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Kai Hoffmann, Founder and Managing Director for Soar Financial Partners, explains why gold prices are rising, how institutional ...
Transcript:
world peace is off the table. What What else is there? The US debt situation is not going away. We got $340 trillion in global debt. U central banks are still buying gold because they don't believe in the swift system anymore. We might see a massive monetary change. 3,600 people will start demand higher wages at some point, right? And that is starting to creep in. And as long as the gold price keeps rising, that shouldn't be a problem. So, where are investors putting their money right now? Which mining sub sector is gaining most traction? [Applause] [Music] Kai Hoffman joins us here at the Precious Metals Summit in Beaver Creek, Colorado. He is the founder of Sore Financial Group and uh we'll be talking about his outlook for the precious metals commodities complex and what's going on right now with the mining sector when it comes to financing and M&A activity. Welcome to the show. Good to see you here in person. David, great. Thanks for having me on. Really appreciate it. Yeah, I really appreciate your time. Your Orin Inc. index is the industry standard for tracking financing activity and this is you're the perfect person to talk to about this. I'm wondering what's going on right now with gold at $3,600. It doesn't feel like 2011. I wasn't around in the industry in 2011, but I, you know, I've been reading about what happened then. People have been telling me about what happened then. It just doesn't seem like the same sentiment even though this bull market is substantially more pronounced when it comes to the magnitude of the price movement. Absolutely. So 2011 was an absolutely insane year when it also came to financing. Just the frothiness was was crazy, way overdone. Of course, $8 billion raised roughly within our coverage universe. We're only sitting at only at $4 billion right now. 2024 in total, we raised $4.2 billion within our coverage universe. So we're already pretty much on par with what we saw last year. And that is just financings below $100 million in equity. We've seen a lot bigger financings as well. Tether investing another hundred million US dollars into EMX or Elemental Alta's royalties as part of the transaction. We don't even cover that part. So, we're way past what we've seen in 2024 already. We're not going to reach 8 billion this year. I think we're still missing sort of the generalist investor. The the overall euphoria, the tide has fortunately not lifted all boats yet and uh we're but we're seeing positive moves here and we're moving towards frothy levels. You're saying the generalist investor hasn't come into the space yet? They're they're looking at it. Well, who's been pushing the price up to $3,600 and and also the GDX up 90% year to day? Who's been doing? You're seeing more institutions coming. So, you're you're hearing financing is like, oh, the Franklin Temples of the world, they're writing checks. These companies, they're seeing inflows. That is great. But it's the institutions that are allocating right now. It's not the the private investor that is directly coming into the private placements, opening brokerage accounts or so. Although I do see warning signs, friends of mine are starting to ask me about mining stocks and stock tips. So, I'm starting to get a little worried when it comes to that. But it's mostly institutional with the professionals. It's us that have opened the wallet again. And but we're seeing positive momentum. It is changing that that that is a time and uh old indicator that transcends time. When you're at a dinner party and your friends ask you, should I buy gold? Then it's probably time to sell. I'm I'm half kidding. So on the institutional front, I know that institutions have a mandate to hold well certain institutions have a mandate to hold uh their positions only up to a certain allocation. In other words, if it grows too big past a certain allocation limit for that particular asset class, they have to take profits. Is that what is about to happen? I think we're seeing part of that already. We've seen it last week before the jobs report. There were two two three weaker days in the market on gold, but also in the miners where people are just secure their positions. Maybe they're hedging a little bit, taking some of the money off the table. Not the worst strategy, quite honestly, if you're up 100% like in Numon. If you're up 110% year to date, nothing wrong with taking some profits off the table ahead of some uncertainty. Uh that makes a lot of sense. Um, but of course when the positions start to double, you got to slowly start to sell in it. Almost sounds like a Ponzi scheme, but you got to find somebody to buy it from you afterwards uh to keep the stock price going and to keep the momentum. Yeah. What's your reaction to gold moving up alongside stocks and Bitcoin this year in a year where the Fed is not printing money uh to the same extent as 2020, which is the last time we saw all three assets move up to new alltime highs together. I'm I'm excited about gold moving. It's a massive move, of course, maybe a bit too too too aggressive almost, but again, momentum, that's what it comes down to. People are jumping into it now. We're at 3650 as we speak. A lot of factors going into it. You discuss it at at Nauseium on your program as well. Geopolitics, debt situation, weaker dollar and and just overall sentiment towards gold and precious metal, central banks buying around the globe. So nothing new that I can add to the discussion here. But all those factors combined have just moved so much. And now we're seeing ETF buying again as well as of August. I think uh World Gold Council just reported August we've finally seen some inflows again into the ETFs in North America and Europe. Asia surprisingly selling a little bit but that is positive as well. So there's a lot of factors that just added together and it's really difficult to come up with a bare case for gold right now. I'm I'm I'm I'm just scratching my head as a market commentator as to why gold has moved alongside stocks and Bitcoin like you mentioned debt situation getting worse. the $35 trillion of debt now being laughed at by the Russians on Twitter I saw and uh and and uncertainty around policy the DXY has been declining all year 10ear yield um has been slowing down in terms of the steeping of the yield curve so all these factors but they're not new right so you know why now is my question especially at a time when there's so much job uncertainty stocks are still going up you just you you you kind of step back and wonder why everything's kind of moving up together no it's interesting like I was recently at a at a gold depository and they buy and sell gold and silver from uh from retail investors and they've actually seen more they had to buy more gold and silver from their clients than they were selling in August which is an interesting indicator could be a recession warning it could be people just taking profits cuz they bought during co they bought a lot of physical at at say $20 an ounce and now they're selling at 40 so then easy double for them but um going up alongside stocks there's a liquidity thing as well going on like we had a lot of liquidity in the market some of that has shifted to gold but um it's just that blowoff off top that we're in. Like bad news is good news for gold and the stock market. So QE is great for the stock market cuz that means cheaper money to invest and yields uh you know you can make easier returns, but it's also means that the lower lower interest rates also is great for gold cuz we all know gold doesn't yield anything per se. So it is it works really well in tandem. How has your financing um tracker explained this huge upward surge in the GDX index all of a sudden this year? remember how it was trailing behind gold uh all throughout 2024 lagging kind of just moving sideways and then just all of a sudden shot up in a straight line up 90% year to date like I mentioned what happened I think the the penny finally dropped with some of the institutions that we're seeing massive margin expansion uh on the producer side I mentioned Newmont up 110% year to date that margin is almost $2,000 right now uh and people are starting to understand that free cash flow yield is crazy around 15 18% for those companies that's unheard of in in any other sector any other industry. PE ratio or PNAF ratios are still extremely cheap in comparison to other um industries. And now we're seeing that sector shift like we're starting to see uh investors allocating more towards GDX. GDXJ is still lagging behind by the way, but has not as moved as quickly. GDX is at an all-time high right now. Actually, GDXJ still lagging. So, it's mostly the ma the bigger producers, the royalty companies that are doing really really well. Um but it is the the margin expansion that has finally the penalty has finally dropped especially after the Q results. I personally saw a bit of a momentum pick up and then of course Jackson Hole was right around the same time that added extra fuel to the the rally fire here. Well, I've heard from people talking to me that the cycle usually is bullions move first, major producers move second, and then the juniors follow. Is that what's going on now? It's exactly what is happening right now. So, we're starting to see the developers start to move, the mid-tier producers are moving, and some of the junior explorers are moving. We're seeing a lot of money raised by companies that maybe should not be raising capital, but that's what's happening. We're seeing that money flow down. It's not the grassroots explorers are still having a harder time. So that means that the rally hasn't reached them yet. So we're not in the final stages of it yet. So the tight, as I mentioned earlier, hasn't lifted all boats yet. Uh but it is trickling down and we're seeing that effect. Help me understand this. So let's say gold moves to $3,000, which it did earlier this year from $1,600, $1,800 not too long ago, like 18 months ago. Immediately after this 80% move, what you should in theory see is a complete revaluation of the junior miners with deposits that maybe previously had a nav based on $1,600 gold that should be $3,000 now, but that didn't happen. Why not? It's a mindset thing. Like, it's a mentality. I'm I'm I'm a victim of that myself cuz I look at share price and say, "Oh, this is starting to get expensive." Or I look at new deals that are coming on the market and I think, "Okay, this should be priced at 5 million, not 20 million." So, we have to accept a new price at some point, but it takes a minute cuz we've all been in bare markets and we're just victim of that bare market and the mentality is just screwed. Meaning, we have to just accept higher prices at some point and jump in cuz there's still opportunity. So, people didn't believe the $2,2500 gold was there to stay when it first hit. Yeah, that is part of it as well cuz the margins didn't expand. The margins actually shrunk when you look at it at 1300. the new margins were roughly the same for New Pneumont at $1,300 gold than they were at $2,400 gold. Cuz last year when gold was starting to move up really substantially, you would think that the higher beta juniors would move first before the producers. In theory, that didn't happen. I was scratching my head thinking, what's going on? People just hate the juniors now in 2024. It's just a lack of trust as well, right? We didn't believe it. Um the margins didn't prove to be consistent at that point even for the higher mar for the smaller the higher optionality plays. people didn't believe it and it took until like this year until a new president in the White House, a lot more uncertainty, a lot more geopolitical conflict to really push us in that direction, of course. And that's what we're seeing now. It's been reality starting to set in. Um, of course, margins, in my opinion, will start to shrink slowly again because prices will move up. Every producer, if you look at or every service provider that works with the producers looks at the gold price, say, "Wait a second, you're making $3,600 here, but I'm only charging UX. I'm going to start increasing my prices." Oil can't be staying at $60 a barrel for, you know, forever. So that'll eventually add on to the margin. What's the biggest cost item for producers? Energy. Energy and people, right? So $3,600 people will start demand higher wages at some point, right? And that is starting to creep in. And as long as the gold price keeps rising, that shouldn't be a problem. But we'll see higher all in sustaining cost. And the the wage increase is that happening just in North America or is that happening also in South America, West Africa as well? Well, it'll happen across the board, across the globe. People are looking at the gold price on their phone on a daily basis, right? So they they know what's going on. If you look at it's like, wait a second, we're making $3,600 an ounce here, but I'm still being paid the same like when it was at 1,600, people will start to demand higher wages, we'll just see a bit of a margin compression. Nothing too bad, nothing out of the ordinary, unless gold, uh, sorry, oil completely explodes, driving prices higher there. But, uh, if gold price should be, you know, continuing to move up, well, what do you think is going to happen to gold? Uh, do you think 30,000 is here to stay or is this an ephemeral push up? It is very tough to come up with a bare case for gold. Of course, global recession fears could push glo gold a little lower if we see really an impact there. But what could change the the thesis here is world peace. Don't see that happening. We've just seen Russia and Poland clash last night. Um world peace is off the table. What what else is there? The US debt situation is not going away. We got $340 trillion in global debt. U central banks are still buying gold cuz they don't believe in the Swift system anymore. We might see a massive monetary change. Please, like in the comments maybe down below, let me know what the case is here. But I'm really having a hard time for it. There's certain like recession stackflation indicators like if the market tanks all of a sudden gold will also be hit. But that'll be temporary. Maybe not a bare case, but maybe a capital rotation. Let's suppose central banks or governments were buying gold because they want to hedge against dollar hedge money. Uh they could in theory or they don't want their assets confiscated by the US as what was seen with Russia a couple years ago. They could in theory just put their their currency on the blockchain, create their own stable coin and not have to buy gold to protect their own sovereignty. That could be an option. Well, gold needs to be stored somewhere and they need to have access to it to just lend credibility to what they're doing, right? So, is it China? Is it anybody else? Is it Russia is using silver? Who knows? Why do you think central banks have been stockpiling gold? Because it's the only tangible asset that can't be taken away that's a true store value. It's not Bitcoin. It's not anything else. They can't just buy farmland in the US and and bank against it. That just doesn't work. It's the only real money. Okay. So, going back to the miners, what are the miners doing right now with $3,600 gold? What are the new months and barracks doing with all this cash that they have on their balance sheet? Not enough. Not enough. I'm hoping to see more like not really hoping for dividends, but dividend yield is like 2%. Really negligible in my opinion cuz I'm more of a growth investor, but I want to see more M&A like at this level. Well, the paper like we just had that conversation yesterday here in a meeting like has a PNAF of 1.6. So that means the paper is really richly valued. They should use their paper and currency to start acquiring more assets, really start filling that pipeline and start building more on growth and to just buy up some of the cheaper producers that haven't maybe moved up as much that have a cheaper PA still and I think that's massive opportunity. Tech being acquired by Anglo is a bit of out of left field. Didn't expect that to happen during the precious metals conference or Denver gold week next week, but I hear IM Gold and others are in play as well. Cot mine is highly desired. So, I'm really curious to see more M&A in that space. Yeah. Uh, Anglo and Tech merged just this week like you mentioned, the second largest mining deal ever, I think. What does this mean for the mid tiers? Are we going to start seeing M&A trickle down to the mid tiers? Not yet. Uh I'm hoping it triggers something, but what I'm looking at is tech is invested into a lot of explorers and they have like $300 million I believe in exploration uh investments. Curious what that means after that merger. How are they going to behave? They're invested in some copper belts now in Idaho and other places. Um so I'm curious what the fallout will be cuz Anglo has been fairly passive on that front. So I'm curious what their strategy is going to be moving forward. I haven't had a chance to listen to the uh the analyst call or so. I'm not sure if it was asked on the call. So I'm waiting for some information to trickle out in that front because that will have massive impact for what we're doing here, right? And what about the well acquisition of smaller companies, but what about green field brownfield exploration? Should that be something that's u you know priority for pneumont? One one thing I've been wondering is like a lot of those big companies like Numont, Bareric, they they price their reserve still at $1,600 an ounce, meaning all the calculations they've done for their reserve base around that level. They haven't adjusted those prices. So if they were to do that and it's different for every asset of course it's to generalize is tricky but if they were to say repric to 24 $2500 gold how many more ounces do they have on their books now that they can realize so do they really have to do M&A or is that just adjusting by price uh enough to sort of keep the pipeline full and to keep the minds going and maybe extend mine life just by doing that the junior miners have risen a lot as well you said the GDXJ hasn't caught up as well but individual miners have you know I've seen 70% 80% 90% % year-to- date increases. Are those valuation rises justified given that they don't produce anything? Yes and no. The problem is like the tight lift all boat so a lot of goes are up as well. Pardon my pardon my French here but uh it it always happens. Uh yes, it is justified cuz we've been capital starved for the longest time. It is now way more interesting to raise capital at these levels. Companies can actually generate catalysts and move those catalysts along. So we're seeing a lot of that. I'm really happy to see companies that have certain like let's say $100 million valuation buy a new asset and raise $300 million based on that purchase. I like seeing that because that generates value that builds a new bigger better company and that's something the market happily supports. We've seen Discovery Silver do that buying the Porcupine District off of Pneumont um while they had the silver asset just completely transforming the company. But I want to see more of those deals and I think we will and I hope that this is the the the trend the industry is going. I'm wondering if financing activity picks up or goes down when gold shoots up. In theory, a good investor should be handing out checks when gold is lower, right? Not the other way around. So, what what what does the data show actually? So, back to personal anecdote, like why didn't my friend text me when gold was at 1800 asking me about gold? And I think that's you can just use that across the board as an example. You chase momentum, you all of a sudden gold hits the news. I listened to a a rock radio station just randomly the other day and caught the end of the news the news segment and they were talking about gold out at an all-time high. That doesn't happen at 1,800. They don't talk about market moves. Now the attention is on. It's always happens. People chase momentum. They always buy at the top. Uh we're I don't think we're near a top yet. So people still have an opportunity, but somebody's got a top. So you're say financing activity has picked up dramatically. Yeah, financing activity has picked up. I think we'll have a very solid 2026 if nothing happens to the gold price. momentum is here to stay and people are just starting to get used to higher prices. Who's asking for the financing more, the juniors or the mid tiers with the seniors? Uh the juniors of course because they've been capital starved. They do want to they do want to drill. It's the juniors and the explorers. That's for me the the grassroots explorers. So what are they doing with this cash? Hopefully drill hopefully drill. Not just use it for GNA, but really generate those catalyst that we want to see like what's the use of proceeds. We're going to create a feasibility study. So perfect that creates value for investors. Don't just buy something that raises or a company that tries to raise 2 million. You can't do anything with that money. You can barely do some geohysics. Maybe you can put a couple cheap drill holes down, but you're not going to change the the story of the company and you're adding a lot of value. Does the volume of drilling with the I guess um the frequency of drilling uh increase with more money? Like does that does that actually really puts out some great statistics? I haven't seen an update on that yet. So, I'm curious um what what that will look like. But I'm hearing the labs are already more backed up than they were last year. So, you're already seeing that trickle down. The turnaround time is a bit slower than it was last year, four 6 weeks instead of like 3 weeks that we've seen before. And and that is a that's a normal course. We we'll see watch major drilling, see how their share price is doing. Um and you can immediately track how the sector is. So now that the market has digested higher prices, what can investors expect in 2026 and perhaps even well let's just stick to 2026 for now. What's going to be different next year with the gold sector versus this year? I think we're going to see stable margins cuz like I'm I'm assuming gold will stay around 36 $3,500 gold. So I'm assuming stable margins maybe actually margins decrease just a little and I'm being overly negative here. Um but we're still seeing the market trying to understand the margin expansion that we've seen. So we're still catching up. Q2 was a $3,300 gold roughly uh weighted. We'll see again higher prices uh on the average uh for Q3. Where are we at? Probably 3,500 at volume weighted average price here for gold, which is absolutely phenomenal. That's another $200 on top the margins we've seen last quarter. And that will trickle down into the share prices. Margin expansion is the key here. And that will somewhat continue. I think it will stabilize though unless we see a massive event in gold. That'll push it maybe to $4,000 or $4,500. But I'm quite happy with where we're at. Like I'm sorry to sound greedy here or overly negative, but I'm happy with where we're at. Going back to your or index, is it a leading indicator sometimes for price appreciation? In other words, what comes first? Higher prices for the industry or more finance activity. It's lagging. It's absolutely lagging. Although it's also seasonal. It's a sentiment. Um but it is lagging in general. Higher gold prices triggers more investment. Uh gold is always leading uh the other sectors as well. even silver and copper to a degree. Uh you can pick up some trends like in lithium, uranium, you can see more of those deals pick up, but there's usually something that happened on the macro side that triggered that. So now that gold's run up a lot, do you expect silver and copper and some of the other metals to start catching up? Is that going to be are we going to start seeing capital rotation into other metals? Yeah, copper is still digesting the shock that we've seen from the tariffs impact. Uh it dropped 25% in a day. We're slowly creeping out of that hole. Uh silver has done okay although it's struggling to break out of that resistance at $42. It is stuck there. Uh it has some catching up to do. Actually gold silver ratio is increasing ever so slightly uh as we speak right now. Uh sitting around 80 88 1.5. Um gold has been outperforming. Silver I think is still slowly or still attached to the industrial demand. Still 50% of that is industrial. So maybe that is holding it back uh versus gold right now. But year-to- date performance has also been stellar. But it hasn't outperformed gold. Yeah. and silver miners. Any changes there for strategy, financing, uh, M&A? Well, any company that has silver in the name right now is raising cash left, right, and center. So, there's a lot of excitement. $42 is fantastic. All in sustaining cost for the producers around 22 or so. Uh, massive margins and just there's not enough good projects in the silver space to finance. So, that money is, you know, you're trying to squeeze a camel through a back, what was it? What's the saying? Trying to squeeze a camel through the needle, top of the needle, whatever that I have to I'd have to revisit that. I have to go look at Okay, I understand what you mean. Yeah. You think with the AI trend booming right now, uh copper, zinc companies, base metal companies will be exploding in interest. Is that what's happening? Uh copper is coming back and the US is really interesting place right now. You got to watch what the White House is saying. Rotinto BHP just had meetings about 10 days ago with the president. So I have yet to see a statement in that regard like what they're going to do. May the discussion was around the resolution mine in Arizona. So if that gets resolved or they get the permit or the presidential go ahead to to overrule everything that'll have a massive impact on the copper space on the copper stocks. There's an Ivanho electric Arizona sonor and that are also in Arizona that are moving ahead. Projects in Alaska are also projects you need to watch in that regard when it comes to copper cuz once the signal out of the white houses go then those stocks will rally. The Pentagon has made investments in pre not precious metals but uh critical minerals and lithium companies as well. Uh so that space, let's talk about that space. Potentially more government intervention, nationalization, whatever you want to call it. Uh it's it's interesting what they're doing. They need to they're way behind the curve. Like China's got them beaten by at least 10, 15, 20 years when it comes to just the supply chain. They've been investing in Africa and other places or building up uh the infrastructure to actually uh work work with the supply. They have work, refine the minerals. We don't have that in the West cuz we we were happy to push that away and let others handle that. Now we're trying to catch up. Of course, you're seeing massive grants by the now the Department of War uh being issued to to certain companies, MP Materials. Um you got to be a little careful cuz those comp those departments, they're not mining savvy. They don't know this industry and there's definitely some scumbags around that will take advantage of that. So, I hope the money doesn't get burnt, but it's government money. What do you mean take advantage of that? Well, all of a sudden, every project has antimony in it, right? If you might have noticed, if you look at headlines and all of a sudden antimony is the big thing trying to attract money. Yeah. Um, so you got to be a little careful with that when it comes to those statements. Um, that's what I mean by that. But is that a sector that you think I know has most potential right now you're looking at? I'm not looking at it at all. Um, cuz it's very heavily influenced pricing wise based on what China is doing. Um, I've been burnt maybe too many times. I I love missing opportunities like that sometimes. Uh but I sleep very well cuz the price fluctuations especially in lithium rare earths are too much to to to fathom. Uh and there's not enough players to seriously invest in. Yeah, you can write a trend but you don't need to under 100 companies that are listed on the CSC or a venture uh to sort of chase the same trend. Uh you got to be careful when you play this. You got to know when to sell. Everyone knows well I I I presume the government knows that China still has most of the smelting capacity in the world when it comes to copper refining. And so given that the west are so far behind on smelting and refining, it's not enough to simply change policy to make it easier to permit mines or drill. You've got to change the entire ecosystem. That will take many many years. You got to change mindset as well in the US. Like you go to certain places, there's just constant NGO interactions uh that that are preventing even just exploration programs. And if the US really wants to sort of establish itself, it's got to find a way around that. Not me. Not saying that we should cut corners on the environmental side, but that needs to be established. There are certain places that just need to be resurrected and like resolution is the perfect example. If that happens, we're starting to move in the right direction. Yeah. Well, one common theme I've been hearing, especially on the copper front, is the supply deficit that's going to continue to grow in the future as demand picks up and it's going to be hard to catch up with the supply as we talked about earlier. Is that is that a theme that you're following? Do you agree with that thesis first of all? Yeah, but it keeps being pushed down every year. you know, you get a new statistic always like, okay, the the supply demand crunch is going to come next year. It's always next year. It's like free beer tomorrow, right? Uh you'll never get the free beer because it's always tomorrow. Um so like I'm a bit skeptical, but I see the trends, right? If it is tomorrow or the day after, that's fine. Um you you see that we need more copper if we're pushing the electrification of everything. Like even just the AI boom needs a lot of copper like you mentioned. So I think the trend is intact. It just always takes a bit longer than we all anticipate. and uh like the EV phase out or the phase out of IC internal combustion engines is not going to happen by 2030. It's 2026 pretty much already and we're not seeing that. So everything takes a bit longer than we all predict. Uh but it it is the right trend. So where are investors putting their money right now? Which mining sub sector is gaining most traction? Uh I think we're starting to see money trickle down to the mid tiers. Uh that is happening. The junior producers mid tiers of which metal? Uh gold. Gold. Okay. So there are not many silver mid tiers. They've already been moving. Those are all major producers to a degree. Uh it's the mier gold producers. We've seen the royalty companies move. The big producers have been moving like Newmont 110%. And now it's starting to move down to the mid-tier producers. Some of the optionality plays. Some companies that have all in sustaining cost of $3,000. Um every dollar matters to them. So they have massive percentage increases on margin. They're starting to move. They're they've got some massive leverage. Uh that's what we're seeing right now. And an exploration plays get rewards or get rewarded when they come up with good results. And that's positive. And if you had to take a gamble as to which sector would perform the best next year, what would it be? Still the gold miners. I think I'm still keen on that. The gold mid tiers. The mid tiers. Yeah, the developers mid tiers would be my preferred bet. That's what we're buying in the fund right now. That's where we're allocating capital. A lot of projects that will be coming sort of in from the moving out of the bottom of the lant curve going into that development cycle starting to raise construction capital like you know Cisco development just did. Troyless gold is just doing that as well. They're just moving up that lant curve. So that's where I see the most upside for the next 12 months. How would you evaluate the risk return profile of the juniors given uh price appreciation so far? It comes back to the mindset. I think you need to I need I personally also need to readjust my mindset when it comes to that cuz I still have bare market prices in mind. We've seen inflation for a lack of better term when it comes to pricing levels. Like I mentioned when a project used to come on market or pre-market 5 million valuation before it came online. Now we might have to get used to $20 million instead of five. And that's sort of the mindset. I need to work on that and it's really difficult to figure that one out but you need to look at the catalyst who's running it do they have enough cash and then you need to assert whether the valuation of X is appropriate all right thanks very much appreciate your time where can we follow your work Kai yeah follow me on X uh junior mining guys probably the best way to do that I'm on LinkedIn feel free to reach out and uh yeah just reach out to comment thanks very much Kai to see you in person thank you so much thank you for watching don't forget to stay tuned for more coverage of Beaver Creek and we'll see you next
