"Platinum is Exploding!" Bob Moriarty’s Warning for Gold & Silver Investors
Summary
Precious Metals: The guest argues that buying what's cheap favors precious metals today, with a particular emphasis on platinum and silver due to their relative value and small market size.
Platinum: Long-term bullish case built on tiny market dynamics and potential capital inflows, suggesting substantial upside as even small reallocations can move price materially.
Silver: Despite all-time highs, sentiment remains muted (DSI ~75) and PSLV trades at a discount, implying further upside; historical PSLV discount/premium data supports contrarian entries.
Junior Miners: The junior resource market (<$100M caps ~$14B total) is described as a “pencil-lead hose,” poised for explosive gains when capital rotates from larger markets.
Company Highlights: Apollo Silver (APO) is praised for Calico and the Cinco de Mayo project in Mexico; West Point Gold (WPG) is highlighted for robust drill results and multi-asset potential.
Antimony Angle: Military Metals’ antimony focus is notable given supply security, with the metal’s critical role in hardening lead for batteries and changing China-related supply dynamics.
Macro Drivers: A possible unwind of the Japanese Carry Trade (~$12T) and crypto market volatility could redirect capital into gold, silver, platinum, and junior miners, lifting prices and valuations.
Risk and Sentiment: The DSI suggests near-term corrections are possible for platinum/palladium, but the broader direction remains higher; disciplined sentiment tracking is encouraged.
Transcript
Welcome to Proven and Probable. I'm your host Maurice Jackson and joining us for a conversation is the founder of 321 Gold and 321 Energy.com, the legendary Bob Morardi. Mr. Morardi, welcome to the show. >> Well, it's it's a pleasure to be back and I I want to say I hope all of your listeners are old. Well, each time I speak with you, I am getting older and older and older. Sir, off to >> now. You didn't ask me why I want them to get older. >> All right. And why is that, sir? >> Okay. When did we talk about rodeium? >> We discussed rodeium 2017. >> Yeah, you you've got a very good memory. And I pointed out that in 2008, February or March of 2008, Rodeium touched $10,000. And then from 2008 until 2015, Rodeium declined. A and now we're going to test your memory. How low did Roodium go? It went from 10,000 down to what? It went down to roughly I think that the bottom was in the 600s. Am I correct? >> You're very very very good. The best number that I can come up with at 625 in August of 2016. Now, my thesis, my theory at the time was if you got something of real value that was worth $10,000 an ounce in 2008, then 8 years later, if you could buy it at $625, that's a good deal. And we agreed that rodeium was cheap relative to gold, relative to silver, and even relative to palladium. And if you were going to invest in a precious metal, that's the metal that you want to be in. So, we'll we'll continue our quiz. What did roodium do? >> It exploded unlike any other precious metal up to what 29,500. >> Very, very good. And when did it do that? >> 2021. >> Very very good. You've done your homework. Actually, I think I sent this to you. Um, so in in five or six years, uh, it it just exploded higher and that's almost a 50fold return. You need to do that once in your life. Now, gold went up, silver went up, platinum went up, rodium went up, rodeium went up the most, but uh uh shall we explain to your audience why it went up? >> That would be paramount, I believe, because we all want to learn and get some insights on what you see. >> Okay. Think of a hose and you're putting water through the hose and you've got a great big hose for gold because it's a big liquid market and you got a little tiny hose for silver and you got a tiny hole for platinum and then you got this infantessimal pencilsiz hole for roodium. But you're going to force the same amount of investment capital through each of the hoses. Well, gold's going to go up and silver is going to go up more and platinum's going to go up even more, but the one that's going to go up the most is roodium. And and here's what I want people to understand. In my books, I try to keep things simple. We talked about rodeium being the metal to buy for one reason and that was it was cheap. There was no other reason to buy. I don't give a damn what it's used for. I don't care what interest rates are. I don't care what the Fed's doing. I don't care who the president is. I don't care who we're at war with this week because that changes every week. I mean, you know, weeks change, wars change. But the reason rodeium went up, it was such a tiny market that any investment whatsoever would blast the price higher. So since uh 2021, what has rodeium done? >> It's come down, but it's it's remained actually relatively strong to my surprise. I think it's currently trading in the 8,000s >> around 6 7 8,000 something like that. Now looking at the price of rodium, looking at the price of platinum, looking at the price silver and gold, is it possible to say now that roodium is either cheap or it's expensive? >> You can and I would say the same. >> No, you can't. No, >> I was going to argue you could compare to uh just the ratio of one another, but you're you have a different view. Well, the the fact is in relative terms, it it's neither cheap nor expensive. It was expensive at 10,000 in 2008. It was expensive at 29,500 uh in 2021. It was cheap at 625 in August of of 2016, but it's not particularly cheap now, and it's not particularly expensive. What we want to do as investors is pick out what it's cheap and what it's expensive. And and here's the key element. And this is why I hope all your readers are old. If they will remember the conversations that we had back then, it was as simple as buying stuff because it was cheap and selling it when it was expensive. But now we've thrown in the parameter of why did rodeium go up so much and that that's an important issue that we never talked about before. So let's talk about the metals today. What's cheap? Platinum. Okay. Gold has has surpassed an all-time high. Silver has surpassed an all-time high. Rodeium has, but it's backed off. And uh do you happen to remember off the top of your head what the top in platinum was? 2200 2,300. Yeah, back there somewhere between 22 20250 something like that. Uh so at 1950 or 2000, platinum is still cheap relative to gold and silver and roodium. But considering the issue of the size of the market and considering what happened to rodeium, what kind of potential do we think we have for platinum? Well, could it surpass the all-time high? Absolutely. Could it blow past the all-time high? Absolutely. So, you know, could you have 2500 3,000 $4,000 gold? Because historically and platinum was discovered as a individual element around 1720 in Colombia by I I think a French um chemist. Mhm. >> So platinum's been around for a long time and most of the time platinum has had a premium to gold. So platinum at 5,000 could be cheap, okay, in relative terms. U it's not cheap like it was, but it's still cheap relative to gold, relative silver. And because it's such a tiny market, uh any money flowing into it could explode the price higher. So the the trick question of the day is what's the total value of cryptocurrencies today? >> I'm going to say it what it should be or what it is. >> What it is, >> I don't know the number, but it's in the trillions, I'm assuming. I don't follow cryptos. >> Yes. over 3 trillion. And the highest it's ever been, and this is all 17,000 cryptocurrencies, the highest it's ever been, was just over $4 trillion. And compared to the size of the gold market, compared to the size of the silver market, platinum, roodium, that that's a really big number. And it in the last 6 weeks it's dropped $1 trillion. And that is actually a greater financial crash that than the uh housing bubble back in 2008. So you had mentioned we were going to talk about the carry trade. >> Yes. How does the carry trade actually factor into this entire discussion? >> The size. expand on that for us because a lot of us may have un familiar understanding of course with cryptocurrencies are precious metals and resource stocks but behind the scenes there's this elephant and you brought this elephant to my attention it's the carry trade so please expand on that for us well it's not necessarily because size because carry trade's always been big it's because the direction of the movement now the Japanese kept um the value of the end down and interest rates either zero or negative for about 20 or 30 years. Okay. So what people would do is they would borrow money in yen, they would convert it to dollars or they would convert it to euros and they would buy treasury bonds or something like that. So if you were getting 2% interest on T-notes or T- bonds or T bills and it was costing you zero in interest on the yen, okay, you could make 2% on a riskfree investment. And the problem is it's not necessarily risk-free. It's only riskfree as long as Japanese interest rates stay low. Well, lately, Japanese interest rates have exploded higher, and the Japanese literally had the choice. They could do one of two things. They could save the world's economy, or they could save the yen. And their choice was to save the yen. >> Imagine that. >> So, they're letting the carry trade unwind. interest rates are exploding higher and now people are borrowing money at 4% or are are on the hook for interest at 4% but they're only collecting 3%. So they're unwinding their position. Now where this is important is not the fact of the carry trait. Where it's important is the size of the carry. If the cryptocurrency markets is 4 trillion, and that's a pretty big number, when you get into the Japanese carry trade, the best number I've seen is 12 trillion. And what they unwind these real estate loans, the CRE, uh, Oracle, uh, Nvidia, T bills, T- bonds, when they invite unwind these $12 trillion in investments over 6 months to a year, you're going to see interest rates in the West go through the roof as T- bonds get sold off. Japan of course is the biggest owner of T-bonds and T-notes in the world. So when they start selling those and repatriating the money to Japan, it's going to make a major shift in currencies and it's going to dramatically change uh the financial market. And the point here is when you got this teeny tiny market like roodium or like platinum, all it would take is a one or 2% shift. When when people unwind the money they've invested in the carry trade, they're still going to be sitting on some profits. If they take one or two% of that and move it into platinum, you could see 4,000, $5,000, $6,000, $10,000 platinum. I am not predicting that. I'm not one of these guys who's smart enough to predict price. I can predict direction, but I cannot predict price. The carry trade is going to unwind. That's $12 trillion. That's going to loosen a lot of capital. much of it is going to flow back to Japan, but a a fair bit of it could flow into gold, silver, platinum, and palladium. And since pad or platinum is the cheapest of the metals, uh that's the one that I think that it will go into. >> And that's very important. And I appreciate the integrity of you're not making a price prediction, but I got to tell you what, your calls, they're on they're on they're on the ball. That's the only way I can say it, sir. You look at all the names that are out there, you know. Well, if I let let me just give you your flowers here. I look at all the names that are out there that get interviewed and I see the thumbnail images and anyone watching, they see them as well. And there's still these uh advocates talking about gold is going to crush it and go to 5,000, 10,000. I'm like, well, wait a minute. There's a gentleman named Bob Morardi. He called Rodeium and it went to 29,500 and there's no recognition for a rodeium and and b of course your call. So we're honored to have you on here and and just to to you know again put another feather in your cap here. We interviewed in May platinum was 1100. If I'm not mistaken there wasn't really a single interview out there regarding platinum a month later. >> Oh yeah. There was one >> Yeah. Yours ours credit. >> I am I am I am so what I'm sharing is so there's one interview out there. It's yours. It's ours. Platinum's 1100. Right. It it jumped up to I believe 16 15 somewhere in there. 14. It doesn't matter. The price moved higher faster than the other metals. And yesterday it almost reached 2,000. I have to give credit to where credit is due. So again, you didn't make a price prediction, but you informed us of where to be and why we should be there. And for that, we're thankful. Well, you just raised a really good point. Have I ever said to you that you don't want to live in a world of $10,000 gold? >> Yes, sir. And I think it's important for us to share why that is. >> Well, that's a really good point. There is another guy who is a big guy in the Canadian junior resource field named Frank Gustra. And when Brix hit, he bailed out. He said, "Okay, the the Junior Research Market is going to be dead for years." And he started Lionscape Films, which happened to be a really good film studio. And he did well with it. He came back into the resource space at exactly the same time I did. And for exactly the same reason. Okay. Junior stocks had been so beaten up. I I can name you a stock in Canada that was in production. It was making a profit. When gold was $253 an ounce, the company was making a profit and you could buy a dollar of their cash for 75. They were selling at a discount yet they were still making money at the very bottom of the market. Frank Schustra did an interview recently with Daniel Camoran and he he was talking about uh gold at $5,000 or $10,000 an ounce and he said the same thing. You don't want to live in a world of $10,000 gold. And the reason for it is if you think that $10,000 gold is reasonable, you are also saying that $40 a gallon gasoline is reasonable because there is a ratio and a relationship between the price of gold and the price of gasoline. Okay? Yes, there's all kinds of good reasons to buy gold, but the fact is gold goes to 4500 or 5,000 or 10,000, you're going to see the price of energy go higher as well. So, you've got some really giant elephants. You open your refrigerator door and you got a bowl of jello sitting in it and you got a 2,000 lb elephant standing at it. Okay, that would be the Japanese carry trade. $4500 gold. That's a $600B gorilla sitting in your jello. Okay, there are things that are going on now that I never even anticipate it happening. I can tell you when gold's cheap. I can tell you when silver is cheap. I can tell you when rodeium's cheap. I cannot predict price. Uh there have been two times in 2008 at the top in the medals and in 2015 at the top in the medals somebody had the brag idea of going to all the experts in the gold space and asking them for their prediction. And the funny thing said it's in it's in one of my financial books. There were like 115 people that they asked, okay, what's goal going to be 2 years from now? Now, of the 115 people who were asked, do you have any idea of how many actually gave them a response? >> I'm sure maybe 50% gave a response, but I doubt that any of them were accurate. >> Well, first of all, none of them were accurate. That's absolutely correct. But if there were 115 people who were asked for a prediction, 114 people made predictions and 114 people were wrong. Now what I'll say is that I'm not smart enough to predict price but I am smart enough to understand that I'm not smart enough to predict price. So there was one person who was not wrong and that of course was me. [laughter] What a surprise. >> Yeah, what a shock. I I'm shocked. So, uh, we did talk about junior mining stocks. >> Yes. And I wanted to segue into that actually right now when you look at junior mining stocks and and it with the inclusion here of of base metals, you know, copper is soaring as well. When you're looking at the natural resource base, junior mining companies, what has your attention right now and why? >> Okay. uh from the conversation we've had so far today, do you understand why I think knowing the numbers it's important? Uh 4 trillion in cryptocurrencies, that's a really big number compared to the GFC in 2008, 12 trillion in the Japanese carry trade. That's a really big number, even bigger than the cryptocurrencies. So I wanted to know what the size of the junior resource market is. So I I asked uh Tavi at Crescat what the size of junior market was. That's really interesting. I sent the numbers to you. Uh the entire precious metals market value of companies below $1 billion was 78 billion in total. Okay. and 78 billion chump chain compared to uh cryptocurrencies and even bigger chump chains uh compared to the Japanese carry trade. And I got back to him, I said, "No, I'm not interested in billion dollar companies." Uh how about smaller companies? And he came back and said, "Okay, the the junior resource companies worth less than $500 million. There's 51 billion total." That's getting even smaller >> now. 51 billion compared to 4 trillion is a tiny figure compared to 12 trillion is a a pencil net. And I said, "Nah, no, I'm not interested in the $500 million companies. The below 100 million market cap." And he came back and said 14 billion. Now 14 billion as a percentage of the total investment capital in the entire world is not even a rounding error. Okay, it's like a pencil lead located on the moon. It's so small. But what does that mean in terms of psychology? Now, uh, did I ever mention to you what the DSI got on silver in 2011 when I predicted the top and silver? >> I think it coincided with your thesis that it was uh, >> well, it it absolutely did. U in January of 1980, the DFI got to 94 on silver. January 21st, 1980 was the absolute top in silver. Uh in 2011, I think it was April 25th of 2011. The DSI on silver got to 96. People were more optimistic on silver in 2011 than they were in u 1980. Even though the value of silver or $50 1980 was worth a lot more than $50 in 2011. However, people were more optimistic. Uh there was one guru who who called me up and said, "Look, I've written the greatest paper ever written about silver. 500 million people have read the thing. They think it's the most wonderful article ever. you should take every penny you got, buy silver because it's going to the moon. This is when the DSI and silver was in the mid90. And I said, well, gee, I'd really love to do that, but silver is the most volatile of the metals and if you will write an article about how dangerous it is to invest in silver at the top, I'll publish that. and and he he basically said, "Well, yeah, but you're a idiot." Which which could well be true. Uh so I I I never published him. And he literally made fun of me and went silver topped and I called the top in April 25th. Uh I had literally hundreds of people write me and tell me how stupid I was for saying silver topping. And I didn't feel bad. Okay. The reason I said it was topping is because everybody was so optimistic about the price of silver. They couldn't possibly be right. The mob is always wrong. So my response to each of them was exactly the same. And I said, "Look, it do me a favor. You don't know if you're right. I don't know if I'm right. write me in a month and remind me that either I'm a blithering idiot or I'm a genius. Now, of the 200 people who told me that I was a blithering idiot on April 25th, how many of them wrote me a month later? >> Oh, I'm sure all of them did not have an ego. So, they probably 100% No, I don't believe you received one response that said you Yeah. >> Zero. Zero. Nobody had the guts to say, "Oh, by the way, you know, you're not as dumb as I thought you were or dumb as you look." So then what does that have to do with the junior market? The the junior market of companies under $und00 million is $14 billion. Now, what did we learn by recommending Rodeium at 600 bucks? it went to 29,000 because it was such a tiny market. When the investment market changes and people get optimistic about uh junior resource stocks, what's going to happen to that market? It's going to explode higher. uh the the funny thing is I I mean you you take any percentage of the Japanese carry trade or any percentage of the crypto market uh any percentage of Nvidia if it moved into the junior resource market and it's going to move into the junior resource market at some point it's going to explode and you're going to see stocks go from a nickel to five bucks and Nobody's going to want to believe this right now. It is such a tiny hose that when you pour money into it, it's going to be the biggest bubble anybody has ever seen in world history. And it's going to happen. Now then, let's talk about the DSI on platinum. >> I was going to ask you, I was just waiting. What What can you share with us? >> And on silver. >> My my pen is ready. Would you like to guess the DSI on platinum? >> You're putting me on the spot. You don't have to. >> Yeah. No, I You're going to put me on the spot. I'm going to say it's in the 70s. Let's see if I >> 88. >> I was Okay. All right. Not bad. >> Okay. The DSI, the daily sentiment indicator is 88 on platinum and it's 88 on palladium. Both of which have have shot higher. And that indicates we're not at the top. and it indicates that there's a good chance that we could have a correction in those. But the real interesting thing, and I'm going to give you two sentiment indicators, and I am going to put you on the spot, and of course, half your listeners hate me for saying this. I'm going to put you on the spot, and I'm going to give you two sentiment indicators on silver at the highest price in history. And I want you to tell me what it's going to be. What's the DSI in silver yesterday? >> This has to be in the low 90s. Low to mid 90s. >> How about How about 75? >> Oh, I was way off. Interesting. At an alltime high. >> What does that tell you about sentiment on silver? >> And it still has a ways to go. >> It not only has a ways to go at the very highest price it's ever been in history, people are not as optimistic as they were a month ago when silver was 10 bucks cheaper. Now, if that's true and if I am reading the numbers correctly, there would be another sentiment indicator that would either confirm or deny the accuracy of the DSI. I'm pretty sure I've talked about this before. The the PSLV is the spat silver ETF. in uh April of 2011, it allowed me to call top because the DSI, not I'm sorry, not the DSI, the premium on silver, April 25th of of 2011 was 26%. So with silver at about 50 bucks, people were actually paying $63 an ounce for PSLV. That's how optimistic they were. So, let's try to figure out what the the discount or the premium on silver today is and whether it what it tells us about what's going to happen to the market. If it was 26 at the high in April of 2011, what is it now >> on the PSLV? The price. >> Yeah. Not not the price, the discount or the premium. It had a 26% premium at the top in 2011. So at the highest price silver it's ever been yesterday. What is the premium or the discount? And what does that tell us is going to happen to silver? >> Give me the answer. Bobus 4%. >> Really? I was not expecting that. >> I I'll go you one better. I have invested in a silver ETF one time in my life. I I I'm not smart enough to make money at that. I'm not smart enough to make money in cryptocurrencies, but one time in my life, I invested in in PSLV. >> And how were the results? >> I made a lot of money. Okay. And do you remember the conversations we had in late 2019 into uh early 2020? And I I don't really expect you to remember them, but you might. >> Give me a a refresher, a reminder here if you will. >> Okay. In early 2019, I was predicting a market crash by October. >> Yes. >> Lots of people said Morardi and idiot. The market didn't crash. What they don't understand is that it actually did crash and nobody noticed. It's September of 2019. We had a repo crash. identical to what happened a month ago. Okay. All of a sudden, there was a liquidity problem and the Fed started pumping money into the system, but it took from September of 2019 to March of 2020. And everybody talks about the COVID crash, but that's Uh the market did not go down because of COVID. The market went down because it was a liquidity crisis. and everybody was selling everything. So, uh, in January and in February and in every case, every article I have ever written, it's still on my website. And I would highly encourage your viewers to to go see this in January and in February. I was saying, "Hey, wait a minute. This crash, it's not over. It just got started." And sure enough, in March of 2020, silver crashed to below $12 an ounce. Now, you you buy silver. If you thought $12 an ounce was a really good deal and and you had say $10,000 spare capital, how could you buy silver 12 bucks an ounce? >> You virtually couldn't. No one would. >> You couldn't. Okay. Because if you walked into a coin store, he could have silver stacked to the rafters, okay? And said, "I, you know, give me $10,000 worth of silver." He'd say, "Sorry." Because he paid 16 bucks an ounce, 17 bucks an ounce or 18 bucks an ounce, and he not about to sell it cheaper than what he paid for it. So, the nominal price of silver was 12 bucks an ounce. Okay? But if you didn't have to have physical silver, what else could you invest in? >> Resource stocks or PLV? >> No, there's no PSLV. Okay, it's traded like stock. Okay, and here's where it gets beautiful. Here's why. I I invested one time at PSLV. The discount on PSLV got to 11%. So, if you bought PSLV, you were not paying 12 bucks an ounce. You were paying under $11 an ounce for silver. And that's something people could still do. And the data is on Sprat's website. This is not information that that's confidential that people whisper to me. Uh this is information available to anybody. The discount on PSLV got to 11%. So you not only could buy silver at a nominal cost of $12, you could buy PSLB under $11. So I bought silver under $11 and between March of 2020 in August of 2020, uh the silver went to 30 bucks an ounce. >> Ah, and you didn't call me that day. I recall that. You didn't uh why didn't you call me let me know to do >> Well, I was sitting there waiting for you to call me. [laughter] Well, you know, uh, switching gears here slightly. We're talking about resource stocks and we're talking about silver, right? Let's talk about some, uh, resource stocks that have your attention. Beginning with Apollo Silver, which hosts two of the, uh, actually hosts the second largest, let me correct myself here, the second largest silver deposit in the United States at 125 million ounces at the Calico project located in the mining friendly San Bernardino County. What can you share with us about Apollo Silver that has your attention? >> No big deal. [laughter] That's not the biggie. You need to talk about the Biggie. >> The Biggie, in our opinion, I believe is going to be the Cinco de Mayo, which is their second asset located in Mexico. >> I've been there. >> What excites you about the Cinco deio? Because this it it once was the darling, if you will, 15 10 years ago, and people lost sight of it. and uh if you could share the background on the Cinco de Mayo Force. >> Uh Mag Silver owned a Peter McGaw and I took a three or 4 day tour of uh northern Mexico and I went see that god 20 years ago probably at and Peter McGaw is the expert on Mexico period. Okay. He he has contributed more to the Mexican economy uh by understanding uh geology and understanding politics and understanding and there have been political issues with stupid uh Mexican governments. I I mean putting the word stupid in government the same sentence seems like it's redundant. U I I'm an equal opportunity opportunity or uh I mean the equal opportunity of anarchist to despise all governments equally but uh Apollo is waiting for permission to move forward on CO deio and that is a big ass deposit. They're going to get it because at $66 an ounce, even the Mexican government wakes up said, you know, if we actually produce something in our country and we taxed it, we could make money. And they're going to Apollo has great management. They're sitting on two of a couple of the best silver projects in the world. And the Southern California project is interesting, but the Mexican project it's is company making. And I I believe it will go into production and Mexico make a lot of money and Apollo will make a lot of money and investors in Paulo will make a lot of money. >> Yeah, it's a in a value proposition that has my attention. And I think if you know a lot of uh individuals in this space they claim to be silver stackers but I always share you know at the infasy level silver stackers just have the physical bullion but I think if you want to take it to the next notch you need to also identify some good junior mining companies and mining companies in silver to go with that portfolio. And I can't think of a better one right now that can complement one silver stacking portfolio than Apollo Silver. And by the way, Apollo Silver is a uh sponsor for both 321 Gold and Proven Improbable, and it trades on the TSXV symbol APO, leaving Mexico. >> Well, let's let's hang on, sir. Let's let's talk for just a minute. You're not talking about 10 bagger potential. Go back to the analogy of rodeium, okay? When you try to fit that volume of money through a tube that is the size of a pencil lead and that's what the junior resource market is right now. It is going to be explosive like it's never happened before in history and exactly the same way roodium was. It is such a tiny market that any move of capital into it, it is going to explode the real stocks far higher than anybody can imagine. I I mean the one thing I'll say and I'm interested in what you think about this. They the price of the silver stocks do not reflect $66 an ounce silver. Period. >> No, they don't. Which is uh interesting. I was actually going to ask you about that. [laughter] >> Why? Who's ask who's interviewing who here? >> Well, I'm interviewing you and I think people want to hear from >> No, no, no, no, no, no. You got it wrong. [laughter] >> That is a very uh interesting question because I think a lot of I've gotten a lot of inquiries about that. There seems to be a disconnect between the metal price and the actual uh silver stocks. Why is that? >> Okay, stop. Stop it right there. I I just proved it to you. With the highest price of silver in history, the PSLB is selling at a 4% discount. And frankly, 4% is a lot. Okay, in relative terms, the the chart is on their website and you can look it up. 4% is very negative number on sentiment. And when you look at the DSI, we got the highest price in history on silver and a DSI of 75% at 75% is, you know, on Nobody gives a damn about silver. I mean, why would they care about silver that's gone up 108% in one year? >> That's incredible. But it also pre presents the opportunities that you identify, the ones that are known as contrarian investments. And this is the opportunity I believe right here, right now. I couldn't think of a better one. >> Well, there's a number of them. I I I do want everybody to understand regardless who's advertising on your website, regardless who's advertising on my website, there are going to be penny stocks. They're going to end up being multiple dollar stocks. There is an opportunity of a lifetime literally to make your fortune. Now, we we should at least mention a Gilbert for just a minute. He has said he sees a correction coming, and I happen to agree with that. But you're going to see when the correction comes if you will follow the DSI, okay? And in one trade you can more than make up for the total cost of the DSI. The PSLV will give you very valid information. PSLV is saying that silver is cheap. The DSI is saying that platinum and palladium are relatively expensive. But the DSI say silver is absurdly cheap. And that's an indication. Now, people like to throw numbers out, but if you consider uh silver at a ratio of about 30 to1 to gold, if you went 30 to1 with gold at $4500, you got $150 silver. Is that possible? Absolutely. >> Am I predicting it? Absolutely not. I'm not that smart, but it is certainly possible. and you could be seeing $10 a day moves. The one thing I'll say about silver is there was no metal that is as emotional both on the way up and on the way down. If you go back to 1974 to 1975, gold went from I think 185 bucks to 105 bucks in a year. Okay. So from from 1970 when gold was 35 bucks to 1980 when gold got up to 850 uh you had this incredible advance but you had almost a 50% decline from 74 to 75 you are going to have that in the precious metals markets the DSI will predict it Gelbert is absol Absolutely correct. There will be a correction. If you want to know when it's going to happen, it's going to happen when the DSI hits 92, 93, 94. And and if correct, have silver hit the highest it's ever going to be? No. Has gold hit the highest it's ever been? No. All of those is going to go higher. But the amazing thing is right now the cheapest thing in the entire universe is the junior resource market. >> You said a lot there, but you've also referenced the DSI. I don't think we've actually shared what it actually represents. That's the daily sentiment index, correct? >> Yeah, it's a daily sentiment index and it refers to the percentage of people who are either optimistic or pessimistic. If the DSI is 100, it means 100% of people are optimistic and they are buyers. If it's zero, 100% of the people are pessimistic and they are sellers. The market is always correct and the people are I I'm getting jerked around by my dog. Hey, excuse me. Excuse me. Go play. I I have a four-year-old Australian bore collie and he thinks the greatest thing in the world is for dad to play with him. I mean, see, come here. Come here. >> Yeah, I get the same. I have I have a cat doing a figure eight between my legs constantly when I'm interviewing you. [laughter] If you can adjust your camera there. There we go. Got you down. All right. So, back to the DSI. And by the way, that is uh by Jake Bernstein, correct? >> Yes. And he happens to be the nicest guy in the world. That is the single most valuable sentiment indicator that I have ever seen. It will mark accurately both tops and bottoms. And if you go to Jake, we have a special arrangement. If you go to Jake and you whine to him and you tell him, "I'm poor. I have no money, but Bob has said that if I whine long enough and loud enough, you'll give me a break." He'll do it. I tell you what, I'll leave a link for uh the DSI to contact uh Mr. Bernstein for anyone interested. And I I encourage you to contact him. I've had the pleasure of interviewing him. He is quite a nice nice gentleman. He he >> Yeah. Well, leaving Mexico, let's visit West Point Gold, which has four promising gold projects throughout the prolific Walker Lane in Nevada and extending into Arizona. introduces to their flagship project, the gold chain, located in the Oakatman district of Arizona. >> Are you a mind readader? >> Telepathy has been one of my gifts. No, sir, I'm joking. >> I think it is one of your gifts. Uh, guess who's right in the midst of writing an article about them right now? >> Would it be Bob Morardi of 321? >> Uh, that it it would be Bob Morardi 321 Gold. Here's what's interesting. Uh they they came to me and they talked to me about what they were doing and I took a look the price and talked to management and they started advertising and they came out with Here's the problem that I had. You don't run into this all that often. They had so many different projects that were such high quality. It was really hard for me to measure what they had. Now, let me read some numbers to you. Uh, yesterday the 17th, they released assay results of 24.4 m of 5.92 g gold and 8.3 g uh 16 m of 8.3 g from 158 m. If you want to know what a home run hole is with gold, you want to look at gram meters. Multiply the grams by the meters and that will tell you. Anything over 100 is a home run. And when you get into 200, 300, 400, those are literally company making holes. So if you take a whole 24 m of essentially 6 g gold, you've got something like 140 g meters. And if you take 16.8 8 m of 8 g gold. Uh again, you got uh right at 100 gram meters. The the last uh company that I saw that had these kind of numbers was Bear Creek. Do you remember what happened to them? >> They only shot up from uh a couple of cents to 28 bucks. >> Exactly. It got bought out. Okay. These numbers are the same kind of thing. These numbers are so high that if the price of gold was cut in half tomorrow, which could happen, it would still be economic. Okay, that's a big deal. Now, that's from the the gold chain project. And they've increased I haven't finished my piece. I wish you we' done the interview after I finished my piece. I wouldn't look so stupid. Uh I I think their increase in the drill program at Gold Chain from 10,000 m to 15,000 m and because they got so many warrants at a cheap price, they just raised $3 million in cash. So they're well financed, got plenty of money to drill, good good solid management. And and the crazy thing is and what I had a problem with with them was they had all these other projects including one JV with like the Kin Ross that Ken Ross is financing the entire thing to earn 80% of it. So they there won't be assay results from that and it's relatively meaningless to the total value. But right now, I think they've got about hundred or $105 million market cap and they absolutely have uh great bear potential. >> They certainly do. And by the way, is that an open pit or underground on the gold chain? >> Well, absolutely underground. Uh the [laughter] Okay, here here's the deal. I I should have said this. the 24 m of 5.92 g was 120 m down. So it would either be the world's biggest hole or it would be outdograph. I'll answer that. And by the way, you did reference Ken Ross saying they do have a relationship there with West Point Gold on the Jefferson Canyon which uh I think you you're correct on there. There's a earning 80% and it could get to I think a total of 10 million if I'm not mistaken. My numbers might be slightly off on that, but uh yeah, the opportunity here in West Point Gold is exciting. And for those that may not be familiar, this was once gold 79 mines basically. >> Well, let's talk about Arizona. I happen to be really familiar. I've been to half a dozen or 10 projects in the Nevada, Arizona area. There's a lot of gold there. And I don't know why uh West Point went so low, but it it was like 28 cents in April and it was 103 or something like that yesterday. So, it's it's been a fourbanger uh just in the last 6 months, but they've got a lot more holes coming and you could safely assume they're going to add a lot of gold. Now, their target is somewhere between 1 million and 3 million ounces. They talk about an expiration target. Let me see if I can see what it says. Okay. Yeah. I I can't find their comment, but they they say and it's on their website and it's on their presentation, they're targeting somewhere between 1 and 3 million ounces. And the only thing I could say is they're wrong. It's not going to happen. >> They're they're undershooting the uh they're undershooting their >> Well, strange enough and I really like it when companies do that. I I would rather have them underpromise and overd deliver. And I will tell you that at three million it's on the low side and they certainly have the kind of potential that Great Bear had. And that's saying a lot because again, Great Bear was a penny stock and it went all the way to 28 bucks when they were taken out. And by the way, for our lady uh ladies and gentlemen here, the ticker symbol for West Point Gold is WPG. Finally, let's introduce a company that is exploring for a metal that might not be on anyone's radar, but has significant implications in the military. What can you share with us about Antimony? >> Oh, okay. You asked me a trick question. All right. >> So, I'm going to ask you a trick question. >> Oh, boy. >> What's antimony used for? >> A number of purposes. Uh, you have it for fire retardants, bullets, nuclear. Uh, those are the first things that come to my mind. >> No. >> All right. >> No. If you have a lead acid battery, what can you say about the hardness of of the metal? >> What? You got me on this one. lead is really soft. >> So, it's a hardener is what antimony is. >> Ah, you need a hardener. And what is the best hardener to add to lead and lead acid batteries? >> And then the answer must be antimony. >> You got it. Okay. Here's what's really funny. Most mining companies, and this goes back a long, long way. Other than during wartime, everybody hates antimony because it's difficult to separate chemically and there's never been that much of a price um advantage over the the price of lead. However, it's an absolutely critical uh metal and they just happen to have a lot of it. So, uh, antimony is one of the medals that the Chinese responded to Donald Trump with and said, "Hey guys, remember all that antimony that you used to buy from us? Well, you can put it in the same category of silver and uh rare earth elements and you ain't going to buy anymore. So, we need Antimony and they've got Antimony and it will go into production. >> Yeah. And and by the way, the company that we're referring to here on antimony is military medals and military >> and people talk about military but but frankly I I think it's a bit mistake. uh the biggest single use is in batteries and it's the most important and yes it hardens bullets and yes it's used in in radioactive situations. However, the the most common and the easy to understand is it hardens lead in batteries and that's the biggest single use. >> Yeah. And again the biggest uh factor there to me that really has my attention is that China has the dominance on antimony. So, Military Metals has projects sprinkled throughout the world. Uh, you have them in Slovakia, Canada, and in the United States. And, uh, they are projected, I think, to produce an approximate one-third of Europe's annual demand on one of their on their flagship project should it come to fruition. >> Well, strangely enough, the real key element there, antimony, isn't particularly rare. And the reason nobody's gone into production is that the Chinese were willing to flood the world with it. And when the Chinese came up and said, "Okay, we're not going to give you antimony anymore." They cho totally changed the supply demand dynamics, which is absolutely true of silver, too. For uh the Chinese to put silver on critical metals list, that's a BFD. Wrapping things up, you've clearly laid out the macro risks. For the average listener who's worried about currency devaluation and the end of the debt super cycle, why is now the time to be moving savings into physical precious metals? >> Why does a road go Why does a dog go into the middle of the road to lick its dick? [laughter] >> I can't even say anything after that. >> No, there's a reason for it. Why? [laughter] He believes in uh good hygiene and wants everyone to see that he's clean. >> No, because he can. >> Because he can. All right. >> Why should you invest in junior resource stocks today given the geopolitical events, given the interest rates, given the Japanese carry trade, given cryptocurrencies because you can. The time is going to come when you can't because they're too expensive. >> Bob, you trust very few people in the business. For listeners who are ready to act on acquiring physical gold, silver, platinum, or palladium, why should they contact? Maurice Jackson. >> Well, when I wanted to sell gold, who did I contact? >> Maurice Jackson. Sir, >> you got it. >> Couldn't that's the biggest endorsement and I'm I'm truly honored for that. uh that that you have options and you you chose Maurice Jackson. That's the biggest feather in my cap I could have uh in in my uh in my space here. Now, ladies and gentlemen, I welcome the opportunity as well to earn your business. You may reach me directly at 855-5051900. That number again is 855-5051900. Mr. Morardi, last question, sir. What did I forget to ask? Uh >> oh. [laughter] >> Don't talk about goats on the top of your house. >> [laughter] >> I I I guess that means I'm not supposed to tell any more dirty jokes. >> Oh, you're welcome to. I didn't If you have one. [laughter] >> I don't ever play. >> If I have one. Come on. I was a fighter product when I was 20. I got 110. So, >> actually, we covered a lot of things. It's very important to cover what's cheap. It's very important to cover why it's cheap. And it's very important to cover if something's cheap, where is it going to go and we covered that and quite bluntly I mean uh us talking about uh the price of roodium 11 years or no 9 years ago. Nobody was I've never heard anybody talk about rodeium. You and I are the only people who even uh are aware rodeium exists. Well, this is a time to again for now to set a new standard, a new legacy if you will, for those that are listening. Again, the opportunities are silver and the opportunities are platinum. I'm of the opinion that platinum has the most potential. And Bob, just for your two cents here, silver or platinum? >> Uh, strange enough, short-term silver, long-term platinum? >> Mr. Morardi, >> there will be a there will be a correction, even a short correction in in platinum. The DSI says platinum is gonna correct and the DSI says silver is not going to. >> Well, Mr. Moriardi, it's been a pleasure speaking with you. Wishing you the absolute best, sir. >> Okay. It's always fun. >> Thank you, sir. >> The information presented on proven improbable is provided for educational andformational purposes only without any express [music] or implied warranty of any kind, including warranties of accuracy, completeness, or fitness for any particular purpose. The [music] information is not intended to be and does not constitute financial investment or trading advice or any other advice. You should not make any financial [music] investment or trading decision based on any of the information presented without first undertaking independent due diligence and consultation with a professional broker or competent financial adviser.
"Platinum is Exploding!" Bob Moriarty’s Warning for Gold & Silver Investors
Summary
Transcript
Welcome to Proven and Probable. I'm your host Maurice Jackson and joining us for a conversation is the founder of 321 Gold and 321 Energy.com, the legendary Bob Morardi. Mr. Morardi, welcome to the show. >> Well, it's it's a pleasure to be back and I I want to say I hope all of your listeners are old. Well, each time I speak with you, I am getting older and older and older. Sir, off to >> now. You didn't ask me why I want them to get older. >> All right. And why is that, sir? >> Okay. When did we talk about rodeium? >> We discussed rodeium 2017. >> Yeah, you you've got a very good memory. And I pointed out that in 2008, February or March of 2008, Rodeium touched $10,000. And then from 2008 until 2015, Rodeium declined. A and now we're going to test your memory. How low did Roodium go? It went from 10,000 down to what? It went down to roughly I think that the bottom was in the 600s. Am I correct? >> You're very very very good. The best number that I can come up with at 625 in August of 2016. Now, my thesis, my theory at the time was if you got something of real value that was worth $10,000 an ounce in 2008, then 8 years later, if you could buy it at $625, that's a good deal. And we agreed that rodeium was cheap relative to gold, relative to silver, and even relative to palladium. And if you were going to invest in a precious metal, that's the metal that you want to be in. So, we'll we'll continue our quiz. What did roodium do? >> It exploded unlike any other precious metal up to what 29,500. >> Very, very good. And when did it do that? >> 2021. >> Very very good. You've done your homework. Actually, I think I sent this to you. Um, so in in five or six years, uh, it it just exploded higher and that's almost a 50fold return. You need to do that once in your life. Now, gold went up, silver went up, platinum went up, rodium went up, rodeium went up the most, but uh uh shall we explain to your audience why it went up? >> That would be paramount, I believe, because we all want to learn and get some insights on what you see. >> Okay. Think of a hose and you're putting water through the hose and you've got a great big hose for gold because it's a big liquid market and you got a little tiny hose for silver and you got a tiny hole for platinum and then you got this infantessimal pencilsiz hole for roodium. But you're going to force the same amount of investment capital through each of the hoses. Well, gold's going to go up and silver is going to go up more and platinum's going to go up even more, but the one that's going to go up the most is roodium. And and here's what I want people to understand. In my books, I try to keep things simple. We talked about rodeium being the metal to buy for one reason and that was it was cheap. There was no other reason to buy. I don't give a damn what it's used for. I don't care what interest rates are. I don't care what the Fed's doing. I don't care who the president is. I don't care who we're at war with this week because that changes every week. I mean, you know, weeks change, wars change. But the reason rodeium went up, it was such a tiny market that any investment whatsoever would blast the price higher. So since uh 2021, what has rodeium done? >> It's come down, but it's it's remained actually relatively strong to my surprise. I think it's currently trading in the 8,000s >> around 6 7 8,000 something like that. Now looking at the price of rodium, looking at the price of platinum, looking at the price silver and gold, is it possible to say now that roodium is either cheap or it's expensive? >> You can and I would say the same. >> No, you can't. No, >> I was going to argue you could compare to uh just the ratio of one another, but you're you have a different view. Well, the the fact is in relative terms, it it's neither cheap nor expensive. It was expensive at 10,000 in 2008. It was expensive at 29,500 uh in 2021. It was cheap at 625 in August of of 2016, but it's not particularly cheap now, and it's not particularly expensive. What we want to do as investors is pick out what it's cheap and what it's expensive. And and here's the key element. And this is why I hope all your readers are old. If they will remember the conversations that we had back then, it was as simple as buying stuff because it was cheap and selling it when it was expensive. But now we've thrown in the parameter of why did rodeium go up so much and that that's an important issue that we never talked about before. So let's talk about the metals today. What's cheap? Platinum. Okay. Gold has has surpassed an all-time high. Silver has surpassed an all-time high. Rodeium has, but it's backed off. And uh do you happen to remember off the top of your head what the top in platinum was? 2200 2,300. Yeah, back there somewhere between 22 20250 something like that. Uh so at 1950 or 2000, platinum is still cheap relative to gold and silver and roodium. But considering the issue of the size of the market and considering what happened to rodeium, what kind of potential do we think we have for platinum? Well, could it surpass the all-time high? Absolutely. Could it blow past the all-time high? Absolutely. So, you know, could you have 2500 3,000 $4,000 gold? Because historically and platinum was discovered as a individual element around 1720 in Colombia by I I think a French um chemist. Mhm. >> So platinum's been around for a long time and most of the time platinum has had a premium to gold. So platinum at 5,000 could be cheap, okay, in relative terms. U it's not cheap like it was, but it's still cheap relative to gold, relative silver. And because it's such a tiny market, uh any money flowing into it could explode the price higher. So the the trick question of the day is what's the total value of cryptocurrencies today? >> I'm going to say it what it should be or what it is. >> What it is, >> I don't know the number, but it's in the trillions, I'm assuming. I don't follow cryptos. >> Yes. over 3 trillion. And the highest it's ever been, and this is all 17,000 cryptocurrencies, the highest it's ever been, was just over $4 trillion. And compared to the size of the gold market, compared to the size of the silver market, platinum, roodium, that that's a really big number. And it in the last 6 weeks it's dropped $1 trillion. And that is actually a greater financial crash that than the uh housing bubble back in 2008. So you had mentioned we were going to talk about the carry trade. >> Yes. How does the carry trade actually factor into this entire discussion? >> The size. expand on that for us because a lot of us may have un familiar understanding of course with cryptocurrencies are precious metals and resource stocks but behind the scenes there's this elephant and you brought this elephant to my attention it's the carry trade so please expand on that for us well it's not necessarily because size because carry trade's always been big it's because the direction of the movement now the Japanese kept um the value of the end down and interest rates either zero or negative for about 20 or 30 years. Okay. So what people would do is they would borrow money in yen, they would convert it to dollars or they would convert it to euros and they would buy treasury bonds or something like that. So if you were getting 2% interest on T-notes or T- bonds or T bills and it was costing you zero in interest on the yen, okay, you could make 2% on a riskfree investment. And the problem is it's not necessarily risk-free. It's only riskfree as long as Japanese interest rates stay low. Well, lately, Japanese interest rates have exploded higher, and the Japanese literally had the choice. They could do one of two things. They could save the world's economy, or they could save the yen. And their choice was to save the yen. >> Imagine that. >> So, they're letting the carry trade unwind. interest rates are exploding higher and now people are borrowing money at 4% or are are on the hook for interest at 4% but they're only collecting 3%. So they're unwinding their position. Now where this is important is not the fact of the carry trait. Where it's important is the size of the carry. If the cryptocurrency markets is 4 trillion, and that's a pretty big number, when you get into the Japanese carry trade, the best number I've seen is 12 trillion. And what they unwind these real estate loans, the CRE, uh, Oracle, uh, Nvidia, T bills, T- bonds, when they invite unwind these $12 trillion in investments over 6 months to a year, you're going to see interest rates in the West go through the roof as T- bonds get sold off. Japan of course is the biggest owner of T-bonds and T-notes in the world. So when they start selling those and repatriating the money to Japan, it's going to make a major shift in currencies and it's going to dramatically change uh the financial market. And the point here is when you got this teeny tiny market like roodium or like platinum, all it would take is a one or 2% shift. When when people unwind the money they've invested in the carry trade, they're still going to be sitting on some profits. If they take one or two% of that and move it into platinum, you could see 4,000, $5,000, $6,000, $10,000 platinum. I am not predicting that. I'm not one of these guys who's smart enough to predict price. I can predict direction, but I cannot predict price. The carry trade is going to unwind. That's $12 trillion. That's going to loosen a lot of capital. much of it is going to flow back to Japan, but a a fair bit of it could flow into gold, silver, platinum, and palladium. And since pad or platinum is the cheapest of the metals, uh that's the one that I think that it will go into. >> And that's very important. And I appreciate the integrity of you're not making a price prediction, but I got to tell you what, your calls, they're on they're on they're on the ball. That's the only way I can say it, sir. You look at all the names that are out there, you know. Well, if I let let me just give you your flowers here. I look at all the names that are out there that get interviewed and I see the thumbnail images and anyone watching, they see them as well. And there's still these uh advocates talking about gold is going to crush it and go to 5,000, 10,000. I'm like, well, wait a minute. There's a gentleman named Bob Morardi. He called Rodeium and it went to 29,500 and there's no recognition for a rodeium and and b of course your call. So we're honored to have you on here and and just to to you know again put another feather in your cap here. We interviewed in May platinum was 1100. If I'm not mistaken there wasn't really a single interview out there regarding platinum a month later. >> Oh yeah. There was one >> Yeah. Yours ours credit. >> I am I am I am so what I'm sharing is so there's one interview out there. It's yours. It's ours. Platinum's 1100. Right. It it jumped up to I believe 16 15 somewhere in there. 14. It doesn't matter. The price moved higher faster than the other metals. And yesterday it almost reached 2,000. I have to give credit to where credit is due. So again, you didn't make a price prediction, but you informed us of where to be and why we should be there. And for that, we're thankful. Well, you just raised a really good point. Have I ever said to you that you don't want to live in a world of $10,000 gold? >> Yes, sir. And I think it's important for us to share why that is. >> Well, that's a really good point. There is another guy who is a big guy in the Canadian junior resource field named Frank Gustra. And when Brix hit, he bailed out. He said, "Okay, the the Junior Research Market is going to be dead for years." And he started Lionscape Films, which happened to be a really good film studio. And he did well with it. He came back into the resource space at exactly the same time I did. And for exactly the same reason. Okay. Junior stocks had been so beaten up. I I can name you a stock in Canada that was in production. It was making a profit. When gold was $253 an ounce, the company was making a profit and you could buy a dollar of their cash for 75. They were selling at a discount yet they were still making money at the very bottom of the market. Frank Schustra did an interview recently with Daniel Camoran and he he was talking about uh gold at $5,000 or $10,000 an ounce and he said the same thing. You don't want to live in a world of $10,000 gold. And the reason for it is if you think that $10,000 gold is reasonable, you are also saying that $40 a gallon gasoline is reasonable because there is a ratio and a relationship between the price of gold and the price of gasoline. Okay? Yes, there's all kinds of good reasons to buy gold, but the fact is gold goes to 4500 or 5,000 or 10,000, you're going to see the price of energy go higher as well. So, you've got some really giant elephants. You open your refrigerator door and you got a bowl of jello sitting in it and you got a 2,000 lb elephant standing at it. Okay, that would be the Japanese carry trade. $4500 gold. That's a $600B gorilla sitting in your jello. Okay, there are things that are going on now that I never even anticipate it happening. I can tell you when gold's cheap. I can tell you when silver is cheap. I can tell you when rodeium's cheap. I cannot predict price. Uh there have been two times in 2008 at the top in the medals and in 2015 at the top in the medals somebody had the brag idea of going to all the experts in the gold space and asking them for their prediction. And the funny thing said it's in it's in one of my financial books. There were like 115 people that they asked, okay, what's goal going to be 2 years from now? Now, of the 115 people who were asked, do you have any idea of how many actually gave them a response? >> I'm sure maybe 50% gave a response, but I doubt that any of them were accurate. >> Well, first of all, none of them were accurate. That's absolutely correct. But if there were 115 people who were asked for a prediction, 114 people made predictions and 114 people were wrong. Now what I'll say is that I'm not smart enough to predict price but I am smart enough to understand that I'm not smart enough to predict price. So there was one person who was not wrong and that of course was me. [laughter] What a surprise. >> Yeah, what a shock. I I'm shocked. So, uh, we did talk about junior mining stocks. >> Yes. And I wanted to segue into that actually right now when you look at junior mining stocks and and it with the inclusion here of of base metals, you know, copper is soaring as well. When you're looking at the natural resource base, junior mining companies, what has your attention right now and why? >> Okay. uh from the conversation we've had so far today, do you understand why I think knowing the numbers it's important? Uh 4 trillion in cryptocurrencies, that's a really big number compared to the GFC in 2008, 12 trillion in the Japanese carry trade. That's a really big number, even bigger than the cryptocurrencies. So I wanted to know what the size of the junior resource market is. So I I asked uh Tavi at Crescat what the size of junior market was. That's really interesting. I sent the numbers to you. Uh the entire precious metals market value of companies below $1 billion was 78 billion in total. Okay. and 78 billion chump chain compared to uh cryptocurrencies and even bigger chump chains uh compared to the Japanese carry trade. And I got back to him, I said, "No, I'm not interested in billion dollar companies." Uh how about smaller companies? And he came back and said, "Okay, the the junior resource companies worth less than $500 million. There's 51 billion total." That's getting even smaller >> now. 51 billion compared to 4 trillion is a tiny figure compared to 12 trillion is a a pencil net. And I said, "Nah, no, I'm not interested in the $500 million companies. The below 100 million market cap." And he came back and said 14 billion. Now 14 billion as a percentage of the total investment capital in the entire world is not even a rounding error. Okay, it's like a pencil lead located on the moon. It's so small. But what does that mean in terms of psychology? Now, uh, did I ever mention to you what the DSI got on silver in 2011 when I predicted the top and silver? >> I think it coincided with your thesis that it was uh, >> well, it it absolutely did. U in January of 1980, the DFI got to 94 on silver. January 21st, 1980 was the absolute top in silver. Uh in 2011, I think it was April 25th of 2011. The DSI on silver got to 96. People were more optimistic on silver in 2011 than they were in u 1980. Even though the value of silver or $50 1980 was worth a lot more than $50 in 2011. However, people were more optimistic. Uh there was one guru who who called me up and said, "Look, I've written the greatest paper ever written about silver. 500 million people have read the thing. They think it's the most wonderful article ever. you should take every penny you got, buy silver because it's going to the moon. This is when the DSI and silver was in the mid90. And I said, well, gee, I'd really love to do that, but silver is the most volatile of the metals and if you will write an article about how dangerous it is to invest in silver at the top, I'll publish that. and and he he basically said, "Well, yeah, but you're a idiot." Which which could well be true. Uh so I I I never published him. And he literally made fun of me and went silver topped and I called the top in April 25th. Uh I had literally hundreds of people write me and tell me how stupid I was for saying silver topping. And I didn't feel bad. Okay. The reason I said it was topping is because everybody was so optimistic about the price of silver. They couldn't possibly be right. The mob is always wrong. So my response to each of them was exactly the same. And I said, "Look, it do me a favor. You don't know if you're right. I don't know if I'm right. write me in a month and remind me that either I'm a blithering idiot or I'm a genius. Now, of the 200 people who told me that I was a blithering idiot on April 25th, how many of them wrote me a month later? >> Oh, I'm sure all of them did not have an ego. So, they probably 100% No, I don't believe you received one response that said you Yeah. >> Zero. Zero. Nobody had the guts to say, "Oh, by the way, you know, you're not as dumb as I thought you were or dumb as you look." So then what does that have to do with the junior market? The the junior market of companies under $und00 million is $14 billion. Now, what did we learn by recommending Rodeium at 600 bucks? it went to 29,000 because it was such a tiny market. When the investment market changes and people get optimistic about uh junior resource stocks, what's going to happen to that market? It's going to explode higher. uh the the funny thing is I I mean you you take any percentage of the Japanese carry trade or any percentage of the crypto market uh any percentage of Nvidia if it moved into the junior resource market and it's going to move into the junior resource market at some point it's going to explode and you're going to see stocks go from a nickel to five bucks and Nobody's going to want to believe this right now. It is such a tiny hose that when you pour money into it, it's going to be the biggest bubble anybody has ever seen in world history. And it's going to happen. Now then, let's talk about the DSI on platinum. >> I was going to ask you, I was just waiting. What What can you share with us? >> And on silver. >> My my pen is ready. Would you like to guess the DSI on platinum? >> You're putting me on the spot. You don't have to. >> Yeah. No, I You're going to put me on the spot. I'm going to say it's in the 70s. Let's see if I >> 88. >> I was Okay. All right. Not bad. >> Okay. The DSI, the daily sentiment indicator is 88 on platinum and it's 88 on palladium. Both of which have have shot higher. And that indicates we're not at the top. and it indicates that there's a good chance that we could have a correction in those. But the real interesting thing, and I'm going to give you two sentiment indicators, and I am going to put you on the spot, and of course, half your listeners hate me for saying this. I'm going to put you on the spot, and I'm going to give you two sentiment indicators on silver at the highest price in history. And I want you to tell me what it's going to be. What's the DSI in silver yesterday? >> This has to be in the low 90s. Low to mid 90s. >> How about How about 75? >> Oh, I was way off. Interesting. At an alltime high. >> What does that tell you about sentiment on silver? >> And it still has a ways to go. >> It not only has a ways to go at the very highest price it's ever been in history, people are not as optimistic as they were a month ago when silver was 10 bucks cheaper. Now, if that's true and if I am reading the numbers correctly, there would be another sentiment indicator that would either confirm or deny the accuracy of the DSI. I'm pretty sure I've talked about this before. The the PSLV is the spat silver ETF. in uh April of 2011, it allowed me to call top because the DSI, not I'm sorry, not the DSI, the premium on silver, April 25th of of 2011 was 26%. So with silver at about 50 bucks, people were actually paying $63 an ounce for PSLV. That's how optimistic they were. So, let's try to figure out what the the discount or the premium on silver today is and whether it what it tells us about what's going to happen to the market. If it was 26 at the high in April of 2011, what is it now >> on the PSLV? The price. >> Yeah. Not not the price, the discount or the premium. It had a 26% premium at the top in 2011. So at the highest price silver it's ever been yesterday. What is the premium or the discount? And what does that tell us is going to happen to silver? >> Give me the answer. Bobus 4%. >> Really? I was not expecting that. >> I I'll go you one better. I have invested in a silver ETF one time in my life. I I I'm not smart enough to make money at that. I'm not smart enough to make money in cryptocurrencies, but one time in my life, I invested in in PSLV. >> And how were the results? >> I made a lot of money. Okay. And do you remember the conversations we had in late 2019 into uh early 2020? And I I don't really expect you to remember them, but you might. >> Give me a a refresher, a reminder here if you will. >> Okay. In early 2019, I was predicting a market crash by October. >> Yes. >> Lots of people said Morardi and idiot. The market didn't crash. What they don't understand is that it actually did crash and nobody noticed. It's September of 2019. We had a repo crash. identical to what happened a month ago. Okay. All of a sudden, there was a liquidity problem and the Fed started pumping money into the system, but it took from September of 2019 to March of 2020. And everybody talks about the COVID crash, but that's Uh the market did not go down because of COVID. The market went down because it was a liquidity crisis. and everybody was selling everything. So, uh, in January and in February and in every case, every article I have ever written, it's still on my website. And I would highly encourage your viewers to to go see this in January and in February. I was saying, "Hey, wait a minute. This crash, it's not over. It just got started." And sure enough, in March of 2020, silver crashed to below $12 an ounce. Now, you you buy silver. If you thought $12 an ounce was a really good deal and and you had say $10,000 spare capital, how could you buy silver 12 bucks an ounce? >> You virtually couldn't. No one would. >> You couldn't. Okay. Because if you walked into a coin store, he could have silver stacked to the rafters, okay? And said, "I, you know, give me $10,000 worth of silver." He'd say, "Sorry." Because he paid 16 bucks an ounce, 17 bucks an ounce or 18 bucks an ounce, and he not about to sell it cheaper than what he paid for it. So, the nominal price of silver was 12 bucks an ounce. Okay? But if you didn't have to have physical silver, what else could you invest in? >> Resource stocks or PLV? >> No, there's no PSLV. Okay, it's traded like stock. Okay, and here's where it gets beautiful. Here's why. I I invested one time at PSLV. The discount on PSLV got to 11%. So, if you bought PSLV, you were not paying 12 bucks an ounce. You were paying under $11 an ounce for silver. And that's something people could still do. And the data is on Sprat's website. This is not information that that's confidential that people whisper to me. Uh this is information available to anybody. The discount on PSLV got to 11%. So you not only could buy silver at a nominal cost of $12, you could buy PSLB under $11. So I bought silver under $11 and between March of 2020 in August of 2020, uh the silver went to 30 bucks an ounce. >> Ah, and you didn't call me that day. I recall that. You didn't uh why didn't you call me let me know to do >> Well, I was sitting there waiting for you to call me. [laughter] Well, you know, uh, switching gears here slightly. We're talking about resource stocks and we're talking about silver, right? Let's talk about some, uh, resource stocks that have your attention. Beginning with Apollo Silver, which hosts two of the, uh, actually hosts the second largest, let me correct myself here, the second largest silver deposit in the United States at 125 million ounces at the Calico project located in the mining friendly San Bernardino County. What can you share with us about Apollo Silver that has your attention? >> No big deal. [laughter] That's not the biggie. You need to talk about the Biggie. >> The Biggie, in our opinion, I believe is going to be the Cinco de Mayo, which is their second asset located in Mexico. >> I've been there. >> What excites you about the Cinco deio? Because this it it once was the darling, if you will, 15 10 years ago, and people lost sight of it. and uh if you could share the background on the Cinco de Mayo Force. >> Uh Mag Silver owned a Peter McGaw and I took a three or 4 day tour of uh northern Mexico and I went see that god 20 years ago probably at and Peter McGaw is the expert on Mexico period. Okay. He he has contributed more to the Mexican economy uh by understanding uh geology and understanding politics and understanding and there have been political issues with stupid uh Mexican governments. I I mean putting the word stupid in government the same sentence seems like it's redundant. U I I'm an equal opportunity opportunity or uh I mean the equal opportunity of anarchist to despise all governments equally but uh Apollo is waiting for permission to move forward on CO deio and that is a big ass deposit. They're going to get it because at $66 an ounce, even the Mexican government wakes up said, you know, if we actually produce something in our country and we taxed it, we could make money. And they're going to Apollo has great management. They're sitting on two of a couple of the best silver projects in the world. And the Southern California project is interesting, but the Mexican project it's is company making. And I I believe it will go into production and Mexico make a lot of money and Apollo will make a lot of money and investors in Paulo will make a lot of money. >> Yeah, it's a in a value proposition that has my attention. And I think if you know a lot of uh individuals in this space they claim to be silver stackers but I always share you know at the infasy level silver stackers just have the physical bullion but I think if you want to take it to the next notch you need to also identify some good junior mining companies and mining companies in silver to go with that portfolio. And I can't think of a better one right now that can complement one silver stacking portfolio than Apollo Silver. And by the way, Apollo Silver is a uh sponsor for both 321 Gold and Proven Improbable, and it trades on the TSXV symbol APO, leaving Mexico. >> Well, let's let's hang on, sir. Let's let's talk for just a minute. You're not talking about 10 bagger potential. Go back to the analogy of rodeium, okay? When you try to fit that volume of money through a tube that is the size of a pencil lead and that's what the junior resource market is right now. It is going to be explosive like it's never happened before in history and exactly the same way roodium was. It is such a tiny market that any move of capital into it, it is going to explode the real stocks far higher than anybody can imagine. I I mean the one thing I'll say and I'm interested in what you think about this. They the price of the silver stocks do not reflect $66 an ounce silver. Period. >> No, they don't. Which is uh interesting. I was actually going to ask you about that. [laughter] >> Why? Who's ask who's interviewing who here? >> Well, I'm interviewing you and I think people want to hear from >> No, no, no, no, no, no. You got it wrong. [laughter] >> That is a very uh interesting question because I think a lot of I've gotten a lot of inquiries about that. There seems to be a disconnect between the metal price and the actual uh silver stocks. Why is that? >> Okay, stop. Stop it right there. I I just proved it to you. With the highest price of silver in history, the PSLB is selling at a 4% discount. And frankly, 4% is a lot. Okay, in relative terms, the the chart is on their website and you can look it up. 4% is very negative number on sentiment. And when you look at the DSI, we got the highest price in history on silver and a DSI of 75% at 75% is, you know, on Nobody gives a damn about silver. I mean, why would they care about silver that's gone up 108% in one year? >> That's incredible. But it also pre presents the opportunities that you identify, the ones that are known as contrarian investments. And this is the opportunity I believe right here, right now. I couldn't think of a better one. >> Well, there's a number of them. I I I do want everybody to understand regardless who's advertising on your website, regardless who's advertising on my website, there are going to be penny stocks. They're going to end up being multiple dollar stocks. There is an opportunity of a lifetime literally to make your fortune. Now, we we should at least mention a Gilbert for just a minute. He has said he sees a correction coming, and I happen to agree with that. But you're going to see when the correction comes if you will follow the DSI, okay? And in one trade you can more than make up for the total cost of the DSI. The PSLV will give you very valid information. PSLV is saying that silver is cheap. The DSI is saying that platinum and palladium are relatively expensive. But the DSI say silver is absurdly cheap. And that's an indication. Now, people like to throw numbers out, but if you consider uh silver at a ratio of about 30 to1 to gold, if you went 30 to1 with gold at $4500, you got $150 silver. Is that possible? Absolutely. >> Am I predicting it? Absolutely not. I'm not that smart, but it is certainly possible. and you could be seeing $10 a day moves. The one thing I'll say about silver is there was no metal that is as emotional both on the way up and on the way down. If you go back to 1974 to 1975, gold went from I think 185 bucks to 105 bucks in a year. Okay. So from from 1970 when gold was 35 bucks to 1980 when gold got up to 850 uh you had this incredible advance but you had almost a 50% decline from 74 to 75 you are going to have that in the precious metals markets the DSI will predict it Gelbert is absol Absolutely correct. There will be a correction. If you want to know when it's going to happen, it's going to happen when the DSI hits 92, 93, 94. And and if correct, have silver hit the highest it's ever going to be? No. Has gold hit the highest it's ever been? No. All of those is going to go higher. But the amazing thing is right now the cheapest thing in the entire universe is the junior resource market. >> You said a lot there, but you've also referenced the DSI. I don't think we've actually shared what it actually represents. That's the daily sentiment index, correct? >> Yeah, it's a daily sentiment index and it refers to the percentage of people who are either optimistic or pessimistic. If the DSI is 100, it means 100% of people are optimistic and they are buyers. If it's zero, 100% of the people are pessimistic and they are sellers. The market is always correct and the people are I I'm getting jerked around by my dog. Hey, excuse me. Excuse me. Go play. I I have a four-year-old Australian bore collie and he thinks the greatest thing in the world is for dad to play with him. I mean, see, come here. Come here. >> Yeah, I get the same. I have I have a cat doing a figure eight between my legs constantly when I'm interviewing you. [laughter] If you can adjust your camera there. There we go. Got you down. All right. So, back to the DSI. And by the way, that is uh by Jake Bernstein, correct? >> Yes. And he happens to be the nicest guy in the world. That is the single most valuable sentiment indicator that I have ever seen. It will mark accurately both tops and bottoms. And if you go to Jake, we have a special arrangement. If you go to Jake and you whine to him and you tell him, "I'm poor. I have no money, but Bob has said that if I whine long enough and loud enough, you'll give me a break." He'll do it. I tell you what, I'll leave a link for uh the DSI to contact uh Mr. Bernstein for anyone interested. And I I encourage you to contact him. I've had the pleasure of interviewing him. He is quite a nice nice gentleman. He he >> Yeah. Well, leaving Mexico, let's visit West Point Gold, which has four promising gold projects throughout the prolific Walker Lane in Nevada and extending into Arizona. introduces to their flagship project, the gold chain, located in the Oakatman district of Arizona. >> Are you a mind readader? >> Telepathy has been one of my gifts. No, sir, I'm joking. >> I think it is one of your gifts. Uh, guess who's right in the midst of writing an article about them right now? >> Would it be Bob Morardi of 321? >> Uh, that it it would be Bob Morardi 321 Gold. Here's what's interesting. Uh they they came to me and they talked to me about what they were doing and I took a look the price and talked to management and they started advertising and they came out with Here's the problem that I had. You don't run into this all that often. They had so many different projects that were such high quality. It was really hard for me to measure what they had. Now, let me read some numbers to you. Uh, yesterday the 17th, they released assay results of 24.4 m of 5.92 g gold and 8.3 g uh 16 m of 8.3 g from 158 m. If you want to know what a home run hole is with gold, you want to look at gram meters. Multiply the grams by the meters and that will tell you. Anything over 100 is a home run. And when you get into 200, 300, 400, those are literally company making holes. So if you take a whole 24 m of essentially 6 g gold, you've got something like 140 g meters. And if you take 16.8 8 m of 8 g gold. Uh again, you got uh right at 100 gram meters. The the last uh company that I saw that had these kind of numbers was Bear Creek. Do you remember what happened to them? >> They only shot up from uh a couple of cents to 28 bucks. >> Exactly. It got bought out. Okay. These numbers are the same kind of thing. These numbers are so high that if the price of gold was cut in half tomorrow, which could happen, it would still be economic. Okay, that's a big deal. Now, that's from the the gold chain project. And they've increased I haven't finished my piece. I wish you we' done the interview after I finished my piece. I wouldn't look so stupid. Uh I I think their increase in the drill program at Gold Chain from 10,000 m to 15,000 m and because they got so many warrants at a cheap price, they just raised $3 million in cash. So they're well financed, got plenty of money to drill, good good solid management. And and the crazy thing is and what I had a problem with with them was they had all these other projects including one JV with like the Kin Ross that Ken Ross is financing the entire thing to earn 80% of it. So they there won't be assay results from that and it's relatively meaningless to the total value. But right now, I think they've got about hundred or $105 million market cap and they absolutely have uh great bear potential. >> They certainly do. And by the way, is that an open pit or underground on the gold chain? >> Well, absolutely underground. Uh the [laughter] Okay, here here's the deal. I I should have said this. the 24 m of 5.92 g was 120 m down. So it would either be the world's biggest hole or it would be outdograph. I'll answer that. And by the way, you did reference Ken Ross saying they do have a relationship there with West Point Gold on the Jefferson Canyon which uh I think you you're correct on there. There's a earning 80% and it could get to I think a total of 10 million if I'm not mistaken. My numbers might be slightly off on that, but uh yeah, the opportunity here in West Point Gold is exciting. And for those that may not be familiar, this was once gold 79 mines basically. >> Well, let's talk about Arizona. I happen to be really familiar. I've been to half a dozen or 10 projects in the Nevada, Arizona area. There's a lot of gold there. And I don't know why uh West Point went so low, but it it was like 28 cents in April and it was 103 or something like that yesterday. So, it's it's been a fourbanger uh just in the last 6 months, but they've got a lot more holes coming and you could safely assume they're going to add a lot of gold. Now, their target is somewhere between 1 million and 3 million ounces. They talk about an expiration target. Let me see if I can see what it says. Okay. Yeah. I I can't find their comment, but they they say and it's on their website and it's on their presentation, they're targeting somewhere between 1 and 3 million ounces. And the only thing I could say is they're wrong. It's not going to happen. >> They're they're undershooting the uh they're undershooting their >> Well, strange enough and I really like it when companies do that. I I would rather have them underpromise and overd deliver. And I will tell you that at three million it's on the low side and they certainly have the kind of potential that Great Bear had. And that's saying a lot because again, Great Bear was a penny stock and it went all the way to 28 bucks when they were taken out. And by the way, for our lady uh ladies and gentlemen here, the ticker symbol for West Point Gold is WPG. Finally, let's introduce a company that is exploring for a metal that might not be on anyone's radar, but has significant implications in the military. What can you share with us about Antimony? >> Oh, okay. You asked me a trick question. All right. >> So, I'm going to ask you a trick question. >> Oh, boy. >> What's antimony used for? >> A number of purposes. Uh, you have it for fire retardants, bullets, nuclear. Uh, those are the first things that come to my mind. >> No. >> All right. >> No. If you have a lead acid battery, what can you say about the hardness of of the metal? >> What? You got me on this one. lead is really soft. >> So, it's a hardener is what antimony is. >> Ah, you need a hardener. And what is the best hardener to add to lead and lead acid batteries? >> And then the answer must be antimony. >> You got it. Okay. Here's what's really funny. Most mining companies, and this goes back a long, long way. Other than during wartime, everybody hates antimony because it's difficult to separate chemically and there's never been that much of a price um advantage over the the price of lead. However, it's an absolutely critical uh metal and they just happen to have a lot of it. So, uh, antimony is one of the medals that the Chinese responded to Donald Trump with and said, "Hey guys, remember all that antimony that you used to buy from us? Well, you can put it in the same category of silver and uh rare earth elements and you ain't going to buy anymore. So, we need Antimony and they've got Antimony and it will go into production. >> Yeah. And and by the way, the company that we're referring to here on antimony is military medals and military >> and people talk about military but but frankly I I think it's a bit mistake. uh the biggest single use is in batteries and it's the most important and yes it hardens bullets and yes it's used in in radioactive situations. However, the the most common and the easy to understand is it hardens lead in batteries and that's the biggest single use. >> Yeah. And again the biggest uh factor there to me that really has my attention is that China has the dominance on antimony. So, Military Metals has projects sprinkled throughout the world. Uh, you have them in Slovakia, Canada, and in the United States. And, uh, they are projected, I think, to produce an approximate one-third of Europe's annual demand on one of their on their flagship project should it come to fruition. >> Well, strangely enough, the real key element there, antimony, isn't particularly rare. And the reason nobody's gone into production is that the Chinese were willing to flood the world with it. And when the Chinese came up and said, "Okay, we're not going to give you antimony anymore." They cho totally changed the supply demand dynamics, which is absolutely true of silver, too. For uh the Chinese to put silver on critical metals list, that's a BFD. Wrapping things up, you've clearly laid out the macro risks. For the average listener who's worried about currency devaluation and the end of the debt super cycle, why is now the time to be moving savings into physical precious metals? >> Why does a road go Why does a dog go into the middle of the road to lick its dick? [laughter] >> I can't even say anything after that. >> No, there's a reason for it. Why? [laughter] He believes in uh good hygiene and wants everyone to see that he's clean. >> No, because he can. >> Because he can. All right. >> Why should you invest in junior resource stocks today given the geopolitical events, given the interest rates, given the Japanese carry trade, given cryptocurrencies because you can. The time is going to come when you can't because they're too expensive. >> Bob, you trust very few people in the business. For listeners who are ready to act on acquiring physical gold, silver, platinum, or palladium, why should they contact? Maurice Jackson. >> Well, when I wanted to sell gold, who did I contact? >> Maurice Jackson. Sir, >> you got it. >> Couldn't that's the biggest endorsement and I'm I'm truly honored for that. uh that that you have options and you you chose Maurice Jackson. That's the biggest feather in my cap I could have uh in in my uh in my space here. Now, ladies and gentlemen, I welcome the opportunity as well to earn your business. You may reach me directly at 855-5051900. That number again is 855-5051900. Mr. Morardi, last question, sir. What did I forget to ask? Uh >> oh. [laughter] >> Don't talk about goats on the top of your house. >> [laughter] >> I I I guess that means I'm not supposed to tell any more dirty jokes. >> Oh, you're welcome to. I didn't If you have one. [laughter] >> I don't ever play. >> If I have one. Come on. I was a fighter product when I was 20. I got 110. So, >> actually, we covered a lot of things. It's very important to cover what's cheap. It's very important to cover why it's cheap. And it's very important to cover if something's cheap, where is it going to go and we covered that and quite bluntly I mean uh us talking about uh the price of roodium 11 years or no 9 years ago. Nobody was I've never heard anybody talk about rodeium. You and I are the only people who even uh are aware rodeium exists. Well, this is a time to again for now to set a new standard, a new legacy if you will, for those that are listening. Again, the opportunities are silver and the opportunities are platinum. I'm of the opinion that platinum has the most potential. And Bob, just for your two cents here, silver or platinum? >> Uh, strange enough, short-term silver, long-term platinum? >> Mr. Morardi, >> there will be a there will be a correction, even a short correction in in platinum. The DSI says platinum is gonna correct and the DSI says silver is not going to. >> Well, Mr. Moriardi, it's been a pleasure speaking with you. Wishing you the absolute best, sir. >> Okay. It's always fun. >> Thank you, sir. >> The information presented on proven improbable is provided for educational andformational purposes only without any express [music] or implied warranty of any kind, including warranties of accuracy, completeness, or fitness for any particular purpose. The [music] information is not intended to be and does not constitute financial investment or trading advice or any other advice. You should not make any financial [music] investment or trading decision based on any of the information presented without first undertaking independent due diligence and consultation with a professional broker or competent financial adviser.