The Market Is WRONG on Gold & Silver! | David Morgan
Summary
Copper & Electrification: Copper is framed as the backbone of electrification and AI, with irreplaceable wiring needs across EVs, data centers, and renewable infrastructure.
AI Data Centers: Massive power distribution and cooling demands from AI data centers translate into significant copper intensity beyond the facilities themselves.
Grid Expansion: The real bottleneck is transmission—new lines, substations, and redundancy require enormous copper, with permitting and build timelines far exceeding data center construction.
Supply Constraints: Declining grades, scarce discoveries, decade-long underinvestment, and long permitting windows underpin a structural copper shortage narrative.
Emerging Markets: Rising appliance ownership, air conditioning, vehicles, and urbanization in developing economies add persistent, non-AI copper demand.
Precious Metals: Gold and silver are seen consolidating through summer before potential year-end strength, with silver’s industrial demand and structural deficits highlighted.
Mining Equities: Despite record cash flows, dividends, and buybacks, miners lag due to market skepticism and ETF flow diversion, creating potential value opportunities.
Outlook & Risks: Expect summer doldrums and volatility; strategy favors core positions in quality miners, patience, and selective adds while recognizing permitting and sentiment risks.
Transcript
All of these stocks are underperforming. And the real answer, the best answer I can give you, Kai, is simply this. The market doesn't believe this rally is for real. Copper is trading near all-time highs. Doesn't that suggest that the economy is doing really, really well and the demand is growing and everything else as well? Or is it? Is Dr. copper still the truth indicator, the truth economic indicator that we all should lean on and focus on or has it lost its it's uh what do you call it its symbolism? Has it lost that? So, I've invited back David Morgan. David Morgan, you you ask, isn't he the silver guru? Yes, he is. Yes, he is. But I'm really curious what he thinks about the base metals starting a bit differently today. Of course, we'll talk about gold. We'll talk about silver. What do the recent price moves mean? Of course, we'll talk about that. But, uh, let let's start with Copper today. Before I switch over to my guest, though, quick, uh, you know, quick ask, quick, you know, hit that like and subscribe button. Helps us out with the algorithm. We tremendously appreciate it and thank you for it. Now, David threw everybody a curveball, but uh, here you are. Thank you so much for joining us, David. >> Well, Kai, thanks for having me back and appreciate the fact that, you know, we go off the silver train for a while. uh you know the Morgan reports looked at all you know all elements all minerals over the years and always has but uh a lot of people don't know that because they've never subscribed to the paid service and that's fine but you know my uh outlook is on resources and resources through uh the equity side primarily so you know stocks of you know copper companies lithium companies etc. So anyway, getting on the copper. Copper is the metal that proves electrif electrification is real. Everyone talks about the AIS, EVs, and data centers. Copper is a wiring behind all of it. You can substitute many materials, but copper remains very difficult to replace at scale. Every AI data center requires enormous amounts of copper for power distribution and cooling. If silver is the nervous system of the modern economy, copper would be the circulatory system. The supply problem is probably worse than most people think. Grades continue to decline globally. New discoveries are scarce and permitting timelines stretch anywhere from five to seven years and in some jurisdiction over 10. The industry has been underinvested for about a decade after the 2011 commodities peak. The copper industry is harvesting a crop it failed to plant 10 years ago. So now we're in a catchup. Major miners tell the big story. Kai got to look at BHP, Bulletin, Rio Tinto, and Glenor. They're spending billions. Let me repeat, billions chasing copper assets. Why? Because the shortage they see in quality deposits is apparent. Management teams vote with capital, not press releases. So they're spending money that tells the real story. I'll digress for a moment, but you know, any good journalist, I don't consider myself a journalist. I consider myself an analyst of metals. But regardless, call me what you will or call them what you will. Follow the money. And that usually gets you closer to the truth than almost any other methodology, but I'll come back for my digression. Copper is becoming strategic. Just as silver is added to the US critical minerals list, copper is increasingly viewed as strategic. It's not on the list. But national security intersects with mining. Countries are realizing that energy secure energy security requires copper. Go um grid expansion requires copper and defense systems require copper. So it's more than an economic story. And I would say copper and silver have a lot in common. uh they have the same forces electrification, AI, grid expansion and renewable infrastructure. So the demands are driven by many of the same principle issues that we have in a modern technological society. So I would say that uh in a way as a as a bit of a pun, copper and silver are two sides of the same electrification coin. And we can talk a little more on, you know, why the copper stocks haven't exploded even though copper's making a new high. Maybe go into a little bit more depth, but that's kind of my macro. >> No, I I appreciate that overview, David, because you know, lots of followup, lots of question marks. I'm really trying to understand, okay, what is copper signaling? Is it really just maybe the backend trade of the AI trade that we're seeing all the the capex spending? Of course, we'll need a lot of copper to go into the uh into the uh the A data centers and everything, but we all knew that, right? So, the question is like what what has changed? Why why is copper really accelerating here? And uh what does it indicate really like if you were to use it as an indicator, David? Well, first of all, you know, already what I I told you about, you know, great expansion and I don't know, I haven't looked at a number. I haven't read one and I probably could calculate it myself. I just thought of this, you know, we didn't rehearse this. What increase in power is required if the AI buildout goes to fruition? In other words, everything that's on the drawing board right now, that's a a thought for this whatever 67 acres in Utah or something like that. What percentage increase in electrification is that? Is it a 1% increase from the total we have now or is it a 10% increase? I don't have an answer for that. You might know what it is. I don't. But based on that increase that gives you a pretty good projection for how much copper will be required just in the data centers themselves but then you have to look at taking that power you know or the power to the data center if it's not built on site which many are I know a lot of you know natural gas plants are being built at these data centers regardless you got to look at not only the mountain data center. You're going to look at the e input and exit of the data center. In other words, where's the power coming from? Does it have to be put in through copper wire and the uh the idea of what the data centers provide that AI goes out you know a stream somewhere to computers around the world basis you know copper. So I think the grid expansion is the biggest story. Uh the real bottleneck is as I'm trying to stay is the the transmission. The US, Europe, India all need new transmission lines. Okay, check that more copper new substations. Oh yeah, you have to tear down the power from the max trans transformers into usable bites otherwise you'll blow out your house. You can't take that kind of power directly. So substations, grid updates, some are, you know, pass a or breaking down or vulnerable and and then uh grid redundancy. I mean, a lot of these things an AI system, you probably want it to be at least having one backup power-wise and maybe even output wise. If this uh pipe breaks down, I say pipe, I mean electrification. You might want a second one just in case. So for every one of those Every one of those bullet points requires an enormous amount of copper. A data center might be built in two years, but the transmission system could take far longer. And this is where the acceleration is occurring. >> So I'll pause there. Is there anything I need to clarify? >> No, I'm just just curious also about the stockpiling part, right? Like I'm really trying to understand, okay, where's also the ceiling for everything? If it's strategic, then price doesn't matter, of course, David. So I'm curious like where do you see a ceiling? Well, I would say the ceiling is probably um where the critical amount required, not you know copper investors, not anything just straight up supply demand for industry owner and of course they're always copper speculators because it's a commodity and you can trade it on the futures market. Barring that, I would say the price as a guess, and I'm not a copper expert. I don't study copper as hard as I study silver or gold. I'm looking probably for a dollar higher at least because what you have is a situation where looking ahead and if and I won't say if and only if, but if and that's pretty much guaranteed. We are going to build out at least most of these data centers and we have to rebuild some of the infrastructure that exists and the third world wants more energy. Everybody wants more energy. So on that basis, you know, I think the ceiling is above us. Uh can I give you a number? I said a buck. I'll stick to that. I don't know exactly. Could be far more. Could be I could be off. Could be peing now. I really doubt it. Um, so, uh, you know, I think people forget about the emerging market growth. Dwell on that a little bit more. I mean, more appliances, everybody wants a washer and dryer, more air condition, everybody wants to keep their environment, you know, more stable, cool it down when it's very hot. More vehicles, you know, those people want the freedom of their own transportation. More infrastructure and more urbanization. So copper demand is an almost an automatic that it's going to continue to rise. Historically, this has been probably one of the biggest drivers. And that's nothing to do with AI or new technology. That's just people bettering their lifestyle. More appliances, more air conditioning, more vehicles, and more infrastructure. >> Like how would you play it now, David? You mentioned the stocks aren't really reacting to the higher prices yet. Is that just the lag effect or uh like why why are they lagging behind? especially North American copper stocks. I own a few and I'm quite disappointed in uh the performance here. >> Well, we all are and that's basically how I make my living. I mean that people you know that like me or you know pay me. I mean it's based on you know some deep thinking on my editorials and looking ahead and trying to far the wheat from the chaff and all that stuff. But when you get right down to it is what do we find to be the most attractive stocks in the sector? you know, precious metals, copper, lithium, uranium, and what have you. So, all of these stocks are underperforming. And the real answer, the best answer I can give you, Kai, is simply this. The market doesn't believe this rally is for real. It's saying, "Oh, yeah, copper's hitting a new high and gold and silver, you know, gold got to 5,500 US. Come on, that's huge compared to where it was a couple years ago. Silver finally looked at 50 and waved goodbye. You know, we're sitting around 75 today. It's been over 100, 120. Yet, these stocks are performing as if silver's at 35 and gold's at 3500 and silver is at $35 an ounce and copper is acting as if we're, you know, sub copper. So, it's a non-belief. And yet the facts are, you know, we just wrote the last mortgage report published a couple days ago and the free cash flow in these companies is phenomenal. I mean, these are value stocks yet the market's still ignoring them. I don't have an answer as far as where I think you should go. Yeah, I think u I think the equities is where you go. I think you pick the best of the best and then you can add on some more speculative things once you have a core position and really powerful blue chips and then be patient because this market is giving you a gift right now but it it's hard to jump in when it's like well why isn't it you know it reminds me remember the big short and you know one of the secondary lenders I forget the name like countrywide financing or something blows up and it's on the front page of the major finan financial presses and you know major mortgage subprime blows up goes into bankruptcy and yet the bonds went the other direction and mur going what the heck how can this be the derivatives are not changing yet you just had you know a huge lender blow up it's kind of like that we have all proof of what the bottom line net cash flows are and It's in there for everyone to look at on a quarterly basis. it just got published by most majors and yet >> so I would say yes be bold you know >> and go in uh just an aside we have a copper play in Montana that I'm a part of and uh my mastermind members know about it but it's not public so it's certainly for an appetite for any general retail investor you had to be an AI to participate but um I've been savvy of the copper story now for a while and uh you know put my money where this I just want to make that clear that I'm just not giving you an academic look at it. Put some money fairly serious into this project. So I really do think the future's very bright for >> absolutely you just sort of touched on it. It might as well go there right now. Let's talk about sentiment in general like you threw in gold and silver miners I think as well. um like going into the summer now. Of course, there's a bit of seasonality, but it seems there's a bit of fatigue as well in the mining space perhaps. We've had a good run. Uh the generalists might be disappearing again. The space race is heating up. Uh SpaceX IPO here any day now, $1.8 trillion in valuation. So maybe the uh you know, the the spotlight is on other sectors right now. Like how do you categorize sentiment in general? Like um is is are we too distracted from what is actually really happening? You just mentioned record cash flows for example, record dividends, record buybacks, and yet the market is completely ignoring it. >> Yeah, I mean what we said, you just, you know, hit the nail on the head as usual, Kai. I mean, record cash flows yet sentiment towards precious metals and copper remain muted. I would say here's how I see it. Investors are emotionally scarred. you know, they saw the 2011 collapse, you know. So, when we saw silver get to 50, I told everybody privately, my private work and publicly shortly thereafter, it's going to stall out at 50. I don't think it's going to stall out for very long, but there are stale longs that held $50 silver from 1980. There's probably three people on the planet, but there's three out there. And there were a lot more than three, you know, at the 2011 top that bought at 40 4550ish. And now it's 2026, 2025, really. Uh to 2026. Well, okay. 2025, sorry. It hit 50 again. I bought it at 50. It's back at 50. I'm done. I waited all these years. I broke even. People like the psychology of I didn't lose. pencil that will stall out for a while and it did but not for very long. Um years of sideways action. I mean silver investors, even gold investors to degree are like this just keeps going sideways on and on and on. You know I coined the term silver will wear you out or scare you out. wear you out. These long sideways just going through a trading range and then these huge moves that if you're on the wrong side, you get scared to death. And if you're on the correct side, you're very, very happy. Um, repeated false breakouts. I mean, it's Lucy and the football with Charlie Brown, you know, Lionus, forget who's kicking, and you know, every time he gets to the ball, she pulls the ball out and thinks, "Oh, I'm not going to do it this time." So, they're gunshy. And that still has a bleed over even though as we speak silver's around 75 and gold's, you know, well in the 42 4,300 range, which is for anyone that's followed me for any length of time, we're in the profit zone on our equities and of course on our physical metal. But nonetheless, these false breakouts have scared people and just the constant disappointment from mining shares. And I attribute some of that, and I haven't talked about this, but the ETFs, I mean, the ETFs were a great idea for the financial industry because people wanted exposure to commodities, but you don't really want to trade futures. So, someone had the brilliant idea to make an ETF, which is a commodity, but it is a stock traded as a stock. The GLD is a stock. Get a, you know, position in the SLV or the GLD or the PSLV or any of these ETFs. You are owning shares in a stock. You are not owning the commodity per se. You're owning the derivative. But that was brilliant because most people don't want to be in the futures market, but they do have a Schwab or, you know, a merit trade, Scott trade, trade, you name it, account. They want to be able to press a button and buy stock. And so these ETFs have taken a great deal of money that would normally have gone into the mining shares into the pure play which well I don't know which silver stock's the best stock. I want to buy silver. I'll buy the ETF. So a lot of that money that would have gone into you know pneumont mining barrack silver standard silver standards been changed but pan-American silver wheat and now silver wheat and precious metals all those company BHP RTZ all those it's being diverted into these ETFs. So that's a big factor that people usually don't consider or talk about. Maybe they consider it. But that I'd say, you know, you're going to pin me down and I'm, you know, an expert witness, put that in quotes for the industry and they put me on the stand and say, what is the number one reason we're not seeing, you know, share appreciation in these companies as did in the 70s? I'd say because it's been diverted to ETFs. >> Yeah. Now, well, the other thing is was the volatility in the stock. Just today I think silver was down 2.3 2.4%. Seems to be a normal move these days uh on a daily basis but the stocks like I was looking at an APA silver and a gold we have them in our fund. So full disclaimer I'm a bit biased obviously there for obvious reasons but the stocks were down 6% 7%. Like there were there was a fire sale going on and I was like what what is happening? Like what what are we missing right? Is this just clearing the house before the summer? Like I'm starting to make sense and I can't come up with a a solid answer. Maybe you can help me, David. But I I'm I'm not getting anywhere. >> Well, you know, historically they have led. I mean, the the miners have led many times, but this time, this cycle, we're seeing that gold is moving first, silver has followed, and the miners are lagging badly. Many investors are looking at their mining portfolios and thinking, if this is a real bull market, why aren't my stocks acting like it? And this creates skepticism and you know it's like well if it's not going to do anything why should I be in this company um you know technology still dominates the attention of the general market. You know, everyone talked on AI, semiconductors, software, and crypto even. So, resources are still a very, very small allocation with institutional portfolios, but as I've said in the past, Kai, I don't think they can ignore it forever because when they run their data streams, they're looking for value plays, many, not all, but it can't help but pop up and show what these earnings are. And those earnings are robust. So the average portfolio manager knows far more about Nvidia than they'll ever know about silver. But I still think it's an important place to be. I like to value this. I like to know I'm buying that >> gold in the ground at, >> you know, 3500 or when gold's at $1,000 higher. You know, I'm getting a gift. Now, could I be wrong and the market never respond? The answer is possibly. And I, you know, I'm old enough and seasoned enough I have had like I'll just make a number that's pretty accurate like six gold stocks and you know four of them were majors and two were mid tiers in the last bull market and you know only five out of the six went up and there's no reason there's nothing more frustrating than being the right sector watching the sector go higher and having a stock in that sector doesn't perform I mean it's so frustrating but it can happen and So, I'll give it back to you, but I would just say stay with your conviction. And like Aubra, we have that as a recommendation. We love that company. They just put out a new press release and they're just doing better than ever. I mean, almost anytime they put out press release, they got better grades and more metal. I mean, what could be better for a mining company? And yet the news just seems to go over everyone's heads, you know, and you know, I mean, it's just ridiculous to see, you know, silver down 2% in that stock down six. But we do have leverage in them and that's why we're in the mining sector. I mean, if silver goes up doubles, then most these better silver companies will go up about 2x on that or 3x on that. So if you get a 30% move in silver, you usually get a 90% move in the underlying equities, but you know that's sort of the talk in my book. I'll look you in and say that, but it's also uh factual. But now it's not as factual. So it's frustrating. I don't know what else to say. >> Now it's getting interesting like more and more voices on our channel are saying the market is wrong. And I don't think I've ever had that, right? Usually it's like, oh, the market is doing okay. It's just a sentiment thing. But now the market is wrong. Like you're not the first one. You sort of said it directly here as well. Lobotigra and others just to just to say it, but uh the voices are getting louder that the market is wrong. So we're getting more of the Michael Bur the big short kind of situation where it's time to bet against the market and come out ahead and and win bigly, right? So um yeah, using that term. Um David, but we do have to talk about the precious metals though. I know we touched on the price action a little bit, but I'm just curious like if you look at the daily chart today, like gold at about uh actually, you know what? Let me pull it up real quick. Um we're at $4450 earlier today. I just want to give you the exact number here for gold. 4436. Okay, so not much has changed, but silver at $732 right now. Um because I know we get a lot of flack if you don't mention the current prices when we record this because people apparently trade off of the interviews here. David, they should never do that by the way. like very bad advice to do that. Um, but the point is though, David, like if you look at the charts as as they are right now, what what are they telling you? Where do you see support? Um, are you more bullish, pessimistic, like where are things headed? >> I'm uh neutral. Just maybe slightly pessimistic. I mean, I've been writing for the last three months that I saw well since I was. So, yeah, that's about right. February on that gold and silver were in a consolidation phase and look for a broad trading range for both metals through the summer. Summer starts in you know another 20 days or so 21st of June. So we have June, July, August into September and then after Labor Day probably got a pop. That's what happened last year um with gold. Gold consolidated through the summer while platinum and silver took off. This year, I think they're all going to go sideways. And it's just kind of that wear you out phase. Ho hom. Probably the shares will have similar patterns. Just kind of mosy along. Not really moving up or down, just up and down every day. Up one day, down the next. So, that's where I see it going. Now longer term for this year I think post September think October, November, December we may see and I believe we will see some more input into the metals and it will be for a variety of reasons that already exist. It's just a market sentiment has changed from hoham I don't care to oh I need this metal again or I need a hedge again or you know risk on risk off whatever it is I need you know I need gold I need silver I need you know copper so I'm looking at it that way I mean uh I prepared a little bit of thoughts for the interview one is that uh Ted Butler who works with me writes the uh silver section for in gold we trust testimony still follow his publication and uh you know it's a bit of an honor in a way that you know he's part of my team and also noted enough of a silver analyst to write that report and in his most recent publication in that report you know we talk about gold is owned because people want it but silver is being purchased because industry can't function without it are there silver investors of course there are But um silver's primarily these days and has been for several for the last decade or more been driven more by industrial demand than it has. The margin is of course investment demand that es and flows. Sometimes it's very strong and the price moves up. Sometimes people say, "Oh, it's $50 silver. I'm going to sell it off and it's $100 silver. I'm going to sell it off and that type of thing." But the structural deficits aren't going away. And the above ground inventories matter more than the mine supply. So we're still seeing a good backdrop for silver longer term and gold. Of course, money of last resort. There's, you know, no fever like gold fever. People are resting right now. The markets are paused, but it doesn't mean the hint story is here yet. >> Is it is it paused for the summer? Which is sort of my next question. And like talk about seasonality here like it is June 3rd. I feel like just looking at my outlook inbox, people are gone already. I know it's a short week in Germany right now or parts of Germany. I know a lot of people are at a conference in uh in in Canada right now, but what what is happening? It seems like people have disappeared already for the summer. Like what what should we expect here in terms of like volatility volumes? Um what what is your expectation here, David? >> Well, the normal seasonality as you outlined, Kai, you're correct. You know, normally it's the summer dolddons for the precious metal. Many of the trading desks kind of lighten up. Many people, especially Europeans, are take longer vacation than Americans. And there's just no one there manning the ship. It's like, you know, I'm not working right now and I'm not at the gold desk. And that's habitual. That's been going on for a long time now. Occasionally the seasonality doesn't work out and we get a big rally during the summer, but in most cases we don't. I think this year is the same. It's going to be uh summer doldrums even though there might be some real oneoff problems in Ukraine or in Iran or you know some other place in a financial market. And I said well why isn't gold reacting? The answer is because it's not. I mean I know that sounds silly but it is. It's just the fact that there isn't a lot of interest during the summer for the medals and I think this year we will see that again. >> No, fantastic, David. I think that puts a bow around our conversation here. Um, tremendously appreciate your time as always and I know you got the domain here in your title, but besides the morganreport.com, I know you're quite active on X as well. Is that is that a good way to reach out to you there? >> I think the best way really because, you know, I call it web 1.0. I'm used to, you know, post the news on my website. >> And that was really tedious. You know, I was up at 6:00 a.m. every day looking at all the financial news, but primarily news on the medals. And I would post and sometimes the URL URLs were in the background, but the the title of the article would be longer than I had space on my website. So I would have to think up a better a title that was covering the subject not distorting it and fitting in anyway it's very cumbersome now I say you should read this this and this and it's a matter of you know a repost or finding clicking a URL it's a matter of seconds any time of the day but I do post a lot of stuff that I don't necessarily agree with I think that's important to voice so let thanks for letting me have an extra couple of minutes because some of it I post what I call for the record And it'll be someone saying, you know, gold will never go above 4,000 the ounce. And I can go back and say, well, you know, Bloomberg was wrong here. I'm not saying Bloomberg said that, but XYZ publication said that. Look, now we're at, you know, 5500. That type of thing because a lot of times, >> do do you keep score of people? Like, do you >> I don't do that very often in my head, but I'm not I'm not a person that gets better >> or Jim Kramer is the anti-indicator, right? So people is like, "Yep, he writes about gold. We're going the other way. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, I I I really find it immature to be gleeful over someone's misfortune. You know, there are a lot of people that seem in my opinion seem to be delighted that someone had a failure or their investment didn't work out or, you know, that to me is is adolescence. You know, when you're a teenager, maybe you're in that mindset of I'm better than you and trying to prove it. I, you know, that left me, you know, past my teenage years. I I'm, you know, I'm happy with other people that I know succeed. I'm happy if they make a big score. I'm happy if they took a lot off the table in the silver market or whatever. And I'm not happy if they have, you know, something that hurts them or puts a setback on them. I'm just I'm empathetic. I'm compassionate. But the point is, there's a lot of people that just seem to really get some joy out of other people's failures. I don't know why that is, but >> and they often hide behind names nobody can identify. They're sitting, you know, somewhere and uh trying to cope with what they're up to in their lives, you know. >> It's not like, oh, you know, I told you so. I I've never said I've told you so that I can recall, >> but I do like to be vindicated because the fact is I've told people, look, if you're modest means, just stack silver on a, you know, daily, weekly, monthly, semianual basis. and just use that as your savings account. If anyone followed those instructions from the 10 rules of silver investing I published back in probably 19 well not 99 but probably 2001 or something and just stacked silver never bought a silver stock never had a stock account just was a modest means but believed in the story of honest money and what happens in great inflations they're very happy right now >> you know and there's more than one out there because I do get letters from them or emails or thank you cards or whatever. I'm not making it about me. I'm making it about the message. The message is fiat fails, saving real money, and over the long term, you'll be happy. And that message is provided by you, by me, by many, many in our, you know, in our peer group that talk about the reason you invest in these markets is to hedge the inevitability that we're being lied to about how robust the financial system is when it's really breaking down our in front of us. And yet we have so much hype and dismissed information concocted by the mainstream media, the mainstream financial press that most people are gleefully running around thinking, "Well, the S&P just hit a new high. I feel great. I feel wealthy. I feel secure." And unfortunately, they're deluding themselves. >> No, I fully I fully agree. You got to look, you know, outside like in German we say outside just telegs. You got to look outside the the your own plate, meaning you got to look outside your bubble is probably the the the euphemism I'm looking for here, David. And you're absolutely right. And it does feel good to be vindicated and to be right sometimes. You know, we don't have to do the dance or everything, but it does feel good to be right. >> Well, help people. That's the thing. It's like, look, you believed in, you know, me. You believed in the message. It's not about me. It's about the message is fiat fails, saving real metal. That's the message. Many of us give that message. But now we're vindicated. we are vindicated because the message is correct and that's my point you know it's not about the mortgage report it's not about you know Kai Hoffman and brother you're doing a great job and you know sincerely mean that but you know we have a main purpose I think that others in the financial sector really don't I think a lot in the financial sector about being smart or looking good or picking a good stock or being you know Jim Kramer or whatever it might be but it's all based on personality rather than principle we're working on a principle that money fails if it's fiat. That's the principle that's behind our move. And I think that's far more powerful than, you know, who's the best looking or who's got the best stock picks from last year in my >> I just want to be Pelosi and Trump. That's all I care about. You know, >> as long as I'm trading better than these two, then I'm I'm doing fine. Although, I'm at a massive disadvantage. But, uh, what what what do I know? Morgan David, tremendously appreciate your time as always. Um, thanks so much for coming on so financially. We'll have to do this again right after the summer. Can't wait to do this here in early September. See where we're at, whether we weathered the storm here in the precious metals because I think it'll be an interesting summer to be honest. So, um or yeah, I think it'll be interesting to be honest. I'm not sure that the the the flatlining will continue. So, we'll see where it goes. >> I'd be happy to be wrong. It'd be great to come back in September. Thank you. >> Absolutely, David. Thank you so much. And to everybody else, you you heard David's words, of course. like you everybody has their own reasons for investing in the precious metals of course but uh if you want to be a happy investor make sure you put something aside outside of the system and uh I think it is heating up the SpaceX IPO for example is this just the top is this the top raising 75 billion Google just raised 80 billion although they're cash flowing 175 billion a year as well um that the capital needs are insane right now is the payoff even there or are we seeing the internet bubble 2.0 know in front of our eyes and we can just follow it on a daily basis on a minutely basis actually. So be be careful out there. Um you know cover yourselves and uh don't let emotions run your investments for you. That's the most important one. Take care and uh be safe.
The Market Is WRONG on Gold & Silver! | David Morgan
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All of these stocks are underperforming. And the real answer, the best answer I can give you, Kai, is simply this. The market doesn't believe this rally is for real. Copper is trading near all-time highs. Doesn't that suggest that the economy is doing really, really well and the demand is growing and everything else as well? Or is it? Is Dr. copper still the truth indicator, the truth economic indicator that we all should lean on and focus on or has it lost its it's uh what do you call it its symbolism? Has it lost that? So, I've invited back David Morgan. David Morgan, you you ask, isn't he the silver guru? Yes, he is. Yes, he is. But I'm really curious what he thinks about the base metals starting a bit differently today. Of course, we'll talk about gold. We'll talk about silver. What do the recent price moves mean? Of course, we'll talk about that. But, uh, let let's start with Copper today. Before I switch over to my guest, though, quick, uh, you know, quick ask, quick, you know, hit that like and subscribe button. Helps us out with the algorithm. We tremendously appreciate it and thank you for it. Now, David threw everybody a curveball, but uh, here you are. Thank you so much for joining us, David. >> Well, Kai, thanks for having me back and appreciate the fact that, you know, we go off the silver train for a while. uh you know the Morgan reports looked at all you know all elements all minerals over the years and always has but uh a lot of people don't know that because they've never subscribed to the paid service and that's fine but you know my uh outlook is on resources and resources through uh the equity side primarily so you know stocks of you know copper companies lithium companies etc. So anyway, getting on the copper. Copper is the metal that proves electrif electrification is real. Everyone talks about the AIS, EVs, and data centers. Copper is a wiring behind all of it. You can substitute many materials, but copper remains very difficult to replace at scale. Every AI data center requires enormous amounts of copper for power distribution and cooling. If silver is the nervous system of the modern economy, copper would be the circulatory system. The supply problem is probably worse than most people think. Grades continue to decline globally. New discoveries are scarce and permitting timelines stretch anywhere from five to seven years and in some jurisdiction over 10. The industry has been underinvested for about a decade after the 2011 commodities peak. The copper industry is harvesting a crop it failed to plant 10 years ago. So now we're in a catchup. Major miners tell the big story. Kai got to look at BHP, Bulletin, Rio Tinto, and Glenor. They're spending billions. Let me repeat, billions chasing copper assets. Why? Because the shortage they see in quality deposits is apparent. Management teams vote with capital, not press releases. So they're spending money that tells the real story. I'll digress for a moment, but you know, any good journalist, I don't consider myself a journalist. I consider myself an analyst of metals. But regardless, call me what you will or call them what you will. Follow the money. And that usually gets you closer to the truth than almost any other methodology, but I'll come back for my digression. Copper is becoming strategic. Just as silver is added to the US critical minerals list, copper is increasingly viewed as strategic. It's not on the list. But national security intersects with mining. Countries are realizing that energy secure energy security requires copper. Go um grid expansion requires copper and defense systems require copper. So it's more than an economic story. And I would say copper and silver have a lot in common. uh they have the same forces electrification, AI, grid expansion and renewable infrastructure. So the demands are driven by many of the same principle issues that we have in a modern technological society. So I would say that uh in a way as a as a bit of a pun, copper and silver are two sides of the same electrification coin. And we can talk a little more on, you know, why the copper stocks haven't exploded even though copper's making a new high. Maybe go into a little bit more depth, but that's kind of my macro. >> No, I I appreciate that overview, David, because you know, lots of followup, lots of question marks. I'm really trying to understand, okay, what is copper signaling? Is it really just maybe the backend trade of the AI trade that we're seeing all the the capex spending? Of course, we'll need a lot of copper to go into the uh into the uh the A data centers and everything, but we all knew that, right? So, the question is like what what has changed? Why why is copper really accelerating here? And uh what does it indicate really like if you were to use it as an indicator, David? Well, first of all, you know, already what I I told you about, you know, great expansion and I don't know, I haven't looked at a number. I haven't read one and I probably could calculate it myself. I just thought of this, you know, we didn't rehearse this. What increase in power is required if the AI buildout goes to fruition? In other words, everything that's on the drawing board right now, that's a a thought for this whatever 67 acres in Utah or something like that. What percentage increase in electrification is that? Is it a 1% increase from the total we have now or is it a 10% increase? I don't have an answer for that. You might know what it is. I don't. But based on that increase that gives you a pretty good projection for how much copper will be required just in the data centers themselves but then you have to look at taking that power you know or the power to the data center if it's not built on site which many are I know a lot of you know natural gas plants are being built at these data centers regardless you got to look at not only the mountain data center. You're going to look at the e input and exit of the data center. In other words, where's the power coming from? Does it have to be put in through copper wire and the uh the idea of what the data centers provide that AI goes out you know a stream somewhere to computers around the world basis you know copper. So I think the grid expansion is the biggest story. Uh the real bottleneck is as I'm trying to stay is the the transmission. The US, Europe, India all need new transmission lines. Okay, check that more copper new substations. Oh yeah, you have to tear down the power from the max trans transformers into usable bites otherwise you'll blow out your house. You can't take that kind of power directly. So substations, grid updates, some are, you know, pass a or breaking down or vulnerable and and then uh grid redundancy. I mean, a lot of these things an AI system, you probably want it to be at least having one backup power-wise and maybe even output wise. If this uh pipe breaks down, I say pipe, I mean electrification. You might want a second one just in case. So for every one of those Every one of those bullet points requires an enormous amount of copper. A data center might be built in two years, but the transmission system could take far longer. And this is where the acceleration is occurring. >> So I'll pause there. Is there anything I need to clarify? >> No, I'm just just curious also about the stockpiling part, right? Like I'm really trying to understand, okay, where's also the ceiling for everything? If it's strategic, then price doesn't matter, of course, David. So I'm curious like where do you see a ceiling? Well, I would say the ceiling is probably um where the critical amount required, not you know copper investors, not anything just straight up supply demand for industry owner and of course they're always copper speculators because it's a commodity and you can trade it on the futures market. Barring that, I would say the price as a guess, and I'm not a copper expert. I don't study copper as hard as I study silver or gold. I'm looking probably for a dollar higher at least because what you have is a situation where looking ahead and if and I won't say if and only if, but if and that's pretty much guaranteed. We are going to build out at least most of these data centers and we have to rebuild some of the infrastructure that exists and the third world wants more energy. Everybody wants more energy. So on that basis, you know, I think the ceiling is above us. Uh can I give you a number? I said a buck. I'll stick to that. I don't know exactly. Could be far more. Could be I could be off. Could be peing now. I really doubt it. Um, so, uh, you know, I think people forget about the emerging market growth. Dwell on that a little bit more. I mean, more appliances, everybody wants a washer and dryer, more air condition, everybody wants to keep their environment, you know, more stable, cool it down when it's very hot. More vehicles, you know, those people want the freedom of their own transportation. More infrastructure and more urbanization. So copper demand is an almost an automatic that it's going to continue to rise. Historically, this has been probably one of the biggest drivers. And that's nothing to do with AI or new technology. That's just people bettering their lifestyle. More appliances, more air conditioning, more vehicles, and more infrastructure. >> Like how would you play it now, David? You mentioned the stocks aren't really reacting to the higher prices yet. Is that just the lag effect or uh like why why are they lagging behind? especially North American copper stocks. I own a few and I'm quite disappointed in uh the performance here. >> Well, we all are and that's basically how I make my living. I mean that people you know that like me or you know pay me. I mean it's based on you know some deep thinking on my editorials and looking ahead and trying to far the wheat from the chaff and all that stuff. But when you get right down to it is what do we find to be the most attractive stocks in the sector? you know, precious metals, copper, lithium, uranium, and what have you. So, all of these stocks are underperforming. And the real answer, the best answer I can give you, Kai, is simply this. The market doesn't believe this rally is for real. It's saying, "Oh, yeah, copper's hitting a new high and gold and silver, you know, gold got to 5,500 US. Come on, that's huge compared to where it was a couple years ago. Silver finally looked at 50 and waved goodbye. You know, we're sitting around 75 today. It's been over 100, 120. Yet, these stocks are performing as if silver's at 35 and gold's at 3500 and silver is at $35 an ounce and copper is acting as if we're, you know, sub copper. So, it's a non-belief. And yet the facts are, you know, we just wrote the last mortgage report published a couple days ago and the free cash flow in these companies is phenomenal. I mean, these are value stocks yet the market's still ignoring them. I don't have an answer as far as where I think you should go. Yeah, I think u I think the equities is where you go. I think you pick the best of the best and then you can add on some more speculative things once you have a core position and really powerful blue chips and then be patient because this market is giving you a gift right now but it it's hard to jump in when it's like well why isn't it you know it reminds me remember the big short and you know one of the secondary lenders I forget the name like countrywide financing or something blows up and it's on the front page of the major finan financial presses and you know major mortgage subprime blows up goes into bankruptcy and yet the bonds went the other direction and mur going what the heck how can this be the derivatives are not changing yet you just had you know a huge lender blow up it's kind of like that we have all proof of what the bottom line net cash flows are and It's in there for everyone to look at on a quarterly basis. it just got published by most majors and yet >> so I would say yes be bold you know >> and go in uh just an aside we have a copper play in Montana that I'm a part of and uh my mastermind members know about it but it's not public so it's certainly for an appetite for any general retail investor you had to be an AI to participate but um I've been savvy of the copper story now for a while and uh you know put my money where this I just want to make that clear that I'm just not giving you an academic look at it. Put some money fairly serious into this project. So I really do think the future's very bright for >> absolutely you just sort of touched on it. It might as well go there right now. Let's talk about sentiment in general like you threw in gold and silver miners I think as well. um like going into the summer now. Of course, there's a bit of seasonality, but it seems there's a bit of fatigue as well in the mining space perhaps. We've had a good run. Uh the generalists might be disappearing again. The space race is heating up. Uh SpaceX IPO here any day now, $1.8 trillion in valuation. So maybe the uh you know, the the spotlight is on other sectors right now. Like how do you categorize sentiment in general? Like um is is are we too distracted from what is actually really happening? You just mentioned record cash flows for example, record dividends, record buybacks, and yet the market is completely ignoring it. >> Yeah, I mean what we said, you just, you know, hit the nail on the head as usual, Kai. I mean, record cash flows yet sentiment towards precious metals and copper remain muted. I would say here's how I see it. Investors are emotionally scarred. you know, they saw the 2011 collapse, you know. So, when we saw silver get to 50, I told everybody privately, my private work and publicly shortly thereafter, it's going to stall out at 50. I don't think it's going to stall out for very long, but there are stale longs that held $50 silver from 1980. There's probably three people on the planet, but there's three out there. And there were a lot more than three, you know, at the 2011 top that bought at 40 4550ish. And now it's 2026, 2025, really. Uh to 2026. Well, okay. 2025, sorry. It hit 50 again. I bought it at 50. It's back at 50. I'm done. I waited all these years. I broke even. People like the psychology of I didn't lose. pencil that will stall out for a while and it did but not for very long. Um years of sideways action. I mean silver investors, even gold investors to degree are like this just keeps going sideways on and on and on. You know I coined the term silver will wear you out or scare you out. wear you out. These long sideways just going through a trading range and then these huge moves that if you're on the wrong side, you get scared to death. And if you're on the correct side, you're very, very happy. Um, repeated false breakouts. I mean, it's Lucy and the football with Charlie Brown, you know, Lionus, forget who's kicking, and you know, every time he gets to the ball, she pulls the ball out and thinks, "Oh, I'm not going to do it this time." So, they're gunshy. And that still has a bleed over even though as we speak silver's around 75 and gold's, you know, well in the 42 4,300 range, which is for anyone that's followed me for any length of time, we're in the profit zone on our equities and of course on our physical metal. But nonetheless, these false breakouts have scared people and just the constant disappointment from mining shares. And I attribute some of that, and I haven't talked about this, but the ETFs, I mean, the ETFs were a great idea for the financial industry because people wanted exposure to commodities, but you don't really want to trade futures. So, someone had the brilliant idea to make an ETF, which is a commodity, but it is a stock traded as a stock. The GLD is a stock. Get a, you know, position in the SLV or the GLD or the PSLV or any of these ETFs. You are owning shares in a stock. You are not owning the commodity per se. You're owning the derivative. But that was brilliant because most people don't want to be in the futures market, but they do have a Schwab or, you know, a merit trade, Scott trade, trade, you name it, account. They want to be able to press a button and buy stock. And so these ETFs have taken a great deal of money that would normally have gone into the mining shares into the pure play which well I don't know which silver stock's the best stock. I want to buy silver. I'll buy the ETF. So a lot of that money that would have gone into you know pneumont mining barrack silver standard silver standards been changed but pan-American silver wheat and now silver wheat and precious metals all those company BHP RTZ all those it's being diverted into these ETFs. So that's a big factor that people usually don't consider or talk about. Maybe they consider it. But that I'd say, you know, you're going to pin me down and I'm, you know, an expert witness, put that in quotes for the industry and they put me on the stand and say, what is the number one reason we're not seeing, you know, share appreciation in these companies as did in the 70s? I'd say because it's been diverted to ETFs. >> Yeah. Now, well, the other thing is was the volatility in the stock. Just today I think silver was down 2.3 2.4%. Seems to be a normal move these days uh on a daily basis but the stocks like I was looking at an APA silver and a gold we have them in our fund. So full disclaimer I'm a bit biased obviously there for obvious reasons but the stocks were down 6% 7%. Like there were there was a fire sale going on and I was like what what is happening? Like what what are we missing right? Is this just clearing the house before the summer? Like I'm starting to make sense and I can't come up with a a solid answer. Maybe you can help me, David. But I I'm I'm not getting anywhere. >> Well, you know, historically they have led. I mean, the the miners have led many times, but this time, this cycle, we're seeing that gold is moving first, silver has followed, and the miners are lagging badly. Many investors are looking at their mining portfolios and thinking, if this is a real bull market, why aren't my stocks acting like it? And this creates skepticism and you know it's like well if it's not going to do anything why should I be in this company um you know technology still dominates the attention of the general market. You know, everyone talked on AI, semiconductors, software, and crypto even. So, resources are still a very, very small allocation with institutional portfolios, but as I've said in the past, Kai, I don't think they can ignore it forever because when they run their data streams, they're looking for value plays, many, not all, but it can't help but pop up and show what these earnings are. And those earnings are robust. So the average portfolio manager knows far more about Nvidia than they'll ever know about silver. But I still think it's an important place to be. I like to value this. I like to know I'm buying that >> gold in the ground at, >> you know, 3500 or when gold's at $1,000 higher. You know, I'm getting a gift. Now, could I be wrong and the market never respond? The answer is possibly. And I, you know, I'm old enough and seasoned enough I have had like I'll just make a number that's pretty accurate like six gold stocks and you know four of them were majors and two were mid tiers in the last bull market and you know only five out of the six went up and there's no reason there's nothing more frustrating than being the right sector watching the sector go higher and having a stock in that sector doesn't perform I mean it's so frustrating but it can happen and So, I'll give it back to you, but I would just say stay with your conviction. And like Aubra, we have that as a recommendation. We love that company. They just put out a new press release and they're just doing better than ever. I mean, almost anytime they put out press release, they got better grades and more metal. I mean, what could be better for a mining company? And yet the news just seems to go over everyone's heads, you know, and you know, I mean, it's just ridiculous to see, you know, silver down 2% in that stock down six. But we do have leverage in them and that's why we're in the mining sector. I mean, if silver goes up doubles, then most these better silver companies will go up about 2x on that or 3x on that. So if you get a 30% move in silver, you usually get a 90% move in the underlying equities, but you know that's sort of the talk in my book. I'll look you in and say that, but it's also uh factual. But now it's not as factual. So it's frustrating. I don't know what else to say. >> Now it's getting interesting like more and more voices on our channel are saying the market is wrong. And I don't think I've ever had that, right? Usually it's like, oh, the market is doing okay. It's just a sentiment thing. But now the market is wrong. Like you're not the first one. You sort of said it directly here as well. Lobotigra and others just to just to say it, but uh the voices are getting louder that the market is wrong. So we're getting more of the Michael Bur the big short kind of situation where it's time to bet against the market and come out ahead and and win bigly, right? So um yeah, using that term. Um David, but we do have to talk about the precious metals though. I know we touched on the price action a little bit, but I'm just curious like if you look at the daily chart today, like gold at about uh actually, you know what? Let me pull it up real quick. Um we're at $4450 earlier today. I just want to give you the exact number here for gold. 4436. Okay, so not much has changed, but silver at $732 right now. Um because I know we get a lot of flack if you don't mention the current prices when we record this because people apparently trade off of the interviews here. David, they should never do that by the way. like very bad advice to do that. Um, but the point is though, David, like if you look at the charts as as they are right now, what what are they telling you? Where do you see support? Um, are you more bullish, pessimistic, like where are things headed? >> I'm uh neutral. Just maybe slightly pessimistic. I mean, I've been writing for the last three months that I saw well since I was. So, yeah, that's about right. February on that gold and silver were in a consolidation phase and look for a broad trading range for both metals through the summer. Summer starts in you know another 20 days or so 21st of June. So we have June, July, August into September and then after Labor Day probably got a pop. That's what happened last year um with gold. Gold consolidated through the summer while platinum and silver took off. This year, I think they're all going to go sideways. And it's just kind of that wear you out phase. Ho hom. Probably the shares will have similar patterns. Just kind of mosy along. Not really moving up or down, just up and down every day. Up one day, down the next. So, that's where I see it going. Now longer term for this year I think post September think October, November, December we may see and I believe we will see some more input into the metals and it will be for a variety of reasons that already exist. It's just a market sentiment has changed from hoham I don't care to oh I need this metal again or I need a hedge again or you know risk on risk off whatever it is I need you know I need gold I need silver I need you know copper so I'm looking at it that way I mean uh I prepared a little bit of thoughts for the interview one is that uh Ted Butler who works with me writes the uh silver section for in gold we trust testimony still follow his publication and uh you know it's a bit of an honor in a way that you know he's part of my team and also noted enough of a silver analyst to write that report and in his most recent publication in that report you know we talk about gold is owned because people want it but silver is being purchased because industry can't function without it are there silver investors of course there are But um silver's primarily these days and has been for several for the last decade or more been driven more by industrial demand than it has. The margin is of course investment demand that es and flows. Sometimes it's very strong and the price moves up. Sometimes people say, "Oh, it's $50 silver. I'm going to sell it off and it's $100 silver. I'm going to sell it off and that type of thing." But the structural deficits aren't going away. And the above ground inventories matter more than the mine supply. So we're still seeing a good backdrop for silver longer term and gold. Of course, money of last resort. There's, you know, no fever like gold fever. People are resting right now. The markets are paused, but it doesn't mean the hint story is here yet. >> Is it is it paused for the summer? Which is sort of my next question. And like talk about seasonality here like it is June 3rd. I feel like just looking at my outlook inbox, people are gone already. I know it's a short week in Germany right now or parts of Germany. I know a lot of people are at a conference in uh in in Canada right now, but what what is happening? It seems like people have disappeared already for the summer. Like what what should we expect here in terms of like volatility volumes? Um what what is your expectation here, David? >> Well, the normal seasonality as you outlined, Kai, you're correct. You know, normally it's the summer dolddons for the precious metal. Many of the trading desks kind of lighten up. Many people, especially Europeans, are take longer vacation than Americans. And there's just no one there manning the ship. It's like, you know, I'm not working right now and I'm not at the gold desk. And that's habitual. That's been going on for a long time now. Occasionally the seasonality doesn't work out and we get a big rally during the summer, but in most cases we don't. I think this year is the same. It's going to be uh summer doldrums even though there might be some real oneoff problems in Ukraine or in Iran or you know some other place in a financial market. And I said well why isn't gold reacting? The answer is because it's not. I mean I know that sounds silly but it is. It's just the fact that there isn't a lot of interest during the summer for the medals and I think this year we will see that again. >> No, fantastic, David. I think that puts a bow around our conversation here. Um, tremendously appreciate your time as always and I know you got the domain here in your title, but besides the morganreport.com, I know you're quite active on X as well. Is that is that a good way to reach out to you there? >> I think the best way really because, you know, I call it web 1.0. I'm used to, you know, post the news on my website. >> And that was really tedious. You know, I was up at 6:00 a.m. every day looking at all the financial news, but primarily news on the medals. And I would post and sometimes the URL URLs were in the background, but the the title of the article would be longer than I had space on my website. So I would have to think up a better a title that was covering the subject not distorting it and fitting in anyway it's very cumbersome now I say you should read this this and this and it's a matter of you know a repost or finding clicking a URL it's a matter of seconds any time of the day but I do post a lot of stuff that I don't necessarily agree with I think that's important to voice so let thanks for letting me have an extra couple of minutes because some of it I post what I call for the record And it'll be someone saying, you know, gold will never go above 4,000 the ounce. And I can go back and say, well, you know, Bloomberg was wrong here. I'm not saying Bloomberg said that, but XYZ publication said that. Look, now we're at, you know, 5500. That type of thing because a lot of times, >> do do you keep score of people? Like, do you >> I don't do that very often in my head, but I'm not I'm not a person that gets better >> or Jim Kramer is the anti-indicator, right? So people is like, "Yep, he writes about gold. We're going the other way. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, I I I really find it immature to be gleeful over someone's misfortune. You know, there are a lot of people that seem in my opinion seem to be delighted that someone had a failure or their investment didn't work out or, you know, that to me is is adolescence. You know, when you're a teenager, maybe you're in that mindset of I'm better than you and trying to prove it. I, you know, that left me, you know, past my teenage years. I I'm, you know, I'm happy with other people that I know succeed. I'm happy if they make a big score. I'm happy if they took a lot off the table in the silver market or whatever. And I'm not happy if they have, you know, something that hurts them or puts a setback on them. I'm just I'm empathetic. I'm compassionate. But the point is, there's a lot of people that just seem to really get some joy out of other people's failures. I don't know why that is, but >> and they often hide behind names nobody can identify. They're sitting, you know, somewhere and uh trying to cope with what they're up to in their lives, you know. >> It's not like, oh, you know, I told you so. I I've never said I've told you so that I can recall, >> but I do like to be vindicated because the fact is I've told people, look, if you're modest means, just stack silver on a, you know, daily, weekly, monthly, semianual basis. and just use that as your savings account. If anyone followed those instructions from the 10 rules of silver investing I published back in probably 19 well not 99 but probably 2001 or something and just stacked silver never bought a silver stock never had a stock account just was a modest means but believed in the story of honest money and what happens in great inflations they're very happy right now >> you know and there's more than one out there because I do get letters from them or emails or thank you cards or whatever. I'm not making it about me. I'm making it about the message. The message is fiat fails, saving real money, and over the long term, you'll be happy. And that message is provided by you, by me, by many, many in our, you know, in our peer group that talk about the reason you invest in these markets is to hedge the inevitability that we're being lied to about how robust the financial system is when it's really breaking down our in front of us. And yet we have so much hype and dismissed information concocted by the mainstream media, the mainstream financial press that most people are gleefully running around thinking, "Well, the S&P just hit a new high. I feel great. I feel wealthy. I feel secure." And unfortunately, they're deluding themselves. >> No, I fully I fully agree. You got to look, you know, outside like in German we say outside just telegs. You got to look outside the the your own plate, meaning you got to look outside your bubble is probably the the the euphemism I'm looking for here, David. And you're absolutely right. And it does feel good to be vindicated and to be right sometimes. You know, we don't have to do the dance or everything, but it does feel good to be right. >> Well, help people. That's the thing. It's like, look, you believed in, you know, me. You believed in the message. It's not about me. It's about the message is fiat fails, saving real metal. That's the message. Many of us give that message. But now we're vindicated. we are vindicated because the message is correct and that's my point you know it's not about the mortgage report it's not about you know Kai Hoffman and brother you're doing a great job and you know sincerely mean that but you know we have a main purpose I think that others in the financial sector really don't I think a lot in the financial sector about being smart or looking good or picking a good stock or being you know Jim Kramer or whatever it might be but it's all based on personality rather than principle we're working on a principle that money fails if it's fiat. That's the principle that's behind our move. And I think that's far more powerful than, you know, who's the best looking or who's got the best stock picks from last year in my >> I just want to be Pelosi and Trump. That's all I care about. You know, >> as long as I'm trading better than these two, then I'm I'm doing fine. Although, I'm at a massive disadvantage. But, uh, what what what do I know? Morgan David, tremendously appreciate your time as always. Um, thanks so much for coming on so financially. We'll have to do this again right after the summer. Can't wait to do this here in early September. See where we're at, whether we weathered the storm here in the precious metals because I think it'll be an interesting summer to be honest. So, um or yeah, I think it'll be interesting to be honest. I'm not sure that the the the flatlining will continue. So, we'll see where it goes. >> I'd be happy to be wrong. It'd be great to come back in September. Thank you. >> Absolutely, David. Thank you so much. And to everybody else, you you heard David's words, of course. like you everybody has their own reasons for investing in the precious metals of course but uh if you want to be a happy investor make sure you put something aside outside of the system and uh I think it is heating up the SpaceX IPO for example is this just the top is this the top raising 75 billion Google just raised 80 billion although they're cash flowing 175 billion a year as well um that the capital needs are insane right now is the payoff even there or are we seeing the internet bubble 2.0 know in front of our eyes and we can just follow it on a daily basis on a minutely basis actually. So be be careful out there. Um you know cover yourselves and uh don't let emotions run your investments for you. That's the most important one. Take care and uh be safe.