The Biggest Risks & Challenges in Mining and How We Could Solve Them
Summary
Junior Mining: CEOs detailed execution challenges including funding cycles, dilution management, and disciplined drilling to add value without overextending capital.
Developer Discount: A pronounced valuation gap exists as developers trade around 0.22x NAV versus producers at 5-6x, creating an opportunity for investors.
Gold Developers: Multiple guests emphasized advancing assets from discovery through PEA/PFS, highlighting timelines, de-risking, and momentum as key value drivers.
Revival Gold (RVG): Positioned in the western US with ~6Moz gold and focus on talent, strategic industry engagement, and optimizing project economics amid shifting metal prices.
Snowline Gold (SGD): Advancing the Valley deposit with strong exploration plus PEA/PFS workstreams, prioritizing permitting, environmental baselines, and First Nations agreements.
US Mining: Favorable policy recognition for strategic metals and clear permitting pathways were cited as tailwinds, while responsible ESG practices remain essential.
Yukon Mining: Emphasis on early community engagement, local partnerships, and environmental work underscores social license as critical to advancing projects.
Risks and Catalysts: Underinvestment in exploration, regulatory timelines, and talent shortages are key risks, while strong gold prices and disciplined execution provide upside.
Transcript
The best junior mining CEOs know what's wrong with their companies. They know how much time it's going to take them to solve it. They know how much effort and money it's going to take them to solve or make progress um toward those challenges. And the very best ones among them also know how to properly communicate that with stakeholders and shareholders. And it is my job as a speculator in this sector to find out the ones who are actually going to try and make progress in in those challenges and dealing with those challenges versus the ones who are only going to give me empty promises. And we all know that there's plenty of those out there. And that's that's exactly the exercise that I'll go through in in this episode. I've uh essentially invited four junior mining CEOs uh all operating at different stages of the Lan curve and I'm hoping they're going to talk to me about what their main challenges are and how they plan on fixing them as well as talk about more broadly what are the main challenges for the mining sector as a whole. What's the thing that could hold us back from making more discoveries, building more mines over the next 10 years. Now, this is a bit of a special episode, too, because all the companies you're about to hear from have paid us for the production of this video. But we are not going to keep any of that money, as 100% of the of the proceeds will go toward the Young Mining Professionals Scholarship Fund. And hopefully the scholarship students will also listen and go on to try and solve some of these issues in in their careers. Please though, pause the screen as always, read the disclaimers that will be shown on there uh diligently because your capital may be at risk. Mineral exploration is a very challenging, risky business. Nobody here is your financial adviser. This is not intended as financial advice. It is intended as a broad and impersonal piece of entertainment. That all said, we're going to start off with the smaller companies first and and work our way up the market cap range and and Chris, you're up first as a gold exploro operating in Finland with Valkia. What's the what's the biggest challenge or bottleneck that you're dealing with right now? >> Yeah, thanks Antonio. I mean the biggest challenge at our stage I mean we're we're at a stage we we've made a discovery and need to see what the scale is uh of it. So we need to drill and uh you know drilling costs money. So the biggest the biggest challenge you know although it's been a lot better uh this year is um raising cash uh and to to fund exploration and and what's different from this year from say a year and in the you know maybe eight years before that is the money is actually there. I could raise it all now but you know when when your share price is is lower than you think it should be um you don't want to take on too much dilution uh at this stage. So, you know, our challenge is is we raise enough for one little program or one, you know, program and then you wait for results and then you, you know, you you raise again and and that kind of keeps going. Um, so the challenge for us is is to to do programs that are effective, that the market likes, uh that add value to uh you know what you're what you're doing. and you do that uh as efficiently as you can so that when you do the next raise you're you know you're you're uh you're not blowing out the share structure too much. Um and that's kind of where we're at. Eventually that that gets better, you know, once you get to a certain size and and you can you can do a bigger raise and have, you know, a year or two or three uh runway. Um but we're we're not quite there yet. Um so that's that's definitely the the biggest challenge that that we have. John, what about yourself as an exploration company operating in in Mexico? What are the biggest challenges for Myithil right now? >> I guess the biggest the biggest challenge for any exploration company is um you know, is keeping well funded so you can do the program of work. So, you know, you're always trying to balance up the technical aspects of the of what you want to do to technically advance the project. So you have a lot of um you know the people you have on site are they're they're geoccientists and they're they're looking at um you know understanding the property the geology and doing all the right steps to to keep growing it and advancing it. And then at the same time you got to keep well funded and you got to manage ex um investor expectations. So you know it's always a bit of a balance. You know some investors want to see certain things done. other investors are quite happy to sit back and let you do the let you do the work and and let their and see their their their investment progress over over a longer period of time. So that's probably the probably the biggest challenges that that an exploration company has to has to face. >> Is that what you spend most of your time thinking about or is there something else that kind of you know keeps you up as a public company? Yeah, it is like I have we have our weekly geology meetings and I get out to the site fairly often and um you know so I I got a good handle on what's you know what's we're trying to achieve technically and uh and the time it takes to do that and you know the patience that's required sometimes in in doing that and you know I've been through this process a lot of times over my career and you see that when you do take the take the time and do the do the steps that you require you know a stitch like it is a stitch in stitch in time saves nine sort of um philosophy. But um but then you know you've always got to be thinking like you know what's my cash balance going to be in 3 4 5 months time when do I have to raise money? What uh you know what's the what's the the uh the financial environment going to be at the time and um you know what else is going on around that time. So you you know you can't really sort of look at it as a crystal ball, but you do you do need to manage uh your cash burn, your your bank balance, where's the money going to come from, what's the news flow going to be like. And um and you don't want to be drilling for the market. You got to drill it to, you know, to progress things properly. And um you know, we've been that's what we've been doing with with our project at Copin Mexico. >> Hugh, I'm going to move it over to you here. Revival is a $180 million gold explorer. You've got assets in the US. So, a bit different than than the previous two guys. What does that change for you in terms of bottlenecks? What's the biggest challenge you're dealing with right now? >> Well, I guess our our our biggest challenge is people. Uh finding great people to join the team at Revival Gold and uh build a great company from uh from what we have here. two great projects in the western United States, some six million ounces of gold in great jurisdictions, and it's a it's a wonderful problem to have, but uh we we need a lot of people >> is that that that's the main thing, and I suppose with this uh with this, you know, charity podcast essentially that we're doing here, we're trying to solve part of that. Um but what else is there? Permitting challenges that you're dealing with? Is there is there something else that that is specific to your stage as an advanced stage developer? >> Well, I I think one of the things that's really interesting about the sector right now is that there's a there's a um a discount for developers. Uh we've got a lot of excitement and enthusiasm at the exploration stage among speculative investors. Uh and we've got a lot of interest now with the gold price having run in producers from a broad swath of now generalist investors. But in between uh in the developer space uh there's great value and I'll point to revival gold as an example trading at 0.2 two times NAV underlying net asset value in the company and um and that relative to our our producer brethren that are trading at five to six times that valuation. So there's a I think a really interesting disconnect in the market which is a a really good opportunity for investors looking for exposure to metals in quality companies especially those in good geographies. Well, I can see that we'll probably be back to it, but uh Scott, I want to jump over to you here. You're running a $2.1 billion gold exploration company. It is um it's one of the largest explorers that I know of, Snow Line, of course. Um what's uh yeah, what's the biggest challenge in operating in in this part of the Land Curve that you are right now, but also, you know, the size of company that you are? >> Sure. I I think that uh you know as we um as we progress with the valley deposit uh it really comes down to timing and how efficiently can we move it through these next steps. uh ultimately we're still exploring we're still testing the limits of the system and importantly we're still exploring on a broader district scale and uh you know we have the potential to make discoveries that I think could really reshape the company uh from here if we show that valley is is not alone out there but uh our baseline plan is just driving valley forward and if you look at our pea if you look at you know the the kind of cash flows that could come out of uh that operation the sooner we can get to that stage uh without sacrif icing quality or or integrity along the way, uh, you know, the more valuable the project is. And so, uh, so that's what we're really focused on is, uh, is execution there when it comes to permitting, when it comes to our environmental baseline, when it comes to agreements with First Nations, um, and making sure that, uh, you know, that we're building something that's really beneficial to the Yukon. So um that's uh yeah timing is really a uh a big uh area of focus for us and uh and an area it's you know an area of risk but also an area where we can realize a lot of value. >> What do what do you spend your time thinking about the most out of those things that you you mentioned there kind of that that list you know in community government and and financings and finding people to work with and so on and so forth. What what do you think about the most? Yeah, I mean all those parts really weave together um in and really it's a it's a concerted push like you're not going to uh advance the project without proper baseline. You're not going to advance the project without local buyin. Uh and and of course you're not going to advance the project if you don't understand the project and don't have the uh the solid geology and and engineering work done. Um, as a UK Conor, it's uh uh it it's kind of extra important to me to uh to get the the local aspect right. Uh to, you know, make sure that we have buyin from the community uh strong partnerships that that really do a lot for our local economy that uh uh that do a lot uh for First Nations and that uh yeah, that that really uh give the Yukon the win that it's been looking for. Uh but you know I think that's important for any company to be looking at in any jurisdiction they're operating in. But the fact that it is my backyard uh makes it uh extra pertinent in our situation. >> Is that what you guys are called? Yuk Connors. I would have thought it's like Yuki or something something more pleasant to say like that. I >> think we're open to suggestions. >> Well um all right though it's uh I want to switch gears here a little bit and um as we move on and talk a little bit about how to how to actually deal with those challenges. what are some of the uh you know best practices that I should be looking for in in the companies that you know if I want to deploy capital in and I understand that uh companies that are in in your stages most companies are going to have similar challenges to what you told me here right but um what are the best practices that I should be looking for for companies you know that are actually mitigating those those risks and Chris it's back to you again how does Valkia deal with uh with the money situation >> yeah like I said the the money's there. But there's different types of money you can bring in, right? You know, there's there's some fast money that that will will always come in, especially if there's some kind of unit attached to it, a warrant, half warrant, whatever it may be. Um, so I spent a lot of my time, you know, making sure that I'm getting the right guys into the project who understand the longer term vision and um, and so that when we do come to a point where we're we're uh, doing a raise that that they're already been following the story and they see that we've done what we've said we've done and have a certain comfort level. And, you know, I've been, you know, the last year and a bit we've been pretty successful with that. We had Michael Gentilly come in um for 9.9%. I had three other guys come in for 9.9 chunky bits uh as well. So, uh yeah, I mean I it's it's work, you know, it starts now for a financing I might do in 6 months. Um so, you know, it's it's it's effort that is rewarded down the line. um but is is it is keeping your share registry tight and with good people especially as you're a growing junior company is very very important. John, you had a similar response, I think, to to Chris. You said that financial bottlenecks are essentially the main challenge for me as well. How are you dealing with those? >> Well, look, we we know we've got a we know we know what we've got there with complain. So, we're fortunate in that we've done quite a bit of work there, not just drilling work, but we've done um district scale work to sort of understand the system. We know we've got a very big um epiothermal gold silver system. So there's everything we look at there, the evidence is is supporting that. Um you know what we want to do is besides building up our resource, you know, we we've got clearly we've got some good um fairly easily accessible resource opportunities there. We've already got a high-grade resource at the Tiger 1 that we're drilling. We're doing we're doing a a lot more drilling than we anticipated there. uh just because it's um it hasn't behaved exactly as we expected. Mainly because we we've had to reinterpret a particular rock unit that's there that we now understand. We've remodeled it. So, we've we're now progressing our drilling there quite successfully. We just put out a very nice uh drill intercept there on the western side. So, we've we've got to expand it um do a bit more expansion drilling out there, but we're confident we're going to get that to a good number when we finally do get to do that up update on the resource in the in the coming months. And then um and then we've got at least two or three other of those similar size resource areas that that we're we're getting ready to drill or man one of them we've started drilling. But the big upside there is the district scale uh prospectivity for the for the property. So you know there's a big system there. all this nearer surface top 300 meters uh mineralization very high grades but something has is there underneath it all that that you know produced all that so and that's what that's the big prize and that's what we've got to we're vectoring in on so we've done a lot of work across the district I've got eight geologists there mapping and sampling all across the district um at various stages in their careers so they've and it's good to get a good mix of experienced people people that are you know, hungry to go out and find new stuff and understand it. And um so we've got a good team of people all working well together. And uh and we've got some a magnetic aerial survey we want to we're about to start um uh at later this month on the property. And that'll give us some really useful information to support all the mapping and sampling we've done on the ground. And um and then we've we've then got some very strong drill targets that we're looking to to to further um you know advance to being uh then drill ready. And we'll we'll have a third drill coming into the district either late this year or early next year. And that'll um enable us to start testing the the the model the the district model type geology that uh that'll um that's underpinning all this all this resource potential that we got in the district. Back to you here, Hugh and and revival here. Should um you said people are the biggest challenge for you, of course, a topic close to the topic of this charity. How do you deal with it as as a as a public company more specifically? How do you how do you attract and and and retain the right people? I >> I think the number one way to solve the people um uh challenge is really to get engaged with industry groups. uh were active members in AEMA uh and in the Idaho Mining Association, the Utah Mining Association and uh so being active in the industry groups CIM in Canada um is also a very important group uh pet PDAC um and also being willing to take on young people who maybe don't have the experience but are eager to learn, smart and capable and uh energized by uh by being involved with a sector. that can be transformational to to an economy. Um, I think there's a real realization now that metals and mining are strategic industries and uh critical to everything else that goes on in our communities. >> And you're donating to this charity. So again, that's part of solving it. But how much money and and time are you spending on on solving that issue for for yourself and maybe the sector as a whole? >> Uh, we spend quite a bit of time on it. Um our our team is actively engaged as as board members uh as uh as as advisers as contributors. Uh I can point to John Meyer, our VP engineering development who's involved withme and also with the Idaho Mining Association. Lisa Ross, our CFO, who's uh on the board of the uh Women's Mining Coalition, and uh other industry groups that are focused really on driving home the message that mining is important to societies and being engaged with young people who uh who are entering the sector and looking for opportunity, being mentors. Um our our general manager, Pete Blakeley, uh does a great job mentoring the young folks, as does Dan Pace, our chief geologist. So everybody's really got a role here in helping to mentor people, be engaged with the communities that uh surround the mining industry, the exploration industry, and uh looking for those uh willing hands to uh to join our team. And we've had some great people join us uh over the uh over the last few years and and we're building uh we're building as we go here. >> Yeah. And and that's something we're probably going to see when we get back to talking about the sector toward the end of this conversation about the sector as a whole, what the challenges are there. We're probably going to see that as well. But uh Scott, I'm going to jump over to you. You said all the challenges that you talked to me about there weaved together, you said, but where do you I suppose to to use an expensive word here, where do you where do you start to unravel those? >> Yeah, I think it starts at the beginning. And I think that laying uh even if you're not a developer uh even if you're an explorer you know thinking ahead to u to post discovery and to you know what comes next at that very early stage that's important and so uh you know with snowline in 2021 when we launched the company we went out there uh with the first nations own company and we were working on uh cataloging you botanical inventories for our uh for our exploration sites and collecting seed banks and uh and starting on uh research on reclamation out there. This was at the basically pre-drill stage. So uh you know it wasn't a huge cost but it uh the benefit is is huge um especially now that we have made a discovery and uh and have advanced it. So we've been able to start building that trust, start building those relationships and critically start you know gathering that knowledge uh very early in the game. And so I think that it's never too early to start laying the the framework for uh for driving something forward. How much of your of your money, time, and effort goes into dealing with these things? >> Uh, I mean, a fair bit. Uh, exploration is still the, uh, you know, is still our our biggest, uh, slice of the pie at this point. And, and obviously, we've created a lot of value through exploration, and I think there's a lot more for us to unlock out there. Um, and then, uh, really the, uh, it's becoming a bigger and bigger slice of the pie. uh the engineering work, the environmental work. It's it's hard to uh it's hard to parse it all uh apart per se because you know you might have an environmental study that's a key part of uh of uh say an indigenous interest. It might also be a key part of an engineering uh program. And so uh there's there's definitely a lot of overlap uh in in all of those sectors, but that's becoming more and more uh critical uh as we move forward. that really is the key uh rate limiting factor uh is is just focused on yeah that focus on development and driving leans forward in that direction and I suppose that's that's true for most of you or most of the people here and and probably most of the sector really um and it's actually for for you for you're all you're essentially all hoping to grow into the next step right the next stage of that LAN curve if you will will here and that's different for all of you I suppose So I want to talk about the challenges that you think you might have during that next stage or the next couple of stages. And Chris, you said for Velkia again, you said the main challenge was uh right now is capital. Is that still going to be the challenge if you if you're able to move to the next step or do you see something else um coming up as a bigger challenge? Yeah, I mean, so, you know, we've got a drill program going on now. Um, and and hopefully with those results and and maybe a little bit more drilling, we'll have visibility as whether we have, you know, another Keeler or Roupert or, you know, something significant. Um, at that point, you know, the options open up. Um, and, you know, the the potential for, you know, getting maybe a toll in is there um with with one of the majors. um those things don't happen overnight. You you need to start those conversations early and and uh um so that's that's that's one option we would have. Um and then you know we also have a number of other assets as well and and so the the decision will be do do we put all all our efforts into the one target we have if it looks like it's flushing out or do you continue to to do other explorations and and establish other targets on other properties? I mean that that also costs money. Um it it costs money once you move it from uh a reservation to an expiration license. Um so you have to really really have a a good plan as you go forward. You know I note that Rupert I mean they got all their notoriety off their their first you know real hit but it was their fourth target that they you know what did they hit 300 meters at two grams right? So um but at that point they had quite a bit of money to to do that. So the challenge will be you know how do you how do you advance it um while also exploring the the the full range of of the land package. that that that that too is understandable I suppose and and and John I think for you maybe not to diss the similar but I mean if if you do have good results you're and you're able to move my to the next stage is is capital still going to be the the challenge or do other are things like um again communities were permitting become a thing in Mexico at that stage as well >> yeah well look if uh you know given that you know we're confident we're going to have some you know have have good results good outcomes from the the work that we've been doing Um the the benefit we got here is um you know similar to Vizler Silva's Panico properly you know they've got a they've got a very good high-grade developable uh resource there but they've also got huge exploration upside and that's also that's the attractive thing with this district. So at target one you know we we know that'll be a you know we're confident that'll be a mine one day. Um we've already done some de-risking work on it. We've done some conceptual mind design work. We've done some uh some metal urgology on it. So it's there's no red flags that we've identified there as far as getting it, you know, extracting the metals, building a mine there. We can see where things will go. So we so once we do that resource update, we we can sort of progress the study work on that, you know, to P PA level at least in the first instance. But that's not, you know, we don't want to draw a line under us. We want to make sure the market understands that that's not, you know, we're not going to just stop exploring and just make that our focus. That's, you know, we're we've derised it. We've got something that um is developable, but we got we'll keep all that exploration upside um you know, advancing along. There'll be other similar size target areas in the district. And then as I mentioned was talking about before there's the I guess essentially the plumbing or the conju system that's created all this widespread golden silverization over the 70 70 km district >> and here with revival being in the US and people being your main challenge as you said what's going to be the challenge if you're able to move to that next stage is it still people or something else >> I think people is still going to be a challenge um and um you know that's something we'll continue to focus on um the other thing I think is is is some of the more strategic aspects around the business. It's really interesting to me if we look at the senior gold producers uh and where they're booking the reserves today uh relative to where the metal price is and how do we optimize on that and get the best value for our investors without uh diminishing the uh you know the uh the the engineered plans um you know that we have to uh to construct these mines that we have in our future here. Uh so there's a bit of a trade-off that has to be done around spot gold price, spot metal prices relative to you know the legacy prices at which some of these uh operations have been planned for. And I think that's going to be a really interesting dynamic especially for again the young engineers that are joining uh companies like Revival Gold and are working across the spectrum uh you know with with not just the revenue side but the cost side and how that's impacted by the dynamics of of our economies. They're changing tariffs, taxation, uh, and, uh, and the interest, the strategic interest that countries have, uh, in developing a minerals industry. >> Those are those are fair points and again probably be back to those once we talking about the uh, the larger pro challenges or problems for the sector as a whole. Um over to you Scott though as Snowline is hopefully moving into development process at least with part of the project there. What's the next stage going to be about and what do you foresee being the biggest challenge there? >> Yeah, I mean we have a hope to uh to sort of stack lasan curves if we can keep uh uh keep making discoveries out there. We're exploring in a pretty fertile and and prolific area. That said, you know, we can't rely on that. That's just uh uh that's that's a hope and the you know the reality is that uh one way or another we have to be able to drive this project forward and so um it really I think it's about momentum and uh and just continuing to move as efficiently as we can. Uh our team has done an incredible job uh in terms of uh identifying those components moving forward on them. I think we surprise a good component of the market by having such a high quality pea out at such an early stage. Uh, you know, right now we're we're basically at four years from the uh from the discovery drill hole at Valley. Um, the very first drill hole at Valley and um and we've just pulled off a a pretty good field season. And I mean, we still have crews out in the field, but uh uh but we took our usual exploration program and threw in a uh effectively an entire PFS uh prefeasibility study field program uh in on top of that. So, you know, you have engineers, you have environmental scientists, you have all kinds of people uh in addition to the usual suspects out there exploring. Uh and just that we were able to pull that off is is a huge testament to our team. Uh yeah, a lot of really uh sharp people working very hard making things happen. And I think that's key. You know, we want to continue to deliver. We want to continue to uh to advance the project. And ultimately when the prize at the end of the tunnel here is as substantial as it is for Valley every year that you de-risk it uh even you know even if our regional exploration doesn't come through even if it's a sort of a quote boring year if you just look at we've shaved another year off that cash flow or sorry off that discount to the cash flow. uh and the value of that when you're talking about even at the study price of 2150, but especially if you're talking about spot prices, you know, the value of one less year uh between now and production is is enormous. And so, you know, we continue to drive value just by getting closer and uh and momentum is a huge part of that. And to that point, actually, I do I do appreciate hearing about the individual challenges with each one of you, but if if we were to sort of zoom out and look at the mining sector as a whole, what do you guys think is the biggest challenge for for the whole sector? The mining sector as a whole, as I said, what could hold us back from bringing on more ontime and on budget production over the next decade? And uh Chris, I'll kick it off with you again from your perspective as as FKIA operating in Finland and everything. would what are the biggest challenges for the mining sector? >> Yeah, I mean that's that's a big question, right? And a lot of it uh depends on the region you're at. I mean permitting is is a challenge everywhere, right? You get the balance. If you're in a maybe a tougher jurisdiction, you might be able to get it permitted quicker. You're in a you know a quote unquote good jurisdiction. Likely it's it's a first world company with a country with uh um some regulations and so on. were fortunate in Finland that you know permitting is not quick necessarily but it's it's fairly well defined. Um so that's you know that's that's one of the issues. Um I think the the biggest challenge the industry has is is reputation. You know we uh we haven't done a good job in in the last 10 years and and um you know people are still reluctant to to move into mining. It's it's uh you know I'd like to think that most of us now are you know what we call modern miners who lead with community and lead with environmental you that's that and you know whether it's first nations or original peoples wherever you are. We're very very conscious of that. Um but you know most of the the younger investors now uh have never seen a really good mining market and they're thinking of mining is is you know they hear about tailings spills and some of these negative aspects that um have kind of plagued us all for the last 10 years. So I think you know and the the way we need to combat that is is just you know proving that we can do it properly. And so we need projects to advance and we need people in the local communities to benefit um and and and have a positive um relationship with with mining in the in their territories. And then obviously having shareholders make some money which they are in the last year or so certainly helps as well. But I think that's that's probably the biggest challenge for for the industry. >> What are good practices for dealing with that? I mean, something that I can look for when I'm looking at, you know, potential additions to my portfolio. What do I want to see these companies doing to be sure that, you know, they'll be able to manage and and break through those challenges and bottlenecks? >> Yeah. You know, like the ESG side of things is is something that can't be ignored and it should be upfront right from the get-go. Um, and you know, if if you cut corners in that, it's it's the one thing that can absolutely stop a mind and and get people against you. So, you know, you need more than just lip service on it. You know, you got to get in into the community and have good relations and and get people involved and make sure you're bringing them along, you know, with your journey and your path and and what you're planning on doing right from the get-go. And it's it's a valid question when when you ask, you know, everybody say, "Oh, tier one jurisdiction." Well, if you you're trying to bulldoze your way through on on certain things, people people get their backs up and uh and and so it's something that that needs to to really be at the forefront on on that side. Um and then you just, you know, if I if I'm a valuing company, you you need to make sure people have a long-term plan. It's not, hey, if I find gold, it's automatically going to be a mine. There's many different challenges on on the way to to building a mine and uh you have to you almost work backwards as to as to how that's going to be accomplished to to make sure you're addressing things that now that that may come up in 5 years or 10 years. >> John, what about yourself? What do you see here? >> Yeah, I guess look, it's always um a lot of it's always driven by sentiment and metal prices. So, um, you know, if if, uh, metal prices sort of stay steady and strong and there's a good sentiment there, then, you know, as long as you've got the property and you're producing the results and it's clear, um, what it is you're trying to achieve there and um, and you are sort of, you know, hitting those milestones, then then you can keep things funded. Um, but, you know, sentiment can change very quickly and uh, and can shift, you know, to towards other other investment things. So, you know, we had um the gold sector sort of struggled for for some years just because a lot of capital was going into other sectors, whether it be cannabis or was going into crypto currencies. And you know, it took a while for things to sort of move around and come back into precious metals again. And of course, the prices as we see them now has has obviously helped that a lot. So, um you know, that's so we just got to make the most of this this opportunity. But, you know, if you got a good property that's got grade, it's got scale, um, as such as copper can, then you can weather out these, uh, these these ups and downs in the cycle. Talk to me about the best practices in dealing with that. I mean, when I'm looking at potential additions to my portfolio within the mining space, what do I want to see these companies doing to be sure that they'll be able to to manage and break through those those bottlenecks and challenges that we've been talking about today? >> Um, look, a lot of it comes down to to to people, you know, the people that have, you know, have they gone through this sort of process before? Um, what's the sort of level of experience and success? And then and then really looking at the property itself, you know, it's jurisdiction. Um what else is going on around there? There always can be good indicators. Um is it a prolific um mining region? Is there a lot of uh governmental and stakeholder support? Um and then you know then looking at the merits of the property itself. You know what's what are the grades like? Um what's the land package like? Does it look like it's got the scale? Um, are there any sort of obvious challenges like it's the grades a bit low for its depth and or it might be a a very challenging area just to do work in, you know, anytime um either be seasonal or just because of the um just because of the environment there or the or the sensitivities, you know. So, you got to there's a lot of things to look at and when I look at a property, you know, over the years before I get involved, you the first things I look at are is it a environmentally sensitive area? Is it where's the water going to come from? Uh what what um sensitive water sources are around there that you know there's risk of contamination? Um and and then where are people going to come from and you know can you can you operate all year round? So there's a lot of environmental factors you need to consider as well. >> Q what is it that what could hold us back from building more mines or even making more discoveries? And again from from Revival's perspective specifically as a as a company with with the assets being in the US and everything that's going on there. Um yeah, what are the challenges there as a whole? >> Well, I think fortunately for Revival Gold operating in the uh in the western United States, we've got a real recognition that that metals and mining are are important to the economies, important to the social fabric, important to the strategic uh you know well-being of the of the country. and we've seen various initiatives undertaken in the United States around uh strategic industries including gold production. Um I think some of that's happening also in Canada and certainly in Australia and elsewhere. So I I think u the situation is looking pretty good for for for developers. Uh having said that uh we always you know need to be acting responsibly as an industry so that we can continue to uh win uh local community support for our initiatives and our projects and the and the and the good value that we bring to uh to the countries and communities in which we operate. So uh we have to remain vigilant. We have to do great work uh and uh we have to continue to remind the voting population that mining matters. when I'm looking into companies that I want to deploy capital in, what should I be looking for, uh, if I want to know that they're going doing a good job in in in not only fixing those issues, but maybe being one step ahead of them, what what what a good practices in dealing with these larger problems that we have in our sector. >> Oh, boy, that's a big question. Uh but you know, one thing that I you know, I' I'd say and investors do a really good job at is is figuring out good place to to deploy capital and they run pretty quick uh when countries and regulating regulation frameworks change and and and and change for the for the uh for the worse. So um you know elected officials are attuned to that. uh you know government bureaucracies uh understand that they have to be competitive and you know I think uh you know we I think you know money is fungeible investment is fungeable it'll go to the it'll go to the regions and jurisdictions where um you know it can attract the best returns in the safest uh in the safest manner possible so I you know I think we look to where capital is being invested where projects are being successfully permitted and constructed and uh where you know operations are enjoy stability and um and and and none of this capricious action by you know governments that uh you know that whipsaw industry back and forth uh that's challenging in a long investment cycle industry like mining where you're investing over over decades of time and you need fiscal uh you know stability policy stability >> Scott I'm going to move it over back to you and uh your perspective as someone operating in in Canada as far north if you will, what are the big what are the biggest challenges for for the mining sector as a whole right now from from your perspective and experience as someone operating there? I think a a big challenge is to the regulatory framework and uh and just making sure that it works like we you know we need u you know we need protections in place. We need uh guarantees that you know that we're doing things the right way but at the same time we need the ability to advance projects. we need the ability to move them forward and uh so you know I think that is pretty uh globally uh relevant especially in in a lot of western countries of just you know okay you make a discovery what's the timeline to uh to actually having that in uh uh in operation and so there's a a second part to that too you know even at the early stage exploration there's been underinvestment in exploration for for a long time and so you know for a company like Snowline uh we can sort of have a a little bit of a a different view on it. It's great to have that that scarcity value associated with your project, but think a little less selfishly. You know, it's it's it's not a good thing um that uh that we've invested so little not just in the gold space, but across the commodities space in general. And part of that comes down to the regulatory framework. It's getting harder and harder for prospectors, for uh for, you know, juniors uh and others to uh to jump into the exploration game. And uh for the most part, major producers haven't really been allocating a lot of capital uh in recent decades. There are a few exceptions, but uh but we've really had that uh that uh just chronic underinvestment and uh even people going out uh into other industries and not coming back. So you know, I think that's a big risk and a big challenge uh in terms of yeah, how do we make the discoveries? And then to my earlier point of how do we get those discoveries into production? M what are some good good practices that I can look for when when I'm looking at potential additions to my portfolio. What do I want to see companies doing to make sure that they'll be able to to manage and break through those challenges? >> Uh I mean, okay, we'll say you've got a a developer, uh you know, they they've made their discovery, they have a good asset. uh you know I think you want to see that they have that game plan to to move forward that they have the team that they're bringing in the expertise uh to you know to drive that project ahead to where it needs to be that uh that they have access to capital that uh you know that they're not just uh that their pitch isn't just that they're undervalued but you know that they have a solution to uh uh how they can how can they address that they may well be undervalued but uh but do they have a plan to get from you know point A to point B where point B is their proper valuation. And u yeah so it really comes down to their capacity their expertise and you know track record obviously helps um but sometimes you know you have to dig into uh the actual people and okay what are their individual track records maybe the group is is new together maybe they've done uh done it 100 times and you know that's a that's a great thing if you can find that but uh you can also have cohesive groups come together um and uh and drive projects forward in a in a efficient way as well >> that is as as good of a note as any I suppose to to end the conversation on. And gentlemen, thank you so much for doing this and helping out the YMP scholarship fund. It's always much appreciated and thanks to everyone for watching as well. If you want to know more about the Young Mining Professionals or the YMP scholarship fund, you can visit ymppc scholarships.com or young miningprofessionals.com. And again, I'll I'll show the disclaimer on your screen one more time because it is important for you to understand that the companies you just heard from operate in a challenging and risky industry where nothing is a given. Your capital may be at risk and so you should talk to a professional financial advisor with a long-term positive track record because none of this was intended as financial advice. It was a general and impersonal conversation full of forward-looking statements. So please do note that visit zeterplus.ca to do your actual research. And thanks again to everyone for participating and thanks to everyone for watching and listening to resource talks.
The Biggest Risks & Challenges in Mining and How We Could Solve Them
Summary
Transcript
The best junior mining CEOs know what's wrong with their companies. They know how much time it's going to take them to solve it. They know how much effort and money it's going to take them to solve or make progress um toward those challenges. And the very best ones among them also know how to properly communicate that with stakeholders and shareholders. And it is my job as a speculator in this sector to find out the ones who are actually going to try and make progress in in those challenges and dealing with those challenges versus the ones who are only going to give me empty promises. And we all know that there's plenty of those out there. And that's that's exactly the exercise that I'll go through in in this episode. I've uh essentially invited four junior mining CEOs uh all operating at different stages of the Lan curve and I'm hoping they're going to talk to me about what their main challenges are and how they plan on fixing them as well as talk about more broadly what are the main challenges for the mining sector as a whole. What's the thing that could hold us back from making more discoveries, building more mines over the next 10 years. Now, this is a bit of a special episode, too, because all the companies you're about to hear from have paid us for the production of this video. But we are not going to keep any of that money, as 100% of the of the proceeds will go toward the Young Mining Professionals Scholarship Fund. And hopefully the scholarship students will also listen and go on to try and solve some of these issues in in their careers. Please though, pause the screen as always, read the disclaimers that will be shown on there uh diligently because your capital may be at risk. Mineral exploration is a very challenging, risky business. Nobody here is your financial adviser. This is not intended as financial advice. It is intended as a broad and impersonal piece of entertainment. That all said, we're going to start off with the smaller companies first and and work our way up the market cap range and and Chris, you're up first as a gold exploro operating in Finland with Valkia. What's the what's the biggest challenge or bottleneck that you're dealing with right now? >> Yeah, thanks Antonio. I mean the biggest challenge at our stage I mean we're we're at a stage we we've made a discovery and need to see what the scale is uh of it. So we need to drill and uh you know drilling costs money. So the biggest the biggest challenge you know although it's been a lot better uh this year is um raising cash uh and to to fund exploration and and what's different from this year from say a year and in the you know maybe eight years before that is the money is actually there. I could raise it all now but you know when when your share price is is lower than you think it should be um you don't want to take on too much dilution uh at this stage. So, you know, our challenge is is we raise enough for one little program or one, you know, program and then you wait for results and then you, you know, you you raise again and and that kind of keeps going. Um, so the challenge for us is is to to do programs that are effective, that the market likes, uh that add value to uh you know what you're what you're doing. and you do that uh as efficiently as you can so that when you do the next raise you're you know you're you're uh you're not blowing out the share structure too much. Um and that's kind of where we're at. Eventually that that gets better, you know, once you get to a certain size and and you can you can do a bigger raise and have, you know, a year or two or three uh runway. Um but we're we're not quite there yet. Um so that's that's definitely the the biggest challenge that that we have. John, what about yourself as an exploration company operating in in Mexico? What are the biggest challenges for Myithil right now? >> I guess the biggest the biggest challenge for any exploration company is um you know, is keeping well funded so you can do the program of work. So, you know, you're always trying to balance up the technical aspects of the of what you want to do to technically advance the project. So you have a lot of um you know the people you have on site are they're they're geoccientists and they're they're looking at um you know understanding the property the geology and doing all the right steps to to keep growing it and advancing it. And then at the same time you got to keep well funded and you got to manage ex um investor expectations. So you know it's always a bit of a balance. You know some investors want to see certain things done. other investors are quite happy to sit back and let you do the let you do the work and and let their and see their their their investment progress over over a longer period of time. So that's probably the probably the biggest challenges that that an exploration company has to has to face. >> Is that what you spend most of your time thinking about or is there something else that kind of you know keeps you up as a public company? Yeah, it is like I have we have our weekly geology meetings and I get out to the site fairly often and um you know so I I got a good handle on what's you know what's we're trying to achieve technically and uh and the time it takes to do that and you know the patience that's required sometimes in in doing that and you know I've been through this process a lot of times over my career and you see that when you do take the take the time and do the do the steps that you require you know a stitch like it is a stitch in stitch in time saves nine sort of um philosophy. But um but then you know you've always got to be thinking like you know what's my cash balance going to be in 3 4 5 months time when do I have to raise money? What uh you know what's the what's the the uh the financial environment going to be at the time and um you know what else is going on around that time. So you you know you can't really sort of look at it as a crystal ball, but you do you do need to manage uh your cash burn, your your bank balance, where's the money going to come from, what's the news flow going to be like. And um and you don't want to be drilling for the market. You got to drill it to, you know, to progress things properly. And um you know, we've been that's what we've been doing with with our project at Copin Mexico. >> Hugh, I'm going to move it over to you here. Revival is a $180 million gold explorer. You've got assets in the US. So, a bit different than than the previous two guys. What does that change for you in terms of bottlenecks? What's the biggest challenge you're dealing with right now? >> Well, I guess our our our biggest challenge is people. Uh finding great people to join the team at Revival Gold and uh build a great company from uh from what we have here. two great projects in the western United States, some six million ounces of gold in great jurisdictions, and it's a it's a wonderful problem to have, but uh we we need a lot of people >> is that that that's the main thing, and I suppose with this uh with this, you know, charity podcast essentially that we're doing here, we're trying to solve part of that. Um but what else is there? Permitting challenges that you're dealing with? Is there is there something else that that is specific to your stage as an advanced stage developer? >> Well, I I think one of the things that's really interesting about the sector right now is that there's a there's a um a discount for developers. Uh we've got a lot of excitement and enthusiasm at the exploration stage among speculative investors. Uh and we've got a lot of interest now with the gold price having run in producers from a broad swath of now generalist investors. But in between uh in the developer space uh there's great value and I'll point to revival gold as an example trading at 0.2 two times NAV underlying net asset value in the company and um and that relative to our our producer brethren that are trading at five to six times that valuation. So there's a I think a really interesting disconnect in the market which is a a really good opportunity for investors looking for exposure to metals in quality companies especially those in good geographies. Well, I can see that we'll probably be back to it, but uh Scott, I want to jump over to you here. You're running a $2.1 billion gold exploration company. It is um it's one of the largest explorers that I know of, Snow Line, of course. Um what's uh yeah, what's the biggest challenge in operating in in this part of the Land Curve that you are right now, but also, you know, the size of company that you are? >> Sure. I I think that uh you know as we um as we progress with the valley deposit uh it really comes down to timing and how efficiently can we move it through these next steps. uh ultimately we're still exploring we're still testing the limits of the system and importantly we're still exploring on a broader district scale and uh you know we have the potential to make discoveries that I think could really reshape the company uh from here if we show that valley is is not alone out there but uh our baseline plan is just driving valley forward and if you look at our pea if you look at you know the the kind of cash flows that could come out of uh that operation the sooner we can get to that stage uh without sacrif icing quality or or integrity along the way, uh, you know, the more valuable the project is. And so, uh, so that's what we're really focused on is, uh, is execution there when it comes to permitting, when it comes to our environmental baseline, when it comes to agreements with First Nations, um, and making sure that, uh, you know, that we're building something that's really beneficial to the Yukon. So um that's uh yeah timing is really a uh a big uh area of focus for us and uh and an area it's you know an area of risk but also an area where we can realize a lot of value. >> What do what do you spend your time thinking about the most out of those things that you you mentioned there kind of that that list you know in community government and and financings and finding people to work with and so on and so forth. What what do you think about the most? Yeah, I mean all those parts really weave together um in and really it's a it's a concerted push like you're not going to uh advance the project without proper baseline. You're not going to advance the project without local buyin. Uh and and of course you're not going to advance the project if you don't understand the project and don't have the uh the solid geology and and engineering work done. Um, as a UK Conor, it's uh uh it it's kind of extra important to me to uh to get the the local aspect right. Uh to, you know, make sure that we have buyin from the community uh strong partnerships that that really do a lot for our local economy that uh uh that do a lot uh for First Nations and that uh yeah, that that really uh give the Yukon the win that it's been looking for. Uh but you know I think that's important for any company to be looking at in any jurisdiction they're operating in. But the fact that it is my backyard uh makes it uh extra pertinent in our situation. >> Is that what you guys are called? Yuk Connors. I would have thought it's like Yuki or something something more pleasant to say like that. I >> think we're open to suggestions. >> Well um all right though it's uh I want to switch gears here a little bit and um as we move on and talk a little bit about how to how to actually deal with those challenges. what are some of the uh you know best practices that I should be looking for in in the companies that you know if I want to deploy capital in and I understand that uh companies that are in in your stages most companies are going to have similar challenges to what you told me here right but um what are the best practices that I should be looking for for companies you know that are actually mitigating those those risks and Chris it's back to you again how does Valkia deal with uh with the money situation >> yeah like I said the the money's there. But there's different types of money you can bring in, right? You know, there's there's some fast money that that will will always come in, especially if there's some kind of unit attached to it, a warrant, half warrant, whatever it may be. Um, so I spent a lot of my time, you know, making sure that I'm getting the right guys into the project who understand the longer term vision and um, and so that when we do come to a point where we're we're uh, doing a raise that that they're already been following the story and they see that we've done what we've said we've done and have a certain comfort level. And, you know, I've been, you know, the last year and a bit we've been pretty successful with that. We had Michael Gentilly come in um for 9.9%. I had three other guys come in for 9.9 chunky bits uh as well. So, uh yeah, I mean I it's it's work, you know, it starts now for a financing I might do in 6 months. Um so, you know, it's it's it's effort that is rewarded down the line. um but is is it is keeping your share registry tight and with good people especially as you're a growing junior company is very very important. John, you had a similar response, I think, to to Chris. You said that financial bottlenecks are essentially the main challenge for me as well. How are you dealing with those? >> Well, look, we we know we've got a we know we know what we've got there with complain. So, we're fortunate in that we've done quite a bit of work there, not just drilling work, but we've done um district scale work to sort of understand the system. We know we've got a very big um epiothermal gold silver system. So there's everything we look at there, the evidence is is supporting that. Um you know what we want to do is besides building up our resource, you know, we we've got clearly we've got some good um fairly easily accessible resource opportunities there. We've already got a high-grade resource at the Tiger 1 that we're drilling. We're doing we're doing a a lot more drilling than we anticipated there. uh just because it's um it hasn't behaved exactly as we expected. Mainly because we we've had to reinterpret a particular rock unit that's there that we now understand. We've remodeled it. So, we've we're now progressing our drilling there quite successfully. We just put out a very nice uh drill intercept there on the western side. So, we've we've got to expand it um do a bit more expansion drilling out there, but we're confident we're going to get that to a good number when we finally do get to do that up update on the resource in the in the coming months. And then um and then we've got at least two or three other of those similar size resource areas that that we're we're getting ready to drill or man one of them we've started drilling. But the big upside there is the district scale uh prospectivity for the for the property. So you know there's a big system there. all this nearer surface top 300 meters uh mineralization very high grades but something has is there underneath it all that that you know produced all that so and that's what that's the big prize and that's what we've got to we're vectoring in on so we've done a lot of work across the district I've got eight geologists there mapping and sampling all across the district um at various stages in their careers so they've and it's good to get a good mix of experienced people people that are you know, hungry to go out and find new stuff and understand it. And um so we've got a good team of people all working well together. And uh and we've got some a magnetic aerial survey we want to we're about to start um uh at later this month on the property. And that'll give us some really useful information to support all the mapping and sampling we've done on the ground. And um and then we've we've then got some very strong drill targets that we're looking to to to further um you know advance to being uh then drill ready. And we'll we'll have a third drill coming into the district either late this year or early next year. And that'll um enable us to start testing the the the model the the district model type geology that uh that'll um that's underpinning all this all this resource potential that we got in the district. Back to you here, Hugh and and revival here. Should um you said people are the biggest challenge for you, of course, a topic close to the topic of this charity. How do you deal with it as as a as a public company more specifically? How do you how do you attract and and and retain the right people? I >> I think the number one way to solve the people um uh challenge is really to get engaged with industry groups. uh were active members in AEMA uh and in the Idaho Mining Association, the Utah Mining Association and uh so being active in the industry groups CIM in Canada um is also a very important group uh pet PDAC um and also being willing to take on young people who maybe don't have the experience but are eager to learn, smart and capable and uh energized by uh by being involved with a sector. that can be transformational to to an economy. Um, I think there's a real realization now that metals and mining are strategic industries and uh critical to everything else that goes on in our communities. >> And you're donating to this charity. So again, that's part of solving it. But how much money and and time are you spending on on solving that issue for for yourself and maybe the sector as a whole? >> Uh, we spend quite a bit of time on it. Um our our team is actively engaged as as board members uh as uh as as advisers as contributors. Uh I can point to John Meyer, our VP engineering development who's involved withme and also with the Idaho Mining Association. Lisa Ross, our CFO, who's uh on the board of the uh Women's Mining Coalition, and uh other industry groups that are focused really on driving home the message that mining is important to societies and being engaged with young people who uh who are entering the sector and looking for opportunity, being mentors. Um our our general manager, Pete Blakeley, uh does a great job mentoring the young folks, as does Dan Pace, our chief geologist. So everybody's really got a role here in helping to mentor people, be engaged with the communities that uh surround the mining industry, the exploration industry, and uh looking for those uh willing hands to uh to join our team. And we've had some great people join us uh over the uh over the last few years and and we're building uh we're building as we go here. >> Yeah. And and that's something we're probably going to see when we get back to talking about the sector toward the end of this conversation about the sector as a whole, what the challenges are there. We're probably going to see that as well. But uh Scott, I'm going to jump over to you. You said all the challenges that you talked to me about there weaved together, you said, but where do you I suppose to to use an expensive word here, where do you where do you start to unravel those? >> Yeah, I think it starts at the beginning. And I think that laying uh even if you're not a developer uh even if you're an explorer you know thinking ahead to u to post discovery and to you know what comes next at that very early stage that's important and so uh you know with snowline in 2021 when we launched the company we went out there uh with the first nations own company and we were working on uh cataloging you botanical inventories for our uh for our exploration sites and collecting seed banks and uh and starting on uh research on reclamation out there. This was at the basically pre-drill stage. So uh you know it wasn't a huge cost but it uh the benefit is is huge um especially now that we have made a discovery and uh and have advanced it. So we've been able to start building that trust, start building those relationships and critically start you know gathering that knowledge uh very early in the game. And so I think that it's never too early to start laying the the framework for uh for driving something forward. How much of your of your money, time, and effort goes into dealing with these things? >> Uh, I mean, a fair bit. Uh, exploration is still the, uh, you know, is still our our biggest, uh, slice of the pie at this point. And, and obviously, we've created a lot of value through exploration, and I think there's a lot more for us to unlock out there. Um, and then, uh, really the, uh, it's becoming a bigger and bigger slice of the pie. uh the engineering work, the environmental work. It's it's hard to uh it's hard to parse it all uh apart per se because you know you might have an environmental study that's a key part of uh of uh say an indigenous interest. It might also be a key part of an engineering uh program. And so uh there's there's definitely a lot of overlap uh in in all of those sectors, but that's becoming more and more uh critical uh as we move forward. that really is the key uh rate limiting factor uh is is just focused on yeah that focus on development and driving leans forward in that direction and I suppose that's that's true for most of you or most of the people here and and probably most of the sector really um and it's actually for for you for you're all you're essentially all hoping to grow into the next step right the next stage of that LAN curve if you will will here and that's different for all of you I suppose So I want to talk about the challenges that you think you might have during that next stage or the next couple of stages. And Chris, you said for Velkia again, you said the main challenge was uh right now is capital. Is that still going to be the challenge if you if you're able to move to the next step or do you see something else um coming up as a bigger challenge? Yeah, I mean, so, you know, we've got a drill program going on now. Um, and and hopefully with those results and and maybe a little bit more drilling, we'll have visibility as whether we have, you know, another Keeler or Roupert or, you know, something significant. Um, at that point, you know, the options open up. Um, and, you know, the the potential for, you know, getting maybe a toll in is there um with with one of the majors. um those things don't happen overnight. You you need to start those conversations early and and uh um so that's that's that's one option we would have. Um and then you know we also have a number of other assets as well and and so the the decision will be do do we put all all our efforts into the one target we have if it looks like it's flushing out or do you continue to to do other explorations and and establish other targets on other properties? I mean that that also costs money. Um it it costs money once you move it from uh a reservation to an expiration license. Um so you have to really really have a a good plan as you go forward. You know I note that Rupert I mean they got all their notoriety off their their first you know real hit but it was their fourth target that they you know what did they hit 300 meters at two grams right? So um but at that point they had quite a bit of money to to do that. So the challenge will be you know how do you how do you advance it um while also exploring the the the full range of of the land package. that that that that too is understandable I suppose and and and John I think for you maybe not to diss the similar but I mean if if you do have good results you're and you're able to move my to the next stage is is capital still going to be the the challenge or do other are things like um again communities were permitting become a thing in Mexico at that stage as well >> yeah well look if uh you know given that you know we're confident we're going to have some you know have have good results good outcomes from the the work that we've been doing Um the the benefit we got here is um you know similar to Vizler Silva's Panico properly you know they've got a they've got a very good high-grade developable uh resource there but they've also got huge exploration upside and that's also that's the attractive thing with this district. So at target one you know we we know that'll be a you know we're confident that'll be a mine one day. Um we've already done some de-risking work on it. We've done some conceptual mind design work. We've done some uh some metal urgology on it. So it's there's no red flags that we've identified there as far as getting it, you know, extracting the metals, building a mine there. We can see where things will go. So we so once we do that resource update, we we can sort of progress the study work on that, you know, to P PA level at least in the first instance. But that's not, you know, we don't want to draw a line under us. We want to make sure the market understands that that's not, you know, we're not going to just stop exploring and just make that our focus. That's, you know, we're we've derised it. We've got something that um is developable, but we got we'll keep all that exploration upside um you know, advancing along. There'll be other similar size target areas in the district. And then as I mentioned was talking about before there's the I guess essentially the plumbing or the conju system that's created all this widespread golden silverization over the 70 70 km district >> and here with revival being in the US and people being your main challenge as you said what's going to be the challenge if you're able to move to that next stage is it still people or something else >> I think people is still going to be a challenge um and um you know that's something we'll continue to focus on um the other thing I think is is is some of the more strategic aspects around the business. It's really interesting to me if we look at the senior gold producers uh and where they're booking the reserves today uh relative to where the metal price is and how do we optimize on that and get the best value for our investors without uh diminishing the uh you know the uh the the engineered plans um you know that we have to uh to construct these mines that we have in our future here. Uh so there's a bit of a trade-off that has to be done around spot gold price, spot metal prices relative to you know the legacy prices at which some of these uh operations have been planned for. And I think that's going to be a really interesting dynamic especially for again the young engineers that are joining uh companies like Revival Gold and are working across the spectrum uh you know with with not just the revenue side but the cost side and how that's impacted by the dynamics of of our economies. They're changing tariffs, taxation, uh, and, uh, and the interest, the strategic interest that countries have, uh, in developing a minerals industry. >> Those are those are fair points and again probably be back to those once we talking about the uh, the larger pro challenges or problems for the sector as a whole. Um over to you Scott though as Snowline is hopefully moving into development process at least with part of the project there. What's the next stage going to be about and what do you foresee being the biggest challenge there? >> Yeah, I mean we have a hope to uh to sort of stack lasan curves if we can keep uh uh keep making discoveries out there. We're exploring in a pretty fertile and and prolific area. That said, you know, we can't rely on that. That's just uh uh that's that's a hope and the you know the reality is that uh one way or another we have to be able to drive this project forward and so um it really I think it's about momentum and uh and just continuing to move as efficiently as we can. Uh our team has done an incredible job uh in terms of uh identifying those components moving forward on them. I think we surprise a good component of the market by having such a high quality pea out at such an early stage. Uh, you know, right now we're we're basically at four years from the uh from the discovery drill hole at Valley. Um, the very first drill hole at Valley and um and we've just pulled off a a pretty good field season. And I mean, we still have crews out in the field, but uh uh but we took our usual exploration program and threw in a uh effectively an entire PFS uh prefeasibility study field program uh in on top of that. So, you know, you have engineers, you have environmental scientists, you have all kinds of people uh in addition to the usual suspects out there exploring. Uh and just that we were able to pull that off is is a huge testament to our team. Uh yeah, a lot of really uh sharp people working very hard making things happen. And I think that's key. You know, we want to continue to deliver. We want to continue to uh to advance the project. And ultimately when the prize at the end of the tunnel here is as substantial as it is for Valley every year that you de-risk it uh even you know even if our regional exploration doesn't come through even if it's a sort of a quote boring year if you just look at we've shaved another year off that cash flow or sorry off that discount to the cash flow. uh and the value of that when you're talking about even at the study price of 2150, but especially if you're talking about spot prices, you know, the value of one less year uh between now and production is is enormous. And so, you know, we continue to drive value just by getting closer and uh and momentum is a huge part of that. And to that point, actually, I do I do appreciate hearing about the individual challenges with each one of you, but if if we were to sort of zoom out and look at the mining sector as a whole, what do you guys think is the biggest challenge for for the whole sector? The mining sector as a whole, as I said, what could hold us back from bringing on more ontime and on budget production over the next decade? And uh Chris, I'll kick it off with you again from your perspective as as FKIA operating in Finland and everything. would what are the biggest challenges for the mining sector? >> Yeah, I mean that's that's a big question, right? And a lot of it uh depends on the region you're at. I mean permitting is is a challenge everywhere, right? You get the balance. If you're in a maybe a tougher jurisdiction, you might be able to get it permitted quicker. You're in a you know a quote unquote good jurisdiction. Likely it's it's a first world company with a country with uh um some regulations and so on. were fortunate in Finland that you know permitting is not quick necessarily but it's it's fairly well defined. Um so that's you know that's that's one of the issues. Um I think the the biggest challenge the industry has is is reputation. You know we uh we haven't done a good job in in the last 10 years and and um you know people are still reluctant to to move into mining. It's it's uh you know I'd like to think that most of us now are you know what we call modern miners who lead with community and lead with environmental you that's that and you know whether it's first nations or original peoples wherever you are. We're very very conscious of that. Um but you know most of the the younger investors now uh have never seen a really good mining market and they're thinking of mining is is you know they hear about tailings spills and some of these negative aspects that um have kind of plagued us all for the last 10 years. So I think you know and the the way we need to combat that is is just you know proving that we can do it properly. And so we need projects to advance and we need people in the local communities to benefit um and and and have a positive um relationship with with mining in the in their territories. And then obviously having shareholders make some money which they are in the last year or so certainly helps as well. But I think that's that's probably the biggest challenge for for the industry. >> What are good practices for dealing with that? I mean, something that I can look for when I'm looking at, you know, potential additions to my portfolio. What do I want to see these companies doing to be sure that, you know, they'll be able to manage and and break through those challenges and bottlenecks? >> Yeah. You know, like the ESG side of things is is something that can't be ignored and it should be upfront right from the get-go. Um, and you know, if if you cut corners in that, it's it's the one thing that can absolutely stop a mind and and get people against you. So, you know, you need more than just lip service on it. You know, you got to get in into the community and have good relations and and get people involved and make sure you're bringing them along, you know, with your journey and your path and and what you're planning on doing right from the get-go. And it's it's a valid question when when you ask, you know, everybody say, "Oh, tier one jurisdiction." Well, if you you're trying to bulldoze your way through on on certain things, people people get their backs up and uh and and so it's something that that needs to to really be at the forefront on on that side. Um and then you just, you know, if I if I'm a valuing company, you you need to make sure people have a long-term plan. It's not, hey, if I find gold, it's automatically going to be a mine. There's many different challenges on on the way to to building a mine and uh you have to you almost work backwards as to as to how that's going to be accomplished to to make sure you're addressing things that now that that may come up in 5 years or 10 years. >> John, what about yourself? What do you see here? >> Yeah, I guess look, it's always um a lot of it's always driven by sentiment and metal prices. So, um, you know, if if, uh, metal prices sort of stay steady and strong and there's a good sentiment there, then, you know, as long as you've got the property and you're producing the results and it's clear, um, what it is you're trying to achieve there and um, and you are sort of, you know, hitting those milestones, then then you can keep things funded. Um, but, you know, sentiment can change very quickly and uh, and can shift, you know, to towards other other investment things. So, you know, we had um the gold sector sort of struggled for for some years just because a lot of capital was going into other sectors, whether it be cannabis or was going into crypto currencies. And you know, it took a while for things to sort of move around and come back into precious metals again. And of course, the prices as we see them now has has obviously helped that a lot. So, um you know, that's so we just got to make the most of this this opportunity. But, you know, if you got a good property that's got grade, it's got scale, um, as such as copper can, then you can weather out these, uh, these these ups and downs in the cycle. Talk to me about the best practices in dealing with that. I mean, when I'm looking at potential additions to my portfolio within the mining space, what do I want to see these companies doing to be sure that they'll be able to to manage and break through those those bottlenecks and challenges that we've been talking about today? >> Um, look, a lot of it comes down to to to people, you know, the people that have, you know, have they gone through this sort of process before? Um, what's the sort of level of experience and success? And then and then really looking at the property itself, you know, it's jurisdiction. Um what else is going on around there? There always can be good indicators. Um is it a prolific um mining region? Is there a lot of uh governmental and stakeholder support? Um and then you know then looking at the merits of the property itself. You know what's what are the grades like? Um what's the land package like? Does it look like it's got the scale? Um, are there any sort of obvious challenges like it's the grades a bit low for its depth and or it might be a a very challenging area just to do work in, you know, anytime um either be seasonal or just because of the um just because of the environment there or the or the sensitivities, you know. So, you got to there's a lot of things to look at and when I look at a property, you know, over the years before I get involved, you the first things I look at are is it a environmentally sensitive area? Is it where's the water going to come from? Uh what what um sensitive water sources are around there that you know there's risk of contamination? Um and and then where are people going to come from and you know can you can you operate all year round? So there's a lot of environmental factors you need to consider as well. >> Q what is it that what could hold us back from building more mines or even making more discoveries? And again from from Revival's perspective specifically as a as a company with with the assets being in the US and everything that's going on there. Um yeah, what are the challenges there as a whole? >> Well, I think fortunately for Revival Gold operating in the uh in the western United States, we've got a real recognition that that metals and mining are are important to the economies, important to the social fabric, important to the strategic uh you know well-being of the of the country. and we've seen various initiatives undertaken in the United States around uh strategic industries including gold production. Um I think some of that's happening also in Canada and certainly in Australia and elsewhere. So I I think u the situation is looking pretty good for for for developers. Uh having said that uh we always you know need to be acting responsibly as an industry so that we can continue to uh win uh local community support for our initiatives and our projects and the and the and the good value that we bring to uh to the countries and communities in which we operate. So uh we have to remain vigilant. We have to do great work uh and uh we have to continue to remind the voting population that mining matters. when I'm looking into companies that I want to deploy capital in, what should I be looking for, uh, if I want to know that they're going doing a good job in in in not only fixing those issues, but maybe being one step ahead of them, what what what a good practices in dealing with these larger problems that we have in our sector. >> Oh, boy, that's a big question. Uh but you know, one thing that I you know, I' I'd say and investors do a really good job at is is figuring out good place to to deploy capital and they run pretty quick uh when countries and regulating regulation frameworks change and and and and change for the for the uh for the worse. So um you know elected officials are attuned to that. uh you know government bureaucracies uh understand that they have to be competitive and you know I think uh you know we I think you know money is fungeible investment is fungeable it'll go to the it'll go to the regions and jurisdictions where um you know it can attract the best returns in the safest uh in the safest manner possible so I you know I think we look to where capital is being invested where projects are being successfully permitted and constructed and uh where you know operations are enjoy stability and um and and and none of this capricious action by you know governments that uh you know that whipsaw industry back and forth uh that's challenging in a long investment cycle industry like mining where you're investing over over decades of time and you need fiscal uh you know stability policy stability >> Scott I'm going to move it over back to you and uh your perspective as someone operating in in Canada as far north if you will, what are the big what are the biggest challenges for for the mining sector as a whole right now from from your perspective and experience as someone operating there? I think a a big challenge is to the regulatory framework and uh and just making sure that it works like we you know we need u you know we need protections in place. We need uh guarantees that you know that we're doing things the right way but at the same time we need the ability to advance projects. we need the ability to move them forward and uh so you know I think that is pretty uh globally uh relevant especially in in a lot of western countries of just you know okay you make a discovery what's the timeline to uh to actually having that in uh uh in operation and so there's a a second part to that too you know even at the early stage exploration there's been underinvestment in exploration for for a long time and so you know for a company like Snowline uh we can sort of have a a little bit of a a different view on it. It's great to have that that scarcity value associated with your project, but think a little less selfishly. You know, it's it's it's not a good thing um that uh that we've invested so little not just in the gold space, but across the commodities space in general. And part of that comes down to the regulatory framework. It's getting harder and harder for prospectors, for uh for, you know, juniors uh and others to uh to jump into the exploration game. And uh for the most part, major producers haven't really been allocating a lot of capital uh in recent decades. There are a few exceptions, but uh but we've really had that uh that uh just chronic underinvestment and uh even people going out uh into other industries and not coming back. So you know, I think that's a big risk and a big challenge uh in terms of yeah, how do we make the discoveries? And then to my earlier point of how do we get those discoveries into production? M what are some good good practices that I can look for when when I'm looking at potential additions to my portfolio. What do I want to see companies doing to make sure that they'll be able to to manage and break through those challenges? >> Uh I mean, okay, we'll say you've got a a developer, uh you know, they they've made their discovery, they have a good asset. uh you know I think you want to see that they have that game plan to to move forward that they have the team that they're bringing in the expertise uh to you know to drive that project ahead to where it needs to be that uh that they have access to capital that uh you know that they're not just uh that their pitch isn't just that they're undervalued but you know that they have a solution to uh uh how they can how can they address that they may well be undervalued but uh but do they have a plan to get from you know point A to point B where point B is their proper valuation. And u yeah so it really comes down to their capacity their expertise and you know track record obviously helps um but sometimes you know you have to dig into uh the actual people and okay what are their individual track records maybe the group is is new together maybe they've done uh done it 100 times and you know that's a that's a great thing if you can find that but uh you can also have cohesive groups come together um and uh and drive projects forward in a in a efficient way as well >> that is as as good of a note as any I suppose to to end the conversation on. And gentlemen, thank you so much for doing this and helping out the YMP scholarship fund. It's always much appreciated and thanks to everyone for watching as well. If you want to know more about the Young Mining Professionals or the YMP scholarship fund, you can visit ymppc scholarships.com or young miningprofessionals.com. And again, I'll I'll show the disclaimer on your screen one more time because it is important for you to understand that the companies you just heard from operate in a challenging and risky industry where nothing is a given. Your capital may be at risk and so you should talk to a professional financial advisor with a long-term positive track record because none of this was intended as financial advice. It was a general and impersonal conversation full of forward-looking statements. So please do note that visit zeterplus.ca to do your actual research. And thanks again to everyone for participating and thanks to everyone for watching and listening to resource talks.