Is The Bottom In For Gold? Silver? Bitcoin? | Lawrence Lepard

Summary

• Sound Money Thesis: The guest reiterates a long-term bullish stance on assets that cannot be printed—gold, silver, and Bitcoin—framed by an eventual “big print” response to rising debt and deficits.
• Precious Metals: Despite recent pullbacks, sentiment-driven corrections are seen as opportunities; long-term drivers include central bank policy, deficits, and supply constraints supporting higher gold and silver prices.
• Silver Miners: He highlights a major disconnect between soaring silver margins and lagging miner equities, arguing for substantial upside as paper markets give way to physical price discovery.
• Gold Miners: While acknowledging volatility and stock-picking difficulty, he expects gold miners to benefit from sustained inflation and compares favorably to historical 1970s performance.
• Bitcoin: Near-term downside is possible in a “correlation-one” event, but the asymmetric upside remains compelling; entry via spot ETFs (FBTC, IBIT) is a practical on-ramp before self-custody.
• Energy and Oil: Oil shocks and war risks add inflation pressure; oil stocks are cited as historical and prospective inflation hedges, with Petrobras (PBR) and Brazil exposure (EWZ) mentioned.
• ETFs and Vehicles: For broad exposure, he notes silver-miner ETFs (SIL, SILJ) and Brazil ETF (EWZ); MicroStrategy (MSTR) is cited as a Bitcoin proxy for equity investors.
• Macro Risks: A potential “correlation-one” selloff, private credit strains, and geopolitical escalation are key risks, but each would likely accelerate policy response and the “big print.”

Transcript

All right, and we should be live. Welcome to Thalam Money. I'm FAF Money founder and your host, Adam Tagert, welcoming you here for a special live stream with sound money expert Larry Leard. Lawrence, how are you? Good to see you, buddy. >> Great, thanks. Yeah, I wouldn't say expert, maybe call me advocate. [laughter] >> All right, sound money advocate. Um, but your reputation precedes you, I'm sure, for most viewers. I'm sure a lot of people here have read your book, The Big Print. Excellent book out there. If you haven't read it, folks, you certainly should should run and get it now. Um, so I huge thanks to to Larry. I I asked him to come uh with with very little notice uh to come in and do a live stream with us today. So, folks, I've got some questions for him, but then we'll also take uh as many live Q&A uh questions from you, the audience, as best we can. I'll let you know when we get to that section. Just ask your question the Q&A in the live chat here, and I'll pull it up. Um, all right. So, Lawrence, um, you know, the the the over the past year, the precious metals and Bitcoin, uh, soared to new highs, new all-time record highs. Um, which they are now down from fairly substantially. Um, yes. >> Uh, probably gold has fared the best. Uh, and but both silver and Bitcoin pretty much lost half their value from the peaks. Um now interestingly uh you know it's it's been a shorter time period from the peak with gold and silver. Um Bitcoin has fallen from its peak and kind of been languishing for longer. But the question I'm hearing from investors about all three is is the bottom in and we're starting to see in all three uh all three of those assets that the recent lows are all behind them. Um they seem to be bouncing here. The question is, is this a flash in the pan before we go to plum to even further depths or do we think the low is actually in and we're setting ourselves up for a nice uh nice recovery here. Um I know you're not, you know, necessarily like a technical analyst or whatnot, but you follow this space very closely. You obviously invest in these assets through your fund. So what is your price outlook? >> Yeah. So I'm I'll give you and I'm going to hedge myself a little bit as well. So um I don't know if the low is in yet. If not, if it's not in, we're close to it. Let's let me put it that way. And I certainly from a sentiment point of view. Um particularly well in both assets really. I mean, Bitcoin hit 126 in October, right? And it's been as low as 60 on a spike and it's mid high60s now. So, and I got to tell you, the sentiment is just dreadful, right? I mean, it's everybody's cranky and you know, it's there's there's a lot of negative sentiment in Bitcoin land. Um the gold people are you know it's a much shorter um experience um because you know gold was roaring into the first part of the year and now as corrected in silver even more so and I really think all three of them what happened here Adams they all just got ahead of themselves. I think as you know I I manage a fund I have a long-term time window. I measure it in years and really fiveyear time frames. And so I'm very very comfortable that um I'm right about the thesis uh you know over a longer time frame. um um on the shorter time frame. I'll my best answer is if we're not at the low and they haven't turned around, we're close. And I'm not sure if I if I didn't have any of them, I certainly wouldn't wait to buy them. Um but, you know, there's there's always what I call the correlation of one event, which is the March of 2020 or the, you know, September of 2008 kind of situation where all markets seize up and everybody, you know, there's a there's a global margin call and a demand for cash. And guess what? Everything gets sold. And in that event, they're all going down. And you know, Bitcoin could go to 50 or 60. I doubt it will, but it could. Um, you know, gold could easily trace back into the 3 38, you know, 3,800 range. Now, Bitcoin or silver, silver broke out at 50. I don't think it's going below 50 again. It's in the mid70s now. I mean, I think it might have touched the 60s briefly, but um, and it could go back there in one of these correlation one events. Now, so then you get into what are the odds we're going to have one of those and you know I don't know they're not zero because you know when you look at all that's going on in the world some of the bad stuff you know the war etc you know if really stupid things continue to happen and some stupid things have already happened but it looks like we're walking back from those um it could get you know it could get worse and [snorts] um you know the book lines out outlines and and my thesis has always been you know all all this correlation one event would do is it would bring the necessary big print forward and and make it faster and bigger. >> And um you know we already I mean I I wrote the book I title it the big print. We don't have a big print yet. We have you know what Lynn calls a gradual print or what I call a little print which is $40 billion a month times 12 months is 480. That's not trillions like the other two last two were but it's not trivial. and Ascent is also using the Treasury to effectively kind of not print but manage the Treasury market because he's selling bills to buy the long bonds. And so that's kind of an operation twist to keep the tenure from blowing out. So I don't know. I mean, my base case right now is that uh and I, you know, I hate I I I don't want to venture too much into political events, but I I think when Lindsey Graham says, you know, we should wrap the war up, I think the memo has gone out that I think finally they've convinced, you know, they've gotten themselves convinced, hopefully they have, that that ground troops would be an unmititigated disaster and that as bad as this war has gone for us in a number of different respects, um doubling down on it would really be stupid. And so, uh, what I'm hoping occurs is that we back away from that. And I don't think Iran really has an interest in totally croaking the world economy. And I think Iran actually likes getting revenue from their oil sales. I mean, you know, it helps them. >> Well, it's pretty much the only way they bring in revenue, >> right? And so, so my sense is that, you know, what we're going to maybe trend toward is kind of a a messy negotiated thing where Israel agrees to stop lobbing missiles and they agree to stop lobbing missiles. And you know, US and Israeli boats can't go through the straight, but other boats can and they pay a toll and you know, we kind of limp forward. But, you know, all the while, meanwhile, the stock market is leaking and you know, the private credit thing is real and larger than everyone thought at first. And so, you know, at some point in time, something big could break. And if it does, then you got your correlation of one event. So I guess what I say to people is um you know if you're in these assets you just have to realize how asymmetric they are and you have to be prepared to to have a draw down and but I think most of the draw down in all three of them has occurred. The power law supports kind of a lowerend boundary of you know 50 55 60k for bitcoin and we're there we're at 66 so you know you got 10% downside. Um silver broke out at 50. Sometimes when a market has a big market that's pressed for a number of years has a breakout, it'll go back and retest that number. And so it's at 70, maybe it could go to 50 briefly. Um, you know, gold is it could could clearly come back in. But, you know, I think everybody's got to have their eye on the longer term prize, which is, you know, the $39 trillion of debt. You know, deficits running at two trillion. And I I had a chart I just looked at a chart that showed that, you know, if if things get worse this year, they they're going to clearly be much more than two because the war is expensive. [snorts] Um, you know, it uh there's no way they're going to get by without printing the money. It's just math. >> So, so and and and when that becomes apparent, you know, then these things are going to really catch wind in their sales again. And I think, you know, there are a lot of people calling for $200 silver. I believe it. I mean, I I believe $6 or $7,000 gold. I believe $200,000 Bitcoin, but I can't say when. And you know, if I did tell you when, u you shouldn't trust me because, you know, nobody really knows exactly when, >> right? >> But I think we can kind of look at it and and handicap the odds. And the odds are it's coming. We just don't know when. >> Okay. So So your big print thesis hasn't changed at all. Not at all. Yeah. So your confidence is still still unshaken. >> Um >> All right. ju just to try to stay in the nearer term and and I'm not asking you to make price predictions here in terms of X dollars by when but let's just go through each asset and I'd love to get a sense for what you see as the biggest drivers of price action in each. So like for example um well obviously for gold and silver of late um you know they had vertical runs right those things can't last um we all you know those of us who have been in the industry for a long time we were all warning people >> when you know silver punch through >> sentiment got incredibly lopsided I mean bullish sentiment on silver gold miners all 100% interestingly I get a I get sentiment digest sent to me every day it's a service I pay for. Right now, the sentiment on gold prices is negative, which is pretty rare. I mean, it kind of generally ranges between zero and 100 positive and right now it's running like 17% negative. So, >> that's impressive that gold's still at 4,700 with >> Well, that's my point, right? I mean, it's like it's kind of like we've shaken out the tourists and people are pretty scared. And I talked to, you know, the best analysts on gold or the people who most people follow on gold, the gold mining analysts in Toronto and a lot of them they're they're starting to build their models with lower numbers again. And that just tells you that they're thinking, you know, these numbers aren't going to hold. >> And and that, you know, I take the other side of that bet. And particularly, we're going to talk about opportunities maybe later in this in this conversation. >> We will. >> The silver miners are just it's unbelievable. I mean, that the, you know, they I mean, silver went up a lot, right? It went from low 30s the beginning of last year to 120 briefly and 70s something now. And and most of these companies try they spend about $25 to pull an ounce out of the ground. So in the low30s, they're making $10 an ounce. Well, at 70, suddenly they're making $50 an ounce, you know, and that's a 5x increase. And yet, I can assure you that most silver stocks have not gone up 5x, >> right? >> So, their profits have gone up 5x. The stocks haven't gone up 5x. Why? Because people don't think the silver price going to last, >> right? They don't believe it yet. >> It's a bubble, right? >> Yeah. So, so anyways, to my point that that um that froth had to come out, right? So, I don't think we're shocked about that, but that's been driving the short-term price action, right? is the the the the mandatory froth removal. But with gold, um you know, we're seeing reports uh you know, so central banks have been big marginal buyers of gold um of the past bunch of years. But now we're seeing central banks like the central bank of Turkey unloading their gold um or at least I shouldn't say unloading but but but selling their gold. And that's >> that that that's to have to deal with the higher oil prices. It's trying to keep a lid on their currencies. Um, so my question is is is is this short-term stuff that's sort of related to the oil price shock and stuff related to the war that that should should revert back afterwards or is this a new trend? >> No, I think I really do think it's short term. But it's interesting. Russia has sold some gold, but that's because, >> you know, they're they're getting paid in yuan for for all the oil they sell to China and they can only use so much yuan to to buy Chinese goods with. know maybe they convert some in into gold over there and they're not reporting it but >> they've been selling gold because they need rubles in order to you know to pay their salaries of you know their their military and so forth. So yeah, the other thing I've heard and we talked to my partner and I were talking to a guy from Dubai recently. I mean, so you're in the Middle East, you own a bunch of gold and you decide you want to get out of there for all the obvious reasons. Uh, and gold is effectively cash. Well, what do you do? You can't wire transfer your gold from the Middle East to somewhere else, but you can sell it and the cash you get, you can wire that out or you can put it into Bitcoin and move it on the blockchain. So >> yeah, >> so there have been some selling pressures and things like that. But I I think I think the underlying trend in, you know, money that can't be printed, gold, silver, Bitcoin is up and to the right. I mean, I I just I strongly believe that, but I just think we're in one of those periods where we're we're having a natural check back and, you know, it's bull markets try and throw off as many riders as possible. So, >> Right. Right. Well, and I'm wondering too if if there isn't you you sort of started your answer by saying well look if there's a big you if the S&P tanks from here there's going to be a brief period where all correlations go to one and everything's going to get sold because of margin calls and stuff like that there may be there may be kind of a global margin call going on right now with the price of oil right where it's like hey I got to buy oil so I got to sell stuff to buy it and then the S&P while it's not tanking you know it's down seven 8% % since the high. So >> yeah, it's leaking and therefore some people might be getting, >> you know, margin calls. Not extreme, but some, right? >> Yeah. I mean, it's it's the market's traditionally always weak around this time. You got to remember, um, you know, everybody's going to have to write a tax check in a couple of weeks, and so that always tends to have some people selling stocks to because they've got to, you know, raise cash to pay their tax bill in the in the United States anyway. So, um, yeah, it look to me this is just part of the up down cycle in this area and it really it actually represents kind of an opportunity um, you know, for people who weren't invested in these assets and watch them take off and kind of I had friends say, "Oh god, Bitcoin at 125, I missed it." Or gold at 5,000, I missed it. And of course, the ironic thing is I call them out and say, "Hey, you know what? You got you got an opportunity here. You know, gold's down substantially. Bitcoin's down half 50%. Why don't you come after it? And they're kind, I don't know. You know, >> I don't want to catch a falling knife. Yeah. >> Yeah. I don't want to catch a falling knife. Where's the bottom? And you know, look, I don't know where the bottom is. Nobody does. I mean, you can't. But, you know, I mean, I I I kind of evaluate risk and reward. And I look for asymmetry. And I'm I'm very very convinced that they're they're asymmetrically there's a lot more upside in all three of these things than there is downside. I mean, could they all go down another they they could all go down another 10% tomorrow. They could all go down probably 30% in a correlation to one event, but you know, they also have the potential to double or triple when Kevin Walsh becomes, you know, Fed chairman in a little over a month and a half. And, you know, I don't think he got that job by, you know, saying he's going to do hawkish stuff. I mean, I I think my sense, and this is just a guess, I I have no knowledge, no insider knowledge whatsoever, but knowing how things work down there, my sense is they're crafting something in their back pocket that's going to look like a big print that's going to involve a lot of money creation. Now, you know, maybe it'll be done by the banks through some special lending program where they'll let the banks, you know, buy, you know, they'll they'll lend money to the banks for at a lower rate in order to buy bonds specifically and hold them for a fixed period of time. I mean, they'll have a new term for it, right? I mean, you know, the most recent one is not QE, right? It's it's reserved. >> Whatever you call it, it's not QE. >> Yeah. But, but you and I both I mean, when you look through it, at the end of the day, they'll be putting more money into the system because mathematically they have to, Adam, that's the thing. I mean, I just, you know, look, I'm not smart enough to know what all the moves are going to be. But I can look at the math pretty clearly and I can see the problem. And, you know, how does this get resolved? I mean, I there isn't other there is another choice. They could let everything collapse. You know, they could they could let it be a 1929, but do you really think that at the end of the day, forced, you know, faced with that, they're going to do it and they're not going to print? I mean, I don't >> Would would any s sitting politician or central planner let that happen on their watch? No. >> No. They just can't. So, so it it's to me it's it's, you know, it's it's an interesting trade because you can be very highly confident you're right, but you got to be patient. >> Right. Right. you know, you >> and and to be honest, guys like you and I have been in the sound money trade. >> Oh, yeah. Like dead ass wrong. But now, you know, now it's it's kind of events are kind of proving us generally right, but you know, the slope of the curve, the timing of the events, all that stuff, it's hard to know. It's very hard to know. >> Okay. So, I do want to ask you about the the Fed under Worse, but just let me let me go through the other two >> the other two assets. So, silver, um, you know, much more speculative, but it also has much more commercial use. >> Um, I I talked to Andy Sheckchman frequently on this program. Not sure how well you might know him, but, um, >> yeah, I love him. He's great. >> Great, great guy. Right. And and super, you know, he's there in the trenches, right? He's he's he's there watching ounces move all the time. Y >> and he remains gobsmacked by the amount of flows of uh of silver both coming into the comics from uh the LBMA uh but also that's been then been getting removed from the comics because people are standing for delivery right highest levels of his his multi-deade career >> London too same story I mean the London exchange is down to you know air fumes Right. >> Yeah. And so in a lot of these cases, he's like, look, I'm trying to think who can take >> delivery of that many ounces and store them, transport and store them. That that's that's not like a state actor, right? It's not like a sovereign nation, right? So clearly there's still a ton of of and it hasn't diminished with with silver coming down from 120 to 60 something >> that those flows have not diminished. And so I guess the question is is in your mind how you know what's going to what's going to give here? Is it going to be that the demand is going to level off because silver is now stuck at a lower price or you know silver's eventually going to have to react to say look the the stores are almost I mean they're not quite drained yet I don't want to be hyperbolic about it but there is so much more silver being taken out of the exchanges that >> I think with a lot of the others you know there are a lot of great monetary analysts and people who dig into all those flows very carefully and I follow all of them you know I think at the end of the today the paper market is collapsing and it's going to come down to being a physical market >> and you can't print silver and so you know price discovery is just going to lead to higher prices I mean we've already seen you know a real gap between the prices in the in the west the US and the prices in China and you know it's getting used heavily in China that's the thing I mean the thing about silver it's really neat the way it's kind of a dual use metal I mean one it's got this monetary property being scarce and being kind of a cheaper form of sound money than gold but it also gets used in solar particularly and you know the the current estimates are that you know China in a few years will absorb 50% of the annual silver supply and we also know from all this looking at the statistics that they've been running a silver deficit you know for three four years at least in terms of we've been you know more silver is being used in industry than we're mining and so you know eventually that's got to give and I think I think that's what initially broke us out of the $50 price cap which had been in place for a long time. Well, really forever. We'd never been above 50 >> and and and had barely ever been at it too. Just >> Yeah. Right. We only had it briefly. We were at it with the Hunts and then we were at it in 2011. Um and so, you know, you you've got an enormously long base of silver prices under 50. We broke through it. You know, and typically anyone who studies commodities and commodity trading patterns knows that, you know, when you break through a, you know, a 50-year ceiling, you know, you don't just go up 50%, which is what we are now. We're at 75, up 50% from the 50, you know, I mean, you go up multiples of the ceiling you broke through. So, I, you know, and and the silver to gold ratio has been coming down and it could go down a lot further. I mean, you know, for much of history, silver, the silver to gold ratio is about 15%. So, uh, or I mean 15x. So, you know, and that, by the way, is geologically what's going on in the world. I mean, we mine about 15 ounces of silver for every 1 ounce of gold. Um, and so, you know, um, you know, silver silver can easily be and has in the past been 3% of the price of gold. So, if gold's at 5,000, silver should be at 150. >> We're at 75. And, you know, I think gold's going to six or 7,000. So, 3% of that is, you know, 180. And you know there were on peaks you know silver's been 6% the price of gold that's closer to the 15 ratio. So you know six times you know say $7,000 gold that's $400 silver. I mean >> right all those numbers are a long ways away. And and here's the thing. Here's the investment implication of that that I'm just so excited about with my fund and I you know want to tell people to focus on is these silver miners just still do not reflect that. I mean, go to Tavi Costa's thread on Twitter and look at the silver miner to the silver price chart. You might have to scroll back a few days or weeks to find it, but it's there. And what you'll see is that the miners just have not responded. And so these miners are going to just if and the miners I know what's going on. People who own the mining stocks are thinking, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, it broke out above 50, but it's coming back to 50." And yeah, they'll make money, but not that much. Well, I disagree. it's going to 150 or 200 and at that point they're going to make so much money, you know, it's going to be amazing and and so these stocks have a long way to go to catch up. >> Um I've seen and heard from many folks that just interviewed Rick Rule about it um for my conference a week ago. >> Yeah. um saying echoing what you just said but also saying you know in particular the the royalty companies and streamers >> look particularly attractive here because they have >> they're immune from all these things like higher oil prices and stuff like that right >> yeah it's interesting though that that you know one of the arguments is well yeah now we got higher priced oil and so the miners profit margins are gonna are going to get compressed well in the past oil was you know six or seven% of the value of of of um of silver and now it's like 2% of the value of silver and so so you know oil can go up a fair amount without really impacting these you know these margins. Um so I that's it's just not something I I worry about that much. Um but yeah to me it's it's just a it's a big it's a big fat opportunity staring you in the face and you know and I mean you can just play it with the indices. You can buy SIL or you can buy SILJ. They're just two ETFs that own silver miners, but they're within those. They're they're much they're smaller companies, better companies. You can pick names and you know, >> and in your fund, is that what you're doing? Are you >> I'm [laughter] doing Yeah, I'm picking the names. I mean, um you know, I mean, I'll just I'll mention one that I love. I I bought recently was Aeno uh Aeno Silver, you know. I mean, and this is a stock I'll show you a chart of I mean this so Aeno and it wasn't by the way it wasn't overvalued but Aeno you know it was $12 two months ago and it's at $6 right now right I mean it's it's back to the price that it's back to the price that it was at in December and in you know December silver was lower price than it is now so >> um you know if you assume if you assume that I'm right about s higher silver prices these stocks are badly mispriced. Yeah, maybe a better way to say it is if you were one of those people sitting on the sidelines when sober started to go parabolic and you said, "Man, I should have been on this train, but I don't want to get on it now because it's it's probably whoever price." Here's the train just came back to your >> train. You just got a second chance. And yet the hard part is, you know, the sentiment is like, "Oh, I don't know. The thing's just down 50%. Maybe it's going down even more." You know, I mean, I I had a friend who a very wealthy friend who I convinced to take a 5% allocation in Bitcoin last year and he was buying it at 100, 110, 120 and and you know, he didn't get to his whole 5% because he was dollar cost averaging, which is smart. And he called me a month ago and he said, "Shit, you know, I'm only about halfway there, but it's down to 65. Should I keep going?" And I was like, "Dude, it's on sale." You know, I mean, when when you know, you go to the supermarket and the fillet is normally 30 bucks. They're selling it for 15 unless it's rancid, you buy it. Right. Right. >> And that's, you know, I don't think Bitcoin's rancid. So to me, Bitcoin, I mean, you know, if you look at kind of the asymmetry right now, you know, and you look at the gold, you look at the gold to Bitcoin ratio. Bitcoin is cheaper than gold right now on a relative basis. And so, you know, actually at the end of last year, I was selling some gold related things and buying some Bitcoin related things. >> Okay. Um, so I want to get to Bitcoin in just a second about price drivers, but um, one thing I want to note just about your approach is yes, uh, and and folks like Rick Rule have long said, hey, look, if you're if you're not well experienced in this space, there's plenty of opportunity just in the beta of the sector. So just own the ETFs and and let the beta do your work for you. >> Absolutely. You don't need you don't need to pick individual names. And by the way, if you do some >> Yeah. So So two things there's there's two sides to this. One is look folks, commodities are volatile in general. Precious metals certainly silver very much so and the miners are volatile on steroids. So you got to you got to know what you're getting into here. >> But the benefit of doing what you're doing, Larry, if you if you are um you know intelligent about it and by intelligent I mean you have really researched these companies, you understand the sector, all that stuff which a frankly a lot of individual investors don't. um you either want to become that educated yourself or you want to hitch your wagon to somebody who is and there are people out there who who absolutely you know their entire career is just following this sector and going out and doing mind visits and they they know the management and all that stuff. >> Yeah. But the benefit of doing what [clears throat] Larry's doing, it's kind of the Warren Buffett approach, which is you can own SIL or SILJ, but you own all the companies in the sector. And especially in this sector, there are a ton of dogs. So, you own the diamonds as well as the dogs where if you are smart enough and and disciplined enough to really build a portfolio of the best of the best, >> well, then you're going to outperform because you've you've gotten rid of a huge chunk of the dog risk. Correct. Correct. But you know, even then it's I mean it's none of us ever really know. Absolutely, Adam. I mean I have companies I think are you know diamonds and they turn into dogs. I mean [laughter and gasps] it's a tough sector. I mean you know it's it's it's a it's a rough game. I mean um but you know I I will say that it's it's much better to be buying when the sentiment is the way the sentiment is today. I mean, I think a lot of these stocks will double or triple. And so, you know, you can do what a lot of people in this resource sector do with these things being so volatile is, you know, they buy them and then when they double, they sell half and take their bait back and then they're playing with house money. Right. >> Right. >> Um it's not it's not a bad strategy. A lot of people do it and I understand it makes sense. Um because I you know I think I mean I only I mean I will say this any stock I buy if if I don't think it'll at least triple I'm not even going to touch it. >> That's that's how volatile these things are. Now it also means it can go down 50% too. >> Right. Right. Yeah. Remember that. Yeah. That volatility cuts both ways. Um so Larry I'm curious in your fund right now are you fully allocated? >> We are. We don't have much cash. We're not on margin although we're thinking of getting there. We're we we have the ability to go on margin. We never go heavily margin. Maybe we'll do 10% 15% on margin. And we do that we do that when we see something as a screaming buy. And the reason we're not margined is that possibility of the correlation of one event. So um and I, you know, just to put odds on it, I kind of rate it as 80% we're going to just kind of muddle through and go higher and not have that correlation one event. The Fed's going to print and it's not going to maybe be quite as big a print as I thought, but it's going to be big enough to keep driving all this stuff higher. That's my base case. My 20% case is something breaks. You know, we put boots on the ground, stock market tanks, private credit blows up, who knows? Some unknown thing >> and we have a correlation of one event and >> Okay. But that support your print thesis. >> Yeah. The hu and then they print like crazy. And if that happens, I want to have some margin capability to buy some things. And and we will we'll be buying with both fists at that time. >> Okay. All right. Um well, let me know when you let let me >> You'll know. You'll know. It'll be it'll be obvious. And and by the way, you won't feel like buying because I remember I remember March of 2020 like it was yesterday and I'd just been blown out of my short. I I was stupid. I'll tell this story. I owned a bunch of silver. I took I took delivery of a bunch of silver contracts off the comx in the 80s. I put them in the trunk of my car and bought them. >> You told me you had the comx bars the >> I had those in a depository and stupid me I could borrow against them because rates were low. I could borrow against him at like 3% and I thought, well, that's smart. I'll do that. And so, you know, I I took out, you know, 60 70% of my equity of all those bars and went and invested in other stuff. And then March of 2020 hit and silver went from 21 to 11 in three days. And I got a call that said, "If you don't send x amount of money here in the next 24 hours, we're going to blow you out." [laughter] And and so I I very quickly figured out how to get that money because I didn't want to sell all my silver at $11. So and and that was a it was a very good lesson for me about the dangers of using margin. And so yes, >> I've I've told Bitcoiners and I've told all people in this space that story number of times as a cautionary tale. >> Yeah. To to counter some of the Michael Sailor enthusiasm of a second mortgage on your house. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Marie, look, these these assets are extremely asymmetric. And if we're right, you're going to make a lot of money in these things. I mean, much more than 20 or 30% a year. And as you, as most of us who are investing world know, if you can compounded anything north of 10 or 12% a year over a bunch of time, you get really crazy rich. So, you know, you don't need to use leverage to have this stuff work. Right. >> Right. Right. And again, that goes back to I mean, you can you can just play the safe beta play with no margin and still probably do pretty well. you do fine by the end of the season, you'll do fine. If if we're right about the thesis, I mean to just, you know, word of caution and everyone laughs when I say this, but you know, >> I'll have a new investor thinking of coming into my fund and if they're smart, they'll say, "What could go wrong?" And I'll say, "Well, I'll tell you what could go wrong." The government gets incredibly responsible and balances the budget, >> right? >> You know, and and of course they laugh and I laugh, too. And we all know that doesn't seem very likely today, but stranger shits happen. So if I see things going in that direction, then this thesis won't be as good a thesis. But right now, I'm with Lynn. I don't think anything stops this train. So >> and I [clears throat] think most people are with you on that one, Larry. >> It seems like a high probability, doesn't it? [laughter] >> I don't see too many people betting on Poly Market, you that we're gonna have a balanced budget next year. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Yeah. Okay. Um All right. So, you mentioned him briefly, but um well, [clears throat] actually, first before I get to Kevin Wars specifically, [snorts] um I I was thinking of you when I was watching uh the clip of of Jerome Pal being interviewed recently. >> Oh my god, wasn't that awful? Well, I mean, it it just seemed kind of the height of uh hypocrisy, at least to me, and you might think differently, but to be sitting here basically, you know, all of a sudden delivering a loud warning about America's insolveny from its its uh, you know, exponential debt problem, and it's like I I don't disagree with that conclusion at all, but you were like the chief enabler over the past seven years. >> Yeah. It's like drug, you know, drug dealer, you know, warns addicts of drug use. I mean, come on, dude. I mean, you know, you're, you know, in 2019, you took, you know, you turned on a dime, you pal pivoted, you took rates to zero. I mean, you totally enabled this. Then COVID came, you all panicked and, you know, over this silly flu and you printed$5 trillion in, you know, nine months. I mean, come on, give me a break. I mean, it's all these He's just trying to scrub his legacy. I mean, there was a more recent one today. I think I retweeted it. It was maybe it was yesterday. You know, Warren Buffett's out there saying that, you know, yeah, he'd prefer to have zero inflation. Well, you know, why weren't you talking about that when you were, you know, younger? And you were saying the gold standard sucked. I mean, you know, he benefits from this money printing. Always has. And and so now he's older and retire, you know, retired. And, you know, I mean, look, we got the receipts. You know, we know what these people did. [laughter] And you can't you can't now come come around and say, "Well, I'm a sound money advocate when for all these years you played the system in the other direction." So, yeah. I I got no use for Powell. I'm I'm you know I'm just and I and I'm kind of frustrated. I was hoping he wouldn't get out of here without his reputation getting damaged, but it looks like he will. >> Unless unless we have a you know unless we have a correlation to one event in the next what is it six weeks he's going to escape. So that's uh that doesn't seem like karma to me but so be it. I mean >> well and it's not unprecedented. I mean Owen Greenspan you know huge gold advocate until he became Fed chair. And of course he wasn't. And then afterwards he started >> as he told Brian London that you know it's it's it's intoxicating you know controlling the money supply for the world. It's an intoxicating position and >> that's great. I'm glad they feel good about it because the rest of us suffer for it. So >> it is what it is. >> It is what it is. Well, okay. So we're gonna hopefully uh have a new head at the helm [laughter] soon with Kevin Worsh provided he gets nom he gets confirmed and all that stuff. um which I think he will be. Um what what are your thoughts about what a Kevin Porsche >> Yeah, I've read all his stuff. I don't I don't think he's as hawkish as they say and I think I've said on other pods. I I think they had to have somebody who they thought they could sell as being hawkish to do a really dovish move. Just like you never could have had George McGovern go open up China because, you know, he was a liberal. You had to have a hard ass like Nixon and Kissinger go to open up China. And so I think but I don't think he would have gotten chosen for the job if he hadn't basically made a few promises about where he wants to go with all this. And um and therefore and I and I don't think you know as much as I think these people are sneaky, I don't think they're stupid. And so um you know like I say I'm pretty sure what's going on is they've got something cooked up. And that's why you know people say well when could all this when could these assets start to really perform? I mean, we might only have to wait six weeks because my sense is he'll get sworn in. The next Fed meeting after that, I think is in June, but my sense is he won't necessarily wait until the meeting if they've got a plan in their back pocket, which they intend to implement. Um, and I'm guessing they probably do, you know, they're going to make an argument that AI and productivity is, you know, even though inflation's printing high, it's all temporary because just the war and oil and all that stuff. And therefore, we really need to cut Fed's funds rates very aggressively. We need to take it, you know, from where it is today, we need to take it at least 100 basis points, maybe 200 basis points. >> And, you know, and by the way, if if the long bond doesn't respond well to that, they have a program in the back pocket for that, too. That's really yield curve control, but they'll rebrand it and, you know, hide it as something else. >> Interestingly though, Worsh has said that he would much rather rely on rates than printing. >> Um, he he has been vocal saying, "Look, I I we do need to shrink this balance sheet." So yeah, and even Moran published a paper on that recently and I that's all that's all well and good is until as Tyson said until they get punched in the face. So yeah. >> Okay. So take the rates down. Great. So now the 10ear goes to five on its way to six, you know. Um or may or may maybe it doesn't but I think it does >> buy the treasury. But you know they can control the Fed funds rate in the short end and once they take that down you know I got to believe the longer end does not react positively to that and so that and that becomes a problem that becomes a serious problem I >> unless you know as the Lacy Hunts of the world think uh this oil price shock while it might be inflationary in the immediate term is actually going to hasten a a deflationary >> uh decline of the economy right with demand destruction uh Yeah, >> no question. And and and and that's and they might the Middle East, you know, oil will go back down to where it was and the inflation won't be printing so high and and so on and so forth. But I think I think at the end of the day, the bond markets have told us that, you know, and and really the price of gold, silver, and Bitcoin have told us. I mean, you know, forget the recent pullback, Adam. I mean, go back a year or two. Um, I mean these all these markets are up enormously. I mean, you know, gold was $3,000, $2,000, not but a couple years ago, and silver was under 50. Bitcoin, you know, Bitcoin four, three years ago in 2022 was 15, you know, and everyone complains, well, Bitcoin really sucks at 65. Well, >> not if you bought it at 15. And I mean, it does if you bought it at 125, but I guess the point is that these markets are telling us that faith in the currency is being lost. Oh, and by the way, you know, losing a war in the Middle East isn't exactly going to help, you know, faith in this currency. I mean, part of the part of the faith in the US assets, US dollar, US, everything was the fact that we were supposed to be guaranteeing security for the Gulf and we had the strongest and best military in the world. And, you know, sadly, it it seems like that, you know, that belief is getting punctured. And so, you know, you you look at that and I just I'm not a bull on on where the dollar is going compared to sound forms of money. Okay. All right. Um, and I do want to ask you about the implications of the war real quick. Um, folks watching, um, we got a little bit of time left. And, uh, if you've got any questions for Larry, ask them in the live chat there and I'll pull them in, um, as we have time. So, you know, on that point, Larry, um, uh, I'm curious what you think the impact of the war is going to be, um, uh, you know, over the next year, uh, here in America. is in and let me let me give you two options and you can obviously pick pick those two or any any other you like. Um one it could just mean a lot more debt, right? We got to increase military spending and we've got to rebuild all the armaments that we just blew up and and the rest of the world doesn't even wants to buy our treasuries less now and the dollar weakens as you just said. Is it more that or is it more hey uh and it doesn't sound like you think this way, but just to put the other argument out there. Hey, we just made the world a safer place, right? Iran is is is vastly diminished from what it was before. we're out of there. And now all the tailwinds that were beginning at the beginning of the year in terms of stronger economic growth, um, you know, the benefits of deregulation, the tax cuts, the tariff revenues, everything like that, that's going to really let the e economic growth really start to flourish here. >> Well, I mean, I I can see both sides of that argument, and I I think I think the right answer is probably to split the baby. It's somewhere in the middle. I mean it, you know, >> wars are expensive. Um, and wars are going to create, you know, create a lot of dislocations in the energy market. Um, that will get repaired, but not overnight. I mean, the the damage to the LG facilities is not great. I mean, um, inflation in Europe is going to be high as a result of that. Um, you know, you got the cracks in private credit which I think, you know, aren't good. um and and might ultimately drag the market down. >> I don't know, Adam. I I I really I don't know how to handicap it because there's just so many damn moving pieces. I really don't. I I do know I do strongly believe though and I I think they'll back away from it. U my base cases are going to back away from it. But I strongly believe that if they make the mistake of putting boots on the ground um you know that that's going to really uh that's not going to be good uh at any level for the safety of our soldiers um you know peace etc etc. I mean the whole notion of escalation and I mean there's a whole camp that says that you know they they're going to just keep escalating because you know they got pictures of Trump and they can blackmail him. I mean who the hell knows? I don't know if that's true, but you know, but but the point is I mean I mean I think most intelligent analysts would say that escalation does not make sense that you know it's not this is not a ground where we want to be fighting. This is not a war that we can really win. Um and that the smartest thing we could do would be just to step back from it and uh and declare victory whether we've achieved it or not. That's a debatable point. Um and I pray and hope that's what happens because I I hate war and I hate death and I you know I think the whole thing is just tragic and stupid. But uh but setting that aside, you know, it's hard to say. It's it's really hard to say. I mean, I think I think we will continue to limp forward as a nation. There are a lot of good things going on here. Um AI is helping in a lot of respects. Um it will add to productivity, etc. So, >> let me just interject with this. Let's say the war didn't happen. >> Yeah. >> Right. How bullish were you coming into this year? >> Uh I was reasonably bullish actually. Um I was reasonably bullish. I mean, I've always had in the back of my mind the belief that the bond and stock market are fake and that the prices there are fake because of the fiat currency. You know what I mean? I mean that that absolutely know what you mean. >> They exist at that level just because of the fiat currency and what I call quote unquote the Fed put that you know they're just not going to let them go down period. That's you know now um you know and that's that's okay. That's one way to run things but the the cost of that is inflation. right? The cost of that is monetary debasement and inflation. That's what my whole thesis is built upon. So I would say I was moderately bullish that you know things would kind of keep on going because they would just keep on printing the money. Now the problem is and I don't we don't have the chart here but if you search some of my more recent podcasts with other people you can see a chart that kind of shows the growth of the money supply versus the growth of the debt. And you know what happened what the chart shows is that when the when the money supply doesn't when the debt gets too large relative to the money supply a print has to occur. And so you saw you saw it happen in '08 and you saw it happen in 2020. And the the two lines have crossed right now in in 2025 in the same way that they did those last two times. And that's why I kind of say mathematically, you know, just I mean I think this little print this 40 billion a month um that's not going to get it done. It's going to have to get bigger than that. And so, um, I do feel, you know, I wrote the book and I put my neck out on the line saying this thing's going to happen. I'm pretty sure it will. I kind of hope it happens within five years so I don't look like a complete idiot. [laughter] I'm pretty sure it will, but >> which is which is going to be conflicting, right? Because you don't want like a bonfire of the currency to happen, you know, >> just based on Yeah. No, I look there's no part of me that wants to see people suffer or wants to see things go in a bad direction. I mean, you know, I mean, some people say, "Oh, you're you're you know, you're a boomer and you're a doomer." No, I'm not. I'm very optimistic about people, the world of condition, technology, all the great stuff that's coming. But but I'm I'm realistic about, you know, the system as it currently is and how broken it is. And until we reform it and we go back to sound money, you know, this is going to be a recurring problem where the debt grows. I mean, we just crossed 39 trillion of US debt and the interest expense is over a trillion a year. Um, this cannot be paid for without creating a lot more money. That's just a fact. That's math. So, or or just radically boosting economic growth, but >> yeah. So, so I mean, did I think the Dow would go up? Yeah, probably will. Why not? Did I think the bond market would hold together? Sure, it probably will. They're printing the money to hold it together. But guess what? I also think inflation is going to continue to rage. I mean, and I've said this in other podcasts, I really strongly believe this. The mistake I think a lot of people are now making is that they most people today, depending on what your age is, you've lived almost exclusively in a 40-year deflationary trend from 1980 to 19 to 2020. That's 40 years of deflation. Okay? And and we're not in that world anymore. You know, it co blew that world apart and we now live in an inflationary world full stop until we return to sound money. Mhm. >> So, and that's and so you know, yeah, the Dow will keep going up, but so will inflation. You know, that's I guess that's my point. >> Okay. And you know, in that world nominally, stocks will still go up. >> Sure. >> But but to your point about, you know, the thesis of your big print, you're you're better off served in things that that can't >> I think so. I think inflation I think inflation protected things will exceed the amount of of appreciation in stocks. I mean, you know, the mag seven are already starting to leak. I mean, you know, the gold stocks are up a lot. I mean, not to brag, but I mean, factually, my fund was up 175% last year. I mean, that that kind of beat the market, right? [laughter] So, you know, it's like, yeah, I think this stuff is going to do better than that other stuff. And if you look at, you know, a good way to look at, let's look at the 70s, Adam. in the 70s the two best in and this is how I got into this trade you know when 2008 occurred they started printing money like crazy and I said to myself good god and I had some money saved up because I like you we were both in the dot thing and we made some money on that and so I said okay I got this money but I don't want it to you know I'm young enough that it's going to last a long time and I looked at it I said this you know QE came along I was like what they're printing money and you know zero interest rate what you can't do that so I said all right we're going to have inflation so I studied inflation I went and I looked at the 70s and if you look at the 70s The stock market was basically flat for 10 years and the two areas that performed the best were gold stocks and oil stocks. They compounded at close to 30% a year both those categories because of the inflation in the 70s and then Vulkar came in and he solved it and he was able to solve it because he took rates at 20% and debt to GDP was 35% and so he could solve it but you know as you now know debt to GDP is 125%. we can't take rates at 20% or everybody would go bankrupt. And so, you know, there isn't a solution until we stop printing money or return to sound money. And so, so to me, it's it's kind of an obvious thing, but I I think I think most investors, I mean, I was at a, you know, I was at a men's coffee earlier this week with a lot of guys my age who are quite wellto-d do, and they're all just like, "Yeah, it's all great. We're doing great. We love it. You know, let's just party on. You know, buy stocks and you're in good shape." And >> I just I'm I count me in as a skeptic. [laughter] >> All right. Um we've only gotten one question, so I'll ask it and then we'll start wrapping thing up things up. And I'm not sure what answer you have to this, Larry, other than buy gold, silver, and Bitcoin. >> Um what can you do in Europe to protect yourself from the inflation to come? >> That's a great question, and sadly, I think Europe's going to get hurt more than other areas. I mean, I do think you're you're you answered it for me. I think to the degree that you have savings, I mean, one, get out of Europe. They're probably cheaper places in the world to live. Um, and you know, the policies there have been so stupid. I mean, how about Germany getting rid of all their nuclear power? I mean, what are these people thinking? And of course, and we haven't helped. We blew up Nordstream. That didn't help. I, you know, if you have savings, I think you just have to save in sound money. I really do. And so um I think that you know a portfolio that includes you know silver gold silver gold miners bitcoin you know micro strategy um oil stocks you know commodity related things things that will protect you from inflation. I think that's that's to my way of seeing it that's kind of the no-brainer move for somebody who's not you know in the investment world full-time. I also think by the way that some of the US market has really dominated the world markets and I found some very interesting ETFs in in foreign markets like I think Brazil which is a huge commodity producer is very undervalued. Tavi cost has done a lot of great work on that. I read all his stuff. I highly recommend him as a follow >> and so I own Petro Brass. I own the Brazil ETF and you know the Singapore same thing. I mean there are other places you can invest outside of the United States which I think will do better than the US. >> Okay. And is that Brazil ETF EWZ? It is. Yeah, that's the one I know. >> Yeah. Yeah. And Petro Boss has has done very well this year. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, let's see here. Uh we have gotten a few more questions that just got squeezed in here. >> Uh how would you step into this market if you were in 100% cash right now? >> That's a really great question. >> Um well, it's I guess the first question would be, do you need any of that cash in the next five years? Do you have a five-year window? Because if you have a fiveyear window, I'd be fairly aggressive at probably deploying half of it right now into, you know, physical gold, physical silver, uh, gold mining stocks, silver stocks, uh, Bitcoin and Micro Strategy. I just start off right now, just do it. Get half of it into that. Then with the other half, I'd probably dollar cost average over the next year or so. um you know and and I'd have dry powder in case that 20% correlation to one event occurs. I mean if you put 100% in now and that correlation to one event occurs you're going to have a very tight sphincter you know riding that out because it's it's not going to be any fun. And I I think it's important. It's really important. And I've always told this to Bitcoiners when they buy the first Bitcoin, they say, "How much should I buy?" And I say, "Well, you should buy the amount where if it goes down 50%." You're thinking to yourself, "This is great. I can I can average down versus, oh my god, I made a mistake." >> Yeah. >> Because Bitcoin is the kind of asset that goes up and down 50% a lot. So, >> um, for a guy like this, and let me preface all this by saying what Larry's offering is not, um, specific individual financial advice. This is a broad broadbased Yeah. example. >> Um, I I'll give some instruction to folks that want to get specific advice in just a sec. Um, but to to somebody like this who's starting from scratch, um, how would you recommend they get into Bitcoin? you know, is it you got to buy the coins themselves and put it on a cold wallet? Is it better on an exchange or just on an ETF? >> Yeah. So, that's a great question and that's always, you know, that that's the ultimate form of Bitcoin ownership because the government can't take it away from you. They don't necessarily know you have it. You know, >> this is the cold wallet version, >> cold wallet, right route. But, but let's be realistic. That's not appropriate for a lot of people. It takes a certain amount of knowledge and learning and help and everything else. And I think in in in many cases the the best first step is just to buy one of the ETFs. I mean the two largest are the Fidelity one FBTC and the Black Rockck one IBIT. Personally I know the Fidelity people. I like them. I trust them. Um you know I have some IRA accounts that I can't really um take out and use for cold storage. So I you know I own FBTC and those IRA accounts. And so I think that's a good way to start. But I think then you you know you start educating yourself. You read the books. you you know you you get yourself an account at Strike or at River. I mean those are the two preferred brokers. Strike is the best kind of retail broker that'll allow you to buy things in Bitcoin using the you know the the lightning network. I was at this meeting and one of the guys said well yeah Bitcoin's great but you can't transact it. I said And I quickly had him download a wallet and I sent him a dollar you know and it cost a penny to do it. I mean you know Lightning makes Bitcoin super easy to use and for transactions. River is a more high it's a concier service that'll help you buy Bitcoin and store it for you and they'll teach you how to do the cold storage. So those are my two preferred sources but and I I'm a customer of both. I like the teams at both but um yeah I you know I think you just you just get some exposure to it and uh again you know it's volatile so you know buy an amount I mean even 5% is going to make a difference because I think it's going to go up 10x and then 10x again. I mean, we're talking over, you know, a decade or so, but um, you know, but but get some exposure to it because you really don't want to have zero exposure to something with this kind of asymmetric, you know, profile and this kind of optionality. >> I mean, if you put 5% of your net worth in here and Bitcoin fails, you lose 5%. >> But if you don't put 5% in and this thing goes up 10x, which I think it will, you know, you're going to regress the fact that you you didn't, you know, you didn't half your portfolio could have been Bitcoin. So, on a 5% bet. >> Okay. All right. Last question here is a little on the dark side. Um, you don't you don't need to give more than just a quick answer because we could probably make a whole podcast on this. >> Yeah. >> Um, how much longer until the majority rebels and comes after the top one? [clears throat] >> Well, that is dark. Yeah. The uh read The Mandibles and No, that's that's one uh it's a good Have you read that, Adam, yet? No. The Mandibles The Mandibles by Lionel Strive. >> No. It's a book that if you want to if you want to explore the dark side of a currency failure, that book is probably the best novel written on the topic. The mandibles sh highly recommended. It is dark. Um I don't know. I mean, I hope you know, look, I I I poor violence in all its forms. Um I hope the 1% just kind of fails as a result of holding the wrong assets and those who hold the right assets, you know, are enriched in the process and that, you know, we we establish a fairer world. that's that's really the right way for this to occur. Um, you know, it's it doesn't it doesn't have to be violent. Um, you know, it can just it can just be monetary. I mean, if everybody, you know, holds the wrong money and that money fails, well, guess what? They're going to be disadvantaged. And the people who hold the right money, they're going to do better and then they're going to be in a position to set the terms for how the society works and it's going to be, you know, more fair. And that I think that's really all we want. That's what the book talks about. about I mean we just in my book we just want to have a fair world where the playing field is level and you know because the Federal Exer reserve exists you know we don't have a level playing field so my shameless plug you can go to Amazon you can buy it >> hold it hold it a little higher >> yeah little higher there you go yeah >> yeah so it's uh sales have really really fallen off but it's done well I think I've sold about 55,000 copies I'm trying to get a publisher but it's so edgy that you know the publishers won't touch Did you say 55,000? >> Yeah. >> That's a lot. That's like a That's a quite a successful book. >> I don't know, man. There's 300 million people in this country. It's like, come on, guys. >> I know. But but I mean, sadly for book sales, um I've done a little bit of book selling. Um you know, like 20,000 is is not bad today. I mean, people don't read the way they used to and all that stuff, but >> Well, that's right. That is true. But >> whatever. I mean, I just look, I I just want to spread the word for sound money because the the book really actually goes to more than just profit and loss. It's, you know, I I think this is the the country was a great country in 1946 after we won World War II. And and uh you know, we've kind of gone in the wrong direction for a long long time. And that's what this fourth turn the fourth turning in my view that we're in right now. It's all about going in the right direction again. And and the way to, you know, the most fundamental thing we can do to start going in the right direction is to fix the money and get back to a sound money standard. And that, you know, we had a better world when we were on the gold standard. Period. >> You mean you mean fix the money, fix the world. Is that what you're saying? >> Yeah. Something like that. Yeah. That's one of those. By the way, >> heard that somewhere from somebody. >> Credit to Marty Bent. Marty Bent was the first person to say that. And I think he I think you know remember that was the show Save the Cheerleaders Save the World. What was that? That was a show. >> That was Heroes. Yeah. >> Heroes. Yeah, I think he took it off of that. Yeah. So, fix the money, fix the world. >> Fix the money, fix the world. Um, all right, my friend. Well, look, um, thank you so much for this. So, um, beyond buying your book, um, if folks want to follow you >> on Twitter, I make a lot of noise. Um, I'm also aggressive. I I'm >> I'm at that stage now, Adam, where I'm just not putting up with any nonsense. So, you give me any I'm gonna block you really quick. [laughter] It's just >> um All right. But you're just Larry Leard on X, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. Lawrence Leard. It's just my name on Twitter. And then I have a website. Actually, some people do get a benefit. We write my partner David Foley who's brilliant. He and I, we write a quarterly letter talking about all these things with charts and argue, you know, supporting our argument. You can find all that on our website. It's ema2.com there. It's free. You can put your email address in there. We'll send it to you. We'll never spam you with other And uh every quarter we kind of it's you know 15 pages of here's what happened and here's what we think the sound money thesis is and um you know etc. So like I say it's free uh if if you're interested in reading that. >> Okay. So let's just to make sure I got these right. You're laurens.com. >> Exactly. Perfect. You got it. >> You got it. We want to make sure people are going to the right places. Um and then also folks um uh if you would like to get some guidance from a professional financial advisor on how to invest in this world whether it's precious metals whether it's Bitcoin whether it's other hard assets or or just in general kind of a big print uh you know defensive portfolio um if you don't already have a good financial adviser who understands all that well takes all this stuff into consideration that Larry and I have been talking out. Feel free to talk to one of the ones that Thoughtful Money endorses. Um, if you are a regular watcher of this channel, um, you're familiar with these folks around with me on this channel week in and week out. Uh, the you can just go to thoughtfulmoney.com right there and fill out the very short form there. If you're a new user coming in from Larry's audience, um, these consultations are totally free. There's no commitments involved. Um, these folks will just sit down, understand your particular situation, then they'll tell you what they think you should do. And you can go off and do it yourself if you want to. If you're a DIY investor, if you want to hand those notes to your existing financial adviser and say, "I like what these guys said. Do this." You can do that, too. Um, or if you want to keep talking with them about maybe being a potential client of theirs, you can do that, too. Whatever works for you. But the point is is um, there are folks there that can help you for free. And then the last um if you want to um you know buy some uh precious metals, I don't have a solution for Bitcoin, but if you want to buy some precious metals, um as I mentioned earlier in this conversation, I have Andy Sheckchman on this channel um weekly or almost weekly with me. And Andy is the CEO of Miles Franklin. They are the um endorsed precious metal solution by Thala Money. Andy is actually offering a special exclusive offer to this audience, which is to be able to buy junk silver from him. He says he's never seen the conditions this good in his entire career. You can buy junk silver from Miles Franklin for a $150 under spot, which is like never happened before in Andy's career. If you want to take advantage of that or just get some help from his team in any questions you have about buying, storing, or selling precious metals, just go to thoughtfulmoney.combygold. Uh there's a tiny little form. It takes you all 10 seconds to fill out and then Andy and his team will be in touch with you right away. Um Lawrence, my friend, go ahead. Before we move on, let me just support you on that. Um, he didn't mention the name, but you know, New Harbor Financial is the group that Adam works with and John Landre and his partner there. I know him pretty well and it's it's really a great group and if you know, if I weren't managing my own fund, I mean, this is the this kind of group of guys that I would definitely want to have helping me sort this stuff out. So, I I can highly recommend those guys. >> That is so kind of you. And that sound you hear, I'm sure, is the New Harbor guys furiously racing [laughter] to cut you a check or send you a gift. >> Listen, that clip will be all over the web, right? >> Yeah, exactly. U but no, I I I appreciate that. I know they very much appreciate that endorsement there, Larry. Um well, Larry, again, I can't thank you enough um for coming on and sharing your expertise, but also >> I always enjoy I always enjoy chatting with you. the the pre-show chat is the most interesting because Adam and I talk about our workout schedules and our injuries [laughter] and we we share he's not quite as old as I am but we share the the aging athlete syndrome which is you can't do what you used to be able to do and it's annoying >> right but it doesn't mean we still don't keep chasing >> we keep trying we definitely keep trying >> yeah well look um Larry thank you so much everybody watching in the live chat please express your gratitude ude for Larry for coming on here. Um, and Larry, let's let's hopefully do this again soon. >> Anytime. Thanks. >> All right. And everybody else, thanks so much for watching.