GOLD: This Is How the Next Reset Begins | Lawrence Lepard
Summary
Sound Money: The guest frames the core thesis as owning analog sound money (gold) and digital sound money (Bitcoin), noting both compete within a “sound money” allocation.
Monetary Debasement: He argues persistent money printing and a likely return to QE will drive a long-term “monetary debasement trade,” benefiting assets governments can’t print.
Bitcoin: Adoption signals like a Gemini SATs-back credit card and institutional acceptance support the case; he expects new all-time highs and views BTC as relatively cheap versus gold now.
Gold and Silver: Central bank buying, shifting Wall Street sentiment, and potential policy signals (e.g., gold-backed bonds, Treasury interest) underpin a continued bullish outlook.
Market Liquidity: Bitcoin’s softness is read as a leading indicator of tight liquidity, with possible spillovers to mega-cap tech and broader equities.
Macro and Fed: The guest sees rising odds of renewed balance sheet expansion, yield-curve control, and higher inflation despite official “restrictive” rhetoric.
Institutional Signals: Mentions of JPMorgan’s “monetary debasement trade” framing and BlackRock’s Bitcoin ETF highlight growing mainstream buy-in.
Risks and Opportunities: He flags stagflation risk, AI-driven layoffs pressuring employment, and the need to own scarce assets as a hedge against policy and currency debasement.
Transcript
Special coverage from the New Orleans Investment Conference is brought to you [music] by First Majestic Silver Corp. There's no substitute for silver. Hello and welcome to Soore Financially here from the floor of the New Orleans Investment Conference. I'm Kai Hoffman. I'm the host of this channel and I'm joined by Larry Leart. He's the author of The Big Print. Larry, it's great to have you here in New Orleans. >> Great to be with you, Kai, and nice to see you again. >> It's always great to meet in person. >> Yeah, absolutely. All the way from Germany, right? >> Absolutely. No, it's a it's a it's a long track, but it's worth it because we get a good show. >> Absolutely. It is buzzing. Uh I hear attendance is up 30% yearover year. >> Makes sense. >> Um you know, gold >> doing well. Gold stocks doing really well. Yeah, it's all good. >> Exactly. No, but I want to start somewhere completely different, not talk about gold cuz you posted something yesterday walking through the airport in Boston. Um that you see adoption rates increasing and maybe explain that a little bit. >> Yeah, I it was on my Twitter feed. I just, you know, there's a huge advertisement for the Gemini get SATs back credit card. So, we all know what credit cards are. We all know when you buy with things, you get points and uh Gemini, which is a big broker in the Bitcoin area, has come out with a credit card where when you spend, they give you back one or two% some number in SATs. Satoshi's the smallest unit of a bitcoin. So, I thought that was interesting. And, you know, here we are in a major airport with a huge sign. So, it would imply to me that, you know, hey, maybe this thing's kind of catching on. there more and more people uh interested in it. So I I found it just it was an interesting data point. You know, two three four five years ago, the odds of that happening would have been zero, right? I mean, nobody most people didn't even know what Bitcoin was. So >> yeah. And you said Gemini is a legit provider. Like >> Gemini is a very legit provider. They are they're one of the largest brokerage firms in New York. They were the one that was founded by the Winklevi twins. And uh yeah, so they they're big holders of Bitcoin, big supporters of Bitcoin. So yes, Gemini is is really a high quality. The reason I'm asking cuz I was standing at the luggage belt at the airport as well and I saw an advertisement for Texcoin >> and they were advertising with a chart saying, "Hey, we've we're already up 10,000% buy us now." >> Right. Right. Right. >> What do you make of that cuz that always leaves a fishy taste in my mouth. >> Yeah. Right. Well, so it's and I'm really glad you asked that question because it it makes a point that I try to make in all of my interviews and in general and speaking about quote unquote cryptocurrency. Um, in my view, everything in the crypto world that isn't Bitcoin is a scam, literally. Uh, I have a name for them. I call them shitcoins. And, and the reason is that all of those coins are pre-mined by one individual person. And they have policies where they can issue more coins over time. And the one thing that makes Bitcoin unique and different from all of those other cryptocurrencies, Dogecoin, Ethereum, you name it, is that it has a predetermined supply limit of 21 million. It's an mathematical algorithm that cannot be um um you know um changed in any way, shape, or form unless a majority of the users vote for it. And that's never going to happen. So, you know what? But what's happened is just as you know, Sam Bankman Freed created his his coin and and other people have created coins and many of them then fail. Um, somebody in Texas apparently decided, hey, you know what? Texas needs to have a cryptocurrency coin. I'm going to found it. Um, and of course, he had been involved with some other coins that had failed before this. And so, he's now created Texcoin. He's trying to get all these businesses in Texas to accept Texcoin. And it really it's just it's a fake, >> you know, it's a it's a complete fake. And you know, he's managed to promote it enough that maybe it has gone up 10,000 when he pre-mined it and issued it to himself. And of course, he'll sell into it and make a ton of money, but you know, it's going to end in tears because there's no limit to the number of coins that he can produce and he will produce more over time. So, and it really angers me because when you look at Bitcoin, it actually is a unique technological development. the you know the people who invented or the person who invented it Satoshi or the group of people we call Satoshi discovered and invented something that's unique. It's like discovering the printing press or the airplane. They created digital scarcity. True immutable provable digital scarcity. That's what makes Bitcoin different from all of these other coins. And a lot of gold and silver people look at Bitcoin and they say, "Oh, it's a fraud." Or, "These coins are a fraud." and and they're half right because all these coins are a fraud, but there's this one in the middle, the the the first and the best that's grown to be the largest that actually legitimately is not a fraud. It's it's a it's an algorithmic way of keeping a ledger of money that works. And sadly, all this other noise has turned a lot of people off the signal of this one thing that really is an invention. So, I have a big and there's a big section in my book, there's a chapter in my book on that that Bitcoin is not crypto. >> Yeah. No, it's it's an interesting debate because sort of with the wheat craze back in when was that 17 everybody walking around in these psychedelic shirts and I was like I can't invest in this. I can't take it serious. It's >> too crazy. Right. Yeah. Yeah. >> It reminds me a lot of that. I mean just way. >> Yeah. There are parts of crypto that are just horrible and and and so I get it. I get you know if if you're just doing kind of a quick mental map and you look at crypto and you think, "Oh, that's all fraud." And you're right. >> Yeah. >> You're right. But you got to spend the time to look at this one thing that is not that is actually a real technical development. So that's my point. >> Let's wrap our head around valuation a little bit. Bitcoin is taking a dip. Gold as well, but um 106 I believe this morning. I looked it up before you joined us here cuz I wanted to be seemingly knowledgeable. >> Could be going to 101. Yeah. Who knows, >> right? So the point is though, it came down from 120. Like what do you make of the move in in Bitcoin? We'll talk about gold here in a minute as well. >> Yeah. Well, so so Bitcoin and gold are both going up a lot in fiat terms. I mean that you know we'll talk about it I'm sure in a minute when we get to macro but you know the broad theme is that the US government can never stop printing money and therefore macrocurrencies are or I mean um fiat currencies are doomed. Okay so we we know that as a backdrop but um within that gold and bitcoin compete in the sound money space. Gold is analog sound money. Bitcoin is digital sound money. Um gold has a much longer track record. Has a lot of great properties that make it better than Bitcoin in some ways. Bitcoin has some properties that make it better than gold in other ways and the biggest one of which is that it hasn't been fully adopted yet. That we're still in the early adoption phase of Bitcoin even 16 years in. Um right now Bitcoin is I mean if you chart and I'm I have a presentation tomorrow here at the show that I'll be putting on that everyone can watch. You can buy it and see it online at 2:30 or something where I actually chart Bitcoin and gold terms and they zigzag back and forth. There are times when gold takes the lead, there times when Bitcoin takes the lead. Um, however, on a on a on an overall basis, the price of Bitcoin in gold terms is going up and to the right. Now, right now, it's against the lower trend line. So, if you're trying to decide today, if you have a dollar to invest or $1,000 to invest today and you're looking at, I want to make a sound money bet today, um, Bitcoin's actually cheaper today than gold because gold's just gone up quite a bit and Bitcoin's actually been relatively flat for a while. So, but that situation could and probably will reverse. Um, but personally, I've actually used that opportunity to sell some of my gold stocks. I have gold stocks that are up 200 400%. Um, and they maybe are becoming more fairly valued. I think they're deeply undervalued. And so, I've sold a few of those and I've used them to actually buy Bitcoin today at 10 and something, which a lot of people would say, well, that's awfully expensive. But, as you'll see in my presentation tomorrow, there's a model that shows kind of the price of Bitcoin over time and as its adoption curve continues. And it shows that we're going to much much higher prices. And that's a whole that's a discussion unto itself called the power law. I don't know if you want to go there or not. We can. >> No, it's like I want to talk more about valuation of Bitcoin versus like tech stocks because the correlation there a lot of people are saying, well, Bitcoin is more. >> That's a great point. So, so Bitcoin and tech stocks are somewhat correlated and and you know the thing the thing I actually think the Bitcoin price is telling us right now is there's not enough liquidity in the system. I mean, Bitcoin and crypto are a really early indicator of liquidity, quote unquote, in the system. >> Um, and so when liquidity is tight, they tend to get hit harder than gold. I mean, the other thing you'll see on my Bitcoin gold chart tomorrow is that gold is much more stable over time. And gold holders are not fickle. You don't buy gold and sell it the next day. Whereas crypto people, they're trading the all the time, right? And so um when liquidity can just there's a certain piece of the crypto bid and the Bitcoin bid that's liquiditydriven. And so in my view, you know, the fact that Bitcoin is actually soft right now makes me wonder if maybe we're going to some of the Mag 7 and the tech stocks are going to get soft. It also makes me wonder if just overall the stock market's going to get soft. It also kind of we haven't gone here yet on macro, but also kind of dovetales with some of the things we just saw over the weekend where, you know, the sofa rate has blown out and the standing repo facility got accessed very quickly and and aggressively. And so, you know, I've always said we're going to have another big print. The Fed was s shrinking its balance sheet until this last Fed meeting when they pivoted and said, "Well, we're stopping the shrinkage as of December one, December 1." And then they also even went so far as to say, "And we will probably have to start growing again." Well, there's no way that that's not QE. Yeah. >> And QE is money printing. And and frankly, I think all of that was smelled by gold earlier this year. I mean, gold was up into the right most of the year. And then in September, it really took off as we all know. And uh it's just been on a a tear. I mean, you know, from mid 3000s. Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves because you touched on a couple things I want to follow up with the liquidity cycle with what the Fed actually said last week cuz I think we talked about it before as well cuz we were joking about it. Well, we said QT was $5 billion a month based on the bill of the trillions of on the balance sheet. It's nothing right now. We're giving people four four-week lead time that we're ending QT might recycle some of the money. >> Actually, it was actually five of the treasuries and 25 of the of the agencies and they're they're taking both of them down and they're and as things return in the agencies, they're going to buy treasuries. So, >> yeah. >> So, yeah, I mean they the the Fed realizes that monetary conditions are tight very clearly and they've said as much, you know. So, >> yeah, restrictive to a degree when it comes to hiring. >> Well, you know, it's funny. Isn't it funny that he calls it restrictive? And yet, and here he is. He's cutting rates. And if you really were an old stool vocarian hawk, you would ask yourself, "Okay, hang on. Let me let me see if I got this right." Stock market's at record highs. Gold just hit record highs. Bitcoin was recently very close to a record high or hit a record high like 3 weeks ago. Um, silver's at record highs. Just broke through 50, right? Employment, yeah, maybe a little mushy but not falling apart. And the Fed's cutting rates, huh? You know, what's that all about? Right. And and I think the reason they're doing it is that they understand that behind the scenes, you know, the debt markets are are creaking. You know, they're having they're having distress. >> Well, everybody's saying, well, the mortgage market needs it, right? The subprime we're seeing the subprime auto lenders struggling. >> That's right. You're seeing Yes. You did see some big blow blowups there. You know, first brands andricolor and Yeah. So, so you've seen that. You've also seen, you know, a lot of political noise around it. I mean, it's not very often that you get the president of the United States calling the Federal Reserve chairman a >> right? And calling him too late Powell. Yeah. And then taking him over to the construction project and dressing him down for spending so much on the new building. And, you know, and then you've got Bent saying, you know, interest rates are way too high. And then you've got the newest Fed governor, Steven Moran, saying interest rates should come down, you know, couple hundred basis points. I mean, Trump himself said they should come down 300 basis points to 1%. you know, so I mean it's you've really got a lot of political pressure on the Fed right now. And I watched the last conference and I saw Powell come out and boy, I I thought he really looked both nervous and beat up in the very beginning. His body language and his voice, >> they didn't exude confidence. >> He seems more fragile these days. >> I would That's a That's a good description. And and you know, my sense is if you're him, you can't wait for May to arrive. You know what I mean? Because his term ends in May, as we all Yeah, but he could still be involved. I've been hearing I think Danielle mentioned it in another interview. >> He he actually technically has the right to stay on the board, but the history generally has shown that when when you're not chairman anymore, you leave the board. And my my sense is that's what he'll do. And he'll want to do that to be frank. Why would you stay involved? >> Why would you stay involved? I mean, >> he is just hoping he can get to May without damaging his reputation any further and say, "Hey, I did my job on my watch. Good luck, boys. It's your it's your problem now." >> Like, why would he care about his reputation? Maybe let's get a little philos philosophical like because he'll get cushy jobs at any of the banks if he wants them. >> Right. So, so he's, you know, so he's worth hundred billion dollars. You know, he's a private equity guy. This is the the capstone of his career. You know, Princeton University gave him the, you know, the alumni award of the year two years ago for what he did in the GFC or not the GFC at the, you know, in the COVID crisis. >> Um, you know, he's got a big ego. I mean, you have to kind of to do that job. He was stupid to take the second. >> He's not doing it for the money, I'll tell you that. No, he's he's got enough money. That's not the reason. Um, you know, he's he's a tool of the establishment and he wants to leave the the system intact and for everybody to say he was a responsible steward of the monetary supply. I mean, we know for a fact because he stated it that his hero is Paul Vulker, right? Paul Vulker, you know, cured the inflation of the 70s by taking rates to 20%. Nearly bankrupted my father. uh you know and but but Vulker could do that because interest you know the debt to GDP at the time was only 35%. Now it's 124%. You can't do that now. But you know what he was hoping was that he could get out the door without things breaking before he leaves. And it's funny my personal view is that there's karma in the world and I don't think he's going to make it. [laughter] I mean he's hoping to get out of there by May without having to really seriously pivot and we'll see. >> We'll see. Maybe he will, maybe he won't. I don't know. Yeah, there's match dissent actually within the governor just getting louder and he even said that right you know it's it's interesting I mean you know in his own defense he has tried to be as transparent as he can be he said look the risk to both I mean he he kind he knows he's trapped okay he he absolutely knows he's trapped he knows that the system requires more liquidity more money more money printing more inflation or it's going to implode he knows that but he also knows that he hasn't really solved the inflation problem inflation's still 2.9 nine, you know, CPI 3% or higher. And it's really higher than that because it's measured wrong. So, >> so, you know, but he but he says that to his credit in the, you know, he says, well, there are significant risks to the inflation mandate, but don't worry, we can cover those. I'm not sure how. And there are significant risks to the employment mandate because they when they restated the employment numbers and Fed fired the woman who was keeping score, you know, that showed that the employment is kind of soft. And, you know, it really is as as I think we've all been talking, it's a tale of two cities, tale of two economies. I mean, the upper third of the country in America, it's doing okay. >> Yeah. >> You know, I mean, I would say great, but I would say okay. You know, jobs, incomes, food on the table. The bottom two-thirds of America, they're hurting. They're really hurting bad. >> And probably one of the most scary things that I saw that I thought was just, you know, imp has implications going forward was recently a lot of big companies did white collar layoffs based on AI. >> And I was like, whoa, that's >> Amazon 30,000. >> Yeah. Exactly. I mean there was Amazon, I think Apple, there were sever a number of companies and I thought to myself, this isn't good, right? I mean because if AI starts to take jobs and makes the employment picture worse, >> that only compounds the problem. Do you know what I mean? Because if we get I mean the you know I mean I have long maintained that this decade is going to look like the 70s. The 70s was a decade of uh of stagflation which means high inflation but it's punk economy. I think this is going to be the 70s on steroids. inflation's going to be even worse and the economy is going to be even more at risk and punk on on the downside. So that's a very very tough cocktail for the Fed to figure out how to drink. I mean I I you know honestly I wouldn't want to be in their shoes. I mean I I don't know what you know >> but but I think what we can see and the reason why I think gold and silver have had such a stupendous run this year um and I believe this will continue by the way. Some people think well now it's oversell it. No, I think we'll continue is that I think that in May we know that a Trump appointee will be a much more dovish Fed chairman that the Treasury under Bent will be much more aggressive, you know, at doing he's he's kind of doing shadow QE. I mean, he's selling short-term bills to buy long-term bonds. You know, it's a twist, right, to keep the interest rates down. And you know I fully expect that QE yield curve control balance sheet growth all those things are in our future and all those things imply much higher inflation. So >> what do you make of the dollar in that connect in in that regard because the Dixie touching 100 against the other currencies right now. >> Yeah. Yeah. The Dixie. So So I'm not really a I'm not I'm kind of an agnostic agnostic person on the dollar. I know Brent Johnson really was a good friend. I I I I generally speaking agree with his dollar milkshake theory that it's a crummy currency. but all the others are worse. Um, and but I don't I don't really watch it that much because to me it's not the important number. I mean the dollar remember the dollar index is measuring against the yen which is a piece of You know the euro it's a piece of The the pound I mean a bunch of currencies you know yuan etc. So it's kind of like they're all fiat currencies. They're all flawed. They're all being diluted. So how much this one's being diluted versus the others it's it's not that big a deal to me. I watch the dollar compared to gold. I watch the dollar compared to Bitcoin because those are two currencies or one's a definitely a currency gold and Bitcoin is an emerging currency. That's I think that's the right way to view it. It's not a currency yet, but it it's going there that that really cannot be controlled or printed by governments. And so when people vote for either gold, silver, or Bitcoin, they're saying, you know, I just don't trust you guys not to dilute my my my dollar. >> Yeah. >> So to me, that's the important issue. >> Yeah. Yeah, it was an interesting move just from 95 or 96 back to 100. So, a lot of trust trust seemingly coming back. >> Yeah, you know, Lynn Lynn and others Lyn Alden and some others have some views on that. Luke Roman have some views on why that happened. I mean, there are people who are better monetary scholars than I am who did well and and you know, Joseph Wang and all these people on Twitter, there are people who really get into the weeds on all this stuff. And there's some arguments that based on the moves they're making, one would expect the dollar to be stronger than it has been. Okay. Yeah, >> I mean, you know, connecting all the dots, it's it's it's it's difficult. It's hard to know. You push here, what happens over there. But I think broadly speaking, the big, you know, all we got to do is get one big thing right. And that one big thing is they will continue to print money. That will lead to inflation. That implies that owning things they can't print is the right way to protect yourself, right? >> Absolutely. >> Which we all do. >> Yeah. Perfect segue back to gold. We need to talk about it. I love gold. what where I want to come from is the mentality the mindset actually around gold is changing well >> you've heard it before Morgan Stanley all the others are changing changing their tunes like it should be 60 2020 for example in the portfolio >> um which I like the the recent moving gold I sort of attribute that to the momentum or mindset change >> it's it's yeah it's a great thing to bring up it's a combination of things Kai in my view first of all let's not forget central banks have been aggressively on the bid for a long time so that's kind of the first big move but I think the Second big move, I think this more recent move, it could be a lot of things. Andy Sheckchman and others suggest that maybe the US Treasury's on the bid for gold. Let's talk about that for a minute. So when they came in, Trump and Bant said, "We're going to audit Fort Knox." What happened? >> It's been awfully quiet on that front. >> It's been awfully quiet on that front. Here's my guess. They got read in. They got read in that some of the gold's there, but not all the gold's there. So maybe some of the bid in gold is the US Treasury on the side buying gold to refill Fort Knox. um an old gold hand told me that Johnson raided it in the 60s in order to support the London gold pool in the 60s. So I don't think they have all the gold. They say they have gold Fort Knox and maybe that's part of the bid, but I think at a broader level there's some other things I think are really big touch points. So JP Morgan recently came out and said that they now have a term for what's going on in gold and Bitcoin and they're calling it the monetary debasement trade. They announced this. They had a big report on it. I think they projected gold at 5,000. Even Jamie Diamond said gold could go to 10,000. Right. And then Muhammad Alan who's a huge institutional investment manager listened to and followed by millions considered very authoritative. >> He's the dean of Cambridge. >> Yeah. Right. Dean of Cambridge now, but he's he ran Aliance. He ran Kalpers. He was at Harvard management. I he's a heavy. And he came out and he said he believes in quote unquote the monetary debasement trade. And so, and you know, you've got guys like Jaime Diamond who was anti-gold for most of his career saying, "Well, I can understand how in this circumstance, you know, gold at five or 10,000 could occur." And so, what you're kind of seeing is just a growing, you know, it's the common knowledge game. I mean, you and I knew this years ago, right? >> Yeah. >> Gold people who've been buying gold for a long time have known it for some time. It was creeping into the mainstream. It's now almost really going mainstream. I mean, it's kind of like, okay, you know, we've got big names. I mean, Ray Dalio saying you got to have 15% in this stuff. Um, you know, guys like Larry Frink, who runs Black Rockck, who was anti- Bitcoin, you know, turning around and saying, "No, we're going to open the first Bitcoin ETF. It's going to be the biggest growing ETF in the most smallest amount of time possible." And I believe Bitcoin is digital gold. Finus said that. I mean, this is a fiat guy. Yeah. Right. So, you know, Scott Bent the other day, he took a shot at Congress. I loved it. He tweeted out and he said something like, you know, congressional Democrats should take note. The Bitcoin network is still working and always keeps on working. It, you know, it can't be closed like our government. You know, note to Democrats, right? I mean, I just thought, okay, that's positive. Steven Moran, the most recent Fed chairman or Fed appointee from Trump, just got a seat on the Fed board. I mean, he was on Twitter a couple years ago when problems would come up in the monetary system and he was tweeting, "Bitcoin fixes this." Yeah. Right. Trump is pro Bitcoin. So, you know, you've kind of got this realization. I mean, Trump told Judy Shelton, who then told Andy Sheckchman that he could see doing a gold back Treasury bond in July, >> 50-year goldback bond, >> 50-year goldback bond in July of 2026 on the 250th anniversary of the country. I mean, these are all signposts, right? These are all signals. You know, Scott Bassant, who's the Treasury Secretary, when he became Treasury Secretary, he came in, he was interviewed, and he said, you know, he he identified and he said it kind of subtly, but he said, I believe we have trouble with our monetary system and that some kind of a restructuring or reset might be necessary, that something that would look like Brentton Woods, which is the last time we reset the system in 44. And if that occurs, I want to be at the table. >> Well, that's a big clue. So, you know, now I'm sure your listeners can say, "Okay, Larry, tell us what's going to happen." I don't know what's going to happen. Okay. But what I do know is that governments and other things, they give you clues before things happen. And could we do a gold reset? Yeah, we could. Could we do a gold back bond? Yeah, we could. Could, you know, could Bitcoin could Could the US government start buying Bitcoin and adding to the strategic Bitcoin reserve? We could. I mean, there's a senator pushing for it, Senator Lumis. Will it happen? I don't know. But I but I do know that as the con as the existing system continues to creek and break as we're seeing right now with the sofur blowout and the standing repo blowout and the balance sheet's about to expand. I mean Lori Logan Fed just said that you know Jerome Powell said that he said well because reserves will be shrinking as a percentage of total you know total GDP there's no doubt we will have to start to add to reserves. He just announced he's going to QE again. That's what he said in code. He said it, you know, not not he didn't say we're queuing, but that's what it is. >> And so, you know, it's kind of coming. I mean, I, you know, and and I find this for me it's it's, you know, it's sad, but it's somewhat satisfying because, you know, I wrote a book about it about a [laughter] year ago, and I kind of said, I think this is where we're going, folks. You know, it's going to be a big print. And, you know, we're not at the big print stage. Still small, but you're you're hearing all of these rumblings, and I think it is coming, right? So, >> last question, Larry. You you bet Peter Spina a lunch in Prague. >> I did. >> What was that all about? >> Um >> I know you guys have history. >> Yeah. Well, I love Peter. Um I really do. Peter, you know, it's I had I had lunch with him last time I was there. I was there for a bit Bitcoin show. I think Peter is a wonderful human being. He's a really good guy. Um like kind of like Peter Schiff. Um he does he has a little bit of a blind spot on Bitcoin. I think he thinks that a lot of the people in it are are sleazy. He really hates Sailor. Okay. For whatever reason. Um, and you know, look, I mean, but it's bigger than the people in it. I mean, you know, let's let's assume even Sailor is a bad guy. I mean, I don't think he is, but let's, you know, it doesn't matter. It's it's it's a math protocol. It's a network. Doesn't matter Mike Sailor does or is. Um, and but what I bet Peter Peter was of the view that, you know, next year, a year from now, gold would be much higher. I agree with him. >> 6,000, 8,000, 10,000, all possible. And Bitcoin would be much lower. That, you know, because one of he's looking at the chart right now. The gold guys are pretty happy because you know this year gold I mean calendar year this year gold has beat Bitcoin. Okay, not not 12 months. 12 months are about the same but calendar 2025 gold's ahead of Bitcoin. And he's like that's it. Bitcoin it's over for Bitcoin. Gold's taking its rightful place. It's going to and I said, "Peter, I tell you what, I'll bet you lunch that by, you know, Bitcoin's at new all-time highs by this time next year, you know, at that at that show. I don't know if I'll go to the show or not, but if not, I'll have to send him some money for lunch. But uh uh as I say, Peter's a wonderful guy. He's a very smart gold investor, very good guy. >> So, what would the price targets you bet on? >> Um you know, I can't remember exact price targets. >> No. Well, it would have to be above 125 or six cuz I said it'll be at a new all-time high >> and so will gold. >> Yeah. >> And I think he was take he was of the view that no, it won't just be Yeah. Bitcoin's seen its peak >> and it's it's going it's going down. So So there's no target. I mean, but I would I would give you my and maybe I you know, I can't remember the tweet. I do so much I lose track of But I mean, I if if he'd asked me for a specific number, I would have said, you know, 150 or 200 next year is kind of where I think we'll be. >> Gotcha. >> And we're at, you know, we were at 126, we're at 107, you know. >> Yeah. >> Perfect. No, Larry, really appreciate you joining us here in New Orleans. Where can we send our audience where can we find your book? >> So, as you know, I'm on Twitter, uh, just under my name, Lawrence Leart. And then the other probably uh best way to uh find me is on my website uh EMA2 E equity management associates my company have free free newsletters on there and then if you're interested in the book um no publishers picked it up it's pretty edgy. Have you read it? I think I sent it to you. I know I know you've read it. >> It's pretty edgy. So no publishers picked it up. It's only available on Amazon. So hard copy, soft copy, digital copy and audio. Fantastic. >> Uh just just Google it on Amazon. You'll find it. The big print. Okay. >> Fantastic. Larry appreciate it. Thanks so much for coming on. Thank you so much for tuning in to sore financially here from the floor of the New Orleans Investment Conference. If you enjoyed this conversation, hit that like and subscribe button. We tremendously appreciate it and we'll be back with lots more here from New Orleans.
GOLD: This Is How the Next Reset Begins | Lawrence Lepard
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Special coverage from the New Orleans Investment Conference is brought to you [music] by First Majestic Silver Corp. There's no substitute for silver. Hello and welcome to Soore Financially here from the floor of the New Orleans Investment Conference. I'm Kai Hoffman. I'm the host of this channel and I'm joined by Larry Leart. He's the author of The Big Print. Larry, it's great to have you here in New Orleans. >> Great to be with you, Kai, and nice to see you again. >> It's always great to meet in person. >> Yeah, absolutely. All the way from Germany, right? >> Absolutely. No, it's a it's a it's a long track, but it's worth it because we get a good show. >> Absolutely. It is buzzing. Uh I hear attendance is up 30% yearover year. >> Makes sense. >> Um you know, gold >> doing well. Gold stocks doing really well. Yeah, it's all good. >> Exactly. No, but I want to start somewhere completely different, not talk about gold cuz you posted something yesterday walking through the airport in Boston. Um that you see adoption rates increasing and maybe explain that a little bit. >> Yeah, I it was on my Twitter feed. I just, you know, there's a huge advertisement for the Gemini get SATs back credit card. So, we all know what credit cards are. We all know when you buy with things, you get points and uh Gemini, which is a big broker in the Bitcoin area, has come out with a credit card where when you spend, they give you back one or two% some number in SATs. Satoshi's the smallest unit of a bitcoin. So, I thought that was interesting. And, you know, here we are in a major airport with a huge sign. So, it would imply to me that, you know, hey, maybe this thing's kind of catching on. there more and more people uh interested in it. So I I found it just it was an interesting data point. You know, two three four five years ago, the odds of that happening would have been zero, right? I mean, nobody most people didn't even know what Bitcoin was. So >> yeah. And you said Gemini is a legit provider. Like >> Gemini is a very legit provider. They are they're one of the largest brokerage firms in New York. They were the one that was founded by the Winklevi twins. And uh yeah, so they they're big holders of Bitcoin, big supporters of Bitcoin. So yes, Gemini is is really a high quality. The reason I'm asking cuz I was standing at the luggage belt at the airport as well and I saw an advertisement for Texcoin >> and they were advertising with a chart saying, "Hey, we've we're already up 10,000% buy us now." >> Right. Right. Right. >> What do you make of that cuz that always leaves a fishy taste in my mouth. >> Yeah. Right. Well, so it's and I'm really glad you asked that question because it it makes a point that I try to make in all of my interviews and in general and speaking about quote unquote cryptocurrency. Um, in my view, everything in the crypto world that isn't Bitcoin is a scam, literally. Uh, I have a name for them. I call them shitcoins. And, and the reason is that all of those coins are pre-mined by one individual person. And they have policies where they can issue more coins over time. And the one thing that makes Bitcoin unique and different from all of those other cryptocurrencies, Dogecoin, Ethereum, you name it, is that it has a predetermined supply limit of 21 million. It's an mathematical algorithm that cannot be um um you know um changed in any way, shape, or form unless a majority of the users vote for it. And that's never going to happen. So, you know what? But what's happened is just as you know, Sam Bankman Freed created his his coin and and other people have created coins and many of them then fail. Um, somebody in Texas apparently decided, hey, you know what? Texas needs to have a cryptocurrency coin. I'm going to found it. Um, and of course, he had been involved with some other coins that had failed before this. And so, he's now created Texcoin. He's trying to get all these businesses in Texas to accept Texcoin. And it really it's just it's a fake, >> you know, it's a it's a complete fake. And you know, he's managed to promote it enough that maybe it has gone up 10,000 when he pre-mined it and issued it to himself. And of course, he'll sell into it and make a ton of money, but you know, it's going to end in tears because there's no limit to the number of coins that he can produce and he will produce more over time. So, and it really angers me because when you look at Bitcoin, it actually is a unique technological development. the you know the people who invented or the person who invented it Satoshi or the group of people we call Satoshi discovered and invented something that's unique. It's like discovering the printing press or the airplane. They created digital scarcity. True immutable provable digital scarcity. That's what makes Bitcoin different from all of these other coins. And a lot of gold and silver people look at Bitcoin and they say, "Oh, it's a fraud." Or, "These coins are a fraud." and and they're half right because all these coins are a fraud, but there's this one in the middle, the the the first and the best that's grown to be the largest that actually legitimately is not a fraud. It's it's a it's an algorithmic way of keeping a ledger of money that works. And sadly, all this other noise has turned a lot of people off the signal of this one thing that really is an invention. So, I have a big and there's a big section in my book, there's a chapter in my book on that that Bitcoin is not crypto. >> Yeah. No, it's it's an interesting debate because sort of with the wheat craze back in when was that 17 everybody walking around in these psychedelic shirts and I was like I can't invest in this. I can't take it serious. It's >> too crazy. Right. Yeah. Yeah. >> It reminds me a lot of that. I mean just way. >> Yeah. There are parts of crypto that are just horrible and and and so I get it. I get you know if if you're just doing kind of a quick mental map and you look at crypto and you think, "Oh, that's all fraud." And you're right. >> Yeah. >> You're right. But you got to spend the time to look at this one thing that is not that is actually a real technical development. So that's my point. >> Let's wrap our head around valuation a little bit. Bitcoin is taking a dip. Gold as well, but um 106 I believe this morning. I looked it up before you joined us here cuz I wanted to be seemingly knowledgeable. >> Could be going to 101. Yeah. Who knows, >> right? So the point is though, it came down from 120. Like what do you make of the move in in Bitcoin? We'll talk about gold here in a minute as well. >> Yeah. Well, so so Bitcoin and gold are both going up a lot in fiat terms. I mean that you know we'll talk about it I'm sure in a minute when we get to macro but you know the broad theme is that the US government can never stop printing money and therefore macrocurrencies are or I mean um fiat currencies are doomed. Okay so we we know that as a backdrop but um within that gold and bitcoin compete in the sound money space. Gold is analog sound money. Bitcoin is digital sound money. Um gold has a much longer track record. Has a lot of great properties that make it better than Bitcoin in some ways. Bitcoin has some properties that make it better than gold in other ways and the biggest one of which is that it hasn't been fully adopted yet. That we're still in the early adoption phase of Bitcoin even 16 years in. Um right now Bitcoin is I mean if you chart and I'm I have a presentation tomorrow here at the show that I'll be putting on that everyone can watch. You can buy it and see it online at 2:30 or something where I actually chart Bitcoin and gold terms and they zigzag back and forth. There are times when gold takes the lead, there times when Bitcoin takes the lead. Um, however, on a on a on an overall basis, the price of Bitcoin in gold terms is going up and to the right. Now, right now, it's against the lower trend line. So, if you're trying to decide today, if you have a dollar to invest or $1,000 to invest today and you're looking at, I want to make a sound money bet today, um, Bitcoin's actually cheaper today than gold because gold's just gone up quite a bit and Bitcoin's actually been relatively flat for a while. So, but that situation could and probably will reverse. Um, but personally, I've actually used that opportunity to sell some of my gold stocks. I have gold stocks that are up 200 400%. Um, and they maybe are becoming more fairly valued. I think they're deeply undervalued. And so, I've sold a few of those and I've used them to actually buy Bitcoin today at 10 and something, which a lot of people would say, well, that's awfully expensive. But, as you'll see in my presentation tomorrow, there's a model that shows kind of the price of Bitcoin over time and as its adoption curve continues. And it shows that we're going to much much higher prices. And that's a whole that's a discussion unto itself called the power law. I don't know if you want to go there or not. We can. >> No, it's like I want to talk more about valuation of Bitcoin versus like tech stocks because the correlation there a lot of people are saying, well, Bitcoin is more. >> That's a great point. So, so Bitcoin and tech stocks are somewhat correlated and and you know the thing the thing I actually think the Bitcoin price is telling us right now is there's not enough liquidity in the system. I mean, Bitcoin and crypto are a really early indicator of liquidity, quote unquote, in the system. >> Um, and so when liquidity is tight, they tend to get hit harder than gold. I mean, the other thing you'll see on my Bitcoin gold chart tomorrow is that gold is much more stable over time. And gold holders are not fickle. You don't buy gold and sell it the next day. Whereas crypto people, they're trading the all the time, right? And so um when liquidity can just there's a certain piece of the crypto bid and the Bitcoin bid that's liquiditydriven. And so in my view, you know, the fact that Bitcoin is actually soft right now makes me wonder if maybe we're going to some of the Mag 7 and the tech stocks are going to get soft. It also makes me wonder if just overall the stock market's going to get soft. It also kind of we haven't gone here yet on macro, but also kind of dovetales with some of the things we just saw over the weekend where, you know, the sofa rate has blown out and the standing repo facility got accessed very quickly and and aggressively. And so, you know, I've always said we're going to have another big print. The Fed was s shrinking its balance sheet until this last Fed meeting when they pivoted and said, "Well, we're stopping the shrinkage as of December one, December 1." And then they also even went so far as to say, "And we will probably have to start growing again." Well, there's no way that that's not QE. Yeah. >> And QE is money printing. And and frankly, I think all of that was smelled by gold earlier this year. I mean, gold was up into the right most of the year. And then in September, it really took off as we all know. And uh it's just been on a a tear. I mean, you know, from mid 3000s. Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves because you touched on a couple things I want to follow up with the liquidity cycle with what the Fed actually said last week cuz I think we talked about it before as well cuz we were joking about it. Well, we said QT was $5 billion a month based on the bill of the trillions of on the balance sheet. It's nothing right now. We're giving people four four-week lead time that we're ending QT might recycle some of the money. >> Actually, it was actually five of the treasuries and 25 of the of the agencies and they're they're taking both of them down and they're and as things return in the agencies, they're going to buy treasuries. So, >> yeah. >> So, yeah, I mean they the the Fed realizes that monetary conditions are tight very clearly and they've said as much, you know. So, >> yeah, restrictive to a degree when it comes to hiring. >> Well, you know, it's funny. Isn't it funny that he calls it restrictive? And yet, and here he is. He's cutting rates. And if you really were an old stool vocarian hawk, you would ask yourself, "Okay, hang on. Let me let me see if I got this right." Stock market's at record highs. Gold just hit record highs. Bitcoin was recently very close to a record high or hit a record high like 3 weeks ago. Um, silver's at record highs. Just broke through 50, right? Employment, yeah, maybe a little mushy but not falling apart. And the Fed's cutting rates, huh? You know, what's that all about? Right. And and I think the reason they're doing it is that they understand that behind the scenes, you know, the debt markets are are creaking. You know, they're having they're having distress. >> Well, everybody's saying, well, the mortgage market needs it, right? The subprime we're seeing the subprime auto lenders struggling. >> That's right. You're seeing Yes. You did see some big blow blowups there. You know, first brands andricolor and Yeah. So, so you've seen that. You've also seen, you know, a lot of political noise around it. I mean, it's not very often that you get the president of the United States calling the Federal Reserve chairman a >> right? And calling him too late Powell. Yeah. And then taking him over to the construction project and dressing him down for spending so much on the new building. And, you know, and then you've got Bent saying, you know, interest rates are way too high. And then you've got the newest Fed governor, Steven Moran, saying interest rates should come down, you know, couple hundred basis points. I mean, Trump himself said they should come down 300 basis points to 1%. you know, so I mean it's you've really got a lot of political pressure on the Fed right now. And I watched the last conference and I saw Powell come out and boy, I I thought he really looked both nervous and beat up in the very beginning. His body language and his voice, >> they didn't exude confidence. >> He seems more fragile these days. >> I would That's a That's a good description. And and you know, my sense is if you're him, you can't wait for May to arrive. You know what I mean? Because his term ends in May, as we all Yeah, but he could still be involved. I've been hearing I think Danielle mentioned it in another interview. >> He he actually technically has the right to stay on the board, but the history generally has shown that when when you're not chairman anymore, you leave the board. And my my sense is that's what he'll do. And he'll want to do that to be frank. Why would you stay involved? >> Why would you stay involved? I mean, >> he is just hoping he can get to May without damaging his reputation any further and say, "Hey, I did my job on my watch. Good luck, boys. It's your it's your problem now." >> Like, why would he care about his reputation? Maybe let's get a little philos philosophical like because he'll get cushy jobs at any of the banks if he wants them. >> Right. So, so he's, you know, so he's worth hundred billion dollars. You know, he's a private equity guy. This is the the capstone of his career. You know, Princeton University gave him the, you know, the alumni award of the year two years ago for what he did in the GFC or not the GFC at the, you know, in the COVID crisis. >> Um, you know, he's got a big ego. I mean, you have to kind of to do that job. He was stupid to take the second. >> He's not doing it for the money, I'll tell you that. No, he's he's got enough money. That's not the reason. Um, you know, he's he's a tool of the establishment and he wants to leave the the system intact and for everybody to say he was a responsible steward of the monetary supply. I mean, we know for a fact because he stated it that his hero is Paul Vulker, right? Paul Vulker, you know, cured the inflation of the 70s by taking rates to 20%. Nearly bankrupted my father. uh you know and but but Vulker could do that because interest you know the debt to GDP at the time was only 35%. Now it's 124%. You can't do that now. But you know what he was hoping was that he could get out the door without things breaking before he leaves. And it's funny my personal view is that there's karma in the world and I don't think he's going to make it. [laughter] I mean he's hoping to get out of there by May without having to really seriously pivot and we'll see. >> We'll see. Maybe he will, maybe he won't. I don't know. Yeah, there's match dissent actually within the governor just getting louder and he even said that right you know it's it's interesting I mean you know in his own defense he has tried to be as transparent as he can be he said look the risk to both I mean he he kind he knows he's trapped okay he he absolutely knows he's trapped he knows that the system requires more liquidity more money more money printing more inflation or it's going to implode he knows that but he also knows that he hasn't really solved the inflation problem inflation's still 2.9 nine, you know, CPI 3% or higher. And it's really higher than that because it's measured wrong. So, >> so, you know, but he but he says that to his credit in the, you know, he says, well, there are significant risks to the inflation mandate, but don't worry, we can cover those. I'm not sure how. And there are significant risks to the employment mandate because they when they restated the employment numbers and Fed fired the woman who was keeping score, you know, that showed that the employment is kind of soft. And, you know, it really is as as I think we've all been talking, it's a tale of two cities, tale of two economies. I mean, the upper third of the country in America, it's doing okay. >> Yeah. >> You know, I mean, I would say great, but I would say okay. You know, jobs, incomes, food on the table. The bottom two-thirds of America, they're hurting. They're really hurting bad. >> And probably one of the most scary things that I saw that I thought was just, you know, imp has implications going forward was recently a lot of big companies did white collar layoffs based on AI. >> And I was like, whoa, that's >> Amazon 30,000. >> Yeah. Exactly. I mean there was Amazon, I think Apple, there were sever a number of companies and I thought to myself, this isn't good, right? I mean because if AI starts to take jobs and makes the employment picture worse, >> that only compounds the problem. Do you know what I mean? Because if we get I mean the you know I mean I have long maintained that this decade is going to look like the 70s. The 70s was a decade of uh of stagflation which means high inflation but it's punk economy. I think this is going to be the 70s on steroids. inflation's going to be even worse and the economy is going to be even more at risk and punk on on the downside. So that's a very very tough cocktail for the Fed to figure out how to drink. I mean I I you know honestly I wouldn't want to be in their shoes. I mean I I don't know what you know >> but but I think what we can see and the reason why I think gold and silver have had such a stupendous run this year um and I believe this will continue by the way. Some people think well now it's oversell it. No, I think we'll continue is that I think that in May we know that a Trump appointee will be a much more dovish Fed chairman that the Treasury under Bent will be much more aggressive, you know, at doing he's he's kind of doing shadow QE. I mean, he's selling short-term bills to buy long-term bonds. You know, it's a twist, right, to keep the interest rates down. And you know I fully expect that QE yield curve control balance sheet growth all those things are in our future and all those things imply much higher inflation. So >> what do you make of the dollar in that connect in in that regard because the Dixie touching 100 against the other currencies right now. >> Yeah. Yeah. The Dixie. So So I'm not really a I'm not I'm kind of an agnostic agnostic person on the dollar. I know Brent Johnson really was a good friend. I I I I generally speaking agree with his dollar milkshake theory that it's a crummy currency. but all the others are worse. Um, and but I don't I don't really watch it that much because to me it's not the important number. I mean the dollar remember the dollar index is measuring against the yen which is a piece of You know the euro it's a piece of The the pound I mean a bunch of currencies you know yuan etc. So it's kind of like they're all fiat currencies. They're all flawed. They're all being diluted. So how much this one's being diluted versus the others it's it's not that big a deal to me. I watch the dollar compared to gold. I watch the dollar compared to Bitcoin because those are two currencies or one's a definitely a currency gold and Bitcoin is an emerging currency. That's I think that's the right way to view it. It's not a currency yet, but it it's going there that that really cannot be controlled or printed by governments. And so when people vote for either gold, silver, or Bitcoin, they're saying, you know, I just don't trust you guys not to dilute my my my dollar. >> Yeah. >> So to me, that's the important issue. >> Yeah. Yeah, it was an interesting move just from 95 or 96 back to 100. So, a lot of trust trust seemingly coming back. >> Yeah, you know, Lynn Lynn and others Lyn Alden and some others have some views on that. Luke Roman have some views on why that happened. I mean, there are people who are better monetary scholars than I am who did well and and you know, Joseph Wang and all these people on Twitter, there are people who really get into the weeds on all this stuff. And there's some arguments that based on the moves they're making, one would expect the dollar to be stronger than it has been. Okay. Yeah, >> I mean, you know, connecting all the dots, it's it's it's it's difficult. It's hard to know. You push here, what happens over there. But I think broadly speaking, the big, you know, all we got to do is get one big thing right. And that one big thing is they will continue to print money. That will lead to inflation. That implies that owning things they can't print is the right way to protect yourself, right? >> Absolutely. >> Which we all do. >> Yeah. Perfect segue back to gold. We need to talk about it. I love gold. what where I want to come from is the mentality the mindset actually around gold is changing well >> you've heard it before Morgan Stanley all the others are changing changing their tunes like it should be 60 2020 for example in the portfolio >> um which I like the the recent moving gold I sort of attribute that to the momentum or mindset change >> it's it's yeah it's a great thing to bring up it's a combination of things Kai in my view first of all let's not forget central banks have been aggressively on the bid for a long time so that's kind of the first big move but I think the Second big move, I think this more recent move, it could be a lot of things. Andy Sheckchman and others suggest that maybe the US Treasury's on the bid for gold. Let's talk about that for a minute. So when they came in, Trump and Bant said, "We're going to audit Fort Knox." What happened? >> It's been awfully quiet on that front. >> It's been awfully quiet on that front. Here's my guess. They got read in. They got read in that some of the gold's there, but not all the gold's there. So maybe some of the bid in gold is the US Treasury on the side buying gold to refill Fort Knox. um an old gold hand told me that Johnson raided it in the 60s in order to support the London gold pool in the 60s. So I don't think they have all the gold. They say they have gold Fort Knox and maybe that's part of the bid, but I think at a broader level there's some other things I think are really big touch points. So JP Morgan recently came out and said that they now have a term for what's going on in gold and Bitcoin and they're calling it the monetary debasement trade. They announced this. They had a big report on it. I think they projected gold at 5,000. Even Jamie Diamond said gold could go to 10,000. Right. And then Muhammad Alan who's a huge institutional investment manager listened to and followed by millions considered very authoritative. >> He's the dean of Cambridge. >> Yeah. Right. Dean of Cambridge now, but he's he ran Aliance. He ran Kalpers. He was at Harvard management. I he's a heavy. And he came out and he said he believes in quote unquote the monetary debasement trade. And so, and you know, you've got guys like Jaime Diamond who was anti-gold for most of his career saying, "Well, I can understand how in this circumstance, you know, gold at five or 10,000 could occur." And so, what you're kind of seeing is just a growing, you know, it's the common knowledge game. I mean, you and I knew this years ago, right? >> Yeah. >> Gold people who've been buying gold for a long time have known it for some time. It was creeping into the mainstream. It's now almost really going mainstream. I mean, it's kind of like, okay, you know, we've got big names. I mean, Ray Dalio saying you got to have 15% in this stuff. Um, you know, guys like Larry Frink, who runs Black Rockck, who was anti- Bitcoin, you know, turning around and saying, "No, we're going to open the first Bitcoin ETF. It's going to be the biggest growing ETF in the most smallest amount of time possible." And I believe Bitcoin is digital gold. Finus said that. I mean, this is a fiat guy. Yeah. Right. So, you know, Scott Bent the other day, he took a shot at Congress. I loved it. He tweeted out and he said something like, you know, congressional Democrats should take note. The Bitcoin network is still working and always keeps on working. It, you know, it can't be closed like our government. You know, note to Democrats, right? I mean, I just thought, okay, that's positive. Steven Moran, the most recent Fed chairman or Fed appointee from Trump, just got a seat on the Fed board. I mean, he was on Twitter a couple years ago when problems would come up in the monetary system and he was tweeting, "Bitcoin fixes this." Yeah. Right. Trump is pro Bitcoin. So, you know, you've kind of got this realization. I mean, Trump told Judy Shelton, who then told Andy Sheckchman that he could see doing a gold back Treasury bond in July, >> 50-year goldback bond, >> 50-year goldback bond in July of 2026 on the 250th anniversary of the country. I mean, these are all signposts, right? These are all signals. You know, Scott Bassant, who's the Treasury Secretary, when he became Treasury Secretary, he came in, he was interviewed, and he said, you know, he he identified and he said it kind of subtly, but he said, I believe we have trouble with our monetary system and that some kind of a restructuring or reset might be necessary, that something that would look like Brentton Woods, which is the last time we reset the system in 44. And if that occurs, I want to be at the table. >> Well, that's a big clue. So, you know, now I'm sure your listeners can say, "Okay, Larry, tell us what's going to happen." I don't know what's going to happen. Okay. But what I do know is that governments and other things, they give you clues before things happen. And could we do a gold reset? Yeah, we could. Could we do a gold back bond? Yeah, we could. Could, you know, could Bitcoin could Could the US government start buying Bitcoin and adding to the strategic Bitcoin reserve? We could. I mean, there's a senator pushing for it, Senator Lumis. Will it happen? I don't know. But I but I do know that as the con as the existing system continues to creek and break as we're seeing right now with the sofur blowout and the standing repo blowout and the balance sheet's about to expand. I mean Lori Logan Fed just said that you know Jerome Powell said that he said well because reserves will be shrinking as a percentage of total you know total GDP there's no doubt we will have to start to add to reserves. He just announced he's going to QE again. That's what he said in code. He said it, you know, not not he didn't say we're queuing, but that's what it is. >> And so, you know, it's kind of coming. I mean, I, you know, and and I find this for me it's it's, you know, it's sad, but it's somewhat satisfying because, you know, I wrote a book about it about a [laughter] year ago, and I kind of said, I think this is where we're going, folks. You know, it's going to be a big print. And, you know, we're not at the big print stage. Still small, but you're you're hearing all of these rumblings, and I think it is coming, right? So, >> last question, Larry. You you bet Peter Spina a lunch in Prague. >> I did. >> What was that all about? >> Um >> I know you guys have history. >> Yeah. Well, I love Peter. Um I really do. Peter, you know, it's I had I had lunch with him last time I was there. I was there for a bit Bitcoin show. I think Peter is a wonderful human being. He's a really good guy. Um like kind of like Peter Schiff. Um he does he has a little bit of a blind spot on Bitcoin. I think he thinks that a lot of the people in it are are sleazy. He really hates Sailor. Okay. For whatever reason. Um, and you know, look, I mean, but it's bigger than the people in it. I mean, you know, let's let's assume even Sailor is a bad guy. I mean, I don't think he is, but let's, you know, it doesn't matter. It's it's it's a math protocol. It's a network. Doesn't matter Mike Sailor does or is. Um, and but what I bet Peter Peter was of the view that, you know, next year, a year from now, gold would be much higher. I agree with him. >> 6,000, 8,000, 10,000, all possible. And Bitcoin would be much lower. That, you know, because one of he's looking at the chart right now. The gold guys are pretty happy because you know this year gold I mean calendar year this year gold has beat Bitcoin. Okay, not not 12 months. 12 months are about the same but calendar 2025 gold's ahead of Bitcoin. And he's like that's it. Bitcoin it's over for Bitcoin. Gold's taking its rightful place. It's going to and I said, "Peter, I tell you what, I'll bet you lunch that by, you know, Bitcoin's at new all-time highs by this time next year, you know, at that at that show. I don't know if I'll go to the show or not, but if not, I'll have to send him some money for lunch. But uh uh as I say, Peter's a wonderful guy. He's a very smart gold investor, very good guy. >> So, what would the price targets you bet on? >> Um you know, I can't remember exact price targets. >> No. Well, it would have to be above 125 or six cuz I said it'll be at a new all-time high >> and so will gold. >> Yeah. >> And I think he was take he was of the view that no, it won't just be Yeah. Bitcoin's seen its peak >> and it's it's going it's going down. So So there's no target. I mean, but I would I would give you my and maybe I you know, I can't remember the tweet. I do so much I lose track of But I mean, I if if he'd asked me for a specific number, I would have said, you know, 150 or 200 next year is kind of where I think we'll be. >> Gotcha. >> And we're at, you know, we were at 126, we're at 107, you know. >> Yeah. >> Perfect. No, Larry, really appreciate you joining us here in New Orleans. Where can we send our audience where can we find your book? >> So, as you know, I'm on Twitter, uh, just under my name, Lawrence Leart. And then the other probably uh best way to uh find me is on my website uh EMA2 E equity management associates my company have free free newsletters on there and then if you're interested in the book um no publishers picked it up it's pretty edgy. Have you read it? I think I sent it to you. I know I know you've read it. >> It's pretty edgy. So no publishers picked it up. It's only available on Amazon. So hard copy, soft copy, digital copy and audio. Fantastic. >> Uh just just Google it on Amazon. You'll find it. The big print. Okay. >> Fantastic. Larry appreciate it. Thanks so much for coming on. Thank you so much for tuning in to sore financially here from the floor of the New Orleans Investment Conference. If you enjoyed this conversation, hit that like and subscribe button. We tremendously appreciate it and we'll be back with lots more here from New Orleans.