Precious Metals Surge: Gold and silver are trading at multi-year highs, driven by a combination of factors including a strong dollar and geopolitical tensions.
Federal Reserve Actions: Recent Fed rate cuts have been described as underwhelming, with limited impact expected on the market, highlighting the Fed's cautious approach amidst political pressures.
Currency Dynamics: The strength of the US dollar is seen as unsustainable, with expectations that it will decline to achieve parity with other major currencies, impacting global trade dynamics.
US Manufacturing Revival: There is a strategic push for the US to re-industrialize using AI and automation, aiming to regain its position as a global manufacturing leader.
China's Economic Influence: China's growing economic power is highlighted by its significant investments in foreign assets and its strategic positioning in global trade.
Investment Opportunities: Copper is identified as a key investment opportunity due to anticipated demand from AI and electrification, with major mining companies consolidating to capitalize on this trend.
Technological Advancements: The shift towards AI and robotics is expected to transform industries, reducing reliance on human labor and increasing productivity.
Long-term Strategic Thinking: Emphasis is placed on the need for long-term strategic planning in economic policy and investment, contrasting with short-term tactical approaches.
Transcript
The precious metals, no no stopping. Gold is trading over $3,700. Silver broke out over $43 as well. Trading all at near multi-year highs. Gold at all-time highs as well. But what is fueling that rally? We've had the Fed meeting last week, which I don't know, in summary maybe was a bit of a nothing burger because yes, we got the expected rate cut. Uh but also POW put a bit of a damper on rate cut expectations. So we'll have to see what that really means. Um, in the meantime, we don't get a lot of data coming out in the next few weeks. Uh, of course, we get some Fed speech as Stephen Marin is speaking today, Jerome Paul tomorrow, but personally, I'm not expecting too much. Maybe some more insights on how the Fed actually came to its rate cut decision and why it really didn't push for a jumbo cut. But that's all we can expect. And uh, I've invited Clint Chambers onto the show today to help me dissect what what is moving precious metals markets as much as they are. Like, as much as I'm happy about a $3,700 gold price, I'm starting to get scared. What is happening in the background? and we'll we'll discuss this together. Before I switch over to my guest, hit that like and subscribe button. Helps us out tremendously and we much much appreciate it. Oh, and before I forget, Clement is also joining us at Deutsche Goes. He'll be a uh panelist with us and I'm already regretting that we only giving you and Christian Vatian 30 minutes because I think the panel with you and Christian should take about two hours to really get to the root of things. You two will be amazing together. I'm really really looking forward that to that already, Clen. And uh thanks very much for joining us. >> As long as that's not next week. >> No, not not like but it's coming up close. It's what is it today? September 22nd. We're doing this on November 14th or 15th. I don't have the exact >> November. >> Yeah. Yeah. So we we get we get one more Fed cut that we can dissect there on stage as well and uh dissect the precious metal prices though. Um but let's start let's start at the top. We had the Fed rate cut last week. Maybe what was your first uh impression when you saw it? like what was your reaction to it? >> Oh, what a surprise. What a surprise. Oh, so surprised. And I think the market was saying the same thing, you know. Yeah. And I mean, you know, you've got the Donald jumping up and down on J Pal and saying, "Cut interest rates. Cut interest rates. Oh, by the way, we're thinking of, you know, suing you for spending too much on a building. Cut interest rates. Fire that person on the panel. Get somebody else in there that agrees with me. Cut interest rate. Cut interest rates." And you got power going, "No, no, no. We're independent." You know, that's a long word. It means independent. We're not going to cut it now because you've just done inflationary things, Mr. Trump. Oh, sorry, President Trump. We're not going to cut that. Oh, all right then. Have a little one. So, I mean, you know, nothing, Burger. I think you you summed it up. And um the the real big thing is go get yourself a long-term chart of the dollar and go have a look at it in terms of the yen and the pound and the euro and you'll see it's really strong and then go and have a look at GDP per head of the average American and the average Japanese and the average British and the average European which actually if you drive around in a Tesla in all these countries you'll notice how similar they are in terms of how they look, how they trade, how people are, how much they've got, how much they haven't got. And yet the GDP is almost double in America. Well, that's because the dollar's too high and the dollar's coming down because you can't fix your trade deficit. You can't have a re-industrialized America if the dollar's too strong. And the dollar's too strong because their business has been printing dollars. That's been the the main business of America for the last 20 years. and they got to flip it around to their main business being making things, you know, like Germany used to do. And um to do that, you need to have a dollar that's in line with other currencies like the yen, like the euro, like the pound. That means the dollar's coming down, which means if you've got all your money, all your assets in dollars, you've got to get out of dollars and into some other currencies, haven't you? And that's really what's going on. And well, you know, why not just stick it in gold? Oh, there goes gold. Whoosh. There goes silver. Whoosh. There goes foreign market and stocks. Whoosh. Because you don't want to be in dollars when dollars are going to come down. So that's one of the reasons why the precious metals are so strong. And the other reason is gold is for war. And you know, they're picking fights at least, you know, rattling sabers all over the place now. And if you're a government, you have to stack gold because gold is the currency of conflict. >> It is. It is. cuz it's it's heavy to move, but uh you know, >> well, that's why that's why it's good to move because you can get a lot of value in a small space. So, when you want to pack money into a submarine to go pay for some tanks or steel or tungsten, you want it to be heavy, don't you? Which is why you don't do it in silver. >> You want it dense. Absolutely. Yeah. I I had the pleasure of going to a depository about two weeks ago, and it's just just astonishing to to see what's in those vaults, and just you get gold fever just walking through there. It's It's very dangerous. >> Yeah. Well, gold fever is a real thing. And the reason gold fever is a thing is that it was an evolutionary object for ever since the first caveman pulled it out of a river and went, "Wow, what's this stuff?" Ever since then, the caveman with the gold gets the cave girls with the gold and it selects for gold, doesn't it? Evolutionary um selection is based around gold. And even today, old chubby men like myself with a bit of gold on their wrist can attract certain attention because of their gold. So even today, it's evolutionary metal. >> Well, one would one could say the term gold digger, you know, sort of has a >> there you go. >> There there's meaning to it, right? >> It wasn't me. I didn't say it. >> But uh yeah, no, it uh you know, there there's truth to it. Absolutely. Um just coming back to the Fed real quick. Do do you expect any any like surprises moving forward? The market seems to be prizing in two or more rate cuts. What what are your expectations? >> No surprises at all. Although I don't think in the mainstream people realize just how far the dollar will come down to get back to a proper par to the euro and to the yen. I mean you know it was 100 uh yen to the dollar not that long ago. It's 150 now. Now if the dollar came back to say 110 to the n then you would have a GDP parity that look more normal perhead a GDP per head and that's what's going to happen because you know Trump wants to re well it's not just Trump it's the whole American state deep state if you want to put it that way wants to get America back as the workshop of the world because if you look at history the workshop of the world is the country that controls that is the number one power. And right now the workshop of the world is not America, is it? It's China. And you know the workshop of Europe is Germany or certainly was up until they cut off all the energy. And the leading power in Europe is and remains Germany because it's it's still the workshop of Europe. So if you're the workshop of the world, you are the leading power of the world. And the workshop of the world is not America. Now, you could say, well, they have all the Amazons, they have all the Nvidias, they have all the Googles, they have all the Facebooks, but they're real fragile because you can just go firewall and they're gone as far as anything outside of America's concerned. So, it's not like being the only people that produce ships or the only people that produce chips or the only people that produce light bulbs. By the way, I don't know if America can does or can produce light bulbs anymore, but certainly 10 years ago, there wasn't one light bulb factory in America. Well, that's a fragile place to be if your opponent makes all the light bulbs. The light's going to go out in your country if you get, you know, in a conflict with them, aren't you? So, you have to bring that back home. And you've seen that with Intel last week. And you're seeing that with Rare Earth and Mountain Pass a few weeks ago. You're seeing it with ship tax. You know, if you unload your your big uh container uh uh ship in an American pool and that ship was made in China, they will bill you $7 million just to unload. And the point of that is, well, you better have a container ship that's built in America and you won't have that tax. So, that's what's going on. That's the big thing and that's will be drive well one of the two things that is going to be driving everything the global conflict between China and America and of course AI. >> Yeah, that brings me actually to a very recent topic. It's the H-1B visa and uh if you want to be the workshop of the world, you need workers and uh the US imported a lot of skilled workers. So I'm curious what what what is your take on that whole discussion and are they >> you don't need workers you need machines. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's about machines and it's about robots and about mechanization and about highly skilled people that you make yourself not that you bring in. I mean actually if you think about it is and and Britain used to do this and probably still does. Oh yes there's all these doctors in the third world. Let's bring them here. Well you what are you doing? and you're you're strip mining developing countries of the highly skilled people. That's, you know, that's the opposite of foreign aid, isn't it? That's like taking all the most valuable people and kidnapping them. I mean, that's awful thing. Awful awful thing. So, you know, I I've I've never been a fan of that idea that you should take all these developing nations and strip them of their skilled people and bring them to your country cuz that's a good thing. Well, it's not really, is it? It's it's it's really really unethical when you think about it. But know what is it going to there's not enough workers. Let's have more people then. Oh, let's have more more people. Let's have more more more more people. Let's have more. When does it end? When when the earth's a cinder, a smoldering boulder with people stacked on people. No, that's not the answer. Never has been the answer. Population isn't the answer. Science and mechanization is the answer. And there's a lot of that coming. >> Yeah. No. It's like what I was hinting at as well, like the US is trying to be an AI superpower, but it's not letting engineers or it's it's making it way more difficult for engineers that are helping this AI revolution sort of take place in the US uh enter the country. And I'm not trying to >> training up a load of people from abroad to go back home and compete against you. That's one thing that you're doing. Another thing is is you're cutting your own people's legs off, aren't you? Oh, we don't need to train you up. Oh, we don't need to have good universities. No, we don't need to have a good educational system. No, you could all be illiterate. No, no, no. We don't need you. We're just bringing highly trained, highly educated people from around the world to our country. Yes, that will work. Well, it will work in the short term, but in the long term, you end up with a ignorant populace and you're relying on on highly educated people from elsewhere that one day you're not going to be able to bring in, are you? Because they're going to say, "No, we don't want to come there. We'll stay at home." And you I mean there's a fairly large amount of that going on in India now already. Yeah. They go and how many French people or German people will you meet? They go I don't want to go work in America. I want to stay back in Germany or in France. Oh America. No. Ah. Oh no. I tried it. Oh no. You get that already. Well, what happens when all all the people in India start to decide that India is a better place? Yeah. I mean it's it's short termism, right? this world. I mean, back in the day, all right, 100 years ago, you're going to live till you're 49. You're going to live lose four out of five of your children before their age of five. Yeah, you got to be tactical. You got to make sure where your next meal is coming from or you're going to starve, right? That's the past. The future's about strategy, but long-term. Now, you live to 85. Now, all your children survive. Now it's all about, you know, looking to the future, building assets, building equity, building skills. You don't leave school at 14 and go to work. You leave school at 28 and you go to work because you're making that long-term strategic investment. Well, you got to stop this tactical short-term thinking. You got to go long-term. Why is China where it is today? Well, because it's been strategically building what it's got today over the last generation or even two. I mean, when I started out in business, the average uh salary of a Chinese worker was $200 a year. It's now $18,000. So, that's what 51 18 that's 100 times roughly. Well, imagine if the American salary had gone up 100fold. Hasn't, has it? >> I don't think it has. I don't think it has. Last I checked. So, no, it's it's an interesting topic. I appreciate uh you you know you your your your clarity on on that because it's it's highly discussed here of course as well. I was walking around the streets here in Vancouver and all I heard no not all I heard but I picked it up like just one there was a group of I think it was a group of women walking past me and all I picked up the the term H1B. So it's definitely being discussed here on the streets of Vancouver as well. >> Well Vancouver is an interesting example. Half of Vancouver's real estate is owned by Chinese. Why is that? because the Chinese are rich and why can they buy Canadian property? Because Canadians aren't that rich anymore. Right? So, you've had a shift. All the best property belongs by to foreign people who have been strategically operating while everybody in in the West has been tactically operating and building all these castles in the air of of of programs which are highly expensive and not very productive. While they've been knocking themselves out in China, they got all the money now. In fact, it's interesting. In the UK, they said, "Oh, all these foreign people that aren't paying taxes, we're going to make them pay taxes." So, they all left. All the best property in London, the prices have collapsed because the best property in London have been bought up by foreign people because they've got all the money. And the opposite of that is we ain't got the money anymore. We just think we have. We think we're rich, but we're not. they're rich and we're not anymore. You know, haven't caught up to the realities. They've got the industry, they've got the manufacturing, they work hard, they don't take big holidays, they don't have a massive social um uh safety net. And they don't have cover themselves in red tape. Well, not all of them anyway. And funny enough, they're rich and funny enough, we aren't anymore. They got more money than us. What's going on? I don't understand. Why? How could that be? Yeah, good, very good points actually. And something like I was looking at housing or at house prices here the other day in in Vancouver and it's tough to find something below 2 million Canadian dollars. No, >> that's no money at all. Sorry, Kai. That's that's not money. That's that's not a lot of money. Not if you're a Chinese oligarch. It's only a lot of money if if you're a hardworking German working person. Yeah. If you're a proper international rich business person, that's peanuts. Yeah. But you you don't realize many years ago people said, "Oh, all these emerging um com countries, they're growing so fast." And I go, "Well, that's not really a problem. The problem is we're growing so slowly." And he said, "Well, why is that a problem?" Said, "Well, when they catch up with us, they'll blow past us, won't they? And they'll keep going and we'll be sat there going plumpy plumpy plumpy plump and we won't even realize we won't even realize we've lost >> and they still be accelerating and we'll still be going plaudy pla. So 10 years later they'll be so far in the future it'll be like we were the um Hawaiian natives when um the British showed up or then following that the Americans. >> Yeah. Like we're too entangled in our own problems out here without realizing that we're being overtaken left and right here. >> Have been overtaken. >> Yeah. >> Did you know China has twice as much money in terms of dollars in circulation as the American dollar? >> Twice as much. Yeah. >> Which means, okay, the average Chinese person, if you took all the Chinese money and and spread it around evenly, the average Chinese person has half the money. But there's four times as many of them. >> Yeah. Now, >> you got twice the economic um people and they've already got half as much money as you, even though they only had $200 a year when I was, you know, 1984. They're now, you know, so they have more money now. They could be the reserve currency now if they wanted to be. But funny enough, they don't want to be. Oh, I wonder why that is. because they want to ship their goods from manufacturing to you and take your confetti, take your confetti and go back and buy your assets, buy your houses, buy your land, buy your forestry, buy your ports, buy your bridges. Yeah. So, while you're expecting exporting confetti, they're coming back with it and then buying your real assets, your hard assets up. And guess who's buying the gold? Guess why gold is $3,700? Guess who's the big buyer of that with your confetti? Yeah, Asian central banks, most mo most of them at least. And uh maybe coming back to China, like we we went on a tangent here a little bit, but I want to come back because u the US and China is like they're in the middle of tariff negotiations. We we'll see what the outcome is, but I'm curious. Uh China now said like, well, we're not allowing you to import or to export any more Nvidia chips to us. Meaning like we're telling our foreign do or sorry, our domestic producers not to buy Nvidia chips anymore. It used to be the other way around. Now China's turned the turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turned it it around on the US like well we don't want to buy from you anyway anymore >> they're probably worried about there being back doors in the chips >> like we have the same worries right >> oh we I mean there's a whole load of Chinese equipment that's been banned in the west because they're afraid of back doors but there's actually thank goodness there's some good news okay and this is very technical but it's much harder for China to do AI than for America or for that matter Britain because the the language the British language is much more compressed already than the Chinese language. So for AI to operate on the Chinese language is much more intensive energetically and compute on a compute basis than the English language. And and if you want to um you know look into your Shann Shannon entropy you'll see what I mean. So that actually gives um America and Britain and anyone else that wants to speak English I suppose India to an extent an advantage over China because China is going to have to do AI in Chinese and we'll be doing AI in English which is a more compute compatible language structure because there's only 26 characters blah blah blah rather than the 2400 characters of Chinese and the and the actual entropy of the language um in Chinese is much higher which makes it more intensive for the computers to do AI in it and that actually puts China at a big disadvantage. So if you see them suddenly saying we should be doing this in English, be worried. Be very worried. >> Now very good point. It's interesting. Yeah. Because as you said, language models are complicated and complex. >> Language models are language models. And if your language is highly entropic as opposed to lower entropy like like English, um you're going to have a hard time. And you heard that first here. You won't find that anywhere else in the literature, but that's kind of my gig is is things like um theoretical mathematics. Yeah. No, it's it's Yeah, I haven't read that anywhere else, which is point. >> I just made it up, but it's true. >> Yeah, it is true. >> Yeah. No, abs. Absolutely. No, it makes a lot of sense. Um, zooming back out again, like there's a few more topics of course I want to touch with you on and it's really like what you mentioned or follow up what you mentioned earlier is the US is trying to become a manufacturing hub again. Like what are the odds club? Like if you were to assign a percentage, do they actually have a chance? >> Well, sure. because we're in this disjuncture now where it's not just getting a load of of you know overweight flidians to to make Nike shoes as the as the meme video goes. It's about robots and AI and you know that's going to be interesting because ultimately what you're gonna Okay, let's wind the clock back. Let's wind the clock back to 1690. Okay. And there you are out there with your oxen. And by the way, you didn't use horses. You used cows. And you were plowing your field with cows. Okay? And a and a stick with a pointy bit on it. And everybody lived on the land. And that's what they did. 95% of the people lived on the land, plowed the field, made food and the extra food that they made, which wasn't that much, they would send to the cities and the cities would buy it and food was expensive and people didn't live very long and they starved and and and children died. Okay, that was that was before the industrial revolution. Industrial revolution came along within a 100 years everybody left the fields. Well, maybe 150 years. Now, there's only two and a half percent of people that are on the fields doing that job. And they're doing it they they they go into these huge metal robotic things and they go and like like like transformers and they plow the land. No, actually it's called a tractor, but they use machines to make food. And everybody lives in the city and does the city things, right? And that was because they invented artificial muscle. Well, now they've invented artificial brain. And that's going to do the same thing to our society that artificial muscle muscle did back then. It's going to change everything and it's going to make everything incredibly bigger and and the numbers going to add lots of zeros and people are probably going to live to 95 and and you know and things are going to be wonderful and but everything will change and they won't be doing in 150 years what they're doing now. might be completely different and that wave is going to whatever people do now that it's repetitive and that a robot can do will be done and it's only things that robots can't do which is you know there's lots of things actually when you come down to it it's only things that robots can't do that people will do and and that's going to be a completely different economy it's going to be have much bigger numbers because if you look at all the expensive stuff out there take cars the cars that everybody lost after. It cost a quart of a million pounds. They're bright orange. They make a racket and you can't drive them out of first gear without using your license. Yeah. Or a handbag made out of $6 a leather that cost $7,000 because it's got some famous actor's name attached to it. And and that's where we're going. We're going into a land of increasing value ad. But you know, it will be robots that will be selling those handbags and it won't be people. So now that is that we're in that pivot point. So America can re-industrialize with robots and AI and and vast amounts of automation and can catch back up again. Yeah. Because we're we're operating at different level. It's not the old level of hey you got a billion people. Yay. Build factories wherever it does that all day long. That that will be irrelevant. Maybe controversial follow-up question, but it seems to be the next logical step, and that's universal basic income. Clint, what what are your thoughts on that? And do you think we'll be able see that? >> It already exists. It's already there. It's just they don't give you the money. They just spend it. I mean, it always when people have these crazy words and you think about it, it's like when you reinvent a supermarket because you think about, wouldn't it be good if the shop was really, really big and it had all section of everything and it's all done in rows and oh, I've just reinvented Walmart. Universal basic income is the idea that the government gives you money as a as a baseline for for you to exist on, right? Well, that's what government does. The government in Germany, Kai, spends more money on you than you earn. And what's the difference between universal basic income and that? Now maybe you're a higher earner but the average person in the UK three or four years ago now I haven't bothered looking it up since the average person in the UK was earning 27,000 and the government was spending £35,000 per family. So the average family was earning 30 grand say and the and the government was spending £35,000 on that family out of its tax revenue. So that's the same as universal basic in income apart from they don't give you the 35 grand to spend it on what you want to spend it on. Oh funny that they say oh you should spend it on this and you should spend it on that so we're going to do that for you. Oh you need roads we're going to spend that for you. Oh you need health service you're going to spend that for you. Oh you need to count trees because oh I mean you should we're going to spend money for you on that. Yeah. Oh save the nes and the frogs. Yeah we're gonna spend money we need windmill subsidies. Yeah you need to spend money on that. we do it for you. They don't give you the money. They just spend it for you. But they're already spending more money than the average family earns on the average family. So, it's already there. They just don't give you the money to spend it on what you want to spend it on. Funny that. >> No, good, good, good point. Right. And food stamps and all that stuff as well, like they indirectly. >> It's not some, it's more than you than the average family already earns. And that doesn't include the people that aren't earning. >> Yeah. So even families that don't earn a penny, they still spend more money on them than the average working family earns. But they don't give it to you. Why would they give it to you? That would be freedom. That would be trusting you. That would be taking away their power to tell you what you should be doing. They're never going to do that. They might spend twice what you might earn, but they're never going to give it to you. and hence CBDC's and that's the topic for part two of our conversation CLM which we'll have in Frankfurt. No. Um but that would be seriously like the next topic to follow up on this is of course CBDC's but we're not going to go there. We'll save that one for another time CLM because >> well Kai shall we do some some talk about some investment ideas before we go rather than all this bloody politics which drives me nuts. um you know or anything that's a physical metal particularly metals is going to go ballistic over the next until further notice right because AI is going to consume all that yeah even silver I mean silver obviously is is is retail gold and that's been driven by that but copper I I I keep coming back to copper because it's one of those things that kind of does my head in five years ago There was everyone was saying there's not going to be enough copper because of all the electrification. There's just not enough copper. No, no, no, not enough copper. That was before AI. And AI would consume double that, triple that. Who knows how much multiple of that more. And there's still no more copper. Yeah. At some point, copper is going to go absolutely ape. Now, you can say, "Well, you're you're just plain wrong." Well, how about this as substantiation? Anglo-American, one of the biggest mining companies in the world, established forever, has just agreed effectively to merge with the Canadian copper company. It's a bazillion, trillion, zillion, I 40 billion. It's a massive value um merger. It's one of the biggest mergers of all time to create the biggest copper producer the world's ever seen. So they've gone, "Oh, copper. That's h we need forget everything else. We just need to do copper. How do we do that?" Oh, there's gigantic copper people over there, and they obviously know that's coming, too. So, let's let's merge with them. And they agree they're going to merge with us. So, these two people that know absolutely totally inside when it comes to knowing about what's going to come with copper have decided to get together to make the number one copper company. So it's just like, you know, it's like an insider trade being given to you on a plate. Yeah. So copper is not today because the market hasn't woken up to it. It's like I remember talking to you about platinum when it was and played in when it was 900 only a few months ago and now it's 1300. >> Yeah, it's one of them. And I go, duh, what what am I missing here? There's not enough copper. big miners emerging to create massive copper companies because they can see this juggernaut coming. Yeah. And there was not enough of it to go around. It was a juggernaut coming before AI and now AI is here. I some like 50 million miles of cable that they needed before AI or some you you need to go look it up because it's all out there on the interwebs and it's just it stares me in the face and I go >> no you're you're right. The gold miners are moving towards copper as well. Beric building Rico uh rumors are that Igno might be an interloper on that merger you proposed um uh as well which is interesting. So we we'll see how it plays out. Clen >> well the thing is you can buy these bloody companies. They're there and and it's very another interesting about copper is okay I want to buy I want to buy some copper. There's hardly anything out there. There's anti phanagusta and there's free porton but it's not like gold miners when you've got a choice of 50 or 100 of them. It's like the big cob. It's like, you know, you're you're it's the opposite of being spoiled for choice. You have hardly any. So, that's another one that screams to you that that suddenly is a coming, but you know, it's a coming and you know, I I can predict the past pretty pretty closely, right? But calling the future is is what your your viewers are here for. Copper is the future. Stake it out. Start staking out copper now. Start following it closely because at some point will be the point where you'll want to jump in because it's going to be a massive juggernaut. And it's coming. It's not here yet, but it's coming. >> Yeah. And and gold or platinum palladium are the, you know, proof of concept right there. We we told you all about it and uh now it's here. And uh like we I I feel a little little bit like a dog who's been chasing a car and barking at the car and now the car is stopped and I don't I don't really necessarily know what to do with it now. But right no CL tremendously appreciate your time. It's always great to catch up. Um really looking forward to hosting you in Frankfurt at the Doig Messi here in what is it now six weeks or so. It's a time it's it's coming up quickly. Really looking forward to seeing you in Frankfurt. Clem. Where where can we send our audience to follow you more of your work? >> Well I've I've I've actually people keep asking me this. They keep going. But so I've I've done something about it. I've got a channel on YouTube called Clemch Chambers Alpha and I just rant. Every couple of days I go on and I rant like I've been ranting now and it's great raw material. I might be right, I might be wrong, but it will stimulate your neurons and that's really what you need. So, Clemch Chambers Alpha and I'm I'm Clem I'm CLMC Chambers on Twitter if you want to see my occasional statements and also keep up with the videos when I post them. >> Fantastic. Clen, really appreciate you joining us. It's always great to catch up and everybody else, thank you so much for tuning in. Hope you enjoyed this conversation with Clen Chambers. I tremendously have. Can't wait to host him in Frankfurt in in about six weeks time. Go check out doggo.com Germanoldshow.com. Uh register for the event. It's free for investors to attend. May make use of that and I can't wait to host the panel with him and Christian Batia. I'm really looking forward to that. It should be two hours long. We only have 30 minutes. I already regret that. We are time constrained, but uh it'll be a doozy. So, thanks so much for tuning in. Leave a comment down below. What do you think is happening? And how are you positioned? What do you think about copper? It's coming back that narrative. And I really like to see it because we we need copper. It's uh it's the obvious one out there. So, thanks so much for tuning in. We'll be back with lots more. Take care out there. [Music]
Gold Fever Is in Our DNA | Clem Chambers
Summary
Transcript
The precious metals, no no stopping. Gold is trading over $3,700. Silver broke out over $43 as well. Trading all at near multi-year highs. Gold at all-time highs as well. But what is fueling that rally? We've had the Fed meeting last week, which I don't know, in summary maybe was a bit of a nothing burger because yes, we got the expected rate cut. Uh but also POW put a bit of a damper on rate cut expectations. So we'll have to see what that really means. Um, in the meantime, we don't get a lot of data coming out in the next few weeks. Uh, of course, we get some Fed speech as Stephen Marin is speaking today, Jerome Paul tomorrow, but personally, I'm not expecting too much. Maybe some more insights on how the Fed actually came to its rate cut decision and why it really didn't push for a jumbo cut. But that's all we can expect. And uh, I've invited Clint Chambers onto the show today to help me dissect what what is moving precious metals markets as much as they are. Like, as much as I'm happy about a $3,700 gold price, I'm starting to get scared. What is happening in the background? and we'll we'll discuss this together. Before I switch over to my guest, hit that like and subscribe button. Helps us out tremendously and we much much appreciate it. Oh, and before I forget, Clement is also joining us at Deutsche Goes. He'll be a uh panelist with us and I'm already regretting that we only giving you and Christian Vatian 30 minutes because I think the panel with you and Christian should take about two hours to really get to the root of things. You two will be amazing together. I'm really really looking forward that to that already, Clen. And uh thanks very much for joining us. >> As long as that's not next week. >> No, not not like but it's coming up close. It's what is it today? September 22nd. We're doing this on November 14th or 15th. I don't have the exact >> November. >> Yeah. Yeah. So we we get we get one more Fed cut that we can dissect there on stage as well and uh dissect the precious metal prices though. Um but let's start let's start at the top. We had the Fed rate cut last week. Maybe what was your first uh impression when you saw it? like what was your reaction to it? >> Oh, what a surprise. What a surprise. Oh, so surprised. And I think the market was saying the same thing, you know. Yeah. And I mean, you know, you've got the Donald jumping up and down on J Pal and saying, "Cut interest rates. Cut interest rates. Oh, by the way, we're thinking of, you know, suing you for spending too much on a building. Cut interest rates. Fire that person on the panel. Get somebody else in there that agrees with me. Cut interest rate. Cut interest rates." And you got power going, "No, no, no. We're independent." You know, that's a long word. It means independent. We're not going to cut it now because you've just done inflationary things, Mr. Trump. Oh, sorry, President Trump. We're not going to cut that. Oh, all right then. Have a little one. So, I mean, you know, nothing, Burger. I think you you summed it up. And um the the real big thing is go get yourself a long-term chart of the dollar and go have a look at it in terms of the yen and the pound and the euro and you'll see it's really strong and then go and have a look at GDP per head of the average American and the average Japanese and the average British and the average European which actually if you drive around in a Tesla in all these countries you'll notice how similar they are in terms of how they look, how they trade, how people are, how much they've got, how much they haven't got. And yet the GDP is almost double in America. Well, that's because the dollar's too high and the dollar's coming down because you can't fix your trade deficit. You can't have a re-industrialized America if the dollar's too strong. And the dollar's too strong because their business has been printing dollars. That's been the the main business of America for the last 20 years. and they got to flip it around to their main business being making things, you know, like Germany used to do. And um to do that, you need to have a dollar that's in line with other currencies like the yen, like the euro, like the pound. That means the dollar's coming down, which means if you've got all your money, all your assets in dollars, you've got to get out of dollars and into some other currencies, haven't you? And that's really what's going on. And well, you know, why not just stick it in gold? Oh, there goes gold. Whoosh. There goes silver. Whoosh. There goes foreign market and stocks. Whoosh. Because you don't want to be in dollars when dollars are going to come down. So that's one of the reasons why the precious metals are so strong. And the other reason is gold is for war. And you know, they're picking fights at least, you know, rattling sabers all over the place now. And if you're a government, you have to stack gold because gold is the currency of conflict. >> It is. It is. cuz it's it's heavy to move, but uh you know, >> well, that's why that's why it's good to move because you can get a lot of value in a small space. So, when you want to pack money into a submarine to go pay for some tanks or steel or tungsten, you want it to be heavy, don't you? Which is why you don't do it in silver. >> You want it dense. Absolutely. Yeah. I I had the pleasure of going to a depository about two weeks ago, and it's just just astonishing to to see what's in those vaults, and just you get gold fever just walking through there. It's It's very dangerous. >> Yeah. Well, gold fever is a real thing. And the reason gold fever is a thing is that it was an evolutionary object for ever since the first caveman pulled it out of a river and went, "Wow, what's this stuff?" Ever since then, the caveman with the gold gets the cave girls with the gold and it selects for gold, doesn't it? Evolutionary um selection is based around gold. And even today, old chubby men like myself with a bit of gold on their wrist can attract certain attention because of their gold. So even today, it's evolutionary metal. >> Well, one would one could say the term gold digger, you know, sort of has a >> there you go. >> There there's meaning to it, right? >> It wasn't me. I didn't say it. >> But uh yeah, no, it uh you know, there there's truth to it. Absolutely. Um just coming back to the Fed real quick. Do do you expect any any like surprises moving forward? The market seems to be prizing in two or more rate cuts. What what are your expectations? >> No surprises at all. Although I don't think in the mainstream people realize just how far the dollar will come down to get back to a proper par to the euro and to the yen. I mean you know it was 100 uh yen to the dollar not that long ago. It's 150 now. Now if the dollar came back to say 110 to the n then you would have a GDP parity that look more normal perhead a GDP per head and that's what's going to happen because you know Trump wants to re well it's not just Trump it's the whole American state deep state if you want to put it that way wants to get America back as the workshop of the world because if you look at history the workshop of the world is the country that controls that is the number one power. And right now the workshop of the world is not America, is it? It's China. And you know the workshop of Europe is Germany or certainly was up until they cut off all the energy. And the leading power in Europe is and remains Germany because it's it's still the workshop of Europe. So if you're the workshop of the world, you are the leading power of the world. And the workshop of the world is not America. Now, you could say, well, they have all the Amazons, they have all the Nvidias, they have all the Googles, they have all the Facebooks, but they're real fragile because you can just go firewall and they're gone as far as anything outside of America's concerned. So, it's not like being the only people that produce ships or the only people that produce chips or the only people that produce light bulbs. By the way, I don't know if America can does or can produce light bulbs anymore, but certainly 10 years ago, there wasn't one light bulb factory in America. Well, that's a fragile place to be if your opponent makes all the light bulbs. The light's going to go out in your country if you get, you know, in a conflict with them, aren't you? So, you have to bring that back home. And you've seen that with Intel last week. And you're seeing that with Rare Earth and Mountain Pass a few weeks ago. You're seeing it with ship tax. You know, if you unload your your big uh container uh uh ship in an American pool and that ship was made in China, they will bill you $7 million just to unload. And the point of that is, well, you better have a container ship that's built in America and you won't have that tax. So, that's what's going on. That's the big thing and that's will be drive well one of the two things that is going to be driving everything the global conflict between China and America and of course AI. >> Yeah, that brings me actually to a very recent topic. It's the H-1B visa and uh if you want to be the workshop of the world, you need workers and uh the US imported a lot of skilled workers. So I'm curious what what what is your take on that whole discussion and are they >> you don't need workers you need machines. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's about machines and it's about robots and about mechanization and about highly skilled people that you make yourself not that you bring in. I mean actually if you think about it is and and Britain used to do this and probably still does. Oh yes there's all these doctors in the third world. Let's bring them here. Well you what are you doing? and you're you're strip mining developing countries of the highly skilled people. That's, you know, that's the opposite of foreign aid, isn't it? That's like taking all the most valuable people and kidnapping them. I mean, that's awful thing. Awful awful thing. So, you know, I I've I've never been a fan of that idea that you should take all these developing nations and strip them of their skilled people and bring them to your country cuz that's a good thing. Well, it's not really, is it? It's it's it's really really unethical when you think about it. But know what is it going to there's not enough workers. Let's have more people then. Oh, let's have more more people. Let's have more more more more people. Let's have more. When does it end? When when the earth's a cinder, a smoldering boulder with people stacked on people. No, that's not the answer. Never has been the answer. Population isn't the answer. Science and mechanization is the answer. And there's a lot of that coming. >> Yeah. No. It's like what I was hinting at as well, like the US is trying to be an AI superpower, but it's not letting engineers or it's it's making it way more difficult for engineers that are helping this AI revolution sort of take place in the US uh enter the country. And I'm not trying to >> training up a load of people from abroad to go back home and compete against you. That's one thing that you're doing. Another thing is is you're cutting your own people's legs off, aren't you? Oh, we don't need to train you up. Oh, we don't need to have good universities. No, we don't need to have a good educational system. No, you could all be illiterate. No, no, no. We don't need you. We're just bringing highly trained, highly educated people from around the world to our country. Yes, that will work. Well, it will work in the short term, but in the long term, you end up with a ignorant populace and you're relying on on highly educated people from elsewhere that one day you're not going to be able to bring in, are you? Because they're going to say, "No, we don't want to come there. We'll stay at home." And you I mean there's a fairly large amount of that going on in India now already. Yeah. They go and how many French people or German people will you meet? They go I don't want to go work in America. I want to stay back in Germany or in France. Oh America. No. Ah. Oh no. I tried it. Oh no. You get that already. Well, what happens when all all the people in India start to decide that India is a better place? Yeah. I mean it's it's short termism, right? this world. I mean, back in the day, all right, 100 years ago, you're going to live till you're 49. You're going to live lose four out of five of your children before their age of five. Yeah, you got to be tactical. You got to make sure where your next meal is coming from or you're going to starve, right? That's the past. The future's about strategy, but long-term. Now, you live to 85. Now, all your children survive. Now it's all about, you know, looking to the future, building assets, building equity, building skills. You don't leave school at 14 and go to work. You leave school at 28 and you go to work because you're making that long-term strategic investment. Well, you got to stop this tactical short-term thinking. You got to go long-term. Why is China where it is today? Well, because it's been strategically building what it's got today over the last generation or even two. I mean, when I started out in business, the average uh salary of a Chinese worker was $200 a year. It's now $18,000. So, that's what 51 18 that's 100 times roughly. Well, imagine if the American salary had gone up 100fold. Hasn't, has it? >> I don't think it has. I don't think it has. Last I checked. So, no, it's it's an interesting topic. I appreciate uh you you know you your your your clarity on on that because it's it's highly discussed here of course as well. I was walking around the streets here in Vancouver and all I heard no not all I heard but I picked it up like just one there was a group of I think it was a group of women walking past me and all I picked up the the term H1B. So it's definitely being discussed here on the streets of Vancouver as well. >> Well Vancouver is an interesting example. Half of Vancouver's real estate is owned by Chinese. Why is that? because the Chinese are rich and why can they buy Canadian property? Because Canadians aren't that rich anymore. Right? So, you've had a shift. All the best property belongs by to foreign people who have been strategically operating while everybody in in the West has been tactically operating and building all these castles in the air of of of programs which are highly expensive and not very productive. While they've been knocking themselves out in China, they got all the money now. In fact, it's interesting. In the UK, they said, "Oh, all these foreign people that aren't paying taxes, we're going to make them pay taxes." So, they all left. All the best property in London, the prices have collapsed because the best property in London have been bought up by foreign people because they've got all the money. And the opposite of that is we ain't got the money anymore. We just think we have. We think we're rich, but we're not. they're rich and we're not anymore. You know, haven't caught up to the realities. They've got the industry, they've got the manufacturing, they work hard, they don't take big holidays, they don't have a massive social um uh safety net. And they don't have cover themselves in red tape. Well, not all of them anyway. And funny enough, they're rich and funny enough, we aren't anymore. They got more money than us. What's going on? I don't understand. Why? How could that be? Yeah, good, very good points actually. And something like I was looking at housing or at house prices here the other day in in Vancouver and it's tough to find something below 2 million Canadian dollars. No, >> that's no money at all. Sorry, Kai. That's that's not money. That's that's not a lot of money. Not if you're a Chinese oligarch. It's only a lot of money if if you're a hardworking German working person. Yeah. If you're a proper international rich business person, that's peanuts. Yeah. But you you don't realize many years ago people said, "Oh, all these emerging um com countries, they're growing so fast." And I go, "Well, that's not really a problem. The problem is we're growing so slowly." And he said, "Well, why is that a problem?" Said, "Well, when they catch up with us, they'll blow past us, won't they? And they'll keep going and we'll be sat there going plumpy plumpy plumpy plump and we won't even realize we won't even realize we've lost >> and they still be accelerating and we'll still be going plaudy pla. So 10 years later they'll be so far in the future it'll be like we were the um Hawaiian natives when um the British showed up or then following that the Americans. >> Yeah. Like we're too entangled in our own problems out here without realizing that we're being overtaken left and right here. >> Have been overtaken. >> Yeah. >> Did you know China has twice as much money in terms of dollars in circulation as the American dollar? >> Twice as much. Yeah. >> Which means, okay, the average Chinese person, if you took all the Chinese money and and spread it around evenly, the average Chinese person has half the money. But there's four times as many of them. >> Yeah. Now, >> you got twice the economic um people and they've already got half as much money as you, even though they only had $200 a year when I was, you know, 1984. They're now, you know, so they have more money now. They could be the reserve currency now if they wanted to be. But funny enough, they don't want to be. Oh, I wonder why that is. because they want to ship their goods from manufacturing to you and take your confetti, take your confetti and go back and buy your assets, buy your houses, buy your land, buy your forestry, buy your ports, buy your bridges. Yeah. So, while you're expecting exporting confetti, they're coming back with it and then buying your real assets, your hard assets up. And guess who's buying the gold? Guess why gold is $3,700? Guess who's the big buyer of that with your confetti? Yeah, Asian central banks, most mo most of them at least. And uh maybe coming back to China, like we we went on a tangent here a little bit, but I want to come back because u the US and China is like they're in the middle of tariff negotiations. We we'll see what the outcome is, but I'm curious. Uh China now said like, well, we're not allowing you to import or to export any more Nvidia chips to us. Meaning like we're telling our foreign do or sorry, our domestic producers not to buy Nvidia chips anymore. It used to be the other way around. Now China's turned the turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turned it it around on the US like well we don't want to buy from you anyway anymore >> they're probably worried about there being back doors in the chips >> like we have the same worries right >> oh we I mean there's a whole load of Chinese equipment that's been banned in the west because they're afraid of back doors but there's actually thank goodness there's some good news okay and this is very technical but it's much harder for China to do AI than for America or for that matter Britain because the the language the British language is much more compressed already than the Chinese language. So for AI to operate on the Chinese language is much more intensive energetically and compute on a compute basis than the English language. And and if you want to um you know look into your Shann Shannon entropy you'll see what I mean. So that actually gives um America and Britain and anyone else that wants to speak English I suppose India to an extent an advantage over China because China is going to have to do AI in Chinese and we'll be doing AI in English which is a more compute compatible language structure because there's only 26 characters blah blah blah rather than the 2400 characters of Chinese and the and the actual entropy of the language um in Chinese is much higher which makes it more intensive for the computers to do AI in it and that actually puts China at a big disadvantage. So if you see them suddenly saying we should be doing this in English, be worried. Be very worried. >> Now very good point. It's interesting. Yeah. Because as you said, language models are complicated and complex. >> Language models are language models. And if your language is highly entropic as opposed to lower entropy like like English, um you're going to have a hard time. And you heard that first here. You won't find that anywhere else in the literature, but that's kind of my gig is is things like um theoretical mathematics. Yeah. No, it's it's Yeah, I haven't read that anywhere else, which is point. >> I just made it up, but it's true. >> Yeah, it is true. >> Yeah. No, abs. Absolutely. No, it makes a lot of sense. Um, zooming back out again, like there's a few more topics of course I want to touch with you on and it's really like what you mentioned or follow up what you mentioned earlier is the US is trying to become a manufacturing hub again. Like what are the odds club? Like if you were to assign a percentage, do they actually have a chance? >> Well, sure. because we're in this disjuncture now where it's not just getting a load of of you know overweight flidians to to make Nike shoes as the as the meme video goes. It's about robots and AI and you know that's going to be interesting because ultimately what you're gonna Okay, let's wind the clock back. Let's wind the clock back to 1690. Okay. And there you are out there with your oxen. And by the way, you didn't use horses. You used cows. And you were plowing your field with cows. Okay? And a and a stick with a pointy bit on it. And everybody lived on the land. And that's what they did. 95% of the people lived on the land, plowed the field, made food and the extra food that they made, which wasn't that much, they would send to the cities and the cities would buy it and food was expensive and people didn't live very long and they starved and and and children died. Okay, that was that was before the industrial revolution. Industrial revolution came along within a 100 years everybody left the fields. Well, maybe 150 years. Now, there's only two and a half percent of people that are on the fields doing that job. And they're doing it they they they go into these huge metal robotic things and they go and like like like transformers and they plow the land. No, actually it's called a tractor, but they use machines to make food. And everybody lives in the city and does the city things, right? And that was because they invented artificial muscle. Well, now they've invented artificial brain. And that's going to do the same thing to our society that artificial muscle muscle did back then. It's going to change everything and it's going to make everything incredibly bigger and and the numbers going to add lots of zeros and people are probably going to live to 95 and and you know and things are going to be wonderful and but everything will change and they won't be doing in 150 years what they're doing now. might be completely different and that wave is going to whatever people do now that it's repetitive and that a robot can do will be done and it's only things that robots can't do which is you know there's lots of things actually when you come down to it it's only things that robots can't do that people will do and and that's going to be a completely different economy it's going to be have much bigger numbers because if you look at all the expensive stuff out there take cars the cars that everybody lost after. It cost a quart of a million pounds. They're bright orange. They make a racket and you can't drive them out of first gear without using your license. Yeah. Or a handbag made out of $6 a leather that cost $7,000 because it's got some famous actor's name attached to it. And and that's where we're going. We're going into a land of increasing value ad. But you know, it will be robots that will be selling those handbags and it won't be people. So now that is that we're in that pivot point. So America can re-industrialize with robots and AI and and vast amounts of automation and can catch back up again. Yeah. Because we're we're operating at different level. It's not the old level of hey you got a billion people. Yay. Build factories wherever it does that all day long. That that will be irrelevant. Maybe controversial follow-up question, but it seems to be the next logical step, and that's universal basic income. Clint, what what are your thoughts on that? And do you think we'll be able see that? >> It already exists. It's already there. It's just they don't give you the money. They just spend it. I mean, it always when people have these crazy words and you think about it, it's like when you reinvent a supermarket because you think about, wouldn't it be good if the shop was really, really big and it had all section of everything and it's all done in rows and oh, I've just reinvented Walmart. Universal basic income is the idea that the government gives you money as a as a baseline for for you to exist on, right? Well, that's what government does. The government in Germany, Kai, spends more money on you than you earn. And what's the difference between universal basic income and that? Now maybe you're a higher earner but the average person in the UK three or four years ago now I haven't bothered looking it up since the average person in the UK was earning 27,000 and the government was spending £35,000 per family. So the average family was earning 30 grand say and the and the government was spending £35,000 on that family out of its tax revenue. So that's the same as universal basic in income apart from they don't give you the 35 grand to spend it on what you want to spend it on. Oh funny that they say oh you should spend it on this and you should spend it on that so we're going to do that for you. Oh you need roads we're going to spend that for you. Oh you need health service you're going to spend that for you. Oh you need to count trees because oh I mean you should we're going to spend money for you on that. Yeah. Oh save the nes and the frogs. Yeah we're gonna spend money we need windmill subsidies. Yeah you need to spend money on that. we do it for you. They don't give you the money. They just spend it for you. But they're already spending more money than the average family earns on the average family. So, it's already there. They just don't give you the money to spend it on what you want to spend it on. Funny that. >> No, good, good, good point. Right. And food stamps and all that stuff as well, like they indirectly. >> It's not some, it's more than you than the average family already earns. And that doesn't include the people that aren't earning. >> Yeah. So even families that don't earn a penny, they still spend more money on them than the average working family earns. But they don't give it to you. Why would they give it to you? That would be freedom. That would be trusting you. That would be taking away their power to tell you what you should be doing. They're never going to do that. They might spend twice what you might earn, but they're never going to give it to you. and hence CBDC's and that's the topic for part two of our conversation CLM which we'll have in Frankfurt. No. Um but that would be seriously like the next topic to follow up on this is of course CBDC's but we're not going to go there. We'll save that one for another time CLM because >> well Kai shall we do some some talk about some investment ideas before we go rather than all this bloody politics which drives me nuts. um you know or anything that's a physical metal particularly metals is going to go ballistic over the next until further notice right because AI is going to consume all that yeah even silver I mean silver obviously is is is retail gold and that's been driven by that but copper I I I keep coming back to copper because it's one of those things that kind of does my head in five years ago There was everyone was saying there's not going to be enough copper because of all the electrification. There's just not enough copper. No, no, no, not enough copper. That was before AI. And AI would consume double that, triple that. Who knows how much multiple of that more. And there's still no more copper. Yeah. At some point, copper is going to go absolutely ape. Now, you can say, "Well, you're you're just plain wrong." Well, how about this as substantiation? Anglo-American, one of the biggest mining companies in the world, established forever, has just agreed effectively to merge with the Canadian copper company. It's a bazillion, trillion, zillion, I 40 billion. It's a massive value um merger. It's one of the biggest mergers of all time to create the biggest copper producer the world's ever seen. So they've gone, "Oh, copper. That's h we need forget everything else. We just need to do copper. How do we do that?" Oh, there's gigantic copper people over there, and they obviously know that's coming, too. So, let's let's merge with them. And they agree they're going to merge with us. So, these two people that know absolutely totally inside when it comes to knowing about what's going to come with copper have decided to get together to make the number one copper company. So it's just like, you know, it's like an insider trade being given to you on a plate. Yeah. So copper is not today because the market hasn't woken up to it. It's like I remember talking to you about platinum when it was and played in when it was 900 only a few months ago and now it's 1300. >> Yeah, it's one of them. And I go, duh, what what am I missing here? There's not enough copper. big miners emerging to create massive copper companies because they can see this juggernaut coming. Yeah. And there was not enough of it to go around. It was a juggernaut coming before AI and now AI is here. I some like 50 million miles of cable that they needed before AI or some you you need to go look it up because it's all out there on the interwebs and it's just it stares me in the face and I go >> no you're you're right. The gold miners are moving towards copper as well. Beric building Rico uh rumors are that Igno might be an interloper on that merger you proposed um uh as well which is interesting. So we we'll see how it plays out. Clen >> well the thing is you can buy these bloody companies. They're there and and it's very another interesting about copper is okay I want to buy I want to buy some copper. There's hardly anything out there. There's anti phanagusta and there's free porton but it's not like gold miners when you've got a choice of 50 or 100 of them. It's like the big cob. It's like, you know, you're you're it's the opposite of being spoiled for choice. You have hardly any. So, that's another one that screams to you that that suddenly is a coming, but you know, it's a coming and you know, I I can predict the past pretty pretty closely, right? But calling the future is is what your your viewers are here for. Copper is the future. Stake it out. Start staking out copper now. Start following it closely because at some point will be the point where you'll want to jump in because it's going to be a massive juggernaut. And it's coming. It's not here yet, but it's coming. >> Yeah. And and gold or platinum palladium are the, you know, proof of concept right there. We we told you all about it and uh now it's here. And uh like we I I feel a little little bit like a dog who's been chasing a car and barking at the car and now the car is stopped and I don't I don't really necessarily know what to do with it now. But right no CL tremendously appreciate your time. It's always great to catch up. Um really looking forward to hosting you in Frankfurt at the Doig Messi here in what is it now six weeks or so. It's a time it's it's coming up quickly. Really looking forward to seeing you in Frankfurt. Clem. Where where can we send our audience to follow you more of your work? >> Well I've I've I've actually people keep asking me this. They keep going. But so I've I've done something about it. I've got a channel on YouTube called Clemch Chambers Alpha and I just rant. Every couple of days I go on and I rant like I've been ranting now and it's great raw material. I might be right, I might be wrong, but it will stimulate your neurons and that's really what you need. So, Clemch Chambers Alpha and I'm I'm Clem I'm CLMC Chambers on Twitter if you want to see my occasional statements and also keep up with the videos when I post them. >> Fantastic. Clen, really appreciate you joining us. It's always great to catch up and everybody else, thank you so much for tuning in. Hope you enjoyed this conversation with Clen Chambers. I tremendously have. Can't wait to host him in Frankfurt in in about six weeks time. Go check out doggo.com Germanoldshow.com. Uh register for the event. It's free for investors to attend. May make use of that and I can't wait to host the panel with him and Christian Batia. I'm really looking forward to that. It should be two hours long. We only have 30 minutes. I already regret that. We are time constrained, but uh it'll be a doozy. So, thanks so much for tuning in. Leave a comment down below. What do you think is happening? And how are you positioned? What do you think about copper? It's coming back that narrative. And I really like to see it because we we need copper. It's uh it's the obvious one out there. So, thanks so much for tuning in. We'll be back with lots more. Take care out there. [Music]