Description:
Stablecoins, Psychedelics, and Crypto's Next Decade Speakers: Zaheer Ebtikar, Christian Angermayer This is a panel from DAS ...
Transcript:
Thanks everyone for joining. Um, it's been a fun time getting everyone back from Singapore and into London and great to see a lot of faces in my new hometown. Christian, thank you so much for taking time out of your busy schedule to be here with us. Um, I'm sure the the audience will love what you have to say and all the updates in your very crazy, very lovely life. Um, but let's start off with the biggest topic that kind of stands out on this whole panel, which is psychedelics. Great. Everyone here wants to know about psychedelics and what you think about them. Um, we know that you're involved with a Thai. We know that you have, you know, and the stock has done really, really well this year. What is the new admin in the US been thinking about when it comes to psychedelics? Okay, so first of all, welcome everybody. Thanks for thanks for having us. for the ones who who don't know because the buzzword psychedelics I guess in the crypto world it's I would say hopefully 99% positive but like just mentioning like technically psychedelics are still illegal what we are working on with a company uh I founded a Thai so we recreated almost 10 years ago now it was a long journey all the intellectual property and patents around these substances you know them as like magic mushrooms which active ingredient is psilocybin a new version of ketamine, a new version of MDMA, DMT, 5me DMT with the aim to bring it back as a medical treatment uh into the medical world. So fully regulated, fully um yeah and hopefully next year. So psilocybin is the closest and then the others coming the years after. So hopefully starting from end next year you will be able in the US first but then Europe uh following in other countries to go to your doctor and have a psychedelic therapy with them and then practically after go home. So that's what I think is the right thing to do. That doesn't mean obviously if you do it on the weekend uh I can tell you as a scientist uh it's much less uh risky at all. that actually psychedelics do not have toxicity uh than if you take alcohol which is the worst recreational drug of all like if anybody wants to take one thing away from this session is like go to your mobile after uh and Google David not he's a very famous uh very good friend of mine here in the UK neuroscientist and he did a study like more than 10 years ago where he took all the recreational drugs people are taking on the weekend from alcohol to crack to psilocybin uh and for the first time really made a risk assessment because like we colloquially meaning all of you are or most of you I guess are trading whatever crypto or whatever like you have an understanding of risk meaning actually the last three days we all we all got an even better understanding of risk and leverage whatever but we don't have that for recreational drugs like we're talking like oh what is riskier alcohol so just that you get a sense for what you might do on the weekend look up that chart Yeah, it's undisputed. Lancet um published. So he did a very comprehensive analysis of what is actually the risk of taking recreational drugs. And the outcome is that alcohol by far is the most risky recreational drug. Actually even riskier than heroin which is the number two. And then when you look on the chart, so on the left side you have all the the bad stuff and the rest actually everything we think is bad is bad. But then on the very left on the very right you have all the psychedelics which practically uh zero risk. Yeah. The only risk with psychedelics is that you might have an accident because you're kind of not able to drive a car or whatever but there is no toxicity for your body anyway. So if you do it on a weekend, yeah, at least know that positively they might be better. But we are focusing on the medical use because what they do they have the potential to cure all the mental health issues like depression, anxiety, addiction and so on. And how did you even get into the universe of you know psychedelics? I mean you come from a very kind of prolific background as an investor and you know kind of being known across the globe you know with your connections and how did you get to arrive to the point where you're like I need to spend a lot of time on but exactly like what I told you guys now is here's what because I was so I have never tried any other drug I didn't even try alcohol so far for the simple reason I was always very happy I don't think I'm dumb so already in high school I was like I don't think I I think I really have the genetic checkpot with my brain And also I think it was education or like education bringing upbringing with my parents. They always gave me confidence whatever. So I always thought like something is very right up there. So don't jinx it. So till now like I didn't try anything like I didn't try alcohol. I didn't try weed. Yeah. Because I didn't want to do anything. I I started drinking coffee actually with 30 only because even I thought coffee could do something which it doesn't but like I was a little bit nerdy. So, but I was at a dinner uh in 2013 where I sat next to the co-author of the study I just told you of the book. Um and so friends had told him ah you can maybe loosen Christian up to to drink a little bit of alcohol tonight. And I was like not going to happen like but um and then I asked him I was like look let's go like I'm an investor uh and as an investor you see the world uh as upside and downside. I was like let's go through all the drugs. I want to know why do people take heroin like there must be something like yeah but what's the downside and then maybe let's forget about legality for a second I told him like maybe then I decide oh this is the one drug which where the upside for me is worth the downside and I can tell you by the way if you look scientifically on drugs none of the bad stuff but especially not alcohol is worth the downside even if you get a little bit of upside and then at the end of the evening he was like look the only drug or the only group of let's call it a better medications which you should look at and should try out uh are psychedelics and this was a completely different time like now we can talk here on stage there is a Netflix show about our work yeah and psychedelics kind of have arrived like actually like last week I read a study like that people are really luckily stopped drinking alcohol and doing more the the good stuff but back then psychedelics were like literally seen as worse than heroin which they still on paper on paper which gonna change next year but on paper they still rate it as a schedule one drug while for example heroin is a schedule two drug right yeah so and this but the perception in 2013 was like worse than heroin so I was like oh my god no luckily he was very persistent he sent me the research all these uh psychedelics have been actually used as medications in the 50s and 60s so and because one out next to crypto one of our other big topics in a pyon on is biotech. I was able to read these studies. I was like, "Look, this is amazing." Yeah. And then one year later, I tried it myself. It was hands down the best most meaningful and important thing in my entire life I've ever done. And then this was sort of the kickstart to say, okay, we need to bring it back somehow. I didn't even know how like and I thought for a while, should we go the same route than cannabis and more work on it politically? And then I had one meeting with the FDA in 2016 which was really interesting because like I said, "Oh my god, FDA, they're going to be against everything." But they sat there and were like, "Look, we know these medications work." By the way, they do cure depression, anxiety, addiction. They actually, I think that's going to be the next wave. They have much more potential also to prevent neurodeenerative diseases like Alzheimer's, dementia. they actually can give people and by the way there's one big thing I'm because I always try to make it sort of useful yeah whoever here is over 30 like if if you think about neurodeenerative diseases then you think about Alzheimer dementia whatever which comes like 75 80 but already at the age of 30 your brain starts aging every year a bit and it kind of takes away a lot of properties which are associated with a young brain like uh creativity problem solving ability the ability to look at sort of things with a with a in a novel perspective whatever which is by the way exactly what you guys want like if you're investing or whatever or in a in a in a fastmoving sector you actually want to have exactly that properties but unfortunately age 30 yeah they go down every year and psychedelics for example uh rejuvenate your brain and you go back into sort of the the also the ability and sort of the characteristics of a younger brain anyway all of that these FDA guys were recognizing and they said, "Look, you have two choices. You either go down the political route uh and try to make psychedelics legal. We're going to throw you in jail like Timothy Liry, or you go down the medical route, do it with us, uh, and we're going to be fully supportive." And that was then the start of I was obviously taking the medical route. Yeah. With this very, very direct advice. Um, and that was the start of a tie. And now we're we're almost done. And you know, the Trump admin has changed a lot of things. You know, we'll talk about stable coins very shortly, but they've changed a lot for psychedelics in particular. What's been the real change that you've seen in the last year? The thing is like I have to say since we started and it was practically uh Trump admin, Biden admin Trump admin, the FDA was always very supportive. So I cannot say the FDA was not supportive under Biden. So this was a consistent and I'm very very happy about that. The good thing with the the the second Trump administration is that they are outspokenly on the political level pro- psychedelics which takes a little bit the the worry of investors away. Oh, are they? So, actually I told everybody again since 10 years the FDA is supportive but because it's so novel and so edgy um some people were worried that the FDA might not. Yeah. But they are. But now RFK for example is publicly saying it which helps a lot. Right. And I guess on theme of you know what the Trump admin has changed quite a bit. One of the topics of today's conversation is also about stable coins. You're very publicly you know um aligned with plasma as an investor and adviser to the team. You know how do you think about what the Trump admin changes have been with regards to stable coins and you know more specifically with plasma. So I don't need to tell that crowd here like uh obviously the government or the the new admin. not new anymore anyway is is is very pro crypto anyway. Um but I think it's more I think people don't give um the administration enough credit how much they think things through. Like everybody thinks oh Trump is supportive of crypto because the crypto industry supported him. Yeah. And it's definitely a part of it and I think it was very smart uh of us to do that. But like if you look at the challenges the US faces and especially uh when you look at the challenges the treasury is facing they need a dollarization of the world right. Yeah. And the only way to do it is stable coins. So if you go back um they actually had the hope like between like November and February um that they could cut a lot with Doge. By the way, maybe they get it now with the the government shutdown, but at least when it comes to Doge, they had to accept and sort of the change in the administration, Scott, whatever was like in February roundabout when they realized the US is not able to cut its budget because that's where even the senators and the congressmen of the Republican ones said to Trump, look, that's where our support ends if you if you try to go into our our gravy train, which is very sad. But I think the US cannot sort of stop spending. So but if you if you accept that then what so they need to print money. So and they need to debase their currency against assets. The problem what they what they see and by the way this is not my theory they all friends. So I that's what they very openly talking about and by the way you see it in all the tweets of Trump whatever is like the problem is if you go down a a sort of debasement of your of your uh currency strategy and printing money the accidential thing sort of the unintended side effect is that the wealth gap is becoming bigger right so investors all the rich people will become massively richer and that is a societal sort explosive problem. So it's not again I think the media always cuts Trump or is way too simplifying. They're like ah he wants to make his friends richer. He doesn't. They actually are very very worried about the wealth gap. That's why on the other side they focusing the big thing will be actually affordable housing and stuff like that. But it's unfortunately the side effect of what they have to do to survive. So if you if you accept that what is the next step? You actually want that your people, so the American citizens, not just the rich people, but like as many American citizens as possible own assets and not the dollar. Uh that's by the way why Trump just changed the the regulation that what is he called in in America 410 41k like these retirement whatever they can now buy Bitcoin, private equity, whatever. Again, the media wrongly said, "Oh, he's doing that to pump the stuff." He's actually doing that because they know yeah the worst an American citizen can have directly and in the pension plan whatever is actually the dollar. So they want to get their people out of the dollar but the problem is at the same time somebody needs to buy the dollar right. So and that is the people in emerging markets whatever which you reach via stable coin. So stable coins are again not just a nice thing to have but coming to the conclusion they are the one thing the US government has as kind of a distribution mechanism to make sure the dollars they're going to print are as much as possible not in the hands of their own citizens but in the hand of emerging market whatever people by the way and for them it's still a win situation because it's still better to own the dollar and not the naira or any other shitcoin like sort of it's kind of a win-win. It's the truth. Um, you're a prolific investor globally. So, it's not just localized to western markets. You have investments across, you know, almost every continent. How are you thinking about these local markets and their dollarization efforts via stable coins? Well, I think the US will go as far in the next three years to try to convince numerous of these countries to just completely abolish their own currency and completely dollarize. I think and that's going to be uh an even bigger boost for stable coins than we can because at the moment it's still like if you go to Nigeria it's still kind of illegal. people obviously do it nevertheless but like I think the Trump administration will push at least to make it legal if not telling Nigeria you know what why don't you completely dollarize your economy by the way here's the political package we give you we give you protection we give you investments whatever so they will try to really dollarize not just at the moment they dollarizing the world through the back door and I think they're going to soon make it very very official to say look country X if you if If you dollarize and if you abolish your own currency, that's the positive package we give you. And again, stable coins will be the the rail and obviously then for stable coins, it's plasma will be the rail to make that happen. Yeah, that's that I mean, this is a similar conversation I had with Paulo at um token Dubai um you know where he basically was was very much mentioning the same thing which is stable coins will be the number one conduit. USDT is already the you know largest kind of most liquid stable coin in the world and these markets already are demanding this product very openly. Um moving to you know kind of one topic that that we skipped over a little bit but one that I know is very dear to your heart. Um we talk about psychedelics we talk about enhancements in general. One of your big kind of in investments and also you know business ventures has been enhanced games or as you like to call it the the steroid Olympics. I don't call it like the press. I like to call it handscape, but maybe more the colloquial term, right? Um, how are you thinking about this? How are you thinking about the next landscape for enhanced humans in general? Well, so so so maybe like because a lot of people always asking like what is sort of the connecting thread or whatever to all of that. First of all, meaning it's very simple like I really just like to build things and invest things which I'm really passionate about. I always thought like when I had my first exit, why would I do anything boring in life if I don't have to? But also like I think the one of the common connecting threats is actually freedom. Because if you if you look at stable coins, Bitcoin the same, but especially stable coins, they give people who are kind of enslaved by their own government with these shitcoins or currencies like Naira, whatever. No, it's like you think like these like they they make like I don't know $100 in emerging markets. Yeah. Then they pay taxes. Yeah. And then the government takes another 50% per year if not more by just defending. This is like actually if you think about it like I I read that somewhere slavery in in Rome might have been a nicer thing because like they gave the people at least food and shelter whatever if you look at Nigeria. Yeah. They they they take at the end they take if the ones who can't escape the currency they going to taking away everything. So I think sort of really stable coins uh and bitcoin the same like any form of escape. Yeah. um uh is and we maybe can't even fully comprehend it but I did a lot of business in Africa. I used to own commercial banks there. We can't comprehend how much big of a freedom um that is for those people to be able to escape sort of this this really this grip this negative grip uh of the government. Yeah. The same the same though for psychedelics like what what is the the relation psychedelics of freedom? The one sentence is like everybody wants to be happy. What is the biggest hurdle? What is the biggest hold back for us in our own happiness? It's actually our ego because like if you if you think it through and by the way can't go into because the time is running out but like yeah there are great books about it but your real like sort of hold back in your life is your ego which is not the only thing you're composed about. So what do psychedelics do for four hours the medical mechanism is they reduce the part or then if they're strong enough they shut down the part in your brain which creates your ego. Uh and then for people who haven't done psychedelics, they might say now, "Oh my god, who am I?" When sort of my ego, my sense of self is gone. But every single person, we treated more than thousand people um in clinical studies come out of it and say, "Well, there is something else right there." Like you might call it your subconsciousness, you might call it your soul. Yeah, I'm I'm very on the spiritual side, but there is something more which is actually the part or of yourself at the end which can give you a healing but also help you lead a very sort of self um uh self-structured a very uh good life. Yeah. And again like so psychedelics in terms of freedom give you give you the the freedom of your own ego. And then last sentence to enhance games you all need to put it in your calendar. Uh it's 24th May next year, Memorial Day weekend in Las Vegas, what are we doing? It's practically like the Olympics, just that it's fair and transparent because in the Olympics run about 44% of all athletes secretly do what is called doping. So we allow performance enhancing. Yeah. We want to be out uh in the open. So, and we want to show at the enhanced games what can the human body do with the help of science like and actually be a very positive example how people can escape aging. We're going to have 40 years old who hopefully break world records. Yeah. And again, how they can lead a more um self controlled uh life. So, at the end I'm very libertarian. People should be within means Yeah. allowed whatever they want to do. Awesome. Christian, thank you so much for joining. Thank you guys.
