Gaza Was Just The Beginning… | David Murrin on @LandCycleInvestor

Summary

• Rare Earths: Detailed discussion on China's dominance in rare earth processing/refining and a new Western push to onshore capacity, highlighting a 5-year timeline risk to defense supply chains.
• Commodity Upswing: Analyst forecasts a broad surge in commodities (base metals, gas, grains), arguing the cycle is turning up and will pressure inflation and bonds.
• Oil Rally: Expectation that WTI has bottomed with a new upside leg ahead, noting SPR depletion and potential US-Saudi dynamics that could backfire amid an inflationary cycle.
• Precious Metals: Gold viewed as an entropy barometer that has likely staged an interim blowoff; near-term giveback expected before longer-term upside resumes.
• Defense Technology: Significant emphasis on an accelerating global arms race (drones, missiles, shipbuilding) and the need for Western deterrence, benefiting aerospace and defense industries.
• AI: Framed as both a late-cycle equity bubble and a real productivity/weapon-systems disruptor, with job displacement and autonomous kill-chain risks.
• Quantum Computing: Emerging quantum sensing (radar, gravity) seen as game-changing for stealth detection and military tech; broader implications for computing and consciousness.
• Market Outlook: Warns of near-term equity and crypto fragility, rising inflation from commodities, and geopolitical escalations with limited prospects for durable peace deals.

Transcript

Um, hi David. We we're sat here chatting without me pressing the record button and I think we go on all night. I might as well press record and and uh and welcome viewers into the com into the conversation. Um, but it couldn't be better [clears throat] timing to have you back on the show. How have you been? Where are you, by the way? >> I'm in Turkey. >> In Turkey? >> On an island overlooking a beautiful bay where actually I we come and I work from here as if I would somewhere else, >> but it's beautiful. And I'm a huge fan of Turkey. I love the Turks. I'd say they're really really industrious, fascinating nation. >> Amazing. And and better weather I would have thought right now. better than England where just the heavens open regularly and autumn has arrived. At least here there's a pretense of holding it back and right now there's some blue sky I can see through the window which is a relief. [laughter] >> Yeah, it it does it does look nice there. The background and everything looks looks uh looks very nice. Um, but I've I've called you on the show at a very opportune time because I've been watching uh the peace deal, this unbelievable feat of peace in the Middle East um secured by Donald Trump. And I was talking to Andrew Panchcholi in um the interview which I released last week. and and uh I' I've been so it was so gripping and fascinating to watch and experience those few days because I'm quite close to um quite a lot of people in Israel. So I knew how the tensions of the two years have been really um on a level that hasn't that they haven't experienced before despite having wars and inter you know and and u bus bombings and whatever else these two years have really been unprecedented in terms of stress levels. Um but then sort of within a 72-hour period all of a sudden you know peace descends you know this hope all the hostages are going to come home and they live streamed this event um on you know from Israel and you and I was watching the live stream and the screen was split between um what was going on in hostage square in Tel Aviv. So hundreds of thousands of people you know that sort of turned out not only to hostage square but that kind of lined the streets where the hostages would be coming home. And then there was another split as to what was going on in Gaza with Hamas and then Gaza looking, you know, completely flattened. I mean, just unlivable. And then in the middle of the screen, they've got Air Force One landing and the red carpet rolled out and the military brigade to meet him with trumpets and the, you know, fanfare and off he comes and he's whisked off to the Knesset and just to watch all of that happen, you know, the hostages come home, Trump treated like the Messiah landing, you know, Moses and the parting of the sea almost in the middle of it, taken off to the Knesset where they It was it was tremendous. But of course outside of that were all the cyclical references which again I mentioned to Andrew last week which I think you know he picked up on many which was that the war started exactly 50 years from the Yam Kipore war in 1973 and then it started on Simat Torah um the Jewish festival which it celebrates the annual cycle of the Torah reading and then it finished on the eve of Simpat Torah. Well the hostages were returned the live ones anyway. I know they're still returning the dead ones. Um, and all of this, you know, all of these resonances are going on. Like, what a crazy coincidence that this war finished on the same holiday that it began. And then as I'm watching the television as well, you know, sort of as that week was progressing, the Nobel Peace Prize didn't go to Donald Trump. It went to the Venezuelan freedom fighter, you know, I can't remember her full name. Maria something or other I think was. and and I was look you doing a little bit of research on her and she was born on uncannily enough October 7th 1967 because 1967 was a six- day war in Israel so there were all these coincidences that were sort of firing out at me well you know that that's kind of like my my thing which is you know we see this happening everyone's celebrating they can't believe the war's over and I guess the first question would be to you is the war over. >> I'm afraid not. Um, I really my best analogy to start this conversation is imagine an operating theater with a surgeon desperately trying to save the life of a man who happens to be a celebrity and halfway through the long operation of removing the cancer. His wife bursts into the operating theater screaming, "Stop, stop, stop, sew him up. He's cured." And the surgeon tried to protest and she insisted. So he stopped the operation, sewed him up, and then the wife goes out to the assembled press and says, "I've cured him. He's cured. He's going to live forever." That's what's just happened. Trump has imposed himself and forced both sides, but especially Netanyahu, to the peace table for a period of time, and yet the conditions of peace are not met. And for the 20 hostages, it's an enormous relief. And for their families, it's enormous relief. But when we move away from that human experience of the individual tortured and suffered and beaten in the most horrendous way and their family suffering and we step back, 1,700 Palestinian prisoners were released for those 20 hostages. We can assume that they will fall into the arms of Hamas. And we can assume that Hamas has no intention of dropping its arms much as you know Trump tells you it's peace. It's his delusional grandiosity and wanting to receive all this adoration despite the fact it's a delusion rather than reality that is driving this for the IDF soldiers that will have to go back in and disarm Hamas when eventually phase 2 collapses which is inevitable. If you look at the way Hamus has behaved, the first thing they did was come out on the streets, executed denders, executed gangs that they thought were their enemies, they have no intention of relinquishing control. None at all. That's a big delusion. And it's just a quit and how long it takes before the penny drops. And then the idea of going to have to go in and do it all over again and retake the ground they like remove from facing Hamas, which has had a pause, able to reconstitute itself. How many lives will be lost in terms of IDF soldiers for the 20 hostages in return for the 700 fighters they now have to remove? >> And much as that sounds cold and clinical, that's the reality of what it's like on the hard ground in the calculus of war. >> And on top of that, we've got another dimension and that is Iran. Iran has no intention of relinquishing its desire to build a nuclear weapon that can destroy Israel. In fact, it's now been released that essentially, and I've been warning people, 60% of all the enrichment facilities are untouched. They still have their uranium, and that's without knowing their secret facilities. Their program is accelerating as fast as it can. They've developed missiles like the Fattier one, which penetrate the missile defenses effectively, so they don't have to build many bombs to get through. And really, what we're waiting for is the shoe to drop. And we can assume the Russians have probably helped with miniaturization technology >> with the with those hostages that were released. I mean know over 200 of them or around >> because they've supported arm shipments to the West Bank and there's evidence this is Iran and there's some evidence that essentially the Iranians may have even precipitated this recent break in the ceasefire and with Hamas. So this is so far from over and I think it's enormous travesty for an individual and his grandiosity to claim he's created peace when all he's done is made the situation worse and there will be more lives lost because now it'll be harder to push Hamas out because they've had a pause and they've retrenched. So I'm deeply skeptical of what I'm seeing. And you know what is I think concerning is how many people are prepared because of this sick of fancy around Trump to say how brilliant you are even though they know the reality is very different. >> Uh you you skipped a beat there. So I thought you you you sort of dropped out for a second and I jumped in. So I don't know how that's a little >> No, that's all right. I was I'm just explaining to people that are viewing this. I don't know how it's going to come out on the camera because I sort of jumped in. What I was I was um I mean that that's very sobering first of all. But what I was going to say is with the with the Palestinian prisoners that were released. I know around 200 of them had been convicted of multiple murders. You know there were suicide bombers and you know I don't think they released any that were directly or they might have done that that were >> they released 1700 >> 1 1700 in total. Yeah. But the I think there were around 200 that had been convicted of murdering m multiple murders um and you know suicide bombings or I don't know whether they they were um implicit in the October 7th attacks. I think Israel insisted that they didn't get released but you know the others that were released you know there there's some it's it's kind of illusionary. I know that that Israel um has policies there where they can hold um prisoners uncharged. they can hold um they can detain Palestinians and try >> and and the reports are they're not treated particularly well either. It's not as if you know Israel has the high ground. So the trouble is if they as reports suggest don't treat their prisoners well. People that would have been moderate will come out pretty like radicalized. >> So even though they weren't convicted originally, they become a threat for ongoing, you know, association with Hamas. So I I just think I I think you know I think we are in a very dangerous world where the leader of the free world is so deluded that he basically runs around telling people he's created debate for peace after 3,000 years and there's no chance will hold together. It's just a pause. And now he's taken that hubus and tried to force Ukraine into a piece which is unacceptable because basically what he took from it was he could bully people to stop shooting at each other. And wars don't end that way, I'm afraid. >> The um one of the uh hostage is that was released um he was released in the last round I think after around 400 days in captivity. um Ellie Shereibbe I think his name is but he said um that he's he's written a book called hostage and in that book he said that they believe that they're so brainwashed the members of kamas they believe that Israel want wants to kill them every day they believe that they nobody in Israel wants peace and they were quite dumbfounded of as they got to know him they said to him I wish everybody in Israel was like you. And he said, "Most people in Israel are like me. We want to live in peace. We don't want to live at war." And he came out and he said, "There's so much work to be done there on the education that until that's done, the the brainwashing that's on the ground. We're just not going to have peace there because we're always going to be at war there because of this foundational belief that >> Yeah. It goes back to 49, you know, where basically Israel was lost to the Palestinians and some stayed, some were evicted. So, their story about being persecuted and what's happened to them has been reinforced by organizations like the PLA and AMAs in such a way as it's entrenched in the young and you know they see they see the destruction only fuels their narrative. So I'm afraid that they are a cancer if you look at it metaphorically as far as Israel's survival is concerned and indeed in the Middle East because the reason why other Arab countries don't support them is they're known as just troublemakers when they basically 400,000 went to Jordan after 49. What did they do? They created a civil war and they had to evict them. But there's a reason why people are rounding in their neighbors fellow Arabs won't let them in. It's because they are known to be you know very very difficult. So it's hard to articulate this, but wars when you have radicalized a radicalized side that chooses to start a war, which is exactly what happened in this case. Amas as a state actor, not a terrorist organization, went to war with its neighbor. Until you destroy and remove that cancer totally, as we did to the Nazi party, as we did or to a pretty good extent with ISIS, it will persist. It will resurge. it will keep you know destroying the fabric of the society around it. So when Trump intervened at the stage when they were most vulnerable I think that was in a huge strategic error. He should have waited and as far as Britain and France and Canada you know duplicitiously asking for a two-state solution which is impossible just to appease their you know their woke v voting rights. they should be shamed because all they did was give Hamus another hand and that hand definitely played into Trump's hand. So it fed into it. So I would argue that peace doesn't come so easily. Doesn't come through delusion. It comes through the eradication of the cancer and then it comes through a powerful tool of reconciliation in the way that Douglas MacArthur created for Japan and Germany after the Second World War. None of which seems to be in terms of vision and understanding within the western leadership's realms of thought. >> So your forecast with the Middle East is that Hamas won't dearm, disarm, >> America, Israel is going to have to go in and finish the job effectively, which >> what >> I'm afraid so the Iranians will keep funding them because the Iranians are still seeking to, you know, look at Hezbollah. Hezbollah is moving away from its rocketry towards drone strikes and its rearming as well. So believe me, this is just this is just temporary and the the play that BB made in terms of dealing with Gaza, going on to Hezbollah, decapitating Hezbollah, then trying to denuclearize Iran has actually failed. And that's along with America. Iran is not denuclearized. It still has its hope of nuclear weapons and aspirations and it's still funding the proxies around and they're just researching again. So this war is ongoing. It is not resolved. >> And how long do you think we've got then until it all breaks out or breaks down on the ground? >> Well, you really can't tell. It's I think the issue is how quickly they push phase two. And the quicker you push phase two, the quicker realize phase two isn't going to come to fruition. And Trump will know that. So he'll probably go slow on phase two, which just gives Hamas more time to re-entrench and and and and you know re set up their defenses to make it harder to remove them. >> Sorry, go on. >> It's really a form of modern appeasement. You know, appeasement in the 30s was have Czechoslovakia and leave us alone. In a strange way, appeasement has evolved in our society to one of well, if the guns aren't firing, we're okay. But all it is is that's the pause before the guns start firing at double the rate. It's this inability to understand how to conclude and end conflict with decisive action. And decisive action that then sends signals to other predatory systems not to do it because they will suffer the same fate. The signal we're sending is well just keep trying and you know you'll erode western willpower, western intention and you'll get what you want because we have a stronger intention than the west and that is like the greatest of firestorms you could create towards increased conflict with the signals being sent. >> Um what is the likelihood that there will be peace between Ukraine and Russia with with Trump's intervention? >> It's the same issue. Putin doesn't want to put Putin doesn't want to stop. He's fully backed by China. It's very noticeable how if you look at the center of this axis of autocracy from which radiates all of these conflicts, the parade that took place only a month ago was really China saying, "Look, we've arrived." And I remember going through a uh Tesco's actually buying some food and I was speaking to the lady behind as I often do and she said, "God, did you see that parade? I'm terrified. It's like Nazi Germany." And I thought maybe finally the people understand what we're facing here. It's no coincidence that um before that he'd also bonded the SEO into like a second tier of the axis of autocracy below North Korea, below Iran and below Russia uh to a sort of a Eurasian hub in effect around China. And that a week after Putin had left the parade, he announced that Russia was at war with NATO. And then you had the escalation which was all about the border penetrations as he tries to test article five because if we don't trigger article five at the appropriate provocation it is a fundamental fracture of the NATO construct and that's what these probes have been about testing the article 5 and how it operates will it operate and to what extent he can keep pushing back and I'm afraid NATO was found really really wanting we you know we did not react definitively and we did not put him at risk So he's definitely in trouble because he's not going forwards and the oil part of his economy is gradually being hit very effectively with you know the relatively limited longrange rocketry that the Iranians have and cruise missiles Ukrainians have and he's definitely under pressure and if they'd given him tomahawks would have been under more pressure. So to offer Toms, take them away again, then to bash Ukraine and say, you know, surrender to Nitz, which is like surrendering the whole war by the way, because the next time it starts up, they just there's no protective defensive system to stop the Russians. So they get to the Dengra River. It's a completely irrational demand. And I think it goes back to something that we should all be concerned about, which is the topic I've talked about is Putin's reflex control over Trump. And reflex control is a a post is a USSR construct. You control someone on the other side as an agent of yours or willingly or unwillingly you manipulate them. And Trump has been manipulated by Putin. And my alarm bells went off when I heard that Melania his wife was essentially had direct contact to Putin over eight Ukrainian children. Ate over some 135,000 abducted children. Only eight. That wasn't about children. That was about the conduit of communication to Trump which then manifested in this particular push to Hungarian peace which is itself was an insult allowing Putin on any NATO territory and that itself is just you know another crack which Putin must love. He must have suggested it saying I can go to a NATO country just suddenly to be Victor Orban's country who's my friend and not go and be taken for war crimes and be indicted. Look at me. It's everywhere you look. It is like cracks in our system. And the delusion of Trump's foreign policy and value system is truly eroding everything around us. when what you need is a reanesses concept of bonding the western democracies in the Pacific and you know the Atlantic around America and saying we can match China's scale in the short term which is their window for operation and we can deter their aggression and their allies but he's done the opposite he's ripped the fabric of those connections apart so it's very concerning and I don't think under those conditions anyone should be thinking that ceasefires equate to peace And the ceasefires really I mean they're on the back of Trump's ego because he's always had himself as a peacemaker you know so this is to him it's almost like a plaster over a wound that is far deeper so plastering you know the cracks >> it is and you know you got to think about his fundamental psychology as a grandiose narcissist he wants to get the most acclamation and credit and so you know in this world where we're civilized inverted commas and you know and liberal making appeal peace is the way to get the greatest adoration. He's tapped into that and look what happened to him when he went to Israel. I mean, adoration for no reason whatsoever. He must love it because he draws on the energy of all the people that sopantically adore him. So, it's a very interesting sort of construct for the evolution of narcissistic dictatorship instead of penalizing, crushing, and beating your population, you create these paradigms where you adored. And so there's something very how can I say sick about this mechanism. And I've written a recent article which talks about how dictatorship especially those that rise to become dictators are usually psychologically damaged individuals. They're narcissistic, sociopathic, all the things that we look at who don't really want to meet them. And they're they're that personality. But what they then do is they substitute people underneath them who have very similar character types. So literally, as you're seeing in America, you could think you're going mad to think that America behaves the way it does. But what's happened is Trump's madness has been spread to all his subordinates. And those subordinates, give or take, with two exceptions I can think of, Marco Rubio and Bessant. Everyone else is definitely fits the mad category. Literally use their mad way of looking at the world to to in effect run the country. And the sane healthy individuals think that's crazy and it is crazy. And the new reality spreads. It was the same for the Nazis. It's the same any dictatorship and structure. And it's happening to America in front of our eyes. So the world has gone mad. It's gone mad because the people in charge of, you know, the dominant country in Western democracy are clinically insane. >> Um, it it's um in the middle of all of this, of course, what we've seen on our televisions today is the rare earths um deal that's been done uh with an Anthony Albanese and and Trump have met. Um I saw a video of it this morning. Everybody looking very happy. Trump looking very happy. Um, and this is to pull control away from China or attempt to pull control of this sector away from China, which at the moment is is dominant. And of course, rare earths are very important for where we're going um with technology really. Those people that control those minerals are the people that are going to control the the the uh economic rent of the of the technological progress and have the power. So it's in it's really a very important thing for for um the west to be on top of. What's your take on what's been going on with the rare earth situation? The Chinese the Chinese are a very unique proposition in that they have been planning their migration to hedgemony for at least 26 years since the third Taiwan Straits crisis and they came up with a number of really clever strategys. One is to encourage the west to invest in their industrial base because their labor costs were low which would keep inflation low in the first decade of this um century. They uh built the foundations of their rare earth economy and they constantly enforced to their western counterparties that they were prepared to take the dirty consequences of processing rare earths. And of course the green liberals said, "Well, you do that. That's great because we don't want that in our hands." So they created this paradigm where they basically became the refining center of the rare earth community. And rare earth themselves are not rare. And so it's a really stupid name because they're not rare. They're all over the place. What is rare is how you process them. And China's processing ability is what gives it the advantage, especially when it comes to heavy like rare earths. And what they understood was if you control the rare earth spectrum, you basically controls the the ability to weaponize and face an effective arms threat or or keep up with the Chinese. So I would argue we have seen two interventions. One, my thesis that the pandemic was not accidental and was designed to accelerate the debt burden of the west by locking the economies down by emulation. The Chinese saying look if you're disciplined like us, you can fight it. Look what happens. And what do we do? and we burn huge amounts of debt in the process which has inhibited our ability to match the arms race subsequently and now they're pulling their next card out the out the out the trick box which is oh we'll literally constrain all defense re and even if we do these deals we still have to build a refining we're 5 years away what happens to our defense industry as we need to accelerate to match the Chinese to a wartime production rate and the re are not ours so it is a major major checkmate in many ways I'm sure there will be found ways around it. We will find substitution and we will get through this. But it's a pretty mean pill to swallow and it's designed really to prevent us from matching the acceleration in in defense expenditure and production by the Chinese. >> So we have uh the prospect of ongoing war in the Middle East once that all comes to a head and it's realized that Hamas are not going to give up power and they're not going to disarm. We have the prospect that peace deal won't be done between Ukraine and Russia. That that won't happen. >> I think that's definitely just another waste of time for Putin. All he's doing is he's buying time because the the Tomahawk threat was a threat because he didn't need many Tomahawks to really hit his oil industry at long range. And once that happens, you know, he's down to 20 30 40% inhibition of his revenues. His wartime program is becoming harder and harder. So, it's a really good thesis. Even if there only a few of them used, they'll hit their targets. So, I think this for Putin is all about delaying the onset of Tom Hawks hoping that some other process is going to happen with his bombardment of Ukraine because he's turned the lights out in there. So none of which I'm afraid is going to be definitive on either side because Ukraine will gain support from Europe and Russia will gain increasing support from China which is already huge by the way >> and and whenever I talk to people about you know the concept of this being the beginning of World War II and um who was it Fred Harrison who I was talking about I've mentioned Fred Harrison to you before. I did an interview with Fred Harrison and he said something I think it was Fred Harrison who said this. It's very easy to forecast World War II. Um it's much harder to forecast the timing because you know World War II comes after World War II at some point in history. There's going to be another world war. um you know so we can talk about the timing in a minute but but no one really believes it's a world war until China gets involved because whilst particularly for us in Australia you know whilst we're in Australia and we're seeing what's going on in the Middle East we're seeing what's going on in Europe we're uh a relative distance away from it nobody here is is losing a night's sleep worrying about what might come around the corner so it would be back to this idea then of China making a move on Taiwan and the motivation to do that and the timing for that and you've spoken about this continually. Well, since we've been talking and that would be well gosh maybe 2023 2022 we started uh doing interviews and and um it would have been around the end of COVID I think we started doing interviews and at that point you were forecasting World War II and you wrote that book about China winning it in 2025 which is where we are right now. Um, and that was actually what sparked my interest in in interviewing him because I thought, gosh, that aligns with what we've been saying about the the land cycle. And then if we bring Andrew Panchcholi into it, I know you're very good friends with Andrew Panchcholi, but of course we've got this u we're 90 years from World War II. We're on the 80 to 84 year um cycle. you know that we we we're seeing it all on the ground of the echoes of that time with the rise in anti-semitism and uh the you know you talk about it this entropy that builds in the system. So I I guess I want to know where where are we at with that? I mean is do do you still see that happening in the near term with China? When's China gonna first look first of all the overriding phenomena that we are facing is this 108 112 year hegemonic war cycle which is like two contract waves and the last cycle that we clearly are aware of is 1940 when the war started and the peak was 1920 so six years before that peak our coming peak is about 2030 and so Ukraine started eight years beforehand And by the way, once these things start, they just start. You can't tell when they're going to stop because it only stops when the hedgemonic structure has renewed or changed and the old systems are wiped aside. And to just exemplify that, you know, 1792 was the start of the Napoleonic Wars in effect. And they didn't finish until 1815. And there's a few pauses in between, but that's eight plus it's 23 years to reconcile from start. But that Britain was now the dominant hedgeman. If you go to the first world war, it was Germany's challenge starts in 14 doesn't really end until 45 even though there's a peace between the two sort of the new structure emerges. So my point about this is we are in that process of the old structure dissolving and a new global hedgemonic structure replacing it. We think that China is the challenger but we wouldn't have thought that America would become dominant when Britain and Germany were fighting and they came out of it stronger. So my point is you don't quite know who will come out stronger. Usually both of the sides of the fighting end up pummeling themselves into the ground and then a third system rises up underneath or as in France and Britain in the Napoleonic wars it was just Britain overwhelmed with France. Not quite sure where that solution comes but one thing we should be sure about the guns fired. It fired with Ukraine. It was reinforced by the Iran Israel conflict which was taking place and the clear hostility that China has towards Taiwan. but increasingly all the way down to Australia. And I think there is a case where actually I could see a case where the Chinese don't even bother with Taiwan. They just go straight to go because what does go mean for them? Go means control of the whole third island chain. All of Australia, all of New Zealand, all of the islands to the west of the Philippines, all the way out to Guam in effect. And then there is a gap that America can't get back into. It means a suppression of Japan and South Korea and it means that the Philippines basically fall under their sway. It's exactly the same equation that the Japanese had and they almost succeeded barring failing at the Coral Battle of the Coral Sea. So my point is actually Taiwan is becoming more and more a sideshow. It's not their end goal. Their end goal is actually the big goal and their capabilities are rapidly increasing towards delivering it. And there's a whole study which I've done which I release next week which is how actually the Japanese forces took control of that large area and created their blitz. And one of the things that's interesting is the force concentrations for the US forces was in three locations and it's not that much different now. It's remarkably similar. And then you've got Indonesia which sits on the borderline between China influence. Well that's be a neutral zone. It's really about the Philippines. It's about Papa New Guinea. It's about Australia. But this thing is happening right in front of our eyes. And as to when the Chinese act, I don't know whether you saw, but there were nine generals removed. Two of them right at the top of the of the of the committee for war and seven lesser generals. That's part of a pattern where she has been changing the structure of leadership in the army. And my assumption is not about corruption. This is essentially about those that would follow him to war and those wouldn't. And the delays we've had over the past nine months have been some internal dynamic between the military and she and she looking for a military just like Trump is trying to create that would do his absolute bidding and that's probably delayed this otherwise it might have happened sooner but delay is the word because China has structured itself to go to war. It's in a war mode. It's not in a peaceful mode. It's building the most incredible array of weapon systems to negate its western opposition and it's doing it at a frightening pace. So yes, she could argue why interrupt Trump when he's making a mistake and making America weaker. Big tick. He could argue that our lead seems to be accelerating. Big tick. But he would also argue that America is making some mitigating moves. Alliances are waking up. You know, I think this thing called Orcus actually will become what I call the Pacific Treaty Organization and become bigger and include South Korea, Japan, the Philippines in a formalized construct as we have in NATO. And that will be the next step that we see if we have time, the formation of an alliance structure of all of the Pacific powers that resist China. Um, and at that stage, just like it was in World War I and the runup, once these alliances build themselves up, it's just a matter of time before the dominoes fall. So, this is inevitable in my opinion, unless we have some giant intervention on a on a non on a greater planetary scale because these are the way that human beings collectively act in these large systems. Um, when I've interviewed you before, you had this four-year plan that China had where you said they have to act within this period of time. Do you remember? >> I still do, and I think they're in the end of it. >> Yeah. >> They're running out of time. the failure of their economy and its morabund you know economic dynamics which puts the CCP at risk because they stable growth is part of one of their mandates is part of the price that's been paid to prepare China for war and just like Germany it would go bust in 1940 China faces some severe economic challenges if it doesn't go to war and my best analogy is it's like an athlete but the athletes tripped and so the athlete keeps running through the to basically stand and keep standing as one leg goes forward even though they're out of balance. And that's how expansive hammans act in the expansive phase. They don't methodically go ch. They literally are unbalanced and have to run forward to keep upright. And that's the image that I have of where China is right now. >> The the I think the frightening thing is is China's so you know like you said with that um you know parade that they did not so long ago. It is frightening the sheer size and the sheer manpower that they have there compared to anywhere else. And we see it demonstrated when they build a piece of infrastructure. And you know, within a a a days to a week, you know, they they've built a a major bridge crossing or, you know, I mean, it's it's absolutely remarkable what they're capable of. Whenever I see videos like that, there's usually comments underneath it where people are saying like, "How can we ever beat China if because of what their >> their capabilities are." >> You're absolutely right. Their scale, their organization, their industry, there is no nothing to com even get close to in the Western world. But that's bad enough. But there are recent reports from US heads of car manufacturers that have basically gone out and seeing Chinese manufacturing plants that are dark factories. They're fully automated and they work 24 hours a day and the lights are out on a scale that's unimaginable with technology and sophistication that America and the West doesn't match. Now, that is even worse because they're no longer reliant on their manpower. They're becoming a fully automated fifth generational manufacturing nation and that will wipe our clocks. And then what do you do with the people? Well, you put them into your armed forces because you know you got plenty of people you don't need as a workforce. So now you have 20, 30, 40 million armed forces. When people say to me, you know, well, they don't want to take over the world. They're perfectly poised to. They control their own population with their social social algorithms. 1.2 billion people are controlled and managed through these algorithms. They suppress the OES who were hostile using these algorithms, torture, sterilization, things that everyone should have jumped up about. I mean, forget for way before Gaza, if you wanted to be a liberal with a cause, surely that was the cause to stand for. But there was silence. They went into Hong Kong, six generations of dynamic capitalistic um democracy wiped out in three months with these algorithms. So they have huge manpower. They have forces will be raised in the conflict that will be of tens of millions. They have manufacturing capabilities. They have ship building capabilities that leave us standing. Really, when you look at this, it's not good unless we start to wake up and start pulling our innovation mindset and applying it very quickly. So, time has run out for us in my opinion. >> The other thing they have is a very compliant population compared to the populations that the West have. And we've seen that most recently with um the protests that happened over the Middle East. If there's anything ever anything to inspire protest, it's something going something occurring with the only Jewish state that we've got on the planet um which is Israel to bring people out and and the demonstrations have been to such a scale and the violence that has come from those generation those um those protests has been on such a scale that uh as a backlash we we've then seen the patriots come out. We I I'm talking about it from what I see in Australia. I've seen similar things happen in England, but in Australia, this kind of backlashes between the pro Palestine, the you know, whatever else that they're protesting about, you know, whether we should move Australia Day or whatever else. We we've had the, you know, Australian nationalists that then come out patriotic flying the Australian flag. And one of the things that always struck me about your empire model when I first looked into it was your stages of how the empire breaks down. And one of those was when the country kind of turns in on itself. It there's more infighting. The split between the black and the white opinion of the country. And the infighting when you stop defending yourself to the outside forces and you start fighting within yourself, you've got this kind of civil war going on. And and that's what's been happening in the US. we saw with the you know what happened with the protests in LA was it um earlier on um this year um in England in London I don't know what's going on in London but um you know from people that go and visit there and and have sent me uh clips and and stuff of the protests that are happening there I mean it's absolutely terrifying to me to watch that as somebody that was born in England and now sees it so differently from how I remember I mean I lived in London for for quite a long period of like what what I mean that to me is the break that that is the breakdown to me of the of the west because that's easy pickings isn't it for for anybody else to come in I mean what army do we have we just have infighting within the country whereas China has this vast compliant population that will do it >> well you put your finger on I think three phases of that builds that picture the first is this hegemonic cycle which creates entropic dynamics between nations, hegemonic challenges and wars is like a pulse of entropy and it works between nations and within nations. So it's like an amplifier to this these this energy. Then if you go and add in the fact that the west is in late stage decline, there's less to go around. So it fractures and then in those fractures it argues with itself and it sees political divides and they're fed by this pulse of entropy. you start to understand the magnitude of why we're seeing these movements. But then there's a third and that is in the case for example of Iran. Iran has propagated anti-Israeli anti-Jewish propaganda very effectively all the way through the Western system which then has touched on just like in like a forest fire in effect. It's a spark in a tinder box that's already there with the prior conditions. And these movements that we see that are basically anti-Jewish and anti-Israeli, they're not spontaneous movements out of Britain, they're actually really fanned by this Iranian, Hamas, Palestinian linkage. And what's so scary is how those people that are being ignited are are so unconscious of what has ignited them in their righteousness. And they're being used as an external tool in effect to then weaken the relationship between Europe and Israel. And Israel therefore is an important part of the construct of the west. You have a whole load of skills you have which are unique to you. And in that fracture they look to take advantage. So for those people that you know feel righteously indignant, I would just say please sit back and try and examine without emotion what it is that's driving you to these conclusions and actions. And some of them are actually by hostile states with agendas which are not aligned with the ones you think. um with with that how do you see things then playing out over say the next 12 months? What what >> look I think this this entropic pulse is increasing in intensity. So the we're not going to suddenly have a surprising lucky break and peace breaks out because it's not how these pulses work. Just the tempo of that dynamic gets worse and worse and things get worse and hope isn't there. There is no place for hope. The only place there is is for reality. And reality is that you need to get ahead of the aggressor cycle rather than be subject to it. And you create fire breaks by by accelerating defense and deterrence policies and political intentions. For example, we should have exacted a price on Putin in my opinion. I would have, if I was in charge of Europe and I had the authority, I would have said, Putin, we're going to have an air exclusion zone all the way to the Denro River. That means anything that flies into it gets shot down. No longer can you punish Iran, Ukraine with your air strikes that are getting stronger. Not going to happen. By the way, every time you're aggressive along the NATO boundaries, we're going to move that exclusion zone another 100 miles east until it goes over the original borders before 19 2022, at which stage you won't be able to conduct your ground war. So, the choice is yours. At that stage, he's thinking, well, what can I do? Can't deal with NATO air power, cold bluff, not going to use nuclear weapons because the Chinese won't let me. Believe me, that's not an option. And now I'm really I paid a price for my aggression. Until you make an aggressive payer price, it is not good enough just to bat them off because they keep coming back. It's a free option because it doesn't hurt when they get batted back. So, you need to fundamentally change that paradigm. And we need to do it in a number of places. We failed to do it in Ukraine and we failed to do it over Gaza because in Gaza it should have been really simple. Remove Aamas from Gaza. We encourage you to do it as quickly and effectively as possible. Yes, we wanted to be as humanitarian as possible, but we do understand that obviously there's a huge complexity with what Hamas does with people on the ground. Make it transparent, support the Israelis, and you know, make sure that everyone understands the problem of striking a Hamas leader surrounded by children as screens, how Hamas wants his population to die. Just bring it into the open and support Israel to remove this hostile state, not terrorist actor. That would have been the right thing to do. And as far as Iran's concerned, much bigger problem because they built facilities, I think deeper than the GBU52s can reach. They've been incredibly covert in, you know, just as October the 7th caught Moss by surprise. I think they RGC have surprises in their nuclear program that Moss maybe still hasn't found out about. And when they have, they're too deep to access. So until the regime is over, no one is safe in the Middle East. No one. And that includes the Saudis, the Kuwaitis. So that mission needs to be accomplished. And if you had strong leadership that was bold, you could have created those firerekes by stopping these peripheral wars and raising the threshold for China to think it could get away with it. But instead of that, we've done the worst thing. So I can't and there's not a single bit of inspirational political positioning that makes me think this is going to change. So we are locked in this going to war slowly. And in Europe it's we'll you know it could be in five years time they've got five years to do something about it. No we don't because the moment the Chinese go on their campaign in the Pacific they will come to support the Russians on the eastern front and it will be a completely different engagement. So we don't have five years. We don't have any time. So the next year I think we'll see escalation. There will not be surprise surprise pieces that are lasting. They're like four seary ceasefires which just make it worse. And I think we've also got a market problem. I think gold is the best measure of entropy. So, you know, when gold rises, it's because it reflects increased entropy in the world around us. And we've just had probably a blowoff of an interim level. And that blowoff means that essentially from this point, we are very close to a market collapse in terms of equities and a liquidity collapse. Bitcoin is done and so is the crypto complex. It's not a safe haven. It's a liquidity bubble. And therefore, as that implodes, equities are vulnerable. So, I think we've got market fragility coming our way rather quickly in in this autumn period. And that fragility will have all sorts of consequences if it accelerates, which could be one of the moments that the Chinese used to move because financial weaknesses, a big weakness for the states, and a big distraction. So, whatever it is, it's not good at the rate we're going. >> You think that could happen as early as this autumn? you wouldn't push it out until next year. >> I think it's already got I think it's in place. I think gold and silver have made their made their bubbles and I've been long of the damn stuff for years now and you know I'm out of it and uh I have other investment areas which I think are the next phase of this surge and it doesn't mean gold has finished and won't reach higher levels. It means it's just accelerated to an intrim high where now it will give back an awful lot and the jolly come ladies will lose money. >> Um for a while now both you and me have been forecasting increasing commodity prices. What what's your view around the commodity indexes? >> Well um copper is doing well. Um the zinc and lead complex is starting to move. Nickel will move later. So let's say base metals tick, gas tick. It's very interesting that we've um seen a suppression of WTI over Brent and over some of the other refined um oils. And my view is it's been a deep wave two before we embark on wave three. And I think the low was yesterday. So I think oil prices are going to go upwards from here. And you can also see the grains moving positively in from a basing pattern. So I think we're about to have a big commodity surge and that affects bond prices, affects inflation and that doesn't necessarily mean that gold and silver carry on higher. I think that they were ahead of the curve and they act as leading indicators to oncoming entropy, not coincident indicators. Commodities are more like to be coincident indicators. >> And so then I mean that that's also been my forecast. These were the things where we we really had a lot of synergy in the um rising commodity prices but also the fact that inflation couldn't fall significantly at this point in the cycle. Um and we have seen you know rate cuts. The Fed has um we've had um a couple in Australia. There's a um the market is pricing in a couple more. What is your opinion on when that might reverse? Do you see that reversing that central banks might wake up and think >> look you know the Fed has been lost to Trump and Trump demands lower rates >> irrespective of the real world paradigm. So I can see them going the wrong direction compared to the world as inflation increases. I mean part of the suppression of WTI I think has been some alliance between America and Saudi Arabia to keep the price low. the same alliance they used in the cold war to break the Soviet Union and they're doing the same thing but they're doing in a different environment. They were rolling the barrel downhill from 75 onwards because the commodity cycle had peaked then and therefore was on a deflationary cycle. This is an inflationary cycle. So I can see this really backfiring with the prices going through the roof and the strategical reserve of America still depleted and the price going up. So a lot a lot unfolding in that respect. So I think commodities should be a real focus for people. Inflation is obviously going to surge and that means bonds and bond crisis are all part of this paradigm. >> Um let's just throw in the mix uh briefly AI. It's being hailed as this great disruptor. Um I'm sure you'll have some quite strong views on it. To most people, David, AI is chat GPT because that's their only experience of AI. and and I could as somebody that that's used chat GPT a bit it's not overly impressive once you uh you you know chat chat GPT or whatever other platform you know you sort of use on it and and for sure it's it's um assisted in productivity but the the great disruptor that everybody's talking about what what are your views on how that might impact things cycllically as we go forward say over the next five to 10 years >> well okay let's look at the first aspect which is it's the last bubble in the bubble before it blows of the US stock market in my opinion and many of those companies are vastly overvalued which is exactly what you would get in terms of the real translation of what that means for you and I I mean chat GBT when you learn to use it is a huge productivity enhancer. So our ability to produce to a higher standard to access information and sort information, it still requires your your brain to process how you want the information to be, but it's a huge it's like having a like a super toolkit in terms of creating things. That's a big kick. And anyone who isn't worked out what that means, it means that many complex jobs that were iterative are disappearing in front of our eyes. And that is going to lead in my opinion to a fundamental change in the very nature of humanity's makeup from this lateral linear split of 70 being linear and 30% being lateral. In effect, AI is going to replace linearity in the human gene pool. So that's a little concerning if your genes are predominantly linear because you're going to be replaced by robotics and AI thinking programs. And what do you do for a living? How do you survive? How do you get to procreate? Big social issue there. For lateral thinkers, it's a multiplicity of capability because suddenly your fingertips are multiplies to your creativity to create things on a scale you couldn't have done before. So, we've got a social element. The biggest most impactful element is the arms race because AIS are being used in weapon systems and much as we're reassured right now, humans will be in kill chain loops. the teams that take the humans out actually will move faster than ones with the humans in. And this iteration process will lead to a terminator scenario. And in terms of where computing is, it's reaching those horizons of consciousness. And I think as quantum if if all analog analog computers in the next few years have not created consciousness and that that one moment where sentient computer system wakes up by the time quantum computers are enlarged which the evidence is our brain is a quantum computer. So we're creating something that emulates our own thought process much like data in Star Trek with it ponetronic brain. Well, we will face inside this conflict or before the conflict becomes kinetic, the arrival of sentient machines that control our weapons with all the implications that come with it. To me, that is now inevitable and we should be terrified at that prospect because whatever firewalls we think we create, they're not going to work. So I think that is a huge issue is that maybe the petri dish as we move towards kinetic world war II is actually we intervene with we don't fight each other we end up fighting our creations because our creations become sentiment sentient and the way that humans evolve as I've discussed in my work is we use it through creative destruction we destroy and in that destruction called war we maximize our adaption and our lateral thought processes and therefore anti-entropic capabilities and then surge forwards afterwards. Now to a computer that's a very illogical way of evolving that would just systematically evolve without internal destruction. So I think whatever sentient computer comes out it's going to look at us as a threat. That's pretty inevitable because we're a threat to each other. So why wouldn't we be threat threat to a sentient AI creature that we create? So I think there's a very big concern. I think it it was Elon Musk has has talked along similar lines to that when he's chatted about, you know, what the impact of AI would be um in the years to come. But you know, I always like to go with you where others don't tread, which is one of the comments that you made earlier, which was about [clears throat] how we're on this path to destruction unless a force comes in to stop it, which always which kind of takes me back to the chat that we had. Was it the beginning of this year? It was, wasn't it? It was in January. >> So fast. I can't believe we're at the end of the year. And yet January, well, that chat does feel like it was quite a while ago because um that was when there was just all this stuff in the news about the drones and you know the the uh UFOs and people didn't know what they were and there was just like a whole host of it was all um you know dug up. It was all mainstream. All of a sudden aliens were mainstream for a while and that's been forgotten now with the events that has happened over the year. But, you know, you're one of those refreshing people that I can talk to about this that will say that that knows that's done the research into it and realizes that that hasn't gone away. That's still there. And >> so, it is still there. I mean I think when I wrote breaking the code of history I framed the decade as we moved into the peak of this hegemonic cycle as in 2020 to 2030 our decade of catastrophe or consciousness because I saw all of these things weaving together into World War II that would destroy us and either we became conscious in the process and understood that we evolved through conflict and couldn't do it anymore or we destroyed ourselves. And I hoped as an optimistic person as we reached the breach we would have started to think about you know that process. Sadly in the west we are so deluded and we've so lost our way that we haven't even understood the threat yet alone the catalyst to change that perspective or to create deterrence where it's a standoff where you could meet the opposition and say that this doesn't work for us. Let's find a new way. None of those conditions are being met. So I've come to the conclusion that we are on course for a very destructive period in this we have some kind of external intervention and the congressional hearings which actually have increased in intensity since we spoke have released more information although they failed to pass a key bill and there's a lot of blockage inside um Congress for this disclosure. It is very clear in my opinion that we do not occupy this planet alone. There is a non-alien intelligence that coexists with us on an incredible scale. And the question is why is it here? Is it here to change our consciousness? Is it here to move us over this hump of development? What is what is its agenda? But there is a factor that goes into this somewhat desperate situation I think we're in as humanity moving towards the precipice that we don't live on this planet without wi without this non-human identity living with us with a different with an agenda we need to uncover. And in fact, I've published a special report that's due out in the next few weeks for people that are members of my site which really summarizes really the depth of information which is unbelievable of these phenomena are just not imaginations. They they are very real. And so that intersects with geopolitics because they intervene in military activities and military sites are seen around nuclear weapons carriers. They're seen around all sorts of, you know, facilities and to what extent does that impact the geopolitics of this conflict that's rising. So there's some big questions around this and I think actually if I could knock everyone's heads together right now I'd say why don't we stop fighting because we need to turn and understand what this phenomena is that coexists with us and why we're here and these mechanisms where we fight ourselves just keep yes we evolve but we don't really evolve our mindset sufficiently to ask the question that we're not alone and therefore we're not alone what's happening to us I think that's the biggest question of our time to be honest >> one of the things that was noticed about those um UFOs was that they hovered over the nuclear sites and the we spoke about this at the time. One of the theorists that was put forward was that they were here actually were here to intervene was to stop a nuclear war was to stop the planet being >> well there's there's a case in a US US case in the cold war where weapon systems were turned off. There was a case in Russia where they were turned on and thought they were going to launch them. So there's one on each side of that agenda and I s one thing I do think is I think the paradigm in our society of light and dark of you know and by the way in the Star Wars paradigm you could never get rid of darkness because then you have to get rid of light they're like twins that move with each other and they alternate and I I really see that perspective and I've come about it since I sort of think about entropy and how you know destructive societies if they're overcome create super constructive soc societies. So, is that really bad in an evolutionary process? Um, so this link between light and dark, I think, is quite strong. Uh, well, it's irrevocable. But if that's the case, then if we have light and dark on our civilization, then outside in the other existences and the other civilizations around us, they're probably light and dark civilizations. And one of the assumptions you have to make is it is not just one civilization interacting with us. It may be more than one. in which case they have different agendas and it's much more complicated than we'd like to think. But whatever it is, we need to really start asking those questions and following up. And for all of you that think this is a strange conversation, just go back and look at the congressional hearings, go to my website, become a Marin Nations Gold follower, look at 20 UAP like studies which I've done with the evidence and it is clearly overwhelming. such so that members of Congress want disclosure because it's a real phenomena and that includes Marco Rubio who's you know the secretary of state for the US United States. These things don't just come about through moments of badness. They come about because the evidence is overwhelming and everyone should be interested in it. >> Who who would know? Do you think there's people that do understand that do know that do have those answers that we're talking about here? >> Yes, there have to be. You have to think of somewhere in the US Air Force there is a body of people who understand exactly what this is and have probably been the most active in suppressing it it its release. Um the US Navy is aware of objects underwater. The Australian Navy, there's a very famous, the New Zealand Navy, there's a very famous case of a Leanderclass frigot that was basically spotted this massive 500 foot object 25 miles away when it was coming into North Island and literally in about 3 seconds it closed the distance, came underneath the frigot and shut all the power off and the thing had to be towed back into harbor and so it's it's all around us. >> Why do you think it would have shut the power off? I think that's to do a byproduct of it's basically whatever it was able to move at 500 knots underwater somehow its power field shut the frigot off less less an attack and more more maybe a warning possibly may not may have not been a byproduct but whatever it is under our oceans is probably the secret to what this is about >> and in our own technological evolution I mean I know that there's a a lot I was reading a report today on quantum entanglement don't ask me to explain it because I don't think that I could >> do that if you I can do that if you want. >> Well, that you can do that. That would be great. But I what I'm wondering is like how you know what are we discovering now that we can do that we never thought that we could discover we could do before that might bring us closer to understanding this type of technology. >> So I remember when I did my physics degree studying quantum mechanics was mindblowing. The equations were huge and the concepts were difficult and Schroeder's cat and the duality of being in a box and alive and dead and the idea that consciousness altered outcomes when you observed like interactions and it is amazing to see quantum engineering which is real engineering create quantum computers, quantum communications. And one of the things we just talked about is the idea of entanglement. the idea that you can entangle two photons. You can keep one in a box and shoot the other off into the universe and what happens to the other as it goes through the universe is registered in the photon that you hold in the box. So, one of the things the Chinese have done recently is they've created like they're creating photonic radars essentially that mean that this photon goes into space and when it's deflected from a stealthy airship like a you know like an F-35 or a B2 or B-21 normally it doesn't return to the sending radar and you can't detect it but just by the act of deflection you know it's there. So these quantum radars are the answer to stealth. They negate stealth and they are being put into operation and reduction by the Chinese and one whole realm of technological advance as a result of that for the American air force is about to disappear when these systems come online. So quantum and quantum sensing, quantum gravity, quantum gravity is in quantum is electro manetics is going to allow you to look through the oceans and see a submarine 600 m below the surface because you can see the gravitational shape that it causes under the oceans. So these are a whole breed of sensors which are going to be very active in this World War II scenario. And the technologies we go into the war and we come out with are totally different. And this quantum engineering part is fascinating. But on an esoteric level, there's another part of it which is quantum biological dynamics. And there are things called microtubules. And they now find them in the brain. So our best assumption is our brain is actually a quantum computer. And it uses that. So we we interact with the quantum world with our brain being a quantum computer which starts to explain the whole middle you know the the the far eastern philosophies of mind changing the universe around you. If we are right about it that's how because a quantum computer could interact with a quantum universe. So that means the human potential is unlimited to physically change our reality. Now there have been experiments with the CIA and remote sensing and other remote kinetics which prove this is so but we're entering into this realm where the power of our consciousness is being unveiled within western science. And I think that also has a dimension to the UAPs because anyone who's really studied them links UAPs to some form of consciousness that the craft of consciousness that they interact in conscious ways. So this whole process of quantum brain consciousness in UAPs and this bigger theory I talked about consciousness or catastrophe suggests to me that our evolution our kickstart if it comes is wrapped up in this conundrum. >> Yeah, there's some fascinating things in that. Yeah, cuz I remember that there was one video of um one of one of the UAPs uh that this woman videoed and as she was talking to it, it was changing light and changing color and she was quite far distance from it. Um but that that was the quantum entanglement thing. That was what I was I was reading about today. It was somebody that that said, you know, once you're entangled, you can travel from here to Australia. He was in England, you know, to Australia, the other side of the world. And that you're still entangled. you you still >> and what what it what it does is it provides a a physical explanation for the way we intuit it between each other. We can feel people halfway across the globe and their experiences. So before it was a whole lot of scientific carbankum that telepathy worked or you know mutual feelings. Well now with entanglement we know it works. So once you're entangled or you have some entangled connection with another human being it's entirely explainable. you can sense their feelings or you can be coincident with them and connected to them. And so that also explains why really good relationships with bonded pairs are so powerful because you must become quantum mechanically entangled with your partner which has all sorts of fascinating aspects towards relationships. So I think we're reaching the world of quantum science and quantum science will release us from the limitations which you know have governed our prior civilization. And so that's an aspect I think deserves a great deal of examination and open-mindedness because it's going to take us to a place that none of us can imagine. >> Yeah. Gosh, that's so exciting. And and one of the people that has perhaps done um that I know of, you know, scientifically has sort of gone into this realm a little bit would be Joe Despensza. I don't know if you've ever followed any of his work. Um, >> Joe Despensza is he he talks to he he had a very severe accident um doing I think it was a triathlon or or whatever it was anyway. He he he crushed his spine. They'll be I know I've got listeners that have followed Joe Despenszer and I don't want to tell his story wrong but it's along this concept. So if I get minor details wrong, please don't send me a heap of emails telling me that I've got these details wrong, which is sometimes what happens. But um anyway, he he went into hospital and they said, "You'll never walk again." And he knew he he knew some stuff. He'd done yoga and things and he was kind of in the spiritual, you know, he had spiritual knowledge and he decided he was going to have to heal himself. And so he would spend three hours a day at that time reconstructing his spine in his in his mind. And he did. He healed himself. And and you know, we've we've heard of healers and people that can manipulate That's a perfect example of this capability and I genuinely think if there's one thing that gives me hope that this know evil axis of autocracy does not come to shape human history through a terrible trial be it World War II is that individuals that understand this process you just described with Joe Despensza can actually start to change their world and become incredibly effective and powerful. And I think democracy and individuality all lead to that process. That's what the distation is. And so I believe and I have a degree of hope that the ultimate root out of this is the individual's capability to really appreciate the power they have. Well, that that's what he did was because he then went out and started to teach other people to do this and he now runs these workshops and he tries to he he tries to do a lot of scientific experiments but he teaches people to get into such a mental state of manipulating energy that they're able to manifest these things whether it's man whether it's getting out the way of their body and so their body heals itself. a bit like, you know, he wrote um you are the placebo, which is this idea that, you know, people can take a placebo. You can take a placebo thinking that you're taking a chemotherapy pill and your hair will fall out. It it's not a chemotherapy pill, but it's just a placebo, but you have all the side effects from it because you're so convinced that you're you're taking it. And so he he wrote that our bodies really have all these chemicals that can heal you that it's a chemical factor and it's just a case of us understanding how to utilize that, how to utilize the energy in it. And he's fascinating some fascinating fascinating experiments and work and he's got I I know him also because um very close friend of mine had a brain tumor. He had it successfully removed um thank goodness but he lives in this fear of it coming back. But over the time where he had it removed, I did a tremendous amount of research as to brain tumors and what could heal them and you know went down the entire rabbit hole as you do. And um you know there there's some people that have had inoperable brain tumors that have gone to his workshops, learned how to get into that meditative state in their own mind and healed themselves of these completely, you know, the tumor completely disappearing. I mean the the stories are are remarkable and he he talks about this heartb brain coherence that you heart mind coherence that you you get into um this special state that you you get into which enables you to manipulate these outcomes or to achieve these outcomes and he you know does all sorts of experiments on it but he's the only one that I know but they are he has had some some uh uh they are trying to get him at the moment Um the authorities have gone out against him a little bit because of course what he's doing is eating is you know spreading this concept of voodoo science as they put it. Um you know taking >> well you know it's right on the forefront of what is so our society will accept or won't accept and it's that breaking those limitations not just for individuals but collectively because we're a collective organism. So it's not just an individual has a different perspective. It really makes a difference when the whole society changes its perspective and that's I think we mankind will make a leap forward and I'm you know despite the fact I see a very challenging time ahead and I've spent a lot of time trying to understand what that means and how to avoid it I do see this continuum beyond it which is this evolution of human consciousness and its potential that's could be really exciting um and I think we do have to hold the torch out for that but also we can't just distract ourselves with the torch and we have to deal with the current which is pretty ugly at the moment and the duality which is deal with the ugly and have an aspirational part of you which keeps an eye on the bigger prize you know for mankind >> because ultimately that that's our path to peace is through >> it's it's our evolutionary goal in effect and it's the only way in my when I finish my my the edit of this book it explains why we go to war and I promise you when you read it, you'll be horrified because we go to war to evolve. And if we go to war to evolve, how the hell do we actually stop it and not and not stop evolving? And that's one of the paradigms we need to answer. But the evidence is overwhelming. And that's why wars keep happening despite none of us wanting them is because it's an evolutionary mechanism that we've adopted and actually probably every other species in the universe has because it has it has a very plausible mechanism to increase adaptability and therefore anti-entropy and therefore advance of civilization. M it it that that was one of the core things I think I've learned from you with this this idea of war being a process of evolution which nobody else I've ever I've never heard anybody else bring up that concept before. >> It was it was one of my original thoughts. I had to own up to that. one of one of those one of those ones that hasn't been leeched away from by by other people, you know, sort of I know that >> well it's a funny thing being a thought leader because actually I I do know you know when I come up with over the last 20 years concepts which have been quite different they have not been prevalent and you know multipolar unipolar world the decline of the American empire back in 2002 who ever were using those phrases polarization never used and I made them up in my dyslexic brain and then essentially was amazed to see whether I was one of a few or the only one that propagated the idea they spread. And of course then there's no attribution to those ideas because that's how humans work. The guy that made the first spear thrower rushed in and said, "Hey buddy, you should have one of these." No one remembers his name, but everyone is a spear because that's what human communication and evolution is. So it's quite amusing seeing that. And um I've seen it, you know, over the past 20 years with my work. And entropy is another example. When I started to talk about entropy in human systems, no one was talking about it, but now actually it's crept into consciousness over the past six years of talking about it. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm I'm going to let you go because um we've been going for quite a while. I get told off that that my interviews are too long uh by >> I pass this very quickly when I've been interviewed by [laughter] >> But um yeah, thank you so much. It's absolutely fascinating. I could talk to you for hours and hours. Um, I I'm still quite dedicated to the idea of getting you over to Australia um and uh doing some kind of event. I would love it if if you and Andrew could come over um at some point, but uh we will see. >> Sounds like an invitation I couldn't refuse. >> It it Thank you. That's very nice of you. How how we're all going to [laughter] actually bring it to reality is is unknown, but it's nice of you to accept the invitation nevertheless. Um >> accept it. Yes. Um but we we will we will talk about that. It will we'll manifest it with our quantum um powers. We'll find some way of of bringing it to fruition. Um we'll find ourselves quantum entangled in some in some [laughter] >> um Okay. Well, we we will we will finish there and thank you so much. Um and again, let's just for a final plug for you just to throw out that your website is David Murray.co.uk UK and nowhere nowhere is anyone going to find more comprehensive detailed analysis of what's going on geopolitically across the world than coming directly to you. I truly believe that um I get some of your content and it's it's detailed, it's analytical, it's uh thoughtprovoking, it's um concepts that no you don't think about yourself. um you know new concepts and and it looks upon things as as no one else I know or have spoken to has looked upon them. Um so endlessly fascinating. So just an encouragement to every everybody and I'll put the link in in the email as well to go to your website and to have a look at um the information that you have got there and the services that you provide >> and no thank you for those kind words. I mean, sign up to my nations gold because that's really the geopolitical product which is really an investment grade product which I've designed for the public. So, it was part of the educational process. If you're higher up the investment curve, I've got a thing called prediction strings which tells you every day what's been happening and my slant on how that news works. So, you get real-time information. And if you're an asset manager, professional manager, we have a whole inside out hedge fund with an incredible alpha generated processes which you really can't afford not to follow because it's a CIO of 40 years of experience sitting alongside you. So that's that's another product range which is very powerful. >> Yeah, it sounds fantastic. I I don't know. I don't know where you get the time. People say that to me funnily enough, but I think you produce incredible amount of material. So >> Well, thank you. I think probably I'm I work a bit too hard. >> Yeah. >> But but I'm driven by this curiosity and fascination for what I see around me. And I've also taken global forecast to places I never originally planned or thought it would go to. And that's been an amazing journey, you know, in terms of its understanding of how the world works and articulation of it that then is shared and put in the public domain >> because forces you to be more rigorous actually than if you were just in the bath musing over a whiskey thinking about the world and I've enjoyed that very much. It's one of the great achievements of my life actually, especially as a dyslexic that couldn't write 20 years ago. >> Yeah. Ju just incredible. Just incredible. I can relate to it somewhat, you know, because I I greatly enjoy doing the stuff that I do at Land Cycle Investor. It's one of it's become an absolute passion to produce that each week, even though it's not [laughter] it's not the only thing that I do. So, I really do understand, you know, the sort of drive drive to do work like this. But, um, so appreciate it, David. We we will talk again soon. >> Thank you, Katherine. It's always a privilege to be on your show.