Gold Stocks Up 100% In 2025: Expert Reveals Gold's Next Move | Brent Cook
Summary
Investment Strategy: Brent Cook emphasizes the importance of focusing on the 5% of junior miners that are investable, highlighting the need for due diligence in identifying companies with cash, intelligent management, and significant exploration potential.
Market Dynamics: The podcast discusses the typical cycle in the mining sector where major companies run first, followed by mid-tier companies, and eventually micro-cap companies, driven by increased M&A activity.
Gold as a Safe Haven: Gold's rise to $3,600 is attributed to global economic uncertainties, including trade policies and a weakening US dollar, positioning gold as a safer investment compared to fiat currencies.
Economic Feasibility: Cook explains the importance of economic feasibility in mining projects, which involves assessing the cost of building, mining, and extracting resources to ensure profitability.
M&A Trends: The podcast highlights increased M&A activity in the mining sector, driven by higher metal prices and companies seeking synergies and exploration upside in acquisitions.
Company Analysis: Cook shares insights on evaluating mining companies, focusing on management's track record, financial competence, and the ability to raise funds and manage costs effectively.
Precious Metals Outlook: The discussion touches on the potential of various metals, with a preference for gold and copper, while acknowledging silver's role as both a monetary and industrial metal.
Exploration Insights: Brent Cook promotes Exploration Insights, a resource providing technical analysis and investment recommendations in the mining sector, emphasizing transparency and expertise.
Transcript
the chaos chaos of corrupt throughout the world. He's in my view destroying what made America great and by association the rest of the free world. 90% of the companies out there exploring are going to come up blank with nothing. Uh that's just the odds. >> 95% of the junior miners out there are not investable and you know you really should be looking for the 5%. Does that make sense to you? [Music] Brent Cook joins us today. He's an economic geologist and the founder of Exploration Insights, and we're continuing our coverage at the Precious Metals Summit at Beaver Creek. If you're wondering how to pick successful miners, well, Brent has had decades of experience doing exactly just that. He's going to share some of his exploration insights with us today. Thank you for joining us. >> Yeah, love to love to see you again. >> Yeah, good to see you, Brent. The uh gold price has had a tremendous run, as you know. So is silver. $40 an ounce. Not seen since 2011. Gold price unprecedented levels. People are wondering if now is the time to take profits. Are we at that pivotal inflection point? >> That's a real tough call. Uh I deal with that now because I've got number of socks I've picked that are up, you know, five, six, 100 plus%. >> Yeah. >> And the issue I deal with, well, these are still the best quality assets out there and do I sell them and buy something lower? What do I do? So what I have been doing is taken my initial money off the table and I'm looking to re-eploy that into earlier stage projects meaning exploration basically. >> So you think the earlier stage projects haven't had their full run yet? >> Not yet. Um that's a much more difficult thing to get into. I mean you've got 2,000 plus exploration companies scattered around the world. Each one of them is going to tell you they've got the next best thing. So, it's going to take a lot more due diligence, but I do think it's a good time to start looking at companies with cash, intelligent management, who technically know what they're doing and know how to deal with the financial market and have some sort of backing behind them and are looking for something that's significant. >> Right. Well, the van gold miners ETF, the GDX index is up 90% year to date in 2025 as of you know today, midepptember. What typically follows that kind of a cycle? Is it the junior minors, the smallest explorers that run up after the producers or do they rise the same time? Usually >> what usually happens and what's happening now is the majors run. >> Yeah. >> Then people start looking at the mid-tier companies. we start getting a lot more M&A going on which we're seeing now. Uh and then we start looking at the micro cap companies, the ones that don't really have uh defined resource they can point to or are just barely starting to define it but don't have the technical studies behind that to prove the economics behind it. >> Why do the majors typically run first? >> Uh it's the safest place to go. >> Okay. you know they they got production >> because you would think if you want safety you would just buy gold the bullion right if you want upside for me let's say if I want to be exposed to the mining sector I want the most upside possible so I would get gold and then I would get my risk or leverage with the juniors I would skip the you know mid tiers and producers altogether does that logic make sense to you >> not well not truly not that's not what I did um >> you know the majors I owned a they've done well. >> I moved into some mid-tier companies that have some production or at least have an asset with a a technical study on it that tells me what the grade is, what the tons are, kind of what the mining scenario is going to be. Those are have done quite well and now the juniors it's their turn to come in and we're going to see a lot more money come in. The thing is there is such a small sector really compared to the high-tech sector, AI, etc. that it doesn't take much money coming into this to really ramp these uh mid-tier and micro cap companies up. Hey, >> I think I've been interviewing you, Brent, since gold was at $1,800, $1,700, just below 2,000. I think back back then people were talking about when gold would hit 2,000. What is your reaction to gold hitting 3,500 and now 3,600? I recall those days. We'd remember you you had people on, >> you know, so-called experts. Yeah. >> We're going to see 3,000 to$5,000 $10,000 gold. >> And at that time, my comment was more or less, if we do, it means the really hit the fan. >> Yeah. >> And the dollar's down what, 12% this year. Gold looks much better right now. And I think that's why we're seeing uh federal banks around the world come into it. We're seeing crypto guys come into it. I think um gold looks like a very safe heaven right now compared to the US dollar. >> So you're saying gold is run up this year as a response to Trump's trade policies and the uncertainty around that? >> Well, that and everything else he's doing. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um I think that's the majority behind it. I mean, we've also got a 30 plus something trillion deficit. Uh that's an issue. Um rates I suspect are going to start coming down later this year. That's positive for gold, >> right? >> But you're seeing countries and people around the world starting to back off America in every way, including uh the US dollar. >> Well, how would you explain gold to a to an investor who hasn't entered the space yet? What role does gold serve in one's portfolio in 2025? >> Well, it's no one's else's li it's not a liability. You own the gold, it's worth something for, you know, thousands of years. Gold has been a a currency, a stable currency um that you could always buy and sell regardless of what your government does to your monetary, you know, your fiat currency. >> So, in that respect, it's the safest thing out there. But have you have you considered that maybe the volatility that this year and the last year for the gold price has kind of re you know has changed the narrative of gold in in a sense safe means up maybe 3% down maybe 3% a year but up 50 60 something% 70% in a matter of 12 18 months that's that's now a risk asset by most measures right >> by most measures. Yeah. I don't see it that way. No, >> I don't. No, I I think given what I see going on, you know, all over, you know, a number of different um aspects globally, I think gold is going to do relatively well compared to most other things you can invest in. >> Yeah, >> that's my opinion. and silver. I think metals as a whole, copper, uh a rare earth, uh you know, this is metals are starting to come into the forefront finally. >> Based on the conversations you've had, do you recall talking about what has driven this price rally in gold and silver? Who was behind this price rally? I know you talked about central banks buying gold. Uh what about the silver front, for example? Was it mostly the retail investors? Were the institutions coming in? I suspect that's mostly retail. >> Um, >> you know, silver is in historically much more volatile up and down than gold because it's it's just it's more of a fringe >> uh asset in my in my like I'm not a big silver buff. I mean, it's fine. It's great, >> but it's not something I really go after as as opposed to gold, which I know has value. >> Okay. Well, uh, trouble has already occurred around the world to put things more mildly. Uh, what's next for the precious metals now that we've already had this turbulence and now that the price has already reflected, you know, this scenario that we've described? >> Well, by you mean already the chaos has already occurred. It's occurring and it's going to continue to occur. And I think as things get start to look worse in the US in terms of the economy, the jobs, that sort of thing, it's going to Trump is going to become more desperate and it's going to get weirder. And I think that's positive for uh assets outside the US >> and I guess negative for the dollar, >> I would I would imagine. Yeah. >> Yeah. You mentioned earlier that M&A is happening more now. I'm wondering why it's happening now at $3,600 gold and not $2,000 gold. Unfortunately, most companies are not proactive. They're reactive. And now that the gold price and metal prices were so high, they they start stepping in and seeing that >> Well, that's interesting. Do you think that maybe when gold was at $2,000, which was like maybe last year, the industry didn't believe it would stay that high and they were kind of waiting for a pullback for more shopping to start? Do you think that was a mentality a year ago? >> I think you're right. But I think to to point it was, is this gold price real? >> I mean, they're still using in terms of reserves uh under $2,000 an ounce for their reserves. Um >> and I think in and investors as well, you saw the lag between the gold price going up and the ETFs following it. That was like a six-month lag. I think people had to see that no, this gold price, you know, it may be here to stay and started coming in. I think major mining companies are the same way. Plus, their share prices are higher. They're making more money and they they can do more acquisitions. >> Well, you talked to a lot of miners and companies. What is their decision-m criteria when it comes to M&A? You know, what do they look at in the uh environment in the macro landscape before making a decision on whether or not to start deploying their cash on acquisitions? >> Certainly jurisdiction. Um, you want to be someplace that you're comfortable with. Hopefully, someplace you're already working. >> Yeah. >> Um, some sort of synergies would be it'd be really good. Um, you don't want something complicated in terms of metallurgy or mineralization. Uh, you want something with exploration upside. That's really important because right now you're probably paying close to full price for what's defined. But if the company has a large land package and can demonstrate that there's other targets out there because usually when you find something, you find more. >> Yes. >> So there's the upside that they they're, you know, not really paying for, >> right? >> So that's what they're looking for. >> Do the large producers have certain financial metrics that they have to meet before they start acquiring companies? Meaning, let's say they have to have a certain free cash flow yield, meaning they c they have to have a certain amount of cash in their books, meaning they have to see a certain goal price before they're comfortable getting into the market. >> Each company's different, and I'm not, you know, I don't work for the major mining companies, >> but I my, you know, they're looking for an IRRa at at a reasonable gold price or metal price of 20% plus is what I think. A major news item came out today. Angloow and tech merged. It's the second largest mining merger of all time, I believe, I've read. And uh you know what what was your reaction to that news? >> Well, I know Angla was looking to buy something. Yeah, >> I didn't expect it to be tech. I think it's I was great. It's going to uh doicile in Canada. >> It's a it's a merger of two giants. Is that going to start trickling down now to the mid-tiers and the producers buying the smaller juniors now? >> Yeah. Yeah, I think so. I think the uh mid-tier companies um are looking at each other >> cuz you know they want to get bigger. I mean something like I don't know cooler mining might want to buy heckla >> right >> uh which you know both silver kind of companies you know double their size whatever it would do. Um those sorts of things make a lot of sense. The last major bull run in the medals was 2011. Back then, there was a lot more hype around M&A. I wonder why that same sentiment isn't present right now. Starting to pick up, but we're not seeing the same amount of activity now. >> Not yet. >> Yeah, >> not yet. And I think they're a lot more cautious. >> What's different? >> Um, I think they overpaid for a lot of things and bought things that were not that good of quality deposits and the shareholders just >> trashed them. They were pummeled for making bad mistakes. So I think they are being a lot more cautious in what they buy these days. >> And uh between copper, silver and gold, which of these metals do you like the most right now? >> I would say gold. >> Yeah. >> Um and by association, silver. Uh copper I think is going to do really well. Uh rare earth if you're in the right place with the right type of deposit. um in the US uranium. So yeah, that's that's kind of where I'm at. >> Gold we've talked about. Uh what is the narrative behind silver? Is it a monetary metal or is an industrial play right now for you? >> A little of both. I think it's like it's always been called the poor man's gold. Uh and that's kind of what I how I view it. I'm not again I'm not a big silver fan per se. >> Yeah. >> Um but if a silver deposit makes good money, it doesn't matter to me. It's all about the margins. >> Okay. And would you say that your preference is the same for the miners as well? You like the gold miners more than the silver miners and the copper miners? >> Yeah. I mean, it's harder to find a pure silver play. >> Yeah. >> U most silver comes associated with base metals andor gold. >> Yeah. >> Um so pure silver plays are tough to find. >> Okay. Well, walk us through some of the um processes that you have as a as an economic geologist when picking an asset. >> I think the first thing I want to understand is what is it? If I'm looking at a company and a and the corporation, the people behind it, do they actually know what they're looking for? Uh that sounds silly, but it's not. A lot of people go out and just start, you know, drilling. really find a pfree copper by what by look knowing what they're looking for I mean is okay you're going to go find a pfree copper given the location you're at the infrastructure you're going to have to build to get there the metallergy you expect what grade and tons do you need to actually make a relevant discovery and too many companies are just drilling holes and getting basically building big anomalies but not building a resource so the company has to know what they're looking for looks like in terms of the ultimate economics behind it. Um, they need to be financially competent, meaning they are have the ability to raise money at the right time and they've got people behind them that will step up and put money in. Again, that sort of thing. That's kind of what I the big picture I look at. And I'm only mostly interested in a discovery that's going to be good enough that someone else is going to buy them out. I don't generally exploration companies, people running that are not the same type of mentality you need to build a mine. Um, so I don't want to see a bunch of geologists build a mine, for instance. So I wanted to see them find something good enough the company come a mining company comes in and buys them and builds. >> How often does that happen? >> Fairly often for a good deposit, >> right? >> Yeah. I mean that's the that's the goal there. >> Yeah. You know I've heard the uh opinion that 95% of the junior miners out there are not investable and you know you really should be looking for the 5%. Does that make sense to you? I wouldn't say non-investable, but I mean the facts are it's gold's not selling for 3,600 an ounce because it's easy to find, >> right? >> Um I would say 90% of the companies out there exploring are going to come up blank with nothing. Uh that's just the odds. um with exploration insights with Joe Mazand writing you know now doing the letter um we've been able to pick companies that look good to begin with but along the way realizing what that fatal flaw is why it's not going to work and still make money on the runup before a stock collapsed >> kind of like venture capital when you think about it that's what you are you're you're picking a bunch of things maybe nine out of 10 don't work out but that one that does >> could get you 600% Yeah. >> Yeah. That that is the fair >> Yeah. >> comparison. >> So, mentally, you're ready for your pick to fail. >> Yeah. And I'm looking for the fail. I want to know before anyone else >> why it's not going to work. >> Is there a certain point when you realize that they're not going to find anything and you should bail? >> Yeah, there usually is. I mean, it could be drill results, it could be metal urgy. >> Yeah. could be uh >> well let's say they have several seasons of no you know updates or progression on their draw results their PA isn't giving any promising you know results from the last uh assessment at what point do you say all right that's enough let's time to walk out or maybe just give them more time >> that's a casebyase basis >> so that's a tough call but >> one thing I did learn working with Rick Rule was Um it's some if don't you know hope is not an investment >> okay >> thesis in this sector right >> so if what my initial the initial thesis was as to why I bought the stock if that fails I'm not going to handle on and hope that something better something happens or that the next drill hole disproves me it's it you know I analyze the data decide what I need to see for this to work and if that doesn't work, I'm out. >> A term that's used a lot in this industry is economic feasibility. What does that actually mean? >> Basically, that you can build a thing and make money. Um, >> yeah, that can you can you you know be more specific? How does that how does the math work out there? >> All right. So you you you to define aer deposits going to cost you >> tens to hundreds of millions of dollars to bring it to a prefeasibility or feasibility stage depending on that. >> And that gets you to the point where you you generally know what it's going to cost to build it, what it's going to cost to mine it, what it's going to cost to extract the ore, and what you're going to get paid for that. And that's, you know, all that has to be positive and then you've got your margin and you want a decent margin there. Um, I mean, that's what you're looking for. >> Okay. But that's based on a bunch of well a lot of assumptions and a lot of guesses on how it how much it may cost to actually >> Well, that's what the studies are for. I mean, that's when we get to the prefeases or the feasibility stage. That's what is the details are worked out is to how do we what's the process methodology to extract the gold from the rock or whatever like do you need is it can you just throw throw cyanide on it and leech it right >> that's much cheaper than grinding it and floating it and sending it off somewhere you know or much much cheaper than if you've got to use some sort of high pressure temperature to extract it. So all those things factor in. >> Well, let's use a real life example. Can you give us a stock that you like and tell us why you like it? >> Sure. I got to think of one here. All right. So, one of the stocks that I've done really well on is is Southern Cross in Victoria, Australia. They've made a great discovery. The uh the continuity of the vein. It's it's a high-grade vein system. No resource yet. the continuity between drill holes is good, which is what you want to see because when you're mining underground, you don't want to go through dead zones if you don't want to mine waste. >> Um, so that's that's looking good. The stock's done well. It's now over a billion dollar market cap, Canadian. >> Um, but I think it's a deposit that's good enough that someone might come in and buy it. >> Okay. >> Another one I'll give you is a copper play in Arizona. U Arizona Snor Copper ASCU. Um they've got a nice deposit. It's permitted almost totally permitted. They've got the water. They got the metaly worked out. The grade's good. Uh the everybody's on board. The locals on board and it's going to they be be producing cathode copper in the United States. That's a really nice deposit. And again, if they build it, they'll make money, but I think someone's going to come in and buy that one out because it's such a good deposit. >> Yeah. So, you don't actually care about zoning and permitting times and jurisdiction risk and all that because you're you're betting on a takeout. You're not betting on this company to take it into production. >> I don't I would prefer they didn't. >> Yeah. >> But before someone buys them, they need to see that it's permittable or it's permitted. I think that's the key here is if just prove that you can permit this to build it and we'll buy it. >> Does Okay, here's a question. Does the >> this close? >> Yeah. Does the success of permitting change if let's say the deposit changes hands to a larger company, meaning does a larger company that owns this asset now, do they have a higher chance of getting permitting rights on that particular deposit than a junior mining with fewer resources? Um, in theory it shouldn't matter. >> Okay. >> But often times if a >> depending on where you are in the world, >> yeah, >> if a big company comes in, they're a target. >> Yeah. >> For whatever reason and it may be more difficult. Um, and again, >> if they come in and they can deal with the government and respectfully and everyone's, you know, on board and like that that that helps a lot as well. >> Okay. So, you've named two companies you like. Let's change the script and talk about some companies you don't like. You don't have to give names, but like just give us an example of what to look for, red flags to look for when you're looking at a company and you know either a they don't have anything in the ground or this is not economically feasible or you know we should just stay away. >> Um, okay. There's a company with a resource in Canada. It's it's a gold copper most it's a gold resource. Um, it's reasonably low grade, like 1 point something grams, but it's deep. It's, you've got probably 300 meters of waste rock to move. That all costs money just to get to the deposit. The deposit itself consists of a number of discrete veins that the mineralization within them is very erratic. So even if you remove the waist rock, get to that, it's going to be difficult to know what grade you're actually mining, where the where you're mining it, and how much baron rock gets thrown in with what they're they're going to call ore. >> Yeah. >> So you've got a big strip ratio, waste to to move. You've got erratic gold mineralization and you've got veins that are separated by barren rock. And when you're mining big scale bulk mining like that, it's really difficult to differentiate the high, you know, the grade from the waste when you're mining, you know, 5 10 m widths. >> Okay. And in terms of cost management, just looking at the financial statements, how do you know if let's say one company is managed better than another? >> We'd like to see that most of their money is spent in the ground as opposed to corporate GNA or promotion. >> I mean, there's a number of companies out there that spend half million, million bucks a year plus on promotion. >> Yeah. >> But they're not really doing anything. I mean, that works. I mean, you can play that game. Uh >> yeah, >> but that's not what we do, >> right? Okay. And they say that management track record is important for picking a company. How important really is it? >> I think management's history is really important uh to know what they've you know what they've been involved in >> how I mean how they handled failure. um that sort of thing as well cuz most people who what are serial su seriously serially successful they've had a number of failures too but how they handled that is is kind of important and >> you know there's always going to be some new guy that's never found anything that makes some fantastic discovery well he's got no track record or he or she's got no track record right >> so >> yeah he could be the next Mark Zuckerberg of mining Right. In the sense that you look at all these tech giants, a lot of them were founded by people with zero management experience. >> Exactly. >> You know, how do you how do you bet on that? >> Yeah. >> I mean, the guy Snowline uh done really well. >> Sure. >> Okay. Great. Thank you, Brett. Uh where can we find your work and tell us a little bit more about what we can find. >> Right. Well, Joe Mazumar now writes Exploration Insights. >> Yeah. >> He in my opinion is the best mining analyst out there. Uh the website is explorationinsights.com. There's a number of videos up that he's done and I've done um stuff he's written. I think if you contact him via the website, he'll give you a sample of an older letter to see what it does. But these are very technical >> uh things. And what he's doing is telling you what he's buying with his money and why. >> He's not getting paid by anyone to say anything, etc., etc. Yeah, >> it's very honest. Very, >> very good. Very good letter. >> And you can find me on Twitter sometimes. >> Okay. Sometimes. We'll put the uh Twitter ex handle down below. So, make sure to follow Brent there. Pleasure speaking with you. Take care. >> See you again. Thank you. >> Thank you for watching. Don't forget to like and subscribe.
Gold Stocks Up 100% In 2025: Expert Reveals Gold's Next Move | Brent Cook
Summary
Transcript
the chaos chaos of corrupt throughout the world. He's in my view destroying what made America great and by association the rest of the free world. 90% of the companies out there exploring are going to come up blank with nothing. Uh that's just the odds. >> 95% of the junior miners out there are not investable and you know you really should be looking for the 5%. Does that make sense to you? [Music] Brent Cook joins us today. He's an economic geologist and the founder of Exploration Insights, and we're continuing our coverage at the Precious Metals Summit at Beaver Creek. If you're wondering how to pick successful miners, well, Brent has had decades of experience doing exactly just that. He's going to share some of his exploration insights with us today. Thank you for joining us. >> Yeah, love to love to see you again. >> Yeah, good to see you, Brent. The uh gold price has had a tremendous run, as you know. So is silver. $40 an ounce. Not seen since 2011. Gold price unprecedented levels. People are wondering if now is the time to take profits. Are we at that pivotal inflection point? >> That's a real tough call. Uh I deal with that now because I've got number of socks I've picked that are up, you know, five, six, 100 plus%. >> Yeah. >> And the issue I deal with, well, these are still the best quality assets out there and do I sell them and buy something lower? What do I do? So what I have been doing is taken my initial money off the table and I'm looking to re-eploy that into earlier stage projects meaning exploration basically. >> So you think the earlier stage projects haven't had their full run yet? >> Not yet. Um that's a much more difficult thing to get into. I mean you've got 2,000 plus exploration companies scattered around the world. Each one of them is going to tell you they've got the next best thing. So, it's going to take a lot more due diligence, but I do think it's a good time to start looking at companies with cash, intelligent management, who technically know what they're doing and know how to deal with the financial market and have some sort of backing behind them and are looking for something that's significant. >> Right. Well, the van gold miners ETF, the GDX index is up 90% year to date in 2025 as of you know today, midepptember. What typically follows that kind of a cycle? Is it the junior minors, the smallest explorers that run up after the producers or do they rise the same time? Usually >> what usually happens and what's happening now is the majors run. >> Yeah. >> Then people start looking at the mid-tier companies. we start getting a lot more M&A going on which we're seeing now. Uh and then we start looking at the micro cap companies, the ones that don't really have uh defined resource they can point to or are just barely starting to define it but don't have the technical studies behind that to prove the economics behind it. >> Why do the majors typically run first? >> Uh it's the safest place to go. >> Okay. you know they they got production >> because you would think if you want safety you would just buy gold the bullion right if you want upside for me let's say if I want to be exposed to the mining sector I want the most upside possible so I would get gold and then I would get my risk or leverage with the juniors I would skip the you know mid tiers and producers altogether does that logic make sense to you >> not well not truly not that's not what I did um >> you know the majors I owned a they've done well. >> I moved into some mid-tier companies that have some production or at least have an asset with a a technical study on it that tells me what the grade is, what the tons are, kind of what the mining scenario is going to be. Those are have done quite well and now the juniors it's their turn to come in and we're going to see a lot more money come in. The thing is there is such a small sector really compared to the high-tech sector, AI, etc. that it doesn't take much money coming into this to really ramp these uh mid-tier and micro cap companies up. Hey, >> I think I've been interviewing you, Brent, since gold was at $1,800, $1,700, just below 2,000. I think back back then people were talking about when gold would hit 2,000. What is your reaction to gold hitting 3,500 and now 3,600? I recall those days. We'd remember you you had people on, >> you know, so-called experts. Yeah. >> We're going to see 3,000 to$5,000 $10,000 gold. >> And at that time, my comment was more or less, if we do, it means the really hit the fan. >> Yeah. >> And the dollar's down what, 12% this year. Gold looks much better right now. And I think that's why we're seeing uh federal banks around the world come into it. We're seeing crypto guys come into it. I think um gold looks like a very safe heaven right now compared to the US dollar. >> So you're saying gold is run up this year as a response to Trump's trade policies and the uncertainty around that? >> Well, that and everything else he's doing. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um I think that's the majority behind it. I mean, we've also got a 30 plus something trillion deficit. Uh that's an issue. Um rates I suspect are going to start coming down later this year. That's positive for gold, >> right? >> But you're seeing countries and people around the world starting to back off America in every way, including uh the US dollar. >> Well, how would you explain gold to a to an investor who hasn't entered the space yet? What role does gold serve in one's portfolio in 2025? >> Well, it's no one's else's li it's not a liability. You own the gold, it's worth something for, you know, thousands of years. Gold has been a a currency, a stable currency um that you could always buy and sell regardless of what your government does to your monetary, you know, your fiat currency. >> So, in that respect, it's the safest thing out there. But have you have you considered that maybe the volatility that this year and the last year for the gold price has kind of re you know has changed the narrative of gold in in a sense safe means up maybe 3% down maybe 3% a year but up 50 60 something% 70% in a matter of 12 18 months that's that's now a risk asset by most measures right >> by most measures. Yeah. I don't see it that way. No, >> I don't. No, I I think given what I see going on, you know, all over, you know, a number of different um aspects globally, I think gold is going to do relatively well compared to most other things you can invest in. >> Yeah, >> that's my opinion. and silver. I think metals as a whole, copper, uh a rare earth, uh you know, this is metals are starting to come into the forefront finally. >> Based on the conversations you've had, do you recall talking about what has driven this price rally in gold and silver? Who was behind this price rally? I know you talked about central banks buying gold. Uh what about the silver front, for example? Was it mostly the retail investors? Were the institutions coming in? I suspect that's mostly retail. >> Um, >> you know, silver is in historically much more volatile up and down than gold because it's it's just it's more of a fringe >> uh asset in my in my like I'm not a big silver buff. I mean, it's fine. It's great, >> but it's not something I really go after as as opposed to gold, which I know has value. >> Okay. Well, uh, trouble has already occurred around the world to put things more mildly. Uh, what's next for the precious metals now that we've already had this turbulence and now that the price has already reflected, you know, this scenario that we've described? >> Well, by you mean already the chaos has already occurred. It's occurring and it's going to continue to occur. And I think as things get start to look worse in the US in terms of the economy, the jobs, that sort of thing, it's going to Trump is going to become more desperate and it's going to get weirder. And I think that's positive for uh assets outside the US >> and I guess negative for the dollar, >> I would I would imagine. Yeah. >> Yeah. You mentioned earlier that M&A is happening more now. I'm wondering why it's happening now at $3,600 gold and not $2,000 gold. Unfortunately, most companies are not proactive. They're reactive. And now that the gold price and metal prices were so high, they they start stepping in and seeing that >> Well, that's interesting. Do you think that maybe when gold was at $2,000, which was like maybe last year, the industry didn't believe it would stay that high and they were kind of waiting for a pullback for more shopping to start? Do you think that was a mentality a year ago? >> I think you're right. But I think to to point it was, is this gold price real? >> I mean, they're still using in terms of reserves uh under $2,000 an ounce for their reserves. Um >> and I think in and investors as well, you saw the lag between the gold price going up and the ETFs following it. That was like a six-month lag. I think people had to see that no, this gold price, you know, it may be here to stay and started coming in. I think major mining companies are the same way. Plus, their share prices are higher. They're making more money and they they can do more acquisitions. >> Well, you talked to a lot of miners and companies. What is their decision-m criteria when it comes to M&A? You know, what do they look at in the uh environment in the macro landscape before making a decision on whether or not to start deploying their cash on acquisitions? >> Certainly jurisdiction. Um, you want to be someplace that you're comfortable with. Hopefully, someplace you're already working. >> Yeah. >> Um, some sort of synergies would be it'd be really good. Um, you don't want something complicated in terms of metallurgy or mineralization. Uh, you want something with exploration upside. That's really important because right now you're probably paying close to full price for what's defined. But if the company has a large land package and can demonstrate that there's other targets out there because usually when you find something, you find more. >> Yes. >> So there's the upside that they they're, you know, not really paying for, >> right? >> So that's what they're looking for. >> Do the large producers have certain financial metrics that they have to meet before they start acquiring companies? Meaning, let's say they have to have a certain free cash flow yield, meaning they c they have to have a certain amount of cash in their books, meaning they have to see a certain goal price before they're comfortable getting into the market. >> Each company's different, and I'm not, you know, I don't work for the major mining companies, >> but I my, you know, they're looking for an IRRa at at a reasonable gold price or metal price of 20% plus is what I think. A major news item came out today. Angloow and tech merged. It's the second largest mining merger of all time, I believe, I've read. And uh you know what what was your reaction to that news? >> Well, I know Angla was looking to buy something. Yeah, >> I didn't expect it to be tech. I think it's I was great. It's going to uh doicile in Canada. >> It's a it's a merger of two giants. Is that going to start trickling down now to the mid-tiers and the producers buying the smaller juniors now? >> Yeah. Yeah, I think so. I think the uh mid-tier companies um are looking at each other >> cuz you know they want to get bigger. I mean something like I don't know cooler mining might want to buy heckla >> right >> uh which you know both silver kind of companies you know double their size whatever it would do. Um those sorts of things make a lot of sense. The last major bull run in the medals was 2011. Back then, there was a lot more hype around M&A. I wonder why that same sentiment isn't present right now. Starting to pick up, but we're not seeing the same amount of activity now. >> Not yet. >> Yeah, >> not yet. And I think they're a lot more cautious. >> What's different? >> Um, I think they overpaid for a lot of things and bought things that were not that good of quality deposits and the shareholders just >> trashed them. They were pummeled for making bad mistakes. So I think they are being a lot more cautious in what they buy these days. >> And uh between copper, silver and gold, which of these metals do you like the most right now? >> I would say gold. >> Yeah. >> Um and by association, silver. Uh copper I think is going to do really well. Uh rare earth if you're in the right place with the right type of deposit. um in the US uranium. So yeah, that's that's kind of where I'm at. >> Gold we've talked about. Uh what is the narrative behind silver? Is it a monetary metal or is an industrial play right now for you? >> A little of both. I think it's like it's always been called the poor man's gold. Uh and that's kind of what I how I view it. I'm not again I'm not a big silver fan per se. >> Yeah. >> Um but if a silver deposit makes good money, it doesn't matter to me. It's all about the margins. >> Okay. And would you say that your preference is the same for the miners as well? You like the gold miners more than the silver miners and the copper miners? >> Yeah. I mean, it's harder to find a pure silver play. >> Yeah. >> U most silver comes associated with base metals andor gold. >> Yeah. >> Um so pure silver plays are tough to find. >> Okay. Well, walk us through some of the um processes that you have as a as an economic geologist when picking an asset. >> I think the first thing I want to understand is what is it? If I'm looking at a company and a and the corporation, the people behind it, do they actually know what they're looking for? Uh that sounds silly, but it's not. A lot of people go out and just start, you know, drilling. really find a pfree copper by what by look knowing what they're looking for I mean is okay you're going to go find a pfree copper given the location you're at the infrastructure you're going to have to build to get there the metallergy you expect what grade and tons do you need to actually make a relevant discovery and too many companies are just drilling holes and getting basically building big anomalies but not building a resource so the company has to know what they're looking for looks like in terms of the ultimate economics behind it. Um, they need to be financially competent, meaning they are have the ability to raise money at the right time and they've got people behind them that will step up and put money in. Again, that sort of thing. That's kind of what I the big picture I look at. And I'm only mostly interested in a discovery that's going to be good enough that someone else is going to buy them out. I don't generally exploration companies, people running that are not the same type of mentality you need to build a mine. Um, so I don't want to see a bunch of geologists build a mine, for instance. So I wanted to see them find something good enough the company come a mining company comes in and buys them and builds. >> How often does that happen? >> Fairly often for a good deposit, >> right? >> Yeah. I mean that's the that's the goal there. >> Yeah. You know I've heard the uh opinion that 95% of the junior miners out there are not investable and you know you really should be looking for the 5%. Does that make sense to you? I wouldn't say non-investable, but I mean the facts are it's gold's not selling for 3,600 an ounce because it's easy to find, >> right? >> Um I would say 90% of the companies out there exploring are going to come up blank with nothing. Uh that's just the odds. um with exploration insights with Joe Mazand writing you know now doing the letter um we've been able to pick companies that look good to begin with but along the way realizing what that fatal flaw is why it's not going to work and still make money on the runup before a stock collapsed >> kind of like venture capital when you think about it that's what you are you're you're picking a bunch of things maybe nine out of 10 don't work out but that one that does >> could get you 600% Yeah. >> Yeah. That that is the fair >> Yeah. >> comparison. >> So, mentally, you're ready for your pick to fail. >> Yeah. And I'm looking for the fail. I want to know before anyone else >> why it's not going to work. >> Is there a certain point when you realize that they're not going to find anything and you should bail? >> Yeah, there usually is. I mean, it could be drill results, it could be metal urgy. >> Yeah. could be uh >> well let's say they have several seasons of no you know updates or progression on their draw results their PA isn't giving any promising you know results from the last uh assessment at what point do you say all right that's enough let's time to walk out or maybe just give them more time >> that's a casebyase basis >> so that's a tough call but >> one thing I did learn working with Rick Rule was Um it's some if don't you know hope is not an investment >> okay >> thesis in this sector right >> so if what my initial the initial thesis was as to why I bought the stock if that fails I'm not going to handle on and hope that something better something happens or that the next drill hole disproves me it's it you know I analyze the data decide what I need to see for this to work and if that doesn't work, I'm out. >> A term that's used a lot in this industry is economic feasibility. What does that actually mean? >> Basically, that you can build a thing and make money. Um, >> yeah, that can you can you you know be more specific? How does that how does the math work out there? >> All right. So you you you to define aer deposits going to cost you >> tens to hundreds of millions of dollars to bring it to a prefeasibility or feasibility stage depending on that. >> And that gets you to the point where you you generally know what it's going to cost to build it, what it's going to cost to mine it, what it's going to cost to extract the ore, and what you're going to get paid for that. And that's, you know, all that has to be positive and then you've got your margin and you want a decent margin there. Um, I mean, that's what you're looking for. >> Okay. But that's based on a bunch of well a lot of assumptions and a lot of guesses on how it how much it may cost to actually >> Well, that's what the studies are for. I mean, that's when we get to the prefeases or the feasibility stage. That's what is the details are worked out is to how do we what's the process methodology to extract the gold from the rock or whatever like do you need is it can you just throw throw cyanide on it and leech it right >> that's much cheaper than grinding it and floating it and sending it off somewhere you know or much much cheaper than if you've got to use some sort of high pressure temperature to extract it. So all those things factor in. >> Well, let's use a real life example. Can you give us a stock that you like and tell us why you like it? >> Sure. I got to think of one here. All right. So, one of the stocks that I've done really well on is is Southern Cross in Victoria, Australia. They've made a great discovery. The uh the continuity of the vein. It's it's a high-grade vein system. No resource yet. the continuity between drill holes is good, which is what you want to see because when you're mining underground, you don't want to go through dead zones if you don't want to mine waste. >> Um, so that's that's looking good. The stock's done well. It's now over a billion dollar market cap, Canadian. >> Um, but I think it's a deposit that's good enough that someone might come in and buy it. >> Okay. >> Another one I'll give you is a copper play in Arizona. U Arizona Snor Copper ASCU. Um they've got a nice deposit. It's permitted almost totally permitted. They've got the water. They got the metaly worked out. The grade's good. Uh the everybody's on board. The locals on board and it's going to they be be producing cathode copper in the United States. That's a really nice deposit. And again, if they build it, they'll make money, but I think someone's going to come in and buy that one out because it's such a good deposit. >> Yeah. So, you don't actually care about zoning and permitting times and jurisdiction risk and all that because you're you're betting on a takeout. You're not betting on this company to take it into production. >> I don't I would prefer they didn't. >> Yeah. >> But before someone buys them, they need to see that it's permittable or it's permitted. I think that's the key here is if just prove that you can permit this to build it and we'll buy it. >> Does Okay, here's a question. Does the >> this close? >> Yeah. Does the success of permitting change if let's say the deposit changes hands to a larger company, meaning does a larger company that owns this asset now, do they have a higher chance of getting permitting rights on that particular deposit than a junior mining with fewer resources? Um, in theory it shouldn't matter. >> Okay. >> But often times if a >> depending on where you are in the world, >> yeah, >> if a big company comes in, they're a target. >> Yeah. >> For whatever reason and it may be more difficult. Um, and again, >> if they come in and they can deal with the government and respectfully and everyone's, you know, on board and like that that that helps a lot as well. >> Okay. So, you've named two companies you like. Let's change the script and talk about some companies you don't like. You don't have to give names, but like just give us an example of what to look for, red flags to look for when you're looking at a company and you know either a they don't have anything in the ground or this is not economically feasible or you know we should just stay away. >> Um, okay. There's a company with a resource in Canada. It's it's a gold copper most it's a gold resource. Um, it's reasonably low grade, like 1 point something grams, but it's deep. It's, you've got probably 300 meters of waste rock to move. That all costs money just to get to the deposit. The deposit itself consists of a number of discrete veins that the mineralization within them is very erratic. So even if you remove the waist rock, get to that, it's going to be difficult to know what grade you're actually mining, where the where you're mining it, and how much baron rock gets thrown in with what they're they're going to call ore. >> Yeah. >> So you've got a big strip ratio, waste to to move. You've got erratic gold mineralization and you've got veins that are separated by barren rock. And when you're mining big scale bulk mining like that, it's really difficult to differentiate the high, you know, the grade from the waste when you're mining, you know, 5 10 m widths. >> Okay. And in terms of cost management, just looking at the financial statements, how do you know if let's say one company is managed better than another? >> We'd like to see that most of their money is spent in the ground as opposed to corporate GNA or promotion. >> I mean, there's a number of companies out there that spend half million, million bucks a year plus on promotion. >> Yeah. >> But they're not really doing anything. I mean, that works. I mean, you can play that game. Uh >> yeah, >> but that's not what we do, >> right? Okay. And they say that management track record is important for picking a company. How important really is it? >> I think management's history is really important uh to know what they've you know what they've been involved in >> how I mean how they handled failure. um that sort of thing as well cuz most people who what are serial su seriously serially successful they've had a number of failures too but how they handled that is is kind of important and >> you know there's always going to be some new guy that's never found anything that makes some fantastic discovery well he's got no track record or he or she's got no track record right >> so >> yeah he could be the next Mark Zuckerberg of mining Right. In the sense that you look at all these tech giants, a lot of them were founded by people with zero management experience. >> Exactly. >> You know, how do you how do you bet on that? >> Yeah. >> I mean, the guy Snowline uh done really well. >> Sure. >> Okay. Great. Thank you, Brett. Uh where can we find your work and tell us a little bit more about what we can find. >> Right. Well, Joe Mazumar now writes Exploration Insights. >> Yeah. >> He in my opinion is the best mining analyst out there. Uh the website is explorationinsights.com. There's a number of videos up that he's done and I've done um stuff he's written. I think if you contact him via the website, he'll give you a sample of an older letter to see what it does. But these are very technical >> uh things. And what he's doing is telling you what he's buying with his money and why. >> He's not getting paid by anyone to say anything, etc., etc. Yeah, >> it's very honest. Very, >> very good. Very good letter. >> And you can find me on Twitter sometimes. >> Okay. Sometimes. We'll put the uh Twitter ex handle down below. So, make sure to follow Brent there. Pleasure speaking with you. Take care. >> See you again. Thank you. >> Thank you for watching. Don't forget to like and subscribe.