Gold Being Revalued as MONEY Again – 'This Rally is Different'
Summary
Gold Market Revaluation: The podcast discusses the current gold market rally, emphasizing that gold is being revalued as a core monetary asset, influenced by persistent inflation and eroding trust in fiat currencies.
Central Bank Gold Buying: Central banks are diversifying away from the US dollar, with significant gold purchases by countries like China, India, Poland, and Turkey, indicating a long-term trend towards gold as a monetary anchor.
Basel III Impact: The implementation of Basel III, which reclassifies gold as a tier one asset, marks a structural shift in the financial system, further supporting gold's role as a monetary asset.
Gold Mining Sector: The gold mining sector, particularly gold mining stocks, has seen a significant rally, with the GDX ETF up over 95% year-to-date, driven by margin expansion and underallocation by institutional investors.
Investment Opportunities: The podcast highlights the potential for significant gains in junior mining stocks, which have historically outperformed during gold bull markets, and emphasizes the need for the industry to engage retail investors more effectively.
Kirkland Lake Discoveries: The company has a substantial exploration portfolio in Ontario's Abitibi Greenstone Belt, focusing on underexplored areas with significant potential for new gold discoveries.
Exploration and Infrastructure: Kirkland Lake Discoveries benefits from extensive infrastructure and expertise in the Kirkland Lake mining camp, with ongoing exploration efforts aimed at unlocking new deposits.
Future Catalysts: Upcoming catalysts for Kirkland Lake Discoveries include assay results from recent drilling, ongoing exploration programs, and initiatives to engage retail investors through accessible content.
Transcript
Hello everybody and welcome into commodity culture where our goal is to make you a better investor in the commodities sector. My name is Jesse Day. Before we dive in, standard disclaimer. Nothing here is investment advice. Do your own due diligence. And today's guest is the CEO of Kirkland Lake Discoveries, a company that has assembled a 400 square kilometer exploration portfolio in the Kirkland Lake region of Ontario's Abatibbei Greenstone Belt. It's Stefan Sleowitz. Great to have you on the show. >> Thanks, Jesse. I'm really looking forward to this. >> Me, too. I want to start off with a discussion of the overall gold market and then we'll dive into Kirkland Lake. Very exciting times for gold right now, breaking out to new all-time highs and climbing higher after being in a consolidation pattern for around 4 months. What does this move in gold tell you, and where do you think we go from here? >> You know, I I think this move is in in gold is different. Um, you know, what I what I think we're seeing here is not just another rally in gold, you know, but we're seeing a a repricing of gold. You know, for for decades, gold has been touted as a hedge, but what we're seeing now is gold being revalued as a core monetary asset by the broader market. You know, there's a a series of of macro factors that are leading to this and and influencing it. But, uh, first and foremost, I think it's it's the the, you know, inflation. Everyone remembers when uh Jerome Powell said, you know, we're experienced this transitory inflation and we were led to believe it was going to be a short-term bump and things would correct shortly after that. And you know, we're 5 years later and it's still going on. It's lasted way longer than any central bank could have ever predicted, you know. So even if even if there is moderation in the CPI, the cost of living is still ballooning. food, energy costs, housing, everything keeps rising. And you know what that's doing is eroding the the trust that people have in fiat currencies. So, you know, we're seeing global debt at record levels. Uh, you know, the US alone has over $35 trillion in debt. That's such a an an unfathomable number. You know, if you if you put it in perspective, a billion seconds ago, it was January 1994. And you know, you had uh I don't know, the the Mariah Carey at the top of the charts at that time. If you go back 35 trillion seconds, that's over a million years ago. You're back to the Stone Age. So like it's just a huge huge huge number, you know? I like I I wish I had a billion dollars, but 35 trillion, that's like Yeah. It's just an insane amount, you know? And it's it's not just the the debt. they're still running, you know, multi- trillion dollar deficits on a a yearly basis. So, it's not that these numbers are are just staggering to start with. They're growing at a staggering rate. And so, people's trust in fiat currencies is disappearing. Um, and and typically in the past, the only way that these things have been um, you know, remedied or or fixed was through hyperinflation or or currency debasement. And both of those things are extremely bullish for for gold in the long run. Um, you know, so, you know, I think we're seeing more of a a revaluation because there's there's dorization happening. People are are moving away from holding dollars as a as a a form of, you know, of currency. Um, you know, we're seeing a distinct viewpoint with that change shortly after what happened, you know, with the sanctions on Russia. A lot of a lot of countries are going, "Okay, well, you know, if the the US or yeah, if the US doesn't like what we're doing, I don't want them to basically step in and say, okay, well, I'm going to take all of your your resources or or stop you from being able to participate in global trade." So, you know, more central banks are moving away from the dollar and gold is that that neutral anchor that's always existed, but it it basically it's countries are coming back to that being like we can't we can't can't trust the US anymore to to stay neutral in conflicts. Um, and so that's where gold is is is coming in. And so you're you're going to see a much more broad long-term trend towards diversification. And you know that that's what I think is this is that revaluation. It's not just a a shortterm, you know, rally. We're seeing central banks buying in record numbers, you know, and it's not just it's not just China, it's not just India, but we're getting, you know, Poland, Turkey are increasing their their buying as well. And so, you know, the the the changes are are going to be a long-term thing. And the the opportunity or the the risk that I see still is that you know both retail and institutional in the west are still severely underallocated. You know their their exposures are probably less than 2% you know in gold if any and typically what we see at the end of a a bull cycle is is closer to 10%. Um so to me this is just the you know this is the the early stages. It's it's not, you know, a rally. It's fiat going down. You know, gold gold isn't necessarily ballooning and going up. It's it's fiat is decreasing. And I think this breakout is the market finally realizing that. >> Yeah, great assessment. And you've mentioned some of the signs that gold is starting to be increasingly involved once again in the monetary system. You talked about central bank gold buying. Obviously, that's been a very big theme. We also have Bal Basil 3 being implemented now which allows banks to hold gold as a tier one asset on their balance sheets. We have bricks members looking to settle more trades amongst themselves with gold as an underlying benchmark and so much more. What are your thoughts on these developments and gold potentially being considered money again? Is is that what you see up ahead? >> Yeah, that's the thing is gold has always been money. It's it's been a store of value for thousands of years. You know what what's new is that it's the official financial system is starting to recognize it again. You know, Basel 3 was was the turning point. You it took gold from uh tier three asset which was considered highly risky and moved it to tier one which basically treats it the same as as as cash or or sovereign bonds, you know, and that's that's a structural shift. Um and so again, back to our first point, this isn't a short-term thing. this is is a long-term process. Um, you know, the the thousand plus tons of gold that were bought last year is that's not a trade, you know, like we're those are huge volumes. This is a strategic shift, you know, bricks discussing the trade settlements for sure. That's that's just going back to a time 50 plus years ago where that's how everything was settled, right? Like if if back in the 1700s I had a trade deficit with Spain, I'd load up my gallion with boolean and and ship it across to them, right? And and that's how we would settle it. And so they're just trying to go back to that. You know, these days it's highly impractical to to move that much gold. Um not to mention, you know, risky. Pirates are still a thing. Um, so maybe we see, you know, a digital backed currency or or, you know, central banks being backed by gold again. Um, you know, I think we're moving towards that. It's gold's that that neutral anchor, right? Um, and so it's going to provide that safe way to settle trades. That's that's not, you know, manipulative. Uh, which a lot of times we're seeing, you know, in in the current markets, that's what's going on, you know. And I I don't think the dollar is going to disappear overnight. like I I don't think that's the intention or the the change that's going to happen. But what it's signaling is that there's there's a multi-polar monetary system. You know, they at one end we have that dollar, at the other end we have bricks with the gold, and we're seeing that that that split. Um and so you're going to see more countries diversifying across those those two polars. Um, and and up to this point in time, the majority have all been on the, you know, the the US dollar. And so, you're going to see that diversification across to to gold, you know, and again, Western investors are behind. They're their portfolios are they're tech heavy, they're debt heavy, and they almost have zero gold, you know, and and central banks have, you know, been diversifying away from the dollar and accumulating more physical gold. And so I think that's where the opportunity lies for for the western markets is that we're going to have, you know, more people moving into the space as as we're seeing, you know, this this trend catch on. You know, we we we have a tendency to be at the front of those curves, being central to the market, being part of it, and seeing the ins and outs every single day. But what's going to end up happening is more and more people are going to realize, you know, these central banks are buying a massive amount of gold. Maybe I should be buying some, too. Or maybe I should be looking at some other torque that can come along with it, you know. And I I don't think gold needs to replace the dollar. I I think it it just needs to restore balance. Um, you know, the the fiat currencies are are out of control to printing money like crazy and there's no tie to any type of anchor. And so gold will be that anchor again. And I I think what we're seeing is that quiet but powerful, you know, remonetization of gold. So, it's to me this is a really exciting time. Scary, but exciting. >> Yeah. Yeah. Completely agree. I want to turn to the gold mining space because this is an area of the market that has really come to life recently. The GDX ETF is up over 95% year to date. It might even be higher by the time of this recording. What are the factors that brought us here? And do you think we're closer to the beginning or to the end of a bull cycle for gold mining stocks at this point? I I I think um with regards to um the the change in the shift that we've seen, it's you know, it's showing how explosive miners can be, right? So, we're we're seeing we're seeing that increase. We're seeing, you know, close to 100%. Um it's been left for dead for years, this sector, right? The the valuations were grossly depressed. capital was scarce, you know, sentiment was way down, and so people were avoiding it. And I, you know, it's hard for me to blame them, right? Um, so the recent rally in my eyes is driven by margin expansion. You take $3,500 gold versus costs that haven't risen the same way, right? So that that gap is just getting bigger and bigger. And because it was such a crappy market previously, producers were cutting costs, they were, you know, getting as lean as possible, focusing on profitability. And now as gold's breaking out, that that gap is is growing where they're they're making a heck of a lot more money without those increased costs. Um, so, you know, we're seeing more people that are slowly trickling into the space because they're they're realizing this and I I think that's what's what's pushing this this gap up. But I to me it's still extremely early. Institutional money still hasn't even touched the space in in prior bulls. you know, equities are going to multiple outperform the actual gold price, and we're not seeing that yet. So, to me, it's still very very early. >> And yeah, as you mentioned, with these incredible gains, we're we're not seeing any institutional or at least very little institutional interest. We're not seeing any discussion in the mainstream financial press. As you mentioned, very few, if any, financial adviserss would even discuss gold with their clients. I think some of them might look at you funny if you brought up the possibility of owning physical gold, let alone the mining stocks. They would tell you that's way too risky. You need to be in 60/40 portfolio. So, what what do you think it will take to bring gold mining stocks to the awareness of Main Street into more generalist investors? And what do you think could eventually bring the institutions in? Is it a certain gold price once we get to 4,000 that'll start attracting the the bigger money? What are your thoughts? >> Wow, man. We were talking about this when gold was, you know, 1,700. It was like, oh, when we hit 2,000, this is going to be it. And then we're like, oh no, 20 2500, that's going to be it. And oh, no, 3,000. This is the magic number. You know, they So, I don't know what what it's going to take to to to bring it in. The the way I see it, our industry is a little bit backwards in the approach that we take. Um, you know, the the average um the average deck is designed for geologists and people who have a deep understanding of of geology and and the industry. And so we're creating these massive barriers to anyone coming into the space. And and so to me that's that's one of the the primary shifts that needs to happen is that we need to start focusing on retail investors on layman. You know creating these investor decks that are 10 slides long and just focus on the simplicity of it. You can still have your technical deck to the side to for for the you know the more in-depth investor but we need to be starting to focus on these these people. um you know the the primary form of content that's consumed is short form video you know followed closely by long long long form video which is my personal favorite um but the how many junior explore codes are focusing on that how many miners are focusing on that if that's how people are consuming their content and we're not bringing anything to them from that regard it's like what's what what are we missing here right so one of the things that we did uh with with Kirk and Link was it was okay, let's start a uh a YouTube series uh KLDC treasure hunters. And the whole idea behind it was like come come experience this treasure hunt with us. Come behind the scenes. You know, we strap GoPros to the geologists when they go in the bush and they're they're peeling back moss or they're they're looking at, you know, rocks coming out of the drill core. The whole point is like experience what we're going through and what we're doing so you have an understanding and you can see the value proposition of what we're putting forward and and what can come of this. Um, and so to me that's one of the the biggest shifts and changes that we need to see is is let's let's get more of our industry talking to the retail person to the layman and and bringing them along for the ride. There's there's so often I've been an investor in the space for 20 years and the number of times you're following a company you're like this is a great idea I love what they're into and then 6 months later the veil drops and they're somewhere else completely and you're like what just happened right and that's a that's a common theme in this industry where it's you know there's there's no transparency whatsoever and I get we have to be extremely careful especially after you know certain companies did things that they've done you know to to to not push and be overly um what's the word I'm looking for? Overly uh pumpy or or whatever it may be. It's but to me it's it's transparency. It's that's more important. It's being bringing people along for the ride so they have a better understanding of of the space. Yes, I think $4,000 gold for the long run. I think a debt crisis or financial crisis that's going to bring more people in, but realistically it's uh we're not going to keep those people if we don't change the way we're doing things. And so, you know, I I I think we need to have more short form video, long form video, um really speaking to the masses in that way. I think it's the the only way we're going to keep people in the long run. >> Yeah, that's a a great comment. making it more accessible for your average retail investor to explore the gold mining space without being daunted by these Yeah. decks full of geological information that they don't understand and they just figure, well, this is too complicated. So, I I very much like that approach. Yeah. >> Well, it's funny, Jesse. My my uh my wife just switched financial advisors and and I had had influence on her uh portfolio previous to that point. So, you know, she had a couple of juniors, she had a couple majors, she had some, you know, funds and the investment adviser looked at, she's like, "Oh, those are just a little bit too risky for us. We don't really, you know, know how to deal with those." Sold every single one of them. And I was like, "You've got to be kidding me." I'm like, "Of all times." I'm like, "You really don't see any value in this right now." So, I was like, "Yep, you do you. I'll stay in my lane over here and I'll keep doing what I'm doing." And you know, in a couple years, let's prefu uh compare the the returns that each of us got. >> Yes. Um that that is interesting. It's almost like kryptonite to these financial advisors. Um they just don't want to touch it. They just simply don't understand it. I think that's what it comes down to. I think if you were to tell them gold is money, they would look at you like you're stupid. So 100%. >> Um they just don't get it. But uh let's dive into Kirkland Lake and how it fits into the overall picture. Could you start by giving us an overview of the company? >> Sure. So, um, like you said, we have 400 square kilometers, uh, this massive land package. It's in the Abby Greenstone belt, which is one of the most, you know, prolific areas in the world for gold mining. There's been over 300 million ounces discovered. Um, what we did is we accumulated this land package in a bare market where people stopped caring. uh we were able to make trades on land that most people wouldn't have held on to for 20 plus years. Um and so we were able to accumulate these pieces and and build this massive land package. We're focused um in the Blake River group of rocks in the within the Abatibi. And a lot of people might not know what the Blake River group of rocks are, but they're they're home to some of the biggest mines on the Quebec side of the border. Um, so you know, Luron, Cumont, uh, Runiranda, like those those camps, they're they're large VMS, um, deposits that go to the bowels of the earth and they're they're high-grade gold that go along with them. So, it's something special about the Blake River group of rocks is that they they carry a lot of gold. Um, and so our whole thesis was, you know, there's this this line that goes between Ontario and Quebec, and there's been one discovery on the Ontario side, and there's been, you know, 20, 30, 40 discoveries on the Quebec side within the Blake River group of rocks. And so we go, okay, well, is it is it because those rocks change at that border that's man-made that somebody drew a line on at one point in time, or or do they continue across there? Um, and and we think it's just underexplored. There's been dogma in the camp. You know, everyone was always looking for high-grade gold in Kirkland Lake. Um, you know, that that was just along the Larter Lake crack, basically this massive regional structure. And so, you know, we're going a little bit contrarian, a little bit anti-dogmatic, and going, let's go north of here and explore this area because that's where we think there's going to be the next major deposit. Well, you certainly have a compelling land package as you've pointed out in the heart of the Kirkland Lake gold camp in the Abatibbe Greenstone belt with a property adjacent to one of Agniko Eagle's producing mines. Talk to us about the infrastructure you have in place there, the historic production in that area and anything else pertinent to your projects that that is top of mind right now. >> Kirken Lake is a 100-year-old mining camp. Like, it's it's been around forever and so the infrastructure there is farreaching. you know, literally everything you could possibly need. It's it's a brownfields camp. Um, you know, over 27 million ounces of gold have been extracted from basically within the town of Kirkland Lake. And so with that, it's, you know, we we have access to some of the best people, the best drillers, geologists, etc., um, in the world. And, you know, you mentioned Agniko, they have the Macassam mine, which is in production. and it's had, you know, a 5year mine life for the last 25 years and it just keeps growing every time. Um, you know, they they put out a new resource, they get a little bit deeper, there's more gold. Um, they're moving uh the upper beaver into production, which is an intrusion related copper gold project. Um, that's on the east side of our property, uh, less than 2 km from our border. Uh, so they've already sunk the shaft there. They'll be pulling ore out in the next two years, uh, probably full production by 2030. So, it's it's a well-known safe jurisdiction. You know, community relations, they understand mining. Uh you just have to treat with treat them with respect and and make sure that everybody's on the same page. Um and so there's really there's no barriers to uh to moving to production once you once you find a deposit. >> Well, you recently released some drill results from the KL West property. I'm going to read a quote from the press release. The results confirm the role of the Winnie Pluton as a key driver of mineralization and represent a significant advance in the company's intrusive related exploration model across a district scale land position. Walk us through the details here and how you plan to capitalize. >> Sure. So the I'm going to I'm going to rewind just a little bit, Jesse, to give you the backstory of this intrusive system because it's uh it will make more sense. So we we did soil sampling, geoysics across our entire property. We did all the boring stuff. Um, you know, the things that majors like seeing. And what it does is it builds the hypothesis and the thesis behind what we're exploring. And so on the west side of our property, there's a large pluton, an intrusion, a granite that's come up through the bowels of the earth. And on the edges of that, our soil sampling showed clusters of pathfinder minerals uh for intrusion related VMS type of deposits. Um, and so we saw elevated gold, uh, Molly, bismouth, tallum, copper, zinc, all those things. And they they were pocketing kind of on the edges of this this intrusion. And the geoysics was showing magnetic highs that are aligning exactly with those those soil samples. And so, uh, when we saw that, we started looking at the surrounding area, and there was one property we hadn't brought into the fold that was on the very southern tip. Um, and so I was able to do an option agreement with those those guys. They had drilled it in the 80s and it hit um some massive sulfides previously and so um they had explored it kind of to the east away from the intrusion. And what we ended up doing is with this new hypothesis drilling it towards the intrusion. And so we had four different holes that intersected semi- massive to massive sulfides. And then on either side of those massive sulfides we had a you know disseminated um sulfides halo. And so that halo is basically indicating that we had, you know, fluid going through these rocks and and depositing those sulfides. Um, so less of a VMS type of system and more towards this intrusion related system. And so the the value that we've we've shown is that this entire intrusion is now far more perspective. You know, we already showed that there was this hypothesis because of the soils and because of the ge the geoysics. Um, but now that we actually have a drill hole that's showing this is intrusion related material, it opens up this entire 17 km contact with this intrusion. And so we've only put four holes into it. It's the first drilling we've done there. Um, and so to help unlock that, we're doing um a high resolution magneto magneto survey, which basically gives us down to about 2 km depth um along that contact to to showcase exactly what that intrusion is is doing. Because a lot of times we think, you know, it's this nice cone shaped, you know, material. Um, but what ends up happening is a lot of times it's like toothpaste going up through a crack. it will take whatever, you know, loose space there is and and and go everywhere and anywhere. Um, and we we encountered that with our drilling where we thought we were going to go through the contact and end up just hitting the intrusion. And so we we know it's not this angle, it's more like this. And so the uh the whole idea is if you can find these pockets where that intrusion squished, you know, the country rock together, you're going to get deposits forming in those areas. And so it's not necessarily just this one drill hole that we've done. it's unlocking that entire 17 kilometers. Um, and so those are the steps that we're doing right now. >> Great. And so when it comes to catalysts and news flow upcoming, what are the main things that shareholders can look forward to for the remainder of 2025 and into next year? >> Um, the assay, we haven't even gotten assays back yet for for this drilling. So we we have, like I said, we have four holes that have um semi- massive sulfides with or massive sulfides with a semi massive halo and to disseminated halo. Um, so those are going to be probably the biggest catalyst. Um, you know, there was a lot of calcyite, pyite, spalerate. So we know it's going to be high-grade zinc and copper um, in in those drill holes. We just don't know if there's going to be gold or silver that came along with it. Typically in the Blake River group of rocks, you do see that elevated number. And so we're we're really keeping our fingers crossed that we're going to see, you know, something similar. Um, and so that that's the the primary catalyst coming up in the next few weeks. um labs have been delayed, unfortunately, which is is great. That means the industry is is functioning and and everybody's working, but it it's frustrating because instead of it being 2 weeks, we're we're now into four weeks. Um and you know, we contacted the lab this morning and yeah, we should have them by the the 22nd of September and I was like, well, that's way past our 21-day promise. So, it's frustrating, but at the same time, it it's it's outside of our control and we just got to, you know, keep going with it. Um the MT survey is going to really highlight exactly where those pockets of mineralization are. So it'll pick up conductivity. It's going to pick up those contacts. So when you combine that with our our surficial geoysics of the the magnetics along with the geochemistry, there's going to be lots of of highlights of these are where we're going to be testing. Um and that's that's what's next is is moving, you know, into that continual drill program. We have a lot of interest right now. Um and so we we expect this is going to be an ongoing drill program, you know, for the next year type of thing where we're going to be unlocking this this entire district. So, um consistently putting out drill results, you know, keeping up with our KT treasure hunters. So, you're going to be getting updates all the time. Um and it's just this this ongoing program where we can potentially be unlocking this entire 17 kilometers with deposit after deposit after deposit is what we're aiming for. So that's kind of the the next year which is a a very exciting time given everything we already talked about today and and what's happening with gold price. So >> is there anything we haven't yet touched on or anything you think it's important to emphasize um the potential shareholders of Kirkland Lake Discovery should be aware of? The only thing that I think of Jesse is the the given these markets and given the the timing that we're in um the torque that juniors provide is is exponentially higher than than gold or or you know GDX specifically if you're looking at miners you know the the juniors in the past have far far exceeded what what those guys are doing. And if we're in the early innings, which which most people in the industry are believing, that means we have a lot of runway for those juniors. You know, I I had somebody the other day be like, you I had done an interview and one of the comments was, you know, I wish you had brought this to me in June, July before it tripled. And I was like, well, doesn't mean we're done. You know, like there's still a lot of runway for for this this industry. And and we're on the verge of massive discoveries. So, it's not uh you know the torque that comes with those junior miners is is insane and that's kind of what we're looking at here. And you know, you couple that with a safe jurisdiction on the verge of discovery. This is a really interesting play right now. >> Great. Well, I'm going to put links in the description to Kirkland Lake Discovery's website, social media, and of course the YouTube channel so people can follow along with that treasure hunter series. That sounds really fascinating. Um Stephan, it's been a fantastic conversation. And thank you so much for coming on. >> No, I appreciate Jesse. >> Commodity Culture is a series on commodities and natural resources. If you would like to see more, be sure to subscribe and hit the bell notification so you're always up tod date with the latest episodes.
Gold Being Revalued as MONEY Again – 'This Rally is Different'
Summary
Transcript
Hello everybody and welcome into commodity culture where our goal is to make you a better investor in the commodities sector. My name is Jesse Day. Before we dive in, standard disclaimer. Nothing here is investment advice. Do your own due diligence. And today's guest is the CEO of Kirkland Lake Discoveries, a company that has assembled a 400 square kilometer exploration portfolio in the Kirkland Lake region of Ontario's Abatibbei Greenstone Belt. It's Stefan Sleowitz. Great to have you on the show. >> Thanks, Jesse. I'm really looking forward to this. >> Me, too. I want to start off with a discussion of the overall gold market and then we'll dive into Kirkland Lake. Very exciting times for gold right now, breaking out to new all-time highs and climbing higher after being in a consolidation pattern for around 4 months. What does this move in gold tell you, and where do you think we go from here? >> You know, I I think this move is in in gold is different. Um, you know, what I what I think we're seeing here is not just another rally in gold, you know, but we're seeing a a repricing of gold. You know, for for decades, gold has been touted as a hedge, but what we're seeing now is gold being revalued as a core monetary asset by the broader market. You know, there's a a series of of macro factors that are leading to this and and influencing it. But, uh, first and foremost, I think it's it's the the, you know, inflation. Everyone remembers when uh Jerome Powell said, you know, we're experienced this transitory inflation and we were led to believe it was going to be a short-term bump and things would correct shortly after that. And you know, we're 5 years later and it's still going on. It's lasted way longer than any central bank could have ever predicted, you know. So even if even if there is moderation in the CPI, the cost of living is still ballooning. food, energy costs, housing, everything keeps rising. And you know what that's doing is eroding the the trust that people have in fiat currencies. So, you know, we're seeing global debt at record levels. Uh, you know, the US alone has over $35 trillion in debt. That's such a an an unfathomable number. You know, if you if you put it in perspective, a billion seconds ago, it was January 1994. And you know, you had uh I don't know, the the Mariah Carey at the top of the charts at that time. If you go back 35 trillion seconds, that's over a million years ago. You're back to the Stone Age. So like it's just a huge huge huge number, you know? I like I I wish I had a billion dollars, but 35 trillion, that's like Yeah. It's just an insane amount, you know? And it's it's not just the the debt. they're still running, you know, multi- trillion dollar deficits on a a yearly basis. So, it's not that these numbers are are just staggering to start with. They're growing at a staggering rate. And so, people's trust in fiat currencies is disappearing. Um, and and typically in the past, the only way that these things have been um, you know, remedied or or fixed was through hyperinflation or or currency debasement. And both of those things are extremely bullish for for gold in the long run. Um, you know, so, you know, I think we're seeing more of a a revaluation because there's there's dorization happening. People are are moving away from holding dollars as a as a a form of, you know, of currency. Um, you know, we're seeing a distinct viewpoint with that change shortly after what happened, you know, with the sanctions on Russia. A lot of a lot of countries are going, "Okay, well, you know, if the the US or yeah, if the US doesn't like what we're doing, I don't want them to basically step in and say, okay, well, I'm going to take all of your your resources or or stop you from being able to participate in global trade." So, you know, more central banks are moving away from the dollar and gold is that that neutral anchor that's always existed, but it it basically it's countries are coming back to that being like we can't we can't can't trust the US anymore to to stay neutral in conflicts. Um, and so that's where gold is is is coming in. And so you're you're going to see a much more broad long-term trend towards diversification. And you know that that's what I think is this is that revaluation. It's not just a a shortterm, you know, rally. We're seeing central banks buying in record numbers, you know, and it's not just it's not just China, it's not just India, but we're getting, you know, Poland, Turkey are increasing their their buying as well. And so, you know, the the the changes are are going to be a long-term thing. And the the opportunity or the the risk that I see still is that you know both retail and institutional in the west are still severely underallocated. You know their their exposures are probably less than 2% you know in gold if any and typically what we see at the end of a a bull cycle is is closer to 10%. Um so to me this is just the you know this is the the early stages. It's it's not, you know, a rally. It's fiat going down. You know, gold gold isn't necessarily ballooning and going up. It's it's fiat is decreasing. And I think this breakout is the market finally realizing that. >> Yeah, great assessment. And you've mentioned some of the signs that gold is starting to be increasingly involved once again in the monetary system. You talked about central bank gold buying. Obviously, that's been a very big theme. We also have Bal Basil 3 being implemented now which allows banks to hold gold as a tier one asset on their balance sheets. We have bricks members looking to settle more trades amongst themselves with gold as an underlying benchmark and so much more. What are your thoughts on these developments and gold potentially being considered money again? Is is that what you see up ahead? >> Yeah, that's the thing is gold has always been money. It's it's been a store of value for thousands of years. You know what what's new is that it's the official financial system is starting to recognize it again. You know, Basel 3 was was the turning point. You it took gold from uh tier three asset which was considered highly risky and moved it to tier one which basically treats it the same as as as cash or or sovereign bonds, you know, and that's that's a structural shift. Um and so again, back to our first point, this isn't a short-term thing. this is is a long-term process. Um, you know, the the thousand plus tons of gold that were bought last year is that's not a trade, you know, like we're those are huge volumes. This is a strategic shift, you know, bricks discussing the trade settlements for sure. That's that's just going back to a time 50 plus years ago where that's how everything was settled, right? Like if if back in the 1700s I had a trade deficit with Spain, I'd load up my gallion with boolean and and ship it across to them, right? And and that's how we would settle it. And so they're just trying to go back to that. You know, these days it's highly impractical to to move that much gold. Um not to mention, you know, risky. Pirates are still a thing. Um, so maybe we see, you know, a digital backed currency or or, you know, central banks being backed by gold again. Um, you know, I think we're moving towards that. It's gold's that that neutral anchor, right? Um, and so it's going to provide that safe way to settle trades. That's that's not, you know, manipulative. Uh, which a lot of times we're seeing, you know, in in the current markets, that's what's going on, you know. And I I don't think the dollar is going to disappear overnight. like I I don't think that's the intention or the the change that's going to happen. But what it's signaling is that there's there's a multi-polar monetary system. You know, they at one end we have that dollar, at the other end we have bricks with the gold, and we're seeing that that that split. Um and so you're going to see more countries diversifying across those those two polars. Um, and and up to this point in time, the majority have all been on the, you know, the the US dollar. And so, you're going to see that diversification across to to gold, you know, and again, Western investors are behind. They're their portfolios are they're tech heavy, they're debt heavy, and they almost have zero gold, you know, and and central banks have, you know, been diversifying away from the dollar and accumulating more physical gold. And so I think that's where the opportunity lies for for the western markets is that we're going to have, you know, more people moving into the space as as we're seeing, you know, this this trend catch on. You know, we we we have a tendency to be at the front of those curves, being central to the market, being part of it, and seeing the ins and outs every single day. But what's going to end up happening is more and more people are going to realize, you know, these central banks are buying a massive amount of gold. Maybe I should be buying some, too. Or maybe I should be looking at some other torque that can come along with it, you know. And I I don't think gold needs to replace the dollar. I I think it it just needs to restore balance. Um, you know, the the fiat currencies are are out of control to printing money like crazy and there's no tie to any type of anchor. And so gold will be that anchor again. And I I think what we're seeing is that quiet but powerful, you know, remonetization of gold. So, it's to me this is a really exciting time. Scary, but exciting. >> Yeah. Yeah. Completely agree. I want to turn to the gold mining space because this is an area of the market that has really come to life recently. The GDX ETF is up over 95% year to date. It might even be higher by the time of this recording. What are the factors that brought us here? And do you think we're closer to the beginning or to the end of a bull cycle for gold mining stocks at this point? I I I think um with regards to um the the change in the shift that we've seen, it's you know, it's showing how explosive miners can be, right? So, we're we're seeing we're seeing that increase. We're seeing, you know, close to 100%. Um it's been left for dead for years, this sector, right? The the valuations were grossly depressed. capital was scarce, you know, sentiment was way down, and so people were avoiding it. And I, you know, it's hard for me to blame them, right? Um, so the recent rally in my eyes is driven by margin expansion. You take $3,500 gold versus costs that haven't risen the same way, right? So that that gap is just getting bigger and bigger. And because it was such a crappy market previously, producers were cutting costs, they were, you know, getting as lean as possible, focusing on profitability. And now as gold's breaking out, that that gap is is growing where they're they're making a heck of a lot more money without those increased costs. Um, so, you know, we're seeing more people that are slowly trickling into the space because they're they're realizing this and I I think that's what's what's pushing this this gap up. But I to me it's still extremely early. Institutional money still hasn't even touched the space in in prior bulls. you know, equities are going to multiple outperform the actual gold price, and we're not seeing that yet. So, to me, it's still very very early. >> And yeah, as you mentioned, with these incredible gains, we're we're not seeing any institutional or at least very little institutional interest. We're not seeing any discussion in the mainstream financial press. As you mentioned, very few, if any, financial adviserss would even discuss gold with their clients. I think some of them might look at you funny if you brought up the possibility of owning physical gold, let alone the mining stocks. They would tell you that's way too risky. You need to be in 60/40 portfolio. So, what what do you think it will take to bring gold mining stocks to the awareness of Main Street into more generalist investors? And what do you think could eventually bring the institutions in? Is it a certain gold price once we get to 4,000 that'll start attracting the the bigger money? What are your thoughts? >> Wow, man. We were talking about this when gold was, you know, 1,700. It was like, oh, when we hit 2,000, this is going to be it. And then we're like, oh no, 20 2500, that's going to be it. And oh, no, 3,000. This is the magic number. You know, they So, I don't know what what it's going to take to to to bring it in. The the way I see it, our industry is a little bit backwards in the approach that we take. Um, you know, the the average um the average deck is designed for geologists and people who have a deep understanding of of geology and and the industry. And so we're creating these massive barriers to anyone coming into the space. And and so to me that's that's one of the the primary shifts that needs to happen is that we need to start focusing on retail investors on layman. You know creating these investor decks that are 10 slides long and just focus on the simplicity of it. You can still have your technical deck to the side to for for the you know the more in-depth investor but we need to be starting to focus on these these people. um you know the the primary form of content that's consumed is short form video you know followed closely by long long long form video which is my personal favorite um but the how many junior explore codes are focusing on that how many miners are focusing on that if that's how people are consuming their content and we're not bringing anything to them from that regard it's like what's what what are we missing here right so one of the things that we did uh with with Kirk and Link was it was okay, let's start a uh a YouTube series uh KLDC treasure hunters. And the whole idea behind it was like come come experience this treasure hunt with us. Come behind the scenes. You know, we strap GoPros to the geologists when they go in the bush and they're they're peeling back moss or they're they're looking at, you know, rocks coming out of the drill core. The whole point is like experience what we're going through and what we're doing so you have an understanding and you can see the value proposition of what we're putting forward and and what can come of this. Um, and so to me that's one of the the biggest shifts and changes that we need to see is is let's let's get more of our industry talking to the retail person to the layman and and bringing them along for the ride. There's there's so often I've been an investor in the space for 20 years and the number of times you're following a company you're like this is a great idea I love what they're into and then 6 months later the veil drops and they're somewhere else completely and you're like what just happened right and that's a that's a common theme in this industry where it's you know there's there's no transparency whatsoever and I get we have to be extremely careful especially after you know certain companies did things that they've done you know to to to not push and be overly um what's the word I'm looking for? Overly uh pumpy or or whatever it may be. It's but to me it's it's transparency. It's that's more important. It's being bringing people along for the ride so they have a better understanding of of the space. Yes, I think $4,000 gold for the long run. I think a debt crisis or financial crisis that's going to bring more people in, but realistically it's uh we're not going to keep those people if we don't change the way we're doing things. And so, you know, I I I think we need to have more short form video, long form video, um really speaking to the masses in that way. I think it's the the only way we're going to keep people in the long run. >> Yeah, that's a a great comment. making it more accessible for your average retail investor to explore the gold mining space without being daunted by these Yeah. decks full of geological information that they don't understand and they just figure, well, this is too complicated. So, I I very much like that approach. Yeah. >> Well, it's funny, Jesse. My my uh my wife just switched financial advisors and and I had had influence on her uh portfolio previous to that point. So, you know, she had a couple of juniors, she had a couple majors, she had some, you know, funds and the investment adviser looked at, she's like, "Oh, those are just a little bit too risky for us. We don't really, you know, know how to deal with those." Sold every single one of them. And I was like, "You've got to be kidding me." I'm like, "Of all times." I'm like, "You really don't see any value in this right now." So, I was like, "Yep, you do you. I'll stay in my lane over here and I'll keep doing what I'm doing." And you know, in a couple years, let's prefu uh compare the the returns that each of us got. >> Yes. Um that that is interesting. It's almost like kryptonite to these financial advisors. Um they just don't want to touch it. They just simply don't understand it. I think that's what it comes down to. I think if you were to tell them gold is money, they would look at you like you're stupid. So 100%. >> Um they just don't get it. But uh let's dive into Kirkland Lake and how it fits into the overall picture. Could you start by giving us an overview of the company? >> Sure. So, um, like you said, we have 400 square kilometers, uh, this massive land package. It's in the Abby Greenstone belt, which is one of the most, you know, prolific areas in the world for gold mining. There's been over 300 million ounces discovered. Um, what we did is we accumulated this land package in a bare market where people stopped caring. uh we were able to make trades on land that most people wouldn't have held on to for 20 plus years. Um and so we were able to accumulate these pieces and and build this massive land package. We're focused um in the Blake River group of rocks in the within the Abatibi. And a lot of people might not know what the Blake River group of rocks are, but they're they're home to some of the biggest mines on the Quebec side of the border. Um, so you know, Luron, Cumont, uh, Runiranda, like those those camps, they're they're large VMS, um, deposits that go to the bowels of the earth and they're they're high-grade gold that go along with them. So, it's something special about the Blake River group of rocks is that they they carry a lot of gold. Um, and so our whole thesis was, you know, there's this this line that goes between Ontario and Quebec, and there's been one discovery on the Ontario side, and there's been, you know, 20, 30, 40 discoveries on the Quebec side within the Blake River group of rocks. And so we go, okay, well, is it is it because those rocks change at that border that's man-made that somebody drew a line on at one point in time, or or do they continue across there? Um, and and we think it's just underexplored. There's been dogma in the camp. You know, everyone was always looking for high-grade gold in Kirkland Lake. Um, you know, that that was just along the Larter Lake crack, basically this massive regional structure. And so, you know, we're going a little bit contrarian, a little bit anti-dogmatic, and going, let's go north of here and explore this area because that's where we think there's going to be the next major deposit. Well, you certainly have a compelling land package as you've pointed out in the heart of the Kirkland Lake gold camp in the Abatibbe Greenstone belt with a property adjacent to one of Agniko Eagle's producing mines. Talk to us about the infrastructure you have in place there, the historic production in that area and anything else pertinent to your projects that that is top of mind right now. >> Kirken Lake is a 100-year-old mining camp. Like, it's it's been around forever and so the infrastructure there is farreaching. you know, literally everything you could possibly need. It's it's a brownfields camp. Um, you know, over 27 million ounces of gold have been extracted from basically within the town of Kirkland Lake. And so with that, it's, you know, we we have access to some of the best people, the best drillers, geologists, etc., um, in the world. And, you know, you mentioned Agniko, they have the Macassam mine, which is in production. and it's had, you know, a 5year mine life for the last 25 years and it just keeps growing every time. Um, you know, they they put out a new resource, they get a little bit deeper, there's more gold. Um, they're moving uh the upper beaver into production, which is an intrusion related copper gold project. Um, that's on the east side of our property, uh, less than 2 km from our border. Uh, so they've already sunk the shaft there. They'll be pulling ore out in the next two years, uh, probably full production by 2030. So, it's it's a well-known safe jurisdiction. You know, community relations, they understand mining. Uh you just have to treat with treat them with respect and and make sure that everybody's on the same page. Um and so there's really there's no barriers to uh to moving to production once you once you find a deposit. >> Well, you recently released some drill results from the KL West property. I'm going to read a quote from the press release. The results confirm the role of the Winnie Pluton as a key driver of mineralization and represent a significant advance in the company's intrusive related exploration model across a district scale land position. Walk us through the details here and how you plan to capitalize. >> Sure. So the I'm going to I'm going to rewind just a little bit, Jesse, to give you the backstory of this intrusive system because it's uh it will make more sense. So we we did soil sampling, geoysics across our entire property. We did all the boring stuff. Um, you know, the things that majors like seeing. And what it does is it builds the hypothesis and the thesis behind what we're exploring. And so on the west side of our property, there's a large pluton, an intrusion, a granite that's come up through the bowels of the earth. And on the edges of that, our soil sampling showed clusters of pathfinder minerals uh for intrusion related VMS type of deposits. Um, and so we saw elevated gold, uh, Molly, bismouth, tallum, copper, zinc, all those things. And they they were pocketing kind of on the edges of this this intrusion. And the geoysics was showing magnetic highs that are aligning exactly with those those soil samples. And so, uh, when we saw that, we started looking at the surrounding area, and there was one property we hadn't brought into the fold that was on the very southern tip. Um, and so I was able to do an option agreement with those those guys. They had drilled it in the 80s and it hit um some massive sulfides previously and so um they had explored it kind of to the east away from the intrusion. And what we ended up doing is with this new hypothesis drilling it towards the intrusion. And so we had four different holes that intersected semi- massive to massive sulfides. And then on either side of those massive sulfides we had a you know disseminated um sulfides halo. And so that halo is basically indicating that we had, you know, fluid going through these rocks and and depositing those sulfides. Um, so less of a VMS type of system and more towards this intrusion related system. And so the the value that we've we've shown is that this entire intrusion is now far more perspective. You know, we already showed that there was this hypothesis because of the soils and because of the ge the geoysics. Um, but now that we actually have a drill hole that's showing this is intrusion related material, it opens up this entire 17 km contact with this intrusion. And so we've only put four holes into it. It's the first drilling we've done there. Um, and so to help unlock that, we're doing um a high resolution magneto magneto survey, which basically gives us down to about 2 km depth um along that contact to to showcase exactly what that intrusion is is doing. Because a lot of times we think, you know, it's this nice cone shaped, you know, material. Um, but what ends up happening is a lot of times it's like toothpaste going up through a crack. it will take whatever, you know, loose space there is and and and go everywhere and anywhere. Um, and we we encountered that with our drilling where we thought we were going to go through the contact and end up just hitting the intrusion. And so we we know it's not this angle, it's more like this. And so the uh the whole idea is if you can find these pockets where that intrusion squished, you know, the country rock together, you're going to get deposits forming in those areas. And so it's not necessarily just this one drill hole that we've done. it's unlocking that entire 17 kilometers. Um, and so those are the steps that we're doing right now. >> Great. And so when it comes to catalysts and news flow upcoming, what are the main things that shareholders can look forward to for the remainder of 2025 and into next year? >> Um, the assay, we haven't even gotten assays back yet for for this drilling. So we we have, like I said, we have four holes that have um semi- massive sulfides with or massive sulfides with a semi massive halo and to disseminated halo. Um, so those are going to be probably the biggest catalyst. Um, you know, there was a lot of calcyite, pyite, spalerate. So we know it's going to be high-grade zinc and copper um, in in those drill holes. We just don't know if there's going to be gold or silver that came along with it. Typically in the Blake River group of rocks, you do see that elevated number. And so we're we're really keeping our fingers crossed that we're going to see, you know, something similar. Um, and so that that's the the primary catalyst coming up in the next few weeks. um labs have been delayed, unfortunately, which is is great. That means the industry is is functioning and and everybody's working, but it it's frustrating because instead of it being 2 weeks, we're we're now into four weeks. Um and you know, we contacted the lab this morning and yeah, we should have them by the the 22nd of September and I was like, well, that's way past our 21-day promise. So, it's frustrating, but at the same time, it it's it's outside of our control and we just got to, you know, keep going with it. Um the MT survey is going to really highlight exactly where those pockets of mineralization are. So it'll pick up conductivity. It's going to pick up those contacts. So when you combine that with our our surficial geoysics of the the magnetics along with the geochemistry, there's going to be lots of of highlights of these are where we're going to be testing. Um and that's that's what's next is is moving, you know, into that continual drill program. We have a lot of interest right now. Um and so we we expect this is going to be an ongoing drill program, you know, for the next year type of thing where we're going to be unlocking this this entire district. So, um consistently putting out drill results, you know, keeping up with our KT treasure hunters. So, you're going to be getting updates all the time. Um and it's just this this ongoing program where we can potentially be unlocking this entire 17 kilometers with deposit after deposit after deposit is what we're aiming for. So that's kind of the the next year which is a a very exciting time given everything we already talked about today and and what's happening with gold price. So >> is there anything we haven't yet touched on or anything you think it's important to emphasize um the potential shareholders of Kirkland Lake Discovery should be aware of? The only thing that I think of Jesse is the the given these markets and given the the timing that we're in um the torque that juniors provide is is exponentially higher than than gold or or you know GDX specifically if you're looking at miners you know the the juniors in the past have far far exceeded what what those guys are doing. And if we're in the early innings, which which most people in the industry are believing, that means we have a lot of runway for those juniors. You know, I I had somebody the other day be like, you I had done an interview and one of the comments was, you know, I wish you had brought this to me in June, July before it tripled. And I was like, well, doesn't mean we're done. You know, like there's still a lot of runway for for this this industry. And and we're on the verge of massive discoveries. So, it's not uh you know the torque that comes with those junior miners is is insane and that's kind of what we're looking at here. And you know, you couple that with a safe jurisdiction on the verge of discovery. This is a really interesting play right now. >> Great. Well, I'm going to put links in the description to Kirkland Lake Discovery's website, social media, and of course the YouTube channel so people can follow along with that treasure hunter series. That sounds really fascinating. Um Stephan, it's been a fantastic conversation. And thank you so much for coming on. >> No, I appreciate Jesse. >> Commodity Culture is a series on commodities and natural resources. If you would like to see more, be sure to subscribe and hit the bell notification so you're always up tod date with the latest episodes.