Jim Rogers: Out Of US Stocks, Not A Bubble Yet & Holding Not Buying Gold
Summary
Macro Outlook: Jim Rogers warns the US market’s record-long rise shows bubble-like traits, prompting him to sell all US equities and consider future shorts.
Debt & Policy Risks: He highlights unprecedented US debt and ongoing money printing, expressing concern about potential crises and questioning central bank independence.
Precious Metals: Bullish on gold and silver as long-term hedges against debt and inflation; holding positions and looking to add on pullbacks.
China: Still holding Chinese equities as the market makes new highs and the economy improves, but he is not adding and is closely monitoring.
Short-Selling Signals: He’s watching for classic mania signs—career shifts into investing and widespread euphoria—before initiating shorts.
Positioning: Out of US stocks, maintaining precious metals exposure, and selectively watching smaller markets while prioritizing caution and liquidity.
Tickers: No specific public company tickers were pitched by the guest.
Transcript
The American economy and market have been going up longer than ever in American history. Much longer than in history. And in Washington, they say, "Don't worry, it's different now." Huh? It's different this time. But Julia, I know you've learned that when people say it's different this time, you should look out the window and ask questions. Legendary investor Jim Rogers, author of multiple books, including Adventure capitalist and investment in investment biker. It is so wonderful to welcome you back to the show and great to see you as always, Jim. I really appreciate you taking the time to join me today. >> Oh, Julia, it's my pleasure, my honor. I'm flattered. Nice to see you, >> Jim. It's been too long. It's been over a year since our last conversation. The last time you and I spoke would have been right after the presidential election in November of 2024. So, it's been well over a year at this point. A lot has happened in that time with uh Trump's f almost first year of complete as president in his second term. So Jim, since it's been a while, let's start where we always start, more of the big picture, macro view, where we are today as it relates to the economy and the markets. And Jim, you can take all the time you need to set the table when it comes to that big picture macro view today. >> Well, Julia, I make lots of mistakes, but I will give it a try. The US has been US economy and market has been going up for the longest in American history. Never in American history have things been so good for so long, which is wonderful. But it does say to me that maybe we should start asking questions and maybe even start worrying because never before have been things so good for so long. So I'm concerned. I have sold all my American shares and who knows. But I made many mistakes, Julia. This may be another one, >> Jim. We all make mistakes. Um, and we The most important thing is that we learn from our mistakes. But it's interesting. Okay. So, I take it, Jim, that that performance has surprised you then. Um, has it surprised you the performance that you've seen of the US in the markets, the economy remaining resilient? Well, Julia, I I repeat, the American economy and market have been going up longer than ever in the American history, much longer than in history. And in Washington, they say, "Don't worry, it's different now." H it's different this time. But Julia, I know you've learned that when people say it's different this time, you should look out the window and ask questions. Mhm. And for you, Jim, what would the questions be that you would be asking right now today? >> My my question is when should I start selling short? Because I know that always when things go on for a very long time and everybody becomes exuberant. It's setting us all up for a top. I'm not selling short yet, but I am trying to figure out if and when I should. >> Mhm. Okay. you when they end and things like this end, they've ended badly with lots of declines. Maybe it's different now. >> So, you're completely out of the US equity market at this point. Have you had other times in your career where you've been out completely or is this the first time when you're just completely out? >> I still own shares in Usbakistan and I still own shares in China. China's been going straight up recently, so I have to assess. But I'm still on Usbekistsan and I own them both, but I'm assessing China. >> Got it. Okay. I take it to Okay, let's just talk about the US a bit more. Do you think that the markets in the US equity market, do you think we're in a bubble? How do you assess it? Well, I mean, I've seen lots of bubbles in my I've been around long enough to see lots and I hope I hope I live long enough to see many more bubbles. Uh, this doesn't seem to me to be a bubble yet. It's beginning to have bubble characteristics, but you know, it's not a bubble yet, Julia, compared to some I've seen in the past. I mean, in the when bubbles, everybody's swallow screaming and crazy. Lots of PE. I don't think it's a bubble yet. >> Really? So, what what would make it a bubble or That's so interesting. So, it's not a bubble yet, but do you think the US market still has a ways to go then? >> Well, don't rely on me. I'm horrible at market timing. I'm probably the worst market timer in the world. I'm just suggesting to you that in previous bubbles you have, you know, people leaving their jobs to go to the investment world. Everybody's talking about it day in and day out. That's beginning to happen and may be happening. I'm just not there. So, I don't know everything. But in my assessment, it's not a bubble yet. A bubble in formation, but not a bubble yet. >> But don't rely on me. Oh, Jim. But okay. Well, you are a legendary investor and um people love to learn from you, too. But you're right. We should all do our own homework and do our own research, but um we still want to hear from you. So, don't discount that. Okay. I do want to revisit this because when we've spoken in recent years, you've made the case that we could see the worst crisis in our lifetime as it relates to the economy, the US economy. Do you still think that's the case? >> Well, Julie, it has to be. I mean, the debt is unbelievable. Nobody can count the debt in the US now. It's going higher every day. Exuberance is getting higher every day. I mean, no country in the history of the world has such it had just gigantic debt as we have in the US. I mean, history's pretty clear. When countries get in this situation, it leads to big problems. It always has anyway. >> Yeah, we're north. I'm looking at our debt clock today. Uh 38.6 trillion still ticking higher. How do you see from I know you've talked about this for a while. You've even written about it in your books. Um the situation that the US is in our debt that continues to soar higher. What is what do you think of the endg game is? How does this end? Because we've seen this throughout history and I know you are a student of financial history. How how do you think this ultimately ends? Well, the number you cited is the balance sheet debt, but there's a lot of offbalance sheet debt over a couple hundred trillion US dollars of offbalance sheet debt. So, the number is staggering. I don't know how it ends. I know how it always has ended in the past. The countries have huge economic problems. Often they impose exchange controls. often they limit movements of people including and movements of capital. It becomes very restrictive and depressive and oppressive. That's all it's always happened in the past. I hope it's different this time, but it never has been. >> Speaking of the central banks, I want to ask you about the news that we saw this week from the Federal Reserve. I don't know if you saw this, but I'm still going to ask you. Fed Chair J Pal on Sunday revealing that he received a grand jury subpoena from the Department of Justice. Did you see the headlines? What do you make of it? >> Well, I saw the headline. Yes. I mean, I have no idea since I didn't read the subpoena, but Julia, how can this possibly be good news? I mean the central bank is supposed to be always supposed to be totally independent and to to supposedly totally away from politics and away from politicians that seem something seems to be happening and I don't the way I read it it's not good for you me or the US >> you mentioned supposed to be independent Are central banks really independent or did they used to be and that changed? >> Well, we know they cannot be. I mean, after all, they all live in Washington. They all get their jobs from the same place. They all read the same newspapers. They all talk to the same people. So, of course, they're not totally independent, but in theory, they're supposed to be. And sometimes they have been more independent than other. There was a guy named William Machznney Martin once decades ago who was extremely independent, but that's not always the case. >> On the Federal Reserve, do you think they've made a mistake in their recent policy decisions with cutting rates? It's like where do you what do you make of I don't know how much you pay attention to the Fed here in the US but it certainly feels like people pay more attention to the central bank than I can recall. >> I have rarely been a fan of central banks. You remember that they are bureaucrats. They are political appointees. They're trying to keep their jobs. They care about you. We all care about you, Julia. But they care about their jobs more than they care about you or anybody else. Their most important thing is to keep their job. And they think to do that they have to keep interest rates low and keep pumping money into the economy. That's not my view, but that's why I'm not a central banker. >> Yeah. Um, you were talking earlier about how we could see the worst crisis in our lifetimes. Could the I mean, it's not like the Fed could really do anything to rectify it at this point, could they? Or even if it happened, they're probably out of tools. Or maybe they should stop intervening in the first place. But, um, or maybe they even got us into this mess. Well, Julia, I mean, the facts are pretty straightforward. The US debt is the highest in the history of the world. Goes up every day and the central bank continues to print huge amounts of money. I mean, these are simple facts. Historically, that has always led to problems eventually. Nothing goes up forever or nothing ever has gone up forever. US has been stock market has been going up for the longest in history. Mr. Trump will tell you it's okay. It's going to go on forever. I'm skeptical. This episode is brought to you by Van X rare earth and strategic metals ETF, ticker symbol REMX. Rareears are the hidden backbone of modern technology and defense, powering everything from smartphones and electric vehicles to fighter jets and wind turbines. Van Ec recognized this early, launching the rare earth and strategic metals ETF, ticker symbol REMX, 15 years ago, well before supply chain security became a global priority. Today, China dominates the production and refining capacity of rare earths, creating real challenges for global supply chain security as these materials are essential for technological innovation, clean energy, and national security. That's why countries all around the world are racing to build their own supply chains and reduce reliance on China. As this global shift continues, investment in the rare earth ecosystem is growing rapidly from mining to advanced manufacturing. Investors can gain access to this powerful trend through REMX. Visit vanck.com/remxjiulia to learn more. I want to ask you about an area that you're kind of known for and that's the precious metals. We saw gold had an incredible run last year um outperforming the markets. Also, silver continue to reach new highs. Um has that surprised you the performance? >> Well, I don't know if it surprised me. I own both. I have owned both for many years. I'm not selling either. If they go down, I hope I'm smart enough to buy more of both of them. Um, no, I do know. No, it doesn't surprise me because I do know that throughout the world, debt is skyrocketing and paper money is being printed everywhere. Throughout history, that led to people being worried. And when people are worried, they have often turned to gold and silver to precious metals to protect themselves. I'm an old peasant. You know, all of us old peasants know it's good to have some silver under the bed. It's good to have some gold in the closet. >> You know, if you're not an old peasant, I'll introduce you to some. I learned that from you because on you've said that everyone should own some gold and some silver. >> Which one's your preference? Silver or gold? >> Well, it depends on the price at the moment. I Well, I don't know at the moment. Both are making all I'm tell right now. >> You're not buying either right now. >> No. No. But if they go down, I hope I'm smart enough to buy one of them. Both of them if they go down enough. But you're I imagine you're very happy with that performance. Silver's at 8971 this morning. Um I don't even know where gold is, but Oh, 40 north of 4600. So imagine you've been pretty happy. >> I know your parents taught you to buy low and sell high. If they go down, I hope I'm smart enough to buy more. Well, I'll tell you, I bought my first gold in I think August of 2011 when they had there's probably that was a bad time to buy because it did go down, but I didn't sell it. So, now I'm happy with it. >> Hooray for you. What a smart woman. >> I don't know about that, but I'm happy now, Jim. >> I hope you have some silver also. >> I have a little bit of silver, but mostly gold. Um, okay. So, you said, well, I guess real quick on the gold and silver front, do you think that there's room to run further here? Like, what do you what do you make of the price movements that we've seen? >> Well, I I don't make anything of it except that's why I own them because I know that things are getting serious in the world. The debt skyrockets everywhere. Money printing continues everywhere. So, I mean, I'm not surprised. That's why I own gold and silver. And I know that politicians and human beings all over the world want easy answers. And the easy answer is to print money. Is it good? No. But that's the easy answer. So many places do it. >> All right. So, going back to investing, looking at the markets, you're out of the US markets. You mentioned that you're not shorting yet, but you and I, we've talked about short selling as being a bit of a lost art, but I take it it's still something you are interested in or want to do. What signs would you look for to short again? What would you be looking for where you'd say, "Hey, I would like to short the markets." Well, I mean, the classic signs of what I've said before is that there'll be a time when kids are leaving college to go into the stock market, when people are leaving their professions to become stock brokers because it's so interesting and it's so easy. When it's so easy, that's when you should really get very worried because it's never easy. But when everybody thinks it's easy, start worrying. when everywhere you go, people are talking about their investments, start listening and worrying. >> You don't think they're already doing that? >> Well, no. Yes, it's starting, but I and maybe I'm too it's too late, but I I don't see that it's total widespread hysteria yet. >> Um, in Street Smarts, you wrote that America would lose its financial wherewithal to address grievances. Are we there yet? >> Well, I mean, Julia, I just look at other countries. This has happened many times in the past few thousand years. And when it always happens, it becomes serious, unfortunate, in every place that it's happened. In 1925, Britain was the richest, most powerful country in the world. But 50 years later, they were bankrupt. They had exchange controls. It was a wretched place to be. It went from the single richest country in the world to a single depressive country in the world. It's happened to many other countries and I presume it will I hope I as I said I hope I live long enough to see many many more collapses. >> Where do you hide in that scenario? Like what is a safe haven for you then besides just you know the precious metals exposure? What do you do from an investor perspective? >> Oh, you're asking the brilliant question that people have been asking for hundreds of years. Uh, well, silver and gold have always been a place for hundreds of years. I mean, silver, remember Jesus Christ? Jesus Christ was sold for 30 pieces of silver because even then, silver was extreme then and there silver was extremely valuable, extremely important. This has been going on for a very, very long time. I say, I presume it will continue to go on longer. I don't see anything on the horizon that's going to replace silver and gold yet. If you know something, please don't announce it on the air. Send me a private email. I would love to hear it. Mhm. Um, so since you've sold your US stocks, um, but you still have your positions in silver, you have gold, you mentioned that you still have exposure to Chinese equities in places like Usbekiststan. Are you just holding what you have? Are you adding to what you have? How are you thinking about your portfolio? >> Well, I mean, the Chinese market's been going straight up in the last few days, so I'm not adding. I'm watching. I haven't sold anything yet. I'm not doing anything. I'm just sort of watching. It's a very small market. But if I see an opportunity, I hope I'm smart enough to do something. Or Julia, if you know another market, please send me an email. I'm looking. I'm always looking. >> What's going on in China? Like, how is China doing? Well, the Chinese stock market, which is probably your real question, is making all-time highs. It's going straight up. It did nothing for a long time, but now it's very, very popular, very exciting. Uh the economy is doing better. You know, it's the largest population, second largest population in the world now after India. But no, it's it's doing well. Of course, they'll have problems. America became the most successful country in the world. But we had huge problems in the 19th and 20th century. Everybody who rises has problems. >> Mhm. Okay. I did get a viewer question and they didn't say who to ask this to, but I I'm going to ask it of you. This viewer wanted to know about Venezuela um after uh the Trump administration removed Nicholas Maduro and what that might mean or what might be the implications for from an investor perspective on markets and the economy. Do you have a point of view on Venezuela? >> Well, it's a nice place. I hope you go there sometime if you haven't been. I'm not investing in Venezuela. I'm sitting here watching. I mean, I'm not happy the fact that the United States could just send a, you know, go around and kidnap the president of another country. That's sort of unusual and unique. So, it certainly doesn't make me happy that it's happening. Um, I hope we don't see much more of that in our lifetimes. But no, it's not good. I don't see how anybody can say, "But Mr. Trump says it's good. He says it's necessary, but I don't see how that is defensible in the international stage. I'm not suggesting he's a good person or that Venezuela is great. I'm just suggesting it's not normal for a major country to go and grab the president of another country and take him away. you said from an investor perspective, you're watching um I know again you are a worldly man. You've you hold multiple Guinness World Records for having traveled the world. I know that's also opened up your eyes as an investor. I remember in your travels you would go to certain countries and you'd see opportunities. Are you are you watching from an investor perspective? And if so, what what are you watching? Well, I'm I hope I'm watching everywhere even if it's distantly or vaguely the problem of the situation right now, Julia, is that around the world, most markets are making new highs. Nearly everybody in the world is extremely happy right now and everybody has going been going up. Now, I'm old, but I haven't been around forever. But I do know that when that has happened in the past, it's a time to ask questions because if everybody's happy, well, you should at least ask questions. And that's happening right now. Nearly every stock market in the world is making you eyes. >> Hey there, I just want to take a quick moment to thank you for watching this video. And I would really love for you to subscribe to this channel if you like this content. Over 70% of our viewers are not yet subscribed and we are on a mission to hit 100,000 subscribers. So, if you could just take a quick moment, hit subscribe. Thank you so much for your support. We appreciate you. And back to the video. Um, I've really enjoyed reading your books over the years. Um, I've enjoyed Street Smarts. I've enjoyed investment biker a venture capitalist a gift for my children. you as an investor um I guess there's different ways to invest and you have different strengths and you've been a bit of a soothsaver say soothsayer over the years calling um you know 1987 the housing crash I know crash I know you shorted Fanny May um you're known as someone who like invests in secular trends and you don't often change positions you had this knack for spotting interesting opportunities what would would you say has been your greatest strength as an investor? And what would you say has been maybe your greatest weakness as an investor? >> Well, Julie, I certainly make lots of mistakes. I mean, I have been doing this a lot. You want to hear about my first wife? Oh my gosh, what a mistake, >> Jim. >> What a mistake that was. So, I have made many mistakes in my life. I hope that I have learned enough. I do know that when everybody's exuberant, I should at least step back and ask questions. That when everybody's depressed, I should step back and ask questions. Those are lessons I have learned about markets. I mean, we're all human beings. We have been for hundreds of years. We all have various insundry emotions. We get carried away and depressed often at the same time. And I try to be alert. I try to pay attention to them. But don't think I don't make mistakes. Oh my gosh, I'm good at it. >> What was your biggest >> making mistakes? I mean, >> what was the biggest mistake you could you made? >> Well, probably my first wife. >> No, Jim. I mean, as an investor. >> Oh, well, I made plenty. I remember once early in my days, I had a huge success. I was making stunning amounts of money when everybody around me was collapsing. And I got all excited and I decided to wait a little while and I waited. The market went up as I knew it would and I started selling short and within a few days I was wiped out. But I didn't know enough about markets in those days. I didn't know in markets to do strange things and that people could be very irrational. I mean I had to learn I now know and knew then learned then that I had to learn more about markets. Being right on the fundamentals was not enough. You had to know about markets and human beings as well. That's the hard part. At least for me that was the hard part. >> The human psychology of it all. Jim, >> I can listen to your show to find out what's going on, but then I factor in people. >> Well, Jim, this audience loves listening to you. They love learning from you. I appreciate you taking the time as always. Um, I got up for this. It's 3 It's 3:30 in the morning here. We started at 3:00 a.m., but I was just so excited to talk to you. I always love having you on this channel. You're welcome anytime. Before I let you go, let's leave some parting thoughts for this audience. Anything that you'd like them to think about? Anything that's been on your mind lately? Could be something we have not covered in this conversation. The floor the floor is all yours. >> Well, Julia, I wish I were there so we could go to the disco. I guess it's still open where you are. >> Not in Raleigh. I'm in North Carolina. There's >> no disco. You should move. >> No disco. I have, let me tell you, Jim, I have not been to I have not been to a club probably since my early 20s. So, I'm late 30s now. >> Oh my gosh, you still look like Oh, never mind. Uh, >> uh, if I if I ever we're ever in the same place, I'll try to take you to a disco. But in the meantime, my only advice to everybody is please be careful because these are perilous times for many reasons, especially the US. I'm a US citizen and a voter and everything else, but the US is now staggering debts. You know, it's a good time to be an old American because young Americans are going to have lots of problems in our lifetime. In 1925, Britain was the richest, most powerful country in the world. 50 years later, it was bankrupt. You remember Margaret Thatcher? Margaret Thatcher got elected because Britain went bankrupt. It was a disaster. Fortunately, she got elected when the North Sea oil started flowing. So, the North Sea bailed out Britain. I mean, she took credit for it. She definitely took credit for it. But without the North Sea oil, even Margaret Thatcher would have had huge problems. We don't I don't think we in the US have a North Sea, at least not one that I know of. So, I'm concerned. >> Especially if you're a young person, it's it's good to be an older person right now. >> I repeat, it's a good time to be an old American. >> H >> my children who are both Americans are going to have problems in their times. >> Yeah, that's a good point, Jim. Well, Jim Rogers, legendary investor, I really really appreciate you taking the time. This entire audience appreciates it. I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day and I look forward to our next conversation. Until then, Jim, be well. Thank you so much. Julia, I'm extremely delighted, flattered. I always have a good time and learn from you. Happy New Year. Happy new
Jim Rogers: Out Of US Stocks, Not A Bubble Yet & Holding Not Buying Gold
Summary
Transcript
The American economy and market have been going up longer than ever in American history. Much longer than in history. And in Washington, they say, "Don't worry, it's different now." Huh? It's different this time. But Julia, I know you've learned that when people say it's different this time, you should look out the window and ask questions. Legendary investor Jim Rogers, author of multiple books, including Adventure capitalist and investment in investment biker. It is so wonderful to welcome you back to the show and great to see you as always, Jim. I really appreciate you taking the time to join me today. >> Oh, Julia, it's my pleasure, my honor. I'm flattered. Nice to see you, >> Jim. It's been too long. It's been over a year since our last conversation. The last time you and I spoke would have been right after the presidential election in November of 2024. So, it's been well over a year at this point. A lot has happened in that time with uh Trump's f almost first year of complete as president in his second term. So Jim, since it's been a while, let's start where we always start, more of the big picture, macro view, where we are today as it relates to the economy and the markets. And Jim, you can take all the time you need to set the table when it comes to that big picture macro view today. >> Well, Julia, I make lots of mistakes, but I will give it a try. The US has been US economy and market has been going up for the longest in American history. Never in American history have things been so good for so long, which is wonderful. But it does say to me that maybe we should start asking questions and maybe even start worrying because never before have been things so good for so long. So I'm concerned. I have sold all my American shares and who knows. But I made many mistakes, Julia. This may be another one, >> Jim. We all make mistakes. Um, and we The most important thing is that we learn from our mistakes. But it's interesting. Okay. So, I take it, Jim, that that performance has surprised you then. Um, has it surprised you the performance that you've seen of the US in the markets, the economy remaining resilient? Well, Julia, I I repeat, the American economy and market have been going up longer than ever in the American history, much longer than in history. And in Washington, they say, "Don't worry, it's different now." H it's different this time. But Julia, I know you've learned that when people say it's different this time, you should look out the window and ask questions. Mhm. And for you, Jim, what would the questions be that you would be asking right now today? >> My my question is when should I start selling short? Because I know that always when things go on for a very long time and everybody becomes exuberant. It's setting us all up for a top. I'm not selling short yet, but I am trying to figure out if and when I should. >> Mhm. Okay. you when they end and things like this end, they've ended badly with lots of declines. Maybe it's different now. >> So, you're completely out of the US equity market at this point. Have you had other times in your career where you've been out completely or is this the first time when you're just completely out? >> I still own shares in Usbakistan and I still own shares in China. China's been going straight up recently, so I have to assess. But I'm still on Usbekistsan and I own them both, but I'm assessing China. >> Got it. Okay. I take it to Okay, let's just talk about the US a bit more. Do you think that the markets in the US equity market, do you think we're in a bubble? How do you assess it? Well, I mean, I've seen lots of bubbles in my I've been around long enough to see lots and I hope I hope I live long enough to see many more bubbles. Uh, this doesn't seem to me to be a bubble yet. It's beginning to have bubble characteristics, but you know, it's not a bubble yet, Julia, compared to some I've seen in the past. I mean, in the when bubbles, everybody's swallow screaming and crazy. Lots of PE. I don't think it's a bubble yet. >> Really? So, what what would make it a bubble or That's so interesting. So, it's not a bubble yet, but do you think the US market still has a ways to go then? >> Well, don't rely on me. I'm horrible at market timing. I'm probably the worst market timer in the world. I'm just suggesting to you that in previous bubbles you have, you know, people leaving their jobs to go to the investment world. Everybody's talking about it day in and day out. That's beginning to happen and may be happening. I'm just not there. So, I don't know everything. But in my assessment, it's not a bubble yet. A bubble in formation, but not a bubble yet. >> But don't rely on me. Oh, Jim. But okay. Well, you are a legendary investor and um people love to learn from you, too. But you're right. We should all do our own homework and do our own research, but um we still want to hear from you. So, don't discount that. Okay. I do want to revisit this because when we've spoken in recent years, you've made the case that we could see the worst crisis in our lifetime as it relates to the economy, the US economy. Do you still think that's the case? >> Well, Julie, it has to be. I mean, the debt is unbelievable. Nobody can count the debt in the US now. It's going higher every day. Exuberance is getting higher every day. I mean, no country in the history of the world has such it had just gigantic debt as we have in the US. I mean, history's pretty clear. When countries get in this situation, it leads to big problems. It always has anyway. >> Yeah, we're north. I'm looking at our debt clock today. Uh 38.6 trillion still ticking higher. How do you see from I know you've talked about this for a while. You've even written about it in your books. Um the situation that the US is in our debt that continues to soar higher. What is what do you think of the endg game is? How does this end? Because we've seen this throughout history and I know you are a student of financial history. How how do you think this ultimately ends? Well, the number you cited is the balance sheet debt, but there's a lot of offbalance sheet debt over a couple hundred trillion US dollars of offbalance sheet debt. So, the number is staggering. I don't know how it ends. I know how it always has ended in the past. The countries have huge economic problems. Often they impose exchange controls. often they limit movements of people including and movements of capital. It becomes very restrictive and depressive and oppressive. That's all it's always happened in the past. I hope it's different this time, but it never has been. >> Speaking of the central banks, I want to ask you about the news that we saw this week from the Federal Reserve. I don't know if you saw this, but I'm still going to ask you. Fed Chair J Pal on Sunday revealing that he received a grand jury subpoena from the Department of Justice. Did you see the headlines? What do you make of it? >> Well, I saw the headline. Yes. I mean, I have no idea since I didn't read the subpoena, but Julia, how can this possibly be good news? I mean the central bank is supposed to be always supposed to be totally independent and to to supposedly totally away from politics and away from politicians that seem something seems to be happening and I don't the way I read it it's not good for you me or the US >> you mentioned supposed to be independent Are central banks really independent or did they used to be and that changed? >> Well, we know they cannot be. I mean, after all, they all live in Washington. They all get their jobs from the same place. They all read the same newspapers. They all talk to the same people. So, of course, they're not totally independent, but in theory, they're supposed to be. And sometimes they have been more independent than other. There was a guy named William Machznney Martin once decades ago who was extremely independent, but that's not always the case. >> On the Federal Reserve, do you think they've made a mistake in their recent policy decisions with cutting rates? It's like where do you what do you make of I don't know how much you pay attention to the Fed here in the US but it certainly feels like people pay more attention to the central bank than I can recall. >> I have rarely been a fan of central banks. You remember that they are bureaucrats. They are political appointees. They're trying to keep their jobs. They care about you. We all care about you, Julia. But they care about their jobs more than they care about you or anybody else. Their most important thing is to keep their job. And they think to do that they have to keep interest rates low and keep pumping money into the economy. That's not my view, but that's why I'm not a central banker. >> Yeah. Um, you were talking earlier about how we could see the worst crisis in our lifetimes. Could the I mean, it's not like the Fed could really do anything to rectify it at this point, could they? Or even if it happened, they're probably out of tools. Or maybe they should stop intervening in the first place. But, um, or maybe they even got us into this mess. Well, Julia, I mean, the facts are pretty straightforward. The US debt is the highest in the history of the world. Goes up every day and the central bank continues to print huge amounts of money. I mean, these are simple facts. Historically, that has always led to problems eventually. Nothing goes up forever or nothing ever has gone up forever. US has been stock market has been going up for the longest in history. 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Investors can gain access to this powerful trend through REMX. Visit vanck.com/remxjiulia to learn more. I want to ask you about an area that you're kind of known for and that's the precious metals. We saw gold had an incredible run last year um outperforming the markets. Also, silver continue to reach new highs. Um has that surprised you the performance? >> Well, I don't know if it surprised me. I own both. I have owned both for many years. I'm not selling either. If they go down, I hope I'm smart enough to buy more of both of them. Um, no, I do know. No, it doesn't surprise me because I do know that throughout the world, debt is skyrocketing and paper money is being printed everywhere. Throughout history, that led to people being worried. And when people are worried, they have often turned to gold and silver to precious metals to protect themselves. I'm an old peasant. You know, all of us old peasants know it's good to have some silver under the bed. It's good to have some gold in the closet. >> You know, if you're not an old peasant, I'll introduce you to some. I learned that from you because on you've said that everyone should own some gold and some silver. >> Which one's your preference? Silver or gold? >> Well, it depends on the price at the moment. I Well, I don't know at the moment. Both are making all I'm tell right now. >> You're not buying either right now. >> No. No. But if they go down, I hope I'm smart enough to buy one of them. Both of them if they go down enough. But you're I imagine you're very happy with that performance. Silver's at 8971 this morning. Um I don't even know where gold is, but Oh, 40 north of 4600. So imagine you've been pretty happy. >> I know your parents taught you to buy low and sell high. If they go down, I hope I'm smart enough to buy more. Well, I'll tell you, I bought my first gold in I think August of 2011 when they had there's probably that was a bad time to buy because it did go down, but I didn't sell it. So, now I'm happy with it. >> Hooray for you. What a smart woman. >> I don't know about that, but I'm happy now, Jim. >> I hope you have some silver also. >> I have a little bit of silver, but mostly gold. Um, okay. So, you said, well, I guess real quick on the gold and silver front, do you think that there's room to run further here? Like, what do you what do you make of the price movements that we've seen? >> Well, I I don't make anything of it except that's why I own them because I know that things are getting serious in the world. The debt skyrockets everywhere. Money printing continues everywhere. So, I mean, I'm not surprised. That's why I own gold and silver. And I know that politicians and human beings all over the world want easy answers. And the easy answer is to print money. Is it good? No. But that's the easy answer. So many places do it. >> All right. So, going back to investing, looking at the markets, you're out of the US markets. You mentioned that you're not shorting yet, but you and I, we've talked about short selling as being a bit of a lost art, but I take it it's still something you are interested in or want to do. What signs would you look for to short again? What would you be looking for where you'd say, "Hey, I would like to short the markets." Well, I mean, the classic signs of what I've said before is that there'll be a time when kids are leaving college to go into the stock market, when people are leaving their professions to become stock brokers because it's so interesting and it's so easy. When it's so easy, that's when you should really get very worried because it's never easy. But when everybody thinks it's easy, start worrying. when everywhere you go, people are talking about their investments, start listening and worrying. >> You don't think they're already doing that? >> Well, no. Yes, it's starting, but I and maybe I'm too it's too late, but I I don't see that it's total widespread hysteria yet. >> Um, in Street Smarts, you wrote that America would lose its financial wherewithal to address grievances. Are we there yet? >> Well, I mean, Julia, I just look at other countries. This has happened many times in the past few thousand years. And when it always happens, it becomes serious, unfortunate, in every place that it's happened. In 1925, Britain was the richest, most powerful country in the world. But 50 years later, they were bankrupt. They had exchange controls. It was a wretched place to be. It went from the single richest country in the world to a single depressive country in the world. It's happened to many other countries and I presume it will I hope I as I said I hope I live long enough to see many many more collapses. >> Where do you hide in that scenario? Like what is a safe haven for you then besides just you know the precious metals exposure? What do you do from an investor perspective? >> Oh, you're asking the brilliant question that people have been asking for hundreds of years. Uh, well, silver and gold have always been a place for hundreds of years. I mean, silver, remember Jesus Christ? Jesus Christ was sold for 30 pieces of silver because even then, silver was extreme then and there silver was extremely valuable, extremely important. This has been going on for a very, very long time. I say, I presume it will continue to go on longer. I don't see anything on the horizon that's going to replace silver and gold yet. If you know something, please don't announce it on the air. Send me a private email. I would love to hear it. Mhm. Um, so since you've sold your US stocks, um, but you still have your positions in silver, you have gold, you mentioned that you still have exposure to Chinese equities in places like Usbekiststan. Are you just holding what you have? Are you adding to what you have? How are you thinking about your portfolio? >> Well, I mean, the Chinese market's been going straight up in the last few days, so I'm not adding. I'm watching. I haven't sold anything yet. I'm not doing anything. I'm just sort of watching. It's a very small market. But if I see an opportunity, I hope I'm smart enough to do something. Or Julia, if you know another market, please send me an email. I'm looking. I'm always looking. >> What's going on in China? Like, how is China doing? Well, the Chinese stock market, which is probably your real question, is making all-time highs. It's going straight up. It did nothing for a long time, but now it's very, very popular, very exciting. Uh the economy is doing better. You know, it's the largest population, second largest population in the world now after India. But no, it's it's doing well. Of course, they'll have problems. America became the most successful country in the world. But we had huge problems in the 19th and 20th century. Everybody who rises has problems. >> Mhm. Okay. I did get a viewer question and they didn't say who to ask this to, but I I'm going to ask it of you. This viewer wanted to know about Venezuela um after uh the Trump administration removed Nicholas Maduro and what that might mean or what might be the implications for from an investor perspective on markets and the economy. Do you have a point of view on Venezuela? >> Well, it's a nice place. I hope you go there sometime if you haven't been. I'm not investing in Venezuela. I'm sitting here watching. I mean, I'm not happy the fact that the United States could just send a, you know, go around and kidnap the president of another country. That's sort of unusual and unique. So, it certainly doesn't make me happy that it's happening. Um, I hope we don't see much more of that in our lifetimes. But no, it's not good. I don't see how anybody can say, "But Mr. Trump says it's good. He says it's necessary, but I don't see how that is defensible in the international stage. I'm not suggesting he's a good person or that Venezuela is great. I'm just suggesting it's not normal for a major country to go and grab the president of another country and take him away. you said from an investor perspective, you're watching um I know again you are a worldly man. You've you hold multiple Guinness World Records for having traveled the world. I know that's also opened up your eyes as an investor. I remember in your travels you would go to certain countries and you'd see opportunities. Are you are you watching from an investor perspective? And if so, what what are you watching? Well, I'm I hope I'm watching everywhere even if it's distantly or vaguely the problem of the situation right now, Julia, is that around the world, most markets are making new highs. Nearly everybody in the world is extremely happy right now and everybody has going been going up. Now, I'm old, but I haven't been around forever. But I do know that when that has happened in the past, it's a time to ask questions because if everybody's happy, well, you should at least ask questions. And that's happening right now. Nearly every stock market in the world is making you eyes. >> Hey there, I just want to take a quick moment to thank you for watching this video. And I would really love for you to subscribe to this channel if you like this content. Over 70% of our viewers are not yet subscribed and we are on a mission to hit 100,000 subscribers. So, if you could just take a quick moment, hit subscribe. Thank you so much for your support. We appreciate you. And back to the video. Um, I've really enjoyed reading your books over the years. Um, I've enjoyed Street Smarts. I've enjoyed investment biker a venture capitalist a gift for my children. you as an investor um I guess there's different ways to invest and you have different strengths and you've been a bit of a soothsaver say soothsayer over the years calling um you know 1987 the housing crash I know crash I know you shorted Fanny May um you're known as someone who like invests in secular trends and you don't often change positions you had this knack for spotting interesting opportunities what would would you say has been your greatest strength as an investor? And what would you say has been maybe your greatest weakness as an investor? >> Well, Julie, I certainly make lots of mistakes. I mean, I have been doing this a lot. You want to hear about my first wife? Oh my gosh, what a mistake, >> Jim. >> What a mistake that was. So, I have made many mistakes in my life. I hope that I have learned enough. I do know that when everybody's exuberant, I should at least step back and ask questions. That when everybody's depressed, I should step back and ask questions. Those are lessons I have learned about markets. I mean, we're all human beings. We have been for hundreds of years. We all have various insundry emotions. We get carried away and depressed often at the same time. And I try to be alert. I try to pay attention to them. But don't think I don't make mistakes. Oh my gosh, I'm good at it. >> What was your biggest >> making mistakes? I mean, >> what was the biggest mistake you could you made? >> Well, probably my first wife. >> No, Jim. I mean, as an investor. >> Oh, well, I made plenty. I remember once early in my days, I had a huge success. I was making stunning amounts of money when everybody around me was collapsing. And I got all excited and I decided to wait a little while and I waited. The market went up as I knew it would and I started selling short and within a few days I was wiped out. But I didn't know enough about markets in those days. I didn't know in markets to do strange things and that people could be very irrational. I mean I had to learn I now know and knew then learned then that I had to learn more about markets. Being right on the fundamentals was not enough. You had to know about markets and human beings as well. That's the hard part. At least for me that was the hard part. >> The human psychology of it all. Jim, >> I can listen to your show to find out what's going on, but then I factor in people. >> Well, Jim, this audience loves listening to you. They love learning from you. I appreciate you taking the time as always. Um, I got up for this. It's 3 It's 3:30 in the morning here. We started at 3:00 a.m., but I was just so excited to talk to you. I always love having you on this channel. You're welcome anytime. Before I let you go, let's leave some parting thoughts for this audience. Anything that you'd like them to think about? Anything that's been on your mind lately? Could be something we have not covered in this conversation. The floor the floor is all yours. >> Well, Julia, I wish I were there so we could go to the disco. I guess it's still open where you are. >> Not in Raleigh. I'm in North Carolina. There's >> no disco. You should move. >> No disco. I have, let me tell you, Jim, I have not been to I have not been to a club probably since my early 20s. So, I'm late 30s now. >> Oh my gosh, you still look like Oh, never mind. Uh, >> uh, if I if I ever we're ever in the same place, I'll try to take you to a disco. But in the meantime, my only advice to everybody is please be careful because these are perilous times for many reasons, especially the US. I'm a US citizen and a voter and everything else, but the US is now staggering debts. You know, it's a good time to be an old American because young Americans are going to have lots of problems in our lifetime. In 1925, Britain was the richest, most powerful country in the world. 50 years later, it was bankrupt. You remember Margaret Thatcher? Margaret Thatcher got elected because Britain went bankrupt. It was a disaster. Fortunately, she got elected when the North Sea oil started flowing. So, the North Sea bailed out Britain. I mean, she took credit for it. She definitely took credit for it. But without the North Sea oil, even Margaret Thatcher would have had huge problems. We don't I don't think we in the US have a North Sea, at least not one that I know of. So, I'm concerned. >> Especially if you're a young person, it's it's good to be an older person right now. >> I repeat, it's a good time to be an old American. >> H >> my children who are both Americans are going to have problems in their times. >> Yeah, that's a good point, Jim. Well, Jim Rogers, legendary investor, I really really appreciate you taking the time. This entire audience appreciates it. I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day and I look forward to our next conversation. Until then, Jim, be well. Thank you so much. Julia, I'm extremely delighted, flattered. I always have a good time and learn from you. Happy New Year. Happy new