Matt Spielman – Igniting Careers and Energizing Lives – (EP.463)
Summary
Executive Coaching System: Matt Spielman emphasizes the importance of a structured system in executive coaching, which helps individuals and teams focus on outcomes and achievements.
Leadership Challenges: A recurring theme is the loneliness at the top for leaders, who often cannot share their burdens with others, highlighting the need for a support system.
Importance of 'Why': Successful leaders are clear about their motivations beyond financial metrics, which helps them navigate challenges and inspire their teams.
Hiring and Onboarding: Spielman identifies gaps in the hiring process, particularly the lack of structured onboarding for new executives, which is crucial for their success.
Feedback Techniques: Effective feedback involves specific, non-confrontational methods like the SBI (Situation, Behavior, Impact) model, which avoids triggering defensiveness.
Investment Organization Dynamics: The podcast discusses the dominance of 'thinkers' in investment firms, which can lead to colder environments and highlights the need for empathy and appreciation.
Coaching Evolution: Spielman notes the transition from short-term engagements to long-term advisory roles, emphasizing the value of trust and institutional knowledge.
Future Vision: The integration of AI into coaching practices is seen as a future development to enhance client outcomes and streamline processes.
Transcript
It's important for them to understand, you know, how they and their organization got there, which is they got there not because they were great leaders, but because they were really good at doing the job, doing the work, doing the analysis, doing the presentation, [Music] >> Matt, great to see you. It's great to be here, Ten. So, you've been at this for 10 years now. What have you found works? So what I find that works that people really grab on to is a system and structure. I think executive coaching or professional development I think by nature can be a little bit squishy. And what I really tried to do is provide a system that people can grab on to and say we're in this part of the system now. Now we're in this one and now we're in this one. So I I think they like the the structure. Now the structure combined with this I mean I dare say this maniacal focus on outcomes and achievement and results I think also sort of rings true for a lot of the folks who kind of grab on to it. They get a lot out of it I think a lot more than they thought they were going to get. When you put the system in place, what types of outcomes is the system driving towards? >> Determined by the individual andor the team. We often engage executive teams or even offices, but it's determined by them. It's certainly not something that I come in or my team comes in and said, "This would be a really meaningful outcome for you." We can give background or context of what Yeah. I mean, we've had thousands of coaching sessions, hundreds and hundreds of game plans. These are some of the things that people aim for, but it's really driven by them. The outcomes can be somebody wants to advance to the next level, somebody wants to raise a certain size fund, somebody wants to launch a new type of initiative, somebody wants to open up an office, somebody wants to acquire a sports team. They can be really lofty goals. And we complement that with also things that are going on in their life. So it could be in their family, could be at home or out of the office. I that's a really important focus of ours recognizing that you know people just they're not robots. We can't just sort of show up and compartmentalize all the other facets or pieces of our life. We do have them set goals for nonwork related outcomes. So once you set that process in place, having worked with lots of leaders at this point and particularly in asset management, what have you found are some of the characteristics of like who these really great leaders are and what they go through? probably was the 4,000 session coaching session mark where I began to I sat back began to reflect and some themes emerged of some of these leaders, these managing partners, these CEOs, these managing directors etc. And the one that sort of kind of ironically that sits at the top is that it's really lonely at the top. Really lonely at the top. So often times an individual or a partnership team, they have things in their head that they're thinking about that they can't share with anybody else and they've exhausted all the air time they have with their significant other at home. And that person's thinking, I don't really have somebody else to talk to about this. And these are fairly meaty, meaningful things. And they often walk around and and there's an element of a pangs of of of loneliness. one of our clients and our phase one of the game plan system. So, kind of the diagnostic stage. I walk into his office and he said, "Matt, I I know you have this GPS thing. I know you have this system. I just want to talk to you for the next 30 minutes. I've been carrying around a bunch of stuff. I can't share it with people here at work. I can't share it at home. I just need to talk to somebody about this." And that's where the light bulb went off and I said, I began to look at some of my other folks and other partners and this is a real common theme. What's an example that you could share of something that someone at the top is coming to you and they just can't talk to anybody else about? We have a major departure um that we're working through where we don't have the details finalized. So, there's nothing to announce yet, but this is weighing on my mind. This could really impact some of our efforts that we're working through right now. And I need to talk to somebody about this to begin to strategize like what when what do we say? what they can't share with anybody else. >> What have you found of those same people, so they they have those types of challenges that the best ones do really well. They're really clear on their why. One of the things we do early on in the engagement in the relationship is I really want to get at what is it that drives them. It's generally beyond the fund size. It's generally beyond the returns. It's generally beyond all the stuff that people other people see. There's generally something that really goes back to well I came over from another country and I came here with nothing and I want to prove to other myself and other people. We don't quite go through the Toyota 5 wise for for those who studied the Toyota 5 in that case because that could be a little bit annoying but we do get down to at least two or three potentially four. And if you understand what it is that drives you, some of the things that could really weigh us down actually we have the power to work through them. It was my observation but this was echoed well before me by Nietze by Frankle by Simon Synynic where they say essentially the people who have their why can work through almost any how and then I added can accomplish almost any what. So we really want to understand the why and these people are what I have found the commonality is when I begin to get at what is it that really drives you what hugely value they have an answer on the tip of their tongue that was an interesting observation for me cuz not everybody does which also means they're more resilient and they can bounce back from some of the the things that they face every single day when that why is apparent to the individual who's leading. How does that then translate to building an organization or working with an organization to achieve some common goal that may be specific to that individual because that is specific to that particular person doesn't mean that's what drives other people as well. What really needs to happen from there is really great leaders set the course and they set if if that what I I believe that and I I believe that to be the core purpose and Jim Collins who wrote good to great and built to last wrote this really great HBR piece called about defining your company's vision and he talks about what do you get up out of bed to go do every single day and that's your core purpose and that could be the company's core purpose as well so that works individual company but that needs to translate into some kind of vision. So what is it that we want to do? We want to maybe raise a certain fund size by a certain time frame. It translates into something that we're going to bring about and then the real so that's setting the course and leaders need to set the course. Leaders need to tell the folks on their team and across the organization here's where we're going. Yes, they can get input you know from their their leadership team and they can there little listening corners but they need to set the course. And then exceptional leaders in their conversations, interactions with people can kind of get at what is it about that outcome that drives them? What what drives them every morning when they get out of bed? Because the people on their team who are running deals, they're going to experience hiccups along the way. and if it it's going to be a different why for that individual and for all individuals than it is for for him or her who's leading the organization. Feels like that can get complicated. The more people you have in the organization, the more you got to there's an element that feels like a therapist trying to figure out like what is it exactly that each person wants? When you've seen people figure that out, well, how do they make it work? What we have found is yeah, an organization can have a game plan. Here's the vision statement. Here's what it is we're working towards. Here we're setting the course. Here's our organization's core purpose using um Collins as parts. And this is kind of why we're doing what we're doing. And now it's up to all of you to identify, okay, what do you need to contribute to that in order to bring those outcomes about and be really clear on your why and the meaning and the consequence or what we also call the so what. If the goal is the what, then what's the so why is that important? Everybody has their own individual game plan. So what may seem maybe a little bit complicated is actually quite organized um when it's put into action. So asset management in particular is sort of notoriously about managing money and maybe not as effective about managing people. I'd love to hear when you first are talking to someone, so you're not embedded in their organization. You haven't worked through a lot of the processes. What do you see in in the holes of people understanding how to lead others that are in these seats that are running these organizations? Well, first it's important for them to understand, you know, how they and their organization got there, which is they got there not because they were great leaders, but because they were really good at doing the job, doing the work, doing the analysis, doing the presentation, asking the right questions at the management presentation, etc., not because they were really deathly able to lead a deal team. So, that's where we start that I understand why you're not necessarily a good leader. And then there's generally a nodding and laughing and a smiling and a smirking of understanding, yeah, you know, that that's not what we're really known for. So, we established that kind of right at the outset. And then we go through, you know, these people because they've also invited us in, they're committed to continuous improvement. An interesting an interesting observation Ted also when I was I was reflecting is those people who were the most busy and had the busiest schedule and they were traveling all over they were the ones who were voracious to read the books or the articles and to have the conversations and they kept all the coaching sessions. It was sort of sort of inversely correlated. They were committed to kind of learning, developing and growing because they also recognize what's going to separate their organization from another organization is what people call the soft stuff. But sometimes the soft stuff can be the hard stuff and that's the human stuff. It's the human stuff. Do you have the right position, the right role with the right training at the right compensation with the right are they getting the right feedback etc. So we go through a leadership framework that has been built over the last 10 years and then built on the shoulders of all the books and articles and then you know my 20 years of of being a leader and we go through and we activate each one of those leadership principles. some of the key roles you hear about in that activation kind of starts with that hiring process. What have you found or some of the ways that you help these organizations with their hiring practices? What I have found is the hiring process seems to work pretty well. There are a lot of terrific executive search firms that are out there and there's tremendous amount of time, energy, and financial resources spent on on that hire. Where companies drop the ball is they could do a much better job of assessment of during the interview process going into data and looking back on past successes of let's say hiring a CEO for a portfolio company what has worked and layering on those successes for into the hiring process. I've noted that not all of the firms are actually doing that. And there are several executive coaching firms who offer assessment work. So that is something that I've known that that I see where where where they they could improve. Here's where they really drop the ball. You hire, you spend months, time, money, and you extend an offer, negotiate, lawyers are involved, etc. Okay. start date. The first 90 days, 100 days are the most important and acutely vulnerable time in executives's tenure. And they often the companies view it as it's a done deal. Okay, we hired, they're going to start, and let's get them their passwords, their computer, and all that. And there's the bathroom, and you're off and running. You actually got them to the 20 yard line. Now, you're in the red zone. Now there has to be a fully built out structured 90 first 90 or 100 day process that they have to activate in order to give that person the chance that he or she is going to succeed. >> What are some of the most important aspects of that 90 days? >> There's an inherent tension between they've hired me to take on a leadership role. So there are massive expectations of me and in in our world that that we work in, you know, time is on a very short time horizon. And at the same time I need to learn. There's a lot that I don't know. There may be known knowns but there may be known no unknowns I need to learn. So listening to her making sure we sit down talk to everybody and part of that. So to gather vital information but also ensure that the body accepts the organ that's that that initial process can be very scripted and structured and it should be there should be very there should be intentionality with the questions that are asked who you see who you see when do you see them in person do you see them over the phone all of that that initial sort of building bridges gathering information being accepted by the organization is often overlooked and is or is given short shrift >> in the assessment part of before the onboarding piece. What types of tools go into trying to understand if you have the right person for the right role? There are several assessments that are administered and different organizations have their either proprietary tools or they use other assessments. So there are literally dozens of them and it's usually some deeply involved 6 to 7hour interview asking all sorts of questions and then layering it over a database of other bits of information from other interviews from other executives who have performed really well in roles like that to try to give us the greatest chance that we're going to hire the right person because as leaders we are casting directors. We are casting directors. to put the right person in the right role. >> When you've done an assessment, what are some of the ways that the personality types impact what happens in an investment organization? >> Some of your your audience may have taken the MyersBriggs the MyersBriggs type indicator launched in ' 62. A really wonderful assessment, but the footnote to this assessment or any other assessment, it's just how it's used. And I have somebody who's on my team, has her PhD, administers the Hogan and several others. And her favorite way to administer one assessment is to go to the MoMA. She's really into art. And she sits down with her partners and she asks them questions. Hey, what do you see here? How does that impact? What is, you know, and she ties what the person is looking at to get at what that person values, what that person sees. One I particularly like is MyersBriggs. And in this amazing profession uh or of financial services and asset management I have noticed there are a couple of things that jump out. One is if there's a certain dichotomy called thinking or feeling. So thinkers have a preference for looking at a situ. It's how they prefer to make a decision. And they look at a situation they step back. They analyze the situation and they render an objective. Okay. Hey, this is what we should do. The feelers look at a situation and they their preference is to jump into the situation almost like walk in the shoes of the person, place, thing or whatever is happening there. Just the general population is 40% thinkers T and 60% feelers or F. In my hundreds, it's I I I was just checking the end, you know, a couple days ago, 460 profiles and it was 80% thinkers and 20% feelers. Now, if we actually just only looked at investment professionals and not professional services like IR, it's probably more like 88 or 90% thinkers. So, what does that mean? Like that if that's the what, Matt, so what's the so what? That means that these organizations could be colder, a little bit tougher. They may not be thinking about what some of the employees are thinking about like, hey, I just went to a meeting. Somebody on my deal team is probably hungry for that information and are probably would really help them. Their their instinct is not necessarily to how are others thinking about this? How are others feeling? what energy can I expend in order to bring them into this? So, we often talk about we often talk about that. That sounds like a lack of empathy that the feeling sounds like you're walking in someone else's shoes. What does that do to an investment organization that is so dominated by the thinkers? It's not necessarily a lack of empathy. These are preferences just like you have a preference to write with your left hand versus you can write with your your your less dominant hand and you could even develop it over time. It doesn't mean it's a fat comply and that I'm not going to be really empathic. This is merely an energy expenditure. If you expend the energy, you could be wildly empathic and walk in somebody else's shoes. But when times are stressed, I likely don't expend that energy and I go into what something that's that's more natural or more normal. What I have found is the in these tougher environments where the tea is really playing out some of those leadership princip principles fall away. Like I may not be as clear about setting the course of I'm leading this deal team over the next three months. We're going to do this. These are the key milestone. They don't actually spend the time or the energy to do that. They also may find meeting with the people on their direct reports every single week, which is what I advocate, and that could be five or 10 minutes, but every week, oh my god, really? I got to meet with them. Oh my god, what do they they want more from? I don't want I don't It's I get that push back all the time. And if somebody really, let's say they work over the weekend, they have really good analysis, they present in the Monday morning meeting, I may ask them, I say, "Hey, did you walk up to that person afterwards and say, "Hey, like really good effort there. I know you worked hard." No, that's why not like I it's just not something that they're naturally thinking about. So the cardinal rule of being a great leader is appreciating deeply, really appreciating. And that is one of the areas that I think is most often overlooked. And one of the books that I tell these voracious leaders that I work with who are constantly hungry for reading articles and books is read Dale Carnegiey's How to Win Friends and Influence People. It's not really how to win friends and influence people. That sounds very contrived. It's really about how to connect meaningfully to others. And in the book he has, you know, several hundred meaningful quotes, but one of which is the deepest human principle is the craving to feel appreciated. And I think if you manage through that lens and that lens alone as you walked about the day, you're going to improve your manager your your leadership capability by 51%. You're already there uh halfway there to being a great leader. >> Really curious what other characteristics you've seen permeate investment organizations. >> There are four dichotoies. So I mentioned the T and the F. There's a fourth one. It's J or P. So J is judging it. It's it's how do we prefer to go about the world? and J is a very structured, regimented, scheduled. You know, the people who go on vacation and day one has planned this and day two has planned this, right? And then there the P is the other side whereas they just kind of want, hey, we're not really sure where we want to go on vacation. Let's just go and then we'll determine what we're going to do that day when we wake up. And that's the P, judging or perceiving. The general population is 55% J and 45% P. So a slight you know we're going to be scheduled regimented structured versus a little bit more pressure prompted flexible spontaneous impromptu. Okay, this world call 75% J 25% P and the majority so the other dichotomy is extroversion versus introversion it's about 6040 um it's but when we combine let's say an E extrovert with somebody who has a T preference which is they're hard driving and they're making tough decision they're not necessarily bringing somebody along you know along their decision-m process and filling them in along the way and they're driving to get stuff done and knock something off of their list. They could miss some important information and somebody may come say and say, "Hey, I just got this note. There's some good bit of information here." And this other person may say, "We already closed like we already move. We already sent that email." And sometimes the best information comes at the 11th hour and we may have to be a little bit spontaneous and flexible to actually get the best result. So I I constantly remind people of that. I'm curious whether you think in different investment areas, so take like a private equity versus venture capital, whether that dynamic between the P and the J would change. Maybe if it's the longer time horizon, you know, with venture capital and and maybe there is it's a little bit looser and we're paying maybe a little bit less, you know, a little bit less attention to the quarterly numbers, but the majority of my focus is is private equity, both grow growth equity and more of the buyout and their investment and their LP counterparts. And they're d they're generally driving it's very dealriven. It's very episodic and there's generally a lot of intensity around oh we got to co-invest and we get the second bid and the and there's that I see especially and these are stressful time people tend to lean into their preferences and part of our job and we even have it you know on on the back of on the back of their game plan we have their personality profiles there and I'm constantly reminding like what are you leaning into maybe a little bit more than you should be leaning into and what should you be mindful of and what might you be doing too much of and what might be doing too less of too too little of. Another big area that comes up is feedback. Good ways to give feedback, receive feedback. Would love to hear your perspective on that important aspect of leadership. This is a top five topic in coaching. It's generally because it's it's viewed giving feedback is often viewed as as confrontational and I I may actually hurt some of these feelings in spite of what I just shared about the TNF before. Again, this this is no commentary. This not a commentary on how the person who the person is, how the person feels, and they still don't want to hurt other people's feelings. So feedback can be tough, but it doesn't have to be. And oftentimes we use this this little technique called SBI. Situation, behavior, impact with they're all really important, but the impact is incredibly important. So the situation if I just Ted let's just say I was presenting a new deal in the Monday morning meeting and I see and you interrupted me you while I was presenting a handful of time like you know a few times instead of me just walking up to you after the meeting and say you're rude which immediately what's going to happen is your fight orflight mechanism kicks in anything that follows from there there's no real growth they're not even going hear me? It's not specific. It's not helpful. If I just say, "You always interrupt me." That's not really specific. And again, I'm I'm I'm almost speaking more to your character. So, you're going to shut down. But what if I said this in Monday morning in the this past Monday morning meeting, and you want to do it as as soon as you can after the after the incident or after what happened. when I was presenting, you interrupted me three times and I felt like what you had to say was more important than what I had to say or you undermined or you kind of the impact on me. You upset my thinking. You distracted me. And so what I what did I do there? I said it was three times. I didn't say you always interrupted me or you kept interrupting me because maybe you did. Maybe you held back about 10 times because you wanted to share more. I identified the specific behavior. you interrupted me. And then most importantly, they're all important, but most important is the impact on me, how I felt. And you can also use that sort of how it maybe impacted the team. But at no point I'm saying anything about you or your character. And generally the type of reaction that that elicits is, oh Matt, that's wasn't my intention. Actually, what you said, you know, I wanted to build upon it. I want to add to it. It doesn't trigger the defensiveness. >> I'd love to hear if there are any other ways of approaching feedback you found that resonate better with the recipient. >> Aim for feed feed forward. It could be tough. It's let's just say you're presenting something. Well, we'll stick with this theme, but you're presenting something and I also know that you're you're working on improving your public speaking skills and it it may be a third rail or electrically charged sort of topic and if I start if we spend 30 minutes dissecting what it is that you just did. Now, we need to spend a little bit of time on it, but if we anchored you into the future and if we said, "Hey, you know, two weeks you're going to get another opportunity. What are the things you want to kind of bring into that presentation that you want to do?" There's generally you might even be sitting up in your seat leaning forward because you're excited about the next opportunity as opposed to the kind of going through and litigating something that I just experienced. I also would really identify a highlight reel. The rate of positive change is far greater when you focus on somebody a behavior that went well and that you want them to repeat as opposed to digging into something that didn't work. For example, in Tom Landry, the legendary football coach for the Dallas Cowboys, the film sessions in between Sundays, he would actually piece together highlight reels for his players and he would say, "Oh, when you broke off the line and you got free and you caught that touchdown, what was happening there?" Well, you get somebody who's really excited to answer that question and they want to replicate that and they want to repeat it as opposed to, you know, showing fumbles and showing mishaps. Yes, we need to understand the mishaps. need to understand what went arry, but spend a lot more time on the things that went right, you're much more likely to get that behavior, you know, see that behavior replicated in the future. Most of the time when we think about giving feedback to someone on the team, we do think about improvements. This is feedback so they can get better. That frame of I'm going to show you all the positive things feels like it might leave out the critical things that someone's getting wrong. What are the best ways of addressing challenging situations? This is you know one of the leadership principles which I is take more of the coaching approach and coaching so people don't misinterpret that coaching is not directing it's not tell it's not prescribing doctors prescribe advisers advise consultants tell you what to do coaches actually may engage you in a convers or they should engage you in a conversation and ask you questions like hey when you were presenting what were you thinking about there what what was happening there how did you prepare How might you think about it differently next time? So, the answers that you're going to get is you would probably tell me, you know, I probably put a little bit too pressure on myself or I could have spent a little bit more time Sunday night. But if you ask open-ended questions, try to avoid the why. Why put somebody on the defensive? Ask how or what questions. How are you thinking about that? What happened there? How do you think it landed on the room? What might you do differently next time? you know, what have you done in the past has worked really well for you? How can we replicate that here? You're going to get you'll probably get at some of that stuff that didn't work and then you can really dig into it, but the other person is realizing it like ah yeah that makes a lot of sense to me. I want to grab on to something you mentioned of this idea of you recommend that leaders meet with people on their team once a week. What are some of those other tools in addition to that on the day-to-day basis when someone's going about leading a team that you recommend? So the the day-to-day basis and meeting once a week and I often get just you you raised that and often people roll their eyes a little bit like every week and this is the data indicates this and one of the people that I follow and and read quite a bit uh of his work is Marcus Buckingham and Marcus Buckingham from the Gallup organization wrote one of the best books on business for my money. I think it's called first break all the rules and it was b it was based upon research that he and the Gallup organization did in 400 companies 80,000 managers and these these are the things that great managers do and he is quite he's out there saying you need to meet with your people once a week and if you say to me that I can't meet with my people once a week I may get into well why not and say well you know I have 20 people that's too many people you should not be having you know the six to eight is kind of the sweet spot thought. But let's just even take the 20. I still think that that person can meet with his folks once a week. And it's doesn't have to be an hour conversation. It could be knocking on the door, popping by, say, "Ted, what do you got going on this week? What are your priorities?" And you say, "Well, I got this. I got this. I got this. How could I be of assistance to you?" It could be five minutes. So much happens in that five minutes. One could be the manager may say, "Ted, like maybe you shouldn't be working on that because we have this presentation on Friday. We should probably I just got this new bit of information. Let me share that with you. Maybe that'll adjust your week." It also messages to you that you matter. What you're about to spend 40 to 60 to 80 hours on, I actually have line of sight into as your manager. And that that means again going back to that the deepest human principles, the feeling to the craving to be appreciated. That means that I've taken the time to understand what you're now going to spend your entire week on. And then I offer my assistance and they could potentially help you accomplish those those those items and make it a really successful week for you. If we have these set of goals that we have for ourselves and they're generally whether they're six month goals, one year goals and they can be longer. We do a winning of the day. So something what if we whether it's the night before the morning of our prompt is what would make today a winning day and I I pulled that from you in Wrigleyfield Chicago Cubs if they win they they hang the the white flag for indicating to the the entire city that the the Cubs won that day. What is your version of hanging the flag of a winning day? What are the three or four things you're going to do today that would kind of advance the ball down the field? We don't always accomplish everything in one day, but we either start something, we continue something, or we conclude something, but we really want to be intentional about how we're going to spend the time in front of us or if we do it Sunday night or Monday night, the the day the next day. So, this really micro focus on the day working in service of those six or one month goals. If you're going to take this exercise of winning the day and start to use it every day, what are the ways that are more effective in writing down what it is in service of what you're trying to accomplish? Specificity or being explicit is really important. And I also think checking in after the day or certainly we have prompts at the end of the week looking back on the week that was, you know, what are the things that worked, what are the things that didn't work. What I have found is we do this for a month and then it become a little bit monotonous to do it like every single morning and and for me to check in with them. It becomes a little bit wrote and it becomes a pro that they are thinking about and it becomes part of the DNA of the day or the week and it just becomes a part of how they think. But, you know, gaming the system or writing something down that's too easy or that we know we can get through, that's not fooling anybody. So, we we need to we need to, you know, to be honest and authentic with ourselves of what would be meaningful enough for us to advance what it is that we need to get done. What's changed in what you've seen about what's made for effective coaching or ways that you've been able to help organizations that might be different from what it was a couple years ago? Two things. one the initial six-month engagements the way I started the business model about 10 years ago has turned into sixyear sevenyear 8year 9-year relationships and something very powerful happens when you go from an executive coaching partner to this like leadership advisor where there's a tremendous amount of trust and there's also a bunch of institutional knowledge so that person could pick up you know on something that we had spoken about 2 years ago and doesn't have to kind of reinvent something. The second is this starting with a founder or two founders could be that's that six-month engagement. They find real value in it and then there's this a bit of a light bulb goes off and say I really would want my other people to experience this across the organization in particular you know that creating of the game plan or that that document that they create. They're like be really great if if our entire leadership team did one of these or and the individual leaders had one of those. So that like kind of landing and expanding over the years has happened where you start working with one or two people and then it goes to five and then it goes to eight. And what's really awesome Ted and some of the the best sessions that I have when we sit around a table and we have nine people discussing checking in on their group game plan. the executive leadership team game plan or the London game plan and people are talking about the things that are really working, the things that maybe are not working, the things that we can do better, but they're I'm basically a facilitator of conversations that never take place without this construct. And often times I'll get feedback afterwards say Matt like that was the most valuable hour of the entire month that we had. It's getting people together, asking potentially tough questions, them feeling trusted because there's a there's a shared background in history, and they're they're more willing to engage in maybe uncomfortable conversations that they normally wouldn't have all steeped in bringing about these stated objectives and outcomes. I did not foresee this 10 years ago when I started. A lot of times, particularly say in the hedge fun world, you think about coaching. You think about like the Wendy Rhodess character in billions who's inside the organization having conversations with a bunch of different people in service of the leader in the organization. >> What have you found are the benefits and drawbacks of being an outside coach to an organization and particularly the ones where you are deeply embedded in for several years? Well, first I love that show. love that character and there are it's interesting. So people do bring you Matt, you're you're kind of like the Wendy of such an organiz such and such organization. I'm like and I I see that as a compliment and then I say not quite. So Wendy worked or that character worked inside the organization. So she is an employee and she reported to the CE in in the head the managing partner CEO acts and there's can be something pretty powerful being outside an organization where intentionally a very different email address may not be in every day and there's a little bit more comfort I think in sharing information with me or one of the members of on my team versus if that person were an employee of the organization. I know I felt that way when I was an executive and they offered coaching on site versus I've been working with my coach for for a really long time for then that was part of the reason trying to think of the drawbacks. I think somebody who didn't grow up in the system who may not actually be, let's say, a deal partner or be an investor, how much can Matt or a team member really understand about my day-to-day that that could potentially be a challenge? I have found and I'm quite intentional. There have been several opportunities along the way to to join organizations to become like a chief performance officer and I think the independence is it, you know, can there are more more benefits than there are negatives. One of the things you touched on earlier was working with the LP community. >> How does that look different than your work in the GP community? >> There are lots of similarities and there are lots of differences. Um, some of the diff I'd say that the differences are and just one that's very fresh because I just had a conversation about this. I got a call from an LP. He was super excited. He said, "Matt, the person that you've been working with the last couple, not not me, somebody on my team I've been working with, you know, they they got this offer to go to another endowment. It was a bigger opportunity. It was an advancement." And this person was excited about that. And that promotion and like developing people, yes, for your organization, of course, but also seeing the people who are on your team grow to such a point where they're they're hired away to a bigger opportunity. That's like a badge of honor versus on the on the GP side viewed as a scarlet letter. There are many reasons why people leave, but not something that somebody would be calling me up and boasting about. That's a major major difference. >> Why do you think that's the case? on the GP side there could be let's say many deal partners and there are just many that there's one on the LP side there's one CIO who's running that particular office and it's there fewer opportunities I think as somebody elevates to take on a you know a more a more meaty role and I think there also just structurally and systemically there could be a whole order of magnitude add a whole other zero to the amount of money that they would be allocating and that that's adds to the complexity. There's a lot more people. There's more managerial opportunities. Um but within one organization there not you know so many places to go. I think on the GP side there are many more places to go. You could have a really wonderful 20 or 30 year career as a deal partner. >> How about other differences? similar there's that one sort of unit somebody who's leading that particular office and it's probably more like you have the junior person who's reporting to the next the more or more senior person that person's reporting to the other person you know especially more in smaller offices called 10 or 11 or 12 person offices on the GP side that junior let's take the associate they could report to three or four or five people they could be working on three or four or five deals the nucleus in on on the GP side, let's take private equity is the deal team. So those deal partners are actually like many CEOs and all the more important to actually stress leadership across that organization because there are many leaders who are leading those those deals. But there's not necessarily the same type of reporting structure on the GP side. In fact, it's it's massively it's it's quite different. If you ask a VP who do they report to they might be confused by the question mean like which deal like what do you mean or you have a VP and associate who are working on a deal on a work stream here you have a partner and a principal or a partner and you know working on that team they might they would be confused by that question >> how about some of the maybe nonobvious similarities of working with an LP organization compared to GP >> failures in communication dropping the ball in communication is universal GP LP and at every other organization as well. Ambitious leaders take on too much in their plate. They don't know they don't delegate as much as they should. Uh they're not communicating the vision as as often as they should. They're not meeting with their people as often as they should. These are commonalities that we see both on the GP or or LP side. That notion of delegation, that's one of the hardest things which is this notion, one of our principles is let go to lead. And while they principally were the ones who were doing the work as they were elevating, now they're doing the work through other people. And that's a commonality on on both sides. And that's one of the hardest things for them to let go of. Mahatma Gandhi when he said, "There go my people. I must follow them for I am their leader. And I know, you know, we're not Gandhi and the folks that we work with are not Gandhi, but what is it about that statement? What is he saying there? And I need to lead through these people who I've spent a lot of time hiring and training and developing and I have to believe in them and I trust them and I need to lead from behind. As hard as that is, that is a universal challenge that I see. If you look at where you are today with inflection point as a business, how do you think about applying all the leadership principles to where you are and where you want to take the business from here? I spend a lot of time on figuring out the course. So one of the 10 leadership principles is setting the course and this space professional services it's such a dynamic space. So I apply this the same lens or I really tried to apply the same lens to me. I have this amazing group of coaches and I probably don't do it enough but I try to, you know, appreciate them deeply. I try to be really clear about here's our tools. How could I be of helpful help to you? Here's the game plan system. Am I providing enough training to you? Am I communicating enough? And I I I try to be a student of the game as well. I have to candidly I I I that whole delegation piece is a real challenge for me too. And these are also these rel these these become really meaningful partnerships. These partnerships become relationships and it's not I just can't let anybody in on these these relationships. So it's it it can become a real challenge and part of my game plan which I happen to be just staring at my game plan now is about putting some of these some of these tools these leadership framework to work. I have to remind myself of that. I'd love to close with where we started and hear a little bit about the why and the vision that you have for inflection point for the next 10 years. >> Let me start with the why. My I get up every morning and I'm really clear that I want to ignite careers and energize lives. And if there is a fist pump that some version of a fist pump in my client or a team or an organization that can be expressed, that's what I'm aiming for. I'm hungry for that to ignite careers and energize lives. the form that it takes is still going through like what what this inflection point looks like in five years is like still in the larvai stage. We have offsites and there's revenue numbers that we're aiming for and certain number of of clients and engagements that we're that we're aiming for. But the why kind of what drives me and hopefully what drives the people who are the coaches on my team is to really work in service of others. And selfishly, that's my fuel to see the letters and we see of hey man that was really helpful or Matt that was one of the most helpful meetings that we had or were able to close that fund or I attribute some of my success to getting promoted to some of the work that we we don't do it for that but it c certainly feels good and that's igniting that person's career energizing that person's life and whatever version of a fist pump that that person has that's what gets gets me out of bed in the morning. Yeah, it'd be interesting to see where it goes. The last nine months have been heavily on the AI front and almost we have so much information. I I've 5,500 coaching sessions, 600 360deree reviews that I've conducted and gathering information and some of these observations that I'm I'm sharing with you about. There is a version of this that not only continues to generate insights because it's it's already helped me like those 10 leadership principles for example we swam in the data and using AI to really help us swim in the data but also can we complement can AI provide that prompt to each one of our clients about hey like what would be a really successful thing you your goal was the following that you stated what are the three things you're going to do today that going to work in service of that and that's driven by an AI that is you know maybe on your phone or a person's computer and we're in the developmental stages of that. So, I'm most excited about that. It's going to be, you know, I sort of joke it's like inflection point GPT. That's like the next incarnation of this. But why we do it will never change. One of the things we've talked about is this distinction between working in the business, being a coach, and working on the business. And it's something that you see with investment organizations all the time, right? whether it's the deal or investing itself is in the business but then you have to find time to work on the business. How do you advise uh your clients to figure out how to manage their time so that they both can maximally be investing working in the business but then also doing what they have to do around the organization working on the business. it becomes part of the goals that they work on and you're exactly that phrasing working in versus working on or kind of you know living among the trees versus kind of seeing the forest and we need we need the time to reflect especially on investment thesis and how are we thinking about this we need that time and we generally set objectives and goals around that and it's stated it's might be you know one column of the game plan might be much more macro focused another column of the game plan might be much more micro auto focused. And as annoying as this may be, we actually work directly with them and their executive assistant. We go in and calendar time for this versus in versus working in versus working on. And we kind of hide this is time that's dedicated to doing this. This is time to dedicated to dedicated to doing that. So, we get as granular as literally like programming the calendar. >> All right, Matt, while I have you, I want to get a chance to ask you a couple of closing questions, a little different from the last time. What one thing do most people not know about you that you find interesting? >> I have a real passion for cars and specifically driving cars. So, I'm on the racetrack, not often enough, but I try to get I've been 30 35 times, mostly at a Limerock Race Park in Connecticut. And this obsession started in 2009 2010ish. And one of the things I really involved I love kind of the just the feeling and the sensation of driving and it's really an exercise in physics and I also change my own oil. Ted a lot of people don't don't know that. Which two people excluding your spouse have had the biggest impact on your professional life? >> It's key that you excluded my spouse because Sharon has been you know massively supportive of me. My coach of 15 years, Peter Peter Hazelig, has had a profound impact on my professional and and and personal career, but my personal life, but professional career. I started working with him in 2010 when I was had a fantastic job with wonderful people at MTV networks and I started working with him and we together we kind of outlined the path to ultimately get closer to my why, kind of what I was just describing to you before. and I still meet with him regularly. The other person is one of my professors from one of my certification programs. Her name is Margaret McClean Walsh and she sadly passed away a few months ago uh from a really aggressive form of cancer. She doggedly pursued me to come back and complete all the elements of the Columbia coaching program. And on the last one, I had to write a thesis, like a 30-page paper on something that I was really interested and passionate about, like a peer-reviewed paper with footnotes and and lots of research and people had to read it. And that paper became the basis for the game plan system for the achieve goal setting model, the acronym that was created, and ultimately the book that came out of that. So, I'm actually not so sure that if she'd not if she did not sort of reach out to me and sort of stam me, hey, like we have an opening, you want to come back? Some of those some of them would have, but not all of them would have kind of manifested. What's the best advice you've ever received? Very simple, but you don't get something for nothing. I also grew up a drummer, and my idol growing up was Neil Pier, the the the drummer for Rush, who's considered the Michael Jordan of drumming. He wrote all of the lyrics for Rush. One of their songs is Something for Nothing. And I remember that was just I've gotten here and get to do what I get to do every single day cuz I've worked I I work really really hard. I put in the time. And as I tell people when I transition from executive to executive coach, I wanted to do it the right way. And they say, "Well, what's the right way?" And I say, "I want to learn everything about coaching and the coaching conversation, the science behind it." and I got certification after certification so I could kind of look my clients in the eyes and say I've yes I've worked and yes I'm driven to do this work I enjoy the work I work just as hard as my clients and and they work they work really really hard um but you don't get something for nothing period what brings you the greatest joy I think we spoke about it earlier which is from on a professional in the professional context is seeing people bring about the outcomes that are on their game plan. It's just it is the greatest it's the greatest feeling I think because it speaks to impact like actually what we did the time we spent together the mockinations that we went through to create some of these things and the time that we put in to do those prompts and to check in on the stuff and to calendar actually achieving that outcome. It speaks to impact. I want to matter. I the work that I do, I want the work to matter. And I think the more that we're able to achieve and bring about of things that are meaningful and consequential to them, that mean that means we're doing stuff that has impact. >> All right, Matt, one more. If the next five years or a chapter in your life, what's that chapter about? >> It's inflection point GPT. working with developers now and it's going to be kind of an AI compliment and it's going to be infused in in the work that we do making our lives easier and better at what we do and making a massive difference to the clients that we work with. >> Well, Matt, thanks so much for sharing all your insights. >> My pleasure. I loved being here. [Music]
Matt Spielman – Igniting Careers and Energizing Lives – (EP.463)
Summary
Transcript
It's important for them to understand, you know, how they and their organization got there, which is they got there not because they were great leaders, but because they were really good at doing the job, doing the work, doing the analysis, doing the presentation, [Music] >> Matt, great to see you. It's great to be here, Ten. So, you've been at this for 10 years now. What have you found works? So what I find that works that people really grab on to is a system and structure. I think executive coaching or professional development I think by nature can be a little bit squishy. And what I really tried to do is provide a system that people can grab on to and say we're in this part of the system now. Now we're in this one and now we're in this one. So I I think they like the the structure. Now the structure combined with this I mean I dare say this maniacal focus on outcomes and achievement and results I think also sort of rings true for a lot of the folks who kind of grab on to it. They get a lot out of it I think a lot more than they thought they were going to get. When you put the system in place, what types of outcomes is the system driving towards? >> Determined by the individual andor the team. We often engage executive teams or even offices, but it's determined by them. It's certainly not something that I come in or my team comes in and said, "This would be a really meaningful outcome for you." We can give background or context of what Yeah. I mean, we've had thousands of coaching sessions, hundreds and hundreds of game plans. These are some of the things that people aim for, but it's really driven by them. The outcomes can be somebody wants to advance to the next level, somebody wants to raise a certain size fund, somebody wants to launch a new type of initiative, somebody wants to open up an office, somebody wants to acquire a sports team. They can be really lofty goals. And we complement that with also things that are going on in their life. So it could be in their family, could be at home or out of the office. I that's a really important focus of ours recognizing that you know people just they're not robots. We can't just sort of show up and compartmentalize all the other facets or pieces of our life. We do have them set goals for nonwork related outcomes. So once you set that process in place, having worked with lots of leaders at this point and particularly in asset management, what have you found are some of the characteristics of like who these really great leaders are and what they go through? probably was the 4,000 session coaching session mark where I began to I sat back began to reflect and some themes emerged of some of these leaders, these managing partners, these CEOs, these managing directors etc. And the one that sort of kind of ironically that sits at the top is that it's really lonely at the top. Really lonely at the top. So often times an individual or a partnership team, they have things in their head that they're thinking about that they can't share with anybody else and they've exhausted all the air time they have with their significant other at home. And that person's thinking, I don't really have somebody else to talk to about this. And these are fairly meaty, meaningful things. And they often walk around and and there's an element of a pangs of of of loneliness. one of our clients and our phase one of the game plan system. So, kind of the diagnostic stage. I walk into his office and he said, "Matt, I I know you have this GPS thing. I know you have this system. I just want to talk to you for the next 30 minutes. I've been carrying around a bunch of stuff. I can't share it with people here at work. I can't share it at home. I just need to talk to somebody about this." And that's where the light bulb went off and I said, I began to look at some of my other folks and other partners and this is a real common theme. What's an example that you could share of something that someone at the top is coming to you and they just can't talk to anybody else about? We have a major departure um that we're working through where we don't have the details finalized. So, there's nothing to announce yet, but this is weighing on my mind. This could really impact some of our efforts that we're working through right now. And I need to talk to somebody about this to begin to strategize like what when what do we say? what they can't share with anybody else. >> What have you found of those same people, so they they have those types of challenges that the best ones do really well. They're really clear on their why. One of the things we do early on in the engagement in the relationship is I really want to get at what is it that drives them. It's generally beyond the fund size. It's generally beyond the returns. It's generally beyond all the stuff that people other people see. There's generally something that really goes back to well I came over from another country and I came here with nothing and I want to prove to other myself and other people. We don't quite go through the Toyota 5 wise for for those who studied the Toyota 5 in that case because that could be a little bit annoying but we do get down to at least two or three potentially four. And if you understand what it is that drives you, some of the things that could really weigh us down actually we have the power to work through them. It was my observation but this was echoed well before me by Nietze by Frankle by Simon Synynic where they say essentially the people who have their why can work through almost any how and then I added can accomplish almost any what. So we really want to understand the why and these people are what I have found the commonality is when I begin to get at what is it that really drives you what hugely value they have an answer on the tip of their tongue that was an interesting observation for me cuz not everybody does which also means they're more resilient and they can bounce back from some of the the things that they face every single day when that why is apparent to the individual who's leading. How does that then translate to building an organization or working with an organization to achieve some common goal that may be specific to that individual because that is specific to that particular person doesn't mean that's what drives other people as well. What really needs to happen from there is really great leaders set the course and they set if if that what I I believe that and I I believe that to be the core purpose and Jim Collins who wrote good to great and built to last wrote this really great HBR piece called about defining your company's vision and he talks about what do you get up out of bed to go do every single day and that's your core purpose and that could be the company's core purpose as well so that works individual company but that needs to translate into some kind of vision. So what is it that we want to do? We want to maybe raise a certain fund size by a certain time frame. It translates into something that we're going to bring about and then the real so that's setting the course and leaders need to set the course. Leaders need to tell the folks on their team and across the organization here's where we're going. Yes, they can get input you know from their their leadership team and they can there little listening corners but they need to set the course. And then exceptional leaders in their conversations, interactions with people can kind of get at what is it about that outcome that drives them? What what drives them every morning when they get out of bed? Because the people on their team who are running deals, they're going to experience hiccups along the way. and if it it's going to be a different why for that individual and for all individuals than it is for for him or her who's leading the organization. Feels like that can get complicated. The more people you have in the organization, the more you got to there's an element that feels like a therapist trying to figure out like what is it exactly that each person wants? When you've seen people figure that out, well, how do they make it work? What we have found is yeah, an organization can have a game plan. Here's the vision statement. Here's what it is we're working towards. Here we're setting the course. Here's our organization's core purpose using um Collins as parts. And this is kind of why we're doing what we're doing. And now it's up to all of you to identify, okay, what do you need to contribute to that in order to bring those outcomes about and be really clear on your why and the meaning and the consequence or what we also call the so what. If the goal is the what, then what's the so why is that important? Everybody has their own individual game plan. So what may seem maybe a little bit complicated is actually quite organized um when it's put into action. So asset management in particular is sort of notoriously about managing money and maybe not as effective about managing people. I'd love to hear when you first are talking to someone, so you're not embedded in their organization. You haven't worked through a lot of the processes. What do you see in in the holes of people understanding how to lead others that are in these seats that are running these organizations? Well, first it's important for them to understand, you know, how they and their organization got there, which is they got there not because they were great leaders, but because they were really good at doing the job, doing the work, doing the analysis, doing the presentation, asking the right questions at the management presentation, etc., not because they were really deathly able to lead a deal team. So, that's where we start that I understand why you're not necessarily a good leader. And then there's generally a nodding and laughing and a smiling and a smirking of understanding, yeah, you know, that that's not what we're really known for. So, we established that kind of right at the outset. And then we go through, you know, these people because they've also invited us in, they're committed to continuous improvement. An interesting an interesting observation Ted also when I was I was reflecting is those people who were the most busy and had the busiest schedule and they were traveling all over they were the ones who were voracious to read the books or the articles and to have the conversations and they kept all the coaching sessions. It was sort of sort of inversely correlated. They were committed to kind of learning, developing and growing because they also recognize what's going to separate their organization from another organization is what people call the soft stuff. But sometimes the soft stuff can be the hard stuff and that's the human stuff. It's the human stuff. Do you have the right position, the right role with the right training at the right compensation with the right are they getting the right feedback etc. So we go through a leadership framework that has been built over the last 10 years and then built on the shoulders of all the books and articles and then you know my 20 years of of being a leader and we go through and we activate each one of those leadership principles. some of the key roles you hear about in that activation kind of starts with that hiring process. What have you found or some of the ways that you help these organizations with their hiring practices? What I have found is the hiring process seems to work pretty well. There are a lot of terrific executive search firms that are out there and there's tremendous amount of time, energy, and financial resources spent on on that hire. Where companies drop the ball is they could do a much better job of assessment of during the interview process going into data and looking back on past successes of let's say hiring a CEO for a portfolio company what has worked and layering on those successes for into the hiring process. I've noted that not all of the firms are actually doing that. And there are several executive coaching firms who offer assessment work. So that is something that I've known that that I see where where where they they could improve. Here's where they really drop the ball. You hire, you spend months, time, money, and you extend an offer, negotiate, lawyers are involved, etc. Okay. start date. The first 90 days, 100 days are the most important and acutely vulnerable time in executives's tenure. And they often the companies view it as it's a done deal. Okay, we hired, they're going to start, and let's get them their passwords, their computer, and all that. And there's the bathroom, and you're off and running. You actually got them to the 20 yard line. Now, you're in the red zone. Now there has to be a fully built out structured 90 first 90 or 100 day process that they have to activate in order to give that person the chance that he or she is going to succeed. >> What are some of the most important aspects of that 90 days? >> There's an inherent tension between they've hired me to take on a leadership role. So there are massive expectations of me and in in our world that that we work in, you know, time is on a very short time horizon. And at the same time I need to learn. There's a lot that I don't know. There may be known knowns but there may be known no unknowns I need to learn. So listening to her making sure we sit down talk to everybody and part of that. So to gather vital information but also ensure that the body accepts the organ that's that that initial process can be very scripted and structured and it should be there should be very there should be intentionality with the questions that are asked who you see who you see when do you see them in person do you see them over the phone all of that that initial sort of building bridges gathering information being accepted by the organization is often overlooked and is or is given short shrift >> in the assessment part of before the onboarding piece. What types of tools go into trying to understand if you have the right person for the right role? There are several assessments that are administered and different organizations have their either proprietary tools or they use other assessments. So there are literally dozens of them and it's usually some deeply involved 6 to 7hour interview asking all sorts of questions and then layering it over a database of other bits of information from other interviews from other executives who have performed really well in roles like that to try to give us the greatest chance that we're going to hire the right person because as leaders we are casting directors. We are casting directors. to put the right person in the right role. >> When you've done an assessment, what are some of the ways that the personality types impact what happens in an investment organization? >> Some of your your audience may have taken the MyersBriggs the MyersBriggs type indicator launched in ' 62. A really wonderful assessment, but the footnote to this assessment or any other assessment, it's just how it's used. And I have somebody who's on my team, has her PhD, administers the Hogan and several others. And her favorite way to administer one assessment is to go to the MoMA. She's really into art. And she sits down with her partners and she asks them questions. Hey, what do you see here? How does that impact? What is, you know, and she ties what the person is looking at to get at what that person values, what that person sees. One I particularly like is MyersBriggs. And in this amazing profession uh or of financial services and asset management I have noticed there are a couple of things that jump out. One is if there's a certain dichotomy called thinking or feeling. So thinkers have a preference for looking at a situ. It's how they prefer to make a decision. And they look at a situation they step back. They analyze the situation and they render an objective. Okay. Hey, this is what we should do. The feelers look at a situation and they their preference is to jump into the situation almost like walk in the shoes of the person, place, thing or whatever is happening there. Just the general population is 40% thinkers T and 60% feelers or F. In my hundreds, it's I I I was just checking the end, you know, a couple days ago, 460 profiles and it was 80% thinkers and 20% feelers. Now, if we actually just only looked at investment professionals and not professional services like IR, it's probably more like 88 or 90% thinkers. So, what does that mean? Like that if that's the what, Matt, so what's the so what? That means that these organizations could be colder, a little bit tougher. They may not be thinking about what some of the employees are thinking about like, hey, I just went to a meeting. Somebody on my deal team is probably hungry for that information and are probably would really help them. Their their instinct is not necessarily to how are others thinking about this? How are others feeling? what energy can I expend in order to bring them into this? So, we often talk about we often talk about that. That sounds like a lack of empathy that the feeling sounds like you're walking in someone else's shoes. What does that do to an investment organization that is so dominated by the thinkers? It's not necessarily a lack of empathy. These are preferences just like you have a preference to write with your left hand versus you can write with your your your less dominant hand and you could even develop it over time. It doesn't mean it's a fat comply and that I'm not going to be really empathic. This is merely an energy expenditure. If you expend the energy, you could be wildly empathic and walk in somebody else's shoes. But when times are stressed, I likely don't expend that energy and I go into what something that's that's more natural or more normal. What I have found is the in these tougher environments where the tea is really playing out some of those leadership princip principles fall away. Like I may not be as clear about setting the course of I'm leading this deal team over the next three months. We're going to do this. These are the key milestone. They don't actually spend the time or the energy to do that. They also may find meeting with the people on their direct reports every single week, which is what I advocate, and that could be five or 10 minutes, but every week, oh my god, really? I got to meet with them. Oh my god, what do they they want more from? I don't want I don't It's I get that push back all the time. And if somebody really, let's say they work over the weekend, they have really good analysis, they present in the Monday morning meeting, I may ask them, I say, "Hey, did you walk up to that person afterwards and say, "Hey, like really good effort there. I know you worked hard." No, that's why not like I it's just not something that they're naturally thinking about. So the cardinal rule of being a great leader is appreciating deeply, really appreciating. And that is one of the areas that I think is most often overlooked. And one of the books that I tell these voracious leaders that I work with who are constantly hungry for reading articles and books is read Dale Carnegiey's How to Win Friends and Influence People. It's not really how to win friends and influence people. That sounds very contrived. It's really about how to connect meaningfully to others. And in the book he has, you know, several hundred meaningful quotes, but one of which is the deepest human principle is the craving to feel appreciated. And I think if you manage through that lens and that lens alone as you walked about the day, you're going to improve your manager your your leadership capability by 51%. You're already there uh halfway there to being a great leader. >> Really curious what other characteristics you've seen permeate investment organizations. >> There are four dichotoies. So I mentioned the T and the F. There's a fourth one. It's J or P. So J is judging it. It's it's how do we prefer to go about the world? and J is a very structured, regimented, scheduled. You know, the people who go on vacation and day one has planned this and day two has planned this, right? And then there the P is the other side whereas they just kind of want, hey, we're not really sure where we want to go on vacation. Let's just go and then we'll determine what we're going to do that day when we wake up. And that's the P, judging or perceiving. The general population is 55% J and 45% P. So a slight you know we're going to be scheduled regimented structured versus a little bit more pressure prompted flexible spontaneous impromptu. Okay, this world call 75% J 25% P and the majority so the other dichotomy is extroversion versus introversion it's about 6040 um it's but when we combine let's say an E extrovert with somebody who has a T preference which is they're hard driving and they're making tough decision they're not necessarily bringing somebody along you know along their decision-m process and filling them in along the way and they're driving to get stuff done and knock something off of their list. They could miss some important information and somebody may come say and say, "Hey, I just got this note. There's some good bit of information here." And this other person may say, "We already closed like we already move. We already sent that email." And sometimes the best information comes at the 11th hour and we may have to be a little bit spontaneous and flexible to actually get the best result. So I I constantly remind people of that. I'm curious whether you think in different investment areas, so take like a private equity versus venture capital, whether that dynamic between the P and the J would change. Maybe if it's the longer time horizon, you know, with venture capital and and maybe there is it's a little bit looser and we're paying maybe a little bit less, you know, a little bit less attention to the quarterly numbers, but the majority of my focus is is private equity, both grow growth equity and more of the buyout and their investment and their LP counterparts. And they're d they're generally driving it's very dealriven. It's very episodic and there's generally a lot of intensity around oh we got to co-invest and we get the second bid and the and there's that I see especially and these are stressful time people tend to lean into their preferences and part of our job and we even have it you know on on the back of on the back of their game plan we have their personality profiles there and I'm constantly reminding like what are you leaning into maybe a little bit more than you should be leaning into and what should you be mindful of and what might you be doing too much of and what might be doing too less of too too little of. Another big area that comes up is feedback. Good ways to give feedback, receive feedback. Would love to hear your perspective on that important aspect of leadership. This is a top five topic in coaching. It's generally because it's it's viewed giving feedback is often viewed as as confrontational and I I may actually hurt some of these feelings in spite of what I just shared about the TNF before. Again, this this is no commentary. This not a commentary on how the person who the person is, how the person feels, and they still don't want to hurt other people's feelings. So feedback can be tough, but it doesn't have to be. And oftentimes we use this this little technique called SBI. Situation, behavior, impact with they're all really important, but the impact is incredibly important. So the situation if I just Ted let's just say I was presenting a new deal in the Monday morning meeting and I see and you interrupted me you while I was presenting a handful of time like you know a few times instead of me just walking up to you after the meeting and say you're rude which immediately what's going to happen is your fight orflight mechanism kicks in anything that follows from there there's no real growth they're not even going hear me? It's not specific. It's not helpful. If I just say, "You always interrupt me." That's not really specific. And again, I'm I'm I'm almost speaking more to your character. So, you're going to shut down. But what if I said this in Monday morning in the this past Monday morning meeting, and you want to do it as as soon as you can after the after the incident or after what happened. when I was presenting, you interrupted me three times and I felt like what you had to say was more important than what I had to say or you undermined or you kind of the impact on me. You upset my thinking. You distracted me. And so what I what did I do there? I said it was three times. I didn't say you always interrupted me or you kept interrupting me because maybe you did. Maybe you held back about 10 times because you wanted to share more. I identified the specific behavior. you interrupted me. And then most importantly, they're all important, but most important is the impact on me, how I felt. And you can also use that sort of how it maybe impacted the team. But at no point I'm saying anything about you or your character. And generally the type of reaction that that elicits is, oh Matt, that's wasn't my intention. Actually, what you said, you know, I wanted to build upon it. I want to add to it. It doesn't trigger the defensiveness. >> I'd love to hear if there are any other ways of approaching feedback you found that resonate better with the recipient. >> Aim for feed feed forward. It could be tough. It's let's just say you're presenting something. Well, we'll stick with this theme, but you're presenting something and I also know that you're you're working on improving your public speaking skills and it it may be a third rail or electrically charged sort of topic and if I start if we spend 30 minutes dissecting what it is that you just did. Now, we need to spend a little bit of time on it, but if we anchored you into the future and if we said, "Hey, you know, two weeks you're going to get another opportunity. What are the things you want to kind of bring into that presentation that you want to do?" There's generally you might even be sitting up in your seat leaning forward because you're excited about the next opportunity as opposed to the kind of going through and litigating something that I just experienced. I also would really identify a highlight reel. The rate of positive change is far greater when you focus on somebody a behavior that went well and that you want them to repeat as opposed to digging into something that didn't work. For example, in Tom Landry, the legendary football coach for the Dallas Cowboys, the film sessions in between Sundays, he would actually piece together highlight reels for his players and he would say, "Oh, when you broke off the line and you got free and you caught that touchdown, what was happening there?" Well, you get somebody who's really excited to answer that question and they want to replicate that and they want to repeat it as opposed to, you know, showing fumbles and showing mishaps. Yes, we need to understand the mishaps. need to understand what went arry, but spend a lot more time on the things that went right, you're much more likely to get that behavior, you know, see that behavior replicated in the future. Most of the time when we think about giving feedback to someone on the team, we do think about improvements. This is feedback so they can get better. That frame of I'm going to show you all the positive things feels like it might leave out the critical things that someone's getting wrong. What are the best ways of addressing challenging situations? This is you know one of the leadership principles which I is take more of the coaching approach and coaching so people don't misinterpret that coaching is not directing it's not tell it's not prescribing doctors prescribe advisers advise consultants tell you what to do coaches actually may engage you in a convers or they should engage you in a conversation and ask you questions like hey when you were presenting what were you thinking about there what what was happening there how did you prepare How might you think about it differently next time? So, the answers that you're going to get is you would probably tell me, you know, I probably put a little bit too pressure on myself or I could have spent a little bit more time Sunday night. But if you ask open-ended questions, try to avoid the why. Why put somebody on the defensive? Ask how or what questions. How are you thinking about that? What happened there? How do you think it landed on the room? What might you do differently next time? you know, what have you done in the past has worked really well for you? How can we replicate that here? You're going to get you'll probably get at some of that stuff that didn't work and then you can really dig into it, but the other person is realizing it like ah yeah that makes a lot of sense to me. I want to grab on to something you mentioned of this idea of you recommend that leaders meet with people on their team once a week. What are some of those other tools in addition to that on the day-to-day basis when someone's going about leading a team that you recommend? So the the day-to-day basis and meeting once a week and I often get just you you raised that and often people roll their eyes a little bit like every week and this is the data indicates this and one of the people that I follow and and read quite a bit uh of his work is Marcus Buckingham and Marcus Buckingham from the Gallup organization wrote one of the best books on business for my money. I think it's called first break all the rules and it was b it was based upon research that he and the Gallup organization did in 400 companies 80,000 managers and these these are the things that great managers do and he is quite he's out there saying you need to meet with your people once a week and if you say to me that I can't meet with my people once a week I may get into well why not and say well you know I have 20 people that's too many people you should not be having you know the six to eight is kind of the sweet spot thought. But let's just even take the 20. I still think that that person can meet with his folks once a week. And it's doesn't have to be an hour conversation. It could be knocking on the door, popping by, say, "Ted, what do you got going on this week? What are your priorities?" And you say, "Well, I got this. I got this. I got this. How could I be of assistance to you?" It could be five minutes. So much happens in that five minutes. One could be the manager may say, "Ted, like maybe you shouldn't be working on that because we have this presentation on Friday. We should probably I just got this new bit of information. Let me share that with you. Maybe that'll adjust your week." It also messages to you that you matter. What you're about to spend 40 to 60 to 80 hours on, I actually have line of sight into as your manager. And that that means again going back to that the deepest human principles, the feeling to the craving to be appreciated. That means that I've taken the time to understand what you're now going to spend your entire week on. And then I offer my assistance and they could potentially help you accomplish those those those items and make it a really successful week for you. If we have these set of goals that we have for ourselves and they're generally whether they're six month goals, one year goals and they can be longer. We do a winning of the day. So something what if we whether it's the night before the morning of our prompt is what would make today a winning day and I I pulled that from you in Wrigleyfield Chicago Cubs if they win they they hang the the white flag for indicating to the the entire city that the the Cubs won that day. What is your version of hanging the flag of a winning day? What are the three or four things you're going to do today that would kind of advance the ball down the field? We don't always accomplish everything in one day, but we either start something, we continue something, or we conclude something, but we really want to be intentional about how we're going to spend the time in front of us or if we do it Sunday night or Monday night, the the day the next day. So, this really micro focus on the day working in service of those six or one month goals. If you're going to take this exercise of winning the day and start to use it every day, what are the ways that are more effective in writing down what it is in service of what you're trying to accomplish? Specificity or being explicit is really important. And I also think checking in after the day or certainly we have prompts at the end of the week looking back on the week that was, you know, what are the things that worked, what are the things that didn't work. What I have found is we do this for a month and then it become a little bit monotonous to do it like every single morning and and for me to check in with them. It becomes a little bit wrote and it becomes a pro that they are thinking about and it becomes part of the DNA of the day or the week and it just becomes a part of how they think. But, you know, gaming the system or writing something down that's too easy or that we know we can get through, that's not fooling anybody. So, we we need to we need to, you know, to be honest and authentic with ourselves of what would be meaningful enough for us to advance what it is that we need to get done. What's changed in what you've seen about what's made for effective coaching or ways that you've been able to help organizations that might be different from what it was a couple years ago? Two things. one the initial six-month engagements the way I started the business model about 10 years ago has turned into sixyear sevenyear 8year 9-year relationships and something very powerful happens when you go from an executive coaching partner to this like leadership advisor where there's a tremendous amount of trust and there's also a bunch of institutional knowledge so that person could pick up you know on something that we had spoken about 2 years ago and doesn't have to kind of reinvent something. The second is this starting with a founder or two founders could be that's that six-month engagement. They find real value in it and then there's this a bit of a light bulb goes off and say I really would want my other people to experience this across the organization in particular you know that creating of the game plan or that that document that they create. They're like be really great if if our entire leadership team did one of these or and the individual leaders had one of those. So that like kind of landing and expanding over the years has happened where you start working with one or two people and then it goes to five and then it goes to eight. And what's really awesome Ted and some of the the best sessions that I have when we sit around a table and we have nine people discussing checking in on their group game plan. the executive leadership team game plan or the London game plan and people are talking about the things that are really working, the things that maybe are not working, the things that we can do better, but they're I'm basically a facilitator of conversations that never take place without this construct. And often times I'll get feedback afterwards say Matt like that was the most valuable hour of the entire month that we had. It's getting people together, asking potentially tough questions, them feeling trusted because there's a there's a shared background in history, and they're they're more willing to engage in maybe uncomfortable conversations that they normally wouldn't have all steeped in bringing about these stated objectives and outcomes. I did not foresee this 10 years ago when I started. A lot of times, particularly say in the hedge fun world, you think about coaching. You think about like the Wendy Rhodess character in billions who's inside the organization having conversations with a bunch of different people in service of the leader in the organization. >> What have you found are the benefits and drawbacks of being an outside coach to an organization and particularly the ones where you are deeply embedded in for several years? Well, first I love that show. love that character and there are it's interesting. So people do bring you Matt, you're you're kind of like the Wendy of such an organiz such and such organization. I'm like and I I see that as a compliment and then I say not quite. So Wendy worked or that character worked inside the organization. So she is an employee and she reported to the CE in in the head the managing partner CEO acts and there's can be something pretty powerful being outside an organization where intentionally a very different email address may not be in every day and there's a little bit more comfort I think in sharing information with me or one of the members of on my team versus if that person were an employee of the organization. I know I felt that way when I was an executive and they offered coaching on site versus I've been working with my coach for for a really long time for then that was part of the reason trying to think of the drawbacks. I think somebody who didn't grow up in the system who may not actually be, let's say, a deal partner or be an investor, how much can Matt or a team member really understand about my day-to-day that that could potentially be a challenge? I have found and I'm quite intentional. There have been several opportunities along the way to to join organizations to become like a chief performance officer and I think the independence is it, you know, can there are more more benefits than there are negatives. One of the things you touched on earlier was working with the LP community. >> How does that look different than your work in the GP community? >> There are lots of similarities and there are lots of differences. Um, some of the diff I'd say that the differences are and just one that's very fresh because I just had a conversation about this. I got a call from an LP. He was super excited. He said, "Matt, the person that you've been working with the last couple, not not me, somebody on my team I've been working with, you know, they they got this offer to go to another endowment. It was a bigger opportunity. It was an advancement." And this person was excited about that. And that promotion and like developing people, yes, for your organization, of course, but also seeing the people who are on your team grow to such a point where they're they're hired away to a bigger opportunity. That's like a badge of honor versus on the on the GP side viewed as a scarlet letter. There are many reasons why people leave, but not something that somebody would be calling me up and boasting about. That's a major major difference. >> Why do you think that's the case? on the GP side there could be let's say many deal partners and there are just many that there's one on the LP side there's one CIO who's running that particular office and it's there fewer opportunities I think as somebody elevates to take on a you know a more a more meaty role and I think there also just structurally and systemically there could be a whole order of magnitude add a whole other zero to the amount of money that they would be allocating and that that's adds to the complexity. There's a lot more people. There's more managerial opportunities. Um but within one organization there not you know so many places to go. I think on the GP side there are many more places to go. You could have a really wonderful 20 or 30 year career as a deal partner. >> How about other differences? similar there's that one sort of unit somebody who's leading that particular office and it's probably more like you have the junior person who's reporting to the next the more or more senior person that person's reporting to the other person you know especially more in smaller offices called 10 or 11 or 12 person offices on the GP side that junior let's take the associate they could report to three or four or five people they could be working on three or four or five deals the nucleus in on on the GP side, let's take private equity is the deal team. So those deal partners are actually like many CEOs and all the more important to actually stress leadership across that organization because there are many leaders who are leading those those deals. But there's not necessarily the same type of reporting structure on the GP side. In fact, it's it's massively it's it's quite different. If you ask a VP who do they report to they might be confused by the question mean like which deal like what do you mean or you have a VP and associate who are working on a deal on a work stream here you have a partner and a principal or a partner and you know working on that team they might they would be confused by that question >> how about some of the maybe nonobvious similarities of working with an LP organization compared to GP >> failures in communication dropping the ball in communication is universal GP LP and at every other organization as well. Ambitious leaders take on too much in their plate. They don't know they don't delegate as much as they should. Uh they're not communicating the vision as as often as they should. They're not meeting with their people as often as they should. These are commonalities that we see both on the GP or or LP side. That notion of delegation, that's one of the hardest things which is this notion, one of our principles is let go to lead. And while they principally were the ones who were doing the work as they were elevating, now they're doing the work through other people. And that's a commonality on on both sides. And that's one of the hardest things for them to let go of. Mahatma Gandhi when he said, "There go my people. I must follow them for I am their leader. And I know, you know, we're not Gandhi and the folks that we work with are not Gandhi, but what is it about that statement? What is he saying there? And I need to lead through these people who I've spent a lot of time hiring and training and developing and I have to believe in them and I trust them and I need to lead from behind. As hard as that is, that is a universal challenge that I see. If you look at where you are today with inflection point as a business, how do you think about applying all the leadership principles to where you are and where you want to take the business from here? I spend a lot of time on figuring out the course. So one of the 10 leadership principles is setting the course and this space professional services it's such a dynamic space. So I apply this the same lens or I really tried to apply the same lens to me. I have this amazing group of coaches and I probably don't do it enough but I try to, you know, appreciate them deeply. I try to be really clear about here's our tools. How could I be of helpful help to you? Here's the game plan system. Am I providing enough training to you? Am I communicating enough? And I I I try to be a student of the game as well. I have to candidly I I I that whole delegation piece is a real challenge for me too. And these are also these rel these these become really meaningful partnerships. These partnerships become relationships and it's not I just can't let anybody in on these these relationships. So it's it it can become a real challenge and part of my game plan which I happen to be just staring at my game plan now is about putting some of these some of these tools these leadership framework to work. I have to remind myself of that. I'd love to close with where we started and hear a little bit about the why and the vision that you have for inflection point for the next 10 years. >> Let me start with the why. My I get up every morning and I'm really clear that I want to ignite careers and energize lives. And if there is a fist pump that some version of a fist pump in my client or a team or an organization that can be expressed, that's what I'm aiming for. I'm hungry for that to ignite careers and energize lives. the form that it takes is still going through like what what this inflection point looks like in five years is like still in the larvai stage. We have offsites and there's revenue numbers that we're aiming for and certain number of of clients and engagements that we're that we're aiming for. But the why kind of what drives me and hopefully what drives the people who are the coaches on my team is to really work in service of others. And selfishly, that's my fuel to see the letters and we see of hey man that was really helpful or Matt that was one of the most helpful meetings that we had or were able to close that fund or I attribute some of my success to getting promoted to some of the work that we we don't do it for that but it c certainly feels good and that's igniting that person's career energizing that person's life and whatever version of a fist pump that that person has that's what gets gets me out of bed in the morning. Yeah, it'd be interesting to see where it goes. The last nine months have been heavily on the AI front and almost we have so much information. I I've 5,500 coaching sessions, 600 360deree reviews that I've conducted and gathering information and some of these observations that I'm I'm sharing with you about. There is a version of this that not only continues to generate insights because it's it's already helped me like those 10 leadership principles for example we swam in the data and using AI to really help us swim in the data but also can we complement can AI provide that prompt to each one of our clients about hey like what would be a really successful thing you your goal was the following that you stated what are the three things you're going to do today that going to work in service of that and that's driven by an AI that is you know maybe on your phone or a person's computer and we're in the developmental stages of that. So, I'm most excited about that. It's going to be, you know, I sort of joke it's like inflection point GPT. That's like the next incarnation of this. But why we do it will never change. One of the things we've talked about is this distinction between working in the business, being a coach, and working on the business. And it's something that you see with investment organizations all the time, right? whether it's the deal or investing itself is in the business but then you have to find time to work on the business. How do you advise uh your clients to figure out how to manage their time so that they both can maximally be investing working in the business but then also doing what they have to do around the organization working on the business. it becomes part of the goals that they work on and you're exactly that phrasing working in versus working on or kind of you know living among the trees versus kind of seeing the forest and we need we need the time to reflect especially on investment thesis and how are we thinking about this we need that time and we generally set objectives and goals around that and it's stated it's might be you know one column of the game plan might be much more macro focused another column of the game plan might be much more micro auto focused. And as annoying as this may be, we actually work directly with them and their executive assistant. We go in and calendar time for this versus in versus working in versus working on. And we kind of hide this is time that's dedicated to doing this. This is time to dedicated to dedicated to doing that. So, we get as granular as literally like programming the calendar. >> All right, Matt, while I have you, I want to get a chance to ask you a couple of closing questions, a little different from the last time. What one thing do most people not know about you that you find interesting? >> I have a real passion for cars and specifically driving cars. So, I'm on the racetrack, not often enough, but I try to get I've been 30 35 times, mostly at a Limerock Race Park in Connecticut. And this obsession started in 2009 2010ish. And one of the things I really involved I love kind of the just the feeling and the sensation of driving and it's really an exercise in physics and I also change my own oil. Ted a lot of people don't don't know that. Which two people excluding your spouse have had the biggest impact on your professional life? >> It's key that you excluded my spouse because Sharon has been you know massively supportive of me. My coach of 15 years, Peter Peter Hazelig, has had a profound impact on my professional and and and personal career, but my personal life, but professional career. I started working with him in 2010 when I was had a fantastic job with wonderful people at MTV networks and I started working with him and we together we kind of outlined the path to ultimately get closer to my why, kind of what I was just describing to you before. and I still meet with him regularly. The other person is one of my professors from one of my certification programs. Her name is Margaret McClean Walsh and she sadly passed away a few months ago uh from a really aggressive form of cancer. She doggedly pursued me to come back and complete all the elements of the Columbia coaching program. And on the last one, I had to write a thesis, like a 30-page paper on something that I was really interested and passionate about, like a peer-reviewed paper with footnotes and and lots of research and people had to read it. And that paper became the basis for the game plan system for the achieve goal setting model, the acronym that was created, and ultimately the book that came out of that. So, I'm actually not so sure that if she'd not if she did not sort of reach out to me and sort of stam me, hey, like we have an opening, you want to come back? Some of those some of them would have, but not all of them would have kind of manifested. What's the best advice you've ever received? Very simple, but you don't get something for nothing. I also grew up a drummer, and my idol growing up was Neil Pier, the the the drummer for Rush, who's considered the Michael Jordan of drumming. He wrote all of the lyrics for Rush. One of their songs is Something for Nothing. And I remember that was just I've gotten here and get to do what I get to do every single day cuz I've worked I I work really really hard. I put in the time. And as I tell people when I transition from executive to executive coach, I wanted to do it the right way. And they say, "Well, what's the right way?" And I say, "I want to learn everything about coaching and the coaching conversation, the science behind it." and I got certification after certification so I could kind of look my clients in the eyes and say I've yes I've worked and yes I'm driven to do this work I enjoy the work I work just as hard as my clients and and they work they work really really hard um but you don't get something for nothing period what brings you the greatest joy I think we spoke about it earlier which is from on a professional in the professional context is seeing people bring about the outcomes that are on their game plan. It's just it is the greatest it's the greatest feeling I think because it speaks to impact like actually what we did the time we spent together the mockinations that we went through to create some of these things and the time that we put in to do those prompts and to check in on the stuff and to calendar actually achieving that outcome. It speaks to impact. I want to matter. I the work that I do, I want the work to matter. And I think the more that we're able to achieve and bring about of things that are meaningful and consequential to them, that mean that means we're doing stuff that has impact. >> All right, Matt, one more. If the next five years or a chapter in your life, what's that chapter about? >> It's inflection point GPT. working with developers now and it's going to be kind of an AI compliment and it's going to be infused in in the work that we do making our lives easier and better at what we do and making a massive difference to the clients that we work with. >> Well, Matt, thanks so much for sharing all your insights. >> My pleasure. I loved being here. [Music]