Bob Moriarty: Gold, Silver, Fuel, Food — Protect Yourself Now
Summary
Precious Metals Cycle: Guest argues we are in the early innings for gold, with gold stocks described as absurdly cheap relative to other assets.
Physical Metals as Insurance: Emphasizes holding physical gold and silver as insurance against financial chaos, using mining equities for upside.
Inflation Risk: Warns of potential hyperinflation driven by fiscal excess and rising energy costs that push up prices across the economy.
Energy as Catalyst: Sees an energy crisis and possible oil shock as key catalysts for the next move in precious metals, with high fuel costs squeezing miners.
Silver Outlook: Notes silver’s extreme volatility but strong industrial demand (solar/electronics) and potential future shortages supporting prices.
Positioning & Liquidity: Prefers cash and liquid commodity exposures to cherry-pick resource stocks as funds sell; highlights the importance of liquidity given market stress.
Geopolitics & Shift East: Expects power to shift toward China and the Global South, with potential moves toward a gold-backed system impacting Western assets.
Transcript
I'm Charlotte McLeod with investingnews.com and here today with me is Bob Moriarty, publisher of 321gold. Thank you so much for being here for the very first time. It's great to have you. Well, it's a genuine pleasure and I'm embarrassed to admit it, but I never seen your website. I went to your website and my only question was, why is she hiding this? Well, I promise I'm not trying to to hide it. I'm so glad you found it and and hopefully maybe some more people will will take a look after this, but it's great to have you as well. I was I was I was telling you I was looking at your website getting ready for this interview. I think it's a great resource as well. And of course, where I want to start today is with gold and since it is our first time talking, I thought we could take a step back and look at where gold is in the cycle right now. Of course, it's been an exciting year getting up to all-time highs. Now we're in a pullback, but there's a lot of interesting things going on in the world. So, where would you place this in the cycle for gold? We are in the very very very early stages of the game. The the woman singer has finished the start starts bang bang or and everybody's about to go out and and start playing baseball, but we are so early in this game. Some of the things scare me. I mean, the run-up to $5,000 gold, that was breathtaking and unfortunately, it scares me because it suggests the rest of the financial system is about to crater. But here's where we are basically. I wrote a piece on April 25th of 2011 and that was the very day silver hit its peak. And I said beware of parabolic moves. Parabolic moves always end in disaster. And [snorts] we we had a giant correction after the parabolic move, but the fact of the matter is it was a relatively small correction. It was a quick correction, but it was a short correction. We've we've had a couple of months for the market to digest what's going on and I think we're about to go into the first inning of the game. If you look at gold stocks compared to everything else, gold stocks are just simply absurdly cheap. There is a lot of There's a lot of investors who are asking three bucks. So, the the funds are actually having to sell shares. They did this in 2001, they did this in 2008, they did this in 2015 and every single time it was an incredible opportunity. So, I I'm incredibly optimistic even though I personally would not buy gold at this price because I was buying gold at 260, 270, 300. I was loading up the boat with silver when it was below $4.5. Now, I'm going to explain something and and nobody ever does this. I don't know why they do it. Every investor is different. Every investor is a different age, they have different resources, they have different objectives. The way I look at gold and silver is the metals metals of physical metals are insurance policies against financial chaos. I don't buy gold and silver to make money. If I want to make money, I buy the resource stocks where you get the magnification effect. So, I I think we're in extraordinary time and given all of the insanity of the war in Iran, and I spent 20 months in Vietnam, so you have a pretty good idea what war is like. Very bad things could happen and if investors have not taken actions to protect themselves, they they could be in a world of hurt. So, for you, just to clarify, you're not buying gold, but it's because you already have the gold that you need for protection right now. So, for those who who don't have it or they don't have have enough, now is still a good time to be buying gold and silver. Well, here's why. Do you have a car? Yes. Do you have insurance on the car? Yes. Do you want to collect on the insurance? Yeah, if something if something bad happens. Yeah, but basically, you don't want anything bad happen. The ideal situation is which you have insurance, but you never have to use it. So, I I got gold and silver and I bought it for over 25 years and I hope I never have to use it, but it's just an insurance policy. Now, if an investor has some resources and takes a look the very dangerous things that are happening with the repo market, with the stock market, with the AI, with lithium, there's so many things that could end badly. I I think it's a mistake for people not to own an insurance policy. So, while I wouldn't buy gold at 4,700, doesn't mean other people should. You should have something in your hands that you know you could pay for a loaf of bread or some gasoline or something else. People We're we're in a transition that started with Christopher Columbus in 1492. And in in the next 30 years, incredible amounts of wealth were found in Central and South America and that all flowed to Europe. In 1492, Europe was a It was not the center of the world, but after all this money flowed into Europe, it became the center. Well, now we're in a transition and the power is shifting to the east and it's shifting to the south. So, bad things could happen. So, it's a good idea to own some gold, it's a good idea to own some silver, but if you want to make money, you want to be buying resource stocks. Absolutely. We've we've got a number of different directions that I want to follow you down and I I want to go back though to gold being in or about to go into the first inning. I think a lot of people after the price action that we saw earlier this year and now what we're seeing with the pullback in gold and silver prices, they're wondering what will kick off the next move higher for precious metals, especially because I think a lot of people were thinking, all right, a war has started, that should push the prices higher. Instead, we've we've continued in this lower area of price. So, what do you think is the catalyst for the next move higher in gold and silver? The price of a gallon of gasoline. Okay. I went through the Arab oil embargo in 1973 and 6.5 million barrels of oil were taken off the market. Now, they weren't taken off the market in terms of blowing up a refinery, they were taken off because the Arabs just shut the taps. So, when everybody was happy, all I had to do is turn the tap back on. But the price of a barrel of oil went from $3 a barrel to $20 a barrel virtually overnight. Now, the amazing thing to me in this so much worse in every measure than 1973 or 1979, I am absolutely staggered to drive by a a gas station and not see a line 2 mi long. We pay $13 US a gallon for diesel in Europe and they're in France. And the strange thing is people drive still drive in their cars around, they're not filling their car up, they're not standing in line. One day soon, they're going to realize say, wait a minute, this is very serious and we need to do something. Now, you're associated with the mining business. You know how important the cost of energy is to to mining companies. It's a substantial part and it's probably gone from uh 25% of the total cost to 40% of the total cost. So, it's a very very very dangerous time and it's a time that investors need to wake up and they need to protect themselves. That's another direction I wanted to go in. I wanted to talk about the the overall direction of inflation. Of course, it's looking like it's going to go much higher, But, especially for for the mining companies, because you're talking about That's how you you would want to make money in this sector. But, I've seen a lot of questions from our audience about the the costs for the mining companies rising in this scenario. So, how how are you working that out in your head? Uh this is my opinion. And when you do an interview with anyone, I don't care what their credentials are, they're just giving you their opinion. When I saw silver go from 30 bucks to 121 bucks, and saw gold go from under 3,000 to over 5,000, that suggested to me we're about to go into hyperinflation. Now, the United States is run I don't know a nice way to put this. The United States is run by a bunch of lunatics, period. And the United States is bankrupt. And once the world recognizes the United States is bankrupt, I I think we could very easily go into hyperinflation. Now, the cost of energy is going to drive the price of everything up. It's going to drive the price of fertilizer up. It's going to drive the the price of helium up. It's going to drive the price of urea up. It's going to drive the price of food up, because all of the inputs to make food. So, we're scary time. Food still going to be produced, but it's going to cost more money. Gold, silver, lithium, platinum, palladium, copper, lead, zinc are still going to be produced, but it's going to cost more to produce it. So, almost inevitably, the prices of those metals are going to have to go up. So, we could easily have hyperinflation. It sounds like we're heading into a pretty bad situation. And so, hyperinflation, I wonder if you can talk a little bit more about how that could play out in the US. I've been asking a lot of questions lately about the Federal Reserve, because we have a new Fed chair coming in. There's all of that going on. But, it sounds like the the problems are just much larger scope than that. So, how how do you see it playing out? Okay. Trump was elected president to lower the cost of government. And the cost of the Department of Defense at the time was just under 1 trillion dollars. Now, he is saying, a year and a half into administration, increase by 40%. I've had people ask me, how could he do that? What are we going to spend the money on? And I said, I'm not that smart. I don't know. I don't know how you increase your budget 40% in 1 year. I I think uh the United States government is in hands of fools. The Iran war was totally insane. To not back out of them is totally insane. And only bad things can happen as a result. Uh prices are going to absolutely go up. People are going to starve. People are going to freeze. What has happened already is catastrophic. And once you go past uh 60 days, we're 40 days into this goofy war. Once you go past past 60 days, it it's going to be a totally out of control catastrophe. What's most amazing to me is most people don't see it. I think that's true. So, so 60 days, that's the the cutoff point when we get toward that that point of no return from what we're facing here? Right. But, every single day makes things worse, because [snorts] there more and more and more and more shortages. And the mere fact that nobody understands it, nobody's in any kind of panic. If there was ever a time to panic, it would be now. Why why do you think that is? I know that's a a big question, but there's all these massive movements going on in the world. Why why do you think people aren't reacting more strongly right now? I don't know. That's a brilliant question, and I'm not smart enough to answer. I just simply don't know. I don't understand it. When the war started, I talked to every close neighbor I had. I said, get down to the fuel station, load up with fuel, and and fill your car. And I had stored I used kerosene heaters. I live in a little tiny mill house. I used kerosene heaters, so I had a half a dozen empty 5-gallon containers, and I gave them to my friends. And And the amazing thing is, they go down to the gas station, no waiting, no line. But, the price of diesel has gone from 1.65 1 year old 65 pounds in France to 2 euros 25. So, you've got about a 25-30% increase. Nobody cares. I'm sitting here >> [laughter] >> and wait a minute, you know, when when your your costs when your input goes up 30% a year, you got a problem. And I'll give you a perfect example. We can guarantee interest rates are going to have to go higher. And if the DOD budget goes to 1.4 trillion, the interest rate paid is going to have to go up to 1.4, 1.5 trillion. We're blowing our financial system up. Strangely enough, I'm one of the very few guys who've been predicting this. I've been saying for years that the system of the West has one foot on a banana peel and another foot on the grave. I I was buying gold, cuz I saw this 25 years ago. Well, and maybe we talk a little bit more about how you're preparing right now. So, you've got gold and silver. It sounds like you are having fuel that you've gathered around. What else can people do to be preparing for for what's coming right now? Well, we can guarantee there's going to be shortages of food, and we can guarantee the cost of food is going to be much higher. Here is the argument that I use when I'm talking to people. Give me a number. How much do you spend on food for your family daily? Well, daily, I could give you I could give you monthly, maybe like $500. Okay. That's That's a good number. What is the difference between buying the food now and buying it over the next 6 months? Nothing, exactly. Yeah. It's the same thing. It's food. You're going to eat the food anyway. Unless telling you go out and get something that's perishable. If you bought food and stored it now, you're going to have food. We don't know how bad things are going to get. But, having been in the service for 6 years and in war for 20 months, wars are really easy to start, and they're really hard to end. And being prepared just makes sense. And the strange thing is, in the next 6 months, you're going to spend $30,000 on food. So, whether you spend it next week, or whether you spend it over the next 6 months, doesn't make any difference. I got 6 months food here. Because, okay, I I eat food. Now, that I bought the food, I I know it's going to be cheaper. And I've seen some price increases in food already that that scare me. But, food's going to go into scarcity. Diesel fuel transports everything in our society. Where do you physically live? Vancouver. Okay. The distance from San Francisco to New York is about 2,500 miles. The average food in the United States travels 2,800 miles. Okay. And we have no idea of how important energy is to the cost of food. It's not only growing it, it's it's cutting it, it's planting it, and it's cutting it down, it's packaging it, and it's shipping to grocery stores that that adds up. So, we're in for a very dangerous time. Certainly, and and please don't talk to me about the government. I I am an equal opportunity anarchist. I despise all governments equally. And uh the government's doing nothing except making things worse. And I'm not going to criticize Canada, because Donald Trump actually makes Canada look quite sane. Well, I'll ask you Maybe I ask you about oil prices. We've been talking about how high energy prices could go. We've already seen such price volatility in oil. How how high ultimately do you think oil prices could go? Okay, here's the deal. And here's a honest answer and a fair answer. When people panic, they panic. I'm not sure what it would take to wake people up, but one day soon everybody's going to wake up at exactly the same time. You're you're too young to remember this, but back during the '60s, Johnny Carson was the most famous night host, and everybody listened to Johnny Carson, I think from 10:00 until 11:00 at night. And Johnny Carson gets on one night and says, "You know, there's a toilet paper shortage in the United States." Now, when when you went to the store the next day to buy toilet paper, what did you find? Probably none or not very much. None? None? >> Yeah. He created a shortage just by saying there's shortage. Well, there wasn't any shortage, okay? And there actually is a shortage of oil, okay? Absolutely. Uh Canada and the United States are relatively protected because Canada produces a lot of uh energy and the United States produces a lot of energy. But but frankly, Canada has a continuous border with a country run by idiots, >> [snorts] >> okay? Who are who are doing everything possible wrong. Uh people need to be planting victory gardens. People need to be reducing the speed limit. People need to be taking uh >> [snorts] >> precautions because costs are going to go up dramatically. The government's not doing anything. They're going to wait for people to discover, "Hey, wait a minute. You know, I was paying 1 and a quarter for days last week, and now I'm paying four." Where could the price go? Well, in 1973, with a relatively minor cut in the oil production, prices went up 300%. There is a east-west pipeline in Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia typically exports oil through the Strait of Hormuz, because that's blocked off first by the Iranians and then the second by Donald Trump. They have an alternative called the east-west pipeline, and they're now shipping 7 million barrels a day through the east-west pipeline. The single most effective military force in the Middle East, wears cowls on their head and sandals, and that would be the Houthis. And the Houthis actually shut down a major Israeli port. Now, how they did it is totally beyond me. I don't know. But the Houthis control the exit from the Red Sea. So, Saudi Arabia is planning on exporting fuel through the Red Sea, but that's 7 million barrels. If that gets taken off the market, then all of a sudden we're talking about a shortage of 27 million barrels or about 25% of the world's supply. There are things There should be a worldwide peace conference right now to sit down and figure out what's going on and who started it and what we need to do to end it, because if it's going to end badly. It definitely seems like we're heading in that direction, and I asked about oil prices partially because I see people in our audience wondering, "All right, well, is now a good time for me to invest in oil companies or producers?" That kind of thing. And I wonder your thoughts on that. Is it Is that a good idea? Or should people more focus on on having the fuel for themselves at the moment? Okay, uh that's a very fair question. And my personal uh investment criteria, I want to hold a fair bit of cash. I I see the funds unloading shares because of redemptions, and [snorts] I I want to cherry-pick really nice stocks, and I see a lot of stocks that I consider very cheap. But the problem is when when you need money to go buy a stock, you need it some kind of liquid form. So, what I have done for the last 6 weeks is kept some money in a Brent ETF, which is a pure bet on the price of Brent oil, and the Sprott Silver ETF. And the advantage to those is they're extremely liquid. I got stocks where I've [snorts] got, say, $100,000 or $200,000 in one stock, but it would take a month to sell it. So, I I got stock, and it looks like I'm worth a lot of money, but I'm not worth a lot of money because it's not liquid. But the Brent ETF and the Sprott Silver ETF, those are so liquid, I could sell 20 or 30 or 50,000 dollars of those in a one phone call. So, I I never really answered your question, but I'm going to give you some numbers. If people get really stupid, you could see $200 a barrel, you could see $300 a barrel, you could see $400 a barrel. All depends on how stupid they get. The war is stupid. Nobody is trying to end it. It It gets more absurd every day. I've done interviews in which by the time I finished the interview, things had totally changed. Made me feel like totally idiot. Yeah, it's getting really tricky to post things quickly enough these days because things are happening so quickly. We'll try to get this one up ASAP. We'll We'll see how we do. There's a a better solution. Go live? >> Because time time is of the essence. Talk twice as fast. There you go. I was going to say go live and and do it live, but I like I like that answer, too. I was going to ask you a little bit more about, you know, you're talking about this major transition that we're going through in terms of the West. And I've heard I've had a lot of conversations about the rise of the BRICS countries and how gold is involved in that, but I want to I want to hear about what you're referring to when you talk about that big transition that's happening right now. Life is filled with cycles. For five centuries, Rome was the center of the world, and [snorts] it grew and it grew and it grew, and they spent more and more and more money fighting wars they didn't have to fight, and it got to the point it was totally corrupt. And Rome collapsed. Now, what do we call the period between, say, 400 AD and 1500? We have a name for it. Oh, is that the Dark Ages? Thank you. Very good. Okay, exactly. When a society and economy collapses, you go into Dark Ages. Now, I I think we're seeing it right now. I see Donald Trump and the the goons that he has surrounding himself with doing things that are so outrageous. Donald Trump is putting out memes of him as a Christ figure. And I'm thinking that that That guy's not dealing with the full deck. I mean, that it's not a rational position to take. And his people, of course, aren't saying anything about, "Oh, well, that's just Donald." Excuse me. When people start thinking they're Christ, that's not just Donald. That's goofy. So, where do you see the the power transitioning toward? Maybe we can talk a little bit more about that. Are we Are we seeing it move toward the East? And And how specifically does that look to you? Okay, India and China were the largest economies in the world for 17 centuries. We are going to go back to that. Okay, uh China was an incredible dynasty uh 1,500 1,800 years ago. When Rome was collapsing due to corruption and the debt, uh China was was in its glory period. So, so I I see the power transitioning to the East and to the South, and there literally is a movement. Uh if you go back to 1400, and you wanted the best doctor in the world, you would go to Iran. Okay? I Iran brought us chess. They brought us numbers. They were one of the most sophisticated oldest countries on Earth. Egypt and Iran are the oldest societies on Earth. Now, we're going to go back to that. Now, actually I I find is a very attractive alternative. [snorts] Yeah, I I see what you mean there. And I wonder, so what are the implications for gold there? I've also been hearing a lot about the movement of gold from west east where the east is taking up all the gold that people in the west are selling. I wonder how how you see it. What are the implications perhaps for the price? I think a lot of people are curious about that. Well, you're familiar with Gresham's law. Mhm. Okay, bad money chases out good money. Uh they understand intuitively that gold is real. Uh do you Okay. The largest silver mine in history was Potosi. And the Spanish discovered Potosi and it literally was a mountain of silver and it made Spain the richest country in the world. The silver left Potosi and went up the coast to Portobello and then they put it on galleons and they shipped it to Manila. And then they shipped it from Manila to China for tea, China and silk. Okay? So, if you go to South America if you go to an old Spanish museum and I've been to one in in Peru that was absolutely amazing. You see the effects of the Chinese economy on tea tea, silk, and and China. And the really interesting thing is we're going to go back to that. Now, the Chinese wanted silver. The the Europeans wanted gold. So, most of the gold and some of the silver went to Europe, but most of the silver went to China. But, the British wanted silver. So, they got the Chinese addicted to opium that was produced in Afghanistan and India. And if you go to India today, you'll see silver all over the place because it was pouring it into India for 100 years, 150 years. Uh The the story of mining is a lot more interesting than most investors realize. And we're going to go back to that. And in hindsight, United States investors in the United States or investors in Europe when when China decides to go to a full gold standard, all all these investors in Europe and the United States can say, "Damn, why didn't we think of that?" Would you rather be invested in a treasury bond or would you rather invest in something real? What country invented paper money? Oh, I don't You tell me. I don't know that one. China. Great. When they did, what happened to their economy? Probably not anything good, I'm going to guess. It It blew up. The really funny thing is these things repeat. Okay? Governments are not led by the brass best and the brightest. They're led by sociopaths who do anything to gain power. So, China came up this really wonderful concept and it destroyed their economy cuz they printed too much money. And that happened again and again and again. And it's happening to the United States right now. Nobody realize. You go back to Germany in 1921 and 1922, you have to ask yourself, "Didn't these people realize that just printing unlimited amounts pieces of paper would destroy their currency, would destroy their economy?" And the answer is no, never occurred to them. Yeah, I I mean I guess people can easily forget what happened in the past. But, sir, I want I want to go back to your comment about full gold standard in China. Is that something that could actually happen because I think sometimes I hear, "All right, well, you can't go back to a gold standard unless you have, you know, more of a a global participation." So, how how could that work? Okay, uh I ask questions when people do interviews and it drives your viewers absolutely insane. So, I won't do that. There is an ounce of gold per person in the world today. And that's almost always been true. We've got plenty of gold. The problem with the gold standard is implementing it. It's not a lack of gold. You actually don't need any gold for gold standard. You need discipline. And when you're on paper, there is no discipline. So, they keep printing it, keep printing it, keep printing. One of these days, there's somebody who had sent me about 30 pictures of Roman coinage and I'm going to tell you it's from like 50 AD to 350 AD. And he cleans the coins and the coins in the last 100 years, he just cleans them with vinegar or something. It literally takes the silver off the coin. And and I'm going to put these coins in in the a a uh portfolio and show what happened from a pure silver coin to a silver washed coin. We're doing the same thing. I mean, it's nothing new. This has happened It happened to the Spanish. It happened to the English. Uh it happened to the Germans and it's happening to the United States. We've had silver come up a number of times. So, I should I should ask you more directly about silver. So, we can see the case for a higher silver price, but silver's also got its industrial side and I I'm not sure how how that will be impacted as we go through the round war and all these these things falling out among the world. So, how how do you see the outlook for silver? How do you see those two sides interacting? Okay, I I'm going to insult your rate or or your viewers. Silver investors are batshit crazy. There will always be some guru running around talking about how silver's going to go to $500 an ounce tomorrow. Silver, it's the most volatile and silver is the most dangerous metal to invest in. That said, it happens to be my favorite metal. You go back to when I was young, our coins 10 cent piece, 25 cent piece, 50 cent piece, silver dollar were 90% silver. When I was 10 years old, my mother sent me to store to get a loaf of bread or a quart of milk, she'd give me three dimes. Okay? And three dimes would get me either loaf of bread or quart of milk. Uh because of the Vietnam War and the cost of the Vietnam War, by 1965, we had used up the silver that we had stored. I mean, hundreds of millions of ounces going back to 1885. And they went off the silver standard in 1965. Coins were clad rather than 90% silver. But, uh I I am like so So, silver was used for coinage and it was used for photography and it was used for dental fillings. Now, Canada has some really interesting laws. If you want to be in the mercury business in Canada, they're very strict about shipping samples for assay. Evidently, the only place in Canada that mercury is safe is in your mouth. If you're not going to use it. >> But, the the use of silver in photography has gone way down, okay? And there aren't any silver amalgam fillings being done anymore. But, for solar and for electronics, the the real demand for silver is going through the roof and that's why we saw what silver did go from four bucks an ounce in 2001 to $121 an ounce. That is a 30-fold move in the metal. That's absolutely remarkable. And I I think silver's going to be in shortage. Uh I happen to own some shares in the fifth largest silver mine in the world. It's in Bolivia. It's called San Cristobal. And I I think silver's great. >> [snorts] >> Do you Do you include other precious metals in your portfolio? Precious like platinum or or palladium? do they have a place for you? Or rhodium. Or rhodium? In 2008, rhodium hit $10,000 an ounce. By uh 2014, 2015, you could buy rhodium for under 7 or $800 an ounce. So, I I literally I As far as I know, I was the only person touting rhodium. But, uh I I was buying rhodium when it was under $800 an ounce. And rhodium went to $28,000 an ounce by 2021. So, the answer is yes. Uh here's what I do. And I'm going to see whether I love you or not. Have you ever Have you ever read my books? Yeah, not yet. So, I guess I love for me. Yeah. I don't I don't love you. I'll get there. I'll get there. >> you got to read my books. Uh no, strangely enough, one of the things that I advocate, ignore interest rates, ignore demand, ignore industrial use, ignore wars, ignore everything and pay attention to sentiment. People buy stuff and they sell stuff for sentiment and no other reason. So, I've been able to call tops and bottoms with some great accuracy sometimes by paying attention to sentiment. And what I say is you should buy things when they're cheap and you should sell them when they're expensive. Now, if if the the value of rhodium was $10,000 in 2008 and it went to $700 an ounce, uh it's cheap. And I I have people that say Well, it's funny. People write me and say, "How do I know if a stock's cheap?" And I kind of scratch my head and wonder if I want to be insulting or not. Well, you can always look at the price. But, silver got down to $4.01 in real terms. Silver was the cheapest it'd been in 100 years. And in November 2001, so I I bought a lot of silver under $4.50 an ounce. And I advocate selling that. But, the problem is there's nothing else I could put it into now, so I haven't sold the gold, haven't sold silver. I I'm keeping them as an insurance policy. But, if you want to succeed, buy what's cheap and sell what's expensive and it's no more complicated than that. Yeah, it does sound very simple when you put it that way. And I'll I'll let us wrap up. This has been really interesting. I know I've kept you quite a long time. Before I let you go, any final thoughts you would leave investors with? Maybe things that you think they're missing or or should be aware of right now in these interesting times. That that's a really good question. What I'm going to say is we've got a good news, bad news situation. There are a thousand ways to get information. And somewhere around 673 of them are total nonsense. People are going to have to learn to think for themselves and evaluate evaluate things realistically and make [snorts] important decisions based on what what could be limited information. We live in exceptionally dangerous times and this is a not a time to be going into debt. It's not a time to be taking chances. It's a time to pull back, protect yourself, protect your family, and things could get worse and probably will. Why don't you tell us about where we can find your books? Okay, they're available on both Lulu and Amazon. And I've written about a dozen books. I think I've got 10 books in print. I've had three books make it to [snorts] the Wall Street Journal bestseller list. I have written short fiction. I've written uh books about war. I've written books about financing. And I'm not the greatest writer in the world. That's probably Dave Collum. But, I I'm a good writer. And I I I actually am a very funny writer, too. So, I I would highly encourage people to go to Amazon and take a look at the books. All right. Well, and this is a question for me. Now that we know that I need to get to work reading your books, where is where should we start? Where's the best place to start from your books? At right the beginning. Start Okay, makes total sense. >> Let Let me tell you something. I'm going to give a compliment to Dave Collum. Have you ever interviewed Dave Collum? No, I follow him online, but I haven't spoken to him. >> [clears throat] >> You should absolutely interview him. He's one of the most interesting people in the United States. He is a professor in New York. And every year he does a year in review. And he posts it on Peak Prosperity in December. And I always look forward to it. So, I I I got a piece Peak Prosperity one year and it took me like 30 hours to go through the whole thing. So, I called Dave up and I said, "Hey Dave, you don't know me and there's a reason for that, but you need to put these things in the books." And he said, "Well, yeah, but that would cost money." And I said, "Well, yeah, of course it would, but the whole theory is you could make money." He said, "Well, that would be kind of good." So, I helped him publish the books. And 321gold was actually the very first site to post Dave Collum in 2009 when he was posting under pseudonym. But, his books are interesting because you go to any book from 2009 to 2025, you can pick up any book, open it to any page, start reading, and you will be immediately enthralled. Now, my books are really boring after starting to begin. Okay. Well, now now we've got him for our reading list as well. And all right. Well, next time next time I have you back, I'm going to have read at least one of your books. I will make that promise right now. I think that sounds fair. I'm going to hold you to it. Okay. All right. Well, it's a deal. We will we'll wrap it up there for now, I think. Thank you so much. Once again, I'm Charlotte McLeod with investingnews.com and this is Bob Moriarty of 321gold. Thank you for watching. If you like this video, make sure you hit [music] the like button and subscribe to our channel. We'd also love to hear your thoughts, so leave us a comment below.
Bob Moriarty: Gold, Silver, Fuel, Food — Protect Yourself Now
Summary
Transcript
I'm Charlotte McLeod with investingnews.com and here today with me is Bob Moriarty, publisher of 321gold. Thank you so much for being here for the very first time. It's great to have you. Well, it's a genuine pleasure and I'm embarrassed to admit it, but I never seen your website. I went to your website and my only question was, why is she hiding this? Well, I promise I'm not trying to to hide it. I'm so glad you found it and and hopefully maybe some more people will will take a look after this, but it's great to have you as well. I was I was I was telling you I was looking at your website getting ready for this interview. I think it's a great resource as well. And of course, where I want to start today is with gold and since it is our first time talking, I thought we could take a step back and look at where gold is in the cycle right now. Of course, it's been an exciting year getting up to all-time highs. Now we're in a pullback, but there's a lot of interesting things going on in the world. So, where would you place this in the cycle for gold? We are in the very very very early stages of the game. The the woman singer has finished the start starts bang bang or and everybody's about to go out and and start playing baseball, but we are so early in this game. Some of the things scare me. I mean, the run-up to $5,000 gold, that was breathtaking and unfortunately, it scares me because it suggests the rest of the financial system is about to crater. But here's where we are basically. I wrote a piece on April 25th of 2011 and that was the very day silver hit its peak. And I said beware of parabolic moves. Parabolic moves always end in disaster. And [snorts] we we had a giant correction after the parabolic move, but the fact of the matter is it was a relatively small correction. It was a quick correction, but it was a short correction. We've we've had a couple of months for the market to digest what's going on and I think we're about to go into the first inning of the game. If you look at gold stocks compared to everything else, gold stocks are just simply absurdly cheap. There is a lot of There's a lot of investors who are asking three bucks. So, the the funds are actually having to sell shares. They did this in 2001, they did this in 2008, they did this in 2015 and every single time it was an incredible opportunity. So, I I'm incredibly optimistic even though I personally would not buy gold at this price because I was buying gold at 260, 270, 300. I was loading up the boat with silver when it was below $4.5. Now, I'm going to explain something and and nobody ever does this. I don't know why they do it. Every investor is different. Every investor is a different age, they have different resources, they have different objectives. The way I look at gold and silver is the metals metals of physical metals are insurance policies against financial chaos. I don't buy gold and silver to make money. If I want to make money, I buy the resource stocks where you get the magnification effect. So, I I think we're in extraordinary time and given all of the insanity of the war in Iran, and I spent 20 months in Vietnam, so you have a pretty good idea what war is like. Very bad things could happen and if investors have not taken actions to protect themselves, they they could be in a world of hurt. So, for you, just to clarify, you're not buying gold, but it's because you already have the gold that you need for protection right now. So, for those who who don't have it or they don't have have enough, now is still a good time to be buying gold and silver. Well, here's why. Do you have a car? Yes. Do you have insurance on the car? Yes. Do you want to collect on the insurance? Yeah, if something if something bad happens. Yeah, but basically, you don't want anything bad happen. The ideal situation is which you have insurance, but you never have to use it. So, I I got gold and silver and I bought it for over 25 years and I hope I never have to use it, but it's just an insurance policy. Now, if an investor has some resources and takes a look the very dangerous things that are happening with the repo market, with the stock market, with the AI, with lithium, there's so many things that could end badly. I I think it's a mistake for people not to own an insurance policy. So, while I wouldn't buy gold at 4,700, doesn't mean other people should. You should have something in your hands that you know you could pay for a loaf of bread or some gasoline or something else. People We're we're in a transition that started with Christopher Columbus in 1492. And in in the next 30 years, incredible amounts of wealth were found in Central and South America and that all flowed to Europe. In 1492, Europe was a It was not the center of the world, but after all this money flowed into Europe, it became the center. Well, now we're in a transition and the power is shifting to the east and it's shifting to the south. So, bad things could happen. So, it's a good idea to own some gold, it's a good idea to own some silver, but if you want to make money, you want to be buying resource stocks. Absolutely. We've we've got a number of different directions that I want to follow you down and I I want to go back though to gold being in or about to go into the first inning. I think a lot of people after the price action that we saw earlier this year and now what we're seeing with the pullback in gold and silver prices, they're wondering what will kick off the next move higher for precious metals, especially because I think a lot of people were thinking, all right, a war has started, that should push the prices higher. Instead, we've we've continued in this lower area of price. So, what do you think is the catalyst for the next move higher in gold and silver? The price of a gallon of gasoline. Okay. I went through the Arab oil embargo in 1973 and 6.5 million barrels of oil were taken off the market. Now, they weren't taken off the market in terms of blowing up a refinery, they were taken off because the Arabs just shut the taps. So, when everybody was happy, all I had to do is turn the tap back on. But the price of a barrel of oil went from $3 a barrel to $20 a barrel virtually overnight. Now, the amazing thing to me in this so much worse in every measure than 1973 or 1979, I am absolutely staggered to drive by a a gas station and not see a line 2 mi long. We pay $13 US a gallon for diesel in Europe and they're in France. And the strange thing is people drive still drive in their cars around, they're not filling their car up, they're not standing in line. One day soon, they're going to realize say, wait a minute, this is very serious and we need to do something. Now, you're associated with the mining business. You know how important the cost of energy is to to mining companies. It's a substantial part and it's probably gone from uh 25% of the total cost to 40% of the total cost. So, it's a very very very dangerous time and it's a time that investors need to wake up and they need to protect themselves. That's another direction I wanted to go in. I wanted to talk about the the overall direction of inflation. Of course, it's looking like it's going to go much higher, But, especially for for the mining companies, because you're talking about That's how you you would want to make money in this sector. But, I've seen a lot of questions from our audience about the the costs for the mining companies rising in this scenario. So, how how are you working that out in your head? Uh this is my opinion. And when you do an interview with anyone, I don't care what their credentials are, they're just giving you their opinion. When I saw silver go from 30 bucks to 121 bucks, and saw gold go from under 3,000 to over 5,000, that suggested to me we're about to go into hyperinflation. Now, the United States is run I don't know a nice way to put this. The United States is run by a bunch of lunatics, period. And the United States is bankrupt. And once the world recognizes the United States is bankrupt, I I think we could very easily go into hyperinflation. Now, the cost of energy is going to drive the price of everything up. It's going to drive the price of fertilizer up. It's going to drive the the price of helium up. It's going to drive the price of urea up. It's going to drive the price of food up, because all of the inputs to make food. So, we're scary time. Food still going to be produced, but it's going to cost more money. Gold, silver, lithium, platinum, palladium, copper, lead, zinc are still going to be produced, but it's going to cost more to produce it. So, almost inevitably, the prices of those metals are going to have to go up. So, we could easily have hyperinflation. It sounds like we're heading into a pretty bad situation. And so, hyperinflation, I wonder if you can talk a little bit more about how that could play out in the US. I've been asking a lot of questions lately about the Federal Reserve, because we have a new Fed chair coming in. There's all of that going on. But, it sounds like the the problems are just much larger scope than that. So, how how do you see it playing out? Okay. Trump was elected president to lower the cost of government. And the cost of the Department of Defense at the time was just under 1 trillion dollars. Now, he is saying, a year and a half into administration, increase by 40%. I've had people ask me, how could he do that? What are we going to spend the money on? And I said, I'm not that smart. I don't know. I don't know how you increase your budget 40% in 1 year. I I think uh the United States government is in hands of fools. The Iran war was totally insane. To not back out of them is totally insane. And only bad things can happen as a result. Uh prices are going to absolutely go up. People are going to starve. People are going to freeze. What has happened already is catastrophic. And once you go past uh 60 days, we're 40 days into this goofy war. Once you go past past 60 days, it it's going to be a totally out of control catastrophe. What's most amazing to me is most people don't see it. I think that's true. So, so 60 days, that's the the cutoff point when we get toward that that point of no return from what we're facing here? Right. But, every single day makes things worse, because [snorts] there more and more and more and more shortages. And the mere fact that nobody understands it, nobody's in any kind of panic. If there was ever a time to panic, it would be now. Why why do you think that is? I know that's a a big question, but there's all these massive movements going on in the world. Why why do you think people aren't reacting more strongly right now? I don't know. That's a brilliant question, and I'm not smart enough to answer. I just simply don't know. I don't understand it. When the war started, I talked to every close neighbor I had. I said, get down to the fuel station, load up with fuel, and and fill your car. And I had stored I used kerosene heaters. I live in a little tiny mill house. I used kerosene heaters, so I had a half a dozen empty 5-gallon containers, and I gave them to my friends. And And the amazing thing is, they go down to the gas station, no waiting, no line. But, the price of diesel has gone from 1.65 1 year old 65 pounds in France to 2 euros 25. So, you've got about a 25-30% increase. Nobody cares. I'm sitting here >> [laughter] >> and wait a minute, you know, when when your your costs when your input goes up 30% a year, you got a problem. And I'll give you a perfect example. We can guarantee interest rates are going to have to go higher. And if the DOD budget goes to 1.4 trillion, the interest rate paid is going to have to go up to 1.4, 1.5 trillion. We're blowing our financial system up. Strangely enough, I'm one of the very few guys who've been predicting this. I've been saying for years that the system of the West has one foot on a banana peel and another foot on the grave. I I was buying gold, cuz I saw this 25 years ago. Well, and maybe we talk a little bit more about how you're preparing right now. So, you've got gold and silver. It sounds like you are having fuel that you've gathered around. What else can people do to be preparing for for what's coming right now? Well, we can guarantee there's going to be shortages of food, and we can guarantee the cost of food is going to be much higher. Here is the argument that I use when I'm talking to people. Give me a number. How much do you spend on food for your family daily? Well, daily, I could give you I could give you monthly, maybe like $500. Okay. That's That's a good number. What is the difference between buying the food now and buying it over the next 6 months? Nothing, exactly. Yeah. It's the same thing. It's food. You're going to eat the food anyway. Unless telling you go out and get something that's perishable. If you bought food and stored it now, you're going to have food. We don't know how bad things are going to get. But, having been in the service for 6 years and in war for 20 months, wars are really easy to start, and they're really hard to end. And being prepared just makes sense. And the strange thing is, in the next 6 months, you're going to spend $30,000 on food. So, whether you spend it next week, or whether you spend it over the next 6 months, doesn't make any difference. I got 6 months food here. Because, okay, I I eat food. Now, that I bought the food, I I know it's going to be cheaper. And I've seen some price increases in food already that that scare me. But, food's going to go into scarcity. Diesel fuel transports everything in our society. Where do you physically live? Vancouver. Okay. The distance from San Francisco to New York is about 2,500 miles. The average food in the United States travels 2,800 miles. Okay. And we have no idea of how important energy is to the cost of food. It's not only growing it, it's it's cutting it, it's planting it, and it's cutting it down, it's packaging it, and it's shipping to grocery stores that that adds up. So, we're in for a very dangerous time. Certainly, and and please don't talk to me about the government. I I am an equal opportunity anarchist. I despise all governments equally. And uh the government's doing nothing except making things worse. And I'm not going to criticize Canada, because Donald Trump actually makes Canada look quite sane. Well, I'll ask you Maybe I ask you about oil prices. We've been talking about how high energy prices could go. We've already seen such price volatility in oil. How how high ultimately do you think oil prices could go? Okay, here's the deal. And here's a honest answer and a fair answer. When people panic, they panic. I'm not sure what it would take to wake people up, but one day soon everybody's going to wake up at exactly the same time. You're you're too young to remember this, but back during the '60s, Johnny Carson was the most famous night host, and everybody listened to Johnny Carson, I think from 10:00 until 11:00 at night. And Johnny Carson gets on one night and says, "You know, there's a toilet paper shortage in the United States." Now, when when you went to the store the next day to buy toilet paper, what did you find? Probably none or not very much. None? None? >> Yeah. He created a shortage just by saying there's shortage. Well, there wasn't any shortage, okay? And there actually is a shortage of oil, okay? Absolutely. Uh Canada and the United States are relatively protected because Canada produces a lot of uh energy and the United States produces a lot of energy. But but frankly, Canada has a continuous border with a country run by idiots, >> [snorts] >> okay? Who are who are doing everything possible wrong. Uh people need to be planting victory gardens. People need to be reducing the speed limit. People need to be taking uh >> [snorts] >> precautions because costs are going to go up dramatically. The government's not doing anything. They're going to wait for people to discover, "Hey, wait a minute. You know, I was paying 1 and a quarter for days last week, and now I'm paying four." Where could the price go? Well, in 1973, with a relatively minor cut in the oil production, prices went up 300%. There is a east-west pipeline in Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia typically exports oil through the Strait of Hormuz, because that's blocked off first by the Iranians and then the second by Donald Trump. They have an alternative called the east-west pipeline, and they're now shipping 7 million barrels a day through the east-west pipeline. The single most effective military force in the Middle East, wears cowls on their head and sandals, and that would be the Houthis. And the Houthis actually shut down a major Israeli port. Now, how they did it is totally beyond me. I don't know. But the Houthis control the exit from the Red Sea. So, Saudi Arabia is planning on exporting fuel through the Red Sea, but that's 7 million barrels. If that gets taken off the market, then all of a sudden we're talking about a shortage of 27 million barrels or about 25% of the world's supply. There are things There should be a worldwide peace conference right now to sit down and figure out what's going on and who started it and what we need to do to end it, because if it's going to end badly. It definitely seems like we're heading in that direction, and I asked about oil prices partially because I see people in our audience wondering, "All right, well, is now a good time for me to invest in oil companies or producers?" That kind of thing. And I wonder your thoughts on that. Is it Is that a good idea? Or should people more focus on on having the fuel for themselves at the moment? Okay, uh that's a very fair question. And my personal uh investment criteria, I want to hold a fair bit of cash. I I see the funds unloading shares because of redemptions, and [snorts] I I want to cherry-pick really nice stocks, and I see a lot of stocks that I consider very cheap. But the problem is when when you need money to go buy a stock, you need it some kind of liquid form. So, what I have done for the last 6 weeks is kept some money in a Brent ETF, which is a pure bet on the price of Brent oil, and the Sprott Silver ETF. And the advantage to those is they're extremely liquid. I got stocks where I've [snorts] got, say, $100,000 or $200,000 in one stock, but it would take a month to sell it. So, I I got stock, and it looks like I'm worth a lot of money, but I'm not worth a lot of money because it's not liquid. But the Brent ETF and the Sprott Silver ETF, those are so liquid, I could sell 20 or 30 or 50,000 dollars of those in a one phone call. So, I I never really answered your question, but I'm going to give you some numbers. If people get really stupid, you could see $200 a barrel, you could see $300 a barrel, you could see $400 a barrel. All depends on how stupid they get. The war is stupid. Nobody is trying to end it. It It gets more absurd every day. I've done interviews in which by the time I finished the interview, things had totally changed. Made me feel like totally idiot. Yeah, it's getting really tricky to post things quickly enough these days because things are happening so quickly. We'll try to get this one up ASAP. We'll We'll see how we do. There's a a better solution. Go live? >> Because time time is of the essence. Talk twice as fast. There you go. I was going to say go live and and do it live, but I like I like that answer, too. I was going to ask you a little bit more about, you know, you're talking about this major transition that we're going through in terms of the West. And I've heard I've had a lot of conversations about the rise of the BRICS countries and how gold is involved in that, but I want to I want to hear about what you're referring to when you talk about that big transition that's happening right now. Life is filled with cycles. For five centuries, Rome was the center of the world, and [snorts] it grew and it grew and it grew, and they spent more and more and more money fighting wars they didn't have to fight, and it got to the point it was totally corrupt. And Rome collapsed. Now, what do we call the period between, say, 400 AD and 1500? We have a name for it. Oh, is that the Dark Ages? Thank you. Very good. Okay, exactly. When a society and economy collapses, you go into Dark Ages. Now, I I think we're seeing it right now. I see Donald Trump and the the goons that he has surrounding himself with doing things that are so outrageous. Donald Trump is putting out memes of him as a Christ figure. And I'm thinking that that That guy's not dealing with the full deck. I mean, that it's not a rational position to take. And his people, of course, aren't saying anything about, "Oh, well, that's just Donald." Excuse me. When people start thinking they're Christ, that's not just Donald. That's goofy. So, where do you see the the power transitioning toward? Maybe we can talk a little bit more about that. Are we Are we seeing it move toward the East? And And how specifically does that look to you? Okay, India and China were the largest economies in the world for 17 centuries. We are going to go back to that. Okay, uh China was an incredible dynasty uh 1,500 1,800 years ago. When Rome was collapsing due to corruption and the debt, uh China was was in its glory period. So, so I I see the power transitioning to the East and to the South, and there literally is a movement. Uh if you go back to 1400, and you wanted the best doctor in the world, you would go to Iran. Okay? I Iran brought us chess. They brought us numbers. They were one of the most sophisticated oldest countries on Earth. Egypt and Iran are the oldest societies on Earth. Now, we're going to go back to that. Now, actually I I find is a very attractive alternative. [snorts] Yeah, I I see what you mean there. And I wonder, so what are the implications for gold there? I've also been hearing a lot about the movement of gold from west east where the east is taking up all the gold that people in the west are selling. I wonder how how you see it. What are the implications perhaps for the price? I think a lot of people are curious about that. Well, you're familiar with Gresham's law. Mhm. Okay, bad money chases out good money. Uh they understand intuitively that gold is real. Uh do you Okay. The largest silver mine in history was Potosi. And the Spanish discovered Potosi and it literally was a mountain of silver and it made Spain the richest country in the world. The silver left Potosi and went up the coast to Portobello and then they put it on galleons and they shipped it to Manila. And then they shipped it from Manila to China for tea, China and silk. Okay? So, if you go to South America if you go to an old Spanish museum and I've been to one in in Peru that was absolutely amazing. You see the effects of the Chinese economy on tea tea, silk, and and China. And the really interesting thing is we're going to go back to that. Now, the Chinese wanted silver. The the Europeans wanted gold. So, most of the gold and some of the silver went to Europe, but most of the silver went to China. But, the British wanted silver. So, they got the Chinese addicted to opium that was produced in Afghanistan and India. And if you go to India today, you'll see silver all over the place because it was pouring it into India for 100 years, 150 years. Uh The the story of mining is a lot more interesting than most investors realize. And we're going to go back to that. And in hindsight, United States investors in the United States or investors in Europe when when China decides to go to a full gold standard, all all these investors in Europe and the United States can say, "Damn, why didn't we think of that?" Would you rather be invested in a treasury bond or would you rather invest in something real? What country invented paper money? Oh, I don't You tell me. I don't know that one. China. Great. When they did, what happened to their economy? Probably not anything good, I'm going to guess. It It blew up. The really funny thing is these things repeat. Okay? Governments are not led by the brass best and the brightest. They're led by sociopaths who do anything to gain power. So, China came up this really wonderful concept and it destroyed their economy cuz they printed too much money. And that happened again and again and again. And it's happening to the United States right now. Nobody realize. You go back to Germany in 1921 and 1922, you have to ask yourself, "Didn't these people realize that just printing unlimited amounts pieces of paper would destroy their currency, would destroy their economy?" And the answer is no, never occurred to them. Yeah, I I mean I guess people can easily forget what happened in the past. But, sir, I want I want to go back to your comment about full gold standard in China. Is that something that could actually happen because I think sometimes I hear, "All right, well, you can't go back to a gold standard unless you have, you know, more of a a global participation." So, how how could that work? Okay, uh I ask questions when people do interviews and it drives your viewers absolutely insane. So, I won't do that. There is an ounce of gold per person in the world today. And that's almost always been true. We've got plenty of gold. The problem with the gold standard is implementing it. It's not a lack of gold. You actually don't need any gold for gold standard. You need discipline. And when you're on paper, there is no discipline. So, they keep printing it, keep printing it, keep printing. One of these days, there's somebody who had sent me about 30 pictures of Roman coinage and I'm going to tell you it's from like 50 AD to 350 AD. And he cleans the coins and the coins in the last 100 years, he just cleans them with vinegar or something. It literally takes the silver off the coin. And and I'm going to put these coins in in the a a uh portfolio and show what happened from a pure silver coin to a silver washed coin. We're doing the same thing. I mean, it's nothing new. This has happened It happened to the Spanish. It happened to the English. Uh it happened to the Germans and it's happening to the United States. We've had silver come up a number of times. So, I should I should ask you more directly about silver. So, we can see the case for a higher silver price, but silver's also got its industrial side and I I'm not sure how how that will be impacted as we go through the round war and all these these things falling out among the world. So, how how do you see the outlook for silver? How do you see those two sides interacting? Okay, I I'm going to insult your rate or or your viewers. Silver investors are batshit crazy. There will always be some guru running around talking about how silver's going to go to $500 an ounce tomorrow. Silver, it's the most volatile and silver is the most dangerous metal to invest in. That said, it happens to be my favorite metal. You go back to when I was young, our coins 10 cent piece, 25 cent piece, 50 cent piece, silver dollar were 90% silver. When I was 10 years old, my mother sent me to store to get a loaf of bread or a quart of milk, she'd give me three dimes. Okay? And three dimes would get me either loaf of bread or quart of milk. Uh because of the Vietnam War and the cost of the Vietnam War, by 1965, we had used up the silver that we had stored. I mean, hundreds of millions of ounces going back to 1885. And they went off the silver standard in 1965. Coins were clad rather than 90% silver. But, uh I I am like so So, silver was used for coinage and it was used for photography and it was used for dental fillings. Now, Canada has some really interesting laws. If you want to be in the mercury business in Canada, they're very strict about shipping samples for assay. Evidently, the only place in Canada that mercury is safe is in your mouth. If you're not going to use it. >> But, the the use of silver in photography has gone way down, okay? And there aren't any silver amalgam fillings being done anymore. But, for solar and for electronics, the the real demand for silver is going through the roof and that's why we saw what silver did go from four bucks an ounce in 2001 to $121 an ounce. That is a 30-fold move in the metal. That's absolutely remarkable. And I I think silver's going to be in shortage. Uh I happen to own some shares in the fifth largest silver mine in the world. It's in Bolivia. It's called San Cristobal. And I I think silver's great. >> [snorts] >> Do you Do you include other precious metals in your portfolio? Precious like platinum or or palladium? do they have a place for you? Or rhodium. Or rhodium? In 2008, rhodium hit $10,000 an ounce. By uh 2014, 2015, you could buy rhodium for under 7 or $800 an ounce. So, I I literally I As far as I know, I was the only person touting rhodium. But, uh I I was buying rhodium when it was under $800 an ounce. And rhodium went to $28,000 an ounce by 2021. So, the answer is yes. Uh here's what I do. And I'm going to see whether I love you or not. Have you ever Have you ever read my books? Yeah, not yet. So, I guess I love for me. Yeah. I don't I don't love you. I'll get there. I'll get there. >> you got to read my books. Uh no, strangely enough, one of the things that I advocate, ignore interest rates, ignore demand, ignore industrial use, ignore wars, ignore everything and pay attention to sentiment. People buy stuff and they sell stuff for sentiment and no other reason. So, I've been able to call tops and bottoms with some great accuracy sometimes by paying attention to sentiment. And what I say is you should buy things when they're cheap and you should sell them when they're expensive. Now, if if the the value of rhodium was $10,000 in 2008 and it went to $700 an ounce, uh it's cheap. And I I have people that say Well, it's funny. People write me and say, "How do I know if a stock's cheap?" And I kind of scratch my head and wonder if I want to be insulting or not. Well, you can always look at the price. But, silver got down to $4.01 in real terms. Silver was the cheapest it'd been in 100 years. And in November 2001, so I I bought a lot of silver under $4.50 an ounce. And I advocate selling that. But, the problem is there's nothing else I could put it into now, so I haven't sold the gold, haven't sold silver. I I'm keeping them as an insurance policy. But, if you want to succeed, buy what's cheap and sell what's expensive and it's no more complicated than that. Yeah, it does sound very simple when you put it that way. And I'll I'll let us wrap up. This has been really interesting. I know I've kept you quite a long time. Before I let you go, any final thoughts you would leave investors with? Maybe things that you think they're missing or or should be aware of right now in these interesting times. That that's a really good question. What I'm going to say is we've got a good news, bad news situation. There are a thousand ways to get information. And somewhere around 673 of them are total nonsense. People are going to have to learn to think for themselves and evaluate evaluate things realistically and make [snorts] important decisions based on what what could be limited information. We live in exceptionally dangerous times and this is a not a time to be going into debt. It's not a time to be taking chances. It's a time to pull back, protect yourself, protect your family, and things could get worse and probably will. Why don't you tell us about where we can find your books? Okay, they're available on both Lulu and Amazon. And I've written about a dozen books. I think I've got 10 books in print. I've had three books make it to [snorts] the Wall Street Journal bestseller list. I have written short fiction. I've written uh books about war. I've written books about financing. And I'm not the greatest writer in the world. That's probably Dave Collum. But, I I'm a good writer. And I I I actually am a very funny writer, too. So, I I would highly encourage people to go to Amazon and take a look at the books. All right. Well, and this is a question for me. Now that we know that I need to get to work reading your books, where is where should we start? Where's the best place to start from your books? At right the beginning. Start Okay, makes total sense. >> Let Let me tell you something. I'm going to give a compliment to Dave Collum. Have you ever interviewed Dave Collum? No, I follow him online, but I haven't spoken to him. >> [clears throat] >> You should absolutely interview him. He's one of the most interesting people in the United States. He is a professor in New York. And every year he does a year in review. And he posts it on Peak Prosperity in December. And I always look forward to it. So, I I I got a piece Peak Prosperity one year and it took me like 30 hours to go through the whole thing. So, I called Dave up and I said, "Hey Dave, you don't know me and there's a reason for that, but you need to put these things in the books." And he said, "Well, yeah, but that would cost money." And I said, "Well, yeah, of course it would, but the whole theory is you could make money." He said, "Well, that would be kind of good." So, I helped him publish the books. And 321gold was actually the very first site to post Dave Collum in 2009 when he was posting under pseudonym. But, his books are interesting because you go to any book from 2009 to 2025, you can pick up any book, open it to any page, start reading, and you will be immediately enthralled. Now, my books are really boring after starting to begin. Okay. Well, now now we've got him for our reading list as well. And all right. Well, next time next time I have you back, I'm going to have read at least one of your books. I will make that promise right now. I think that sounds fair. I'm going to hold you to it. Okay. All right. Well, it's a deal. We will we'll wrap it up there for now, I think. Thank you so much. Once again, I'm Charlotte McLeod with investingnews.com and this is Bob Moriarty of 321gold. Thank you for watching. If you like this video, make sure you hit [music] the like button and subscribe to our channel. We'd also love to hear your thoughts, so leave us a comment below.