Critical Asset Powering The World Has Severe Shortage; Price Explosion Next? | M. Colin Jourdrie
Summary
Copper Market: Bullish outlook with prices near record highs driven by tight supply-demand balances and recent disruptions at major mines like Grasberg and El Teniente.
Critical Minerals: Copper framed as a critical mineral essential for defense, data centers, housing, and electrification, with governments increasingly supportive of responsible mining.
Commodity Supercycle: Parallel drawn to the 2000s cycle, with global electrification, data centers, and grid upgrades suggesting robust copper demand well into the mid-2030s.
US Onshoring: National security concerns and policy support highlight efforts to secure domestic supply chains and reduce reliance on foreign refining centers.
Underinvestment & Delays: Years of underinvestment, lengthy permitting, and long equipment lead times make rapid supply response difficult, sustaining the copper shortage theme.
Equities vs. Metal: Copper miners’ shares have lagged the metal due to operational underperformance, aging assets, and declining grades, but mid-tiers could close the gap with execution.
Selkirk Copper (Yukon): A restart-focused project producing high-grade concentrate and offering geographic diversification, targeting production around 2028 with strong First Nation partnership.
Gold Linkage: Copper-gold co-deposits and an extinguished gold/silver stream improve project economics, offering dual exposure as gold strength enhances valuation.
Transcript
There's a part of me that would love to see $6 copper. This is maybe the first time in my career, and I've been at this for about 35 years, where governments are actually saying we need mining. Any disruption on the supply side has an outside sort of um view in in the pricing of the commodity. With two of the world's biggest mines going down recently in terms of copper production, that just is exacerbating the current situation. We're talking now about one of the most critical minerals in the world, one of the most critical and scarce assets. And we'll reveal what it is in just a minute. But our guest today is Colin Judrey. He is the CEO of Selkerk Copper. And I guess by the name of the company, people figured out we're talking about copper today. So, welcome to the show, Colin. It's good to see you. And copper is unique in a lot of senses because it tracks not just the economy, but it also tracks gold. And I'd like to understand what are the drivers of not just the base metals but also the broader economy today. So uh copper miners and producers and explorers and developers are at the center at the crux of economic development because copper is such a critical mineral that's needed for pretty much everything. So welcome to the show Colin. Uh tell us about uh your views on the copper market as it stands today. Right now we're looking at $5.40 40 cents 39 cents a pound and the copper price has just been continuing to go up all year round all year long and we're pretty much at all-time highs now. I wonder if this is going to contribute significantly to inflation given that like I mentioned in the beginning copper is an input for um construction uh materials uh semiconductors electronics defense the US has labeled it a critical mineral because of defense and national security and um housing uh residential construction everything data centers so it the fact that it's gone up this much we we'll talk about where it may head maybe headed from here, but the fact that it's gone up this much, I'm a little bit concerned about inflation. What do you think? >> Yeah, I mean, well, I mean, first, your your leadin to the importance of copper to basically modern life is really the sort of driver here. And this isn't just something that's happened in the last few months, although we're obviously seeing it reflected in price today. This is this is something that's now been going on for the better part of a decade, if not longer. I love a phrase that a former colleague used to say, you know, the cloud is powered by copper. It's it's it's gets into every single thing that we sort of do. But to your point around sort of inflation, I I think what what we're really sort of talking about is just this supply demand imbalance that's sort of built up over the last few years. As you know very well and I'm sure your audience does too, the the market is kind of in balance. But the reality is any disruption from some of the major minds really has an outsized impact today because it's so tightly um connected. The demand and the supply are so tightly connected. Any disruption on the supply side has an outsized sort of um view in in the pricing of the commodity. And again, I think as your viewers know, with two of the world's biggest mines going down recently in terms of copper production, both Grassburg in in uh Southeast Asia and El Teniente in Chile, that just is exacerbating the current situation. When I think about inflation, you know, at the end of the day, everything is getting more expensive day in and day out, but I think this is it. It probably shouldn't really impact your and my sort of day-to-day consumption of things cuz the reality is it's such a utilitarian metal. We need it. It does what it needs to do. We should be able to afford the cost of putting it into our homes and and into our electronics, etc. I'm I'm not that worried about it. It's tough to replace, too, right? There's not really much out there that can substitute easily for copper. >> Are you worried about the supply issue? This is a statement from uh mining mogul Robert Freeland. He's been saying this for quite some time now >> uh that copper is like we said critical but also faces a shortage. So in this article uh from October 2025 says over the next 18 years uh Freeland warns humanity will need to mine as much copper as it has over the past 10,000 years combined to sustain even modest economic growth. Freeland's message repeated over years of public appearances has proven appreciated this is the revenge of the old economy. He said in 2021 for decades not enough capital has gone into finding the metals we need for the energy transformation. Let's just evaluate this. I mean his forecast aside uh by the way so he's making a forecast of uh 15,000 tons uh sorry $15,000 per ton copper and we're roughly at around 11,000 right now. So uh about 40 to 50% higher prices according to uh his estimates but the the statement here I want you to focus on is why the um not enough capital has gone into this metal that we need for the energy transformation. Is that true? >> Yeah. >> I think it is I think it is true. I think it's both on the exploration side of the industry as well as in terms of new production and even augmenting existing production. I think there's a variety of factors that have led to that. Some of it is, you know, we we talk about it in maybe not the most flattering light, but permitting timelines have impacted our ability as an industry to get projects through that sort of uh investment decision timeline. That's part of it, but I also think sometimes our industry, we wait a little bit too long. We wait a little bit too long about making those decisions because we're always we're not in control of the price, right? So, we're really exposed to that. But I think we're now in a position where there's no option. We we need to bring some of these projects forward. And the reality is it's small, medium, and large that contribute to the whole picture here. I think our industry, the mining industry in general has spent far too much time focusing on these very, very large, complex, capitalyintensive projects. And there's been a lack of attention to what I would call still very good quality investments, highquality opportunities to bring incremental copper to play. and those have really been underinvested as well. So, it's it's a bit of a perfect storm in all honesty. Um, I think the prices right now are very robust. They're good. Um, they should be a very strong incentive for the industry to invest and I think we're starting to see that in a little bit uh more meaningful way, but the reality is it's probably a little bit too late. So, you're going to see some price increases going forward. I don't know if Robert's prediction will be true, but he's absolutely right. it's been underinvested and and our job now is to bring good rational projects to the table that can get into production quickly and and hopefully we can do that. >> What is your view on the timing of this supply crunch if it is happening? Investors have been hearing anything between 2026 to 2030 and beyond depending on the research report. Uh what does the data that you've looked at suggest? >> I mean I guess my background is I've been across this industry for a number of years. There's always this sort of supply gap demand sort of conversation. Uh they used to call it the zinc gap in zinc. They called it the copper gap in copper. You know, I I think that we're sort of in a bit of a protracted space here. I I don't know if it's a three or four year phenomena. As as you know, it takes several years to a permit and then actually several years to construct some of these big operations. If we really as an industry got focused on this today and made all the investment decisions today, you still need about 10 to 12 very large producers to come online by 2030 and then 10 to 12 every year after that to really meet this supply demand uh gap. So it's it's it's a tough one to to get across. David >> well help us understand the entire process from it to suppose the government let's say the US and or Canadian governments were to say well given that copper is a critical mineral at least it's been declared a critical mineral in the US what do we do about it if they were to let's say start a mine or maybe nationalize an existing mine or project or start their own could they bring a deposit online in the next 3 to four years removing all bureaucratic red tape because it's their own mine for this hypothetical example here. >> It It's a really interesting hypothetical. I would say that probably is about as fast as it could possibly happen. You've got to go out, you've got to um a make sure that the resources properly defined. Let's assume you're partway there, but you still have to go secure the capital. You got to get uh the actual equipment. Several of these long lead times items, some of them are two two and a half years for the big mills and the big motors that uh drive the the milling infrastructure. Even the truck fleets that are supplied by some of the biggest, you know, truck operators in the world, they are 12, 18, 24 months time lead times on those. And then you stack all that up, you still also have to get the people to the site. You have to get all of the gear, the concrete, the steel. These are major major projects. you know, some of these bigger ones, they're investing 6 8 and 10 billion US to get 300,000 tons of copper produced. And it, you know, it's taking about 4 to 5 years just to go through the construction process. These are complicated, right? We're we're not also just talking about the mine. You're often also talking about water, water pipelines, power transmission, and ports. So, we're not only uh faced with the mining side, which I think the industry can deal with, but you're also faced with all of those other ancillary things, right? In some parts of the world, we're building highways. We're building pipelines. We're building dewatering or desalination plants. It's getting more and more complex because the demands are higher. So, I theoretically, could you do it in four years? You might be able to, but you're probably about the best in the business if you do it in four. So given that the theor let's just for in this example the theoretical fastest time is 3 to four years. Why is it that the private sector is taking so much more time? What's the what what's holding them back? >> Uh a little bit of fear probably. I mean I think you know there's a bit of a track record in our industry recently where costs have been significantly higher than than people have anticipated. I think the timelines around getting all those people together and all that sort of working capital lined up have taken a little bit longer. Um, and then I I do truly think we're tending to try to make things a little bit too big and take on too much. So, you know, the industry is very good at doing what it does, but right now there's a lot of things getting in our way. Um, and you know, I I do think we can all get better at permitting. We can all get better at discussions with community and First Nations. Um but the reality is we do have to make some decisions and we have to get on with it. Um I I believe strongly that the industry can respond but we do need a little bit of a shift change. I think this is this is maybe the first time in my career and I've been at this for about 35 years where governments are actually saying we need mining. They they've sort of said it quietly before. They like the jobs that it provides. But it's been rare in my lifetime where I've seen politicians standing up in just about every sector of the world saying critical minerals are important. We need mining. We need responsible mining and we need it now. I haven't seen that in the way that I've seen it right now today. >> Just in the why issue. So this is a statement from the White House back in uh the summertime right before they implemented tariffs on copper which they later took off. So says here, based on the facts considered in the investigation uh section 232 of the trade expansion act of 1962, the secretary found and advised me of his opinion that copper is being imported into the United States in such quantities and under such circumstances as to threaten to impair the national security of the United States. Why has it been the case that the US has shifted from a market consumer mentality when it comes to copper and other base metals to now a national security concern? >> Yeah, I I probably am not the per right person to answer that question to tell you the truth, but but I think it's just this broader sentiment as people are are stepping up and having conversations about where the raw materials are that we use as a society, where do they come from, who's benefiting from it, etc. I think the conversation in the United States is rightly sort of saying, "Wait a second. Do we control our destiny?" You know, it's it's it's probably high time that the onshoring happens that the administration is looking for and that reinvestment in the US happens in the way that they they're hoping. But I think this is a broader broader sort of issue. We we are sort of faced with a supply crunch and and the reality is this is a critical material to everything that we do in modern life whether it's military or your cell phone like this this is a metal that drives a lot of that and it's a lot more fun if you know where it's coming from and and you feel secure in that uh in that position. I personally am of the view that the world mining industry functions very well in terms of making metal available to where it needs to go. the recent sort of geopolitical sort of changes that we see in front of us right now or maybe throwing that a little bit of a curveball but you know as from where I come from I know that people I work with are good at getting the rock out of the ground in a cost-effective and reliable way and getting the product to market what happens after that you know quite honestly is is someone else's business I hope we do it well though >> some copper equities have lagged behind the metal itself though this year why do you think that uh investor capital hasn't flowed into the equities as much as perhaps the metal itself and I think the same could be said for gold and silver although we have seen the GDX and GDXJ caught up significantly >> it has caught up for sure I I think the major copper producers in the world are are struggling a little bit with growth right so it it's great to see the the response on the price side but many of the big operations in the world are underperforming so let's say guidance was 100,000 tons of copper and you hit 90 well the markets tend to be a bit disappointed with that and you don't get that connect between the price and the production because you know the mines are getting older, they're getting deeper. Just as you said, grades are coming down a little bit. So, it's really a bit of a challenge for for the big operators to live up to the promise that the price is presenting. I I do think that that changes over time. I think as you see some of the not just bigger players but mid-tiers and even the company that you know I'm working for at the moment and and leading um we can deliver against that promise but we do have to get at it. >> Do you think it's a matter of operations like you said where maybe the incentive price just needs to be higher maybe closer to $6 a pound before producers start to really ramp up output? Gosh, I I you know, there's a part of me that would love to see $6 copper, but there's also a part of me that says, let's just I mean, the incentive price right now at $5, 515, 540 today, that's a great incentive price. If it goes that much higher, I think you start to get a bit of aberant behavior in terms of how people think and they may actually do things that they shouldn't do. They may shortcut safety. they may shortcut some of the necessary uh safety uh programs around geotechnical issues, tailings management, etc. I would really not want to see that uh and sacrifice for price. So, at the end of the day, it's a bit of both, but um you know, $6 copper would be great, but but I think in some regards that might actually be too high, and it's hard for me to say that, but I I do think we have to be a bit careful about high high prices. And other mistakes may include deals that are unfavorable to either party. >> Shareholders. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. You know what do they call it? The red mist. Like it it everything's good when prices in your favor and everything doesn't look so good when it's not. We have to remember that this is a cyclical business. It's a cyclical commodity. I do think the trend is very positive. I think the fundamentals are better than I've seen for a long time. So I don't expect to see these big uh cycles that we may be seen in the last 10 to 15 years but we always have to recognize this is a cyclical business. I don't control the price so I have to manage my business accordingly. >> Uh this is a good point and it brings me to next question on cycles itself. So some people have called this the beginning of a commodity super cycle. uh what are your views on this and importantly how is this time different than let's say the 2000s when there was another back then a big bull run in the copper complex uh primarily from China really >> yeah look again I think that that's a really important reference point that early 2000 period to about 2010 was the last sort of big super cycle in the commodities business or at least the hard commodities like copper zinc lead um etc and and it was driven by this real massive industrialization push and and um investment in mainland China around a whole bunch of things really the movement of people in all honesty um I think what we're seeing now is not too different except it's a global recognition of this increased per capita utilization of copper you know in the early 2000s although we had some early versions of iPhones and whatnot we didn't have the data center pushes that we had then we didn't have the really intense last mile sort of copper uh delivery and increased sort of transmission requirements that um you know green energy is bringing on whether it's solar panels or um wind turbines etc. All of that is is augmenting and increasing the sort of demand crunch that we're currently in. So it's a little different than the early 2000s but I think the fundamental outcome is the same. We need to catch up with supply. Supply is lagging. price is going up and and it's going to be hard to catch up to that deficit. It really is. I think we're going to see this probably a little longer than that 2030 time frame that you referred to. My expectation is you're going to see robust prices well into the 20 mid 2030s. >> Uh your mind let's talk about so copper now. I think there's a broader thesis of diversification away from the primary copper production centers and the primary refining center which is China. China accounts for most of the refining in the world. Latin America accounts for most of the copper production in the world. So, how does Selker copper fit into this diversification thesis? >> Well, I I think there's there's two ways in my view. Um, the first is it's it's a modest uh size potential future producer, but it's going to produce a very high grade quality and quality concentrate. So, the world sort of average when you look at the big concentrate producers is sort of in that 28 to 30% copper grade. The product that comes out of this mine historically and that that we would forecast going forward is more like 38 to 40% copper. So that grade differential makes it a very boutique and bespoke product for the market and it can fit in to a lot of different end enduser sort of model. So smelters like higher grade copper for a variety of reasons. It's less intensive to process. It's less costly. You get more bang for your buck that. So that's an important part of that. And this type of product really fits into that industrial requirement going forward. The second thing is geographical sort of diversification. It's Pacific Rim facing. It's got a great historical clientele base um from past producers. The Japanese are very familiar with this concentrate. They like it a lot. It's been sold into Japan and Korea in the past and even parts of Europe just because it's such a high-grade uh uh concentrate. So that actually diversifies the overall trade flows. It's not going to solve the the the supply crunch. It's not that big a mine, but it will add to it. And our view is that we can get this back into production in the next few years by 2028. So we're not actually waiting for 2030 or 2032. So it's what I call incremental value added copper supply in the short term. It's a really interesting opportunity. >> Okay. Tell us about the deposit itself. Where is it base, the size, and you mentioned the gray. give us a bit more detail. >> Yeah, for sure. So, this is a a former producing mine. It's located in the central Yukon uh northern territory here in Canada. Um and it's about halfway between the capital city, White Horse, and Dawson on one of the major road arteries in in the province known as the Klondike Highway. It's a deposit that was first discovered in the mid70s. It was brought into production by a group called Sherwood Copper and then Capstone Copper in 2007 and it operated quite well up till about 2019 and then it sort of it came to the end of its then mine life and it transitioned into care and maintenance and then a new producer uh new operator acquired the asset in 2019 and they sort of rushed it back into production. They unfortunately weren't unable to really realize the true value of the operation. They were unable to fill the mill that the in the way that they intended and effectively they ran out of money and they went bankrupt. Long story short, it's a good asset with really substantial investments in capital and and equipment above ground. It's got road, power, plant, facilities, camp, etc. And what's happened in this bankruptcy is that we've been able to acquire it at a fairly low cost. That's often happens in bankruptcies. And our job now is to put forth a rational and thoughtful development program so we can get to that restart decision in 2028 or 2027 for production in 2028. The acid itself is a very simple sort of calcyite and borite bearing uh granatoid like minerals um or granitoid like deposit. Um good grades sort of in that 1 to 1 and 1.5% copper but there are portions of the deposit um that are actually in the sort of 6 to 8 and even sometimes 10% over minable widths and that's what's really drives the economics of the asset. Um the other thing to note is that it's got very good gold and silver credits. So about 65% of the value of ore is in copper and 35% is in gold and silver. And right now we're looking at a totally different sort of economic thesis. When it last operated in May of 2023, the price of gold, as you know, was about half of what it was today. Same thing with silver. And in all honesty, copper was about $2.5 lower. So it's a different economic thesis here about the restart. And and the beauty of what I see in front of us is we've got a good resource base. We've got about uh 36 million tons of indicated and inferred on a combined basis of around that 1 to 1.5% copper. On a copper equivalent basis, it's more like 1.7 to almost 2%. And our job really is to just further define those resources, convert the inferred into indicated, get it into measured over the next 18 months, and then and then make that restart decision. I'm very optimistic that we are going to make a 12 to 15 year mine life here out of the resources that we have and that we're going to advance that in a timely fashion. >> Can you just go back to the history? So you mentioned the previous management went operator went into bankruptcy and then it was revived. Just tell us about that. >> Why did it go into bankruptcy? What lessons can we learn from from that? Yeah. >> Well, I I think the main lesson that I've been telling people is um you need a plan to make a plan. So, uh, the previous operator unfortunately rushed back into production on this asset and unfortunately uh, some of the things that they assumed about their ability to produce from both an open pit and an underground didn't come to pass and they were only able to fill the mill about 50%. So, one of the things that we've learned from that experience is that we're not rushing back into production. We're going to take a very deliberate and thoughtful approach here. We've got three things that we're doing. We're uh refining and better defining the resources. So, we've got a big drill campaign underway. We're doing baseline engineering and design work such that we've got a really good understanding of what those new mine plans are on an integrated basis. And then concurrently with that, we're reinitiating permitting to make sure that we have holistic fully integrated permits for that restart decision. And you know, that's that should sound pretty rational to most of your investors. That's basically what we're doing. We're making a plan to make a restart plan. Someone told me the other day, so you're measuring twice to cut once. That's basically what we're doing. And and our job here is to just do it in as cost effective and timely a way as we can. And and and we will get there. I'm very confident of that. The other thing that's really interesting about this um acquisition out of bankruptcy, our First Nation partner, which is known as Selkerk First Nation, and they are the landholders under which this asset lies. Um they've been part of this operation for a long time. They acquired the asset out of bankruptcy and then made the decision to partner with the industry to bring it back into production in a rational way. So, it's a really interesting story from a social perspective and a permanent perspective because of their involvement and that's one of the really key uh tenants of of our opportunity here. >> I'm curious as to why First Nations um decided to get involved. There's this common um if you want to call it a stereotype or perhaps misconception that the First Nations do not support mining in their backyard at all and here we are seeing the exact opposite. >> Well, I I think just like you and I We appreciate people who do things well. I think the First Nation in this instance uh they they believe there is an environmentally responsible and sustainable way to operate this asset and they they've seen it where it's operated well and they've seen it where it maybe has been operated less well and they've just taken the brave decision that they want to be part of that decision-making process. They don't want to just uh you know get an NSR payment etc. They want this as a true opportunity for their nation going forward. I don't think they would be happy if it was irresponsible mining. As a matter of fact, I know that's the case. Um, but neither would you. If it was in your backyard, you would probably say, "I don't I don't need that." But, but what's really neat here is they believe it can be done well. I believe it can be done well and it can meet their highest requirements and standards. We just have to to work together to get there. So if copper sustains let's say this current range $5 to $6 a pound uh how does that change sir copper how does that change the scale and speed at which you develop your assets? >> I I don't know if it's going to change the speed. I think we're going to take this disciplined approach to it. Um we you know the work needs to get done. We can't substitute the work that needs to get done. We have to carry that out. But what I do think it does is I do think it changes the way that we finance that restart decision. I think we have a really good opportunity here to maximize the value of the concentrate offtake that we have that's a part of our uh ownership piece to you know minimize dilution in that restart decision. I also think it brings different players to the table than we might have seen in the past. You're already seeing some you know investments directly by governments in Canada in the US on things like road and infrastructure that will help us get there. I do think that that changes the landscape a little bit, probably takes the burden off us and then makes our investment decision just a little bit easier. Um, but I I don't think it makes it faster. You know, one of the things I've learned in my uh history in the industry is good work begets more good work, but you can't not do the work. You got to do the work, right? >> Well, your deposits are also part gold as well, if I'm not mistaken. So, tell us about how the gold price and current market impacts your operations, if any. I mean, gold is at an unprecedented level and I wonder if sentiment around gold mining has impacted sentiment around copper and in particular uh copper gold projects like yourself. >> Well, I I you know, it's really interesting. You started off the conversation that often copper and gold come together. The reality is geology tells us that most of the big uh deposits in the world or many of them are copper gold deposits and and you're even seeing the gold companies recognizing that trying to get exposure to some of the copper deposits like they weren't maybe a few years ago. So that's a real recognition around that. For us the the biggest driver of value in this restart is there was a former uh gold silver stream on this asset. So all of the gold and silver effectively that was in the ore was sold off to a streaming company and and it really didn't benefit the overall economics. It was part of it but not so much. That stream was extinguished in the bankruptcy. Very rare but it was a contractual arrangement between the streaming company and the operator that fell away during the um bankruptcy. And so we now have the benefit for the first time since 2007. We own all the copper, the gold, and the silver in a ton of ore. And that changes the way that we will operate. Now we can value fully the gold and silver in how we do our resource modeling, our operations plans, and our concentrate production. And we could really work hard to maximize gold recovery. Just the value of the gold and silver at average production rates going forward in average grades from the past. That's worth to us about $40 million US if we just apply the last 6 months of gold and silver prices. like it's a really significant change for this company going forward is that we now benefit from that. >> Do you think that the explosion in gold and silver has cannibalized the copper industry in the sense that capital has shifted to other metals and away from uh base metals and critical minerals? Is that has that happened at all? >> Um I I don't think so. I haven't I haven't really heard that sort of phraseology before, David. But but I I do think what it does is it actually enhances the view around a copper asset like this one. People will now say, "Hey, I can get copper and gold exposure from this equity and I can get the upside in both." So from my perspective, it it's actually a good thing. You know, if I go back early in my career, that was actually how many producers used to sell their um assets or sell their production profile. It was rare that it was I'm a sole copper producer. I'm a sole gold producer. I think the cycle now 30 years later is coming back to the benefits of diversity in your metal suite in a in a particular deposit and copper and gold. They very synergistic geologically. >> Uh finally tell us about a few misconceptions about the uh copper industry, mining industry that you've heard that maybe you could clarify for investors. Um well I I mean I think I think one of the biggest ones is we are very much I would call rabid environmentalists and I and I mean that in the most positive way. Most of the folks that I've worked with in the industry in my career they love the outdoors. They respect the environment very deeply and they're doing their best to manage those exposures. And and I think largely what we hear about in the industry are the worst actors and those that have, you know, maybe taken the shortcuts or not really paying the attention the way that they should, but it's like 1% of 1%. I would say the majority of our industry is really really focused on doing things well and being good neighbors in in how we and how we operate and develop these assets. >> Okay. I think I think maybe one of the other misconceptions is you know people often think that that not that it's easy but that you know when we get a mine into production everything is done at that point in time. As a matter of fact in my view that's just when the hard work really starts because now you have to think about how you work with your employees in communities in a really sustainable way. You have to be very very attentive to all the operating requirements. And that's something that I don't think the the investor really sees that much because they only see the problems when the problems surface. They don't see the good when the good's happening. So I I think those might be two misconceptions. I think our industry is quite wellrun. >> Well, let's end on milestones ahead that investors need to be paying attention to for Selker Copper. >> Well, uh, you know, values created on the drill bit. So, we're right now we're about halfway through a 50,000 m drill program. Just in the last 2 days, we released the first results from that drill program. Very positive sort of copper grades, gold grades, and silver grades across minable thicknesses in what's known as the Mento Northwest zone. Um, we've got 98 drill holes. We've only got four for the assays. That news flow is going to continue to come over the next 3 to 4 months. I fully expect to see sort of stage release of these results as we get the assays out into about early April. So that's that's that's coming. I think the other thing that's going on in behind that is we're developing a scoping study that will inform a preliminary economic assessment study that we're targeting sort of in the mid part of 2026 that will be used to inform our investment decision going forward. That will be a big milestone in my view and a real possibility for a reate on on our equity because that will give clarity as to the case going forward and it will give the investor a little bit more line of sight on the economics. >> Excellent. Thank you very much. Tell us where we can find more about you and your organization, Colin. >> Well, uh, you know, the worldwide web, I guess copper.com is is the place to go, but I would also sort of look to uh a few other places. you know, we we do have some news that we put out and and notices on LinkedIn. Uh we've got a Twitter X feed. I think we actually also have a couple other ones. Facebook is coming. Um you know, pay attention to the normal social media, but the website's a great place to start. Um I think the second thing is just look to some of the industry commentary. We we had just recently uh had our sort of coming out party as we started listing the stock on November 4th and it completed our proposed business transaction. But at the Yukon Geoscience Forum, which is an annual get together of the folks in the industry in the Yukon, we had a great opportunity to speak with the audience with the First Nation, myself, and our VP of exploration. I'd look for those types of videos and that type of information cuz it'll give you a bit better insight as to how we're thinking, what we're doing, and the excitement that we have about the opportunity going forward. >> All right, great. We'll put the link down below. So, make sure to follow Colin and Sucker Copper there. Thank you very much for the information. We'll speak again soon. Take care for now, >> David. Thank you very much. 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Critical Asset Powering The World Has Severe Shortage; Price Explosion Next? | M. Colin Jourdrie
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Transcript
There's a part of me that would love to see $6 copper. This is maybe the first time in my career, and I've been at this for about 35 years, where governments are actually saying we need mining. Any disruption on the supply side has an outside sort of um view in in the pricing of the commodity. With two of the world's biggest mines going down recently in terms of copper production, that just is exacerbating the current situation. We're talking now about one of the most critical minerals in the world, one of the most critical and scarce assets. And we'll reveal what it is in just a minute. But our guest today is Colin Judrey. He is the CEO of Selkerk Copper. And I guess by the name of the company, people figured out we're talking about copper today. So, welcome to the show, Colin. It's good to see you. And copper is unique in a lot of senses because it tracks not just the economy, but it also tracks gold. And I'd like to understand what are the drivers of not just the base metals but also the broader economy today. So uh copper miners and producers and explorers and developers are at the center at the crux of economic development because copper is such a critical mineral that's needed for pretty much everything. So welcome to the show Colin. Uh tell us about uh your views on the copper market as it stands today. Right now we're looking at $5.40 40 cents 39 cents a pound and the copper price has just been continuing to go up all year round all year long and we're pretty much at all-time highs now. I wonder if this is going to contribute significantly to inflation given that like I mentioned in the beginning copper is an input for um construction uh materials uh semiconductors electronics defense the US has labeled it a critical mineral because of defense and national security and um housing uh residential construction everything data centers so it the fact that it's gone up this much we we'll talk about where it may head maybe headed from here, but the fact that it's gone up this much, I'm a little bit concerned about inflation. What do you think? >> Yeah, I mean, well, I mean, first, your your leadin to the importance of copper to basically modern life is really the sort of driver here. And this isn't just something that's happened in the last few months, although we're obviously seeing it reflected in price today. This is this is something that's now been going on for the better part of a decade, if not longer. I love a phrase that a former colleague used to say, you know, the cloud is powered by copper. It's it's it's gets into every single thing that we sort of do. But to your point around sort of inflation, I I think what what we're really sort of talking about is just this supply demand imbalance that's sort of built up over the last few years. As you know very well and I'm sure your audience does too, the the market is kind of in balance. But the reality is any disruption from some of the major minds really has an outsized impact today because it's so tightly um connected. The demand and the supply are so tightly connected. Any disruption on the supply side has an outsized sort of um view in in the pricing of the commodity. And again, I think as your viewers know, with two of the world's biggest mines going down recently in terms of copper production, both Grassburg in in uh Southeast Asia and El Teniente in Chile, that just is exacerbating the current situation. When I think about inflation, you know, at the end of the day, everything is getting more expensive day in and day out, but I think this is it. It probably shouldn't really impact your and my sort of day-to-day consumption of things cuz the reality is it's such a utilitarian metal. We need it. It does what it needs to do. We should be able to afford the cost of putting it into our homes and and into our electronics, etc. I'm I'm not that worried about it. It's tough to replace, too, right? There's not really much out there that can substitute easily for copper. >> Are you worried about the supply issue? This is a statement from uh mining mogul Robert Freeland. He's been saying this for quite some time now >> uh that copper is like we said critical but also faces a shortage. So in this article uh from October 2025 says over the next 18 years uh Freeland warns humanity will need to mine as much copper as it has over the past 10,000 years combined to sustain even modest economic growth. Freeland's message repeated over years of public appearances has proven appreciated this is the revenge of the old economy. He said in 2021 for decades not enough capital has gone into finding the metals we need for the energy transformation. Let's just evaluate this. I mean his forecast aside uh by the way so he's making a forecast of uh 15,000 tons uh sorry $15,000 per ton copper and we're roughly at around 11,000 right now. So uh about 40 to 50% higher prices according to uh his estimates but the the statement here I want you to focus on is why the um not enough capital has gone into this metal that we need for the energy transformation. Is that true? >> Yeah. >> I think it is I think it is true. I think it's both on the exploration side of the industry as well as in terms of new production and even augmenting existing production. I think there's a variety of factors that have led to that. Some of it is, you know, we we talk about it in maybe not the most flattering light, but permitting timelines have impacted our ability as an industry to get projects through that sort of uh investment decision timeline. That's part of it, but I also think sometimes our industry, we wait a little bit too long. We wait a little bit too long about making those decisions because we're always we're not in control of the price, right? So, we're really exposed to that. But I think we're now in a position where there's no option. We we need to bring some of these projects forward. And the reality is it's small, medium, and large that contribute to the whole picture here. I think our industry, the mining industry in general has spent far too much time focusing on these very, very large, complex, capitalyintensive projects. And there's been a lack of attention to what I would call still very good quality investments, highquality opportunities to bring incremental copper to play. and those have really been underinvested as well. So, it's it's a bit of a perfect storm in all honesty. Um, I think the prices right now are very robust. They're good. Um, they should be a very strong incentive for the industry to invest and I think we're starting to see that in a little bit uh more meaningful way, but the reality is it's probably a little bit too late. So, you're going to see some price increases going forward. I don't know if Robert's prediction will be true, but he's absolutely right. it's been underinvested and and our job now is to bring good rational projects to the table that can get into production quickly and and hopefully we can do that. >> What is your view on the timing of this supply crunch if it is happening? Investors have been hearing anything between 2026 to 2030 and beyond depending on the research report. Uh what does the data that you've looked at suggest? >> I mean I guess my background is I've been across this industry for a number of years. There's always this sort of supply gap demand sort of conversation. Uh they used to call it the zinc gap in zinc. They called it the copper gap in copper. You know, I I think that we're sort of in a bit of a protracted space here. I I don't know if it's a three or four year phenomena. As as you know, it takes several years to a permit and then actually several years to construct some of these big operations. If we really as an industry got focused on this today and made all the investment decisions today, you still need about 10 to 12 very large producers to come online by 2030 and then 10 to 12 every year after that to really meet this supply demand uh gap. So it's it's it's a tough one to to get across. David >> well help us understand the entire process from it to suppose the government let's say the US and or Canadian governments were to say well given that copper is a critical mineral at least it's been declared a critical mineral in the US what do we do about it if they were to let's say start a mine or maybe nationalize an existing mine or project or start their own could they bring a deposit online in the next 3 to four years removing all bureaucratic red tape because it's their own mine for this hypothetical example here. >> It It's a really interesting hypothetical. I would say that probably is about as fast as it could possibly happen. You've got to go out, you've got to um a make sure that the resources properly defined. Let's assume you're partway there, but you still have to go secure the capital. You got to get uh the actual equipment. Several of these long lead times items, some of them are two two and a half years for the big mills and the big motors that uh drive the the milling infrastructure. Even the truck fleets that are supplied by some of the biggest, you know, truck operators in the world, they are 12, 18, 24 months time lead times on those. And then you stack all that up, you still also have to get the people to the site. You have to get all of the gear, the concrete, the steel. These are major major projects. you know, some of these bigger ones, they're investing 6 8 and 10 billion US to get 300,000 tons of copper produced. And it, you know, it's taking about 4 to 5 years just to go through the construction process. These are complicated, right? We're we're not also just talking about the mine. You're often also talking about water, water pipelines, power transmission, and ports. So, we're not only uh faced with the mining side, which I think the industry can deal with, but you're also faced with all of those other ancillary things, right? In some parts of the world, we're building highways. We're building pipelines. We're building dewatering or desalination plants. It's getting more and more complex because the demands are higher. So, I theoretically, could you do it in four years? You might be able to, but you're probably about the best in the business if you do it in four. So given that the theor let's just for in this example the theoretical fastest time is 3 to four years. Why is it that the private sector is taking so much more time? What's the what what's holding them back? >> Uh a little bit of fear probably. I mean I think you know there's a bit of a track record in our industry recently where costs have been significantly higher than than people have anticipated. I think the timelines around getting all those people together and all that sort of working capital lined up have taken a little bit longer. Um, and then I I do truly think we're tending to try to make things a little bit too big and take on too much. So, you know, the industry is very good at doing what it does, but right now there's a lot of things getting in our way. Um, and you know, I I do think we can all get better at permitting. We can all get better at discussions with community and First Nations. Um but the reality is we do have to make some decisions and we have to get on with it. Um I I believe strongly that the industry can respond but we do need a little bit of a shift change. I think this is this is maybe the first time in my career and I've been at this for about 35 years where governments are actually saying we need mining. They they've sort of said it quietly before. They like the jobs that it provides. But it's been rare in my lifetime where I've seen politicians standing up in just about every sector of the world saying critical minerals are important. We need mining. We need responsible mining and we need it now. I haven't seen that in the way that I've seen it right now today. >> Just in the why issue. So this is a statement from the White House back in uh the summertime right before they implemented tariffs on copper which they later took off. So says here, based on the facts considered in the investigation uh section 232 of the trade expansion act of 1962, the secretary found and advised me of his opinion that copper is being imported into the United States in such quantities and under such circumstances as to threaten to impair the national security of the United States. Why has it been the case that the US has shifted from a market consumer mentality when it comes to copper and other base metals to now a national security concern? >> Yeah, I I probably am not the per right person to answer that question to tell you the truth, but but I think it's just this broader sentiment as people are are stepping up and having conversations about where the raw materials are that we use as a society, where do they come from, who's benefiting from it, etc. I think the conversation in the United States is rightly sort of saying, "Wait a second. Do we control our destiny?" You know, it's it's it's probably high time that the onshoring happens that the administration is looking for and that reinvestment in the US happens in the way that they they're hoping. But I think this is a broader broader sort of issue. We we are sort of faced with a supply crunch and and the reality is this is a critical material to everything that we do in modern life whether it's military or your cell phone like this this is a metal that drives a lot of that and it's a lot more fun if you know where it's coming from and and you feel secure in that uh in that position. I personally am of the view that the world mining industry functions very well in terms of making metal available to where it needs to go. the recent sort of geopolitical sort of changes that we see in front of us right now or maybe throwing that a little bit of a curveball but you know as from where I come from I know that people I work with are good at getting the rock out of the ground in a cost-effective and reliable way and getting the product to market what happens after that you know quite honestly is is someone else's business I hope we do it well though >> some copper equities have lagged behind the metal itself though this year why do you think that uh investor capital hasn't flowed into the equities as much as perhaps the metal itself and I think the same could be said for gold and silver although we have seen the GDX and GDXJ caught up significantly >> it has caught up for sure I I think the major copper producers in the world are are struggling a little bit with growth right so it it's great to see the the response on the price side but many of the big operations in the world are underperforming so let's say guidance was 100,000 tons of copper and you hit 90 well the markets tend to be a bit disappointed with that and you don't get that connect between the price and the production because you know the mines are getting older, they're getting deeper. Just as you said, grades are coming down a little bit. So, it's really a bit of a challenge for for the big operators to live up to the promise that the price is presenting. I I do think that that changes over time. I think as you see some of the not just bigger players but mid-tiers and even the company that you know I'm working for at the moment and and leading um we can deliver against that promise but we do have to get at it. >> Do you think it's a matter of operations like you said where maybe the incentive price just needs to be higher maybe closer to $6 a pound before producers start to really ramp up output? Gosh, I I you know, there's a part of me that would love to see $6 copper, but there's also a part of me that says, let's just I mean, the incentive price right now at $5, 515, 540 today, that's a great incentive price. If it goes that much higher, I think you start to get a bit of aberant behavior in terms of how people think and they may actually do things that they shouldn't do. They may shortcut safety. they may shortcut some of the necessary uh safety uh programs around geotechnical issues, tailings management, etc. I would really not want to see that uh and sacrifice for price. So, at the end of the day, it's a bit of both, but um you know, $6 copper would be great, but but I think in some regards that might actually be too high, and it's hard for me to say that, but I I do think we have to be a bit careful about high high prices. And other mistakes may include deals that are unfavorable to either party. >> Shareholders. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. You know what do they call it? The red mist. Like it it everything's good when prices in your favor and everything doesn't look so good when it's not. We have to remember that this is a cyclical business. It's a cyclical commodity. I do think the trend is very positive. I think the fundamentals are better than I've seen for a long time. So I don't expect to see these big uh cycles that we may be seen in the last 10 to 15 years but we always have to recognize this is a cyclical business. I don't control the price so I have to manage my business accordingly. >> Uh this is a good point and it brings me to next question on cycles itself. So some people have called this the beginning of a commodity super cycle. uh what are your views on this and importantly how is this time different than let's say the 2000s when there was another back then a big bull run in the copper complex uh primarily from China really >> yeah look again I think that that's a really important reference point that early 2000 period to about 2010 was the last sort of big super cycle in the commodities business or at least the hard commodities like copper zinc lead um etc and and it was driven by this real massive industrialization push and and um investment in mainland China around a whole bunch of things really the movement of people in all honesty um I think what we're seeing now is not too different except it's a global recognition of this increased per capita utilization of copper you know in the early 2000s although we had some early versions of iPhones and whatnot we didn't have the data center pushes that we had then we didn't have the really intense last mile sort of copper uh delivery and increased sort of transmission requirements that um you know green energy is bringing on whether it's solar panels or um wind turbines etc. All of that is is augmenting and increasing the sort of demand crunch that we're currently in. So it's a little different than the early 2000s but I think the fundamental outcome is the same. We need to catch up with supply. Supply is lagging. price is going up and and it's going to be hard to catch up to that deficit. It really is. I think we're going to see this probably a little longer than that 2030 time frame that you referred to. My expectation is you're going to see robust prices well into the 20 mid 2030s. >> Uh your mind let's talk about so copper now. I think there's a broader thesis of diversification away from the primary copper production centers and the primary refining center which is China. China accounts for most of the refining in the world. Latin America accounts for most of the copper production in the world. So, how does Selker copper fit into this diversification thesis? >> Well, I I think there's there's two ways in my view. Um, the first is it's it's a modest uh size potential future producer, but it's going to produce a very high grade quality and quality concentrate. So, the world sort of average when you look at the big concentrate producers is sort of in that 28 to 30% copper grade. The product that comes out of this mine historically and that that we would forecast going forward is more like 38 to 40% copper. So that grade differential makes it a very boutique and bespoke product for the market and it can fit in to a lot of different end enduser sort of model. So smelters like higher grade copper for a variety of reasons. It's less intensive to process. It's less costly. You get more bang for your buck that. So that's an important part of that. And this type of product really fits into that industrial requirement going forward. The second thing is geographical sort of diversification. It's Pacific Rim facing. It's got a great historical clientele base um from past producers. The Japanese are very familiar with this concentrate. They like it a lot. It's been sold into Japan and Korea in the past and even parts of Europe just because it's such a high-grade uh uh concentrate. So that actually diversifies the overall trade flows. It's not going to solve the the the supply crunch. It's not that big a mine, but it will add to it. And our view is that we can get this back into production in the next few years by 2028. So we're not actually waiting for 2030 or 2032. So it's what I call incremental value added copper supply in the short term. It's a really interesting opportunity. >> Okay. Tell us about the deposit itself. Where is it base, the size, and you mentioned the gray. give us a bit more detail. >> Yeah, for sure. So, this is a a former producing mine. It's located in the central Yukon uh northern territory here in Canada. Um and it's about halfway between the capital city, White Horse, and Dawson on one of the major road arteries in in the province known as the Klondike Highway. It's a deposit that was first discovered in the mid70s. It was brought into production by a group called Sherwood Copper and then Capstone Copper in 2007 and it operated quite well up till about 2019 and then it sort of it came to the end of its then mine life and it transitioned into care and maintenance and then a new producer uh new operator acquired the asset in 2019 and they sort of rushed it back into production. They unfortunately weren't unable to really realize the true value of the operation. They were unable to fill the mill that the in the way that they intended and effectively they ran out of money and they went bankrupt. Long story short, it's a good asset with really substantial investments in capital and and equipment above ground. It's got road, power, plant, facilities, camp, etc. And what's happened in this bankruptcy is that we've been able to acquire it at a fairly low cost. That's often happens in bankruptcies. And our job now is to put forth a rational and thoughtful development program so we can get to that restart decision in 2028 or 2027 for production in 2028. The acid itself is a very simple sort of calcyite and borite bearing uh granatoid like minerals um or granitoid like deposit. Um good grades sort of in that 1 to 1 and 1.5% copper but there are portions of the deposit um that are actually in the sort of 6 to 8 and even sometimes 10% over minable widths and that's what's really drives the economics of the asset. Um the other thing to note is that it's got very good gold and silver credits. So about 65% of the value of ore is in copper and 35% is in gold and silver. And right now we're looking at a totally different sort of economic thesis. When it last operated in May of 2023, the price of gold, as you know, was about half of what it was today. Same thing with silver. And in all honesty, copper was about $2.5 lower. So it's a different economic thesis here about the restart. And and the beauty of what I see in front of us is we've got a good resource base. We've got about uh 36 million tons of indicated and inferred on a combined basis of around that 1 to 1.5% copper. On a copper equivalent basis, it's more like 1.7 to almost 2%. And our job really is to just further define those resources, convert the inferred into indicated, get it into measured over the next 18 months, and then and then make that restart decision. I'm very optimistic that we are going to make a 12 to 15 year mine life here out of the resources that we have and that we're going to advance that in a timely fashion. >> Can you just go back to the history? So you mentioned the previous management went operator went into bankruptcy and then it was revived. Just tell us about that. >> Why did it go into bankruptcy? What lessons can we learn from from that? Yeah. >> Well, I I think the main lesson that I've been telling people is um you need a plan to make a plan. So, uh, the previous operator unfortunately rushed back into production on this asset and unfortunately uh, some of the things that they assumed about their ability to produce from both an open pit and an underground didn't come to pass and they were only able to fill the mill about 50%. So, one of the things that we've learned from that experience is that we're not rushing back into production. We're going to take a very deliberate and thoughtful approach here. We've got three things that we're doing. We're uh refining and better defining the resources. So, we've got a big drill campaign underway. We're doing baseline engineering and design work such that we've got a really good understanding of what those new mine plans are on an integrated basis. And then concurrently with that, we're reinitiating permitting to make sure that we have holistic fully integrated permits for that restart decision. And you know, that's that should sound pretty rational to most of your investors. That's basically what we're doing. We're making a plan to make a restart plan. Someone told me the other day, so you're measuring twice to cut once. That's basically what we're doing. And and our job here is to just do it in as cost effective and timely a way as we can. And and and we will get there. I'm very confident of that. The other thing that's really interesting about this um acquisition out of bankruptcy, our First Nation partner, which is known as Selkerk First Nation, and they are the landholders under which this asset lies. Um they've been part of this operation for a long time. They acquired the asset out of bankruptcy and then made the decision to partner with the industry to bring it back into production in a rational way. So, it's a really interesting story from a social perspective and a permanent perspective because of their involvement and that's one of the really key uh tenants of of our opportunity here. >> I'm curious as to why First Nations um decided to get involved. There's this common um if you want to call it a stereotype or perhaps misconception that the First Nations do not support mining in their backyard at all and here we are seeing the exact opposite. >> Well, I I think just like you and I We appreciate people who do things well. I think the First Nation in this instance uh they they believe there is an environmentally responsible and sustainable way to operate this asset and they they've seen it where it's operated well and they've seen it where it maybe has been operated less well and they've just taken the brave decision that they want to be part of that decision-making process. They don't want to just uh you know get an NSR payment etc. They want this as a true opportunity for their nation going forward. I don't think they would be happy if it was irresponsible mining. As a matter of fact, I know that's the case. Um, but neither would you. If it was in your backyard, you would probably say, "I don't I don't need that." But, but what's really neat here is they believe it can be done well. I believe it can be done well and it can meet their highest requirements and standards. We just have to to work together to get there. So if copper sustains let's say this current range $5 to $6 a pound uh how does that change sir copper how does that change the scale and speed at which you develop your assets? >> I I don't know if it's going to change the speed. I think we're going to take this disciplined approach to it. Um we you know the work needs to get done. We can't substitute the work that needs to get done. We have to carry that out. But what I do think it does is I do think it changes the way that we finance that restart decision. I think we have a really good opportunity here to maximize the value of the concentrate offtake that we have that's a part of our uh ownership piece to you know minimize dilution in that restart decision. I also think it brings different players to the table than we might have seen in the past. You're already seeing some you know investments directly by governments in Canada in the US on things like road and infrastructure that will help us get there. I do think that that changes the landscape a little bit, probably takes the burden off us and then makes our investment decision just a little bit easier. Um, but I I don't think it makes it faster. You know, one of the things I've learned in my uh history in the industry is good work begets more good work, but you can't not do the work. You got to do the work, right? >> Well, your deposits are also part gold as well, if I'm not mistaken. So, tell us about how the gold price and current market impacts your operations, if any. I mean, gold is at an unprecedented level and I wonder if sentiment around gold mining has impacted sentiment around copper and in particular uh copper gold projects like yourself. >> Well, I I you know, it's really interesting. You started off the conversation that often copper and gold come together. The reality is geology tells us that most of the big uh deposits in the world or many of them are copper gold deposits and and you're even seeing the gold companies recognizing that trying to get exposure to some of the copper deposits like they weren't maybe a few years ago. So that's a real recognition around that. For us the the biggest driver of value in this restart is there was a former uh gold silver stream on this asset. So all of the gold and silver effectively that was in the ore was sold off to a streaming company and and it really didn't benefit the overall economics. It was part of it but not so much. That stream was extinguished in the bankruptcy. Very rare but it was a contractual arrangement between the streaming company and the operator that fell away during the um bankruptcy. And so we now have the benefit for the first time since 2007. We own all the copper, the gold, and the silver in a ton of ore. And that changes the way that we will operate. Now we can value fully the gold and silver in how we do our resource modeling, our operations plans, and our concentrate production. And we could really work hard to maximize gold recovery. Just the value of the gold and silver at average production rates going forward in average grades from the past. That's worth to us about $40 million US if we just apply the last 6 months of gold and silver prices. like it's a really significant change for this company going forward is that we now benefit from that. >> Do you think that the explosion in gold and silver has cannibalized the copper industry in the sense that capital has shifted to other metals and away from uh base metals and critical minerals? Is that has that happened at all? >> Um I I don't think so. I haven't I haven't really heard that sort of phraseology before, David. But but I I do think what it does is it actually enhances the view around a copper asset like this one. People will now say, "Hey, I can get copper and gold exposure from this equity and I can get the upside in both." So from my perspective, it it's actually a good thing. You know, if I go back early in my career, that was actually how many producers used to sell their um assets or sell their production profile. It was rare that it was I'm a sole copper producer. I'm a sole gold producer. I think the cycle now 30 years later is coming back to the benefits of diversity in your metal suite in a in a particular deposit and copper and gold. They very synergistic geologically. >> Uh finally tell us about a few misconceptions about the uh copper industry, mining industry that you've heard that maybe you could clarify for investors. Um well I I mean I think I think one of the biggest ones is we are very much I would call rabid environmentalists and I and I mean that in the most positive way. Most of the folks that I've worked with in the industry in my career they love the outdoors. They respect the environment very deeply and they're doing their best to manage those exposures. And and I think largely what we hear about in the industry are the worst actors and those that have, you know, maybe taken the shortcuts or not really paying the attention the way that they should, but it's like 1% of 1%. I would say the majority of our industry is really really focused on doing things well and being good neighbors in in how we and how we operate and develop these assets. >> Okay. I think I think maybe one of the other misconceptions is you know people often think that that not that it's easy but that you know when we get a mine into production everything is done at that point in time. As a matter of fact in my view that's just when the hard work really starts because now you have to think about how you work with your employees in communities in a really sustainable way. You have to be very very attentive to all the operating requirements. And that's something that I don't think the the investor really sees that much because they only see the problems when the problems surface. They don't see the good when the good's happening. So I I think those might be two misconceptions. I think our industry is quite wellrun. >> Well, let's end on milestones ahead that investors need to be paying attention to for Selker Copper. >> Well, uh, you know, values created on the drill bit. So, we're right now we're about halfway through a 50,000 m drill program. Just in the last 2 days, we released the first results from that drill program. Very positive sort of copper grades, gold grades, and silver grades across minable thicknesses in what's known as the Mento Northwest zone. Um, we've got 98 drill holes. We've only got four for the assays. That news flow is going to continue to come over the next 3 to 4 months. I fully expect to see sort of stage release of these results as we get the assays out into about early April. So that's that's that's coming. I think the other thing that's going on in behind that is we're developing a scoping study that will inform a preliminary economic assessment study that we're targeting sort of in the mid part of 2026 that will be used to inform our investment decision going forward. That will be a big milestone in my view and a real possibility for a reate on on our equity because that will give clarity as to the case going forward and it will give the investor a little bit more line of sight on the economics. >> Excellent. Thank you very much. Tell us where we can find more about you and your organization, Colin. >> Well, uh, you know, the worldwide web, I guess copper.com is is the place to go, but I would also sort of look to uh a few other places. you know, we we do have some news that we put out and and notices on LinkedIn. Uh we've got a Twitter X feed. I think we actually also have a couple other ones. Facebook is coming. Um you know, pay attention to the normal social media, but the website's a great place to start. Um I think the second thing is just look to some of the industry commentary. We we had just recently uh had our sort of coming out party as we started listing the stock on November 4th and it completed our proposed business transaction. But at the Yukon Geoscience Forum, which is an annual get together of the folks in the industry in the Yukon, we had a great opportunity to speak with the audience with the First Nation, myself, and our VP of exploration. I'd look for those types of videos and that type of information cuz it'll give you a bit better insight as to how we're thinking, what we're doing, and the excitement that we have about the opportunity going forward. >> All right, great. We'll put the link down below. So, make sure to follow Colin and Sucker Copper there. Thank you very much for the information. We'll speak again soon. Take care for now, >> David. Thank you very much. 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