the upside on the S&P 500 right now. NASDAQ composite up a full percentage point. The Dow up to the tune of 200 of points. That's just about 4/10 of 1%. Got most names in the S&P 500, more than 300 to the upside. Hey, when we come back, we've got a check on the stocks on the move right here on Bloomberg Businessweek Daily. You're listening to Bloomberg Businessweek Daily with Carol Massar and Tim Stone event on Bloomberg Radio and Television. All right, everybody, we're coming up on our last hour of trading Carol Massar Tim Standard back live here at Bloomberg headquarters. We're bumping around here our best levels of the session. So we're up about 7/10 of a percent on the S&P 500. Dow up just about 4/10 of one percentage point. NASDAQ 100 outperformance there it is, up about 9/10 of a percent. This as we get ready for a batch of earnings to drop after the closing bell today. It's pretty broad based energy Is the leader today in the green to the tune of 1.77% in terms of industry groups, the only industry group in the red, Carol, consumer staples down 4/10 of 1%. Yeah, we're looking at oil spiking today. We kicked off the show talking about that. Right now you're looking at WTI crude futures up about 5.4%, 6166 a barrel. So we've seen a move to the upside. I'm Jim Standard EQ along with Carol Massar. Let's take a look at some stocks on the move today. With us is Bloomberg News cross asset reporter Denita Strycova and Teresa. It's smack dab in the middle of earnings season, so we got some earnings stories. Yeah. Let's start with one of the big winners, American Airlines. It was up as much as 8%. Now the stock is up 6.4%. The thinker, of course, is AOL, and it's coming off pretty good. Earnings. Adjusted earnings per share were well above what the street was expected. The street expected to just it was about $0.17. And once we got the expected $0.27 and we got $0.17, so we're seeing big relief there. The stock is actually down 31% before the earnings reports. It comes after a pretty strong quarter for all airlines. We're not talking only about American Airlines. We're seeing strong trends in corporate us in premium leisure demand. What people are saying is that premium cabin demand has been very strong. But some analysts are worried that we may be seeing peaks there a big there. So that's one concern and that's one reason investors have been potentially worried. But today, very strong reaction. American is the last of the big four airlines to report quarterly numbers. We've had really strong, really strong earnings season for them. And what we're seeing from the airline is that it now sees a profit this year. It was previously forecasting a loss. So big shift there. Yeah, exactly. So return to profitability, right, in the fourth quarter. So that is a big deal. Hey, one that has certainly been on our radar over the last week. Ticker is B, Y and we're talking about Beyond Meat. I mean, it's been on a tear until kind of as of late, maybe as of today. Yeah, For the most part, this is not really a fundamental story, isn't earnings, but it's about an increase. And we really care about the name Chris. It's beyond meat. The thicker is b, Y and the shares yesterday was up as much as 112% and then they ended up lower. Today they were down as much as 23% and they're still down double digits. And it's been a very volatile session. It's one of those new favorite names. There was one investor, Dimitri, Shimon King, who posted on social media, and then there was a whole retail craze. But we've seen so much volatility with those momentum names like this boom started on Friday. It's already fading like the meme stock we've seen this year. It's a little bit different, like less long lasting then some of the chance seen before. I guess retail traders are excited about many things like zero day options and so many others, but the stock is still down about 20% this year. It's obviously very far from the peak we saw during the pandemic. It received a massive boost. People were ditching me for those healthier alternative. It was such a craze like it was impossible to find in restaurants. But now the investors are cooling down and even meme traders are cooling down. I mean, I'm just looking at the function on the Bloomberg I mean, declining revenue growth, you know, negative free cash flow. Yeah, I, I don't know. The fundamentals are not there. Yeah that's it And it's a pretty UN telecom also hearing from some telecoms companies of late T-Mobile what's going on with T-Mobile today. Yeah T-Mobile had a great earnings report but investors weren't so excited they expected better than expected subscriber growth. But investor focus on increasing competition, of course, this is the number to operate. There is a T, Christy and you as the stock is down about 3% now. And the fierce battle is, of course, with AT&T and Verizon. They've been doing all those different deals to kind of dangle promotions to learn new customers. Of course, there's just been a new iPhone and that has kind of helped. According to T-Mobile, it has added 1 million new mobile phone subscribers in the three months at the end of September. So pretty strong. That said, their churn rate has risen a little bit. AT&T said a similar thing. So perhaps people are moving fast between different carriers and T-Mobile's. Average revenue per user is actually lower than what the street expected. So perhaps that explains some of the. His appointment here. But yeah, interesting space to watch. T-Mobile was actually flat here today and obviously a lot of pressure today after our earnings report that the analysts were pretty optimistic about. Yeah, that's kind of interesting, right? I mean, I feel like we've seen a lot of earnings reports coming in fairly decent, but this one maybe some question. But I also feel like with this space, what's interesting is that it was only 1 million customers, not even one quarter. You know, you think of like the big three wireless providers, AT&T, T-Mobile and Verizon. But then you have all these like smaller offshoots that end up just essentially leasing capacity or leasing spectrum from exactly the big ones. So you're paying them kind of no matter what. I have so many of my friends actually using those. It's fascinating. I wonder. Exactly. Exactly. I got to tell you, I feel like you went through the list. It's like been our carriers, I feel like over the last couple of years because we've been bouncing around and it's just never really happy, not loyal. Well, hmm. All right. Bloomberg news cross has that reporter denise us to cover. Joining us, check out our stock movers podcast. Five minute episodes of the biggest winners and losers in the stock market. Find it on apple, spotify or anywhere you get your podcasts. Hey, we got a great program coming up on Bloomberg Businessweek Daily. If you continuing with us, what is up with the US government and quantum companies? Also, the, quote, mind boggling fraud alleged by the FBI? Oh, my gosh. It's one of the most read. Stick around.
Musk Hijacks Call Over Pay Package | Bloomberg Businessweek Daily 10/23/2025
Summary
Transcript
This is Bloomberg Businessweek Daily, reporting from the magazine that helps global leaders stay ahead with insight on the people, companies and trends shaping today's complex economy. Plus, global business, finance and tech news as it happens, Bloomberg Business Week Daily with Carol Massar and Tim Stanek back live on Bloomberg Radio, Television, YouTube and Bloomberg Originals. And a very good afternoon, everybody. Yes, indeed. This is Thursday. What a week it's been. October 23rd, 2025 Carol Massar Tim Scientific live here at bloomberg headquarters. I got to say, putting the show together, it was a little bit tricky because there's a lot once again coming at investors. We have seen stocks though they have been higher. But what's interesting is treasury yields too, have spiked as oil prices have kind of rekindled some of those concerns when it comes to inflation. We've got an inflation print rate we expect tomorrow, Tim. And then you've got, what, a Fed meeting next week? We do. And we are expecting to get data about jobless claims at 4:00 today. Rate happens with a shot down. The state data, as Michael McKee just explained to me, is sent to the Labor Department. They release it in Excel format. Got to do some number crunching, but just a deep tease for the 4:00 hour. Michael McKee is going to be with us to break down that data and preview everything next week. Super important as we think about what's going to become our way potentially tomorrow as well. Having said that, in the next 60 minutes, we are going to hear from House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries on President Trump on U.S. priorities. And of course, that does include the US government shutdown. Am I correct? 23rd day? Yeah. Today's day 23. Yeah. So how many more days it goes also? Elon Musk's hijacking of Tesla's earnings call. If you caught that last night, even if you didn't stick around, Max is going to be joining us. Max chats to him a little bit later. If I was offered $1,000,000,000,000 in pay package, I'd be pleading to just get away. Would you be satisfied with the $450 million that you already have? Yeah, that's kind of deal to know. All right. We're also going to get into how emerging technologies, including AI and quantum computing, are changing the nature of making health care diagnoses. So we're going to get into that. It's a busy 60 minutes. It's a busy 3 hours. So stick around, everybody. First up, though, a check of the day's trade and top business stories. Here she is. Alexis Christopher is in for Charlie today. Alexis, Thanks, guys. A big rally here in big tech driving stocks higher in the run up to tomorrow's reading on consumer prices, which we know will get Fed officials a critical piece of information on inflation ahead of their policy meeting the following week. The Dow industrials now up 189 points. The S&P 500 back in record territory on a gain of about 46. And the Nasdaq composite racing ahead up to 31. Gold is advancing, paring some of the week's steep declines, up now about 1% at 4138 the ounce and oil, of course, the big story this week, climbing WTI up five and a quarter percent at 6158. The barrel that jump in oil stoking fears of higher inflation and that is pushing yields higher. So we have the yield on the ten year at 3.99%, two year yield at 3.47%. By the way, Binance coin, that's on our radar today. It is jumping right now 5.6%. After exchange co-founder Changpeng Zhao received a pardon from President Trump. Taking a look at stocks making news, toymaker Hasbro raised its full year outlook and said sales are ramping up ahead of the holidays after continued strength. And it's Magic, the Gathering franchise. And it's Wizards of the Coast. A business helped to boost third quarter profit and revenue. Hasbro up three and three quarters percent. And we are of course keeping an eye on Ford and Intel, both out with earnings after the closing bell. Ford down just about half a percent. Intel, though, up one and a half percent for on demand news 24 hours a day. Subscribe to Bloomberg News now wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Alexis Christoff for us. That's your Bloomberg business. Flash back to Carol and Tim. All right, Alexis, thank you so much. Jim Farley Ford, of course, the CEO. He's going to be joining us in the 4:00 420 ten end for 24, 24, 20. That's when it's happening. It's now like Tesla's 420. All right. Thank you, Carol Massar. I know. I know. All right. Let's talk about some of the stories that are going on, certainly out of the nation's capital. Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy warned that flight disruptions would continue across the U.S. as the government shutdown drags into its fourth week. More than 13,000 air traffic controllers and 50,000 Transportation Security Administration agents are being forced to work during the shutdown without pay. Just one important part of the government, as you know, that is being impacted by this breakdown between Republicans and Democrats, a breakdown that we seem to see over and over and over again. Bloomberg News correspondent and host of the big tech podcast, David Gura, sat down for an interview with House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries to talk about the relationship between the U.S. and Russia, the upcoming New York City mayoral election, and first and foremost, the ongoing government shutdown. As Democrats, we continue to make clear to our Republican colleagues. That we will sit down with them any time, any place in order to reopen the government to negotiate a bipartisan agreement that actually makes life better for the American people in terms of spending and funding. But we also have to decisively address the Republican health care crisis. We've maintained that position from the very beginning before Republicans shut the government down. And during the entirety of the shutdown, because it is a real crisis that has been created at this moment, particularly as it relates to the urgent need to extend the Affordable Care Act tax credits. As you and I are speaking, the House speaker is doing a press conference just down the hall. What is the level of engagement? Do you pass one another? Are you speaking with one another? Are Democrats talking to Republicans right now? The conversations have been very limited, unfortunately, because Donald Trump has not given House Republican leaders or Senate Republican leaders permission to negotiate. Reinforcing the principle from our view that he made the decision to shut the government down. They want to continue to inflict pain on federal employees. They've done that from the very beginning of Donald Trump's presidency. In fact, more than 200,000 federal employees had been forced off the job prior to the government shutdown. And this is something that we've continued to see them build upon during the shutdown. Until Donald Trump gets serious about reopening the government. Unfortunately, we're going to remain in this situation. And every day Americans are being hurt. He's getting ready to take a trip to Asia. Is it appropriate for him to be doing that at this moment when the government is shutdown? I think that the president has a responsibility both domestically and throughout the world. However, what has been irresponsible is that throughout this shutdown, he's found more time to golf than he has to engage with Democrats on Capitol Hill. He's decided to try to steal $230 million in taxpayer funds from the Department of Injustice. Donald Trump and his administration have found $40 billion to bail out a right wing want to be dictator in Argentina and can't find a dime to extend the Affordable Care Act tax credits to keep health care affordable for tens of millions of Americans. And on top of all of that, they are demolishing the East wing of the White House in ways that have appropriately horrified the American people. I want to ask you about potential off ramps and Tammy Baldwin, the senator from Wisconsin. Democrats said Trump is the off ramp at this point. Do you agree with that assessment? And has there been any kind of outreach or dialogue between you and the White House? Leaders Schumer made clear earlier this week that we have reached out to the White House again to indicate that prior to Trump's departure for Asia, he should sit down with Democrats to find a path forward to reopen the government, to enter into a bipartisan spending agreement and to address the health care crisis that Marjorie Taylor GREENE acknowledges must be addressed, and that traditional conservatives who are in the toughest seats in the country have now publicly acknowledged this week needs to be addressed. Can I ask you a question of congressional mechanics? And that is, can the Democratic leader pick up the phone, call the White House, and reasonably expect the president's going to take that phone call? Are you able to do that? And if so, what's keeping you from having that day? Well, traditionally, that probably is the case. But in this White House, that's very much unclear. Donald Trump didn't have a meeting with House or Senate Democratic leadership until two days prior to the government shutting down. That, of course, was House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries with Bloomberg's David Gura. David joining us from the Bloomberg News bureau in the nation's capital. Hey, David. You know, what I picked up from there is, you know, we hear the president and Republicans talk about the shutdown and we hear Democrats separately talk about it. But again, nothing about leaders coming together to really work on the issues that separate them. And I kind of got that from the House minority leader as well. Separately is the key word there, Carol. As I said, these two parties are not speaking with with one another. And I should say at the Capitol building today, it was incredibly quiet. You do have congressional leadership. They are holding press conferences, meeting among themselves. But it is sleepy. Isn't the right word. Empty is perhaps a better word. And it was clear from that conversation that the person who needs to be at the table or at least giving the blessing to Republicans who are at the table is President Trump. And there is, I think, a level of resignation among Democratic leadership that without that, this is just going to continue. So we're poised for President Trump, as we talked about that interview, to take this trip for about a week to to Asia. Again, there's a recognition there that with him absent, this is unlikely to to advance or develop here over the coming days. Yes, I guess the big question on the Democrat and Republican side is what can be done with the president on this trip? What can be done out of the country? Is there a chance that these two sides can come together and the government shutdown, even if he's not around? Well, there is some hope for optimism, of course, but there are a number of kind of pressure points that are on the horizon. I think that's pretty notable. So tomorrow is the first one, October the 24th. That's when a lot of federal workers are not going to receive their paychecks for the first time in this shutdown. So the pain of the shutdown is going to be more acutely felt by more people. And I think what's kind of novel about this shutdown is you've had someone who heads the Office of Management and Budget, the White House really moving things around, playing what he calls budgetary twister to make sure that a number of government employees are paid, certain programs are continued. All of that starts to become more and more difficult here as as the days tick on. So tomorrow, a big pressure point. Another one is next week, November the first, when some SNAP benefits are scheduled to expire and of course, when open enrollment begins for for health care plans. That's the moment at which Democrats believe Americans are going to look at the prospects of their health care going up, becoming more and more expensive. And they're going to perhaps recognize the fact, as Democrats would say, that this is something that's real and important and that having the government shut down so that those subsidies going to be restored is worth doing. I will say I think that message is getting to Americans outside of the Beltway. I was in Arizona last week. The lead story on local news last weekend was about premiums going up for that that open for Obamacare. That is story it seems to be getting out there and people are actually talking about that. David, a lot in that interview. One thing you also touched on was what's coming here in New York in the next couple of weeks, early November, the mayoral election. And the way that Leader Jeffries has or has not yet communicated with is there on Monday, the favorite to win the election here in November. What did he say about that? They have spoken a couple of times and I was optimistic. I had my fingers crossed that he'd be willing to make an endorsement today. During that interview, he declined to do so, but he has said that he's going to speak with somebody again today and tomorrow as he prepares to do that. He talked about the obligation of doing that. I asked him did he watched the debate last night, the final mayoral debate, or did he watch the Knicks season opener? He admitted he watched the last few minutes of the basketball game and not the debate, but he kept up with it and kept up with what the conversation has been. And after he declined to make an endorsement, I really pushed him on. On why what the outstanding issues are. And what he emphasized to me during our conversation is, look, he really applauds Mr. Mondavi for his emphasis on affordability. He thinks that's a signal issue in New York City and one that it's a signal issue across this country for four Democrats who really applauded him for focusing so much on that. But he acknowledged the fact that President Trump is likely to go after New York after this mayoral election takes place. Does Mamdani have the capacity, the experience, to deal with the level of pressure that the federal government is going to bring to bear? So I personally a bit disappointed that we didn't get that endorsement doing my interview today, but it does seem like that's likely. I mean, I think what's what he said over and over again is he plans to weigh in on this race before early voting begins. As both of you know, early voting in New York City is scheduled to start on Saturday of this week. So time is nigh. And he's he's going to do it soon, I should say. He was about like 98% there. I think during the course of our conversation, he really applauded Madani for saying that he planned to keep just skittish as the New York Police Department commissioner, if he is if he is elected. He saw that as a positive step. All right. Last question, though, because this also came up and I feel like people have said to me, why aren't you guys talking about this? But it's all over social media, active, you know, activity. And David, that is what's happening at the White House, the actual physical demolishing of a piece of the White House, I know in the grand scheme of things maybe isn't as important as a lot of other things that are going on in this world. But it feels very symbolic, symbolic despite the actual physicality of what's happening and indicative of a president that can kind of do whatever he wants. What did Mr. Jeffries say on that? He expressed. Dismay over this happening is I think a lot of people in this city have as well. Of course, it's a very old building that has been remodeled in the past, but this is pretty dramatic. And in the past, it would have gone through a lot of reviews. That hasn't happened here. The president said initially he planned to build this ballroom that was going to have no effect on the existing building. Of course, that's not the case. We have seen images and video of the demolition of the East wing of the White House that are startling to a lot of people, as the minority leader said. And then there's just the notion of what's being built there, this massive structure, this 90,000 square foot ballroom, which the president says is essential for the leader of the United States to entertain foreign leaders who come through Washington, D.C., you know, organization of architectural historians pointing out that just proportionality is wrong here. They have a building of that scale. And the White House plan is is just huge. So a lot of people just expressing dismay and stupid vacation over what's happening here. And I should note as well, the price tag on this is has gotten larger over the course of this construction, too. It started out at $200 million. The president said it'd be paid for by himself and private donors. Now the price tag is $300 million. So a lot of people are kind of wondering how this is happening, how it's happening so quickly. And I think that you hitting on kind of the metaphorical side of this is important to care. A lot of people kind of looking at it as a way of the president here moving with some relative impunity. I got to say, I have an old house at 1800s, and I can't even change a window without like a commission weighing in. So there's got to be something when we're talking about the people's house. David, you're not the president, Carol, that's what I'm saying. I'm nothing and nothing. But you're not the price. I can't change a window without stuff coming down on me. And I'm just thinking about the historic significance of that building there on Pennsylvania Avenue. All right, David, thank you as always. Bloomberg News correspondent, host of the big tech podcast, David Gura, Government shutdown. You and I have gone back and forth that it's really not top of mind for investors. It's kind of startling, at least not yet. We know people are worried about the deficit, but it doesn't seem top of mind. Other things are, yeah, earnings, Fed policy, inflation concerns, the data that we do or do not get trying to make sense of this economy. Here with more on that and today's market environment, we've got Ali McCarty back with us. She's managing director of wealth management and private wealth advisor with the Lyman Partners at UBS. She's got just over $1,000,000,000 in assets under management. She's back here in our Bloomberg Businessweek studio. Is there a clear narrative to you about where exactly markets go next? No, there isn't. I know that I have an opinion. Many on the sell on the buy side have an opinion. But I think what's very interesting now is we're in this environment where we have peak uncertainty. Many would argue we have more uncertainty than we did even coming into this year. We have at peak multiples peak valuations and we have the lowest risk premium that we've seen in in hardly ever. Right. So you sit there with a market where you're looking at putting a dollar to work and you say, Do I do it on fixed income? I'm concerned a little bit about private credit. Yields are at their tight, it spreads are at their tightest. So you don't go there. You say, okay, do I go into equities? Oh, I don't know if I feel like going into equities right now. Okay. What about commodities? Well, I do think it's a great hedge. I do think the dollar's going down. But do I go into an asset that is supposed to be there for structural diversification and it's up 40, 50, 60% depending on whether you're looking at gold, palladium. So it is I'm finding it. And a client of mine actually use this wording. He said this is an environment about fear, either fear of investing or fear of missing out on the upside. And there's not a lot in the middle. She's at Palladium Tarot. She said Palladium. I just mentioned palladium in the 2 p.m. hour. Okay, Jack, listen, you and I were sitting in the makeup room getting ready to come on air, and you said something to me about some of your clients, these high net worth individuals. And just to show the range of thinking that's out there with people who have a lot at stake. Yeah. So again, these are people who have a lot at stake. In addition, there are people that either are entrepreneurs that are sort of in markets dealing with tech, dealing with health care every day and or, you know, some of the people that I talk about, our financial professionals, their private equity people, they run hedge funds. So they're really seeing what's happening. So, you know, to clients very similar balance sheet, you know, one is probably 80% in equities. She's so happy with that. She's had 20% returns for the last three years. And most of yesterday was focused on should we be borrowing to increase that amount. Wow, rates are going down. Equities, you still you know, you people have a 73 sorry, 7300 target on the S&P. So. Right. This is a no brainer. And fast forward to you know that was 2:00 3:00 was we'd like to sell everything and we'd like to figure out what we can. Another client is a person right now, another client, similar portfolio. Right. So, you know, when you talk about how emotion, you know, finish what they say, you're going to sell everything. So they want to sell everything. And they said, you know, something akin to what can we do to put capital at risk to profit in a true black. One scenario. I like shorting NBC in 2008 and I literally am having those two conversations and everything in between. And then my job is to use UBS, to use our resources, to use my personal network of people like that and sort of take a pulse and then take the institutional and technical part and get on top of it. But I do think, like we say all the time, this time's different or this time feels more challenging. But again, if you have a dollar and know fixed income doesn't make sense, equity feels too high and commodities or relative diversifier is don't feel right, what do you do? Really struck by the client who wanted to do more on margin. Yeah. Is that something that's. Is that a one off? Is that idiosyncratic for for you and your clients or you guys says, okay, it doesn't. That's not really wealth managers don't typically do stuff on like they're not trained. Well okay. So yes and no. So there's something called like structural strategic leverage. Right. If you could borrow at 3%, which you could for a long time, I still have people that have 1% on their books and you could invest at what you thought was a minimum of four just because of your portfolio. Maximum of 20. Right. You would do that all day, Meaning you're you're getting a are you talking about getting a line of credit for tax purposes against your securities? That's that's not what I heard from you, though. I heard from you going getting up, leveraging up and buying more equities, using margin. Is that is that what they're thinking? So it's not make it and that's okay. They do have a collateralized. But what it means is that ultimately that person is so bullish and that FOMO example that 80% equities is not enough. Right. There's no way we could get them to a perspective. And so that what's their other 20%, 80%, they're obviously looking to up that. What else are they? So it's what it is. And honestly, my fixed income allocation is pretty boring because of what we just described about fixed income. So it's short duration, treasuries, short to medium duration, AIG. And then if we have a retirement asset, a little bit of upper tier high yield, but it's not that much more complicated than that. I don't know your private credit. Yeah, so private credit, I'm going to leave sort of the whole conversation about what's been happening aside, because I'm sure you've had a million conversations about is it systemic, is it specific? Feel free to weave it in, though, because we think it's an important one that we aren't quite dropping. I think it's an important one. I have always been a believer in and Lehman as part of my life is is where this comes from. That part of risk management means transparency. Being nimble and knowing what you own. Because when things go against you, they go against you quickly and you can't have it if you are locked up or you don't exactly know who you're lending to. So for me, private credit served a purpose when there were no rates or diversification to be gotten in the general fixed income market. Yeah, but when that ceased to be, i.e. when rates went up significantly during the pandemic, there was a much higher hurdle for private credit for me. Now, I think that when people talk about it being late in the credit cycle, that's sort of a cheeky way of saying rates are going to go one way, Spreads are tight and there's some behavior, some underwriting that may be a little bit of bullying or excessive. Right. Do I think that that has happened and that there's also fraud? There's always fraud. There's always a balance. Do I think it's relative to the standards or the lack of standards during the financial crisis and mortgage crisis? No, but there's been a lot of money put to work. And, you know, I don't know everybody's underwriting standards and I don't know everybody's liquidity profile. But so I would say I'm not in a cockroach camp. I'm not in these this is nothing camp. There's it's probably going to be something in between just 20, 30 seconds. Why did Jamie Dimon say that he didn't have to introduce the word cockroach? We all went there. We all went there. And I have had a lot of conversations about that. I think he knows when he says something very inspiring. We worked for him for many years. He's very, very intentional. It carries a lot of weight politically. It carries a lot of weight in the investment world. It carries a lot of weight on Main Street. I think that now, mind you, he has been much more cautious over the last number of years oftentimes, than his firm when he gives you his quarterly statement. Right. So I think that he tends towards being more cautious, being more bearish and related to some kind. Nations we've had in the past be more a man of the people as opposed to a man of the market. And so to me, I think he wanted some level of sensationalism or he wouldn't have used that word. We the people understand computers, and especially if you live in New York City, you understand cockroaches to him. If you're a super in a building, you call them water bugs. You don't call them cockroaches, don't like them at all. Ali, thank you. I really appreciate it. Linda McCartney, she's managing director of wealth management, private wealth advisor with Alignment Partners over at UBS. We're going to talk Ellen and Tessa in just a moment. But first up, check on the trade. Yeah, here's Alexis. Christopher is in for Charlie Pound. Hey, Alexis. No water bugs or cockroaches on Wall Street today because investor is once again turning a blind eye to the ongoing government shutdown now in day 23 and focusing on a new batch of strong earnings reports. Investors, of course, also looking ahead to tomorrow's all important consumer price index or more clues about the pace of inflation. The Dow Jones Industrial Average up 178 points. We've got the S&P 500 adding about 47 near an all time high. The Nasdaq composite climbing to 32. Oil is soaring after the U.S. announced sanctions on Russia's two biggest oil companies, threatening supplies from one of the world's top producing countries. We've got WTI crude up 5.6%. Global benchmark, Brent up five and a third percent. American Airlines reported a smaller than expected loss last quarter, driven by a rebound in business and leisure leisure travel in the domestic market. The carrier expects to return to profitability this quarter. And shares of American Airlines up now 7.6%. And some good news for home buyers. Mortgage rates now at their lowest level in more than a year at 6.19%. That's according to Freddie Mac. Lower rates and more properties on the market helped push sales of previously owned homes up one and a half percent in September. That's the fastest pace in seven months for on demand news 24 hours a day. Subscribe to Bloomberg News now wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Alexis Christoffer. Is that's a Bloomberg Business flashback to Carolyn Tim All right. So appreciate it. Alexis in for Charlie Pellet Carol Massar Tim Stanek live here at Bloomberg headquarters in New York City. Well, Tesla shares, if you check them out, they have been bouncing up 1.4% right now. They turn positive later in the session, but for most of the day, they were lower. Yeah, down almost 6% at their lows today. Right. Listen, the company came out, they posted earnings late yesterday. Results largely disappointing profit missing estimates despite record vehicle deliveries and operating income plunging 40% in the third quarter. Tim. Meantime, the head of the company, the world's richest man, we were talking about Elon Musk, he hijacked the earnings call pleading with investors to approve his $1 trillion pay package and blasting the shareholder advisory firms that have come out against the proposal. The point is, I just think that there needs to be enough voting controlled to give a strong influence, but not not so much that I can't be fired if I go insane. That's it. A classic case. That's just in case I got insane. Hey, hey, look, just those two things. I guess that's the problem here. That's what we're doing. I guess so. I don't know. All right. That's Elon Musk apparently making the case last night for that pay package on the earnings call and really, I guess, his position at the company. Let's talk all things Elon and Tesla. With us is Bloomberg Businessweek senior reporter Max Chaffin, co-host of the Everybody's Business podcast, author of The Contrarian Peter Thiel and Silicon Valley's Pursuit of Power right here in studio. All right. We got a lot to talk about. That's classic Elon. It is. I mean, there's probably no figure in modern life who so openly flirts with the idea of his own insanity as Elon Musk. And but, of course, what he's talking about on an earnings call, on an earnings call ability, of course, what he's saying essentially is you got to let me cook. And the only reason I should be fired is if I am going, you know, going crazy. And that would be crazier than he normally is because, of course, he's he's pretty out there on an on a normal day. And for for believers that's that's kind of part of the appeal. Dare I say, Max, a lot of people would say even though they would could be critical of $1,000,000,000,000 pay package, they say, well, what would Tesla be without Elon Musk? Yeah, and that's kind of the difficult position that investors find themselves in this company where, yeah, there is some opposition to this pay package and we've seen some of the shareholder advisory firms come out against it. But I think for most investors you're kind of in a position where if you put if you say no to this package and Elon Musk threatens to leave or even does leave, the stock falls. Right? It doesn't it doesn't go up because so much of this company's value is about the future. And that future is all about Elon Musk. The other thing I'll say about this pay package, big as it is, it's mostly it's requiring the company to get even bigger, to return to hit milestones that that seem almost cartoonish at this point. So if you're an investor, you're saying, well, I mean, you know, let's hope it works out. He's he's he's been effective before. Why not this time? Well, I'm going to say one investor, we're talking about New York State and the comptroller, Thomas DiNapoli, did say that Tesla pay package for Elon is overly generous, lacks clear performance metrics to justify the $1 trillion that he could earn. Under this proposal. He plans to vote against the compensation package and Tesla directors up for re-election on November six. He spoke with Bloomberg Surveillance on TV earlier today. When you see the excessive compensation package, I mean, you know, credit to Mr. Musk. He's already one of the richest men in the world. How much more rich does one person have to be? I don't know. I'm not that rich, but so I think it's. I don't know. I don't know. I know we joke about that, but I don't know if that's the right question to be asking, Max. Is it about wealth or is it about control? I think it's about both. I mean, you know, people always say and you always hear things like, well, you and must doesn't care. He's so rich. He has hundreds of hundreds billion dollars. What's another couple hundred billion dollars? But I think I think when you're talking about this level of wealth, you do like the amount of money he stands to make on this package. Would, you know, double his wealth potentially so. So that is a big difference. And the other thing, Tim, as you said, Musk says this is about control. It's about being able to maintain his position, to essentially be able to operate without any kind of shareholder activism, a critic might say without constraint. You know, having said that, you go to the core business, right? And it's like, listen, for a long time he and Tesla did not really face much competition here in the U.S. And he and Tesla for a long time. Promise, promise, promise didn't deliver. And then they started to deliver. But the environment is changing. But so, too, is the evolution continuing for Tesla as a company, right? Whether it's battery storage and other businesses. But I don't know what is the business and does that business, would it be able to hit some of these metrics to justify this pay package? I mean, that is what's so difficult. And to the point that Thomas Napoli's making in there, you know, Tesla has not done that great over the last couple of years. The stock price has been has been phenomenal investors and particularly like the kind of retail investors who follow what Elon Musk says and buy his stock like they they are in love with this thing. There is a boom in A.I.. Elon Musk is talking a lot about A.I., but you know, car sales have not been great. And even in this quarter, which was good, right, where sales went way up, margins went down. And there is a sense among investors and you've even heard this from the company itself, that this is going to be a bit of an aberration, because what happened is the tax credit, the 7500 bucks, is effectively making electric cars cheaper. It went away as part of the big, beautiful bill that that you know, that Trump passed. So so this is kind of like a one time thing. We have a bunch of people basically moving purchases forward at the same time. Lots of competition from lots of automakers out. Now, we talked about this, really. For years, for almost a decade, like, you know, GM and others are going to come. Well, they're here now. There are a bunch of really great electric cars that cost the same amount of money or in some markets less than a Tesla. You know, Bouzid has cars in Europe that are very, very competitive with Tesla and are cheaper. GM has cars now that are about the same price as the cheapest car and then are competitive. So. So that's a challenge. And then on the other hand, you have Musk's kind of fantastic promises around humanoid robots, around autonomy, and that stuff is hard to value. You basically either value that at zero or you value it at like $220 trillion. And so so it's kind of a gap in the discourse around this company. So, look, obviously, none of us know the answer about how to value that business. But if if increasingly these autos are becoming a commodity and outside of the US, especially with competition, be bhiwadi and show me then it looks like a more insular market for Tesla, at least for autos here in the U.S. If they don't lean into Optimus, if they don't lean into other technology. Yeah, I think well, I think there are two things. So one is optimists. Humanoid robot Elon Musk says, you know, very soon in a matter of years, we're going to have these things in our homes. They're going to be like friends. You're like, not even going to be able to tie. I think you said in the earnings call, you're not going to barely be able to tell it's a robot. Like, if that's true, obviously that's great. The other thing the other thing is, is sort of robo taxis, unsupervised self-driving, which Tesla has yet to do, but it is is trying to do that. There is a question of how you value that because you want Musk has said for years and years and years, you know basically that is worth an unlimited amount of money. Your cars will increase in value. Right. Because of this thing. But you're seeing Chinese companies essentially give this stuff away. So that's why I say, like, we don't really know how valuable this is yet, even though the idea of not having to drive your car in me and we'll take a nap, that obviously sounds great. It's just unclear how much people will pay for that and how much they will be asked to pay for that. Given that a bunch of other automakers are giving away very similar technology. It's also not quietly quite doable. Right. Like like listen, we've talked about Waymo, how much we love it. But I mean, it's still tricky and the infrastructure doesn't necessarily support it everywhere. No, do not take a nap in your Tesla today despite what you see on Twitter. Yeah, I mean, there there are huge question marks here. And I think when you look at Waymo, it's a big success, but it's a success in a very narrow way, like a defined number of markets operating at slow speed. You know, they don't drive on highways yet. You know, there's tons of supervision, There's remote supervision. We've talked about this same thing with Tesla and Waymo has been very deliberate, you know, rolling this out in just a handful of markets, moving very slowly. I think Tesla and I think most people who cover the autonomy space closely believe that there is no way Tesla gets anywhere near the timelines that Elon Musk is talking about. Where, you know, what we kind of expect is that it follows more like the Waymo path now, of course. And if it does that, it's worth a lot less money. Now, of course, Elon Musk is telling a different story where we're one day he's going to just basically flip the switch and you're going to see this deploy everywhere. We had an interesting conversation with Roscoe Brown with that board, though, yesterday on the academic differences between the Read Our Light, our side of things with Waymo and the vision only stuff with Tesla. Where do you fall on that, Max? Is that do you believe that? I mean, Russ Gerber doesn't think it's possible to have vision only self-driving. There are a lot of a lot of experts who I've talked to who are very skeptical of the technical approach, which I think is is a problem. The great thing about LiDAR is it's like an additional safety feature. I also think, again, there are so many reasons to think that the timeline is is going to take much longer than than what we're talking about, that it's almost not worth parsing the technical differences. This is something that is going to take decades to pull off in the way that you want. Musk wants it to pull off relevant When you've got a company that trades with a P of 320 or a forward p e of about 262. Right. Because these are things that aren't going to happen so quickly. Got to run. Love, love, love. Max Chaffin, senior reporter at Bloomberg Businessweek, co-host of the Everybody's Business podcast and author of The Contrarian Peter Thiel in Silicon Valley's Pursuit of Power. Coming up next, how genetics could improve health outcomes for women where R&D lags. Next on Bloomberg Businessweek. 240. On Wall Street, I'm Alexis Christofferson. Stocks are in rally mode, boosted by tech as investors step in to buy after a batch of strong earnings results. The Dow Jones Industrial Average up more than 190 points. We've got the S&P 500 making up yesterday's losses and then some on a gain of about 48. Also near an all time high for the S&P. The NASDAQ composite is up 226 points or 1%. We've also got oil sprinting higher today. WTI crude up 5.6% to the global benchmark. Brent up five and a half percent after the U.S. slapped sanctions on the Kremlin's two largest oil producers in an effort to pressure Russia, Russia to end its war in Ukraine. That surge in oil fueling concerns about the impact on inflation. One day before we get that delayed release of the September Consumer Price index, all of that sending bond yields higher. The ten year yield, 3.99%, the two year yield at 3.48%, and shares of IBM slipping one and a quarter percent after the tech giant reported disappointing growth for a key part of its software division. That offset better than expected third quarter results and a boosted sales outlook. And consumer products giant Unilever posting stronger than expected sales and profits for last quarter with hair and makeup products leading the charge, the maker of Dove and Vaseline also maintaining its annual guidance. Shares of Unilever up now 4/10 of 1% for on demand news 24 hours a day. Subscribe to Bloomberg News now wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Alexis Bristol for us. That's your Bloomberg Business Flash. I got it. Alexis, thank you so much. Why, hey, over the summer, a Bloomberg Opinion piece pointed out that new research shows Americans need greater access to genetic testing and stronger legal protections against genetic discrimination. According to a recent study that was published in the American Journal of Human Genetics. Now the study of DNA samples from the Penn Medicine Biobank found that a quarter of adults under the age of 40 who had been admitted to the Penn medicine ICU carried a mutation that would have been relevant to their treatment. So it's just talking about the importance of understanding your genetics and what it could mean for health and that genetic testing. What becomes available, changes so frequently. I mean, year to year they can identify more and more. Yeah, exactly. And our next guest has a vast body of work when it comes to the field of genetics. Let's get to our weekly Business Week women's health segment, where we focus on key issues and developing technologies impacting the present and future of women's health around the world. And really, in many ways, everybody's health around the world. Joining us right now is Dr. Wendy Chang, chief of pediatrics at Boston Children's Hospital. She is the Mary Ellen Avery, professor of pediatrics at Harvard Medical School, and she joins us from London where it's a little bit later. So thank you so much, Dr. Chang, for joining us. You have spent more than two decades as a clinical and molecular geneticist and have directed many NIH funded research programs. Got to ask, are we at a good time for health care advantage advancements, excuse me? Or are we possibly going backwards? We have amazing opportunities, amazing opportunities, specifically around genetics, both in terms of diagnostics, predicting and being able to tailor health and health prevention and health treatment based on that and new things in terms of therapeutics, especially in the rare disease space. So it couldn't be a more exciting time in terms of the ability to scale this, to use data, to do it more accurately and to get it to more people where they're at. It sounds exciting and the opportunity is so exciting. But we're at a point with the United States where we don't have great outcomes compared to the rest of the world. We lag when it comes to other countries and their health outcomes. Why is that, from your view? In many cases it's due to access. And as we think about this, we're trying to think of ways that we can provide care anywhere. So are there ways to think about how do we get access to patients where they are in ways that can fit in with their lives and get them really news they can use as the way I think about it, when they can use it just in time to be able to do it, ingested, understand it and apply it in ways that really fit in with their life. We have amazing opportunities, but we don't do them equitably for everyone. Well, you know, Dr. Chung, Tim and I spend so much time talking about the K-shaped economy. Right. And that on an economic level, not everybody benefits from the US economy, even in good times. So that obviously carries over to health care. If you could change one thing, what would it be that would make health care more equitable? So if you can imagine this future state, I've been running a study in New York City called Guardian Genomic Uniform Screening against Rare diseases and all newborns for a baby when they get their heel prick right after birth to be able to screen for disorders that are treatable and curable, things like Phenylketonuria. Now, can we think about blowing that up in a good way by being able to do genome sequencing to identify all the treatable conditions so that everyone gets access to this? And for those same children, if they get sick and have symptoms at some point in the future, we interrogate that genomic information to make the diagnosis essentially instantaneously. So if they're having breathing problems, growing problems, problems with development, not hitting their milestones, can you get the diagnosis very, very quickly to start the journey and make sure that diagnostic odyssey doesn't go on for very long? Start the treatment. All right. Logical question. Follow up. Why don't we do that? Is it just too expensive or what? You know, it's funny. I was talking to an individual who is from South Korea or has family back in South Korea and says, you know, every year you can go in and get a body scan, head to toe. Not crazy expensive like it would be here in the United States. And you can get potentially early signs of something that's that's not good. So I'm just wondering when it comes to why don't we do these genetic testing, is it not available? Is it too expensive? So it is being done on a research basis on a very small number of newborns right now. But I'll throw down the gauntlet. I think we can drive down the price of doing being able to do this. And right now let's just say it costs $1,000 per baby to be able to do this. That's probably not something that we can scale up 3.6 million babies born each year. But if we can drive down the cost by 50%, 75%, I do think if you look at the health economics in terms of the return on investment, it easily pays for itself over a ten year period. But what about when it comes to using that data for technology such as gene editing? And we spoke to Jennifer Doudna, the 2020 Nobel laureate, a few months ago at our Bloomberg Technology conference back in San Francisco. She was very optimistic that we will see this happening more and more in humans. Will this become just the standard of care, in your view, for kids who have genetic disorders? So I do think for these single gene conditions, platform technologies such as what Dr. Doudna and others have developed, they're not quite ready for prime time to just dial in any particular genetic edit and fix it. But we are getting towards those platforms to be able to do this. And I do think that over the next decade we're going to make tremendous strides. And I do think from a regulatory point of view, the FDA and other regulatory agencies understand that within rare diseases you need to think about platforms and being able to use information for one rare disease in terms of treatments for others and to understand the safety profile and use that across conditions. And so for the 7000 rare diseases, I don't think we have to solve the problem 7000 times. I think it's going to come to a much simpler number of solutions. Hey, one thing we wanted to ask you about, a recent article in Nature. You were quoted that Martha's spotlight on children's health is welcome and that this could be the decade of the kids. And that would be an amazing thing. How so? Especially when we see an administration secretary of HHS pushing back on things like vaccines and other policies that your research has shown has definitely improved health in the United States. So I think if you think about the technology that I talked about with newborn screening, it can be applied to any number of things for children. So that, again, if you know where the pain points are, if you know what the susceptibilities, you can think about everything from how a child can learn better if they're going to have certain challenges in terms of understanding, learning behavior or how to be able to tailor things to them if they're going to have problems in terms of a tendency towards type one diabetes, asthma, even cancer in the future, how do you tailor their surveillance, the particular things we monitor or how frequently we monitor? So it's not a one size fits all for everyone. You really get more out of the energy and the money you're putting into it because it's tailored for the person. And I do think both in terms of being able to have biomarkers, looking at disease progression and genomics to guide you, we can do much better because we have enough data now to be able to understand those patterns and profiles. We've run out of time, but hopefully come back real soon because I know emerging technologies, whether it's artificial intelligence or quantum computing, which all of a sudden this week we're talking a lot about are going to be very important metrics when it comes to disease predictability. So please, please come back really soon. Dr. Wendy Chang, chief of pediatrics at Boston Children's Hospital. She is the Mary Ellen Avery, professor of pediatrics at Harvard Medical School, and she's joining us from London on this Thursday. Well, on this Thursday, stocks in the green, 7/10 of 1% to the upside on the S&P 500 right now. NASDAQ composite up a full percentage point. The Dow up to the tune of 200 of points. That's just about 4/10 of 1%. Got most names in the S&P 500, more than 300 to the upside. Hey, when we come back, we've got a check on the stocks on the move right here on Bloomberg Businessweek Daily. You're listening to Bloomberg Businessweek Daily with Carol Massar and Tim Stone event on Bloomberg Radio and Television. All right, everybody, we're coming up on our last hour of trading Carol Massar Tim Standard back live here at Bloomberg headquarters. We're bumping around here our best levels of the session. So we're up about 7/10 of a percent on the S&P 500. Dow up just about 4/10 of one percentage point. NASDAQ 100 outperformance there it is, up about 9/10 of a percent. This as we get ready for a batch of earnings to drop after the closing bell today. It's pretty broad based energy Is the leader today in the green to the tune of 1.77% in terms of industry groups, the only industry group in the red, Carol, consumer staples down 4/10 of 1%. Yeah, we're looking at oil spiking today. We kicked off the show talking about that. Right now you're looking at WTI crude futures up about 5.4%, 6166 a barrel. So we've seen a move to the upside. I'm Jim Standard EQ along with Carol Massar. Let's take a look at some stocks on the move today. With us is Bloomberg News cross asset reporter Denita Strycova and Teresa. It's smack dab in the middle of earnings season, so we got some earnings stories. Yeah. Let's start with one of the big winners, American Airlines. It was up as much as 8%. Now the stock is up 6.4%. The thinker, of course, is AOL, and it's coming off pretty good. Earnings. Adjusted earnings per share were well above what the street was expected. The street expected to just it was about $0.17. And once we got the expected $0.27 and we got $0.17, so we're seeing big relief there. The stock is actually down 31% before the earnings reports. It comes after a pretty strong quarter for all airlines. We're not talking only about American Airlines. We're seeing strong trends in corporate us in premium leisure demand. What people are saying is that premium cabin demand has been very strong. But some analysts are worried that we may be seeing peaks there a big there. So that's one concern and that's one reason investors have been potentially worried. But today, very strong reaction. American is the last of the big four airlines to report quarterly numbers. We've had really strong, really strong earnings season for them. And what we're seeing from the airline is that it now sees a profit this year. It was previously forecasting a loss. So big shift there. Yeah, exactly. So return to profitability, right, in the fourth quarter. So that is a big deal. Hey, one that has certainly been on our radar over the last week. Ticker is B, Y and we're talking about Beyond Meat. I mean, it's been on a tear until kind of as of late, maybe as of today. Yeah, For the most part, this is not really a fundamental story, isn't earnings, but it's about an increase. And we really care about the name Chris. It's beyond meat. The thicker is b, Y and the shares yesterday was up as much as 112% and then they ended up lower. Today they were down as much as 23% and they're still down double digits. And it's been a very volatile session. It's one of those new favorite names. There was one investor, Dimitri, Shimon King, who posted on social media, and then there was a whole retail craze. But we've seen so much volatility with those momentum names like this boom started on Friday. It's already fading like the meme stock we've seen this year. It's a little bit different, like less long lasting then some of the chance seen before. I guess retail traders are excited about many things like zero day options and so many others, but the stock is still down about 20% this year. It's obviously very far from the peak we saw during the pandemic. It received a massive boost. People were ditching me for those healthier alternative. It was such a craze like it was impossible to find in restaurants. But now the investors are cooling down and even meme traders are cooling down. I mean, I'm just looking at the function on the Bloomberg I mean, declining revenue growth, you know, negative free cash flow. Yeah, I, I don't know. The fundamentals are not there. Yeah that's it And it's a pretty UN telecom also hearing from some telecoms companies of late T-Mobile what's going on with T-Mobile today. Yeah T-Mobile had a great earnings report but investors weren't so excited they expected better than expected subscriber growth. But investor focus on increasing competition, of course, this is the number to operate. There is a T, Christy and you as the stock is down about 3% now. And the fierce battle is, of course, with AT&T and Verizon. They've been doing all those different deals to kind of dangle promotions to learn new customers. Of course, there's just been a new iPhone and that has kind of helped. According to T-Mobile, it has added 1 million new mobile phone subscribers in the three months at the end of September. So pretty strong. That said, their churn rate has risen a little bit. AT&T said a similar thing. So perhaps people are moving fast between different carriers and T-Mobile's. Average revenue per user is actually lower than what the street expected. So perhaps that explains some of the. His appointment here. But yeah, interesting space to watch. T-Mobile was actually flat here today and obviously a lot of pressure today after our earnings report that the analysts were pretty optimistic about. Yeah, that's kind of interesting, right? I mean, I feel like we've seen a lot of earnings reports coming in fairly decent, but this one maybe some question. But I also feel like with this space, what's interesting is that it was only 1 million customers, not even one quarter. You know, you think of like the big three wireless providers, AT&T, T-Mobile and Verizon. But then you have all these like smaller offshoots that end up just essentially leasing capacity or leasing spectrum from exactly the big ones. So you're paying them kind of no matter what. I have so many of my friends actually using those. It's fascinating. I wonder. Exactly. Exactly. I got to tell you, I feel like you went through the list. It's like been our carriers, I feel like over the last couple of years because we've been bouncing around and it's just never really happy, not loyal. Well, hmm. All right. Bloomberg news cross has that reporter denise us to cover. Joining us, check out our stock movers podcast. Five minute episodes of the biggest winners and losers in the stock market. Find it on apple, spotify or anywhere you get your podcasts. Hey, we got a great program coming up on Bloomberg Businessweek Daily. If you continuing with us, what is up with the US government and quantum companies? Also, the, quote, mind boggling fraud alleged by the FBI? Oh, my gosh. It's one of the most read. Stick around.