How Jerry Jones Turned the Cowboys Into a Global Brand | The Deal with Alex Rodriguez and Jason…
Summary
Investment Strategy: Jerry Jones emphasizes the importance of passion and risk-taking in business, highlighting how his bold decisions transformed the Dallas Cowboys into a $13 billion franchise.
Business Model Innovation: Jones discusses the shift from traditional sports publicity to a marketing-focused business model that monetizes fan engagement, which was crucial for the financial success of the Cowboys.
Risk Management: Jones shares his experience with financial risk, including borrowing heavily and facing potential failure, but stresses the importance of resilience and learning from past mistakes.
Strategic Partnerships: The Nike deal is highlighted as a key strategic partnership that leveraged the Cowboys' brand, demonstrating the power of innovative marketing and collaboration with major brands.
Ownership Philosophy: Jones views ownership not just as an investment but as a lifelong career and family business, emphasizing the value of personal involvement and decision-making in sports management.
Private Equity in Sports: The discussion touches on the growing role of private equity in the NFL, with Jones advocating for the involvement of minority investors as critical partners in the team's success.
Legacy and Succession: Jones plans for the Cowboys to remain a family business, with his children continuing the legacy, reflecting his long-term vision and commitment to the franchise.
Handling Criticism: Jones embraces criticism as part of the sports industry, using it as motivation to improve and succeed, which he sees as integral to the competitive nature of sports.
Transcript
Bloomberg Audio Studios podcasts, radio, news. All right, so we've taken this show many places, but this is our first time in Dallas at the Star. This is the brainchild of the Jones family, and we're talking to the man himself, Jerry Jones. >> Jerry's my northstar as an owner, and what he's done with this franchise, taking it where he bought it from to where it is today. Pretty incredible. No one's done it better. Literally, no one has built a more valuable sports franchise on the planet. $13 billion is the estimated value of the Dallas Cowboys. Lots of lessons that we're going to learn from Jerry Jones. I can't wait. Let's do it. >> Jerry Jones, thank you so much for having us here in Texas. Well, first of all, I'm proud you are here. We're overlooking the field and uh I'm kind of proud of what's around the field as well with our stars. So, uh uh thanks for coming to the Star. Great to be with both of you. And Alex, so proud to see my neighbor, my old neighbor back here in Dallas. >> That's right. >> So, Alex, I'm going to let you kick it off. >> Yeah. So, you know, Jace, when I um first decided that I wanted to own a team, this is something I've been dreaming about for forever and ever since I was a teenager, but of course, I come from very humble beginnings, but I said, "There's one owner I must talk to, and that's Mr. Jerry Jones." And I made a call to Charlotte. This was around co time. We were taking a run at the Mets. >> Jerry's daughter, Charlotte Jones. >> Charlotte Jones. I said, "Boy, but tell you, maybe in a couple weeks she'll get Mr. Jones on cuz he's very busy." And Charlotte hits me up right back. He Jerry would love to talk to you. How's Wednesday at 2:00? I said done. And I thought it was going to be 15 minutes. And boy, I tell you what, 90 minutes later, I have like pages and pages of notes. And he gave me you gave me the most incredible advice that I'll never forget. And for that, I'm very grateful. So that that call really meant a lot to me. And a lot of what you told me along with what I learned from George Simoners and others that I respect and admire. I think about that as an owner today of the Minnesota Timber and the Minnesota Links. So thank you for that. Well, congratulations and um you know uh the minute that uh you told me you were going to get involved at the ownership level, it just made all the sense in the world. Uh the fact that you had always wanted to be in ownership says it all as well because in my mind there is a connection. It's of passion. It uh you can call it competitiveness. Uh but it's accomplishing things that are hard to do. But you know, A-Rod, you mentioned George >> Steinbruner >> and my early days with the Cowboys, I'd get a nice note and I always look forward to it and it would be from him >> and he would give me I call them my sweet nothings. I put them in a file that I had that for. But it were daily encouragements >> because there was a lot of criticism because of of the way that we bought the Cowboys, changed the coaches out and frankly did a lot of changes. Well, of all the people in the world to be getting those nice encouraging notes that boy stick in there of keep it going. I've got a legacy there. And we, George Stein Bruner, the family, and my family set up a company called Legends. >> And that was, of course, many years later. And I got to meet with him several times as we were talking about Legends. And Legends serves many, many sports, and it serves facilities and the process of really fan engagement. I'll never forget though, >> yeah. Yeah, >> George Stein Bruner told the group when we met, he said, "Uh, I don't need anything written down. You You don't spend any money or time on that contract over there. He and I'll shake hands and we'll have all we need to make this business work." >> So, Jerry, you know, you mentioned you getting into ownership and and a lot that led to that. You know, when Alex calls you and says he's going to, you know, buy into the NBA and the WNBA, no one would doubt that that was a good deal. When you bought the Dallas Cowboys, people thought you were insane. That people thought it was a bad business and that you were overpaying. What gave you the certitude that this was a good deal? >> Well, it it truly was passion. And um just as passion can help you in many aspects of life, I really didn't see those obvious obstacles. >> I just didn't see them. Now you say, "Well, can't you see losing a million dollars a month? Are you blind? What what how much were you drinking when you bought the when you bought the Cowboys?" Well, the point is I looked for ways, and this is common. I looked for ways that were maybe a little ambitious, but I looked for ways to solve every one of those problems. And while there may have been long odds, uh there may have been a little imagination in those ways, I took those problems and I thought I had a solution as to how to address them. That's what you will do when you want to do it real bad. And yes, the cowboys, it was daunting, but the point is that it was always there. the interest in becoming involved and becoming involved in a way that let's say unlike A-Rod, becoming in a way that didn't swing the bat or didn't make the block, which I certainly appreciated as a great fan, but becoming involved in a way that would uh make it better. >> I found no sports franchise anywhere in the world that was making any money. You see, sports had been a great great portrayer of what sports is about. It's called publicity. >> Well, the difference in publicity in my point of view than marketing is that publicity has great audiences. It has great uh if you will interest and can create interest. Marketing is when you take that publicity and you bring it home and set up a plan to monetize some of it and go out and get that and have enough coming back in to go again. That's called a business model. >> Yeah. Well, sports had not only the great passion and the natural instincts of competing and everybody and the appreciation of people that do, but sports had this massive massive publicity and massive of understanding, but yet it had no business model to make it call marketing where you could bring back a little and go again. >> Right? that was totally necessary for me because I couldn't go again. Now, what happened with me was candidly is that the amount of money I had wasn't what was needed. >> But because the NFL and the Cowboys were were really slow, >> we were really down and out financially, frankly. >> Because of that, then the NFL knew they had a problem. The bankers didn't worry about me because they didn't loan anything on the Cowboys. the bankers loaned it on a receivable that I had. And so the approval of me getting through the door and still not having any money left to go buy the general partners that I had agreed under contract to go buy out, but I didn't have the money to go do that. >> So Jay, along those lines, so go back to 1989. You're losing a million dollars per month. Now, I heard you also say that you may have wanted to buy a business that was cash flowing to offset some of those losses. as you think about filling those holes, was that stressful? And what was your strategy? Walk us through that. >> On a personal basis, I had such pride and such an experience in sport uh when I was in college and my senior year at Arkansas, we won the national championship. Well, I had been schooled in selling uh insurance. I could know that leg off the chair selling, but what I hadn't done was been really schooled in financial. And so I thought because I could tell a good story and could borrow all that money that that was the way to go. And so my first year or two out of college, I borrowed more money than you could even count. And my first year out of school, I think my commissions were $30,000. My interest was $150,000 to give you an idea how over my skis I had gotten. It took me years. It took my uh Jean, my wife, getting her purse taken out of her hands and cards, credit cards cut in two. It took the bill players coming. So, I had really uh gotten a lesson in how not to do it as far as buying something. Well, I managed to come through that and it was the greatest education that I'd ever had. Well, then I was very fortunate and got some real finances with the oil and gas business >> after all that buttkicking that I got for getting out over my skis. >> After all of that, to show you how passionate or crazy I was, after going through that of thinking that uh the old financial death had been at Ray, I turned around and bought the Dallas Cowboys. That shows you how much passion was involved. But I remember when we talked, Alex, I said, listen, I said nothing nothing can stand in the way of passion. >> So I think Alex would probably validate this that when he goes to buy a team, part of the advice that he gets is sit, don't make any big moves, no sudden moves, don't get rid of a bunch of people right away. You didn't follow that advice. Basically, the minute you come in, you get rid of this legendary coach. You fired everybody from the guy in announcing the public announcements to the head of publicity and the general manager. Why? What did you see that was so wrong with them that you felt like you immediately had to act? >> You have to assume when you buy something that who you buy it from knows what it's worth like it is. give them credit or certainly their creditors might know they know what the business is. So a big mistake is not to automatically build in know that you've got to change the scenery if you pay what you're going to pay. Assume they're getting top dollar and have taken it when they got your money. Mhm. >> So you have to really go in thinking change >> when it was as dramatically out of celter as the cowboys were. I had to have radical change and I had to do it yesterday. So there was an urgency. You didn't have time to have a good time so to speak. That plus again the fact that I can't emphasize enough. I felt like Hershel Walker running through the line. It was just bouncing off of me. There were all kinds of hurdles that were popping. And of course, where was the bad day? Well, I couldn't have a bad day because I was getting to do something that I'd wanted to do all my life. >> And that ruled the day. >> So, one of the other most seinal deals that that you make is you mentioned Hershel Walker. >> Got rid of him. You traded him. Yeah. um it turns out to be arguably one of the most brilliant trades in in the history of football did not seem that way at the time. Talk us through that decision. >> If you look at uh making change and certainly Hershel Walker was a change, the best player we had and it was well known. Uh, in this particular case, you were kind of new on the block, so you automatically didn't know what you were doing. >> Mhm. >> Always when it's an accomplished name of whether it's sport or otherwise, always when you get a divorce there, it's going to look bad for the one that made the decision. Always. There's no question. If you can't handle that, then don't make the trade. Or if you can't anticipate that, don't make the trade. that's alive and well. But what it caused you to do is not just the tangible uh consideration you got, which at that time were draft picks. >> Uh you didn't have a cap at that time, >> but you had those draft picks and that was the tangible. What those trades did, what those picks did was allow us to use them not only for using them in the draft, but we use them to trade trade. And we did it with I'm not going to say randomness, but we did it with reckless abandon if you want to. It caused you to be more of a player because it was like going to Las Vegas with money in your pocket. And I don't think there's any question that I willing to take risk. In those early days after having acquired the Cowboys, uh, that we built players, built our roster, I think the the ability to cut and shoot was a big deal. I've heard you talk about ambiguity. I think about it from the lens of sports. Jerry, there's some guys that I've played with that are free agents and they don't know when that next check's coming from or where it's coming from. And you create a 300 hitter becomes a 215 hitter. A guy that hits 30 home runs hits 18 home runs because of the nerves. The same is true in business. But you have this ability to not knowing what's going to happen next to perform at a high level. Do you believe that's true? And and where does that come from if it is true? >> Well, I know it's true uh in my situation, but I think it's very true. Uh and some of the greatest people that uh have ever been involved in the professions or business, they don't function as well if they don't know what's going to happen at the end of the week, especially financially. They need to know that so that they can get on with the uh their business of being as excellent as they are. On the other hand, there are some people that the ambiguity that's out there of not knowing what your check is, they're better than if they knew what the check was going to be. >> They're more clever. They're more cunning. They're more They've just got more uh skill and are willing to exert it. I call that tolerance for ambiguity. Tolerance for ambiguity. And the classic, at least known story was the famous riverboat gambler. Charming mustache sitting there. The next card up is going to get him throwed off the boat or he's going to own the boat. Now, that's when he's the best that he is in his life. And of course, he's gotten thrown off that boat before and he's won the boat a few times. The difference is though, I'll bet you not a one of those charming son of a guns didn't know how to swim. >> Now you can play that hand, but you better know how to swim because you're going to get thrown off the boat a little bit. >> You've gotten thrown off the boat >> a little bit. >> I have to. >> I was going to say you too. You guys have been thrown off some boats together. So I I do want to, you know, move ahead a little bit chronologically because one of the ways that you step out is with your deal making. You know, you're you come in, you're part of this club, a club that a lot of people, especially now, want to be a part of. and NFL has its way of doing business. And you at some point decide that you might be able to do this a little bit better. And I'm thinking specifically the Nike deal. Yeah. >> You know, this is a Nike athlete right here. Everybody remembers you and Phil Knight walking out on that field. How does that deal come about? How do you decide to do that knowing that the NFL they've got Reebok, they're good. You decide you can do something better. I had known a great coach named Eddie Sutton and he had told me about Phil Knight as a young man bringing his things to uh where he was coaching in college and selling it out of the trunk that Phil Knight had had that path to where he was. But the thing that was obvious to me was that he took a shoe or he took performance or perspective performance mentally in a shoe and he did such a good job of telling the story with it that he made me think if I could put the shoe on I could run faster. >> Right? And that so hit home with me relative to what sports is about but really can be accentuated. Uh it truly is the story when you see uh a rare player, a rare athlete. There's so much more that's going on there with that rare athlete >> and just the story of what's making him rare comparing him to uh the other players or other competition. I call it one and one is three. >> Mhm. >> And I apply that to everything whether it's a business decision. One in one is three in sports. Not two but three. And it's because that three is imagination. That three is uh putting yourself in in a way having yourself hit the home run or having yourself there when you're uh watching or thinking about it. That area right there is an intangible because it is an intangible. That's where the biggest margins are in business. >> Not down here where everybody's doing it and the engineers are working on it. They've got it whittleled down to right there. This area right here, that imagineering, that imagination part that's makes one and one three is where the margins are and frankly where the glory is. >> I spent my 25 year career with Nike and Phil Knight was just the most amazing partner and it delighted me when you made that move. But my question is, when you come up with that idea at home, you're thinking in the couch or wherever, from the time you call Phil Knight, how long did it take? And how do those conversations go? Are you pitching your idea of why this is a great marriage? How does that go? If you can give us a little color. >> I visited with him. Uh my wife Jane and son Jerry u went to their headquarters. >> I'll never forget I was visiting with a couple of his folks about uh what this might look like. and he came in and uh we had gotten pretty far along and he looked over at me, I'll never forget it. And he said, "I have never paid so much for nothing in my life." But he said, he said, "This thing, there's something about it I like." When we initially made our deal, he couldn't use Cowboys or he couldn't use the Star. >> Wow. >> We just did the deal with the stadium. >> Wow. Now, as Charlotte said, uh she niked the stadium. We made that stadium look like it was Nike headquarters out there, but we didn't do it with the team. We basically uh brought the team out in uh no colors and uh no sponsor at all. >> But, um when we got to New York, we were playing the Giants, and that's when we made uh this announcement. And at that time when we walked out on the field, I had a suit on, but I had the Nike tennis shoes on. And Phil walked out with me and I had the Nike hat on. And um uh we had met earlier with Al Michaels and we had met with Dan Derdorf and we had met in the dressing room and I explained to them what this was about and where the edge was regarding the NFL and where it was uh regarding Nike and the Cowboys that made it a contentious thing. >> I'll never forget Al Michael said now we may have if we have a close game here we might not get much to this in the second half. Well, we had quite a lead, the Cowboys did, going into halftime. So, they spent that entire half talking about this relationship and the NFL and what might might occur. That next morning, Phil called me and he said, "I have never had such a bang for my buck in your life when he called." And I'll tell you, from that time on, uh, I could walk down the streets in New York. I could be in Chicago, uh, and you'd have drivers and cars and what have you, just point to Nike and say, "Go get them." So, the controversy, >> the controversy, if you will, look out. Now the controversy created also a huge uh interest when otherwise it might just been some commercial issue but created a huge interest and of course uh uh the potential result uh relative to my relationship with the NFL and that type thing that got uh a little touchy there for a little while. Uh but in general I can't say enough about uh Phil and his buying into the idea of taking a team. Now he obviously to this day uh wants to be a part of Nike and the NFL and it's as it should be. But uh when it's uh the thing to do, you can do both. Team league. That's right. >> Take everything you say and and I believe it. And yet Paul Tagleu, the commissioner at the time, was like, "What's Jones doing down here? We we've got this deal. What what makes him think that he can he can go and do this?" Did you have that in your mind? >> Well, I had and have all the respect in the world for Paul Tagle, but I was operating on different gasoline. I had the ultimate. They had to come through me. It was my fanny that was going to get put out on the street. Mhm. >> If the Cowboys didn't make more sense financially and if something happened to the Cowboys, frankly, uh it had a good chance of happening to others in the NFL, other teams in the NFL. >> Mhm. >> And so I didn't see a solution to get in line, get in sync, >> get right in with the other at that time 29 teams, 30 teams. Uh, I didn't see that answer either because I hadn't found that answer to do that. And so candidly, it wasn't comfortable. I'm not going to say it's comfortable, but it was inspirational to think that I was doing something about the problem. >> And the way that I was doing something about it, maybe for everybody, maybe not. First, I was interested in what it did for the Cowboys. And I knew good and well some of the things I was suggesting that I was getting criticized for were in the best interest of the Cowboys. And I really thought they were in the best interest of the NFL. I think the clubs and the great markets they're in around this country. They have all of the ability in the world to promote their brands and to be imaginative in terms of of involving fans and products or services. And I think they have the ability to get involved more than you do at one central place. But on the other hand, I thought the NFL as a whole had a fabulous uh inventory of things to engage companies in services and they do very much. It's called Super Bowl. It's called the game itself. And so picture, if you will, a circle that's got all of the clubs in it and then you have the NFL. Well, I could see each club in their areas of marketing and making their deal with Nike. And then I could see the NFL having a deal if Nike, yes, but maybe with an a competing competing entity. That fundamentally was what it was all about, >> right? Because I mean, essentially what happens, you know, for those who aren't as familiar with it is they sue you, you counter sue. I mean, contentious. It it goes it it gets real contentious. It gets latigious. Did you know that that was how this was ultimately going to get settled? You knew there would be a fight? >> Well, first of all, uh uh frankly, uh and I had no other way to think about it. Uh the amount the league sued me for immediately they owned the Cowboys, >> right? >> Uh and 300 million, right? >> $300 million at the time. And I told you that I'd spent it all and didn't have the ultimate figure was to buy the Cowboys. And so it was dramatic for me and traumatic for me, but um caused me to uh uh certainly grow, if you will, buck up. >> Mhm. >> Uh sleep less uh but sharpen up. Mhm. >> And uh it was an experience that I think uh we used as a platform uh again for in years as years have gone by and really have benefited from that more ways than just uh a shot of uh juice for the sponsorship area. I didn't know that buying the Cowboys, by the way. I didn't see that at all. I did see and say, "Look, I'm going to have to find something or I'm going to have a lost leader of millions of dollars for the rest of my life. So, I'm going to need to go get something to associate the Cowboys with that can help me tow the bill, tow the freight for owning the Cowboys." Jerry, we were sitting at a game at a Cowboy game maybe 3, four years ago and you said to me, "Alex, I'm around 79, maybe 80, and I work harder today than I when I was 39 or 49. Where do you get that work ethic from?" Cuz it's remarkable. You haven't slowed down one bit. >> Well, first of all, we were talking earlier and when you bought the team, you were 50. If you could possibly from 50 to my age today, if you could have 10% of the fun that I've had over the last 30 years, >> I'll take five. >> 10. Okay, take five of it. I promise you, there's no way to measure what life has been since touching sport and touching the Dallas Cowboys. But it's given me such an inspirational base that has caused me to do things and and really things that aren't necessarily directly associated at all with the Cowboys. >> And the moral of the story, the lesson is if you got a dream or if you got something that you're passionate about, >> boy, give your passion a whole lot of value >> in terms of putting your assets together to go do it. And so Jerry to that point you know for those of us who who've watched you more closely over the past call it 10 15 20 years certainly the last five or 10 we see someone who is very comfortable with risk very comfortable with controversy. What becomes clear in watching your whole history is this is a feature not a bug. This this is this is who you are. What gives you such comfort with risk because you seek it out. You you run toward it. It feels like >> yeah well I I think that the experience uh uh if you've taken risk then certainly you have failed. I think as much as anything it's the ability to deal with the failure and ask the question okay when you get up a month from now and it's gone totally the other way for you look around at your relationships look around at what you're about in life now. Can you live with how that's going to feel when it didn't work? It's that test. It's that next day test, that next week test. Can you go? If you can do that, then you go back over there and say, "Okay, now what do I have to do?" And financially, what the work you have to do to uh uh put it together? The one thing I've always been able to do is borrow more money than I should have. And I'm real good at it. and it crippled me when I was much younger just getting out of college. So, I've really never seen something that I didn't think that I could figure out a way to financially make it make it happen u ever. Now, what I also though have in these cobwebs back there and if you ever cut me open, that's what you've got in there is all of those times when I couldn't pay. Mhm. >> When I first got involved with the Cowboys, it was pretty, frankly, very negative in this area. And I had a reporter come up and we won one football game our first year. And the reporter asked me, he said, "These have got to be the lowest days of your life." >> I said, "About 15 years before I bought the Cowboys, I came in Love Field, at that time the airport here in Dallas, and I went up to a little stand. That was a rent a car stand. Small by today's standards. Put my card out there and said, "I need to rent a car for my work down here." They looked down a list, took my card right in front of me, and just cut it in two. They said, "Young man, you need to know how to learn how to pay your bills. You don't have any credit." That's a hard day in Dallas, Texas, not just winning one football game all year long. >> Those are the hard days right there. And so again, not to overemphasize the point, the thing we're talking about, the interest in extending uh the interest in sport and certainly the years I've been involved when it didn't quite work financially. Now, we're doing some good lately about how to make it work financially >> and that we're seeing that is more there than we might have thought were there. I didn't necessarily see that. I really didn't. I found it out pretty quick that it was uh it was there. So looking back seems like well you know that ought to have worked that should have if you're sitting out here on now social media and all of the eyeballs there you ought to be able to figure out a way to attach that affinity to a product or a service. You should be able to do that. Well we hadn't done that and uh to me that's there today and it's there more so than it's ever been. Well, and one of the things that to your exact point, Jerry, around the the value of sports and the value of teams that has become very apparent, private equity coming into sports and specifically the National Football League has been a a seinal moment uh for the league. What do you make of private equity so far in the league? >> I think that um uh first of all, let me clear this up. I'm a Main Street guy, not a Wall Street guy. I was raised uh with a family that was the the the heart of the customer. The customer is right. That approach to things. The thing that is so important is to take your critical associations and that can be products, service, companies. Uh it can possibly be those very investors. >> Mhm. Uh, I'm going to call them minority investors, although I don't accept a minority investor. I don't want to say that about an investor. Anybody that wants to put hundreds of thousands or a million dollars in the team, boy, I want them to be just as uh entitled, frankly, as I feel about it to get that done. >> And I want to treat them that way. And I want them to think that when they walk out here, if they come out here, I want them to think they're a part of this team because they are. >> They're critical. Name me any business that when they have great capital sources don't really uh have a lot of energy and a lot of success. Mhm. >> And so sports today is getting real capital sources uh as other investments would. And that capital resources, a part of that is not some dividend check or not some plaque on the wall. A part of that is being involved and getting to be a part of the team. I think that's critical. Uh, I've had people involved in our team, the Cowboys, not a direct ownership, but as a valued sponsor. >> And, uh, let's say a beer sponsor. Well, that's Jerry Jones out at the floor of that warehouse at 6:00 in the morning. >> And you'd think I was talking to the uh uh football team at halftime. >> Instead, I'm talking to the drivers. And I'm talking to the drivers about how when they go in a 7-Eleven, talk to the manager about product placement and putting it to where more people will buy the beer. I'm explaining that to them. So consequently, I'm as interested in the Cowboys helping them be what they want to be as they are in being interested in the Cowboys. M. >> So that's not exactly the relationship that somebody might think if they were sitting there as an investment in a fund or something like that. There's more to being an owner in sports, right? >> And it can be and it can be very rewarding. >> You told me that in that phone call and you said, "Alex, it has to be you. You got to be the chief marketing officer, the chief revenue officer. It's got to be you. Not anyone you hire. They want to see you and you're gonna open doors for that team and it's got to be you. And and you said it like three times. You said don't forget that. >> So Jerry, would you you know you have held on to this as your family business for all. I I have to think you've got people knocking on your door especially with these newly approved private equity firms. They'd love to buy a steak in the Cowboys. Would you consider that? >> Well, I know that I asked one person uh his name was Don Tyson of Tyson's Chicken. >> He's a great friend of mine. and he sat with me at two Super Bowls. But when I bought the Cowboys and I lived in Arkansas, I asked Don if he'd like to join me in buying the Cowboys. >> And Don said, "I'm going to buy Holly Farms here in a few months." And so, and I'm not quite into the sport thing like you are. >> So, he said, "I'm not going to do it, but he said, Jerry, is it possible for you to do it by yourself?" And I said, "Well, uh, yeah, but I'm talking to you because it'd be a lot more comfortable, a lot easier to have with you as a partner." He said, "If you can do this without a partner, okay, you should do it because partners are expensive." That would be from the eyes of, let's say, the majority owner, >> right? >> Well, of course they're expensive. They're your partners. They own the team like you own it and they should be involved and be included and be made to uh uh not not some kind of fictitious thing but be made to be involved and uh candidly uh I feel that way about our key sponsors as well. To me that's wearing it. Now you and I both know uh all owners don't get involved like George Stein Bruner did. Mhm. >> All of them don't get involved like I get involved. But candidly, uh, if you want this thing to be what it can be for you, A-Rod, >> that is the way to engage. And what you've ended up with is a almost a a family of your own involved with the Cowboys. In my particular case, I've gotten to spend this journey directly with my family. Mhm. >> And as it's turned out, they have become not the ones we started the journey with. And they have we have evolved. We've all evolved together. And I get credit for most of the credit I get are their ideas and their execution. But my whole point is it is the journey. >> Mhm. >> And it is the being involved. And the good news is is that we can step up there and win a championship. M >> have all of this all of this reminds me of the Godfather and I'm going to provide the protection, the money, and uh everything else. Tell me why I deserve this good. >> And so when you talk about your family, Jerry, what I hear you saying, and I want you to keep us honest here, is that this will be the family business. You're not looking for partners at this point. Is that a fair statement? >> Yeah. And I think the best way to make my point is that um I alluded to it earlier. I didn't make an investment. I did not make an investment. I invested in a job. And that's why from the very get-go, I said I was going to be involved in every way. >> Mhm. >> My children buying through me back in those years were not a part of an investment. We bought the team, but what we got were jobs and we got a career. And guess what? We got a life. And uh I can't tell you what uh uh the most rewarding thing of course has been really working with them and uh having them involved as well. So under those circumstances because uh they've spent a lifetime working with the Cowboys. Uh I don't see that changing. Uh and of course there's no succession plan here because uh they've been doing it anyway. Mhm. And so what I would imagine, just to put a fine point on it, people must knock on your door wanting to invest in the Cowboys and you just say no thank you. >> Well, I've had wonderful opportunities, frankly, yes, uh to have partners uh almost almost from the time I bought the club. As a matter of fact, the next morning I got up after we had had our announcement that we were going to buy the team and make the changes. Uh, I get a call from Bum Brightite who had sold me the team. And he said, "I just got a call from probably the most qualified people you could ever imagine and said, uh, they were there. They they've seen where I was had a handshake or whatever we've got." And they said to tell you that you can uh whatever's on the piece of paper we sign, which wasn't much, they'll take it, give you 10 million to go home to Arkansas that morning. I said, "Mr. Bright," I said, "Uhuh, tell them that's thanks for their offer, but uh no, I'm on this thing now and we're going with it." But the bottom line is that the time spent, the commitment, the being involved. >> Uh it it really hadn't been work, >> right? >> Been some worry now. Been some serious serious whatifs. Uh principally early financial, very early financial. I could really have envisioned a disaster. Mhm. >> And u frankly, I had gotten to a point to where I shouldn't have risked that regarding my family, especially after what I'd been through and knew better. Uh but I did it because I wanted to be involved. But I was very aware. It's like being operated on a little bit while you're still awake. I was very aware the whole time of how uh an embarrassing thing it would be to have to uh uh leave Dallas and leave the Cowboys here or the whatever's left of it. >> Right. And so your succession plan is essentially you said there's no succession plan, but the succession plan is your kids. >> Yes. And it's in place and uh uh the truth is they could operate uh today if we decided we want to go someplace. So Jerry, I have two daughters and their north star is Jeannie Bus, great the great Dr. Bus's daughter and Charlotte and you know they want to be involved with sports one day. So they they watch, they admire just like I have studied you over the years. They're studying Charlotte and Genie Bus. >> Yeah. >> So I hope to have that one day. I can't tell you how much I think that women are such a part of uh of the future of sport. We know it in the NFL. We're so proud of our percentage of women that are involved uh in sport. Mhm. >> We're going to get to our our lightning round in a second, but but there's one thing that just sort of strikes me, you know, sitting here with with both of you who are larger than life characters, if I can say this, about my partner um and characters who have had to deal with a lot of stuff coming at you over the course of your careers from when you were a player to now from all all through your ownership. What's your advice for blocking out the noise? You get a lot of criticism every day in the paper, every day on social media. Stephen A. Smith, whoever it is, fussing at you or fuss fussing about you. What's your secret? >> Well, first of all, uh, sports gives you such a a space entering it, you know, that you're going to have criticism. You strike out and you strike out at critical times sometimes. And the very thing that we encourage is fans interest in that and fans sitting there with opinions and their opinions about whether or not we did it the way they would have done it or what their expectation was. That's what it's based on. And it's so authentic and so you live in that. And uh certainly I I don't guess I should be proud of it, but I don't I don't know of many that have had more criticism than I've had over the last uh uh 354 years to be involved. But I've never ever resented that in any way. Uh as a matter of fact, uh I I want to address it and uh want to be a part of it. Sometimes I think that uh there may be something wrong here. I seem to do better when they're criticizing me than than when I'm not. But sports allows you to do that. Now, it really does allow you to show them. And it allows you to uh have a certain place within yourself. You're part of a team always, but within yourself, it allows you to uh imagine uh coming back and showing them. We just made a trade on Micah Parsons. >> Really? I missed that. No, I'm just kidding. Well, we just made a trade with Michael Parsons. Well, of course, I want to show that we can be successful with the result of what that brings to the Dallas Cowboys. That's going to bat. >> Mhm. >> Can you imagine? Uh uh I'm still sitting here going to bat. Uh I remember last year after or we had a a loss that really >> uh had me down. >> And so I know that you're supposed to make that list. It's the old Ben Franklin list where on the left side you list all of the things that you've got that are great and on the right side you list all of the negatives that are going on which would certainly be the order of the day in that circumstances. Well, I want you to know that sometimes I have to list my things that I do right. I have to list it about five times in five different ways to make my list longer. But I always come out of there with a positive list. Glad to be playing ball today. >> That's right. All right, we're going to do our rapid fire. So, it's 10 questions. We'll bounce it back and forth. And first thing that comes to your mind, what's one word to describe your deal making style? >> Optimistic. >> What's more important to you, your gut or data? >> Gut. >> Who's your dream dealmaking partner? Oh, I would uh I would put Georgetown Bruner right there. Not because it's convenient. >> What's your the best piece of advice you received on deal making or running a business? >> Uh it's not right or wrong. It's handle and cut your wrong short and let your rights run long. >> What's the worst advice you've been given? I'd say it's um from bankers either on one side anxious to loan the money uh or on another side uh being a little reluctant to buy into my idea. >> What's a deal you wish you had done? You know, I thought the U Minnesota Vikings uh when Red Mcomes bought them, uh I thought that was the equivalent of uh uh not far back, but that was like buying a $50,000 house on a $500,000 block full of houses. I thought if there's any way to involve that with a family or a friend and of course uh they've ended up with some great ownership but that was for me at that time the best deal I'd seen on the street so to speak in sport. >> What's more stressful, the fourth quarter of a playoff game or the final round of a negotiation? >> Oh, I think that playoff game is what it's all about. And I know a lot of people say Jerry's interested in the uh interested in the values and he's interested in the financial. Uh it was always about uh getting a chance to come in here and do those things that let you get to maybe have a chance for a world championship and that's primary. >> What's your hype song before you go into a big meeting or a big negotiation? Uh, I want to be sweet here. >> Hard times. >> There you go. >> There you go. >> You can only watch one sport other than football for the rest of your life. What is it? >> Oh, baseball's my favorite. >> There you go. >> And that's not because he's sitting there at all. >> And that's cuz >> All right. So, we usually ask, what's one team you want to win a Super Bowl or a championship? So, I'm going to avoid that. My question is, what's the first thing you're going to do when you win your next championship? And I'm gonna add this and can I come along? I'm gonna make a victory tour. And this day and time with social media and everything, uh, it'll be quite a victory tour. And let me say this, every time I make a decision with the Cowboys, a little image pops up about what you're going to do when you're holding the trophy. That's >> right. There you go. And you will. We look forward to seeing you holding that uh someday soon. The Deal is a production from Bloomberg Podcasts and Bloomberg Originals. The Deal is hosted by Alex Rodriguez and Jason Kelly. This show was produced by Anna Maserakis, Stacy Wong, Lizzie Phillip, and Eden Martinez. Original music and engineering by Blake Maples. Manuel Lopez Kano was our sound operator. Our booker is Paige Keffir. David E. Rella is our managing editor. Our executive producers are Jason Kelly, Amy Keane, Jordan Opinger, Trey Shallow Horn, Regina Delia, Kelly Lefarer, and Ashley Honig. Sage Bowman is our head of podcasts. Special thanks to Rachel Carnival, Elena Los Angeles, and Nick Silva. Joshua Dvau is our director of photography. Rub Shakir is our creative director. Art direction is from Jaclyn Kesler. Camera operation by Ryan Cavetero, EJ Enriquez, and April Kirby. Our gaffer is Mike Spicer, and our grip is Eric Tresiaak. Tony Yay is our production assistant. Alex Diconis is our video editor and Will Connelly is our assistant editor. You can listen to The Deal on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can also tune in to the video companion on Bloomberg Originals and on Bloomberg TV. Thanks for listening.
How Jerry Jones Turned the Cowboys Into a Global Brand | The Deal with Alex Rodriguez and Jason…
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Bloomberg Audio Studios podcasts, radio, news. All right, so we've taken this show many places, but this is our first time in Dallas at the Star. This is the brainchild of the Jones family, and we're talking to the man himself, Jerry Jones. >> Jerry's my northstar as an owner, and what he's done with this franchise, taking it where he bought it from to where it is today. Pretty incredible. No one's done it better. Literally, no one has built a more valuable sports franchise on the planet. $13 billion is the estimated value of the Dallas Cowboys. Lots of lessons that we're going to learn from Jerry Jones. I can't wait. Let's do it. >> Jerry Jones, thank you so much for having us here in Texas. Well, first of all, I'm proud you are here. We're overlooking the field and uh I'm kind of proud of what's around the field as well with our stars. So, uh uh thanks for coming to the Star. Great to be with both of you. And Alex, so proud to see my neighbor, my old neighbor back here in Dallas. >> That's right. >> So, Alex, I'm going to let you kick it off. >> Yeah. So, you know, Jace, when I um first decided that I wanted to own a team, this is something I've been dreaming about for forever and ever since I was a teenager, but of course, I come from very humble beginnings, but I said, "There's one owner I must talk to, and that's Mr. Jerry Jones." And I made a call to Charlotte. This was around co time. We were taking a run at the Mets. >> Jerry's daughter, Charlotte Jones. >> Charlotte Jones. I said, "Boy, but tell you, maybe in a couple weeks she'll get Mr. Jones on cuz he's very busy." And Charlotte hits me up right back. He Jerry would love to talk to you. How's Wednesday at 2:00? I said done. And I thought it was going to be 15 minutes. And boy, I tell you what, 90 minutes later, I have like pages and pages of notes. And he gave me you gave me the most incredible advice that I'll never forget. And for that, I'm very grateful. So that that call really meant a lot to me. And a lot of what you told me along with what I learned from George Simoners and others that I respect and admire. I think about that as an owner today of the Minnesota Timber and the Minnesota Links. So thank you for that. Well, congratulations and um you know uh the minute that uh you told me you were going to get involved at the ownership level, it just made all the sense in the world. Uh the fact that you had always wanted to be in ownership says it all as well because in my mind there is a connection. It's of passion. It uh you can call it competitiveness. Uh but it's accomplishing things that are hard to do. But you know, A-Rod, you mentioned George >> Steinbruner >> and my early days with the Cowboys, I'd get a nice note and I always look forward to it and it would be from him >> and he would give me I call them my sweet nothings. I put them in a file that I had that for. But it were daily encouragements >> because there was a lot of criticism because of of the way that we bought the Cowboys, changed the coaches out and frankly did a lot of changes. Well, of all the people in the world to be getting those nice encouraging notes that boy stick in there of keep it going. I've got a legacy there. And we, George Stein Bruner, the family, and my family set up a company called Legends. >> And that was, of course, many years later. And I got to meet with him several times as we were talking about Legends. And Legends serves many, many sports, and it serves facilities and the process of really fan engagement. I'll never forget though, >> yeah. Yeah, >> George Stein Bruner told the group when we met, he said, "Uh, I don't need anything written down. You You don't spend any money or time on that contract over there. He and I'll shake hands and we'll have all we need to make this business work." >> So, Jerry, you know, you mentioned you getting into ownership and and a lot that led to that. You know, when Alex calls you and says he's going to, you know, buy into the NBA and the WNBA, no one would doubt that that was a good deal. When you bought the Dallas Cowboys, people thought you were insane. That people thought it was a bad business and that you were overpaying. What gave you the certitude that this was a good deal? >> Well, it it truly was passion. And um just as passion can help you in many aspects of life, I really didn't see those obvious obstacles. >> I just didn't see them. Now you say, "Well, can't you see losing a million dollars a month? Are you blind? What what how much were you drinking when you bought the when you bought the Cowboys?" Well, the point is I looked for ways, and this is common. I looked for ways that were maybe a little ambitious, but I looked for ways to solve every one of those problems. And while there may have been long odds, uh there may have been a little imagination in those ways, I took those problems and I thought I had a solution as to how to address them. That's what you will do when you want to do it real bad. And yes, the cowboys, it was daunting, but the point is that it was always there. the interest in becoming involved and becoming involved in a way that let's say unlike A-Rod, becoming in a way that didn't swing the bat or didn't make the block, which I certainly appreciated as a great fan, but becoming involved in a way that would uh make it better. >> I found no sports franchise anywhere in the world that was making any money. You see, sports had been a great great portrayer of what sports is about. It's called publicity. >> Well, the difference in publicity in my point of view than marketing is that publicity has great audiences. It has great uh if you will interest and can create interest. Marketing is when you take that publicity and you bring it home and set up a plan to monetize some of it and go out and get that and have enough coming back in to go again. That's called a business model. >> Yeah. Well, sports had not only the great passion and the natural instincts of competing and everybody and the appreciation of people that do, but sports had this massive massive publicity and massive of understanding, but yet it had no business model to make it call marketing where you could bring back a little and go again. >> Right? that was totally necessary for me because I couldn't go again. Now, what happened with me was candidly is that the amount of money I had wasn't what was needed. >> But because the NFL and the Cowboys were were really slow, >> we were really down and out financially, frankly. >> Because of that, then the NFL knew they had a problem. The bankers didn't worry about me because they didn't loan anything on the Cowboys. the bankers loaned it on a receivable that I had. And so the approval of me getting through the door and still not having any money left to go buy the general partners that I had agreed under contract to go buy out, but I didn't have the money to go do that. >> So Jay, along those lines, so go back to 1989. You're losing a million dollars per month. Now, I heard you also say that you may have wanted to buy a business that was cash flowing to offset some of those losses. as you think about filling those holes, was that stressful? And what was your strategy? Walk us through that. >> On a personal basis, I had such pride and such an experience in sport uh when I was in college and my senior year at Arkansas, we won the national championship. Well, I had been schooled in selling uh insurance. I could know that leg off the chair selling, but what I hadn't done was been really schooled in financial. And so I thought because I could tell a good story and could borrow all that money that that was the way to go. And so my first year or two out of college, I borrowed more money than you could even count. And my first year out of school, I think my commissions were $30,000. My interest was $150,000 to give you an idea how over my skis I had gotten. It took me years. It took my uh Jean, my wife, getting her purse taken out of her hands and cards, credit cards cut in two. It took the bill players coming. So, I had really uh gotten a lesson in how not to do it as far as buying something. Well, I managed to come through that and it was the greatest education that I'd ever had. Well, then I was very fortunate and got some real finances with the oil and gas business >> after all that buttkicking that I got for getting out over my skis. >> After all of that, to show you how passionate or crazy I was, after going through that of thinking that uh the old financial death had been at Ray, I turned around and bought the Dallas Cowboys. That shows you how much passion was involved. But I remember when we talked, Alex, I said, listen, I said nothing nothing can stand in the way of passion. >> So I think Alex would probably validate this that when he goes to buy a team, part of the advice that he gets is sit, don't make any big moves, no sudden moves, don't get rid of a bunch of people right away. You didn't follow that advice. Basically, the minute you come in, you get rid of this legendary coach. You fired everybody from the guy in announcing the public announcements to the head of publicity and the general manager. Why? What did you see that was so wrong with them that you felt like you immediately had to act? >> You have to assume when you buy something that who you buy it from knows what it's worth like it is. give them credit or certainly their creditors might know they know what the business is. So a big mistake is not to automatically build in know that you've got to change the scenery if you pay what you're going to pay. Assume they're getting top dollar and have taken it when they got your money. Mhm. >> So you have to really go in thinking change >> when it was as dramatically out of celter as the cowboys were. I had to have radical change and I had to do it yesterday. So there was an urgency. You didn't have time to have a good time so to speak. That plus again the fact that I can't emphasize enough. I felt like Hershel Walker running through the line. It was just bouncing off of me. There were all kinds of hurdles that were popping. And of course, where was the bad day? Well, I couldn't have a bad day because I was getting to do something that I'd wanted to do all my life. >> And that ruled the day. >> So, one of the other most seinal deals that that you make is you mentioned Hershel Walker. >> Got rid of him. You traded him. Yeah. um it turns out to be arguably one of the most brilliant trades in in the history of football did not seem that way at the time. Talk us through that decision. >> If you look at uh making change and certainly Hershel Walker was a change, the best player we had and it was well known. Uh, in this particular case, you were kind of new on the block, so you automatically didn't know what you were doing. >> Mhm. >> Always when it's an accomplished name of whether it's sport or otherwise, always when you get a divorce there, it's going to look bad for the one that made the decision. Always. There's no question. If you can't handle that, then don't make the trade. Or if you can't anticipate that, don't make the trade. that's alive and well. But what it caused you to do is not just the tangible uh consideration you got, which at that time were draft picks. >> Uh you didn't have a cap at that time, >> but you had those draft picks and that was the tangible. What those trades did, what those picks did was allow us to use them not only for using them in the draft, but we use them to trade trade. And we did it with I'm not going to say randomness, but we did it with reckless abandon if you want to. It caused you to be more of a player because it was like going to Las Vegas with money in your pocket. And I don't think there's any question that I willing to take risk. In those early days after having acquired the Cowboys, uh, that we built players, built our roster, I think the the ability to cut and shoot was a big deal. I've heard you talk about ambiguity. I think about it from the lens of sports. Jerry, there's some guys that I've played with that are free agents and they don't know when that next check's coming from or where it's coming from. And you create a 300 hitter becomes a 215 hitter. A guy that hits 30 home runs hits 18 home runs because of the nerves. The same is true in business. But you have this ability to not knowing what's going to happen next to perform at a high level. Do you believe that's true? And and where does that come from if it is true? >> Well, I know it's true uh in my situation, but I think it's very true. Uh and some of the greatest people that uh have ever been involved in the professions or business, they don't function as well if they don't know what's going to happen at the end of the week, especially financially. They need to know that so that they can get on with the uh their business of being as excellent as they are. On the other hand, there are some people that the ambiguity that's out there of not knowing what your check is, they're better than if they knew what the check was going to be. >> They're more clever. They're more cunning. They're more They've just got more uh skill and are willing to exert it. I call that tolerance for ambiguity. Tolerance for ambiguity. And the classic, at least known story was the famous riverboat gambler. Charming mustache sitting there. The next card up is going to get him throwed off the boat or he's going to own the boat. Now, that's when he's the best that he is in his life. And of course, he's gotten thrown off that boat before and he's won the boat a few times. The difference is though, I'll bet you not a one of those charming son of a guns didn't know how to swim. >> Now you can play that hand, but you better know how to swim because you're going to get thrown off the boat a little bit. >> You've gotten thrown off the boat >> a little bit. >> I have to. >> I was going to say you too. You guys have been thrown off some boats together. So I I do want to, you know, move ahead a little bit chronologically because one of the ways that you step out is with your deal making. You know, you're you come in, you're part of this club, a club that a lot of people, especially now, want to be a part of. and NFL has its way of doing business. And you at some point decide that you might be able to do this a little bit better. And I'm thinking specifically the Nike deal. Yeah. >> You know, this is a Nike athlete right here. Everybody remembers you and Phil Knight walking out on that field. How does that deal come about? How do you decide to do that knowing that the NFL they've got Reebok, they're good. You decide you can do something better. I had known a great coach named Eddie Sutton and he had told me about Phil Knight as a young man bringing his things to uh where he was coaching in college and selling it out of the trunk that Phil Knight had had that path to where he was. But the thing that was obvious to me was that he took a shoe or he took performance or perspective performance mentally in a shoe and he did such a good job of telling the story with it that he made me think if I could put the shoe on I could run faster. >> Right? And that so hit home with me relative to what sports is about but really can be accentuated. Uh it truly is the story when you see uh a rare player, a rare athlete. There's so much more that's going on there with that rare athlete >> and just the story of what's making him rare comparing him to uh the other players or other competition. I call it one and one is three. >> Mhm. >> And I apply that to everything whether it's a business decision. One in one is three in sports. Not two but three. And it's because that three is imagination. That three is uh putting yourself in in a way having yourself hit the home run or having yourself there when you're uh watching or thinking about it. That area right there is an intangible because it is an intangible. That's where the biggest margins are in business. >> Not down here where everybody's doing it and the engineers are working on it. They've got it whittleled down to right there. This area right here, that imagineering, that imagination part that's makes one and one three is where the margins are and frankly where the glory is. >> I spent my 25 year career with Nike and Phil Knight was just the most amazing partner and it delighted me when you made that move. But my question is, when you come up with that idea at home, you're thinking in the couch or wherever, from the time you call Phil Knight, how long did it take? And how do those conversations go? Are you pitching your idea of why this is a great marriage? How does that go? If you can give us a little color. >> I visited with him. Uh my wife Jane and son Jerry u went to their headquarters. >> I'll never forget I was visiting with a couple of his folks about uh what this might look like. and he came in and uh we had gotten pretty far along and he looked over at me, I'll never forget it. And he said, "I have never paid so much for nothing in my life." But he said, he said, "This thing, there's something about it I like." When we initially made our deal, he couldn't use Cowboys or he couldn't use the Star. >> Wow. >> We just did the deal with the stadium. >> Wow. Now, as Charlotte said, uh she niked the stadium. We made that stadium look like it was Nike headquarters out there, but we didn't do it with the team. We basically uh brought the team out in uh no colors and uh no sponsor at all. >> But, um when we got to New York, we were playing the Giants, and that's when we made uh this announcement. And at that time when we walked out on the field, I had a suit on, but I had the Nike tennis shoes on. And Phil walked out with me and I had the Nike hat on. And um uh we had met earlier with Al Michaels and we had met with Dan Derdorf and we had met in the dressing room and I explained to them what this was about and where the edge was regarding the NFL and where it was uh regarding Nike and the Cowboys that made it a contentious thing. >> I'll never forget Al Michael said now we may have if we have a close game here we might not get much to this in the second half. Well, we had quite a lead, the Cowboys did, going into halftime. So, they spent that entire half talking about this relationship and the NFL and what might might occur. That next morning, Phil called me and he said, "I have never had such a bang for my buck in your life when he called." And I'll tell you, from that time on, uh, I could walk down the streets in New York. I could be in Chicago, uh, and you'd have drivers and cars and what have you, just point to Nike and say, "Go get them." So, the controversy, >> the controversy, if you will, look out. Now the controversy created also a huge uh interest when otherwise it might just been some commercial issue but created a huge interest and of course uh uh the potential result uh relative to my relationship with the NFL and that type thing that got uh a little touchy there for a little while. Uh but in general I can't say enough about uh Phil and his buying into the idea of taking a team. Now he obviously to this day uh wants to be a part of Nike and the NFL and it's as it should be. But uh when it's uh the thing to do, you can do both. Team league. That's right. >> Take everything you say and and I believe it. And yet Paul Tagleu, the commissioner at the time, was like, "What's Jones doing down here? We we've got this deal. What what makes him think that he can he can go and do this?" Did you have that in your mind? >> Well, I had and have all the respect in the world for Paul Tagle, but I was operating on different gasoline. I had the ultimate. They had to come through me. It was my fanny that was going to get put out on the street. Mhm. >> If the Cowboys didn't make more sense financially and if something happened to the Cowboys, frankly, uh it had a good chance of happening to others in the NFL, other teams in the NFL. >> Mhm. >> And so I didn't see a solution to get in line, get in sync, >> get right in with the other at that time 29 teams, 30 teams. Uh, I didn't see that answer either because I hadn't found that answer to do that. And so candidly, it wasn't comfortable. I'm not going to say it's comfortable, but it was inspirational to think that I was doing something about the problem. >> And the way that I was doing something about it, maybe for everybody, maybe not. First, I was interested in what it did for the Cowboys. And I knew good and well some of the things I was suggesting that I was getting criticized for were in the best interest of the Cowboys. And I really thought they were in the best interest of the NFL. I think the clubs and the great markets they're in around this country. They have all of the ability in the world to promote their brands and to be imaginative in terms of of involving fans and products or services. And I think they have the ability to get involved more than you do at one central place. But on the other hand, I thought the NFL as a whole had a fabulous uh inventory of things to engage companies in services and they do very much. It's called Super Bowl. It's called the game itself. And so picture, if you will, a circle that's got all of the clubs in it and then you have the NFL. Well, I could see each club in their areas of marketing and making their deal with Nike. And then I could see the NFL having a deal if Nike, yes, but maybe with an a competing competing entity. That fundamentally was what it was all about, >> right? Because I mean, essentially what happens, you know, for those who aren't as familiar with it is they sue you, you counter sue. I mean, contentious. It it goes it it gets real contentious. It gets latigious. Did you know that that was how this was ultimately going to get settled? You knew there would be a fight? >> Well, first of all, uh uh frankly, uh and I had no other way to think about it. Uh the amount the league sued me for immediately they owned the Cowboys, >> right? >> Uh and 300 million, right? >> $300 million at the time. And I told you that I'd spent it all and didn't have the ultimate figure was to buy the Cowboys. And so it was dramatic for me and traumatic for me, but um caused me to uh uh certainly grow, if you will, buck up. >> Mhm. >> Uh sleep less uh but sharpen up. Mhm. >> And uh it was an experience that I think uh we used as a platform uh again for in years as years have gone by and really have benefited from that more ways than just uh a shot of uh juice for the sponsorship area. I didn't know that buying the Cowboys, by the way. I didn't see that at all. I did see and say, "Look, I'm going to have to find something or I'm going to have a lost leader of millions of dollars for the rest of my life. So, I'm going to need to go get something to associate the Cowboys with that can help me tow the bill, tow the freight for owning the Cowboys." Jerry, we were sitting at a game at a Cowboy game maybe 3, four years ago and you said to me, "Alex, I'm around 79, maybe 80, and I work harder today than I when I was 39 or 49. Where do you get that work ethic from?" Cuz it's remarkable. You haven't slowed down one bit. >> Well, first of all, we were talking earlier and when you bought the team, you were 50. If you could possibly from 50 to my age today, if you could have 10% of the fun that I've had over the last 30 years, >> I'll take five. >> 10. Okay, take five of it. I promise you, there's no way to measure what life has been since touching sport and touching the Dallas Cowboys. But it's given me such an inspirational base that has caused me to do things and and really things that aren't necessarily directly associated at all with the Cowboys. >> And the moral of the story, the lesson is if you got a dream or if you got something that you're passionate about, >> boy, give your passion a whole lot of value >> in terms of putting your assets together to go do it. And so Jerry to that point you know for those of us who who've watched you more closely over the past call it 10 15 20 years certainly the last five or 10 we see someone who is very comfortable with risk very comfortable with controversy. What becomes clear in watching your whole history is this is a feature not a bug. This this is this is who you are. What gives you such comfort with risk because you seek it out. You you run toward it. It feels like >> yeah well I I think that the experience uh uh if you've taken risk then certainly you have failed. I think as much as anything it's the ability to deal with the failure and ask the question okay when you get up a month from now and it's gone totally the other way for you look around at your relationships look around at what you're about in life now. Can you live with how that's going to feel when it didn't work? It's that test. It's that next day test, that next week test. Can you go? If you can do that, then you go back over there and say, "Okay, now what do I have to do?" And financially, what the work you have to do to uh uh put it together? The one thing I've always been able to do is borrow more money than I should have. And I'm real good at it. and it crippled me when I was much younger just getting out of college. So, I've really never seen something that I didn't think that I could figure out a way to financially make it make it happen u ever. Now, what I also though have in these cobwebs back there and if you ever cut me open, that's what you've got in there is all of those times when I couldn't pay. Mhm. >> When I first got involved with the Cowboys, it was pretty, frankly, very negative in this area. And I had a reporter come up and we won one football game our first year. And the reporter asked me, he said, "These have got to be the lowest days of your life." >> I said, "About 15 years before I bought the Cowboys, I came in Love Field, at that time the airport here in Dallas, and I went up to a little stand. That was a rent a car stand. Small by today's standards. Put my card out there and said, "I need to rent a car for my work down here." They looked down a list, took my card right in front of me, and just cut it in two. They said, "Young man, you need to know how to learn how to pay your bills. You don't have any credit." That's a hard day in Dallas, Texas, not just winning one football game all year long. >> Those are the hard days right there. And so again, not to overemphasize the point, the thing we're talking about, the interest in extending uh the interest in sport and certainly the years I've been involved when it didn't quite work financially. Now, we're doing some good lately about how to make it work financially >> and that we're seeing that is more there than we might have thought were there. I didn't necessarily see that. I really didn't. I found it out pretty quick that it was uh it was there. So looking back seems like well you know that ought to have worked that should have if you're sitting out here on now social media and all of the eyeballs there you ought to be able to figure out a way to attach that affinity to a product or a service. You should be able to do that. Well we hadn't done that and uh to me that's there today and it's there more so than it's ever been. Well, and one of the things that to your exact point, Jerry, around the the value of sports and the value of teams that has become very apparent, private equity coming into sports and specifically the National Football League has been a a seinal moment uh for the league. What do you make of private equity so far in the league? >> I think that um uh first of all, let me clear this up. I'm a Main Street guy, not a Wall Street guy. I was raised uh with a family that was the the the heart of the customer. The customer is right. That approach to things. The thing that is so important is to take your critical associations and that can be products, service, companies. Uh it can possibly be those very investors. >> Mhm. Uh, I'm going to call them minority investors, although I don't accept a minority investor. I don't want to say that about an investor. Anybody that wants to put hundreds of thousands or a million dollars in the team, boy, I want them to be just as uh entitled, frankly, as I feel about it to get that done. >> And I want to treat them that way. And I want them to think that when they walk out here, if they come out here, I want them to think they're a part of this team because they are. >> They're critical. Name me any business that when they have great capital sources don't really uh have a lot of energy and a lot of success. Mhm. >> And so sports today is getting real capital sources uh as other investments would. And that capital resources, a part of that is not some dividend check or not some plaque on the wall. A part of that is being involved and getting to be a part of the team. I think that's critical. Uh, I've had people involved in our team, the Cowboys, not a direct ownership, but as a valued sponsor. >> And, uh, let's say a beer sponsor. Well, that's Jerry Jones out at the floor of that warehouse at 6:00 in the morning. >> And you'd think I was talking to the uh uh football team at halftime. >> Instead, I'm talking to the drivers. And I'm talking to the drivers about how when they go in a 7-Eleven, talk to the manager about product placement and putting it to where more people will buy the beer. I'm explaining that to them. So consequently, I'm as interested in the Cowboys helping them be what they want to be as they are in being interested in the Cowboys. M. >> So that's not exactly the relationship that somebody might think if they were sitting there as an investment in a fund or something like that. There's more to being an owner in sports, right? >> And it can be and it can be very rewarding. >> You told me that in that phone call and you said, "Alex, it has to be you. You got to be the chief marketing officer, the chief revenue officer. It's got to be you. Not anyone you hire. They want to see you and you're gonna open doors for that team and it's got to be you. And and you said it like three times. You said don't forget that. >> So Jerry, would you you know you have held on to this as your family business for all. I I have to think you've got people knocking on your door especially with these newly approved private equity firms. They'd love to buy a steak in the Cowboys. Would you consider that? >> Well, I know that I asked one person uh his name was Don Tyson of Tyson's Chicken. >> He's a great friend of mine. and he sat with me at two Super Bowls. But when I bought the Cowboys and I lived in Arkansas, I asked Don if he'd like to join me in buying the Cowboys. >> And Don said, "I'm going to buy Holly Farms here in a few months." And so, and I'm not quite into the sport thing like you are. >> So, he said, "I'm not going to do it, but he said, Jerry, is it possible for you to do it by yourself?" And I said, "Well, uh, yeah, but I'm talking to you because it'd be a lot more comfortable, a lot easier to have with you as a partner." He said, "If you can do this without a partner, okay, you should do it because partners are expensive." That would be from the eyes of, let's say, the majority owner, >> right? >> Well, of course they're expensive. They're your partners. They own the team like you own it and they should be involved and be included and be made to uh uh not not some kind of fictitious thing but be made to be involved and uh candidly uh I feel that way about our key sponsors as well. To me that's wearing it. Now you and I both know uh all owners don't get involved like George Stein Bruner did. Mhm. >> All of them don't get involved like I get involved. But candidly, uh, if you want this thing to be what it can be for you, A-Rod, >> that is the way to engage. And what you've ended up with is a almost a a family of your own involved with the Cowboys. In my particular case, I've gotten to spend this journey directly with my family. Mhm. >> And as it's turned out, they have become not the ones we started the journey with. And they have we have evolved. We've all evolved together. And I get credit for most of the credit I get are their ideas and their execution. But my whole point is it is the journey. >> Mhm. >> And it is the being involved. And the good news is is that we can step up there and win a championship. M >> have all of this all of this reminds me of the Godfather and I'm going to provide the protection, the money, and uh everything else. Tell me why I deserve this good. >> And so when you talk about your family, Jerry, what I hear you saying, and I want you to keep us honest here, is that this will be the family business. You're not looking for partners at this point. Is that a fair statement? >> Yeah. And I think the best way to make my point is that um I alluded to it earlier. I didn't make an investment. I did not make an investment. I invested in a job. And that's why from the very get-go, I said I was going to be involved in every way. >> Mhm. >> My children buying through me back in those years were not a part of an investment. We bought the team, but what we got were jobs and we got a career. And guess what? We got a life. And uh I can't tell you what uh uh the most rewarding thing of course has been really working with them and uh having them involved as well. So under those circumstances because uh they've spent a lifetime working with the Cowboys. Uh I don't see that changing. Uh and of course there's no succession plan here because uh they've been doing it anyway. Mhm. And so what I would imagine, just to put a fine point on it, people must knock on your door wanting to invest in the Cowboys and you just say no thank you. >> Well, I've had wonderful opportunities, frankly, yes, uh to have partners uh almost almost from the time I bought the club. As a matter of fact, the next morning I got up after we had had our announcement that we were going to buy the team and make the changes. Uh, I get a call from Bum Brightite who had sold me the team. And he said, "I just got a call from probably the most qualified people you could ever imagine and said, uh, they were there. They they've seen where I was had a handshake or whatever we've got." And they said to tell you that you can uh whatever's on the piece of paper we sign, which wasn't much, they'll take it, give you 10 million to go home to Arkansas that morning. I said, "Mr. Bright," I said, "Uhuh, tell them that's thanks for their offer, but uh no, I'm on this thing now and we're going with it." But the bottom line is that the time spent, the commitment, the being involved. >> Uh it it really hadn't been work, >> right? >> Been some worry now. Been some serious serious whatifs. Uh principally early financial, very early financial. I could really have envisioned a disaster. Mhm. >> And u frankly, I had gotten to a point to where I shouldn't have risked that regarding my family, especially after what I'd been through and knew better. Uh but I did it because I wanted to be involved. But I was very aware. It's like being operated on a little bit while you're still awake. I was very aware the whole time of how uh an embarrassing thing it would be to have to uh uh leave Dallas and leave the Cowboys here or the whatever's left of it. >> Right. And so your succession plan is essentially you said there's no succession plan, but the succession plan is your kids. >> Yes. And it's in place and uh uh the truth is they could operate uh today if we decided we want to go someplace. So Jerry, I have two daughters and their north star is Jeannie Bus, great the great Dr. Bus's daughter and Charlotte and you know they want to be involved with sports one day. So they they watch, they admire just like I have studied you over the years. They're studying Charlotte and Genie Bus. >> Yeah. >> So I hope to have that one day. I can't tell you how much I think that women are such a part of uh of the future of sport. We know it in the NFL. We're so proud of our percentage of women that are involved uh in sport. Mhm. >> We're going to get to our our lightning round in a second, but but there's one thing that just sort of strikes me, you know, sitting here with with both of you who are larger than life characters, if I can say this, about my partner um and characters who have had to deal with a lot of stuff coming at you over the course of your careers from when you were a player to now from all all through your ownership. What's your advice for blocking out the noise? You get a lot of criticism every day in the paper, every day on social media. Stephen A. Smith, whoever it is, fussing at you or fuss fussing about you. What's your secret? >> Well, first of all, uh, sports gives you such a a space entering it, you know, that you're going to have criticism. You strike out and you strike out at critical times sometimes. And the very thing that we encourage is fans interest in that and fans sitting there with opinions and their opinions about whether or not we did it the way they would have done it or what their expectation was. That's what it's based on. And it's so authentic and so you live in that. And uh certainly I I don't guess I should be proud of it, but I don't I don't know of many that have had more criticism than I've had over the last uh uh 354 years to be involved. But I've never ever resented that in any way. Uh as a matter of fact, uh I I want to address it and uh want to be a part of it. Sometimes I think that uh there may be something wrong here. I seem to do better when they're criticizing me than than when I'm not. But sports allows you to do that. Now, it really does allow you to show them. And it allows you to uh have a certain place within yourself. You're part of a team always, but within yourself, it allows you to uh imagine uh coming back and showing them. We just made a trade on Micah Parsons. >> Really? I missed that. No, I'm just kidding. Well, we just made a trade with Michael Parsons. Well, of course, I want to show that we can be successful with the result of what that brings to the Dallas Cowboys. That's going to bat. >> Mhm. >> Can you imagine? Uh uh I'm still sitting here going to bat. Uh I remember last year after or we had a a loss that really >> uh had me down. >> And so I know that you're supposed to make that list. It's the old Ben Franklin list where on the left side you list all of the things that you've got that are great and on the right side you list all of the negatives that are going on which would certainly be the order of the day in that circumstances. Well, I want you to know that sometimes I have to list my things that I do right. I have to list it about five times in five different ways to make my list longer. But I always come out of there with a positive list. Glad to be playing ball today. >> That's right. All right, we're going to do our rapid fire. So, it's 10 questions. We'll bounce it back and forth. And first thing that comes to your mind, what's one word to describe your deal making style? >> Optimistic. >> What's more important to you, your gut or data? >> Gut. >> Who's your dream dealmaking partner? Oh, I would uh I would put Georgetown Bruner right there. Not because it's convenient. >> What's your the best piece of advice you received on deal making or running a business? >> Uh it's not right or wrong. It's handle and cut your wrong short and let your rights run long. >> What's the worst advice you've been given? I'd say it's um from bankers either on one side anxious to loan the money uh or on another side uh being a little reluctant to buy into my idea. >> What's a deal you wish you had done? You know, I thought the U Minnesota Vikings uh when Red Mcomes bought them, uh I thought that was the equivalent of uh uh not far back, but that was like buying a $50,000 house on a $500,000 block full of houses. I thought if there's any way to involve that with a family or a friend and of course uh they've ended up with some great ownership but that was for me at that time the best deal I'd seen on the street so to speak in sport. >> What's more stressful, the fourth quarter of a playoff game or the final round of a negotiation? >> Oh, I think that playoff game is what it's all about. And I know a lot of people say Jerry's interested in the uh interested in the values and he's interested in the financial. Uh it was always about uh getting a chance to come in here and do those things that let you get to maybe have a chance for a world championship and that's primary. >> What's your hype song before you go into a big meeting or a big negotiation? Uh, I want to be sweet here. >> Hard times. >> There you go. >> There you go. >> You can only watch one sport other than football for the rest of your life. What is it? >> Oh, baseball's my favorite. >> There you go. >> And that's not because he's sitting there at all. >> And that's cuz >> All right. So, we usually ask, what's one team you want to win a Super Bowl or a championship? So, I'm going to avoid that. My question is, what's the first thing you're going to do when you win your next championship? And I'm gonna add this and can I come along? I'm gonna make a victory tour. And this day and time with social media and everything, uh, it'll be quite a victory tour. And let me say this, every time I make a decision with the Cowboys, a little image pops up about what you're going to do when you're holding the trophy. That's >> right. There you go. And you will. We look forward to seeing you holding that uh someday soon. The Deal is a production from Bloomberg Podcasts and Bloomberg Originals. The Deal is hosted by Alex Rodriguez and Jason Kelly. This show was produced by Anna Maserakis, Stacy Wong, Lizzie Phillip, and Eden Martinez. Original music and engineering by Blake Maples. Manuel Lopez Kano was our sound operator. Our booker is Paige Keffir. David E. Rella is our managing editor. Our executive producers are Jason Kelly, Amy Keane, Jordan Opinger, Trey Shallow Horn, Regina Delia, Kelly Lefarer, and Ashley Honig. Sage Bowman is our head of podcasts. Special thanks to Rachel Carnival, Elena Los Angeles, and Nick Silva. Joshua Dvau is our director of photography. Rub Shakir is our creative director. Art direction is from Jaclyn Kesler. Camera operation by Ryan Cavetero, EJ Enriquez, and April Kirby. Our gaffer is Mike Spicer, and our grip is Eric Tresiaak. Tony Yay is our production assistant. Alex Diconis is our video editor and Will Connelly is our assistant editor. You can listen to The Deal on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can also tune in to the video companion on Bloomberg Originals and on Bloomberg TV. Thanks for listening.