GOLD & SILVER: The Sky Is The Limit | Andy Schectman
Summary
Precious Metals Surge: Gold has reached a new all-time high, and silver is rallying, driven by strong momentum and significant market interest.
Market Dynamics: The retail market for precious metals has shifted from slow to overwhelming demand, influenced by substantial imports into the ComX and central bank buying.
Investment Strategies: Prominent financial figures suggest increasing gold allocations in portfolios, with recommendations ranging from 20% to 25% gold, indicating a shift in traditional stock-bond allocations.
Global Economic Factors: The US economy faces challenges with a poor jobs report and potential government shutdown, contributing to increased interest in gold as a safe haven.
Institutional Moves: Major institutional investors and traders are reallocating from bonds to gold, signaling a potential tipping point in market sentiment towards precious metals.
Gold Imports and Speculation: The US has become a net importer of gold, sparking speculation about strategic moves by the Treasury Department and potential implications for the global financial system.
Advice for New Investors: New entrants to the precious metals market are advised to focus on assets like gold and silver to protect against currency devaluation and economic uncertainty.
Future Outlook: The discussion highlights the potential for significant price increases in silver, with technical analysis suggesting a possible target of $96, driven by global demand and market dynamics.
Transcript
Gold just marked a new all-time high. Silver is rallying. We got a horrible jobs report out of DDP, private jobs number, because we might not be getting non-farm payrolls report later this week. And the US government is shut down. So much going on. Gold doesn't know doesn't know any stopping. The momentum is so strong with the precious metals. And I've invited Andy Sheckman of Miles Franklin to the program to discuss the underlying drivers of the gold and silver price moves. Of course, we'll also take a look at the US economy and maybe even global um you know, I wouldn't call them phenomena, but maybe global moves, global factors that impact the precious metals right now as well. And maybe la lastly, I'm going to ask him, what do new buyers or new entrance into the precious metal space or what should they be paying attention to? I think it's really important. We're seeing a lot of new subscribers here on this channel and I think it'd be good to start at zero and maybe give you some background of what you should be doing right now in general. So, thanks so much for that. Um, don't forget to hit that like and subscribe button, by the way. It's free, doesn't cost you a thing, and we much, much appreciate it. Thank you so much for that. Now, Andy, it is great to have you back on the program. It's good to see you, my friend. Thanks so much for joining us. >> Always good to be here with you, brother. Good to see you, too. >> Absolutely. Busy times. Um, it's it's insane. Uh, like I've never I don't think I've ever been this busy. There's so much going on. Um, we've created so much opportunity now we're being overwhelmed, literally, which is great. And, uh, maybe we'll start there, Andy. What do you make of the current situation in the market and uh how are you experiencing it? >> Well, as far as the retail market in precious metals, it's it's it's gone from a very slow trickle over the last several months to fire hose type of um volume. The the there's an awakening and maybe it has something to do with all the metal that's been imported into the ComX over the last um nine months, levels that we've never seen before. um anyone has ever seen before. And that goes hand inhand with what we've been talking about for a long time with the central bank buying. And then you start to see things like the, you know, uh the the CIO of of Morgan Stanley saying, "Well, maybe a 6040 uh stock to bond allocation isn't really good. Maybe we should go 60 2020 20 60% stock 20 bond uh 20 gold." You have Jeff, uh, one of the head traders at Jeffre saying now 6,600 is what they're expecting. You have, uh, Michael Hartnett from Bank of America said, "Well, no, it should be 25 25% stock, 25% bond, 25% short-term treasury, 25% gold." You have uh Goldman Sachs saying if the Federal Reserve gets one whiff of uh the Federal uh uh the Federal Reserve losing independence uh Goldman Sachs says this, but who what's Steven Mirren who who filled that vacated spot but uh but the author of the Miraago accord and adviser to Trump what independence? So there's a lot of I think signals pointing to that the very very big money the institutional money um is moving in this direction. Jeffrey Gunlock the bond king comes out and says 25% gold is not too much of an allocation. Now my whole career Kai 5% was acquiesced by the financial adviserss to appease their clients who were into gold. 25% when the biggest money in the world from Tether to the commercial banks to the central banks to the bond king saying you know look we made our our mark in traditional assets but you might want to weigh up your gold allocation something's different honest to god and then you add on all the imports into comx which is 5 feet of snow in Death Valley in July in terms of an anomaly every month billion over billion over billion over a billion in gold and silver coming into comx Something is really very different for the very first time in 35 years. I I mean that sincerely. Something's very different. >> Absolutely. But the question is now everybody's changing their forecast. Analysts are upgrading their their forecast as well. Goldman Sachs even says like $5,000 is possible if only 1% of the Treasury holdings in the US are being shifted towards gold. I think that's even an understatement to a degree because nobody knows where that money will push gold in in that uh in that scenario. But was there a tipping point or are we back to little by little and then all at once? >> You know, I I I think that um there has been to your point, you know, there there has been a tipping point. What tipped it, I'm not sure. Maybe it was the little by little that's just starting to to tip the you know, they have those things on the cruise ships. They fill up with water and then it it finally tips over and it pours down on the all, you know, on the slide for all the kids. It's what it's like. It's like it's like something is tipping. I don't know. I think it's just a realization that the Federal Reserve is going to move to cut rates. Uh cut rates in an environment raising a rising inflationary environment where the CPI has stayed above their target 2% for over 53 straight months where they've revised, you know, you're going to talk about the the the unemployment numbers. They've revised almost a half a million jobs year to date as is, let alone all the revisions that we saw before that. And uh so I think it's it's a weak market. It's it's the realization that we have chosen inflation over austerity and getting our balance sheet in order. And maybe the world is finally waking up to that. that holding treasuries when Jeffrey Gunlock the bond king says you know let's just all of these guys whether it be Morgan Stanley Goldman Sachs Jeffre or Jeffrey Gunlock saying we're going to take money off the bond table and reallocate it to gold that's when people should stand up and take note this is how these people made their their mark and now they're backing away from it I don't know I I think maybe that is the tipping point is that they're speaking to institutional level people they're not speaking to mom pa they're speaking to for institutional clients and uh you know Michael Hartnett's letter is not cheap and the analyst for BFA and to go to 252 252 255 who's ever heard of that um until now. >> No, you're absolutely right. The question is like are you doing your little shot and foed dance now is like the I told you so dance when nobody's watching of course Andy but are you doing that like how vindicated do you feel after all these years like we we've spoken for years now and it's finally like the trend was always sort of visible for us in the space but now other people are waking up do do you feel sort of vindicated when it comes to that >> I don't feel vindicated I feel relieved and you know for maybe you'll maybe you'll understand this you will more than most it's a heavy responsibility to do what we do and you can get out here and say what you believe, but you know, you're putting your name at and your reputation on the line in front of the world. Um, and people follow what you're saying. I feel relieved that the amount of time that I put in, just like I'm sure you do, three, four, five hours a day, seven days a week, researching, studying, mostly reading, not watching podcasts, scouring the globe for information. I'm happy to know that it's helped some people and that it's coming true. And quite honestly, honestly, it's more concerning and frightening than anything. Yes, there there is reason to be optimistic. It's the Shaw Shank redemption. It's crawling Andy Drain crawling through the tube of crap for two miles to get to the other side. And there is reason to be optimistic in in much of what I see and much of what Trump is trying to do to reshore manufacturing. But if you're not paying attention to what is happening and how they're going to get there, in particular with the Genius Act and my belief of pegging gold to the back end of the bond market, as Judy Shelton has talked about, if you're not paying attention to what that looks like in the mechanics, saving in dollars, you're destined to go broke. This is the first time in my career where I truly do believe that if you're not a contrarian, you'll end up being a victim. So, yeah, I am, I guess you could say, relieved more than I am feeling vindicated. I always in my soul knew that I was right. At least I felt I was. >> It feels good to be quite honest. You know, coming out of a 14-year bare market in the mining stocks as well, it it feels good to finally be right. I hope I'm not just a broken clock who's even who's right twice a week or twice twice a day, right? >> You know what? you can be right based upon economics and and and logic and be wrong for a long time because people that have been using suppression to hold down these markets. Um, these are very powerful folks who have now gone the other way and they're like, "No, no, no, no. I think we're going to go long and stand for delivery." There are different things happening, different dynamics, I believe that will make you look right in spades before it's all said and done. >> Let's break down like who's actually buying gold right now. Like when you look at it like before it was the central banks. I think we've talked about that at Nausea, but uh who's really pushing gold now to 3,900 3915 I think in the futures for December right now as we speak here, Andy. So who who who's the real buyer right now? >> Well, I mean I there's no question that it's it's still the continued, you know, the continued main characters, China and the BRICS nations. But what's vastly different, vastly different is you have the most well-informed traders here in the west in the United States that are standing for delivery to the tune of billions and billions and billions and billions every month. And and the question that you ask is one that should really be thought about. Who the hell is buying all of this every month? We're we're seeing billions and billions and billions every week come into the ComX. And you know guys like Vince Lansancy who are no dummies and he's a smart dude one of the smartest in the industry and he says look you know 85% of the gold that's being bought by the central banks is not being reported to the IMF. They're bringing it in in ways like China going in in Bangor and concentrate as Sean Kungun will tell you from Dolly Varden from all of the miners in Latin America and in Mexico pulling gold and silver out of the ground before you even call it that because it's in concentrate and door form shipping it back and refining it themselves. Well, that doesn't trigger IMF reporting. It's under 999 fine. Um, or buying it from other locations around the globe through maybe proxy banks or sovereign wealth funds that don't trigger it and using artisal miners, artisal and local miners and bringing it in not through the central bank channels so it's not reported. All I'm saying is that the biggest money in the world has been doing this for a long time and getting more creative in the way they're doing it. What is different now is that who the hell is bringing it into this country? If I had to guess now again could be a guess. Um I would say it's the Treasury Department under the guise of the Exchange Stabilization Fund where it can be sh quiet. Don't tell anyone it's for national security. And now I think you should interview Tom Lango as well. He has a very interesting take and that is that Trump understands or believes that it is the European aristocrats who were behind any perception of election interference and a color revolution in this country during the previous administration. And he's out to get the Bank of England and those banks who are massively short in London. Now, all the gold that's been coming back, could it be that it's been covering the short positions of the banks here in the States who when they short on Comix, they go long in London, they bring it back, they call it tariffs. It's not tariffs. It's never been about tariffs. It's been about reshoring. So maybe if you want to walk that fine line of conspiracy and reality and this is coming more from Tom than it is for me, but I think it's a very intriguing idea is that all that gold coming back, maybe it's being used to cover the short positions of the banks and the states with the idea that it's going to go to the Treasury in terms of their gold acquisition for whatever their plans are with gold revaluation or pegging it to the bond market as I believe um and to cover their balance sheet. And we're this close away to some sort of a systemic moment in London where the the inventories in particular of platinum and silver are down to less than one day's worth of trading. And if if these continued delivery requests uh happen, you're talking an existential threat for some of the biggest banks in Europe. And Trump is out to get them is what Tom is saying. out to get the Bank of England and out to get these aristocrats that are the bankers in Europe by having some form of a delivery default in London that would very quickly trigger a systemic chain reaction that could bring down some of the biggest banks in Europe as the banks in the United States have quietly covered. Now, could that happen? Don't know. All I'm telling you is the amount of gold coming into the ComX every single week is unlike anything anyone has ever seen. And we are now net importers of gold for the first time really ever other than World War II when everyone sent us their gold as part of the uh world reserve standard. Um and you know since then maybe one or two months here and there but every every other the trend has been net exporters for the United States as far as gold is concerned. my whole career which is going on 36 years. >> Now, it's interesting because I think it was in March or in April, I may stand corrected here, but the US imported so much gold that it actually hurt the trade balance and Trump wanted to put on tariffs on gold imports from Switzerland. I remember that. So, like my follow-up question there to you, Andy, like wouldn't that be showing up in the trade in the trade balance? I think we got numbers for August just recently as well. Um, when it comes to those gold imports, wouldn't they be showing up there? >> Well, some of it is. Sure, some of it is. And that's why I go back to what Vince is saying. How much of it is coming in in ways that doesn't trigger it that way using proxy banks, using sovereign wealth funds. And the interesting thing about it is that, you know, when you talk about the the worthlessness of the mainstream media who really hasn't done anything in this country but ferment divisiveness. I mean, you would think that when the United States becomes a net importer of gold going back to any time since World War II, where the amount coming in is that we know of north of 150 billion since November and and you you know there's a lot more than that coming in, but the questions aren't even being asked who's doing this. Um, and although obviously markets are are meant to have anonymity attached to them, but where is really mainstream? Why is it that you have to hear from alternative media that this is going on and and what does it truly mean? I would guess that some of it has shown up to your point. It did show up, but not all of it is being reported. If the idea was to use gold and reintegrated into the monetary system, we're seeing it across the global south. We really are. But we're seeing it massively being reintegrated into the plans, the settlement system of the Shanghai Metals Exchange, expanding their vaults throughout the whole Belt Road initiative. Uh the first one was built in Hong Kong. The next one is under construction in Saudi Arabia so that they can trade their local currencies over the Mbridge technology and settle in balances like that in gold where China has now in an effort to internationalize the yuan and the Shanghai metals exchange made digital yuan immediately convertible into gold. not converting back to dollars. This is going to be the rails of their payment system. I believe that gold will have a different role in the United States, but equally as compelling in terms of its monetary future. And any way you look at it, I just think that gold will be reintegrated into the monetary system. And the fact that the government just made silver a critical mineral here in the United States, we see massive amounts of silver, too. like literally billions and billions and billions and billions and billions every week coming in and now it's a critical mineral they just put a floor under the price as far as I'm concerned things are different Kai for the first time the focus isn't on US treasuries in fact the people who've promoted it are saying maybe back off and buy gold the focus isn't on these traditional assets that are now changing and it just feels different at a level that would perpetuate legitimacy that would accentuate legitimacy instead of fighting against the wind forever. It's like we got the wind at our back right now from the highest up of of the food chain in terms of finances. >> Yeah, it's interesting. I just found the number. $9.6 billion were imported. Gold was imported into the US in July. That's the latest number we got. Um it's called non-monetary gold. So, which is an interesting number as well. And a bit of jewelry, 6 billion as well. Uh if you want to add that to it. No, it's it's it's interesting. I'm really curious what the latest numbers for August and then of course September look like because uh trying to understand what the trend is because it wasn't really ETF buying that's pushed gold that much higher that really pushed momentum higher. Of course it's adding to to the momentum but it's not definitely not the single driver. I don't think the generalists are even paying attention yet. Although fun fact I went in preparation of an interview this morning. I went on to the CB CNBC website and a German uh economic financial paper website as well. gold is mentioned like that was I was surprised to see it on both websites um at the top right >> and it's probably in some passing you know and nothing substantial you talk about momentum Michael Oliver is is a is a very interesting man and he focuses primarily on momentum um in in a technical respect and he said that gold has just blown through a channel if you will a a a a annual momentum channel that was broken last month and he would expect this month which is ending today or tomorrow um to see an another all-time monthly high as we've already just beaten the intrammonth high. uh he thinks it's just beginning and his real focus is on silver and he basically thinks that uh silver is going to rip the lid off of the market as he goes on to say it is revising sharply upward in their field in their mind and and that the technicals of both price and long-term momentum um he believes are telling the market what is already occurring and what's about to occur. um a repricing he says of of silver's reality, whatever that means. So this is I've never heard him so bullish on silver. Um he was saying that if it follows the previous cycles of 2010 and 11 or 1979 and 80, you can get as high as 100 or $200 on this move. Um, but it's interesting if you take the 45-year cup and handle of silver, which is now literally almost a double cup and handle and 45 years one of the most powerful technical moves period in in technical analysis. The way that you would figure out where the next stop is and and or where the target would be and even if this analyst who was looking at it didn't know what it was is you take the top of the cup in 1980 goes down to the bottom in in the '9s to $4 goes back up to 50 in 2011 comes down and is making that final push. When it gets through that 50 level you take the distance from top to bottom which would be 50 to 4 that's 46. add it to the top 50 plus 46, your next target's 96 bucks. That's what Michael is saying right here. Um 100 plus. He thinks if compared to 2010 and 11, that's where we'd end up. >> That'd be phenomenal. But uh do you think we're going to bounce off the $50 for for a bit here or do you are we going to just break right through it? You know, the markets for as far back as I can remember find these big numbers like gold at 2000 and it would just keep hitting it and hitting it and hitting it and when it goes through it's gone. It just depends how many times does it take to challenge it. And I would argue that, you know, 50 is just psychological. If you go back and look at 1980 and 2011, it was the it was a cup of coffee long that it hit 50 for both both times. And so what kind of resistance really is there other than, you know, mostly psychological? Um, and you know, Kai, who the hell knows what real price discovery is in gold and silver, it's it's not even debatable that the central banks have held down of the West have held down gold and silver for a long time. When real price discovery happens, because I believe that you can only manipulate a market for so long by pushing it in the direction that it is going. And it was easy for the West to do this for a long time. But you have a whole bunch of players around the globe that are coordinated, motivated, sophisticated, wealthy. They know what we're doing by holding down the paper price. They're standing for delivery largely in London in order to beat us at our own game. And now the folks in the West here get it. uh the big big traders in my either they were tapped on the shoulder and said start bringing this back, pardon my French, and and and you can call it tariffs all you want to fool the public. It's not tariffs, it's about reshoring. Get it back. And that's what they're doing truly. That is what they're doing. Um and and that's why I just think that it's easy for people like you and I and the people listening to this show, Kai, to get wrapped up in recency bias. We've been beaten up so badly over so many years in a in an environment that was counterintuitive to logic and our belief structure, but our belief structure and logic and mathematics have a way of playing out over time. You can't hide from math. And a lot of this is just simply math and logic and it's finally playing out. I think the sky is the limit. So, will it bounce through 50 eventually? Will it do it first time? Maybe, maybe not. It's not. It's irrelevant. I think ultimately sky's is the limit once it does get through though. >> Yeah. Like we we often talk about the big picture. I want to get a tad more granular with you just in terms of like US economic data that's being presented to us. We just got ADP jobs report as well plus the US government shutdown uh on top of it. Um how significant is that for the markets and for what we're talking about here? Gold and silver. What does it really mean? Does it trigger more safe haven demand? >> Well it should. I mean, I think what you can see by the the CPI, I mean, sorry, the CPI numbers and the Bureau of We should just call it the BS instead of the BLS and their their uh massaging of employment numbers. Is that I mean, you take two things away. Number one, inflation is far higher than we are being told. Just ask John Williams of shadowstats.com. He'll say at a eight to the 3% that we're talking about, that's 11%. Um, and the unemployment numbers are far worse than we have been told. And it's interesting, they keep issuing these numbers. The market reacts. What a great economy we have. And then they quietly revise it down to the largest revisions ever. And, you know, month over month, they're taking away, you know, hundreds of thousands of jobs that we thought were created. No, not really. We just our model was wrong. Sorry. And and but the market's already reacted. Um I think that it's becoming obvious that we are heading towards stagflation which is a slowing economy um based uh connected to higher prices and inflation and it's really the most painful part or most painful outcome higher prices lesser and lesser growth. Um and I think it's it's a frightening realization that the job market truly is cooling down. And so now the Fed has to decide what do we do? Do we lower rates? And if we look continue to lower rates, what does that signal to the rest of the world that we've given up on any hope of austerity? We just tighten a little bit and the whole dang thing blows apart. So are you going to sacrifice the employment market and then reignite the inflation engine when we haven't even hit our target for 53 straight months and the number that we tell the public is a lie anyway? So what do you do? And this is the quandry that the Federal Reserve is in. And that's why I think you'll see what we see in Canada and in London. And that is a series of of short the front end of the market um driven down through rate cuts. But the back end said, "No, no, no, no, no, no. We're going to go the other direction because we're not going to hold any duration treasuries of yours without a much higher rate." In other words, can the Federal Reserve through yield curve control the back end? Sure, they probably could, which again is is something that should frighten everybody. But if not, the market is going to demand much higher rates for the risk of holding our debt, which continues unabated. Our fiscal irresponsibility is just an absolute embarrassment. And uh creating still nearly a trillion dollars every 100 plus days, that's not going to work for the rest of the world. And you get to a point where if Trump is able to lower rates on the front end low enough, you're going to get the the very big big big money that is acquiesced to putting it into short-term treasuries where now the rate that they are trying to get to of of 2% on on the federal funds rate is less than the CPI number of almost 3%. They will not stand for that. If and there's your 1% running to gold and we're already there from a real standpoint with inflation. The dollar's down 11% this year. So a four a 4% short-term treasury halfway through the year is or threequarters the way through the year is giving you back 3%. The dollar's down 11. You're negative 8% real return. Gold and silver are both at or above 50% return for the year. This is the trend that we're seeing globally where the biggest money is always three steps ahead of the crowd. They've been they've been shorting or selling, pairing off their treasuries and buying commodities. This whole run up when everyone else you speak of vindication when everyone else said we were stupid. I said no, we're not stupid. Look what the most well-informed traders in the world are doing. Quietly before the rest of you idiots catch on. And I and I I don't mean idiots. I just mean the people in the mainstream who laugh at people like us who who see things differently instead of having an open mind and say things are changing and we cannot go around the world doing what we do and have massive fiscal irresponsibility without there being consequences and you are beginning to see those consequences in the lack of demand for the US Treasury. So, I got a good idea. Let's come up with something called the Genius Act, and we can use that to fund uh the front end of the treasury market with synthetic demand through stable coin creation. I mean, we're getting to that last endstage game where things are um things are going to start to get real interesting and I think really fast also. >> Absolutely. No, Andy, perfect segway actually to my final question for you today is like what should new investors in the space do? We we're trying we're seeing a lot new subscribers here on this channel. We're seeing a lot new a lot new money flowing into this space. What's what's the best advice you have for them right now? >> The best advice would be to not save in dollars, period. Assets are what will save you in this environment. Um and you can see that in in just about everything. Now I real estate might be the one asset that I would not speculate on certainly. Um but I do think assets are the place to be. Now of course my focus would be on gold and silver. the real value and platinum. The real value is probably in platinum and silver. Although the premiums on the pre-1933 gold coins are the lowest I've seen in my career. There is great value. The real value is in silver. The word is asymmetrical. Low downside, massive upside. The LBMA is almost out of all of their free float of silver, which can just like that trigger contagion and a massive spike on uh in price. Billions of of ounces are coming dollars worth of of of silver coming into the ComX every single week. And the US government just reclassified it a critical mineral. Food for thought. But it it doesn't have to just be in my universe. I'm sure there are a lot of people out there who would want to look at cryptocurrencies as a way to shelter from a devaluing dollar. The bottom line simply is this is that if you are saving dollars, you have a very high probability of going broke in terms of your purchasing power. We've seen that already with 11% decline. But look at what Steven Mirren, the architect of the Miraago accord, who is now on the Federal Reserve and is still a an adviser to Trump. His whole idea is to devalue the dollar in order to reshore gold. What did Vice President Vance say? To reshore manufacturing, excuse me. What did Vice President Vance say? Triffin's dilemma being the world reserve currency is no longer a good deal for us. It is a subsidy on the consumer and a drag against manufacturing. It's really not a good deal for us. What does Trump say about a strong dollar? Sure, it's great, but you sure don't do a lot of business or have a lot of tourism. They're telling you they want to devalue the dollar. It's the only way to pay off the debt. It's the only way to have any hope of manufacturing success. It is the only path left to take. Now, there's other stuff to that that that next time when we get more time, we'll talk about it, but a devalued dollar is in the cards. And so do the best you can to accumulate assets, whatever that means to you. Stay away from holding your wealth in dollars. It's a sucker's game right now. >> Fantastic, Andy. Wonderful advice. Really makes a lot of sense. And it's always great to catch up with you. I can't believe 20 29 minutes just flew like flew past like that. Um, where can we send our audience to follow more of your work, Andy? >> So, we have our own YouTube channel at Miles Franklin Media. We brought on Michelle McCrory. her and I do uh some stuff together and she's in interviewing some of the best in the industry and um of course any of your clients or listeners in the United States who would like uh info on precious metals when go to our website at myfranklin.com but our our price list which will be as good or better than anywhere in the country is info@franklin.com send us an email we'll send it to you with no obligation at all if you find better prices let us know we don't update it, but twice a week we typically can match or beat any price in the country. Uh we have reasons for doing it that way or any questions you've heard on this show. Anything you'd like to get addressed. Info info@milesfranklin.com. Let us know you heard about us on Kai show. It's very important for us to track that. And uh Kai, as always, brother, I look forward to seeing your smiling face. Probably not going to see you until January. I I'm assuming you'll be back at Jay Martins's Vancouver Resource Investment Conference. one of the two that I would never miss. >> Absolutely. I just confirmed my attendance actually as a keynote speaker yet again. So, looking forward to that. >> One of these times we'll sit down and have a beer. I know we're both so busy there, but one of these >> we need to get it done. We need to do it. Maybe we even get a day of skiing or something in. >> I go every year. I go up to Whistler. You're welcome to join me, man. Good time. >> That's a plan. Let's I'll take you up on that. We'll do that. Andy, it was great to have you back on. Always great to see you. Thank you so much for your time. I know it's extremely busy. Much much appreciated. Talk soon and everybody else really appreciate you watching it. Fascinating times we're in. Gold and silver are rallying. The e the US economy or the global economy is doing us so many favors right now. ADP jobs report was abysmal. We might not get a non-form payrolls report this Friday. What's the Fed going to base its decisions on? Your guess is as good as mine. We'll see where it goes. Jumbo cuts are back in the in in the fold here and we'll we'll have to take that into account. Thanks so much for tuning in. We'll be back with lots more. Take care out there. [Music]
GOLD & SILVER: The Sky Is The Limit | Andy Schectman
Summary
Transcript
Gold just marked a new all-time high. Silver is rallying. We got a horrible jobs report out of DDP, private jobs number, because we might not be getting non-farm payrolls report later this week. And the US government is shut down. So much going on. Gold doesn't know doesn't know any stopping. The momentum is so strong with the precious metals. And I've invited Andy Sheckman of Miles Franklin to the program to discuss the underlying drivers of the gold and silver price moves. Of course, we'll also take a look at the US economy and maybe even global um you know, I wouldn't call them phenomena, but maybe global moves, global factors that impact the precious metals right now as well. And maybe la lastly, I'm going to ask him, what do new buyers or new entrance into the precious metal space or what should they be paying attention to? I think it's really important. We're seeing a lot of new subscribers here on this channel and I think it'd be good to start at zero and maybe give you some background of what you should be doing right now in general. So, thanks so much for that. Um, don't forget to hit that like and subscribe button, by the way. It's free, doesn't cost you a thing, and we much, much appreciate it. Thank you so much for that. Now, Andy, it is great to have you back on the program. It's good to see you, my friend. Thanks so much for joining us. >> Always good to be here with you, brother. Good to see you, too. >> Absolutely. Busy times. Um, it's it's insane. Uh, like I've never I don't think I've ever been this busy. There's so much going on. Um, we've created so much opportunity now we're being overwhelmed, literally, which is great. And, uh, maybe we'll start there, Andy. What do you make of the current situation in the market and uh how are you experiencing it? >> Well, as far as the retail market in precious metals, it's it's it's gone from a very slow trickle over the last several months to fire hose type of um volume. The the there's an awakening and maybe it has something to do with all the metal that's been imported into the ComX over the last um nine months, levels that we've never seen before. um anyone has ever seen before. And that goes hand inhand with what we've been talking about for a long time with the central bank buying. And then you start to see things like the, you know, uh the the CIO of of Morgan Stanley saying, "Well, maybe a 6040 uh stock to bond allocation isn't really good. Maybe we should go 60 2020 20 60% stock 20 bond uh 20 gold." You have Jeff, uh, one of the head traders at Jeffre saying now 6,600 is what they're expecting. You have, uh, Michael Hartnett from Bank of America said, "Well, no, it should be 25 25% stock, 25% bond, 25% short-term treasury, 25% gold." You have uh Goldman Sachs saying if the Federal Reserve gets one whiff of uh the Federal uh uh the Federal Reserve losing independence uh Goldman Sachs says this, but who what's Steven Mirren who who filled that vacated spot but uh but the author of the Miraago accord and adviser to Trump what independence? So there's a lot of I think signals pointing to that the very very big money the institutional money um is moving in this direction. Jeffrey Gunlock the bond king comes out and says 25% gold is not too much of an allocation. Now my whole career Kai 5% was acquiesced by the financial adviserss to appease their clients who were into gold. 25% when the biggest money in the world from Tether to the commercial banks to the central banks to the bond king saying you know look we made our our mark in traditional assets but you might want to weigh up your gold allocation something's different honest to god and then you add on all the imports into comx which is 5 feet of snow in Death Valley in July in terms of an anomaly every month billion over billion over billion over a billion in gold and silver coming into comx Something is really very different for the very first time in 35 years. I I mean that sincerely. Something's very different. >> Absolutely. But the question is now everybody's changing their forecast. Analysts are upgrading their their forecast as well. Goldman Sachs even says like $5,000 is possible if only 1% of the Treasury holdings in the US are being shifted towards gold. I think that's even an understatement to a degree because nobody knows where that money will push gold in in that uh in that scenario. But was there a tipping point or are we back to little by little and then all at once? >> You know, I I I think that um there has been to your point, you know, there there has been a tipping point. What tipped it, I'm not sure. Maybe it was the little by little that's just starting to to tip the you know, they have those things on the cruise ships. They fill up with water and then it it finally tips over and it pours down on the all, you know, on the slide for all the kids. It's what it's like. It's like it's like something is tipping. I don't know. I think it's just a realization that the Federal Reserve is going to move to cut rates. Uh cut rates in an environment raising a rising inflationary environment where the CPI has stayed above their target 2% for over 53 straight months where they've revised, you know, you're going to talk about the the the unemployment numbers. They've revised almost a half a million jobs year to date as is, let alone all the revisions that we saw before that. And uh so I think it's it's a weak market. It's it's the realization that we have chosen inflation over austerity and getting our balance sheet in order. And maybe the world is finally waking up to that. that holding treasuries when Jeffrey Gunlock the bond king says you know let's just all of these guys whether it be Morgan Stanley Goldman Sachs Jeffre or Jeffrey Gunlock saying we're going to take money off the bond table and reallocate it to gold that's when people should stand up and take note this is how these people made their their mark and now they're backing away from it I don't know I I think maybe that is the tipping point is that they're speaking to institutional level people they're not speaking to mom pa they're speaking to for institutional clients and uh you know Michael Hartnett's letter is not cheap and the analyst for BFA and to go to 252 252 255 who's ever heard of that um until now. >> No, you're absolutely right. The question is like are you doing your little shot and foed dance now is like the I told you so dance when nobody's watching of course Andy but are you doing that like how vindicated do you feel after all these years like we we've spoken for years now and it's finally like the trend was always sort of visible for us in the space but now other people are waking up do do you feel sort of vindicated when it comes to that >> I don't feel vindicated I feel relieved and you know for maybe you'll maybe you'll understand this you will more than most it's a heavy responsibility to do what we do and you can get out here and say what you believe, but you know, you're putting your name at and your reputation on the line in front of the world. Um, and people follow what you're saying. I feel relieved that the amount of time that I put in, just like I'm sure you do, three, four, five hours a day, seven days a week, researching, studying, mostly reading, not watching podcasts, scouring the globe for information. I'm happy to know that it's helped some people and that it's coming true. And quite honestly, honestly, it's more concerning and frightening than anything. Yes, there there is reason to be optimistic. It's the Shaw Shank redemption. It's crawling Andy Drain crawling through the tube of crap for two miles to get to the other side. And there is reason to be optimistic in in much of what I see and much of what Trump is trying to do to reshore manufacturing. But if you're not paying attention to what is happening and how they're going to get there, in particular with the Genius Act and my belief of pegging gold to the back end of the bond market, as Judy Shelton has talked about, if you're not paying attention to what that looks like in the mechanics, saving in dollars, you're destined to go broke. This is the first time in my career where I truly do believe that if you're not a contrarian, you'll end up being a victim. So, yeah, I am, I guess you could say, relieved more than I am feeling vindicated. I always in my soul knew that I was right. At least I felt I was. >> It feels good to be quite honest. You know, coming out of a 14-year bare market in the mining stocks as well, it it feels good to finally be right. I hope I'm not just a broken clock who's even who's right twice a week or twice twice a day, right? >> You know what? you can be right based upon economics and and and logic and be wrong for a long time because people that have been using suppression to hold down these markets. Um, these are very powerful folks who have now gone the other way and they're like, "No, no, no, no. I think we're going to go long and stand for delivery." There are different things happening, different dynamics, I believe that will make you look right in spades before it's all said and done. >> Let's break down like who's actually buying gold right now. Like when you look at it like before it was the central banks. I think we've talked about that at Nausea, but uh who's really pushing gold now to 3,900 3915 I think in the futures for December right now as we speak here, Andy. So who who who's the real buyer right now? >> Well, I mean I there's no question that it's it's still the continued, you know, the continued main characters, China and the BRICS nations. But what's vastly different, vastly different is you have the most well-informed traders here in the west in the United States that are standing for delivery to the tune of billions and billions and billions and billions every month. And and the question that you ask is one that should really be thought about. Who the hell is buying all of this every month? We're we're seeing billions and billions and billions every week come into the ComX. And you know guys like Vince Lansancy who are no dummies and he's a smart dude one of the smartest in the industry and he says look you know 85% of the gold that's being bought by the central banks is not being reported to the IMF. They're bringing it in in ways like China going in in Bangor and concentrate as Sean Kungun will tell you from Dolly Varden from all of the miners in Latin America and in Mexico pulling gold and silver out of the ground before you even call it that because it's in concentrate and door form shipping it back and refining it themselves. Well, that doesn't trigger IMF reporting. It's under 999 fine. Um, or buying it from other locations around the globe through maybe proxy banks or sovereign wealth funds that don't trigger it and using artisal miners, artisal and local miners and bringing it in not through the central bank channels so it's not reported. All I'm saying is that the biggest money in the world has been doing this for a long time and getting more creative in the way they're doing it. What is different now is that who the hell is bringing it into this country? If I had to guess now again could be a guess. Um I would say it's the Treasury Department under the guise of the Exchange Stabilization Fund where it can be sh quiet. Don't tell anyone it's for national security. And now I think you should interview Tom Lango as well. He has a very interesting take and that is that Trump understands or believes that it is the European aristocrats who were behind any perception of election interference and a color revolution in this country during the previous administration. And he's out to get the Bank of England and those banks who are massively short in London. Now, all the gold that's been coming back, could it be that it's been covering the short positions of the banks here in the States who when they short on Comix, they go long in London, they bring it back, they call it tariffs. It's not tariffs. It's never been about tariffs. It's been about reshoring. So maybe if you want to walk that fine line of conspiracy and reality and this is coming more from Tom than it is for me, but I think it's a very intriguing idea is that all that gold coming back, maybe it's being used to cover the short positions of the banks and the states with the idea that it's going to go to the Treasury in terms of their gold acquisition for whatever their plans are with gold revaluation or pegging it to the bond market as I believe um and to cover their balance sheet. And we're this close away to some sort of a systemic moment in London where the the inventories in particular of platinum and silver are down to less than one day's worth of trading. And if if these continued delivery requests uh happen, you're talking an existential threat for some of the biggest banks in Europe. And Trump is out to get them is what Tom is saying. out to get the Bank of England and out to get these aristocrats that are the bankers in Europe by having some form of a delivery default in London that would very quickly trigger a systemic chain reaction that could bring down some of the biggest banks in Europe as the banks in the United States have quietly covered. Now, could that happen? Don't know. All I'm telling you is the amount of gold coming into the ComX every single week is unlike anything anyone has ever seen. And we are now net importers of gold for the first time really ever other than World War II when everyone sent us their gold as part of the uh world reserve standard. Um and you know since then maybe one or two months here and there but every every other the trend has been net exporters for the United States as far as gold is concerned. my whole career which is going on 36 years. >> Now, it's interesting because I think it was in March or in April, I may stand corrected here, but the US imported so much gold that it actually hurt the trade balance and Trump wanted to put on tariffs on gold imports from Switzerland. I remember that. So, like my follow-up question there to you, Andy, like wouldn't that be showing up in the trade in the trade balance? I think we got numbers for August just recently as well. Um, when it comes to those gold imports, wouldn't they be showing up there? >> Well, some of it is. Sure, some of it is. And that's why I go back to what Vince is saying. How much of it is coming in in ways that doesn't trigger it that way using proxy banks, using sovereign wealth funds. And the interesting thing about it is that, you know, when you talk about the the worthlessness of the mainstream media who really hasn't done anything in this country but ferment divisiveness. I mean, you would think that when the United States becomes a net importer of gold going back to any time since World War II, where the amount coming in is that we know of north of 150 billion since November and and you you know there's a lot more than that coming in, but the questions aren't even being asked who's doing this. Um, and although obviously markets are are meant to have anonymity attached to them, but where is really mainstream? Why is it that you have to hear from alternative media that this is going on and and what does it truly mean? I would guess that some of it has shown up to your point. It did show up, but not all of it is being reported. If the idea was to use gold and reintegrated into the monetary system, we're seeing it across the global south. We really are. But we're seeing it massively being reintegrated into the plans, the settlement system of the Shanghai Metals Exchange, expanding their vaults throughout the whole Belt Road initiative. Uh the first one was built in Hong Kong. The next one is under construction in Saudi Arabia so that they can trade their local currencies over the Mbridge technology and settle in balances like that in gold where China has now in an effort to internationalize the yuan and the Shanghai metals exchange made digital yuan immediately convertible into gold. not converting back to dollars. This is going to be the rails of their payment system. I believe that gold will have a different role in the United States, but equally as compelling in terms of its monetary future. And any way you look at it, I just think that gold will be reintegrated into the monetary system. And the fact that the government just made silver a critical mineral here in the United States, we see massive amounts of silver, too. like literally billions and billions and billions and billions and billions every week coming in and now it's a critical mineral they just put a floor under the price as far as I'm concerned things are different Kai for the first time the focus isn't on US treasuries in fact the people who've promoted it are saying maybe back off and buy gold the focus isn't on these traditional assets that are now changing and it just feels different at a level that would perpetuate legitimacy that would accentuate legitimacy instead of fighting against the wind forever. It's like we got the wind at our back right now from the highest up of of the food chain in terms of finances. >> Yeah, it's interesting. I just found the number. $9.6 billion were imported. Gold was imported into the US in July. That's the latest number we got. Um it's called non-monetary gold. So, which is an interesting number as well. And a bit of jewelry, 6 billion as well. Uh if you want to add that to it. No, it's it's it's interesting. I'm really curious what the latest numbers for August and then of course September look like because uh trying to understand what the trend is because it wasn't really ETF buying that's pushed gold that much higher that really pushed momentum higher. Of course it's adding to to the momentum but it's not definitely not the single driver. I don't think the generalists are even paying attention yet. Although fun fact I went in preparation of an interview this morning. I went on to the CB CNBC website and a German uh economic financial paper website as well. gold is mentioned like that was I was surprised to see it on both websites um at the top right >> and it's probably in some passing you know and nothing substantial you talk about momentum Michael Oliver is is a is a very interesting man and he focuses primarily on momentum um in in a technical respect and he said that gold has just blown through a channel if you will a a a a annual momentum channel that was broken last month and he would expect this month which is ending today or tomorrow um to see an another all-time monthly high as we've already just beaten the intrammonth high. uh he thinks it's just beginning and his real focus is on silver and he basically thinks that uh silver is going to rip the lid off of the market as he goes on to say it is revising sharply upward in their field in their mind and and that the technicals of both price and long-term momentum um he believes are telling the market what is already occurring and what's about to occur. um a repricing he says of of silver's reality, whatever that means. So this is I've never heard him so bullish on silver. Um he was saying that if it follows the previous cycles of 2010 and 11 or 1979 and 80, you can get as high as 100 or $200 on this move. Um, but it's interesting if you take the 45-year cup and handle of silver, which is now literally almost a double cup and handle and 45 years one of the most powerful technical moves period in in technical analysis. The way that you would figure out where the next stop is and and or where the target would be and even if this analyst who was looking at it didn't know what it was is you take the top of the cup in 1980 goes down to the bottom in in the '9s to $4 goes back up to 50 in 2011 comes down and is making that final push. When it gets through that 50 level you take the distance from top to bottom which would be 50 to 4 that's 46. add it to the top 50 plus 46, your next target's 96 bucks. That's what Michael is saying right here. Um 100 plus. He thinks if compared to 2010 and 11, that's where we'd end up. >> That'd be phenomenal. But uh do you think we're going to bounce off the $50 for for a bit here or do you are we going to just break right through it? You know, the markets for as far back as I can remember find these big numbers like gold at 2000 and it would just keep hitting it and hitting it and hitting it and when it goes through it's gone. It just depends how many times does it take to challenge it. And I would argue that, you know, 50 is just psychological. If you go back and look at 1980 and 2011, it was the it was a cup of coffee long that it hit 50 for both both times. And so what kind of resistance really is there other than, you know, mostly psychological? Um, and you know, Kai, who the hell knows what real price discovery is in gold and silver, it's it's not even debatable that the central banks have held down of the West have held down gold and silver for a long time. When real price discovery happens, because I believe that you can only manipulate a market for so long by pushing it in the direction that it is going. And it was easy for the West to do this for a long time. But you have a whole bunch of players around the globe that are coordinated, motivated, sophisticated, wealthy. They know what we're doing by holding down the paper price. They're standing for delivery largely in London in order to beat us at our own game. And now the folks in the West here get it. uh the big big traders in my either they were tapped on the shoulder and said start bringing this back, pardon my French, and and and you can call it tariffs all you want to fool the public. It's not tariffs, it's about reshoring. Get it back. And that's what they're doing truly. That is what they're doing. Um and and that's why I just think that it's easy for people like you and I and the people listening to this show, Kai, to get wrapped up in recency bias. We've been beaten up so badly over so many years in a in an environment that was counterintuitive to logic and our belief structure, but our belief structure and logic and mathematics have a way of playing out over time. You can't hide from math. And a lot of this is just simply math and logic and it's finally playing out. I think the sky is the limit. So, will it bounce through 50 eventually? Will it do it first time? Maybe, maybe not. It's not. It's irrelevant. I think ultimately sky's is the limit once it does get through though. >> Yeah. Like we we often talk about the big picture. I want to get a tad more granular with you just in terms of like US economic data that's being presented to us. We just got ADP jobs report as well plus the US government shutdown uh on top of it. Um how significant is that for the markets and for what we're talking about here? Gold and silver. What does it really mean? Does it trigger more safe haven demand? >> Well it should. I mean, I think what you can see by the the CPI, I mean, sorry, the CPI numbers and the Bureau of We should just call it the BS instead of the BLS and their their uh massaging of employment numbers. Is that I mean, you take two things away. Number one, inflation is far higher than we are being told. Just ask John Williams of shadowstats.com. He'll say at a eight to the 3% that we're talking about, that's 11%. Um, and the unemployment numbers are far worse than we have been told. And it's interesting, they keep issuing these numbers. The market reacts. What a great economy we have. And then they quietly revise it down to the largest revisions ever. And, you know, month over month, they're taking away, you know, hundreds of thousands of jobs that we thought were created. No, not really. We just our model was wrong. Sorry. And and but the market's already reacted. Um I think that it's becoming obvious that we are heading towards stagflation which is a slowing economy um based uh connected to higher prices and inflation and it's really the most painful part or most painful outcome higher prices lesser and lesser growth. Um and I think it's it's a frightening realization that the job market truly is cooling down. And so now the Fed has to decide what do we do? Do we lower rates? And if we look continue to lower rates, what does that signal to the rest of the world that we've given up on any hope of austerity? We just tighten a little bit and the whole dang thing blows apart. So are you going to sacrifice the employment market and then reignite the inflation engine when we haven't even hit our target for 53 straight months and the number that we tell the public is a lie anyway? So what do you do? And this is the quandry that the Federal Reserve is in. And that's why I think you'll see what we see in Canada and in London. And that is a series of of short the front end of the market um driven down through rate cuts. But the back end said, "No, no, no, no, no, no. We're going to go the other direction because we're not going to hold any duration treasuries of yours without a much higher rate." In other words, can the Federal Reserve through yield curve control the back end? Sure, they probably could, which again is is something that should frighten everybody. But if not, the market is going to demand much higher rates for the risk of holding our debt, which continues unabated. Our fiscal irresponsibility is just an absolute embarrassment. And uh creating still nearly a trillion dollars every 100 plus days, that's not going to work for the rest of the world. And you get to a point where if Trump is able to lower rates on the front end low enough, you're going to get the the very big big big money that is acquiesced to putting it into short-term treasuries where now the rate that they are trying to get to of of 2% on on the federal funds rate is less than the CPI number of almost 3%. They will not stand for that. If and there's your 1% running to gold and we're already there from a real standpoint with inflation. The dollar's down 11% this year. So a four a 4% short-term treasury halfway through the year is or threequarters the way through the year is giving you back 3%. The dollar's down 11. You're negative 8% real return. Gold and silver are both at or above 50% return for the year. This is the trend that we're seeing globally where the biggest money is always three steps ahead of the crowd. They've been they've been shorting or selling, pairing off their treasuries and buying commodities. This whole run up when everyone else you speak of vindication when everyone else said we were stupid. I said no, we're not stupid. Look what the most well-informed traders in the world are doing. Quietly before the rest of you idiots catch on. And I and I I don't mean idiots. I just mean the people in the mainstream who laugh at people like us who who see things differently instead of having an open mind and say things are changing and we cannot go around the world doing what we do and have massive fiscal irresponsibility without there being consequences and you are beginning to see those consequences in the lack of demand for the US Treasury. So, I got a good idea. Let's come up with something called the Genius Act, and we can use that to fund uh the front end of the treasury market with synthetic demand through stable coin creation. I mean, we're getting to that last endstage game where things are um things are going to start to get real interesting and I think really fast also. >> Absolutely. No, Andy, perfect segway actually to my final question for you today is like what should new investors in the space do? We we're trying we're seeing a lot new subscribers here on this channel. We're seeing a lot new a lot new money flowing into this space. What's what's the best advice you have for them right now? >> The best advice would be to not save in dollars, period. Assets are what will save you in this environment. Um and you can see that in in just about everything. Now I real estate might be the one asset that I would not speculate on certainly. Um but I do think assets are the place to be. Now of course my focus would be on gold and silver. the real value and platinum. The real value is probably in platinum and silver. Although the premiums on the pre-1933 gold coins are the lowest I've seen in my career. There is great value. The real value is in silver. The word is asymmetrical. Low downside, massive upside. The LBMA is almost out of all of their free float of silver, which can just like that trigger contagion and a massive spike on uh in price. Billions of of ounces are coming dollars worth of of of silver coming into the ComX every single week. And the US government just reclassified it a critical mineral. Food for thought. But it it doesn't have to just be in my universe. I'm sure there are a lot of people out there who would want to look at cryptocurrencies as a way to shelter from a devaluing dollar. The bottom line simply is this is that if you are saving dollars, you have a very high probability of going broke in terms of your purchasing power. We've seen that already with 11% decline. But look at what Steven Mirren, the architect of the Miraago accord, who is now on the Federal Reserve and is still a an adviser to Trump. His whole idea is to devalue the dollar in order to reshore gold. What did Vice President Vance say? To reshore manufacturing, excuse me. What did Vice President Vance say? Triffin's dilemma being the world reserve currency is no longer a good deal for us. It is a subsidy on the consumer and a drag against manufacturing. It's really not a good deal for us. What does Trump say about a strong dollar? Sure, it's great, but you sure don't do a lot of business or have a lot of tourism. They're telling you they want to devalue the dollar. It's the only way to pay off the debt. It's the only way to have any hope of manufacturing success. It is the only path left to take. Now, there's other stuff to that that that next time when we get more time, we'll talk about it, but a devalued dollar is in the cards. And so do the best you can to accumulate assets, whatever that means to you. Stay away from holding your wealth in dollars. It's a sucker's game right now. >> Fantastic, Andy. Wonderful advice. Really makes a lot of sense. And it's always great to catch up with you. I can't believe 20 29 minutes just flew like flew past like that. Um, where can we send our audience to follow more of your work, Andy? >> So, we have our own YouTube channel at Miles Franklin Media. We brought on Michelle McCrory. her and I do uh some stuff together and she's in interviewing some of the best in the industry and um of course any of your clients or listeners in the United States who would like uh info on precious metals when go to our website at myfranklin.com but our our price list which will be as good or better than anywhere in the country is info@franklin.com send us an email we'll send it to you with no obligation at all if you find better prices let us know we don't update it, but twice a week we typically can match or beat any price in the country. Uh we have reasons for doing it that way or any questions you've heard on this show. Anything you'd like to get addressed. Info info@milesfranklin.com. Let us know you heard about us on Kai show. It's very important for us to track that. And uh Kai, as always, brother, I look forward to seeing your smiling face. Probably not going to see you until January. I I'm assuming you'll be back at Jay Martins's Vancouver Resource Investment Conference. one of the two that I would never miss. >> Absolutely. I just confirmed my attendance actually as a keynote speaker yet again. So, looking forward to that. >> One of these times we'll sit down and have a beer. I know we're both so busy there, but one of these >> we need to get it done. We need to do it. Maybe we even get a day of skiing or something in. >> I go every year. I go up to Whistler. You're welcome to join me, man. Good time. >> That's a plan. Let's I'll take you up on that. We'll do that. Andy, it was great to have you back on. Always great to see you. Thank you so much for your time. I know it's extremely busy. Much much appreciated. Talk soon and everybody else really appreciate you watching it. Fascinating times we're in. Gold and silver are rallying. The e the US economy or the global economy is doing us so many favors right now. ADP jobs report was abysmal. We might not get a non-form payrolls report this Friday. What's the Fed going to base its decisions on? Your guess is as good as mine. We'll see where it goes. Jumbo cuts are back in the in in the fold here and we'll we'll have to take that into account. Thanks so much for tuning in. We'll be back with lots more. Take care out there. [Music]