Brandy Maben: Sports Investing Isn’t Just for Billionaires Anymore
Summary
Alternative Investment: The podcast discusses the growing accessibility of professional sports ownership as an attractive alternative investment, previously limited to billionaires and ultra-high-net-worth families.
Market Accessibility: Retail and accredited investors can now participate in sports investments, with entry points as low as $50,000 for minority shares in teams through specific funds.
Valuation Growth: The valuation of sports franchises has been skyrocketing, exemplified by the Denver Broncos' purchase for $4.6 billion in 2022, highlighting the sector's potential for significant appreciation.
Investment Structure: Investments in sports teams can resemble private equity plays, where funds pool money to acquire minority stakes in multiple teams, offering diversification within the sports sector.
Emotional Connection: The podcast emphasizes the emotional stickiness of sports investments, driven by fan loyalty and passion, which can enhance investor engagement and interest.
Long-term Horizon: Sports investments require a long-term commitment, often with a minimum hold period of 10 years, and are not suitable for those seeking quick liquidity.
Growth Drivers: Future growth in sports investments is expected from media rights, global expansion, digital betting, and esports, with potential new opportunities in motorsports and institutional capital rotation.
Risk Considerations: While offering high growth potential, sports investments come with risks typical of alternative investments, including limited liquidity and the need for thorough due diligence.
Transcript
It used to be that only billionaires and ultra high netw worth families could get into this and so now that the space is opening up, it's very attractive as an alternative investment. Hello and welcome to Wealthy. I'm Maggie Lake and today we are going to be talking about professional sports ownership with Brandy Mabin, director at Wind Rockck Wealth Management. Hi Brandy, how are you? Hey Maggie, I'm great. Thanks for having me on again. >> Well, talk about marrying passion and profit. Ah, this is a topic I think is really going to hit home for so many people because who's not a fan of some kind of sport? I mean, this crosses almost everyone. >> It does these days. I mean, look at the Swifties that have even come over to the NFL side, right? >> Yes. Actually, right. We can finally talk about generational wealth and get the kid the kids interested. But but um but I in all seriousness, it it's like it's it's very serious viewing, but it's very serious money, too. But before we jump in, just a reminder, um if you would like to take a look at your investments and see if there are areas that you're not exposed to or you're not taking advantage of, you can get a free review from of your portfolio uh with a member of the Windrock team. Just hit the link in the description or head over to wealthon.comfree. So Bren, give us a little bit of background. So, we're sort of roughly talking about this as sports investing, but give us some background. Why is this an area that we should be paying attention to from an investment lens? >> Yeah, there's a couple reasons. One, it's becoming much more opportunistic for a retail investor to get into and to a higher level accredited investors, but the scarcity of sports is still there. So, it's still only 150 teams approximately between all of these professional leagues, NFL, MLB, NHL. And to get into that is a tight niche that is hard to and it used to be that only billionaires and ultra high net worth families could get into this. And so, now that the space is opening up, it's very attractive as an alternative investment. I also think Oh, go ahead. Yeah, you you called it an alternative investment. So, talk to me a little bit about that. Like, how does it fit in with what we traditionally think about? >> Well, usually investors automatically think of the stock market and they want to get into various ETFs and mutual funds. They want to make sure that they diversify maybe into gold and silver, but still in the market at Windrock. And one of my favorite things to do with my investors is just to diversify their investments. and alternative investments is a heavy play for our firm because it it makes your money go into different places and not so heavy into one sector. No one wants to experience the drop of 2008 or any other recession in the history of time again. So, if we can mitigate that risk by getting into what we call alternative investments, it helps because something like professional sports teams has proven time and time again, it's very uncorrelated to those dips that we've seen in the market. >> And we've seen, it seems, the the the sort of price tags on some of this because every once in a while, you do see someone a newly minted billionaire come in and make a purchase and it seems like the valuations have really been skyrocketing. >> They're exploding. It's wild. I mean, you see Denver Broncos in 2022, they bought their team for $4.6 billion. That that's a price tag that raised the benchmark of professional sports astronomically. you see the Cowboys, which I personally am a big fan of, and it's been a heartbreaking life to be so, but um Jerry Jones bought that team in 1989 for $140 million, and that was an astronomical price tag then, right? But now he's buying players for the same amount. He just or other teams are buying players for the same amount, right? And so the price tag of this whole industry is raised astronomically. >> Okay, you cannot talk about heartbreak. I I am a New York fan and it doesn't matter. At least the Giants we can remember in this lifetime, but Jets, I mean you there are people who have been born who haven't known a winning team. So we cornered the market on heartbreak. So So I that should make you feel a little bit better. >> So it does. >> Um so okay, so this was an area. So we also I think we've been watching by the way those price tags. Um but this is an area that's opening up you say. So what what's changing and why is this something now that maybe more of us can think about getting involved in as a diversification play? >> Right. Well there's still only a handful of funds that are out there that accredited investors can get into which you have to make certain marks to be able to qualify for these funds. However, if you if you do, your price tag to get in can be as low as $50,000 to have a minority share of these teams. Some of these funds own, let's say, four NBA teams. And not only the franchise of the team, but all of their business model that they put in behind their team, they own. >> And that's just one form of way of getting into these investments. You see the Green Bay Packers, right? There's their diehard fans that they opened up a nonprofit sector for them to be able to buy into the team and have a shareholder portion and that's just going really well for them and it gives liquidity to their ownership partners who have been in for a lifetime and everyone gets just a a fractional share. No controlling part of the team at all. You don't get to say, you don't get to write plays. You don't get to talk to the owner. It's just kind of having a little nugget into these teams instead of maybe the stock market. Thankfully though, if you're not an accredit investor, you can get into the market. There's a a couple that are probably bigger names than the soccer leagues that offer stock market uh tickers, but Manchester United, that's a big one that even young investors that are love that love soccer can get into and just track and start to learn. or you look at Madison Square Garden Sports, that's a little bit higher price tag, but something that retail investors can get into very easily. So, tell me a little bit more. So, I understand that, you know, buying a a publicly traded stock like that and I think we've all watched with with a lot of joy over the years uh Packers Nation and the and you know, the sort of amazing culture that's built around that fractional ownership. What is the other accredited investor route? Because there will certainly be some people who are sitting here who might want to understand what that is. So how does that exactly work? Is it like a private equity type play? I mean what how does that function? >> It's a little bit like a private equity. Yes. And so if you can get into one of these funds, let's use Blue for example. Blue Owl owns four teams and all that they encompass. And those four teams then might sell at some point. Like one example is the Phoenix Suns. They were in this fund, but someone else bought them and they remove themselves from the fund. You're still an owner of the fund, not the Phoenix Suns anymore, but you get that minority share. When you get into that, you can get into it as an individual investor. the minimum was about a million dollars if you had the right connections to get in. But if you're part of this bigger fund group, um you can get in for $50,000 and they pull that money together to accumulate multiple millions and become one kind of group that gets in, if that makes sense. >> Yeah, it does. >> So they pull their money together. >> Yeah. And I think that's what's been changing is some of these sort of structures now that allow for that. um seem like they're a little bit newer. So is owning if if if I said think this is something for me because I I can see where we'd be attracted to it because as I said we're all a lot of us are sports fans of some sort. Pick your sport is owning and when I'm making that decision is owning a piece of a sports franchise different how should what should we be thinking of? What should be we be aware of when you're we're making that kind of decision? >> Right. And that's a really good question because each sports league is actually a little bit different. We've had NFL teams cross our desk, NHL, things like that, and those are a little bit more evaluated on their their broadcasts or their ticket sales or their media rights, right? But the latest one that came across our desk was about the NBA and we found it incredibly intriguing because of the branches that it owns outside of the team. So when you're looking at these investments, you have to see what their valuations are and why they're valuing them that way. So the NBA right now, for example, you can look at a spiderweb chart and you'll see that they own their WNBA team. They own their arena. They own all of their meteorites. They own their um they own their practice facility. They even own sometimes five miles around their arena. So now you're talking about owning real estate with it. And so you own the restaurants, the parking garages, the apartment complexes all around it. You have a fractional share in all of that when you own the team. And so those are pretty powerful things that not only are you getting into this fund for the team itself, you're getting into how much they've made their own industry of business around the team. This October, Wealthian's putting the spotlight on silver with expert interviews, deep analysis, and a special in-depth report from our partners at SCP Resource Finance. To receive this report and other exclusive benefits, you can sign up to become an accredited investor with Wealthon at wealthon.comacredited or by finding the link in the description below. Speaking of silver, Wealthon will be on the ground in Toronto for the SCP Resource Finance Second Global Silver Conference happening on Thursday, October 23rd. Legendary investor Eric Sprat headlines the event alongside 15 silver mining companies presenting their top projects. It's a must attend for anyone serious about investing in silver. Tickets both in person and virtual are now available. Find out more in the description below. Yeah. So, is there a sense that, you know, when we do the due diligence, I'm I'm thinking of, you know, if you look at a company, you're going to say, "What's the earnings? What's the cash flow? What's the What are the things that make a sports team valuable?" >> Well, like I just said, real estate is a big factor in making it valuable. Then the media is is really what we're looking at. If you look back from 2014 to 2015, there were a lot of media rights behind the NBA going on and they made a huge contract deal that skyrocketed growth of all evaluations of each team almost by a so 74% margin. So they really scaled up by just using media. And now when you look at things that are going under contract like esports trying to get into the gaming sector or sports betting and you start to see these contracts come into play with all these teams, you know, there has to be growth or the NFL, they're looking at more global expansion into London. There's speculation with Mexico City >> that is just growth that the valuations will exceedingly go up if if these go through. Yeah. Yeah. So, there's lots of areas and sectors to look at. >> I think you're really talking about that. You know, the thing that makes it super interesting is the brand loyalty and the sort of um connection with the fans. I suppose that's sort of an extra element in this. >> Oh, 100%. Like you just got emotional talking about your team, right? We have I've been a Cowboys fan mainly because my dad was and now my daughter is because of me and my daughter's more into the Cowboys than I ever actually was. I liked it because of my dad. And then Troy Aman, of course, what young girl didn't fall in love with the Cowboys just watching him. Um, it the fandom is just such an emotional stickiness to these investments that even if your team loses and loses and loses and loses, you still have this like glimmer of hope that something is going to happen that's magical and they're going to win everything one day, you're not going to sell your shares the next day because your team lost. you're going to wake up the next day, maybe not wear the shirt, but you will the next week when they're playing again. And so that that emotional stickiness is real. And I think it's one that can actually really help investors start to get in and start to educate them. Like my son, he turns on ESPN every morning, gets his little fix of all his stats, and just putting him in a sliver of Madison Square Garden can start to open the conversation of investment. and he's going to be he's going to be into it way more than any other stock that we could talk about because of the emotional stickiness. >> Yeah, it's it's really interesting to think about that emotional stickiness because it when you're especially when you're looking for diversification and durability, which is something we're all talking about more when it comes to our portfolios. Um it's a sort of a different calculation and a super interesting one because we've seen everything wax and wayne things become popular unpopular but the the power of sports is one of the really lasting kind of cultural um trends that I think just we've just seen you know move in one direction. So that's super interesting. So I I could see a flip side though, right? So that's the appeal and I could and and certainly um it's this is the kind of you know thing that you want to dive into and if you can support your team and there's like I said before marrying passion and profit. I could also see where that could go the other way though when you're trying to determine the risks because you're thinking with your heart I guess and not your head. So are there risks that we need to consider in this area? What do we need to be aware of? always right. When you hear alternative investment, your red flag should definitely go on a little bit and do more due diligence, do more research on what the downfalls are. Most alternative investments, you say, "I'm going to get in. I'm not going to put my life savings in, but I'm going to dabble and I know that I could get nothing back or just my principal and be okay with that." So, that's a little factor with alternative investments. Now, these have a history of growth and valuation increases that are are very um attractive, but to do that, you have to hold your money in there for a very long time and let these contracts like meteorites and this global expansion play out. It's not something you're going to wake up every morning, turn on your phone, and see that your valuation just skyrocketed and make a sell. It's not going to be like that. It's going to be a long-term play. We have viewers we're talking to right now that weren't even born when Jerry Jones bought the Cowboys for 140 billion. And today it's worth $9 billion approximately. That's a lifetime for some of us. And you have to know that this investment will work the same exact way. You have to be patient. You have to not think of this as a liquid play. >> That's a great point. They probably also um only know Troy Aman as a an announcer and a playbyplay as a we're dating ourselves, Bernie. But we are. >> Do you do the teams have to be successful for it to be a good do they have to win on the pitch or on the field for it to be a good investment? >> No. That's the funny thing is as long as their viewership, their media contracts play out, as long as all of their other investments do well, so do you. So, they're going to get returns on those restaurants, those parking garages, those apartment complexes of their real estate alone. And then if esports start to get really good, which is uh just a digital digital arena, these kids that don't even watch the team start to become fans through their own devices. And then you have betting. People don't need to love a team to bet against them. you see March Madness, which isn't professional, but in Vegas, March Madness is crazy busy just because there's all these groups of guys and girls who go and they sports bet all day long because they love that energy and adrenaline. So, there's so many factors where even if the team does poorly, there's another team that's doing well, the competition, the the camaraderie, the emotional stickiness never goes away. Uh so when you're talking about long-term investment have a long horizon, I'm also going to guess that um we need to think about things like liquidity. So if all of a sudden I'm I'm I'm go through one of these I find a fund I get into. Is it the kind of thing that I can exit quickly or along with the time horizon do I have to think about liquidity issues? >> Liquidity is definitely an issue with something like this and getting into professional sports teams. Funny enough, the reason why these are becoming more open is because the legacy owners in them can't pull any of the money out to use for different investments or their own lifestyle. And so they've started to get more strategic of not losing controlling ownership of their team, but giving fractional shares out so that they even get their liquidity. So, if the legacy owners need liquidity, you better think twice that you're not going to see any liquidity because you're not going to be able to sell your shares like they're doing right now. You're going to be locked in for whatever the the deck and the contract and the sub subd documents tell you they are, which is only a rough estimate. So, the last contract we got into in subdocs, it said expect a 10-year minimum hold. That means that don't expect your money before that decade comes comes to mature. >> Yeah. Which is by the way like that's not a negative. That's just understand what you're getting into and maybe you want something especially if the valuations continue to grow that you don't have to worry about but as a diversifier. Um but you just have to understand the role it's playing. Um >> correct. Thank you. And also another thing on that, if if you don't want to do this, we work with a a lot of high netw worth families that they're thinking of legacy plays. And what better than to give a graduation present of we're going to put you into this fund for $50,000. Yeah, nice gift, right? Yeah, you graduate 50,000, but you can't touch it until it matures. You're investing in that child's not only education of finance, but you're giving your legacy funds not only to a better tax bracket most likely where when it does mature, they're not paying your 40% 37% tax, but it will mature at a really great time for those kids. It's a great legacy play. >> Yeah. And a fun one as well, as we talked about. No >> kidding. >> Uh what is So, so it sounds like from everything you're talking about, you really see this as a growth area. I think you I think you hinted on a couple things that you're enthusiastic about, but where do you see this going? What are you watching as future drivers of growth here? >> Yeah, you know, all these media and global contracts we're seeing right now are the biggest things we're keeping our eye on. And the NFL, like I already mentioned, looking at London, speculation around Mexico City, we have our finger on that one just to see what a good entry point would be. The WNBA has had a cyclical three-year cycle where it it's really predictable. However, with all the new happenings and the the noise behind it, maybe that could change and become more of a steady increase up. So, we're keeping our eye on that, too. And then always that digital play. So, the esports are just always kind of something we want to look at. And then the digital betting it's it's it's going to skyrocket the more AI gets better, the more these analysts figure things out. You see in I have a couple investors now that have been kicked out of DraftKings because they partner with analytics and they figure out the algorithm that they make too much money and they get kicked out of these little websites because they're doing so well. It's it's crazy. So there has to be more marketability in that. Motorsports, um, those are really closed off right now. NASCAR, very, very legacy and ownership driven, that could change. And once those change, that could be a really great play. There's so much money and equity behind those. It's it's insane. Think about the demographics of that crowd, right? You have the people that tailgate for days and days before the Indy500 and it's just louder outside of the stadium sometimes than in it. But then the owners are billionaires. So the diversification of fandom there is huge. And then just the institutional capital rotation that's a little bit more complex and higher level, but all those areas are just things to watch out for, I would say. >> Fantastic stuff. Um, Brandy, this was so fun because I've been thinking about it a lot and it really it really was something that was just like, okay, you you build your company, you sell it, you buy a sports franchise, the Mark Cuban, Stevie Cohen with the Mets, or it was the Green Bay Packers. Like, it felt like that's all there was. And I think we all sense that that's changing. So, certainly seems like something that we should um take a look at when we're thinking about areas of investment, not just something we do on the weekend. So, thank you so much for putting it in front of us. appreciate it. >> Absolutely. Thanks for your time. >> So, some uh financial planning we can all finally be enthusiastic about. Uh it's a really fun discussion. Thanks so much, Brandy. And um just a reminder again, if you if you're not looking at this area and you want to or you just want to, you know, get a sense of where what are your options? If you want to diversify, you can get a free portfolio review from one of the Windrock team members. Just hit the link in the description below or head over to wealthyon.comfree. Thanks so much for watching. We'll see you again next time. >> Thank you.
Brandy Maben: Sports Investing Isn’t Just for Billionaires Anymore
Summary
Transcript
It used to be that only billionaires and ultra high netw worth families could get into this and so now that the space is opening up, it's very attractive as an alternative investment. Hello and welcome to Wealthy. I'm Maggie Lake and today we are going to be talking about professional sports ownership with Brandy Mabin, director at Wind Rockck Wealth Management. Hi Brandy, how are you? Hey Maggie, I'm great. Thanks for having me on again. >> Well, talk about marrying passion and profit. Ah, this is a topic I think is really going to hit home for so many people because who's not a fan of some kind of sport? I mean, this crosses almost everyone. >> It does these days. I mean, look at the Swifties that have even come over to the NFL side, right? >> Yes. Actually, right. We can finally talk about generational wealth and get the kid the kids interested. But but um but I in all seriousness, it it's like it's it's very serious viewing, but it's very serious money, too. But before we jump in, just a reminder, um if you would like to take a look at your investments and see if there are areas that you're not exposed to or you're not taking advantage of, you can get a free review from of your portfolio uh with a member of the Windrock team. Just hit the link in the description or head over to wealthon.comfree. So Bren, give us a little bit of background. So, we're sort of roughly talking about this as sports investing, but give us some background. Why is this an area that we should be paying attention to from an investment lens? >> Yeah, there's a couple reasons. One, it's becoming much more opportunistic for a retail investor to get into and to a higher level accredited investors, but the scarcity of sports is still there. So, it's still only 150 teams approximately between all of these professional leagues, NFL, MLB, NHL. And to get into that is a tight niche that is hard to and it used to be that only billionaires and ultra high net worth families could get into this. And so, now that the space is opening up, it's very attractive as an alternative investment. I also think Oh, go ahead. Yeah, you you called it an alternative investment. So, talk to me a little bit about that. Like, how does it fit in with what we traditionally think about? >> Well, usually investors automatically think of the stock market and they want to get into various ETFs and mutual funds. They want to make sure that they diversify maybe into gold and silver, but still in the market at Windrock. And one of my favorite things to do with my investors is just to diversify their investments. and alternative investments is a heavy play for our firm because it it makes your money go into different places and not so heavy into one sector. No one wants to experience the drop of 2008 or any other recession in the history of time again. So, if we can mitigate that risk by getting into what we call alternative investments, it helps because something like professional sports teams has proven time and time again, it's very uncorrelated to those dips that we've seen in the market. >> And we've seen, it seems, the the the sort of price tags on some of this because every once in a while, you do see someone a newly minted billionaire come in and make a purchase and it seems like the valuations have really been skyrocketing. >> They're exploding. It's wild. I mean, you see Denver Broncos in 2022, they bought their team for $4.6 billion. That that's a price tag that raised the benchmark of professional sports astronomically. you see the Cowboys, which I personally am a big fan of, and it's been a heartbreaking life to be so, but um Jerry Jones bought that team in 1989 for $140 million, and that was an astronomical price tag then, right? But now he's buying players for the same amount. He just or other teams are buying players for the same amount, right? And so the price tag of this whole industry is raised astronomically. >> Okay, you cannot talk about heartbreak. I I am a New York fan and it doesn't matter. At least the Giants we can remember in this lifetime, but Jets, I mean you there are people who have been born who haven't known a winning team. So we cornered the market on heartbreak. So So I that should make you feel a little bit better. >> So it does. >> Um so okay, so this was an area. So we also I think we've been watching by the way those price tags. Um but this is an area that's opening up you say. So what what's changing and why is this something now that maybe more of us can think about getting involved in as a diversification play? >> Right. Well there's still only a handful of funds that are out there that accredited investors can get into which you have to make certain marks to be able to qualify for these funds. However, if you if you do, your price tag to get in can be as low as $50,000 to have a minority share of these teams. Some of these funds own, let's say, four NBA teams. And not only the franchise of the team, but all of their business model that they put in behind their team, they own. >> And that's just one form of way of getting into these investments. You see the Green Bay Packers, right? There's their diehard fans that they opened up a nonprofit sector for them to be able to buy into the team and have a shareholder portion and that's just going really well for them and it gives liquidity to their ownership partners who have been in for a lifetime and everyone gets just a a fractional share. No controlling part of the team at all. You don't get to say, you don't get to write plays. You don't get to talk to the owner. It's just kind of having a little nugget into these teams instead of maybe the stock market. Thankfully though, if you're not an accredit investor, you can get into the market. There's a a couple that are probably bigger names than the soccer leagues that offer stock market uh tickers, but Manchester United, that's a big one that even young investors that are love that love soccer can get into and just track and start to learn. or you look at Madison Square Garden Sports, that's a little bit higher price tag, but something that retail investors can get into very easily. So, tell me a little bit more. So, I understand that, you know, buying a a publicly traded stock like that and I think we've all watched with with a lot of joy over the years uh Packers Nation and the and you know, the sort of amazing culture that's built around that fractional ownership. What is the other accredited investor route? Because there will certainly be some people who are sitting here who might want to understand what that is. So how does that exactly work? Is it like a private equity type play? I mean what how does that function? >> It's a little bit like a private equity. Yes. And so if you can get into one of these funds, let's use Blue for example. Blue Owl owns four teams and all that they encompass. And those four teams then might sell at some point. Like one example is the Phoenix Suns. They were in this fund, but someone else bought them and they remove themselves from the fund. You're still an owner of the fund, not the Phoenix Suns anymore, but you get that minority share. When you get into that, you can get into it as an individual investor. the minimum was about a million dollars if you had the right connections to get in. But if you're part of this bigger fund group, um you can get in for $50,000 and they pull that money together to accumulate multiple millions and become one kind of group that gets in, if that makes sense. >> Yeah, it does. >> So they pull their money together. >> Yeah. And I think that's what's been changing is some of these sort of structures now that allow for that. um seem like they're a little bit newer. So is owning if if if I said think this is something for me because I I can see where we'd be attracted to it because as I said we're all a lot of us are sports fans of some sort. Pick your sport is owning and when I'm making that decision is owning a piece of a sports franchise different how should what should we be thinking of? What should be we be aware of when you're we're making that kind of decision? >> Right. And that's a really good question because each sports league is actually a little bit different. We've had NFL teams cross our desk, NHL, things like that, and those are a little bit more evaluated on their their broadcasts or their ticket sales or their media rights, right? But the latest one that came across our desk was about the NBA and we found it incredibly intriguing because of the branches that it owns outside of the team. So when you're looking at these investments, you have to see what their valuations are and why they're valuing them that way. So the NBA right now, for example, you can look at a spiderweb chart and you'll see that they own their WNBA team. They own their arena. They own all of their meteorites. They own their um they own their practice facility. They even own sometimes five miles around their arena. So now you're talking about owning real estate with it. And so you own the restaurants, the parking garages, the apartment complexes all around it. You have a fractional share in all of that when you own the team. And so those are pretty powerful things that not only are you getting into this fund for the team itself, you're getting into how much they've made their own industry of business around the team. This October, Wealthian's putting the spotlight on silver with expert interviews, deep analysis, and a special in-depth report from our partners at SCP Resource Finance. To receive this report and other exclusive benefits, you can sign up to become an accredited investor with Wealthon at wealthon.comacredited or by finding the link in the description below. Speaking of silver, Wealthon will be on the ground in Toronto for the SCP Resource Finance Second Global Silver Conference happening on Thursday, October 23rd. Legendary investor Eric Sprat headlines the event alongside 15 silver mining companies presenting their top projects. It's a must attend for anyone serious about investing in silver. Tickets both in person and virtual are now available. Find out more in the description below. Yeah. So, is there a sense that, you know, when we do the due diligence, I'm I'm thinking of, you know, if you look at a company, you're going to say, "What's the earnings? What's the cash flow? What's the What are the things that make a sports team valuable?" >> Well, like I just said, real estate is a big factor in making it valuable. Then the media is is really what we're looking at. If you look back from 2014 to 2015, there were a lot of media rights behind the NBA going on and they made a huge contract deal that skyrocketed growth of all evaluations of each team almost by a so 74% margin. So they really scaled up by just using media. And now when you look at things that are going under contract like esports trying to get into the gaming sector or sports betting and you start to see these contracts come into play with all these teams, you know, there has to be growth or the NFL, they're looking at more global expansion into London. There's speculation with Mexico City >> that is just growth that the valuations will exceedingly go up if if these go through. Yeah. Yeah. So, there's lots of areas and sectors to look at. >> I think you're really talking about that. You know, the thing that makes it super interesting is the brand loyalty and the sort of um connection with the fans. I suppose that's sort of an extra element in this. >> Oh, 100%. Like you just got emotional talking about your team, right? We have I've been a Cowboys fan mainly because my dad was and now my daughter is because of me and my daughter's more into the Cowboys than I ever actually was. I liked it because of my dad. And then Troy Aman, of course, what young girl didn't fall in love with the Cowboys just watching him. Um, it the fandom is just such an emotional stickiness to these investments that even if your team loses and loses and loses and loses, you still have this like glimmer of hope that something is going to happen that's magical and they're going to win everything one day, you're not going to sell your shares the next day because your team lost. you're going to wake up the next day, maybe not wear the shirt, but you will the next week when they're playing again. And so that that emotional stickiness is real. And I think it's one that can actually really help investors start to get in and start to educate them. Like my son, he turns on ESPN every morning, gets his little fix of all his stats, and just putting him in a sliver of Madison Square Garden can start to open the conversation of investment. and he's going to be he's going to be into it way more than any other stock that we could talk about because of the emotional stickiness. >> Yeah, it's it's really interesting to think about that emotional stickiness because it when you're especially when you're looking for diversification and durability, which is something we're all talking about more when it comes to our portfolios. Um it's a sort of a different calculation and a super interesting one because we've seen everything wax and wayne things become popular unpopular but the the power of sports is one of the really lasting kind of cultural um trends that I think just we've just seen you know move in one direction. So that's super interesting. So I I could see a flip side though, right? So that's the appeal and I could and and certainly um it's this is the kind of you know thing that you want to dive into and if you can support your team and there's like I said before marrying passion and profit. I could also see where that could go the other way though when you're trying to determine the risks because you're thinking with your heart I guess and not your head. So are there risks that we need to consider in this area? What do we need to be aware of? always right. When you hear alternative investment, your red flag should definitely go on a little bit and do more due diligence, do more research on what the downfalls are. Most alternative investments, you say, "I'm going to get in. I'm not going to put my life savings in, but I'm going to dabble and I know that I could get nothing back or just my principal and be okay with that." So, that's a little factor with alternative investments. Now, these have a history of growth and valuation increases that are are very um attractive, but to do that, you have to hold your money in there for a very long time and let these contracts like meteorites and this global expansion play out. It's not something you're going to wake up every morning, turn on your phone, and see that your valuation just skyrocketed and make a sell. It's not going to be like that. It's going to be a long-term play. We have viewers we're talking to right now that weren't even born when Jerry Jones bought the Cowboys for 140 billion. And today it's worth $9 billion approximately. That's a lifetime for some of us. And you have to know that this investment will work the same exact way. You have to be patient. You have to not think of this as a liquid play. >> That's a great point. They probably also um only know Troy Aman as a an announcer and a playbyplay as a we're dating ourselves, Bernie. But we are. >> Do you do the teams have to be successful for it to be a good do they have to win on the pitch or on the field for it to be a good investment? >> No. That's the funny thing is as long as their viewership, their media contracts play out, as long as all of their other investments do well, so do you. So, they're going to get returns on those restaurants, those parking garages, those apartment complexes of their real estate alone. And then if esports start to get really good, which is uh just a digital digital arena, these kids that don't even watch the team start to become fans through their own devices. And then you have betting. People don't need to love a team to bet against them. you see March Madness, which isn't professional, but in Vegas, March Madness is crazy busy just because there's all these groups of guys and girls who go and they sports bet all day long because they love that energy and adrenaline. So, there's so many factors where even if the team does poorly, there's another team that's doing well, the competition, the the camaraderie, the emotional stickiness never goes away. Uh so when you're talking about long-term investment have a long horizon, I'm also going to guess that um we need to think about things like liquidity. So if all of a sudden I'm I'm I'm go through one of these I find a fund I get into. Is it the kind of thing that I can exit quickly or along with the time horizon do I have to think about liquidity issues? >> Liquidity is definitely an issue with something like this and getting into professional sports teams. Funny enough, the reason why these are becoming more open is because the legacy owners in them can't pull any of the money out to use for different investments or their own lifestyle. And so they've started to get more strategic of not losing controlling ownership of their team, but giving fractional shares out so that they even get their liquidity. So, if the legacy owners need liquidity, you better think twice that you're not going to see any liquidity because you're not going to be able to sell your shares like they're doing right now. You're going to be locked in for whatever the the deck and the contract and the sub subd documents tell you they are, which is only a rough estimate. So, the last contract we got into in subdocs, it said expect a 10-year minimum hold. That means that don't expect your money before that decade comes comes to mature. >> Yeah. Which is by the way like that's not a negative. That's just understand what you're getting into and maybe you want something especially if the valuations continue to grow that you don't have to worry about but as a diversifier. Um but you just have to understand the role it's playing. Um >> correct. Thank you. And also another thing on that, if if you don't want to do this, we work with a a lot of high netw worth families that they're thinking of legacy plays. And what better than to give a graduation present of we're going to put you into this fund for $50,000. Yeah, nice gift, right? Yeah, you graduate 50,000, but you can't touch it until it matures. You're investing in that child's not only education of finance, but you're giving your legacy funds not only to a better tax bracket most likely where when it does mature, they're not paying your 40% 37% tax, but it will mature at a really great time for those kids. It's a great legacy play. >> Yeah. And a fun one as well, as we talked about. No >> kidding. >> Uh what is So, so it sounds like from everything you're talking about, you really see this as a growth area. I think you I think you hinted on a couple things that you're enthusiastic about, but where do you see this going? What are you watching as future drivers of growth here? >> Yeah, you know, all these media and global contracts we're seeing right now are the biggest things we're keeping our eye on. And the NFL, like I already mentioned, looking at London, speculation around Mexico City, we have our finger on that one just to see what a good entry point would be. The WNBA has had a cyclical three-year cycle where it it's really predictable. However, with all the new happenings and the the noise behind it, maybe that could change and become more of a steady increase up. So, we're keeping our eye on that, too. And then always that digital play. So, the esports are just always kind of something we want to look at. And then the digital betting it's it's it's going to skyrocket the more AI gets better, the more these analysts figure things out. You see in I have a couple investors now that have been kicked out of DraftKings because they partner with analytics and they figure out the algorithm that they make too much money and they get kicked out of these little websites because they're doing so well. It's it's crazy. So there has to be more marketability in that. Motorsports, um, those are really closed off right now. NASCAR, very, very legacy and ownership driven, that could change. And once those change, that could be a really great play. There's so much money and equity behind those. It's it's insane. Think about the demographics of that crowd, right? You have the people that tailgate for days and days before the Indy500 and it's just louder outside of the stadium sometimes than in it. But then the owners are billionaires. So the diversification of fandom there is huge. And then just the institutional capital rotation that's a little bit more complex and higher level, but all those areas are just things to watch out for, I would say. >> Fantastic stuff. Um, Brandy, this was so fun because I've been thinking about it a lot and it really it really was something that was just like, okay, you you build your company, you sell it, you buy a sports franchise, the Mark Cuban, Stevie Cohen with the Mets, or it was the Green Bay Packers. Like, it felt like that's all there was. And I think we all sense that that's changing. So, certainly seems like something that we should um take a look at when we're thinking about areas of investment, not just something we do on the weekend. So, thank you so much for putting it in front of us. appreciate it. >> Absolutely. Thanks for your time. >> So, some uh financial planning we can all finally be enthusiastic about. Uh it's a really fun discussion. Thanks so much, Brandy. And um just a reminder again, if you if you're not looking at this area and you want to or you just want to, you know, get a sense of where what are your options? If you want to diversify, you can get a free portfolio review from one of the Windrock team members. Just hit the link in the description below or head over to wealthyon.comfree. Thanks so much for watching. We'll see you again next time. >> Thank you.