Recession-Proof Assets: Which 'Breakout Performer' Rallies Next? | Terrence Lynch
Summary
Market Outlook: The podcast discusses the current bull cycle in the precious metals and base metals sectors, highlighting that it is still early days with significant potential for growth as generalist investors have not yet fully entered the market.
Investment Drivers: Mining funds and specialized investors have been driving up prices, with increasing interest from generalist investors, indicating optimism for future investment in the metals sector.
Government Policy: The U.S. government's focus on securing critical mineral supply chains domestically, reducing reliance on China, is positively impacting the mining sector, with direct involvement from the Department of Defense and Department of Energy.
Company Strategy: Power Metallic is advancing its nickel powder business, which offers higher margins compared to raw nickel, and is also focused on expanding its orthomagmatic nickel-copper-PGE discovery in Quebec.
Shareholder Insights: Major shareholders include high-profile investors such as Robert Freeland and Gina Reinhardt, with management holding significant stakes, indicating strong confidence in the company's potential.
Future Demand: Electrification and AI are expected to drive future demand for copper, while platinum and palladium are poised to benefit from supply constraints and increased demand for catalytic converters and hydrogen applications.
Geopolitical Considerations: The U.S. aims to reduce reliance on foreign suppliers for critical minerals, with Canada and Mexico playing key roles in this strategy, while also addressing challenges in capital markets and permitting processes in Canada.
Company Outlook: Power Metallic aims to become a significant producer and explorer, with plans to list on the New York Stock Exchange and continue expanding its resource base, supported by government incentives and strategic partnerships.
Transcript
[Applause] [Music] Terrence Lynch, CEO of Power Metallic, joins us today. We're joined uh by a very esteemed CEO of this very interesting company. We're going to be talking about the outlook for precious metals, base metals, and the future of the demand for some of the most critical materials in our society. We're at the Beaver Creek Precious Metal Summit here in Colorado. Good to see you in beautiful Colorado. Thank you for being here. Great to be here, David. Thanks for having us. This conference is buzzing with activity. Sentiment is high. Uh a lot of optimism but also a little bit of skepticism for how much further this bull rally we've seen the precious metals and to a certain extent the base metals complex can run. So I'll just ask you to start the conversation. How far along in this bull cycle are we right now? I think it's still early days. You know uh I don't think a generalist investor has invested yet. So uh until that happens you really won't see the full deployment in in the in the metals sector still mostly people are in tech not in like if you look at the divergence between tech stocks and and commodity stocks it's never been higher so it's still very very early days while we've had a good move here in gold in particular and a little bit in silver uh still very very early days in my books. You say the generalist investor for the most part hasn't come into the space yet. So who's been driving up the prices this year? uh you know the the mining funds, you know, and the mining investors. So, there was enough of those to recognize, hey, things are turning. And then you're starting to see the generalist investors. I was in New York a couple weeks ago for a non-deal road show and uh saw 10 generalist investors. Hadn't seen a mining guy in like several years. So, and and after the thing, we weren't raising money, but after the after the meetings, the broker that brought us around and said, "Hey, they all want to invest and say, well, they better get in the market because we're not doing any issue right now." But it was good to see them come out and I think that's just the start and um that's really the reason to be optimistic. It's still early days and uh there's still great values out there in the sector I think. How is the conversation between yourself and some investors changed after the Trump administration took place. We know that there's a priority to uh sec to secure uh the critical minerals supply chain domestically versus depending on China which is now the global leader for lithium production, cobalt production, copper produ well not copper production but copper refining and so the US wants to be less reliant on the east. How has that shifted the conversation for you? Yeah, I think it's been very positive. Right now finally we have a president that talks about mining. it get makes prime ministers talk about mining and all of a sudden you know that brings mining into the into the you know into the living room really hasn't been there for a long time. So I think it's very positive just from an overall tone. Uh and then specifically we're seeing US government take direct stakes in companies and unleash uh their DoD and DOE subsidiaries to to do more. So within our space we're definitely talking with them and they're being very supportive and uh we're we're looking at a couple projects with them right now. So, so I think it's super smart with them. Sorry, who's them? Uh, Department of Defense and Department of Energy. So, uh, yeah. Well, you know, with what you can reveal the public, what does that conversation look like? What are they what are they looking for? What they're looking for is they they're looking for in one case for us for for nickel powder. Uh, we have a um a um a joint venture with a company called CVMR, right? Actually, they're actually it's not a I wouldn't call it joint venture. That was what it'll become. They're doing a feasibility study right now that they're paying for to build a nickel powder plant uh you know for our nickel concentrate that would come out of our uh deposit in in Quebec. Uh it's part of that process. We were looking at building a nickel powder facility in um in Texas and and Kansas City. Uh so that's that conversation. It's early days. I mean when we were we used to be called power nickel and then when we made the the great you know copper precious metals discovery that sort of made us the the top performing mining stock last year in Canada we sort of changed the name of power metallic to better reflect what the overall business is but while we were in the nickel phase we made this drink this agreement with CV Mar uh on the making nickel into nickel powder. So just to give you an example nickel is maybe call it $16,000 a ton. Nickel powders get $40 to $60,000 a ton. So you want to be if you're in the nickel business, you want to be in the nickel powder business. So So we're, you know, that's another like I'd call it offshoot. Our core business is, you know, advancing this orthonomagmatic discovery and and and building that out. But, you know, one of the side businesses we have is we we have uh made big inroads on the nickel powder business and we'll see where that evolves. Just on that note, and we'll come back to the markets. Uh your your company is currently trading at $143. Uh about a year and a half ago, not even it was at 20 cents. what happened in the last year. So last year at this conference we were at 55 cents. A year before that we were at 20. So uh we basically have executed on the drill bet. You know at the end of the day how you create value in mining is finding more metals in the ground that are actually commercially viable. So we found I think a lot and we think it's early days. Uh we we basically tripled last year. uh we think that's you know highly likely we could do the same thing this year all on the basis of executing advancing more minerals in the ground by you know publishing assays showing that there's more discoveries uh that have you know adding to our currently already known I think when we raised that money last February and it's still a very tough mining market we got it because I think the the investors and these were like the leading mining investors in the world felt that we were cheap relative to our peers and they felt they had we had a lot of asymmetric upside on our exploration so those are the two reasons Who are your major shareholders? Uh Robert Freeland uh and Rob Mchuan uh were uh big participants in the last two rounds. Gina Reinhardt. We have 15 billionaires in the deal. Uh I'm the biggest shareholder. I've been also the other than Robert Freeland, the second biggest chuck writer in the last two years. So I think you know management's got serious skin in the game which is obviously comforting for investors. So uh yeah those are the primary shareholders. What do they see in this project that uh other projects don't have? So uh we have what's known as an orthomagmatic uh nickel copper PGE discovery. So there's been 20 of them in the history of the world. All previous 20 have become major mines producing you know with a million tons of contained metals in some cases more than 10 million tons. So u analysts say today we're probably between 300 to 500,000 contained tons in the in the ground. U you know are we going to get to the million tons? Are we going to get more? It looks very likely. There's a there's an interesting chart in our deck that you can go to on our site powertallic.com and there's a triangle there where we sort of uh look at these discoveries are all they're either more nickely more coppery or more noble metals BGES plus gold silver. So we're sort of in the middle and uh interesting observation is that for every ton of copper sulfide you find on these deposits you'll find on average five tons of nickel sulfide. So right now we're about 1 and a half tons of copper to one nickel soon to be two copper to one nickel. That's because we're finding while we're finding a lot more copper, we're eventually going to find a lot more nickel. So, this thing's going to get big. So, I think people sort of thought, hey, we're buying it cheap and they got all this expiration upside. Let's give them the money to find it. So, now that's what we're doing. A lot of miners I've spoken to um are frustrated with permitting times in Canada. If you're operating in Canada, how are you mitigating these issues? Yeah, so we've been lucky. Permitting has been very swift for for us. So, we've been drilling and getting permits back within weeks. No issues there at all. uh you know going forward if you if you were to pick one jurisdiction in Canada to be located in it would be Quebec and it would be northern Quebec. So uh we feel like you know it's very feas why why oh oh just because they're very promining okay and they're very experienced so they they it's been built to you know help miners out. They've got a lot of infrastructure and programs to do that. One of the big pluses we've got is uh you know we drive off of Route North right to our site right to the rig. We're 8 km outside the town of Alamaska. It's got an airport. It's got facilities for our crew. So, uh, the James Bay cre are literally probably the best First Nations in the country that, you know, to have as a as a as a partner in in the project because they're very pro business, very promining. So, we've got a lot of good things going for us in that respect. So, I know there's problems in other areas of the country, but thanks God for us, we're not in Quebec. Well, I want to talk about the future of the industry. So, in the last 10-15 years, one of the biggest stories, if not the biggest story behind copper demand was the rise of China. uh with the China construction boom we've saw unprecedented unprecedented demand for copper and the base metals what does the next 20 years look like so I think you know that was an interesting story and it's still continuing on you know I think India is sort of carrying on in that footsteps as well but I think the primary driver for copper uh will be electrification right so generally speaking I mean 5 years ago if we had this conversation we would not be talking about AI and now it's going to be 15% of the world's powered matt maybe So you know you're you're starting a three- mile island to basically provide for AI energy everywhere needs a lot more copper. So you know copper is generally considered doctor economy. So that hey if there's a recession coming copper should go down this time around the energy demands are going to be so you know I think exaggerated for the needs to build distribution to build infrastructure that copper is the backbone of and you know copper supply is going to get tight prices are going to go north. Where does platinum fit in that future? Platinum is uh well one of the primary sources or uses of platinum rather isn't catalytic converters. The electrification of the world potentially means more EVs and less need for catalytic converters. Yeah. So I mean I I think um electrification means we need to use all forms of energy. I don't I don't personally believe that the oil and gas is doomed. I think oil and gas is having a renaissance because we recognize now we need this energy. And so I think you know you know the the concept of you know there was going to be 50% EVs on the road by 2035. I think people realize that's not happening. So if you look at the supply and demand curve for platinum and platium last 3 years bigger demand than supply they've been basically what's kept the prices low is the Russians have been sort of flooding the market to finance the war right but you know if you see that coming to any sort of conclusion plus their supplies are dwindling. I mean, you already saw this year the PGEs had a pretty good run. And remember, historically, platinum platium used to be priced at or around gold. So, it's like it's it's the most underrated commodity out there. Several analysts are calling it for it to be a really breakout performer. And for us, it's it's effectively a freebie. We got the second best PG discovery in the planet, and it's in our copper discovery. So, it's it's a cool sort of situation. What happened to palladium this year? Why did it go up 50% in a couple of months? just demand. So, so the the the bottom line it's a it's a demand driven thing. They they started to shut some of the mines down in South Africa and uh I guess some of the supply probably stopped oozing out of Russia and then pricing uh responded. What demand from what exactly? Oh, so again generally speaking catalytic converters are are the for both platinum and platium are the big driver. uh hydrogen now is also going to be there but generally speaking I would say there's a certain a jewelry aspect and a sort of a precious metal aspect to buying that and I think there were there's I think people are maybe priced out at gold thinking hey gold's a bit toppy or or heavy and maybe I should maybe I should buy some precious metals but maybe I should buy the the cheaper one on the deck. So I I think there's been a bit of that uh you know so I think those are the the fundamentals. Let's just paint a picture for the generalist audience watching here. How reliant is the US, the world's largest market, on foreign suppliers for critical minerals? The US wants to continue to be the leader in technology electrification. Can they do that on their own? you know, uh, I gave a speech at the Critical Mineral Institute called Fortress America, and I believe that's what's taking place, and I think ultimately Mexico and Canada will be in that fortress, uh, as pillars, and they need, uh, Mexican and Canadian supply of critical minerals for sure. They need Africa. I mean, China's done an amazing job of getting in front of everyone with the Belt and Road initiative, and they've done, you know, you got to give them credit. You know, they they've got most of the processing capabilities in critical minerals. America's got to play catch-up. And the one thing with America, when they get focused on something, they turn it on big time. So, you're seeing that now. They're they're going to they're using executive orders to get stuff done. They're they're going to move fast. And and it's it's interesting to see how quick they move. So, I think that's very bullish for us miners, and I think it's it's bullish for America. Uh well, at the same time, they're tariffing Canada and Mexico and kind of driving this rift between Yeah. I mean, not in mining, right? I mean, in mining, it's not the same. Um, you know, it was interesting. I I was literally uh at uh in Washington DC on freedom day when uh Secretary Bent it started with the tariffs and I I was in april. Yeah. I was in a conference where he was speaking with the head of uh the Carlile group and it was pretty interesting. You know the Carile group guy went at him pretty hard and and he basically said look it it from his perspective he's saying look America had to try something new. You know the old way was not working. We're going farther and farther behind. So he says will this work? We think it will. We're pretty confident it's going to work, but we felt we had to try it. And you know, I I think people were skeptical um and maybe some marine, but it's interesting so far to see how it's unfolded. So, I don't know. Jury's out. You know, I they uh I think they they're doing a lot of the right things. I mean, listen, Canada need a wakeup call. Uh I hope the new government responds. Uh we need to get uh our act together. I mean, do you know in Canada last year, we only raised $20 billion. We used to raise $100 billion all the time. Our capital markets are in disarray because we allow naked shorting and all sorts of spoofing and all sorts of malfeence. What needs to happen for policy changes? Uh you basically have to uh change the capital markets. You got to basically you got the number one thing you got to do is you got to stop the short market exempt. That's what enables market makers and hedge funds to basically flood the market with phantom shares. They don't really exist, but they can suppress the market with that. They got to stop that. And it's it's crazy, but that's uh the market we're in. But specifically, what does the government need to do in Canada to make it more mining friendly? So, you know what what's interesting and I was just I was up meeting with the PMO maybe in Ottawa about four weeks ago and having this type of conversation with them. They've got a lot of good programs. Honestly, the what they have to do uh permitting wise, they're going to need to streamline. So, you know, having two lines of permitting, fed and pro province makes no sense. Just have one. That would be one big thing. Second thing is fix the capital markets because the the the governments can only do so much. The capital markets have to reward good projects by bidding them up, making them easier to get access to capital and punish bad projects just like it normal capitalism should work. Right now that's not happening and that that's a problem and that's why our capital markets have been so down. Now you know this, you know, commodity boom ordinarily these stocks would be much higher, much much higher and uh you know it's it's because you know the generous investor has stayed out because he's getting punished. One concern an investor might have and maybe you can address this is if the government takes stakes in critical minerals companies. Wouldn't that make running the company a little less efficient? Wouldn't management have less of an incentive to optimize? I'm not a big advocate for government taking direct stakes in companies. Yeah, I'm a big market for advocate for the free market. So, let's sort the free markets out. I just said as an example, America recognized in a couple instances for the for the uh I think the rare earth magnets as an example probably the most relevant case in lithium where they felt they had to make a move to get some supply. So, they made that. Do I see them investing in in copper companies like uh or you know companies like power and metallic? No, I don't see that. But do I see them uh providing through the DoD or the DOE offtake agreements that are at at higher than market prices for offtake in order to encourage investment? Yeah, that's that's much more constructive. That's what's going to happen. What's the future of your company going to look like in 5 years? So, I I think we'll have a mine running at NISK and I think it'll be one of the great minds in the in the world in terms of uh being able to probably pay itself off in a year and uh I think it's going to run for a long long time. I think uh the NISK mine will be the first of many up there. We believe we found a district. This is not just going to be a one mine thing. Sbury has 33 mines. We think this new district that we found uh you know is going to have a lot of mines. We'll think we'll have some of those. Will we be the operator? Probably not. We probably but I think we might well be the joint venture partner. We are really good at exploration. We think we could bring in a partner to maybe build it. I mean, if we get some crazy asymmetric offer to take us out that that pays us for what this thing is worth in production, we'll look at that because we're investors. We don't look for investors. But I think there's a pathway for us becoming a very reasonable and responsible cash flowing producer and explorer that continues to find great projects the world over. Yeah. Well, tell us about your background. Do you have experience uh as an operator? No. No. No. So, that's why we we would definitely be we recognize what we what we can do well and what we don't do well. So that's why I say that you know in conferences like this you meet a lot of operators that come to us and say hey we like what you're doing you know think about us when you're when you're you know you're moving forward and we're at the stage where obviously we're we got I don't know 40 plus million in the bank uh so we're why do you need a as a strategy start I'll let you go ahead you know so you know what at some point when we you over the next sort of 18 months with in the midst of this 100,000 meter program we're going to start to define the how big this thing And then it'll determine, okay, how big it is and how rich it is. Will determine what size of plant you should optimally build. And that sort of determines, you know, what sort of capex you're going to have. And that determines who should your partners be. You know, if if you're building a monster pfrey and chubby for $5 billion, there's only a few companies that can fit that bill. Okay? But if you're building a a a situation in Canada for $500 million, there's a lot more. If you were to consider the alternative, I don't know if this is an alternative, but let's say you don't need a partner with anybody, no JVs needed, you just raise money, hire management that does have experience as an operator. Would that be an option? It's an option, you know, and and I and that's we expect to hire people like that even to guide us on the process of whether billing ourselves, partnering with somebody else or going alone. So, we definitely that's in our in our plan is to hire some operating people, you know, for that very reason. Uh but you know I I would say that you know that you know I mean look at Robert Freeland. Nobody saw him being a builder. Turns out he's the best builder in the planet. Right. So could it happen for us? I guess it could. So I've talked to some uh juniors where they've assessed that the cost to build out a mine is greater than the market cap currently. So in that situation what would you do? Well I mean the good news for us is that because it's critical minerals we get half of it would be basically funded by the provinces and the federal government. Okay. So you got that going for you. You do a feasibility study, this thing will probably pay out in I'm guessing a year or 18 months, it's going to be super high IRRa because it's so lucrative. So when you have a you such a a massive amount of cash flow funding is going to be as long as people can believe in the builder and and operator, then you can raise that capital. So it's not going to be a case where we can't raise the dough. Yeah. And it's it going back it's not going to be a marginal project. Going back to your share per performance, 20 cents a share two years ago to 143. And not the m the majority of your deposits is not gold, right? It's that's only about 25% or so. Even less. Even less%. And so most of that value is driven from what you've been doing on the ground, not from the prices of the metals themselves because copper doesn't go up 300%. No. No. So yeah. Um yeah, walk us through that process. Yeah. So, so I mean basically uh you know we we started off as a as a nickel deposit had 3.1 million tons. Yeah. And then in looking for more nickel we stepped out 5 a half km away to what we thought was another nice nickel target. Drilled it and found this massive copper precious metal zone. So that was God's luck. You know we drilled it for the right reasons but we had no idea that was there. And then when we found it we realized, holy cow, we've got this a poly metallic. And we and then we sort of looked and said, "Hey, we don't really have the expertise on a polytallic discovery. who does and we source this guy his name is Dr. Steve Barersford. He used to be chief geo at first quantum and then he was chief geo at first at MMG and then he was chief scientific officer at IGO. So three successive multi-billion dollar success stories. I reached out to him. He became an adviser came over to the site and started giving us some phenomenal input and we realized well this guy he's not the top poly metallic guy in the world he's in that conversation and he knows a hell of a lot more than we do. So we said hey man we got to have you and we made a deal. So he's now on our board and he's our I would say our thought leader on the exploration side and then we paired him. He's a western mining training guy. So we use Geo Vector which is one of Canada's top two or three geological consulting firms. Tons of great you know geos and geoysicists and they have the ability to you know run massive drill campaigns effectively and and deploy a property. So their their senior guy Joe Campbell he's our VP of exploration. He's also a western mining train guy. So we got these two western mining train guys. Western mining is an iconic like an incode type company. They became part of BHP but they're considered one of the great thought leaders in mining. They run things the right way. So these guys are now running the programs for us and we're we've drilled like very successfully. We've used top tier technology. We spent a lot of money on tech and we've executed with a drill bit. Our our key learning thing has been from Steve is that with this uh uh type of deposit, you can use a technique called borehole em which is an EM electromagnetic sort of pulse that you can send down the drill hole and it gives you like a radius of 150 m to where the sulfides where the minerals are around. So we've used that very successfully. It's not always successful, but in some deposits it is. It's been super successful for us. So that's what led to our great success with drill bit. And that great success with the drill bit is what drove the stock price. Did you just close financing recently? In February of last year, we raised $50 million. Okay. And uh what have you done so far with that cash? We've uh started a 100,000 meter drill program. We're about 20,000 mters into it. We'll report on that next week. Uh the first first phase uh assays were slow cuz everyone's been drilling like crazy and they're jammed, but uh we'll get some out next week. And then the other thing we did is we uh more than tripled our land package in the area cuz our our vision was we don't think this is going to be a onesie. We think there's going to be multiple mines here, so we need much more land. So, we made a deal and acquired uh more than tripled our land package immediately around us. And uh so we're super bullish on that. We're exploring on that right now. And we got four rigs turning. Uh soon to have five, five fifth is there today. Uh we'll have the sixth uh after mid-occtober. So, it's a busy time for us with uh precious metals prices at all-time highs. I'm talking about gold specifically right now and sentiment pretty good compared to couple years ago. as you know, was kind of quiet a couple years ago. I'd imagine explorers are pounding the table asking for money right now. Is that what's happening? I would think so. I mean, uh, we're obviously not in that mode, so I I don't really know, but I I I know from talking to a few guys that their deals are getting done. Uh, I think the, you know, good projects are definitely getting funded. I don't think it's really broken down there still, I still see. Would you, would you, would you issue equity right now at $143? No, I would not. You know, we we got 40 million in the bank. We got that money to execute on our strategy. We think we should we should be double triple our priced from where we're at based upon our peers. So we got to get there first. All right. Great. Well, so what's uh what's the next milestone for you? I think the next milestone well obviously we got the assays out. So we got to keep on growing the resource. So you know we what we do is we post all of our drill callers asmiss and assays so people can model this deposits themselves. This is sort of like what Great Bear did, what FO did. So that when deposits are growing really quick, you don't want to pigeon hole yourself with a 43101. you want to let the thing grow. So what we are doing is we are doing a full metallurgical study which will show how we'll basically be able to make them payable. Uh sometimes with polytallics that's a concern. It's not a concern with us. We just issued a preliminary uh sort of finding on that to show that we think 93 or 94% of the uh of the goodies the the minerals will report to the copper concentrate which is what you want to hear. But we'll get that uh metallurgical study done and out uh probably early Q1 of of next year and then they can plug that into their model. So what will happen is we'll continue to advance the drills. Uh I would say uh this summer we didn't drill our A targets because we were trying to negotiate on the land that was closed. Now that we've got all the land, we're drilling our A targets. So I think that we're super stoked about even what we had done. We're we're happy with uh but we're super stoked about what's coming. So, we think we're sitting on, you know, on the the start of a really big run for us. So, we're super excited. We don't have to raise capital. Lots of news in a macro environment that's getting healthier. Good times. Okay. Uh, one final question. What would need to happen in the world geopolitically and or perhaps policy wise or market wise that would make you dramatically change your strategy or timeline? I mean, uh, you know, you're looking at some sort of allout war scenario, I guess. I mean, at the end of the day, the the materials that we're finding would be needed in almost any circumstance. So, and we've got the capital to do that. We've been given a mandate to do that by our shareholders. I really can't think of anything that would change the strategy. Realistically, how long would it take to put this asset into production? Four to five years. Okay. Wow. Well, yeah. the the the one notable thing about the uh polyallics discoveries like the the previous 20 is they get put in production very quickly. The reason why the IRS are so high, you don't have to derisk as much if you're if you're building a $3 billion facility and you got a 32% IR. Well, there's a lot of risk there. You may be might sure that that everything's in there. But when you're doing something that's got like a 100% IR or something in that order of magnitude, not so much risk. Some some companies face a going back to the problem earlier with dilution, right? They they have to raise a lot of money to be able to finance a transition from explor exploration to production. Um you know what's your strategy for mitigating that risk? Yeah, I think our view is is that you always want to keep ahead of the uh the capital requirement, right? So last year when we raised the the uh um $50 million, we had like 10 or 12 million in the bank or something like that. So we already, you know, we didn't have to raise it at that moment. but we raised it because it was opportunistic to do it at the time. So, I think you always have to be opportunistic. So, I think, you know, we think we've got a lot of great news that should result into a a movement for a stock. We're going to list in New York shortly in October. That's going to be a major movement for us to get listed on the major exchange. The Americans are are really starting to get into money now. We've had some positive experiences there. So, we think there's going to be a rerating on the thing. And then once it rerates, you know, I think you'd be opportunistic and you and you probably, you know, you know, somewhere out there, uh, you you'd hit the bid again and raise capital. So, you always keep in front of it. Have you done a feasibility study? How much would it cost roughly to put this thing into production? Haven't done a feasibility study that that will be some we'll put out we'll certainly put a resource out end of next year and maybe a PEA. Sure. Um, we'd expect something in the neighborhood of $500 million. Sure. Again, we think half of that's going to get funded by the the government. So, 250 is not a big number. I mean, you know, it's a big number, but not crazy. Not like billions. Just on that note, when it gets funded by the government, what do they usually ask for in return? Nothing. It's just in the tax code. So, basically, it's it's a it's a tax credit that you get equity stake. They don't take royalties. No, no. They they get their ultimately they're getting these projects built, which is in their strategic initiative, right? They know they're getting a lot of employment. There's royalties they get, there's taxes they get. So, that's that's their payback. It's just a it's a public policy like they have in many other sectors. Great. All right. We'll put the link down below. So, uh, make sure to follow Par Metallic there. Thank you very much, Terrence. Appreciate your time. Thanks, David. Cheers, man. Bye. Thank you for watching. Don't forget to like and subscribe and continue our coverage at, uh, the Beaver Creek Conference.
Recession-Proof Assets: Which 'Breakout Performer' Rallies Next? | Terrence Lynch
Summary
Transcript
[Applause] [Music] Terrence Lynch, CEO of Power Metallic, joins us today. We're joined uh by a very esteemed CEO of this very interesting company. We're going to be talking about the outlook for precious metals, base metals, and the future of the demand for some of the most critical materials in our society. We're at the Beaver Creek Precious Metal Summit here in Colorado. Good to see you in beautiful Colorado. Thank you for being here. Great to be here, David. Thanks for having us. This conference is buzzing with activity. Sentiment is high. Uh a lot of optimism but also a little bit of skepticism for how much further this bull rally we've seen the precious metals and to a certain extent the base metals complex can run. So I'll just ask you to start the conversation. How far along in this bull cycle are we right now? I think it's still early days. You know uh I don't think a generalist investor has invested yet. So uh until that happens you really won't see the full deployment in in the in the metals sector still mostly people are in tech not in like if you look at the divergence between tech stocks and and commodity stocks it's never been higher so it's still very very early days while we've had a good move here in gold in particular and a little bit in silver uh still very very early days in my books. You say the generalist investor for the most part hasn't come into the space yet. So who's been driving up the prices this year? uh you know the the mining funds, you know, and the mining investors. So, there was enough of those to recognize, hey, things are turning. And then you're starting to see the generalist investors. I was in New York a couple weeks ago for a non-deal road show and uh saw 10 generalist investors. Hadn't seen a mining guy in like several years. So, and and after the thing, we weren't raising money, but after the after the meetings, the broker that brought us around and said, "Hey, they all want to invest and say, well, they better get in the market because we're not doing any issue right now." But it was good to see them come out and I think that's just the start and um that's really the reason to be optimistic. It's still early days and uh there's still great values out there in the sector I think. How is the conversation between yourself and some investors changed after the Trump administration took place. We know that there's a priority to uh sec to secure uh the critical minerals supply chain domestically versus depending on China which is now the global leader for lithium production, cobalt production, copper produ well not copper production but copper refining and so the US wants to be less reliant on the east. How has that shifted the conversation for you? Yeah, I think it's been very positive. Right now finally we have a president that talks about mining. it get makes prime ministers talk about mining and all of a sudden you know that brings mining into the into the you know into the living room really hasn't been there for a long time. So I think it's very positive just from an overall tone. Uh and then specifically we're seeing US government take direct stakes in companies and unleash uh their DoD and DOE subsidiaries to to do more. So within our space we're definitely talking with them and they're being very supportive and uh we're we're looking at a couple projects with them right now. So, so I think it's super smart with them. Sorry, who's them? Uh, Department of Defense and Department of Energy. So, uh, yeah. Well, you know, with what you can reveal the public, what does that conversation look like? What are they what are they looking for? What they're looking for is they they're looking for in one case for us for for nickel powder. Uh, we have a um a um a joint venture with a company called CVMR, right? Actually, they're actually it's not a I wouldn't call it joint venture. That was what it'll become. They're doing a feasibility study right now that they're paying for to build a nickel powder plant uh you know for our nickel concentrate that would come out of our uh deposit in in Quebec. Uh it's part of that process. We were looking at building a nickel powder facility in um in Texas and and Kansas City. Uh so that's that conversation. It's early days. I mean when we were we used to be called power nickel and then when we made the the great you know copper precious metals discovery that sort of made us the the top performing mining stock last year in Canada we sort of changed the name of power metallic to better reflect what the overall business is but while we were in the nickel phase we made this drink this agreement with CV Mar uh on the making nickel into nickel powder. So just to give you an example nickel is maybe call it $16,000 a ton. Nickel powders get $40 to $60,000 a ton. So you want to be if you're in the nickel business, you want to be in the nickel powder business. So So we're, you know, that's another like I'd call it offshoot. Our core business is, you know, advancing this orthonomagmatic discovery and and and building that out. But, you know, one of the side businesses we have is we we have uh made big inroads on the nickel powder business and we'll see where that evolves. Just on that note, and we'll come back to the markets. Uh your your company is currently trading at $143. Uh about a year and a half ago, not even it was at 20 cents. what happened in the last year. So last year at this conference we were at 55 cents. A year before that we were at 20. So uh we basically have executed on the drill bet. You know at the end of the day how you create value in mining is finding more metals in the ground that are actually commercially viable. So we found I think a lot and we think it's early days. Uh we we basically tripled last year. uh we think that's you know highly likely we could do the same thing this year all on the basis of executing advancing more minerals in the ground by you know publishing assays showing that there's more discoveries uh that have you know adding to our currently already known I think when we raised that money last February and it's still a very tough mining market we got it because I think the the investors and these were like the leading mining investors in the world felt that we were cheap relative to our peers and they felt they had we had a lot of asymmetric upside on our exploration so those are the two reasons Who are your major shareholders? Uh Robert Freeland uh and Rob Mchuan uh were uh big participants in the last two rounds. Gina Reinhardt. We have 15 billionaires in the deal. Uh I'm the biggest shareholder. I've been also the other than Robert Freeland, the second biggest chuck writer in the last two years. So I think you know management's got serious skin in the game which is obviously comforting for investors. So uh yeah those are the primary shareholders. What do they see in this project that uh other projects don't have? So uh we have what's known as an orthomagmatic uh nickel copper PGE discovery. So there's been 20 of them in the history of the world. All previous 20 have become major mines producing you know with a million tons of contained metals in some cases more than 10 million tons. So u analysts say today we're probably between 300 to 500,000 contained tons in the in the ground. U you know are we going to get to the million tons? Are we going to get more? It looks very likely. There's a there's an interesting chart in our deck that you can go to on our site powertallic.com and there's a triangle there where we sort of uh look at these discoveries are all they're either more nickely more coppery or more noble metals BGES plus gold silver. So we're sort of in the middle and uh interesting observation is that for every ton of copper sulfide you find on these deposits you'll find on average five tons of nickel sulfide. So right now we're about 1 and a half tons of copper to one nickel soon to be two copper to one nickel. That's because we're finding while we're finding a lot more copper, we're eventually going to find a lot more nickel. So, this thing's going to get big. So, I think people sort of thought, hey, we're buying it cheap and they got all this expiration upside. Let's give them the money to find it. So, now that's what we're doing. A lot of miners I've spoken to um are frustrated with permitting times in Canada. If you're operating in Canada, how are you mitigating these issues? Yeah, so we've been lucky. Permitting has been very swift for for us. So, we've been drilling and getting permits back within weeks. No issues there at all. uh you know going forward if you if you were to pick one jurisdiction in Canada to be located in it would be Quebec and it would be northern Quebec. So uh we feel like you know it's very feas why why oh oh just because they're very promining okay and they're very experienced so they they it's been built to you know help miners out. They've got a lot of infrastructure and programs to do that. One of the big pluses we've got is uh you know we drive off of Route North right to our site right to the rig. We're 8 km outside the town of Alamaska. It's got an airport. It's got facilities for our crew. So, uh, the James Bay cre are literally probably the best First Nations in the country that, you know, to have as a as a as a partner in in the project because they're very pro business, very promining. So, we've got a lot of good things going for us in that respect. So, I know there's problems in other areas of the country, but thanks God for us, we're not in Quebec. Well, I want to talk about the future of the industry. So, in the last 10-15 years, one of the biggest stories, if not the biggest story behind copper demand was the rise of China. uh with the China construction boom we've saw unprecedented unprecedented demand for copper and the base metals what does the next 20 years look like so I think you know that was an interesting story and it's still continuing on you know I think India is sort of carrying on in that footsteps as well but I think the primary driver for copper uh will be electrification right so generally speaking I mean 5 years ago if we had this conversation we would not be talking about AI and now it's going to be 15% of the world's powered matt maybe So you know you're you're starting a three- mile island to basically provide for AI energy everywhere needs a lot more copper. So you know copper is generally considered doctor economy. So that hey if there's a recession coming copper should go down this time around the energy demands are going to be so you know I think exaggerated for the needs to build distribution to build infrastructure that copper is the backbone of and you know copper supply is going to get tight prices are going to go north. Where does platinum fit in that future? Platinum is uh well one of the primary sources or uses of platinum rather isn't catalytic converters. The electrification of the world potentially means more EVs and less need for catalytic converters. Yeah. So I mean I I think um electrification means we need to use all forms of energy. I don't I don't personally believe that the oil and gas is doomed. I think oil and gas is having a renaissance because we recognize now we need this energy. And so I think you know you know the the concept of you know there was going to be 50% EVs on the road by 2035. I think people realize that's not happening. So if you look at the supply and demand curve for platinum and platium last 3 years bigger demand than supply they've been basically what's kept the prices low is the Russians have been sort of flooding the market to finance the war right but you know if you see that coming to any sort of conclusion plus their supplies are dwindling. I mean, you already saw this year the PGEs had a pretty good run. And remember, historically, platinum platium used to be priced at or around gold. So, it's like it's it's the most underrated commodity out there. Several analysts are calling it for it to be a really breakout performer. And for us, it's it's effectively a freebie. We got the second best PG discovery in the planet, and it's in our copper discovery. So, it's it's a cool sort of situation. What happened to palladium this year? Why did it go up 50% in a couple of months? just demand. So, so the the the bottom line it's a it's a demand driven thing. They they started to shut some of the mines down in South Africa and uh I guess some of the supply probably stopped oozing out of Russia and then pricing uh responded. What demand from what exactly? Oh, so again generally speaking catalytic converters are are the for both platinum and platium are the big driver. uh hydrogen now is also going to be there but generally speaking I would say there's a certain a jewelry aspect and a sort of a precious metal aspect to buying that and I think there were there's I think people are maybe priced out at gold thinking hey gold's a bit toppy or or heavy and maybe I should maybe I should buy some precious metals but maybe I should buy the the cheaper one on the deck. So I I think there's been a bit of that uh you know so I think those are the the fundamentals. Let's just paint a picture for the generalist audience watching here. How reliant is the US, the world's largest market, on foreign suppliers for critical minerals? The US wants to continue to be the leader in technology electrification. Can they do that on their own? you know, uh, I gave a speech at the Critical Mineral Institute called Fortress America, and I believe that's what's taking place, and I think ultimately Mexico and Canada will be in that fortress, uh, as pillars, and they need, uh, Mexican and Canadian supply of critical minerals for sure. They need Africa. I mean, China's done an amazing job of getting in front of everyone with the Belt and Road initiative, and they've done, you know, you got to give them credit. You know, they they've got most of the processing capabilities in critical minerals. America's got to play catch-up. And the one thing with America, when they get focused on something, they turn it on big time. So, you're seeing that now. They're they're going to they're using executive orders to get stuff done. They're they're going to move fast. And and it's it's interesting to see how quick they move. So, I think that's very bullish for us miners, and I think it's it's bullish for America. Uh well, at the same time, they're tariffing Canada and Mexico and kind of driving this rift between Yeah. I mean, not in mining, right? I mean, in mining, it's not the same. Um, you know, it was interesting. I I was literally uh at uh in Washington DC on freedom day when uh Secretary Bent it started with the tariffs and I I was in april. Yeah. I was in a conference where he was speaking with the head of uh the Carlile group and it was pretty interesting. You know the Carile group guy went at him pretty hard and and he basically said look it it from his perspective he's saying look America had to try something new. You know the old way was not working. We're going farther and farther behind. So he says will this work? We think it will. We're pretty confident it's going to work, but we felt we had to try it. And you know, I I think people were skeptical um and maybe some marine, but it's interesting so far to see how it's unfolded. So, I don't know. Jury's out. You know, I they uh I think they they're doing a lot of the right things. I mean, listen, Canada need a wakeup call. Uh I hope the new government responds. Uh we need to get uh our act together. I mean, do you know in Canada last year, we only raised $20 billion. We used to raise $100 billion all the time. Our capital markets are in disarray because we allow naked shorting and all sorts of spoofing and all sorts of malfeence. What needs to happen for policy changes? Uh you basically have to uh change the capital markets. You got to basically you got the number one thing you got to do is you got to stop the short market exempt. That's what enables market makers and hedge funds to basically flood the market with phantom shares. They don't really exist, but they can suppress the market with that. They got to stop that. And it's it's crazy, but that's uh the market we're in. But specifically, what does the government need to do in Canada to make it more mining friendly? So, you know what what's interesting and I was just I was up meeting with the PMO maybe in Ottawa about four weeks ago and having this type of conversation with them. They've got a lot of good programs. Honestly, the what they have to do uh permitting wise, they're going to need to streamline. So, you know, having two lines of permitting, fed and pro province makes no sense. Just have one. That would be one big thing. Second thing is fix the capital markets because the the the governments can only do so much. The capital markets have to reward good projects by bidding them up, making them easier to get access to capital and punish bad projects just like it normal capitalism should work. Right now that's not happening and that that's a problem and that's why our capital markets have been so down. Now you know this, you know, commodity boom ordinarily these stocks would be much higher, much much higher and uh you know it's it's because you know the generous investor has stayed out because he's getting punished. One concern an investor might have and maybe you can address this is if the government takes stakes in critical minerals companies. Wouldn't that make running the company a little less efficient? Wouldn't management have less of an incentive to optimize? I'm not a big advocate for government taking direct stakes in companies. Yeah, I'm a big market for advocate for the free market. So, let's sort the free markets out. I just said as an example, America recognized in a couple instances for the for the uh I think the rare earth magnets as an example probably the most relevant case in lithium where they felt they had to make a move to get some supply. So, they made that. Do I see them investing in in copper companies like uh or you know companies like power and metallic? No, I don't see that. But do I see them uh providing through the DoD or the DOE offtake agreements that are at at higher than market prices for offtake in order to encourage investment? Yeah, that's that's much more constructive. That's what's going to happen. What's the future of your company going to look like in 5 years? So, I I think we'll have a mine running at NISK and I think it'll be one of the great minds in the in the world in terms of uh being able to probably pay itself off in a year and uh I think it's going to run for a long long time. I think uh the NISK mine will be the first of many up there. We believe we found a district. This is not just going to be a one mine thing. Sbury has 33 mines. We think this new district that we found uh you know is going to have a lot of mines. We'll think we'll have some of those. Will we be the operator? Probably not. We probably but I think we might well be the joint venture partner. We are really good at exploration. We think we could bring in a partner to maybe build it. I mean, if we get some crazy asymmetric offer to take us out that that pays us for what this thing is worth in production, we'll look at that because we're investors. We don't look for investors. But I think there's a pathway for us becoming a very reasonable and responsible cash flowing producer and explorer that continues to find great projects the world over. Yeah. Well, tell us about your background. Do you have experience uh as an operator? No. No. No. So, that's why we we would definitely be we recognize what we what we can do well and what we don't do well. So that's why I say that you know in conferences like this you meet a lot of operators that come to us and say hey we like what you're doing you know think about us when you're when you're you know you're moving forward and we're at the stage where obviously we're we got I don't know 40 plus million in the bank uh so we're why do you need a as a strategy start I'll let you go ahead you know so you know what at some point when we you over the next sort of 18 months with in the midst of this 100,000 meter program we're going to start to define the how big this thing And then it'll determine, okay, how big it is and how rich it is. Will determine what size of plant you should optimally build. And that sort of determines, you know, what sort of capex you're going to have. And that determines who should your partners be. You know, if if you're building a monster pfrey and chubby for $5 billion, there's only a few companies that can fit that bill. Okay? But if you're building a a a situation in Canada for $500 million, there's a lot more. If you were to consider the alternative, I don't know if this is an alternative, but let's say you don't need a partner with anybody, no JVs needed, you just raise money, hire management that does have experience as an operator. Would that be an option? It's an option, you know, and and I and that's we expect to hire people like that even to guide us on the process of whether billing ourselves, partnering with somebody else or going alone. So, we definitely that's in our in our plan is to hire some operating people, you know, for that very reason. Uh but you know I I would say that you know that you know I mean look at Robert Freeland. Nobody saw him being a builder. Turns out he's the best builder in the planet. Right. So could it happen for us? I guess it could. So I've talked to some uh juniors where they've assessed that the cost to build out a mine is greater than the market cap currently. So in that situation what would you do? Well I mean the good news for us is that because it's critical minerals we get half of it would be basically funded by the provinces and the federal government. Okay. So you got that going for you. You do a feasibility study, this thing will probably pay out in I'm guessing a year or 18 months, it's going to be super high IRRa because it's so lucrative. So when you have a you such a a massive amount of cash flow funding is going to be as long as people can believe in the builder and and operator, then you can raise that capital. So it's not going to be a case where we can't raise the dough. Yeah. And it's it going back it's not going to be a marginal project. Going back to your share per performance, 20 cents a share two years ago to 143. And not the m the majority of your deposits is not gold, right? It's that's only about 25% or so. Even less. Even less%. And so most of that value is driven from what you've been doing on the ground, not from the prices of the metals themselves because copper doesn't go up 300%. No. No. So yeah. Um yeah, walk us through that process. Yeah. So, so I mean basically uh you know we we started off as a as a nickel deposit had 3.1 million tons. Yeah. And then in looking for more nickel we stepped out 5 a half km away to what we thought was another nice nickel target. Drilled it and found this massive copper precious metal zone. So that was God's luck. You know we drilled it for the right reasons but we had no idea that was there. And then when we found it we realized, holy cow, we've got this a poly metallic. And we and then we sort of looked and said, "Hey, we don't really have the expertise on a polytallic discovery. who does and we source this guy his name is Dr. Steve Barersford. He used to be chief geo at first quantum and then he was chief geo at first at MMG and then he was chief scientific officer at IGO. So three successive multi-billion dollar success stories. I reached out to him. He became an adviser came over to the site and started giving us some phenomenal input and we realized well this guy he's not the top poly metallic guy in the world he's in that conversation and he knows a hell of a lot more than we do. So we said hey man we got to have you and we made a deal. So he's now on our board and he's our I would say our thought leader on the exploration side and then we paired him. He's a western mining training guy. So we use Geo Vector which is one of Canada's top two or three geological consulting firms. Tons of great you know geos and geoysicists and they have the ability to you know run massive drill campaigns effectively and and deploy a property. So their their senior guy Joe Campbell he's our VP of exploration. He's also a western mining train guy. So we got these two western mining train guys. Western mining is an iconic like an incode type company. They became part of BHP but they're considered one of the great thought leaders in mining. They run things the right way. So these guys are now running the programs for us and we're we've drilled like very successfully. We've used top tier technology. We spent a lot of money on tech and we've executed with a drill bit. Our our key learning thing has been from Steve is that with this uh uh type of deposit, you can use a technique called borehole em which is an EM electromagnetic sort of pulse that you can send down the drill hole and it gives you like a radius of 150 m to where the sulfides where the minerals are around. So we've used that very successfully. It's not always successful, but in some deposits it is. It's been super successful for us. So that's what led to our great success with drill bit. And that great success with the drill bit is what drove the stock price. Did you just close financing recently? In February of last year, we raised $50 million. Okay. And uh what have you done so far with that cash? We've uh started a 100,000 meter drill program. We're about 20,000 mters into it. We'll report on that next week. Uh the first first phase uh assays were slow cuz everyone's been drilling like crazy and they're jammed, but uh we'll get some out next week. And then the other thing we did is we uh more than tripled our land package in the area cuz our our vision was we don't think this is going to be a onesie. We think there's going to be multiple mines here, so we need much more land. So, we made a deal and acquired uh more than tripled our land package immediately around us. And uh so we're super bullish on that. We're exploring on that right now. And we got four rigs turning. Uh soon to have five, five fifth is there today. Uh we'll have the sixth uh after mid-occtober. So, it's a busy time for us with uh precious metals prices at all-time highs. I'm talking about gold specifically right now and sentiment pretty good compared to couple years ago. as you know, was kind of quiet a couple years ago. I'd imagine explorers are pounding the table asking for money right now. Is that what's happening? I would think so. I mean, uh, we're obviously not in that mode, so I I don't really know, but I I I know from talking to a few guys that their deals are getting done. Uh, I think the, you know, good projects are definitely getting funded. I don't think it's really broken down there still, I still see. Would you, would you, would you issue equity right now at $143? No, I would not. You know, we we got 40 million in the bank. We got that money to execute on our strategy. We think we should we should be double triple our priced from where we're at based upon our peers. So we got to get there first. All right. Great. Well, so what's uh what's the next milestone for you? I think the next milestone well obviously we got the assays out. So we got to keep on growing the resource. So you know we what we do is we post all of our drill callers asmiss and assays so people can model this deposits themselves. This is sort of like what Great Bear did, what FO did. So that when deposits are growing really quick, you don't want to pigeon hole yourself with a 43101. you want to let the thing grow. So what we are doing is we are doing a full metallurgical study which will show how we'll basically be able to make them payable. Uh sometimes with polytallics that's a concern. It's not a concern with us. We just issued a preliminary uh sort of finding on that to show that we think 93 or 94% of the uh of the goodies the the minerals will report to the copper concentrate which is what you want to hear. But we'll get that uh metallurgical study done and out uh probably early Q1 of of next year and then they can plug that into their model. So what will happen is we'll continue to advance the drills. Uh I would say uh this summer we didn't drill our A targets because we were trying to negotiate on the land that was closed. Now that we've got all the land, we're drilling our A targets. So I think that we're super stoked about even what we had done. We're we're happy with uh but we're super stoked about what's coming. So, we think we're sitting on, you know, on the the start of a really big run for us. So, we're super excited. We don't have to raise capital. Lots of news in a macro environment that's getting healthier. Good times. Okay. Uh, one final question. What would need to happen in the world geopolitically and or perhaps policy wise or market wise that would make you dramatically change your strategy or timeline? I mean, uh, you know, you're looking at some sort of allout war scenario, I guess. I mean, at the end of the day, the the materials that we're finding would be needed in almost any circumstance. So, and we've got the capital to do that. We've been given a mandate to do that by our shareholders. I really can't think of anything that would change the strategy. Realistically, how long would it take to put this asset into production? Four to five years. Okay. Wow. Well, yeah. the the the one notable thing about the uh polyallics discoveries like the the previous 20 is they get put in production very quickly. The reason why the IRS are so high, you don't have to derisk as much if you're if you're building a $3 billion facility and you got a 32% IR. Well, there's a lot of risk there. You may be might sure that that everything's in there. But when you're doing something that's got like a 100% IR or something in that order of magnitude, not so much risk. Some some companies face a going back to the problem earlier with dilution, right? They they have to raise a lot of money to be able to finance a transition from explor exploration to production. Um you know what's your strategy for mitigating that risk? Yeah, I think our view is is that you always want to keep ahead of the uh the capital requirement, right? So last year when we raised the the uh um $50 million, we had like 10 or 12 million in the bank or something like that. So we already, you know, we didn't have to raise it at that moment. but we raised it because it was opportunistic to do it at the time. So, I think you always have to be opportunistic. So, I think, you know, we think we've got a lot of great news that should result into a a movement for a stock. We're going to list in New York shortly in October. That's going to be a major movement for us to get listed on the major exchange. The Americans are are really starting to get into money now. We've had some positive experiences there. So, we think there's going to be a rerating on the thing. And then once it rerates, you know, I think you'd be opportunistic and you and you probably, you know, you know, somewhere out there, uh, you you'd hit the bid again and raise capital. So, you always keep in front of it. Have you done a feasibility study? How much would it cost roughly to put this thing into production? Haven't done a feasibility study that that will be some we'll put out we'll certainly put a resource out end of next year and maybe a PEA. Sure. Um, we'd expect something in the neighborhood of $500 million. Sure. Again, we think half of that's going to get funded by the the government. So, 250 is not a big number. I mean, you know, it's a big number, but not crazy. Not like billions. Just on that note, when it gets funded by the government, what do they usually ask for in return? Nothing. It's just in the tax code. So, basically, it's it's a it's a tax credit that you get equity stake. They don't take royalties. No, no. They they get their ultimately they're getting these projects built, which is in their strategic initiative, right? They know they're getting a lot of employment. There's royalties they get, there's taxes they get. So, that's that's their payback. It's just a it's a public policy like they have in many other sectors. Great. All right. We'll put the link down below. So, uh, make sure to follow Par Metallic there. Thank you very much, Terrence. Appreciate your time. Thanks, David. Cheers, man. Bye. Thank you for watching. Don't forget to like and subscribe and continue our coverage at, uh, the Beaver Creek Conference.