Deficits, Debasement, and Big Money's Blessing: The 'Perfect Storm' for GOLD
Summary
Secular Gold Bull: The guest argues a secular bull market in precious metals is underway, driven by structural forces overriding typical cyclical headwinds.
De-dollarization: He details a multi-year shift away from US Treasuries toward gold by global actors, while stressing the dollar’s dominance means no sudden collapse.
Deglobalization & Geopolitics: Persistent conflicts and geopolitical realignment contrast with the 1990s peace dividend era, providing sustained tailwinds for gold.
Institutional Demand: Post-Basel III, banks and large allocators are moving into allocated physical gold, with futures leverage unwinding and targets rising across institutions.
Stablecoins & Tether: Tether is amassing substantial gold and exploring gold-backed tokens; tokenization adds counterparty risk but boosts marginal demand.
Gold Miners Setup: The guest sees majors undervalued with capital now flowing across the curve; warns of froth and warrant clipping in juniors as financing returns.
Company Watch: Strategic interest from Alamos Gold and Centerra Gold is noted, alongside institutional shifts by banks such as JPMorgan and commentary from Morgan Stanley.
M&A Outlook: Expect continued consolidation as producers lack early-stage exploration teams; disciplined buyers may benefit while explorers should manage dilution risk.
Transcript
Hello everybody and welcome into commodity culture where we break down commodities markets all with the goal of making you a better investor in the commodities sector. My name is Jesse Day. Today is January 19th, 2026 and my guest today is the CEO of Dryen Gold, an exploration company focused on the discovery of high-grade gold mineralization in the Dryen Gold District of Ontario. It's Trey Waser. Always great to have you on the show. >> Hey Jesse, thanks for having me. And what a day to be chatting as gold reaching new all-time highs as we speak. Now, you recently published a fantastic article on your Substack titled, "The secular bull market in precious metals." I want to read a quote. You said, "Cyclical factors that have always affected gold prices combined with long-term structural events are merging in real time. They are converging on the world economies in tectonic fashion, creating a structural and fundamental background that supports a secular case for owning gold and silver for the foreseeable future. So, walk us through these cyclical factors and structural events and how they are combining to drive the gold market today. >> Sure, Jesse. The you know, secular markets are very rare. Uh I I you know as a as a young stock broker I I came in um started at Meil Lynch in 1982 when interest rates were 15% and uh you actually participated and and and witnessed a 40-year bull market in bonds and um you know again I think that's where we are in the precious metals market these days and you can just kind Look at these structurals. If you have noticed, some of the typical cyclical factors that historically have controlled precious metals prices have either broken down or they're being altered or overridden by some other factors. I mean, real interest rates are still still high and and and I I don't really think dropping at all. uh and and yet gold has risen in the last two years from 2000 to 4,700 about today, you know, and also gold's ridden in risen uh despite a strong stock market the last two years. I mean, these are two things that normally would uh uh restrict gold going up. So there but there are some long-term structural changes such as dd dollararization which we talk about a lot degalization institutional shifting of assets and techn technological advances that are having a direct impact on precious metal prices. So let's break it down a little bit. Dolorization has been a theme going on for the past decade, but it really accelerated in 2022 when we the US levied or the world really that leveraged sanctions on Russian assets. Uh you know the whole world took notice of that and central banks began to shift and really accelerate their uh their their move from US treasuries to gold. And now in 2025 and uh and and going into 2026, tariff policies are now exas exasperating that. U you have the BRICS nations are getting more comfortable trading amongst themselves in their own currencies. China is amassing a huge gold position to advance non-dollar trading even further. And now we see Japan as you know throwing in the towel on their zero interest rate policy. And uh so they're starting to repatriate capital as as uh you know the those dollars that have traditionally been in US treasuries can go home now and and and actually earn a decent return. Uh China and Japan were historically two of the largest buyers of of US treasuries. So now deglobalization is also really accelerating in driving gold prices. You know, geopolitics has always been a a factor in uh driving gold prices. Uh you you have a war breaks out and gold prices spike and then things settle down and most of those gains are are you know quickly given back. Uh and uh but geopolitics to politics today is different. You know, the war in Ukraine drags on the US now moving on Venezuela now now Greenland and then likely Cuba. You know, the Trump administration is clearly set on securing the Western Hemisphere, whatever that means. Uh and u you know, Iran is in turmoil and the Middle East landscaping is shifting. political strife within the US even is accelerating. Um so you you know and and immigration of course has has uh been a big factor in that that's um you know something that uh isn't just a US issue. Europe has their own u uh you know problems with with that as well. So, you know, at the and if you think about it in the in that bond market I talked about 40-year what we had in the in at the at the beginning of that and about the first dec within the first decade was the Berlin wall came down the Soviet Union you know this is all around ' 89 to 91 the Soviet Union broke up you know it was there was what George HW Bush called the peace dividend and it was exactly the opposite of that drove interest rates down now we have just the opposite and it's it's it's driving gold and precious metals higher. So, um that's uh you know the that that really I think is is are the two main themes to look at of that do not seem to be uh changing anytime soon. >> Well, you mentioned ddollarization, but you also wrote that we should beware of anyone calling for the collapse of the US dollar. This is a narrative we hear a lot out there, including from some guests on this show as well. Why in your view is the death of the dollar greatly exaggerated? >> Let me let me first say, Jesse, that I have tremendous respect for for all those out there that I called in my piece the gold pundits, of which I am one. You know, I read many of these them and consider many close friends and certainly business associates. Uh, you know, Rick Rule and Eric Sprat were instrumental in the success of my last company, Elie Gold Royalties. And Andy Sheckman is a close personal friend who I've done business with for over the last 15 years, stacking gold and silver. And on a daily basis, I subscribe and read Metals and Mining, QTR, Macro, Butler, uh, XRP, Manchester. Those are daily reads for me. And, and so I don't mean any disrespect. I think you know like me they have PMS precious metal strategy. So but but look this this is simply a case of arithmetic Jesse daily FX market transactions total 8 to9 trillion the US dollar makes up 90% of all daily FX transactions this this is all worldwide business commerce agriculture debt equity futures and trading uh central central bank activity, everything. So, one out of every 10 business transactions worldwide involve the US dollar. And to put this into perspective, in non-doll transllated transactions, the Chinese yuan trades about 850 billion, the euro trades about 700 billion, the yen trades about 650 billion. uh stable cone daily volume which you know while growing is last year was 122 billion. Um the value of of gold traded on a daily basis is estimated at about 350 billion but that includes futures trading which you know is and and ETFs physical gold is closer to 125 billion. So to replace the the US dollar or revert to a 100% gold standard would take about $300,000 gold prices. So a total collapse of the gold would just mean a total collapse of worldwide commerce as we know it. Uh there is no substitute here. Um >> for the for the US dollar, you mean right? >> For for the US dollar, right? I mean u it's there there's just nothing that comes close to being able to provide that kind of liquidity that it you know when again call it a reserve currency I'm not saying it's not going to devalue but you know it's uh derization can't really be be defined in my opinion as little by little then all at once. It's more like little by little, then a little bit more by a little bit more, then a little bit more than that. U and you know, it's it's it's it's going to you're going to continue to see the dollar uh other things work in, but as far as just all of a sudden we wake up one day and that the dollar has is is gone, can't happen. Well, talk to us about the shift in big money now moving towards the gold space and its implications for the market. You've spoken before about Basil 3 um banks front running the gold trade and Tether expanding its position in the gold markets uh gold market as well as gold back stable coins. Break this all down for us and what its implications are. Well, look, as I as I look at, you know, last year uh and you know, spectacular rise, 65% move in in the price of gold. And let me say when I talk about gold, I I I mean precious metals. I mean, silver is uh I I'll I'll say, you know, I don't I don't want to say gold and silver every time. And silver has its own uh additional stories, right? But I mean I really mean precious metals when I say gold. But but gold is is certainly the the the main thing that's going to be uh you know used at central banks and reserves and stuff. And so you know the the critical the the Basel 3 making gold a tier one liquid asset a high quality liquid asset. uh it which happened in July last year was a major uh happening uh it it did quite a few things for the gold market. I mean first of all you know it it now allows banks to put money uh their their reserve money into uh into gold and that's physical allocated gold not futures uh or other contracts. So consequently, what that did all at once is it made allocated gold more valuable and it made futures contracts riskier. And we're seeing the implications of that today as these paper the paper leverage on gold and silver are unwinding. Um and so look the they always say the banks know first and so you know the the US banks figured this out and you know they they started shifting their positions JP Morgan City Bank for sure uh you know covering their shorts. I mean JP Morgan's been fine before for manipulating gold prices using futures and you know there's there's I don't think there's any argument. It's certainly not with with anybody uh uh with PMS uh is uh uh you know going to going to deny that the futures market and the heavy leverage there has been used to suppress gold uh and precious metal prices for for decades. JP Morgan was fine for doing it more than once uh as were other large banks. But JP that you know the US banks got the message and they covered and went long. They started taking physical delivery of of gold and silver. They happened to have you know JP Morgan's vault. Most people don't realize this in New York is actually connected to the Comx vault. So people didn't know if it was which vault it was actually going to when when all that silver was shipped over. U and so that once once they got positioned um then all of a sudden you started to see you know the beginnings of the of the short squeeze and uh you know that that the the and and and suddenly the banks started raising their targets for gold. they started then we had JP or Morgan Stanley, Mike Wilson come out and change the allocation for gold. Uh actually you know the uh JP Morgan started putting people into gold late 24 early 25 knowing what was going on here. So that allocation has already shifted. And so now with these new allocations uh you have uh you know even uh even the passive investing accounts are starting are are adding fuel to the gold fire and and on top of that now as a high quality liquid asset that's also drives investment decisions for your uh insurance companies and their reserve accounts. uh also for uh sovereign and uh endowment funds and these funds they take a while to change their investment strategy you know they something like this happens like Basel 3 they don't just jump and say okay we're going to start buying gold like the banks can they have to have committees and consultants and meetings and you know it takes them about a year usually to make a big uh change in their investment policy policy. So I I think you know we're just seeing the start of that and uh uh you know I think that uh you know again this this is uh institutional in a secular bull market you know your first phase uh generally does not involve big institutional buying and so but you do need to have it to support a long-term secular bull market. So now we're starting to really see it come in with with these allocations. And of course then Tether, you know, with uh in the stable coin market, I do not really believe that stable coin tokenization is something that's going to take really change uh uh the the the gold landscape uh in the near term. uh the problem with tokenization it might be okay for stocks which which are just a promise of a company anyway and some other assets but uh with gold uh you know it's just another it's just another paper contract really uh might be digital and and uh and I I think uh I I maybe make too much light of it but I think you have counterparty risk when you know in tokenization however it's the stable coin market is a great business for Tether and they're very profitable and they're very interested in owning gold and have not only amassed a huge position in the gold market. I think they're, you know, one of the the largest independent owner of of gold now in one in little little over a year maybe. Uh they're certainly in the top 25 30 of all and that includes all the central banks. They're the size of a central bank of how much gold they they're they have uh amassed and you know they you know they also have a small gold token uh fund uh which they I I nobody knows exactly what their their game plan is but we've seen them now buying up royalty companies or u you know at least two and I think they're they're in the hunt for looking for more um and um you I I don't I don't think it's unreasonable to think that, you know, they they their their large almost 190 billion dollar u dollar stable coin uh that has to invest in US treasuries. Their their gold fund is uh only a couple billion. But uh could they start moving some of that money, converting it? Uh, I don't think I don't think the unbanked and emerging countries and and some of the nefarious uh holders of of their dollar stable coin would care as long as it they could find a way to keep gold at or keep the gold fund at a dollar or at a stable price, right? >> Let's shift to the gold mining sector and dried in gold. Uh, how do you currently see gold mining equities positioned? And as the CEO of Dryen, what are the biggest tailwinds and greatest challenges ahead in 2026 for the industry and maybe uh work in how Dryen Gold fits into the picture as well? >> Well, let's just talk about the sector in general first and uh and then talk about dry and what we accomplished in 25 and and what our goals are for 26. But you know, Rick Rule did a piece just recently and uh you know uh he he he said that uh in his entire career he has never seen the mining sector uh trickle down as as quickly. In other words, you know, when you have a big move in the price of gold, the major companies move first, then the second tier, and then the developers, and then it spills down into the explorers. uh in 2025 it happened all at once and I can tell you from my experience at Dryden we go every year to the Beaver Creek uh precious metals conference and that's probably it's in it's in September it's it's widely attended uh certainly by all the institutional players buyers and it's really where you go to raise money if you're a a a junior mining company u it And we went there in 23 and with Dryen, you know, for for several reasons. We were in 23 and 24 when we were in Beaver Creek, we were able to raise money in a market when nobody else could. There were a few other companies that were getting checks written, but mostly for two years there, it was long faces and um and not many checks being written. Now 2025 that completely changed. Uh now we had raised money uh prior to Beaver Creek. So we weren't there with our handout but uh everybody was getting money. And today I know talking with a banker in in Toronto last week. They did three bought deals in one week uh in the junior mining sector. So let me tell you while I think the fundamentals for the major companies and that's is what Rick was pointing out is that that now everybody's able to get money the money's you know probably going it's being probably a lot misallocated. I think some of these current deals are being done, you know, with a half a warrant, a full warrant. And I I think they're more going to hedge funds and warrant clippers than into into strong hands. Like uh you know, when we did our deal this last fall, we didn't have to have to put a a warrant on it at all. And the stronger companies are are finding that or were. But so we'll see. right now. I I agree with Rick that the the major companies are probably under undervalued in general because of their good fundamentals. Uh and that the expiration companies uh may be time to take a quick look at your portfolio and make sure you uh um you know may maybe take some profits in those ones that uh that you don't really understand the story to. Well, let's talk about Dry and Gold, what you've accomplished in 2025, and what the plans are moving forward in this year. Let's start with 2025 recap before diving into future plans. You put out a press release last month with 2025 exploration and capital markets highlights. Could you walk us through those details? >> Um, you know, at Dragon, we have a a huge property. It's a district scale property, 70 over 70,000 hectares. And most of our focus has been in the go our gold rock camp which is an archan load gold system very similar to red lake see very high-grade gold there uh we're following up on it the the entire district has been very underexplored and u uh and and so we've been following up on some work that uh Manitou did the predecessor that we bought the property from and you But we have are growing that one area we call the gold rock target area with some very high-grade results. But also what we're find this year was uh you know some we had some breakthroughs on uh with the ge geological team and then we and we started hitting these just stack structures that last year we're in 2024 when we were drilling we thought it was a hanging well structure or a footwell structure to to the main veins and and shear zones but as we drilled more we found more and more of them stacked you know so we drilled one hole all the way across the Gold Rock target area and we hit nine of these structures at Red Lake. That this is where they it really became a mine is they didn't hit these stack structures till they got down about 300 m and and and they were mining down on really on on a single structure and then all of a sudden hit these hanging walls and it was one after another they had 10 of them there and that's now those didn't come to surface just like ours don't. So again, it's what it's it's done is expanded into what we thought were uh you know was about a kilometer square area with just one uh with three separate vein structures. It is now looking like it's just filling in with uh some very high-grade structures that don't come to surface. So, we're very excited about, you know, that the expanding Gold Rock um in that one target area, but we also want to show that we can find more of these areas in the Gold Rock camp. Again, similar to Red Lake where you had the the Red Lake mine, the Coconer mine and uh uh the Campbell mine uh Red Lake Campbell uh Coconer, you know, all within about a 8 kilometer strike. And so we had a target up north we called Mud Lake. And we went up there and made a new discovery. And uh what we what we're really excited about is getting back up there this year because what we found is that the sheer structure that we believe to be the aurora structure which this is 2 km north. Uh it actually bends up there. It folds and and at the apex of the fold. We couldn't drill there because of uh the permit didn't cover it. But where that sheer structure folds, we picked up surface samples as high as 3 ounces per ton. Several with an ounce per ton. So very excited to get back there. And we think we've got a new, you know, a new discovery there and and another red lake or another Gold Rock uh uh target area uh potential. And then on a district scale, we made discoveries at both Sheridan at the southern part of the property and Henman on the eastern part of the property. And what's interesting about um these is both Sheridan is an intrusive related and it's you know would be a lower grade bulk tonnage. Uh and uh so we're doing some follow-up work on that. I've got some results that are uh pending very quickly here on the followup there. And then at Henman, we did some channel sampling and got some very good results. So, we're we're drilling that off. Now, that's in yet a third deposit style that's in Granite Dyide, very similar to Nex Gold's uh Goldland deposit. Uh so while most of our focus in 2026 and going forward will be on that Gold Rock camp and the Gold Rock target area, you know, we're also very excited about these uh uh because our our strategic partners in Alamos and Cantara and other large companies that are watching us, they like the idea that this, you know, could be a district with several different deposit types similar to the Timmans uh camp. >> Well, walk us through in a little more detail your plans for 2026 and maybe highlight the main catalysts that shareholders of Dryen Gold can look forward to for the remainder of the year. >> Yeah, I look I I don't think uh you know we uh well we will continue to put let me say say 50% of our efforts into Gold Rock and of our uh budget. Now, we we did do a a nice raise about $7.8 million in in uh uh closed that in September in October. And then at the end of the year, we had some warrants exercised that raised about another 6 million. And then Santara did their top off and so we've got a couple million more coming in from that. So, we're very well funded for next year and we're projecting to do a minimum of 32,000 meters of drilling. That's on top of the 25,000 that we did this year. So, fully funded for that. As I say, we'll put we'll focus 50% on the Gold Rock area in that high-grade um archan load gold system. And we'll continue to work on Sheridan and Henman and propertywide, you know, following up on last year's uh soil tail program and stuff to identify uh other potential regional targets and also more targets within the Gold Rock camp that show that periods that we think Mud Lake is the first one, but we think we have like 20 kilometers of strike in that Gold Rock camp and and we think we'll find uh we've already identified one more. We're not really talking about it too much. We've got to do some mapping down there and some permitting to to really to do some drilling down there, but but uh we we should get to that this year. And uh you know, just again, we're growing something that's that's uh a district scale. Um, so, so I don't know that we'll get to the point of a resource at uh, the Gold Rock target area, but certainly we're going to get to the point of where the market's going to realize that back of the envelope, you know, th this is going to be could be a mine and a very high-grade mine. And because most of these stack structures in the Gold Rock target area are near surface, you know, and it's filling in so well with these structures stacked on top of each other that uh you know, we we think they're if this continues to uh to grow the way it had in 2026, uh it's going to show some open pit potential there too at at a pretty pretty nice high grade. again just like they started at uh the Campbell mine in Red Lake. >> Well, we've seen some pretty decent M&A activity in the gold mining sector in 2025. How do you see that evolving this year? And how is Dryen Gold thinking about that? Have you been having any conversations perhaps with partners such as Centara and Alamos or or other companies perhaps some majors about Dryen potentially being in acquired or perhaps partnering with a larger player, a merger? Um how are you thinking about that? Look, uh, our board is made up of people, we're all like-minded in the same thing is that, uh, uh, the exit strategy, the proper exit strategy to maximize return for shareholders is, uh, through M&A. you know, we we don't we don't want to spend 10 years uh with the same shareholders uh diluting them down while we go development development and you know and and move try and move this thing forward. So you know certainly we have Alamos is is one of our largest shareholders at about 11% now. Uh Cantara is meaning maintaining their 9.9% position. uh we've uh signed CAS and and and are working, you know, meeting with, let's say, other large players. Everybody's watching Driving Gold because not only is this it an underexplored district, but you know, the the infrastructure here is is incredible. I mean, we sit the the Transcan Highway intersects the northern part of our property and highway 502 drops from the town of Dryen through the middle of our property and then skirts it all the way on the east side going down to Fort Francis and International Falls, Minnesota. So, because of that and and that the access we have, the reason it's been so underexplored is because it was so densely forested. But with the paper mill the last 40 years of Pope Mill in Dryen actually probably longer than that you know they've done a lot of forestry Sheridan Henman were both clearcut the Gold Rock area has seen a lot of logging. We've got logging roads and access everywhere. I mean at where we're drilling at Sheridan, where we're drilling at Henman, you can drive a Toyota Camry in there uh on, you know, on mostly on the highway and then uh on some really good uh uh gravel logging roads. So we you know with a with our funding now I think uh you know this is the year we we we will uh really expand things and you know I think there will continue to be more M&A that the the major and mid-tier producing companies really got out of the expiration business in in the downturn in you know around 2015 161 17 in there. uh they not only gave up their uh their their early stage exploration properties uh but also they don't have the uh uh the early stage exploration geology teams. So, you know, the team we've putting together with Mora and Anna and Ryan Humphre now, uh, it's a very young team. Uh, I tell you, I I call it Gen Z mining. Uh, but it's, uh, uh, you know, that's another very big asset and why these strategic players are watching us. And we're running a program with Mora who you know with her experience at at Red Lake running the entire exploration team for at Red Lake for for four or five years uh and Anna working with her there. Uh they really know how to put a program together the way the majors want to see it. So, you know, we not only have the property, we have the team and we're putting a a we have an expiration strategy and and methodology and uh that uh is exactly what the uh major and mid-tier companies want to walk into and they love the idea that we have a large district scale play here. So for us, the idea of JVing anything out uh is probably not going to happen. As long as we can raise the money, we'll move these things along and uh strategically. Uh but uh you know, I certainly Cinta and Alamos don't want to see us bringing in a new partner that we JV one of the our properties off to. Uh but uh I I I I I think if if not later, you know, um certainly I think that 2027 will be a year where where I think it's very likely, you know, we have this thing pushed to the point where uh we we exit with an M&A uh transaction. >> I'll end as always by opening the floor to you. Is there anything we haven't yet covered? anything you think it's important to emphasize that you think potential shareholders of Dryen Gold should be focused on? >> No, I I actually I I think we've covered it all pretty well here. Uh I think that um you know again to uh uh keep keep in mind that you know we are working uh uh on on different properties here within the district. So, you know, where where you will the shareholders and and and uh investors will see high-grade results continue to come out of the Gold Rock camp at Sharon and Henman. Those are going to be longer term bulk tonnage kind of kind of projects. And uh we uh so, you know, all of our drill results aren't always going to be that high grade. And I think I think that's important for people to say, "Okay, well, where'd this come from?" But uh uh I I think uh uh I I think it's going to be a very exciting year. I think that uh you know, I I as I said, I I would caution everybody that the market seems to be a little frothy right now. So So be careful out there. and you know with Dryen or anything else you know don't buy it on the run buy it on the pullbacks and uh you know uh I think uh uh I think the good companies with good projects uh will u uh we'll we'll just continue to see appreciation in here. >> Great. Well, I'm going to put a link to the Dry and Gold website as well as social media so people can follow along with the company. That will be in the description below. Thank you once again, Trey. It's always a blast having you on. >> All right, Jesse. Listen, also also put a link there to my Substack. So, if anybody wants to go read my piece uh on the secular gold market uh secular gold market in gold, uh they can connect there and I'll be I'll be doing uh uh some more pieces on that diving a little deeper into it. So, uh you follow me there too as uh on on Substack. >> Absolutely. That link will also be in the description below and hopefully I'll see you at the VR. Will you be there? >> Yes, sir. I leave Wednesday. >> Excellent. >> Okay. >> Thanks, Jesse. >> Commodity Culture is a series on commodities and natural resources. If you would like to see more, be sure to subscribe and hit the bell notification so you're always up to date with the latest episodes.
Deficits, Debasement, and Big Money's Blessing: The 'Perfect Storm' for GOLD
Summary
Transcript
Hello everybody and welcome into commodity culture where we break down commodities markets all with the goal of making you a better investor in the commodities sector. My name is Jesse Day. Today is January 19th, 2026 and my guest today is the CEO of Dryen Gold, an exploration company focused on the discovery of high-grade gold mineralization in the Dryen Gold District of Ontario. It's Trey Waser. Always great to have you on the show. >> Hey Jesse, thanks for having me. And what a day to be chatting as gold reaching new all-time highs as we speak. Now, you recently published a fantastic article on your Substack titled, "The secular bull market in precious metals." I want to read a quote. You said, "Cyclical factors that have always affected gold prices combined with long-term structural events are merging in real time. They are converging on the world economies in tectonic fashion, creating a structural and fundamental background that supports a secular case for owning gold and silver for the foreseeable future. So, walk us through these cyclical factors and structural events and how they are combining to drive the gold market today. >> Sure, Jesse. The you know, secular markets are very rare. Uh I I you know as a as a young stock broker I I came in um started at Meil Lynch in 1982 when interest rates were 15% and uh you actually participated and and and witnessed a 40-year bull market in bonds and um you know again I think that's where we are in the precious metals market these days and you can just kind Look at these structurals. If you have noticed, some of the typical cyclical factors that historically have controlled precious metals prices have either broken down or they're being altered or overridden by some other factors. I mean, real interest rates are still still high and and and I I don't really think dropping at all. uh and and yet gold has risen in the last two years from 2000 to 4,700 about today, you know, and also gold's ridden in risen uh despite a strong stock market the last two years. I mean, these are two things that normally would uh uh restrict gold going up. So there but there are some long-term structural changes such as dd dollararization which we talk about a lot degalization institutional shifting of assets and techn technological advances that are having a direct impact on precious metal prices. So let's break it down a little bit. Dolorization has been a theme going on for the past decade, but it really accelerated in 2022 when we the US levied or the world really that leveraged sanctions on Russian assets. Uh you know the whole world took notice of that and central banks began to shift and really accelerate their uh their their move from US treasuries to gold. And now in 2025 and uh and and going into 2026, tariff policies are now exas exasperating that. U you have the BRICS nations are getting more comfortable trading amongst themselves in their own currencies. China is amassing a huge gold position to advance non-dollar trading even further. And now we see Japan as you know throwing in the towel on their zero interest rate policy. And uh so they're starting to repatriate capital as as uh you know the those dollars that have traditionally been in US treasuries can go home now and and and actually earn a decent return. Uh China and Japan were historically two of the largest buyers of of US treasuries. So now deglobalization is also really accelerating in driving gold prices. You know, geopolitics has always been a a factor in uh driving gold prices. Uh you you have a war breaks out and gold prices spike and then things settle down and most of those gains are are you know quickly given back. Uh and uh but geopolitics to politics today is different. You know, the war in Ukraine drags on the US now moving on Venezuela now now Greenland and then likely Cuba. You know, the Trump administration is clearly set on securing the Western Hemisphere, whatever that means. Uh and u you know, Iran is in turmoil and the Middle East landscaping is shifting. political strife within the US even is accelerating. Um so you you know and and immigration of course has has uh been a big factor in that that's um you know something that uh isn't just a US issue. Europe has their own u uh you know problems with with that as well. So, you know, at the and if you think about it in the in that bond market I talked about 40-year what we had in the in at the at the beginning of that and about the first dec within the first decade was the Berlin wall came down the Soviet Union you know this is all around ' 89 to 91 the Soviet Union broke up you know it was there was what George HW Bush called the peace dividend and it was exactly the opposite of that drove interest rates down now we have just the opposite and it's it's it's driving gold and precious metals higher. So, um that's uh you know the that that really I think is is are the two main themes to look at of that do not seem to be uh changing anytime soon. >> Well, you mentioned ddollarization, but you also wrote that we should beware of anyone calling for the collapse of the US dollar. This is a narrative we hear a lot out there, including from some guests on this show as well. Why in your view is the death of the dollar greatly exaggerated? >> Let me let me first say, Jesse, that I have tremendous respect for for all those out there that I called in my piece the gold pundits, of which I am one. You know, I read many of these them and consider many close friends and certainly business associates. Uh, you know, Rick Rule and Eric Sprat were instrumental in the success of my last company, Elie Gold Royalties. And Andy Sheckman is a close personal friend who I've done business with for over the last 15 years, stacking gold and silver. And on a daily basis, I subscribe and read Metals and Mining, QTR, Macro, Butler, uh, XRP, Manchester. Those are daily reads for me. And, and so I don't mean any disrespect. I think you know like me they have PMS precious metal strategy. So but but look this this is simply a case of arithmetic Jesse daily FX market transactions total 8 to9 trillion the US dollar makes up 90% of all daily FX transactions this this is all worldwide business commerce agriculture debt equity futures and trading uh central central bank activity, everything. So, one out of every 10 business transactions worldwide involve the US dollar. And to put this into perspective, in non-doll transllated transactions, the Chinese yuan trades about 850 billion, the euro trades about 700 billion, the yen trades about 650 billion. uh stable cone daily volume which you know while growing is last year was 122 billion. Um the value of of gold traded on a daily basis is estimated at about 350 billion but that includes futures trading which you know is and and ETFs physical gold is closer to 125 billion. So to replace the the US dollar or revert to a 100% gold standard would take about $300,000 gold prices. So a total collapse of the gold would just mean a total collapse of worldwide commerce as we know it. Uh there is no substitute here. Um >> for the for the US dollar, you mean right? >> For for the US dollar, right? I mean u it's there there's just nothing that comes close to being able to provide that kind of liquidity that it you know when again call it a reserve currency I'm not saying it's not going to devalue but you know it's uh derization can't really be be defined in my opinion as little by little then all at once. It's more like little by little, then a little bit more by a little bit more, then a little bit more than that. U and you know, it's it's it's it's going to you're going to continue to see the dollar uh other things work in, but as far as just all of a sudden we wake up one day and that the dollar has is is gone, can't happen. Well, talk to us about the shift in big money now moving towards the gold space and its implications for the market. You've spoken before about Basil 3 um banks front running the gold trade and Tether expanding its position in the gold markets uh gold market as well as gold back stable coins. Break this all down for us and what its implications are. Well, look, as I as I look at, you know, last year uh and you know, spectacular rise, 65% move in in the price of gold. And let me say when I talk about gold, I I I mean precious metals. I mean, silver is uh I I'll I'll say, you know, I don't I don't want to say gold and silver every time. And silver has its own uh additional stories, right? But I mean I really mean precious metals when I say gold. But but gold is is certainly the the the main thing that's going to be uh you know used at central banks and reserves and stuff. And so you know the the critical the the Basel 3 making gold a tier one liquid asset a high quality liquid asset. uh it which happened in July last year was a major uh happening uh it it did quite a few things for the gold market. I mean first of all you know it it now allows banks to put money uh their their reserve money into uh into gold and that's physical allocated gold not futures uh or other contracts. So consequently, what that did all at once is it made allocated gold more valuable and it made futures contracts riskier. And we're seeing the implications of that today as these paper the paper leverage on gold and silver are unwinding. Um and so look the they always say the banks know first and so you know the the US banks figured this out and you know they they started shifting their positions JP Morgan City Bank for sure uh you know covering their shorts. I mean JP Morgan's been fine before for manipulating gold prices using futures and you know there's there's I don't think there's any argument. It's certainly not with with anybody uh uh with PMS uh is uh uh you know going to going to deny that the futures market and the heavy leverage there has been used to suppress gold uh and precious metal prices for for decades. JP Morgan was fine for doing it more than once uh as were other large banks. But JP that you know the US banks got the message and they covered and went long. They started taking physical delivery of of gold and silver. They happened to have you know JP Morgan's vault. Most people don't realize this in New York is actually connected to the Comx vault. So people didn't know if it was which vault it was actually going to when when all that silver was shipped over. U and so that once once they got positioned um then all of a sudden you started to see you know the beginnings of the of the short squeeze and uh you know that that the the and and and suddenly the banks started raising their targets for gold. they started then we had JP or Morgan Stanley, Mike Wilson come out and change the allocation for gold. Uh actually you know the uh JP Morgan started putting people into gold late 24 early 25 knowing what was going on here. So that allocation has already shifted. And so now with these new allocations uh you have uh you know even uh even the passive investing accounts are starting are are adding fuel to the gold fire and and on top of that now as a high quality liquid asset that's also drives investment decisions for your uh insurance companies and their reserve accounts. uh also for uh sovereign and uh endowment funds and these funds they take a while to change their investment strategy you know they something like this happens like Basel 3 they don't just jump and say okay we're going to start buying gold like the banks can they have to have committees and consultants and meetings and you know it takes them about a year usually to make a big uh change in their investment policy policy. So I I think you know we're just seeing the start of that and uh uh you know I think that uh you know again this this is uh institutional in a secular bull market you know your first phase uh generally does not involve big institutional buying and so but you do need to have it to support a long-term secular bull market. So now we're starting to really see it come in with with these allocations. And of course then Tether, you know, with uh in the stable coin market, I do not really believe that stable coin tokenization is something that's going to take really change uh uh the the the gold landscape uh in the near term. uh the problem with tokenization it might be okay for stocks which which are just a promise of a company anyway and some other assets but uh with gold uh you know it's just another it's just another paper contract really uh might be digital and and uh and I I think uh I I maybe make too much light of it but I think you have counterparty risk when you know in tokenization however it's the stable coin market is a great business for Tether and they're very profitable and they're very interested in owning gold and have not only amassed a huge position in the gold market. I think they're, you know, one of the the largest independent owner of of gold now in one in little little over a year maybe. Uh they're certainly in the top 25 30 of all and that includes all the central banks. They're the size of a central bank of how much gold they they're they have uh amassed and you know they you know they also have a small gold token uh fund uh which they I I nobody knows exactly what their their game plan is but we've seen them now buying up royalty companies or u you know at least two and I think they're they're in the hunt for looking for more um and um you I I don't I don't think it's unreasonable to think that, you know, they they their their large almost 190 billion dollar u dollar stable coin uh that has to invest in US treasuries. Their their gold fund is uh only a couple billion. But uh could they start moving some of that money, converting it? Uh, I don't think I don't think the unbanked and emerging countries and and some of the nefarious uh holders of of their dollar stable coin would care as long as it they could find a way to keep gold at or keep the gold fund at a dollar or at a stable price, right? >> Let's shift to the gold mining sector and dried in gold. Uh, how do you currently see gold mining equities positioned? And as the CEO of Dryen, what are the biggest tailwinds and greatest challenges ahead in 2026 for the industry and maybe uh work in how Dryen Gold fits into the picture as well? >> Well, let's just talk about the sector in general first and uh and then talk about dry and what we accomplished in 25 and and what our goals are for 26. But you know, Rick Rule did a piece just recently and uh you know uh he he he said that uh in his entire career he has never seen the mining sector uh trickle down as as quickly. In other words, you know, when you have a big move in the price of gold, the major companies move first, then the second tier, and then the developers, and then it spills down into the explorers. uh in 2025 it happened all at once and I can tell you from my experience at Dryden we go every year to the Beaver Creek uh precious metals conference and that's probably it's in it's in September it's it's widely attended uh certainly by all the institutional players buyers and it's really where you go to raise money if you're a a a junior mining company u it And we went there in 23 and with Dryen, you know, for for several reasons. We were in 23 and 24 when we were in Beaver Creek, we were able to raise money in a market when nobody else could. There were a few other companies that were getting checks written, but mostly for two years there, it was long faces and um and not many checks being written. Now 2025 that completely changed. Uh now we had raised money uh prior to Beaver Creek. So we weren't there with our handout but uh everybody was getting money. And today I know talking with a banker in in Toronto last week. They did three bought deals in one week uh in the junior mining sector. So let me tell you while I think the fundamentals for the major companies and that's is what Rick was pointing out is that that now everybody's able to get money the money's you know probably going it's being probably a lot misallocated. I think some of these current deals are being done, you know, with a half a warrant, a full warrant. And I I think they're more going to hedge funds and warrant clippers than into into strong hands. Like uh you know, when we did our deal this last fall, we didn't have to have to put a a warrant on it at all. And the stronger companies are are finding that or were. But so we'll see. right now. I I agree with Rick that the the major companies are probably under undervalued in general because of their good fundamentals. Uh and that the expiration companies uh may be time to take a quick look at your portfolio and make sure you uh um you know may maybe take some profits in those ones that uh that you don't really understand the story to. Well, let's talk about Dry and Gold, what you've accomplished in 2025, and what the plans are moving forward in this year. Let's start with 2025 recap before diving into future plans. You put out a press release last month with 2025 exploration and capital markets highlights. Could you walk us through those details? >> Um, you know, at Dragon, we have a a huge property. It's a district scale property, 70 over 70,000 hectares. And most of our focus has been in the go our gold rock camp which is an archan load gold system very similar to red lake see very high-grade gold there uh we're following up on it the the entire district has been very underexplored and u uh and and so we've been following up on some work that uh Manitou did the predecessor that we bought the property from and you But we have are growing that one area we call the gold rock target area with some very high-grade results. But also what we're find this year was uh you know some we had some breakthroughs on uh with the ge geological team and then we and we started hitting these just stack structures that last year we're in 2024 when we were drilling we thought it was a hanging well structure or a footwell structure to to the main veins and and shear zones but as we drilled more we found more and more of them stacked you know so we drilled one hole all the way across the Gold Rock target area and we hit nine of these structures at Red Lake. That this is where they it really became a mine is they didn't hit these stack structures till they got down about 300 m and and and they were mining down on really on on a single structure and then all of a sudden hit these hanging walls and it was one after another they had 10 of them there and that's now those didn't come to surface just like ours don't. So again, it's what it's it's done is expanded into what we thought were uh you know was about a kilometer square area with just one uh with three separate vein structures. It is now looking like it's just filling in with uh some very high-grade structures that don't come to surface. So, we're very excited about, you know, that the expanding Gold Rock um in that one target area, but we also want to show that we can find more of these areas in the Gold Rock camp. Again, similar to Red Lake where you had the the Red Lake mine, the Coconer mine and uh uh the Campbell mine uh Red Lake Campbell uh Coconer, you know, all within about a 8 kilometer strike. And so we had a target up north we called Mud Lake. And we went up there and made a new discovery. And uh what we what we're really excited about is getting back up there this year because what we found is that the sheer structure that we believe to be the aurora structure which this is 2 km north. Uh it actually bends up there. It folds and and at the apex of the fold. We couldn't drill there because of uh the permit didn't cover it. But where that sheer structure folds, we picked up surface samples as high as 3 ounces per ton. Several with an ounce per ton. So very excited to get back there. And we think we've got a new, you know, a new discovery there and and another red lake or another Gold Rock uh uh target area uh potential. And then on a district scale, we made discoveries at both Sheridan at the southern part of the property and Henman on the eastern part of the property. And what's interesting about um these is both Sheridan is an intrusive related and it's you know would be a lower grade bulk tonnage. Uh and uh so we're doing some follow-up work on that. I've got some results that are uh pending very quickly here on the followup there. And then at Henman, we did some channel sampling and got some very good results. So, we're we're drilling that off. Now, that's in yet a third deposit style that's in Granite Dyide, very similar to Nex Gold's uh Goldland deposit. Uh so while most of our focus in 2026 and going forward will be on that Gold Rock camp and the Gold Rock target area, you know, we're also very excited about these uh uh because our our strategic partners in Alamos and Cantara and other large companies that are watching us, they like the idea that this, you know, could be a district with several different deposit types similar to the Timmans uh camp. >> Well, walk us through in a little more detail your plans for 2026 and maybe highlight the main catalysts that shareholders of Dryen Gold can look forward to for the remainder of the year. >> Yeah, I look I I don't think uh you know we uh well we will continue to put let me say say 50% of our efforts into Gold Rock and of our uh budget. Now, we we did do a a nice raise about $7.8 million in in uh uh closed that in September in October. And then at the end of the year, we had some warrants exercised that raised about another 6 million. And then Santara did their top off and so we've got a couple million more coming in from that. So, we're very well funded for next year and we're projecting to do a minimum of 32,000 meters of drilling. That's on top of the 25,000 that we did this year. So, fully funded for that. As I say, we'll put we'll focus 50% on the Gold Rock area in that high-grade um archan load gold system. And we'll continue to work on Sheridan and Henman and propertywide, you know, following up on last year's uh soil tail program and stuff to identify uh other potential regional targets and also more targets within the Gold Rock camp that show that periods that we think Mud Lake is the first one, but we think we have like 20 kilometers of strike in that Gold Rock camp and and we think we'll find uh we've already identified one more. We're not really talking about it too much. We've got to do some mapping down there and some permitting to to really to do some drilling down there, but but uh we we should get to that this year. And uh you know, just again, we're growing something that's that's uh a district scale. Um, so, so I don't know that we'll get to the point of a resource at uh, the Gold Rock target area, but certainly we're going to get to the point of where the market's going to realize that back of the envelope, you know, th this is going to be could be a mine and a very high-grade mine. And because most of these stack structures in the Gold Rock target area are near surface, you know, and it's filling in so well with these structures stacked on top of each other that uh you know, we we think they're if this continues to uh to grow the way it had in 2026, uh it's going to show some open pit potential there too at at a pretty pretty nice high grade. again just like they started at uh the Campbell mine in Red Lake. >> Well, we've seen some pretty decent M&A activity in the gold mining sector in 2025. How do you see that evolving this year? And how is Dryen Gold thinking about that? Have you been having any conversations perhaps with partners such as Centara and Alamos or or other companies perhaps some majors about Dryen potentially being in acquired or perhaps partnering with a larger player, a merger? Um how are you thinking about that? Look, uh, our board is made up of people, we're all like-minded in the same thing is that, uh, uh, the exit strategy, the proper exit strategy to maximize return for shareholders is, uh, through M&A. you know, we we don't we don't want to spend 10 years uh with the same shareholders uh diluting them down while we go development development and you know and and move try and move this thing forward. So you know certainly we have Alamos is is one of our largest shareholders at about 11% now. Uh Cantara is meaning maintaining their 9.9% position. uh we've uh signed CAS and and and are working, you know, meeting with, let's say, other large players. Everybody's watching Driving Gold because not only is this it an underexplored district, but you know, the the infrastructure here is is incredible. I mean, we sit the the Transcan Highway intersects the northern part of our property and highway 502 drops from the town of Dryen through the middle of our property and then skirts it all the way on the east side going down to Fort Francis and International Falls, Minnesota. So, because of that and and that the access we have, the reason it's been so underexplored is because it was so densely forested. But with the paper mill the last 40 years of Pope Mill in Dryen actually probably longer than that you know they've done a lot of forestry Sheridan Henman were both clearcut the Gold Rock area has seen a lot of logging. We've got logging roads and access everywhere. I mean at where we're drilling at Sheridan, where we're drilling at Henman, you can drive a Toyota Camry in there uh on, you know, on mostly on the highway and then uh on some really good uh uh gravel logging roads. So we you know with a with our funding now I think uh you know this is the year we we we will uh really expand things and you know I think there will continue to be more M&A that the the major and mid-tier producing companies really got out of the expiration business in in the downturn in you know around 2015 161 17 in there. uh they not only gave up their uh their their early stage exploration properties uh but also they don't have the uh uh the early stage exploration geology teams. So, you know, the team we've putting together with Mora and Anna and Ryan Humphre now, uh, it's a very young team. Uh, I tell you, I I call it Gen Z mining. Uh, but it's, uh, uh, you know, that's another very big asset and why these strategic players are watching us. And we're running a program with Mora who you know with her experience at at Red Lake running the entire exploration team for at Red Lake for for four or five years uh and Anna working with her there. Uh they really know how to put a program together the way the majors want to see it. So, you know, we not only have the property, we have the team and we're putting a a we have an expiration strategy and and methodology and uh that uh is exactly what the uh major and mid-tier companies want to walk into and they love the idea that we have a large district scale play here. So for us, the idea of JVing anything out uh is probably not going to happen. As long as we can raise the money, we'll move these things along and uh strategically. Uh but uh you know, I certainly Cinta and Alamos don't want to see us bringing in a new partner that we JV one of the our properties off to. Uh but uh I I I I I think if if not later, you know, um certainly I think that 2027 will be a year where where I think it's very likely, you know, we have this thing pushed to the point where uh we we exit with an M&A uh transaction. >> I'll end as always by opening the floor to you. Is there anything we haven't yet covered? anything you think it's important to emphasize that you think potential shareholders of Dryen Gold should be focused on? >> No, I I actually I I think we've covered it all pretty well here. Uh I think that um you know again to uh uh keep keep in mind that you know we are working uh uh on on different properties here within the district. So, you know, where where you will the shareholders and and and uh investors will see high-grade results continue to come out of the Gold Rock camp at Sharon and Henman. Those are going to be longer term bulk tonnage kind of kind of projects. And uh we uh so, you know, all of our drill results aren't always going to be that high grade. And I think I think that's important for people to say, "Okay, well, where'd this come from?" But uh uh I I think uh uh I I think it's going to be a very exciting year. I think that uh you know, I I as I said, I I would caution everybody that the market seems to be a little frothy right now. So So be careful out there. and you know with Dryen or anything else you know don't buy it on the run buy it on the pullbacks and uh you know uh I think uh uh I think the good companies with good projects uh will u uh we'll we'll just continue to see appreciation in here. >> Great. Well, I'm going to put a link to the Dry and Gold website as well as social media so people can follow along with the company. That will be in the description below. Thank you once again, Trey. It's always a blast having you on. >> All right, Jesse. Listen, also also put a link there to my Substack. So, if anybody wants to go read my piece uh on the secular gold market uh secular gold market in gold, uh they can connect there and I'll be I'll be doing uh uh some more pieces on that diving a little deeper into it. So, uh you follow me there too as uh on on Substack. >> Absolutely. That link will also be in the description below and hopefully I'll see you at the VR. Will you be there? >> Yes, sir. I leave Wednesday. >> Excellent. >> Okay. >> Thanks, Jesse. >> Commodity Culture is a series on commodities and natural resources. If you would like to see more, be sure to subscribe and hit the bell notification so you're always up to date with the latest episodes.